In reference to the giant merit. Ox body gives 2-3 health levels for 10 xp (8 if favored) Giant gives 1 health level for 4 xp so its roughly as efficient in terms of cost, which will likely make it really good for non solars.

>>47464540
That magical time in my first ever game playing Exalted. Where a Gold Faction who was working with us sailed our ship onto land and fucked up a whole army of the underworld.

>>47465078
>1 health level for 4 xp
A Rating 4 merit costs 12 XP. What in the world are you talking about?

>>47464540
We met what must be a Siddie in my game recently, but we knew nothing about them - our only source of info was from the First Age, and massively outdated - and I wasn't able to confront her about who she was.

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This is my waifu

>>47464885

Buffing seems tricky in 3E. There's some stuff, but nothing that really competes with a competent combatant doing their own thing.

My best effort at making an uber-buffer was a Supernal Performance. Bear in mind, my group starts at E2, using the "Experienced" rules.

Melee (Dipping Swallow, War Lion, Guard-Breaking, Calm and Ready Focus)
Integrity (Enduring Mental Toughness, Spirit-Maintaining Manoeuvre, Spirit-Tempering Practice*, Mind-Cleansing, Clear Mind, Energy Restoring)
Lore (Essence-Lending, Will-Bolstering, Essence Font)
Performance (Masterful Performance, Stillness-Drawing, Trance of Fugue Vision, Unmatched Showmanship, Soul Voice, Mood Inducing, Perfect Harmony, Battle Anthem, Heart-Compelling, Soul-Stirring)

This character can:
* During combat, sing Soul-Voice-enhanced Battle Anthemn, giving everyone +2 init a turn
* Defend other their allies
* Gain initiative every time they successfully defend their ally
* Reflexively Distract an enemy, transferring initiative to them and adding +3 dice to their next attack (Guard-Breaking)
* Reflexively transfer motes and willpower amongst their allies (Essence-Lending, Will-Bolstering, Essence-Font)
* Restore their own motes (Energy Restoring) and Willpower (Spirit-Tempering Practice)
* Out of combat, restore the whole group's mote pools (Soul-Stirring)

It needs 21 charms, Essence 2, and the Glory Sphere hearthstone (for Spirit-Tempering Practice). It's makeable out of chargen (just) for Experienced Solars.

>>47466120
Medicine I think has a charm that lets you add -0 health levels to an ally.

Unrelated question: has there ever been any mechanical representation in Exalted for being a lucid dreamer?

>>47466230

Not that I can remember.

I think the only real difference it would make would be being slightly better at punching hungry Raksha or dream-spells out of your brain.

>>47466230

Ahh, yes, Feint of Imparted Nature, I think. Not possible to squeeze that into that build, especially as its optimal use involves grabbing the high-Essence medicine charm that reduces the cost of a Medicine charm to zero, so you can do it without those pesky high-mote commitments.

>Unrelated question: has there ever been any mechanical representation in Exalted for being a lucid dreamer?

What mechanical effects would being a lucid dreamer be able to confer anyway? Would it be anything but a bit of character background fluff? Could probably be built off of the Integrity meditation tree, if needed (or just fluff those charms that way).

>>47466339
I imagine it would only be useful for surprise dickpunching Rakasha or making obscene amounts of money with dreamstones. Could be a good background for a Lore supernal.

>>47466120

Forgot to mention - the one person who REALLY loves this build, is the Sorcerer with Burning Raptor. Given that you can essentially feed him unlimited willpower that can exceed the maximum of 10, his birdies will really burn.

>>47466783
>that can exceed the maximum of 10,

Nope. Even with Willpower that exceeds your current maximum, it can't go over 10.

>Willpower points gained in certain ways can raise the total number of points in your character’s Willpower pool above his rating, to a maximum of 10.

Still, he does appreciate it.

>>47464540

>play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

Someone needs to update the OP with the internet archive link to this.

>>47466821

>Will-Bolstering Method
With this Charm, the Lawgiver may bolster the mind and spirit of her charge, lifting him up with inner strength. Upon paying this Charm’s cost, the Exalt may transfer up to her Essence in temporary Willpower to another character. In addition, roll a single die and add any successes to the recipient’s Willpower. The Exalt must always transfer at least one point of Willpower from herself to her target when using this Charm. Will-Bolstering Method can explicitly increase a character past his maximum Willpower, and even past a rating of ten.

No, he, really, really appreciates it.

>>47466887

Another problem: The bullet point where you get Willpower back for successfully casting a spell does not have that clause.

All his Burning Raptors will whittle through his "excess" WP.

>>47466968

Yeah, one at a time. So if you buff him to 20 willpower, and he casts three raptors, they'll do init + 20, init + 19, init + 18, etc. I'd be more than happy with that.

Of course, if he takes the Ifrit pact, he can get the merit that would exempt Raptor from a willpower cost once per scene (or is it day) to make the willpower last longer.

Really, what you don't want him to do is Limit Break.

>>47466120

Empowering Shout
Cost: 3m; Mins: Presence 5, Essence 2
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Impassioned Discourse Technique
Even bound in chains, the Lawgiver can inspire a subject
to the heights of prowess. This Charm is a simple turn-
length action in which the Solar exhorts a character to
his true greatness. Such a character gains a +1 non-Charm
bonus to one Attribute and Ability until his next turn. The
Solar might call upon a strongman to lift rubble from a
trapped family, increasing his Strength and Athletics by
one each, or empower her guardian to strike swift and
true, increasing his Dexterity and Melee, and so on. The
Solar may also choose instead to raise her charge’s Defense
by one, but if this raises it past seven it counts as dice
added by a Charm. Empowering Shout does not stack.
At Essence 4+, the Exalt can use this Charm to grant +2
to one Attribute and Ability or +2 to a Defense.

Pretty decent at lower essence, gets crazy with that E4 bonus, and it applies to characters who are already at att5ability5.

And then there's

Favor-Conferring Prana
Cost: 5m, 1wp; Mins: Presence 5, Essence 4
Type: Simple
Keywords: None
Duration: Indefinite
Prerequisite Charms: Empowering Shout, Underling-
Promoting Touch
This Charm copies the effect of Empowering Shout, but
allows the Solar to empower an ally indefinitely. The sub-
ject’s Attribute and Ability ratings may not be increased
past five with this Charm, nor may he begin to learn
Charms or magic he doesn’t truly qualify for. Because this
is a different Charm than its prerequisite, it may be used
in conjunction with Empowering Shout.

At E4, you take a novice and give them a +8 to anything. It'd be more useful in combat if the base charm weren't Simple, but it's still effective.

anybody know of an algarel flamepiece?

where can I find stats for first circle demons?

if you put a pebble down the barrel of a firewand would you expect to get a musket? or a pipebomb?

why is sweet cordial worth so much?

>>47466230
Only one of the Sidereal Martial Arts. It was a fancy one that made you be stuck between dreaming and the real world.

>>47469627

Expect to get? Neither; probably a pressurized spray of flame, like putting your thumb over a hose.

>>47469627
If putting a pebble down the muzzle of a firewand got you a musket, people would use them as muskets. However the explosive force from firedust that the amount required to make cannons powered by it is so massive that they're only used like that in the richest parts of the south, where they build cannons sized like houses.

Stick a pebble down a firewand and you're probably going to do damage to your gun.

>>47469845
thought so, thanks

>>47465078
I just homebrewee Giant to count as an Ox-Body for the appropriate amount of stamina, and not count towards the ox-body cap. Works well enough I think.

>>47466230
ghost tea, sorta

So do you guys think it's highly recommended to take multiple levels of Ox-Body now? The massive difference between the normal 7 health levels and all you get with 5 Ox-Bodies is pretty staggering.

>>47469611
3e core antagonists section

If you're prepaed to jury-rig then any 2e book with demons - CoCD: Malfeas, Book of Sorcery - Demons, etc.

How does Steel Devil Style actually work? Looking through it, it just doesn't seem that powerful. Getting Double/Triple attacks in against serious combatants just seems so unlikely.

>>47469510
It's a normal flamepiece, but with algarel, a demonic firedust substitute. Even in 2E they were basically the same thing.

>>47470230
Buh? You can spend Charge to generate parries, and then turn those parries into AOE decisive attacks. On a full-Excellency high-attack penalties-punishing assault with your light artifact weapons, you can literally chain Charms until you run out of Essence and Willpower and turn just about anything into so much red mist boiling away in the light of your anima.

Double/Triple Attacks won't proc too often against Exalts, but they're fucking devastating so that's for the best.

>>47470230
Hell I don't even understand Double Attack Technique.
It's a simple charm that makes a "normal withering attack." Okay, got that.
On that attack, if you get X successes, you are treated as if you landed two attacks. That X at first reads like it'd be their defense. But it's really their defense with an onslaught penalty applied. In other words, X-1. But nothing before here said you launched two attacks. The charm just makes a normal withering attack with some potential bonus damage.
I think that's very poorly written. I only understand it now that I've written this post.

It seems you need your Dex + half Charge to be greater than X-1 to get any damage benefit from this charm.

>>47470230
So uh...
Steel Devil Strike doesn't say you don't reset to base initiative. So I assume you do reset to base Initiative after using it?

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>>47464540
I really, really want to play an Exalted game.

I want to play a powerful general and be challenged with what problems that it brings and presented with the spoils of my victories...

If only more people were up for a power romp and not content with being merely mercenaries at the whim of someone else...

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>>47464540
Question: Herolab works well to create characters in M&M 3e... are there any programs that help in the creation of Exalted 3e aswell?

in what way does the old dead whitewolf forum sync to its archive?

like how do I convert a link to find it's backup?

>>47470230
>>47470320
Attacks from Double and Triple Attack Technique incur onslaught penalties as normal, meaning that with the form up, at Dexterity 5, Essence 1, and full Charge, you're paying 2m to inflict a -2 or -3 onslaught penalty and if they have Parry 6, you need 11 successes on a withering attack to add 9 damage. For 2m. If they counter by pumping their defense with an Excellency they're probably safe, but anyone who can't or won't do that is going to get fucking massacred. Crashing opponents increases your Charge, too.

About that onslaught penalty - have a friend with Falling Hammer? If you want to piss off your ST, start with 5 in Brawl, MA (Single Point), and MA (Steel Devil), stay in Single Point Form, delay after your sword, have your sword use Triple Attack Technique and then Falling Hammer Strike dropkick as your own action. Round two you start hitting the full Triple Attacks and it's over. It's stupid expensive and requires two attuned slashing swords, and you miss out on a lot of Steel Devil benefits (it really wants that Form up) but there aren't a lot of things that have an answer to triple-stacking unending onslaught penalties that open them up for Triple Attack Technique.

You can always succeed on rushes always with Seconds Between Strife, which is useful even without a setup to take advantage. Basically you're getting a huge benefit to Athletics without having to invest in that tree.

Twin Blade Defense is, this is really important, a SECOND PARRY. You have to buy it out of your Charge, but you DON'T have to worry about the diepool limit of your first parry, meaning if you have the Charge you can block anything with a number incoming.

Steel Devil Stylists tend to have lower Initiative because they keep converting it into Charge, but they make up for this in spades with how fast Triple Attack Technique pays off if there is anything mook-like or if you can manage an ambush or capitalize on onslaught or whatever.

>>47470399
Steel Devil Strike wouldn't need to clarify that you lose the Initiative you just used if you also reset to base. Natural language says you don't reset.

Iron Lotus Unfurling is broken against single-weapon users, by the by. Charge up, parry them, disarm them, decisive them, rush them, if they go for their weapon they trigger another decisive. It's two Willpower and only your Charge in damage, but that can be an 8+ number, it ignores Hardness, and since you're not resetting they've probably taken a fair amount of lethal and are now about to die to your regular straight-up decisve.

>>47470455
>need 11 successes on a withering attack to add 9 damage. For 2m.
You say that like you'll expect to get 11 successes on an attack. If your pool is 18 including light artifacts, a speciality, and a normal stunt then that'll happen but not often. You'll need to spend notes buffing your attacks. Also you're fully min-maxed for it.
Further that's not adding 9 damage in this example, that's adding 4. Without the charm you would've had 5 damage from extra successes. So you add 4 damage net, not 9.

>>47470359

I don't think the Double attack consumes the extra successes. Math time.

Say you're attacking someone with Parry 5, with a Double Attack. You have 5 offhand charge. You swing, and get 12 sux on your attack roll. You exceed their Parry, onslaught gets applied. Then you check your extra successes - 7. That's more than their current defence (4), so Double Attack triggers. It adds Dex + (Charge / 2) damage.

So your total damage is weapon damage + extra succcesses (7) + dex + (charge/2) - Double Attack has gained you + 7 damage.

>>47470320
>Buh? You can spend Charge to generate parries, and then turn those parries into AOE decisive attacks.

Huh? Sonic Slash isn't triggered from Twin-Blade Defence, it's triggered from Seconds Between Strife, and can only happen if the opponent moves away from you. Whether you can activate it is entirely dependant on your opponent. Plus, hardness is going to screw over that AoE a lot of the time - it's mostly only good for clearing mooks.

>>47470320
>On a full-Excellency high-attack penalties-punishing assault with your light artifact weapons, you can literally chain Charms until you run out of Essence and Willpower

Maybe, but if their defence is low enough that you can expect to double it on your attack roll, they're screwed anyway. You don't need any special charms for killing them, they've already lost.

>>47470510
>Natural language says you don't reset.
No, that doesn't make sense. Even in other Steel Devil charms, when you don't reset, they explicitly state you don't. Every time you don't reset with any charm, they explicitly say you don't. That's why Hammer on Iron doesn't work like Iron Whirlwind.

>>47470538
>Likewise, the successes used landing the second attack are not calculated as extra successes when determining damage.

>>47470411
Yeah, that sounds dumb as fuck. Mercenaries every time. "Power romps" are boring because either you're irrelevant to my assassin who can just kill the enemy general or the ST stops me and I'm irrelevant because we have to have a Big Battle instead.

>>47470230
It's not super-likely, but Triple Attack Technique -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy -> Steel Devil Strike -> Empty Mind Strike -> Dervish Blade Frenzy to instantly annihilate someone (maybe if you ambush them for a defense of 0 for the first triple attack, and then it doesn't matter their onslaught is so fucking high) is fucking glorious.

>>47470538
>Sonic Slash isn't triggered from Twin-Blade Defence
Yes it is, with Iron Lotus Unfurling.

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>>47470570
>you want to have different fun from me, it's badwrongfun

Whatever you say fampai

>>47470554
Steel Devil Strike doesn't reset your Initiative, even though other Steel Devil Charms explicitly say so, because technical language is not a feature of Exalted 3E and 1:1 comparisons even within a Style are not reasonable or accurate ways to understand the system.

Steel Devil uses only SOME of your Initiative, and clarifies that that Initiative is lost. It would not need to clarify if you reset to base, because you would lose ALL your Initiative. Natural language thus forms an implied sentence of "you do not reset to base Initiative after making this special decisive attack."

I understand that that's completely horrifying to read for anyone coming from any system written sanely and legalistically, but Exalted is not just not legalistic it is EXPLICITLY based on "what seems like it should be right is right, probably." In this case, the simple fact that Steel Devil Strike expends some Initiative means it isn't also expending all Initiative.

>>47470359
>>47470567

For 5 + (half Charge) to be higher than that X-1 is really fucking easy.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/898478-in-defense-of-bloat-praise-for-the-developers?p=899416#post899416

who wants to help me kill Holden

when Dervish Blade Frenzy says
>"If she has, she is able to attack with a Quadruple Attack Technique, which uses Triple Attack’s damage bonus and adds (Essence or three, whichever is lower) automatic successes to the post soak damage roll."
does it imply that you have to get enough extra successes to do the quadruple attack, or is this just a fancy name for a quasi-technique like with Cross-Blade Catch?

The natural language is out of control in this MA. On top of hay the writing style is different, like someone else wrote this and it was never edited to be like the other martial arts.

>>47470603
What you're telling me is that I'm supposed to intuit what the authors intended and read sentences that are not there. Thus despite Hammer on Iron Texhnique not saying I don't reset, I can mentally insert the sentence that I don't reset, and argue with my ST about why he doesn't see that invisible sentence like I do.

That's complete horseshit but unfortunately I believe it, knowing the devs.

>>47470636
>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/898478-in-defense-of-bloat-praise-for-the-developers?p=899416#post899416

In other words, the devs are shit at technical writing, and instead of getting gud, just gave up.

>>47470643
It probably implies you need enough extra successes. On the bright side, their onslaught penalty is at least -4, so if they don't have Dipping Swallow/Shadow Over Water or similar (IE, any Quick NPC although to be fair a stiff breeze could kill half of them) you probably just need one or two if even.

>>47470636
>shouted not wrong but I need you to understand you're not wrong I'm just saying that when we did 2e okay listen you're not wrong but in 2e we got a lot of complaints now they weren't wrong and you're not wrong but we have less complaints now than before now hear me out you're not wrong but writing in flowery language is getting us fewer complaints and they're not wrong but it's fewer than the 2e complaints which weren't wrong so please understand you're not wrong but please believe me when I say it's better this way okay
You're not wrong just please okay you're not wrong YOU'RE NOT WRONG

>>47470683
Honestly, there are two issues at play:

Firstly, there is the matter of technical versus natural language. Technical language is much easier to skim, to grab a bit of info about how a Charm works in play. Natural language is, for some people at least, easier to read constantly; if you're reading through the thousand-ish Charms, it's a lot more bearable (for them) in natural language than technical. I would prefer the language be technical, so that I could quickly check on my Charms when I need to while playing, rather than adding the significant mental load of filtering out the fluff, translating the garbage to mechanics, etc. Holden, et al, decided not to do this.

Secondly, there is the matter of clarity in writing. For example, does Steel Devil Strike reset you to base? How do counterattacks work? And the other fifteen hundred different little ambiguities nobody is quite sure of and the devs won't/can't answer. It feels like every time I play Ex3, at some point somebody's like, "wait, how exactly does XYZ work?" This isn't necessarily a quality of technical versus natural language. It's a quality of the writers not properly playtesting the game to discover the places where ambiguities are causing Actual Play to slow down while people debate whether or not their Charms are as good as they think they are.

>>47470673
>What you're telling me is that I'm supposed to intuit what the authors intended and read sentences that are not there

Yes.

> Thus despite Hammer on Iron Texhnique not saying I don't reset, I can mentally insert the sentence that I don't reset, and argue with my ST about why he doesn't see that invisible sentence like I do.

No. Steel Devil Strike's special text makes an implication Hammer on Iron does not; I don't believe that someone smart enough to read at all is capable of mentally inserting the same implication in both Charms.

However, you can argue it, and if your ST is NOT smart enough to read, the Orichalcum Rule says you have won fair and square.

>That's complete horseshit

Yes.

>>47470747
>I don't believe that someone smart enough to read at all is capable of mentally inserting the same implication in both Charms.
>"Anyone who doesn't think what I think is STUPID!"
>>>/pol/

>>47470744
>Firstly, there is the matter of technical versus natural language. Technical language is much easier to skim, to grab a bit of info about how a Charm works in play. Natural language is, for some people at least, easier to read constantly; if you're reading through the thousand-ish Charms, it's a lot more bearable (for them) in natural language than technical. I would prefer the language be technical, so that I could quickly check on my Charms when I need to while playing, rather than adding the significant mental load of filtering out the fluff, translating the garbage to mechanics, etc. Holden, et al, decided not to do this.

Or they could have gone the D&D route (4e, at least) and had a nice bit of fluff in italics at the top of the charm, and then a short, clear, concise technical description of the mechanical effects after it.

People reading the book in one sitting can skim the fluff to get a general idea of the charm effect, and people looking to determine the actual mechanical effect can just read the mechanical effect, and not have it all tangled up with the thematics.

>>47470766
>Or they could have gone the D&D route (4e, at least) and had a nice bit of fluff in italics at the top of the charm, and then a short, clear, concise technical description of the mechanical effects after it.
Lots of the same kinds of fags whined about this too.

>>47470744
God yes, counter attacks. I can't believe they didn't explain how they work. They did it in 2e! But not here!

>>47470744
There's one issue at play: Exalted 3E is a lovable shitshow of a first draft accelerated into an actual finished product.

Natural language is not real. It's "Rich Thomas laid down the fucking hammer so we just stopped development and playtesting and cut out any editing runs." It wasn't a fucking design decision, it wasn't "let's write the game this way." They just ran out of time and gave up.

They have on staff an art director whose sole job is to direct the art, and their first pass had a bunch of stolen videogame copypasta and fucking Blender models. THEY NEVER REPLACED THE COVER ART. THE COVER IS WHAT THEY WERE CALLING A PLACEHOLDER FOR REAL ART. You think the system end of things went BETTER?

It's a testament to their creative skill that we got something as functional as we did, all personal loathing aside, but three people cannot an entire crunch-heavy intricate combat-focused cinematic system alone devise.

>>47470813
>Exalted 3E
>accelerated

Your language is not like our earth language.

Not that I disagree with your point.

>>47470813
>There's one issue at play: Exalted 3E is a lovable shitshow of a first draft accelerated into an actual finished product.
I don't know if I'd say first draft, but yeah, it definitely needed a good hard editing pass from somebody who wasn't under the table sucking Morke and Holden's dicks. Much of the stuff I've seen in terms of houserules are a) shockingly simple and b) so vital I couldn't imagine playing without them. It drives me insane. LCQA is the biggest offender here, but the loads of meaningless trash merits are there too.

>>47470876
I don't have playing experience with 3e. Please tell me what these houserules you're talking about are, and what LCQA is.

>>47470856
Three people on a project with this level of mechanical intensity, working in essentially overtime because they all had day jobs? Their original projections were fucking retarded. They needed another year at least with full-community open playtesting, another two because they are categorically against open playtesting despite it being literally God's personalized expectation-free gift to indie developers, which they are now.

It takes TIME. The bones of a system, sure, if you have good ideas you can get that quick enough even by your lonesome, but hammering out every vein and capillary is a grind and it isn't nearly as fun. Other RPGs solve this issue by having large teams or by doing rules-light systems. That's how you overcome the time gap. Exalted took neither approach. Exalted, perhaps in theme, was always attempting the impossible, so of course it fell short. Natural language is not the sun they reached for. It's Icarus' burn scars.

>>47470900

I assume LCQA = Linear Creation, Quadratic Advancement. Character creation (using bonus points) is a linear system; advancement (using xp) is exponential. It means that certain character builds (highly min-maxed) are mathematically encouraged by the system.

>>47470900
Removing the Martial Arts merit is a common one.
Using BP for advancement to get around LCQA another
Inserting in an actual Projects system instead of the pages of fluff
If more people actually played naval combat, they'd houserule that too, because the core rules are dogshit.

>>47470534
You're ignoring an Excellency added in for fun.

>>47470900
LCQA = Linear Chargen, Quadratic Advancement.

People call it BP/XP, but the problem's actually a bit broader (broader than LCQA, too). You can spend the same amount of points and get less of the same thing, which is a product both of BP/XP and your static starting pools (15 merit points, 28 ability points, etc). So we use flat BP houserules, which are a bit broader than just "you get 4 BP instead of however much XP;" they also reprice things a little so that there's no issues like that (e.g. E1 charms cost 4 BP even if they're not caste/favored, because E1 charms are all fungible out of your starting pool of Charms).

The other big one is merits. Most of the merits are just hot trash. They're not worth the points. We just basically say, "yeah, just pick up story merits (and languages, and mutations, and the conception one), the stupid D&D feat merits don't count, if you have leftover merit points and nothing you want to spend them on, maybe you could throw them at your GM later in the game when you get an interesting idea."

>>47467025
>Yeah, one at a time. So if you buff him to 20 willpower, and he casts three raptors, they'll do init + 20, init + 19, init + 18, etc. I'd be more than happy with that.
I don't think you understand.

Every time you successfully cast a spell, you regain 1wp. Flight of the Brilliant Raptor is normally willpower NEUTRAL. What you're doing, when buffing him up like that, is making it suddenly become a loss, by giving him a resource that gets spent without the normal recovery.

You massively, massively wasting your time giving him willpower like that.

>>47470534
> You'll need to spend notes

Well, yeah. 21 dice and TAT is neutral, though, so.

Or hit someone with less than Parry 6.

>>47470763
Thats not a /pol/ exclusive sentiment

>>47469627
>if you put a pebble down the barrel of a firewand would you expect to get a musket? or a pipebomb?
Neither, probably. All indications are that flamedust explodes with much less concussive force/expending gas than gunpowder, but significantly more heat. That's why it's so rarely used to launch projectiles, and never in man-portable form. Cannons that shoot via pressurized steam are more common than flame dust-driven projectiles, for example.

So, as a general rule, assume that flame weapons are powerful not because they do anything concussive like a traditional explosive, but because they impart huge amounts of instantaneous heat, like a gun that shoots a gout of superheated plasma or something.

The most likely thing that will happen is the pebble will stop the heat from escaping fast enough, warping the barrel and probably slagging the pebble too.

>>47470984
no, because init + 20 damage, init + 19 damage...are you retarded? who fucking cares he goes back to WP 10 in ten attacks?

>>47469980
>So do you guys think it's highly recommended to take multiple levels of Ox-Body now?
It's definitely worth it to take at least 1. The problem is that Ox-Bodies have a diminishing utility.

With your first Ox-Body, you're going from 7 to 10 - that's a little less than a 50% increase.

With your second, you're going from 10 to 13, which is only a 30% increase.

The percent just keeps going down from there. Going from 4 to 5 takes you from 19 to 22, which is really not a significant increase at all.

So, I'd recommend one Ox-Body for everyone, but beyond that? It gets increasingly niche and unnecessary.

>>47470984

Yeah. It's trading it being Willpower neutral, in exchange for massively ramping up its damage. And with the stupidly-good willpower regen charms in Integrity (plus the ability for Will-Bolstering to occasionally pull some out of thin air) keeping your buddy topped off after he shoots a couple of Raptors off isn't particularly arduous.

If your buddy has the Suzerein of Endless Flame merit, and chucks off three Raptors in battle (which is quite a lot), you'd be able to top him up again no troubles - he'd be down 2wp, and you gain +1 per scene, +1/day from sleeping, and another +1/day for meditating (which you can do instantly).

>>47471065
You're measuring the increase in total number of health levels, but not for how you can get better health levels of -0 or -1 with more purchases, assuming you have high enough Stamina.

>>47470966
>>47470938
I did think those merits like Absolute Direction felt out of place for Exalted. Thanks.

>>47471089
I don't really see those as a meaningful concern. Or, rather, I count that under the 'niche' category. The point of extra health levels isn't to take easier penalties while wounded, it's to not-die to the first good decisive that slaps you while you're Crashed.

>>47471065
you must be the same genius as >>47470984


there is no diminishing return! what the fuck! you get three more health levels. every health level means enemies must build more initiative, which means more time, which is a really fucking precious commodity given how withering attacks work - the moment when your allies drop and you're facing five guys and gals is the moment you enter The Last Crash. health levels aren't even just flat additive, they're EXPONENTIALLY more valuable. the guy with 13 HL is way better off than the guy with 10 HL, and that separation is WIDER than the one between 7 and 10.

total Initiative is a tug of war, but your health levels are the shot clock that determines how long you get to pull for your side. once someone's time is up and the teams go uneven, it's usually fucked for whoever's shorthanded.

>Such a character gains a +1 non-Charm bonus to one Attribute and Ability until his next turn.
Empowering Shout provides a non-charm bonus, not non-charm bonus dice. Does that mean that it increases your dice cap for excellencies and other adders?

>>47471183
Yes.

>>47471183>>47471239

Debatable. My ST ruled no, but it might work with yours

>>47471150
>there is no diminishing return!
There absolutely is, in no small part because every Ox-Body purchase has to be measured against the purchase of another combat charm or evocations, insofar as efficacy is concerned. A nearly 50% increase to your health levels is great - that's basically always worth a purchase, and helps anyone out significantly. 30% is going to be worth it to a lot of people too.

But 20%? 15%? You start having to measure those purchases against getting another dodge charm, another soak charm, another attack charm. They start providing diminishing utility - less of an effect on your survivability - compared to making it harder to build up that Initiative in the first place, or getting to pull harder for your side while you're standing, to use the tug of war analogy.

Ox-Body Technique is fucking rad, especially the first and second purchase, but you won't see me ever buying the fourth or fifth level of it except in really niche builds which actually rely on specifically taking damage or spending health for some reason.

It's a diminishing return because returns on charm purchases aren't absolute, they're measured against what you could have bought instead.

>>47471038
THANKS :)

>>47471038
...sorry for capslock, didn't notice it was on

>>47471065
Why are you measuring it in terms of percent increase of total health levels? Adding extra health levels requires that much more initiative be used to kill you whether you have 7 or 20

On the subject of BP/XP - does anything happen if you get rid of Solar XP as a thing? I mean, are there charms that key off it?

>>47471183
No.

>>47471466
People spend fewer points on things that aren't charms.

>>47471466
>does anything happen if you get rid of Solar XP as a thing?
People spend 100% of their XP on Solar Charms instead.

>I mean, are there charms that key off it?
You can use it to pay the activation costs of charms with an XP cost, instead of real XP.

>>47471239
>Yes
>>47471467
>No
Which is it?

>>47471503
ask your ST. I'd go with no, though.

>>47471183
Why wouldn't it increase cap? The charms affect is to increase an attribute and ability, the charm itself doesn't add dice

>>47471503
Natural language strikes again.

what is the point of a thaumaturgical dance to "make people mad at rocks" and can my player learn this in game?

if so do i need to somehow convince stanewald, the ravine of whispers, or shlin to teach it?

>>47471496
>People spend 100% of their XP on Solar Charms instead.
This is definitely not true. They don't spend 50/50 but most of my Circle is about 2/3rds Charms, in terms of BP expenditures. (Probably less if you count out spells/MA charms)

Admittedly, that's BP, not XP, which makes ability purchases way cheaper, comparatively.

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/tg/ what are the rules for Martial Arts and off-hand weapons?
If I'm holding the style's weapon in my offhand, lets say a sword for Shining Point, can I still activate and transition into that style?
If I'm holding the the sword in my dominant hand, but a different weapon in my left hand, can I stay in Shining Point and strike with the sword on its own turn and my off hand weapon on mine?
How about the reverse? Can I keep the sword in my offhand, "drawing" it for a fast strike on it's "turn", while using my primary weapon while taking other purposes?

>>47472104
It doesn't matter what weapon you're holding. You just can't use non-form weapons with that style's skill or attack/parry charms.

>>47472104

Yes to all.

The only reason you wouldn't be able to use a Martial Art while wielding another, different weapon in the other hand is if the weapon specificially requires or forbids dual-wielding, such as Steel Devil Style.

>>47472104

>If I'm holding the style's weapon in my offhand, lets say a sword for Shining Point, can I still activate and transition into that style?

Yes, but if you're not ambidexterous, you take -1 to all attcks with that weapon while it's in your off hand.

>If I'm holding the the sword in my dominant hand, but a different weapon in my left hand, can I stay in Shining Point and strike with the sword on its own turn and my off hand weapon on mine?

Yes.

>How about the reverse? Can I keep the sword in my offhand, "drawing" it for a fast strike on it's "turn", while using my primary weapon while taking other purposes?

Yes.

>>47472104
Ask your ST.

>>47472254
Nice meme

>>47472254
>>47472317
It really is a meme and he really is forcing it.

cirrus skiff vs stormwind rider

>>47472317
It's not a meme. It's what you should do. The rules are constantly ambiguous about how shit works and your ST may have different intuitions from 4chan. So ask them.

Or the devs, I guess. If you think you'll get a response.

>>47472335
Stormwind Rider. The only thing Cirrus Skiff is good for comparatively is super high-altitude stuff using it while sleeping or otherwise busy.

>>47472351
>The rules are constantly ambiguous about how shit works
No, the rules are pretty explicit in this case, for once. The 'form weapon' limitation is just a limitation on which weapons charms can apply their effects towards.

>>47472377
Okay. If I'm in Single Point, with my off-hand weapon being an axe or some shit, and I crash the guy who crashed my sword with said axe, does my sword roll JB?

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>>47472215
>>47472214
>>47472203
>I can keep a sword in my offhand while using Crane charms to play a protective tank role and parrying with my war fan in my dominant hand.
>I can use the Sword to effectively have a second attack turn, while I use my turn to Defend Others or movement actions
>If I parry to defend someone, I can then combot that into the Shining Point charms for even more DPS
>I can use Shining Point into the Void form to turn my sword into the functional equivalent of Substitute
>>If I get hit and take initiative damage, I can instead offset it onto the sword, keeping me safe from harm even longer
>This also works while dodge tanking with Dreaming Pearl Courtesan and Flow Like Blood, ensuring my initiative stays well above anyone I'm facing, letting me ignore all onslaught penalties

holy shit this is getting CHURAZEE

>>47472439
>Shining Point into the Void
It's Single Point Shining into the Void, motherfucker.

>>47472422

Yes.

The Charm doesn't say you have to crash him with a Shining Point attack.

You don't have to crash him with an attack at all; forcing him to Full Defense himself into a crash would also qualify.

>>47472483
My Form is a Charm; MA Charms only apply to their style weapons; my axe isn't a style weapon; QED.

>>47472439
Go back to your shop, brother, we're discussing Shining Point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNY0aNYBWXA

>>47472422
>>47472499
>Whenever a Martial Arts Charm refers to enhancing or creating an “attack,” it always means an attack made with one of that style’s weapons. Similarly, Martial Arts Charms that enhance a character’s Parry only apply when they block with a style weapon.
That is the entire rule. It's pretty goddamn explicit. There's no grey area or fuzzy line - either something falls into one of the above two categories, or it doesn't.

>>47472557
wtf. so I can just grab 2 dots of Snake Style and get the Evasion booster for my Single Point/Dodge specialist? This fucking game.

>>47472536
>>47472439
>You can build a Solar with MA in Single Point Shining Into the Void (Dark Slayer/Swordmaster), Dreaming Pearl Courtesan (Trickster), Righteous Devil (Gunslinger), and Crane (Royal Guard)
>Pick up other styles like Tiger (Beowulf) and weapons (Firewand for Coyote-A)
>Pour charms into Athletics, Dodge, and Martial Arts
>Grab Quickdraw and Ambidextrious as merits to offset the penalties

I want to play this.
I want to be the Dante from the Devil May Cry series (tm).
I want to play CHURAZEE: The Character

any martial arts worth learning for formation fighting? or just go with melee?

>>47472648
Yes? What's your point?

>>47472684
Were you not paying attention to the answers you got yesterday?

>>47472684
Not in 3e yet. Just homebrew it.

Also, Melee is worthless for formation fighting too. Melee (and White Reaper) is the style to solo formations, not be part of them.

>>47472707
?
I didn't ask anything yesterday...

so I should google previous threads then, I'll go do that

>>47472687
That the game is written in such a way that cases like these do not naturally occur to one to seek out?

I looked through Style Weapons of the other forms, saw nobody had slashing sword, and called it there. But apparently there's a real nice Dodge charm in there that I didn't notice because of that. Fuck, Ebon Shadow has a slick minimum buy-in Charm too if you do Stealth.

>>47472720
If it was a different person, then I apologise. The gist of it was that Melee is your best bet. You'll want Defend Other and Counter-attack charms.

>>47472733
Most martial arts specifically synergize strongly with some other Ability. Ebon Shadow is for people who use Stealth, Snake is for anyone who uses Dodge, Black Claw is for Presence, Nightingale is for Performance, and so forth. They have minimal, if any, synergy with Melee, Brawl, Thrown, or Archery, but outside of those they tend more often than not to have some kind of strong synergy.

So yeah, you should be looking at MAs for utilities, especially if you use other Abilities. You haven't been paying attention very well if that comes as any surprise to you.

>>47472862
>So yeah, you should be looking at MAs for utilities, especially if you use other Abilities.
I did look at MAs. I saw none of them were compatible with Single Point's form weapons and assumed that meant they wouldn't be useful for a Single Point specialist.

I don't like having to read through the 1,000 charms in the corebook to figure out which ones I need to buy, so I generally skip entirely when a charmset seems irrelevant to my concept.

Just how powerful is being able to launch decisives while crashed, and what charms can I look at for ideas?

>>47473042
I don't think you actually like exalted, mate.

>>47473044
It's literally worthless, since your Decisive attacks deal damage based on your current Initiative. You can look for such charms nowhere, because they don't exist abs would be nonsense if they did.

>>47473059
I like playing it. I don't like spending hours pouring over a massive number of Charms to figure out which ones to buy.

>>47473076
I think he's suggesting a Charm which, in addition to letting you launch a decisive out of crash, gave you bonus decisive dice, like Shining Starfall Execution or Increasing Strength Exercise.

Which would be retarded and probably completely wreck the game's system, so don't do it.

>>47473076
>>47473124
Duly noted

>>47473044

There are some attacks that can deal decisive damage without interacting with the user's initiative. The butterfly spell. That one melee attack that steals initiative and immediately rolls it into damage without you ever getting it. Anything that creates environmental damage or poison damage.

Those are the only ones I can think of, though.

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I've heavily revised this artifact since I last posted it; any comments would be appreciated. I hope it's actually balanced now
Fuujin from World Trigger: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11k6Z_iS9qv2bXxYavlfOLDKWVz1TyJnnSfl9C3xg3zY/edit?usp=sharing

Okay so I've gotten me a sudden interest in Exalted and I'm halfway considering getting the book from Drive Thru RPG, call me old fashioned but I like having the dead tree version of at least core rules when it comes to RPGs.
The book looks beautiful from what I've seen of it, but still, around $70 is a lot when I see the 2nd Editon on Amazon for about $8 (or about $4 for 1st) but I've heard that the older editons tended to be well... bad.

So I ask of you good people of /exg/ in your various opinions do you think that's true? and prehaps more importantly do you think 3e "fixed" that?

>>47475707
I got the chepo version and everything looks fine to me

>>47475707
3e is vastly superior to 2e. Also the book is fucking massive, so that's one reason it's more expensive.

>>47475707
Yes. Third edition is much better. Even the autists on SV, who still play mutilated versions of 2e, agree that 3e is better; they just don't want to put in the effort to learn a new edition.

If you don't already know 2e, and don't have a specific 2e game to play in, there is zero reason to learn 2e rather than 3e.

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>>47475707
"Well... bad" is a decent short description of Second Edition Exalted, but a longer one might go something like "Uncoordinated, varying quality, varying fluff, varying implications, left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing, occasional awesome, occasional gonzo (THE SUN IS A SENTIENT BATTLESTATION THAT KNOWS MARTIAL ARTS - no, not the Unconquered Sun incarna, I mean his *ride*, the bright-thing-in-the-sky Sun), and occasional stupidity, pic related.

Third edition is much better in terms of having less stupidity splattered across the system. Unfortunately, it also feels like they banhammered and NO FUN ALLOWED a lot as side effects, and at the moment there's the issue of support shortage. Once I'm done with my current trial game of 3e, I am probably going to ignore Exalted for a year or two and check back on it later.

>>47475768
>>47475771
>>47475785

thanks folks

>>47475707
3rd Edition only has the main playable splat out so far. But still people would rather homebrew and wait for a fan conversion of those splats to 3rd than play in a 2nd edition game with all those splats ready.

>>47475830
>But still people would rather homebrew and wait for a fan conversion of those splats to 3rd than play in a 2nd edition game with all those splats ready.
no i wouldnt. that's why im playing 2.5 right now, faggot.

>>47475835
Exalted 2.5, the homophobes game of choice.

>>47475920
That's unfair to homophobes, many of whom I imagine are sensible enough to switch to 3e.

It's kind of hilarious how the survey they're trying to do on the onyx path forums keeps getting more and more complicated gender votes and yet peolpe are still offended by it. Soon they'll add "attack helicopter" too.

>>47475920
>>47475950
Someone did a faggotcount of 2e once. It turned out that of named 2e Exalts, about 1/3 were straight, 1/3 queer and 1/3 no sexuality mentioned.

>>47475920
there are two gay players in our group. now what?

>>47475988
Exalted takes place in a setting where people don't conceptualize sexuality as taking place in a hetero/bi/homo/ace construct, and I really don't like the degree to which 2e imposed that construct on a setting where it didn't fit.

>>47475835
Are you all people, dyke?

>>47472677
1) This is autistic.
2) Thankfully, you can never have your dream: it's far too expensive and you only have two hands and two of those styles don't allow you to use unarmed strikes, so you'll be burning yourself out with draw/ready weapon actions while your friend who writes his own fucking characters instead of copypasting cartoons and videogames consistently outperforms your godawful mishmash of garbage. At best you can afford two of those things and no Athletics or Dodge. More reasonably you'll need to settle for one, and having any creativity.

"If you get the chance, you should kill yourself."
-Detective Gadget (THE PINK FALCON)

>>47476047
no but i am people. he didnt say all people, he said people. lrn2read

>>47476100
Well, yes. The claim that "people would rather homebrew and wait for a fan conversion of those splats to 3rd than play in a 2nd edition game with all those splats ready" is something that could be disproved by *all* people playing 2.5 instead. Just *people* playing 2.5 is kinda irrelevant for that claim.

Someone on the Onyx Path forums is doing an unofficial fan survey.

surveymonkey com/r/8Q9R7TG

Exciting, if you like answering questions about your preferences (vain little me loves to).

>>47476212
remember to write-in attack helicopter as gender

>>47476212
I hate liberals.

So, were there any good fluff additions that 2e brought? I can only remember shit that was bad like the bloated 12-year old mutant fuckbeast that was in Infernals that should probably be submitted as evidence to a court so that its writer may be put on a sex offender's registry, the Silver Prince's Soulsteel Armada that made him the only thing you'll ever fight in any Western game, The Ebon Dragon being changed from a pessimist who loves the doomed to Satan But A Chinese Dragon, and some other shit

>>47473079
Exalted is not your game. This has always been essential to having an effective character, and you'll need to reread and expand your knowledge of both core and every book that comes out (they'll have Martial Arts, spells, sample artifacts...) to stay that way.

>>47476314
>This has always been essential to having an effective character
There were definitely fewer than one thousand Charms in the 2e core, don't fuck with me.

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So, I haven't run an Exalted game since First edition, but I'm thinking of giving it a try. I'm going to wrangle some of my old friends into playing it online. Before I do though, I had a few questions.

The new system seems pretty complicated, with lots to keep track of once charms get introduced. How much of a slowdown does this cause, especially in online games (which are already pretty slow to begin with in my experience).

Also, anyone got some ideas or where or what might make a good one or two shot session?It'll be for 2-4 people, but I'm having trouble coming up with anything,

>>47476244
>>47476249
Thank goodness I wasn't the only one with that brainwave.

>>47476373
>The new system seems pretty complicated, with lots to keep track of once charms get introduced. How much of a slowdown does this cause, especially in online games (which are already pretty slow to begin with in my experience).

Most of the slowdown in my groups came from the Exalted veterans who had to consciously un-learn the habits they still had from 2e, honestly. The newbies picked things up quick.

>>47476212
>SufficientVelocity
>Freedom Stone
>SpaceBattles
I've never heard of these places but apparently they're the place to go to find Exalted players.

>>47476433
They're NOT the places to go, that is. I can into graphs

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Speaking of fluff, I always hear that 1e's fluff had more amazing high points and godawful low points than 2e did, and people will always post the best of 1e fluff to give examples.

But what about the worst of 1e fluff? What are some of the lowest points in 1e's lore line?

>>47476373
When you begin to interact with a new system (doing combat, players trying to figure out the social system, etc), there will be a lot of slowdown.

Once you actually get it, and players learn their relevant charmsets, there's not very much slowdown, except for adjudicating weird interactions (e.g. if I Iron Whirlwind Attack somebody with Searing Quicksilver Flight, can I get init crashed from missing enough?).

I can't really help that much, except to suggest doing a few whiteroom combats before the game so that players can get a sense of how their Charms actually work.

>>47476462
Triremes.

>>47476244
There's not much point: it seems such responses will get grouped into "Option not listed" and taken as just a special snowflake. I'm looking at the survey results right now and the sex section reads:
>Male 78.41% 138
>Female 6.82% 12
>Trans Male 0.00% 0
>Trans Female 2.27% 4
>Non-Binary 5.11% 9
>I prefer not to disclose 3.98% 7
>Option not listed 3.41% 6
I don't see the specific writeins listed.

>>47476212
This survey is full of wtf.
>On a scale from 1 (most favorite) to 6 (least favorite), please rank each Direction of Creation in order of preference.
How do I even estimate this? Also scavenger lands is now a direction, lol.

>>47476511
>Triremes.
What about them?

>>47476561
They're a 1e thing that's real dumb. Triremes are really awful vessels for the ocean, but 1e's Creation was originally Mediterranean sized and only got blown up to Earth sized at the very end, so triremes wound up staying.

Through to third edition.

>>47476615
Ha.
>Don't mind me, just rowing across the Atlantic...
To be fair, it's a pretty Solar thing to do.

>>47476553
There's nothing wrong with that survey question. You just rank your favorites. The South is #1 for me, I love the rich desert cities and fire theme.

>>47476654
They're the mainstay of the Realm, though.

>>47476615
>1e's Creation was originally Mediterranean sized and only got blown up to Earth sized at the very end

Really? Okay, that explains SO MUCH. I have only played since 2e, and I have often looked at the map and wondered what's with these large swathes of map grouped under a single heading, the far-flung gigantic realms, the distant cities described as having extensive relations, and so on. If they're legacies from a smaller Creation, suddenly they make a lot more sense.

>>47476553
I'm annoyed the Southeast isn't an option. Dreaming Sea is great.

Also how the fuck is the West so close to the Blessed Isle in being the worst direction? At least in the West there's shit to do for anyone that isn't a Sidereal or Dragon-blood.

>>47476682
Imagine a Solar Campaign on the Blessed Isle. 100% Night Castes.

>>47476682
I've always wanted a Solar campaign in the Blessed Isle. It's the hard mode of Exalted.

I didn't realize offhand penalties were still a thing in 3e. What do you do then when you dual wield identical weapons? Are you always rolling at -1 to hit?
And besides, they're such a minor thing. Why bother tracking them? I can do all kinds of flips and shit with stunts, why would it matter if I use my left or right hand.

>>47476741
>I didn't realize offhand penalties were still a thing in 3e.
They aren't. They're only mentioned in merits and Charms that obviate them. Pretend they aren't there.

>>47476741
>I didn't realize offhand penalties were still a thing in 3e. What do you do then when you dual wield identical weapons? Are you always rolling at -1 to hit?
No, because there's no difference between attacking with your on-hand or attacking with your off-hand, so you're assumed to just always swing with your better hand.

>And besides, they're such a minor thing. Why bother tracking them? I can do all kinds of flips and shit with stunts, why would it matter if I use my left or right hand.
Because stupid legacy things.

The closest I've seen to "off-hand" mechanics that actually work for Exalted is to instead make it a generic "# of weapons readied" measure, so a character can walk around with 4 weapons at the ready (by whatever excuse he wants to make; quickdraws, mouth-wielding, whatever) but he takes a -3 to all attacks (mitigated by a Battle Hydra merit).

>>47476734
I've seen both shows. I don't get it.

>>47476212
>/tg/ is actually listed
I'm surprised people acknowledge us

>>47476819
Korra is a cunt

Aang spent the entire first season treating firebenders like cunts

lol P O T T E R Y

>>47470455
>If you want to piss off your ST, start with 5 in Brawl, MA (Single Point), and MA (Steel Devil), stay in Single Point Form, delay after your sword, have your sword use Triple Attack Technique and then Falling Hammer Strike dropkick as your own action.

As ST I'd declare your sword a different character, as it has a different initiative track. So only your kick would retain onslaught. It'd still help with hitting those double an triple strikes as the fight went on though.

>>47476373
Don't have them read through the whole book. Just have them read through main combat section, social influence, and any other part their character is likely to engage with. There's really no need to memorize every system

>>47476819
Zhao's crowning achievement was killing the spirit of the moon, which took the form of a koi fish in a pond.

It didn't end well for him.

>>47476763
Thank goodness.

>>47470813
>>47470934

The fact that Magic: The Gathering exists is the reason I can't really buy into the devs arguments that it was a tradeoff between being rigorous and being fun to read. The MtG lead designer jokes sometimes that their rules manager is his archnemesis, but it works, and it works damn well. Magic is proof that you can have a game that is BOTH mechanically rigorous, and incredibly flavorful.

I think if the Ex3 team had taken a page from MtG R&D and had a Rules Manager, someone whose entire job is to make sure shit works within the framework of the rules, this game could have been truly remarkable.

>>47477224
Sorry, but the description for Single Point Form explicitly says that the sword is not a different character.
>This does not represent the sword gaining intelligence or agency of its own, but rather, the superior speed of the stylist allowing her to strike twice during each round.

>>47478240
magic is a fucking card game

>>47478341
Its treated as a separate combatant for the purposes of initiative and initiative break. It basically is mechanically, that is just saying it doesn't have a mind of its own fluff-wise.

>>47465579
Hello.

>>47478356
So is Exalted 3e. Did I just blow your mind?

>>47478341
Hmmm interesting. That's still an interesting interaction between the two abilities. Though I feel like it violates the spirit of the whole 'Martial Arts cannot be combined with any Combat Abilities such as Brawl, Melee, Thrown, or Archery.' But meh, not my table.

>>47478380
you're comparing playing yu-gi-oh with dungeons and dragons

>>47475976

What survey?

>>47476311
Lunars were entirely less shit than in 1e, and I personally loved warstriders as a tank analogue. 2e wasn't all bad - 1e had some tremendous low points. It's just that, for the most part, it also didn't have the high points. So, it tended to be better than 1e where 1e was bad, but worse than 1e where 1e was good.

>>47478417
>>47478356
Yeah, and? They are comparable.

>>47478417

And your Charms are your cards.

Can Clash and Defend Other ever synergise?

Like, if I'm defending someone with War Lion, and an enemy attacks, and my parry is about to be applied, can I use Fervent Blow to clash that attack?

>>47479345
Yes.

>>47477224
I dont even think the sword being a different character would matter. Everyone who attacks the defender benefits from the lower defence value they have due to Onslaught, and Falling Hammer Strike doesnt specify that the penalty is only retained against the brawler, just that their onslaught penalty doesnt reset period.

>>47479937
It does matter because any onslaught added by the sword would NOT stay after their DV 'refreshed.' Otherwise yeah, everyone still benefits regardless. It would just prevent stacking a triple onslaught penalty every turn.

>Falling Hammer Strike does not maintain onslaught penalties from other characters’ attacks, nor does it supplement grapple attacks.

>>47479978
Aww fair enough, I missed that part of FHS.

Still, with the Brawler maintaining his own onslaught, he's making it constantly easier for his fellows to further reduce it, even if theirs only lasts for the round.

>>47479978

Falling Hammer Strike is just another in the long list of poorly-written charms. It should have just been "onslaught inflicted by attacks supplemented by this charm do not reset on the target's next turn".

>>47480113
I 100% agree. Honestly charms like this are why I get excited about combos then someone informs me that I missed a keyword.

Can you build a manse without a demesne?

>>47480239

A capital-m manse? No.

A magical building that accomplishes pretty much everything about a manse except the whole "captures leyline energies to power itself and produce a hearthstone"? Sure, sounds like a good artifact.

>>47480260
If a demesne alters the mortals living in it after some time, how would a cohesive town form around a masne? Assuming these changes are nocive.

>>47480295
I just want a magical f-shack with some nice mood lighting. You know, some fucking ambiance.

>>47480295

1) Well for one, people don't tend to stay IN the place that's mutating them, they live around it so the exposure isn't constant.

2) Demesnes tend to mutate along a certain line of logic, like how the wyld doesn't just turn you into a completely gobblefucked chaos spawn without extreme exposure. The community living around a demesne isn't going to be a clusterfuck of whatevers, it'll be The Fish-People of Ah-Tzu, or a race of desert people with glowing blue eyes.

>>47473076
They exist, nerd. There's charms in brawl that I know for sure that let you bank initiative to launch decisive while crashed, don't remember if there's any in any other ability.

Why are Sail charms SO fucking SEXY?

>>47480645

Because big, well-oiled captains redeeming wayward twinky demons and ghosts.

>>47480683
Seriously. I read Salty Dog Method and had to go rub one out. Ship-Claiming Method? Hnnngh.

So I'm seeing more talk about charm language here and on the forums. I'm a bit confused by it all since I understood just about every charm on my first read through. How many charms are causing people confusion? The counter attack ones I kinda get but like besides that what are the 'problem charms'?

>>47480797

Well, one example I saw just today on the official forums is whether or not Gambits ARE a Decisive attack, or they're LIKE a Decisive attack. Both ways of phrasing it are used in the book, but what about Charm interactions?

I mean, the obvious interactions aren't a problem. I think most people are on board with something like Excellent Strike helping you make the attack roll of your gambit, but what if I want to have the Immaculate of Fire from the antagonists section augment his disarm with Fiery Blade Attack?

How about using Iron Whirlwind Attack to make a bunch of disarms at once?

>>47476827
>I'm surprised people acknowledge us
We're widely known in most Exalted communities as the source of the leaked playtests.

>>47480797
>>47481088

So, it's less that people are confused as to what charms do (though, there is a bit of that with a small subset of charms), it's that the interactions aren't specified enough for people who want mechanical rigor. Another example. How exactly do Accuracy Without Distance and Dust and Ash Sleight work with Seven Omens Shot? SOS has one confusingly worded sentence that kind of makes the whole thing murky.

>>47480797
>I'm a bit confused by it all since I understood just about every charm on my first read through.
I generally do not feel /actively confused/ by reading through a Charm. But when I then say, "okay, reword what this Charm does to put it on your sheet in short form," it takes a substantial amount of time to do, and involves reading and rereading the Charm.

There's also Charms that seem straightforward, but aren't - for example, Stalking Wolf Attitude. When do I proc the Stealth rolls I desperately need to get a use out of the Charm? I assumed I just always rolled Stealth once per round, period, except that's not how Stealth normally works, and nothing in Stalking Wolf Attitude says to change it.

>>47475976
>survey
I am a brobot of autocthon. I resent your mockery of my mechanical vibrating bits

>>47476433
>>47476450
Eh, keep in mind that this poll might not be posted to those places that it is in others. I haven't seen it posted at all yet on Something Awful, for example. It's like a Fox News poll - when you have a skewed sample set, you can get an artificial illusion of consensus.

>>47481234
>I assumed I just always rolled Stealth once per round, period, except that's not how Stealth normally works, and nothing in Stalking Wolf Attitude says to change it.

You need to roll stealth every time you move.

p203-204
> A character in stealth cannot take Rush actions. If he wants to move normally in combat while maintaining concealment, he must have some adequate place to hide in the spot he’s moving to, and must make another reflexive (Dexterity + Stealth) roll when he moves, to keep from being spotted while moving. If this movement crosses wide-open terrain with no appreciable cover, the Stealth roll’s penalty climbs from the usual -3 (for attempting stealth while already in combat) to -5.

>>47476615
>Triremes are really awful vessels for the ocean
That's the point, actually. That's why the Realm only recently reopened contact to the West, for example, and one of many reasons why the Realm is perceived as being unassailable. Creation's sailing tech is, by and large, pre-sailing ship. Junks are basically the pinnacle of oceangoing vessel in Creation before you start running into magical ships and airships. But in most places, galleys and other oarships are the standard.

>>47480708
>Seriously. I read Salty Dog Method and had to go rub one out.
It's a shame there aren't more Charms like it in the book, or more Charms like it in Sail.

>>47480797
>I understood just about every charm on my first read through.
Yeah that's how everyone is. Then you go try to actually use it in play and use it in combos, and you quagmire.

>>47481376
Yeah. So I move behind the guy I want to kill. Do I have to like... walk away and then back to proc my stealth rolls? Am I just supposed to stunt moving and that triggers this?

>>47481403
If triremes are the pinnacle of Creation's naval technology, how the hell is there any meaningful contact with the West whatsoever? It's like as far away from the Blessed Isles as the Americas are from Spain, and even if they once had a shipwreck there, the Roman Empire sure as shit wasn't in regular contact with Brazil.

>>47481088
I think that any time you can do a decisive attack, you can do a gambit. Snake Strikes The Heel (pg 429) says you can make a decisive clash attack, but it has to be a gambit. Since it had to specify that, it implies that any time you could make a decisive attack, you could do a gambit too.

One confusing issue related to this - one I can't believe the developers didn't get even with all the playtesting they claim they did - is what happens with counterattacks. If you use Solar Counterattack and do a disarm gambit, and it works, does their attack still hit you? If you kill them with your counterattack, does their attack still hit you?

This could have been solved with serious editing, but they didn't edit their book.

>>47481603
Infallible Messenger is still a thing.

>>47481579
>Yeah. So I move behind the guy I want to kill. Do I have to like... walk away and then back to proc my stealth rolls

Sure, if you want. But it's risky (what if the target moves away while you're one range-band away?) and not what the Charms designed for.

Its designed to let you keep up with your target as he's walking around. If your target's just sitting in one spot, Stalking Wolf Attitude isn't the best charm to use.

>>47481603
>If triremes are the pinnacle of Creation's naval technology
They're not, junks are. Oarships are the standard, but junks are the hot shit. If someone invented a ship of the line or other proper sailing vessel, they'd blow any of those other of the water, relatively speaking.

>how the hell is there any meaningful contact with the West whatsoever?
Wu Jian serves as a midway port to resupply, and captains with magical Sail-related powers are a thing that exist.

>It's like as far away from the Blessed Isles as the Americas are from Spain
Not even close. Don't get me wrong, it's a long journey, but it's only 2,000 to 2,500 miles from the Realm or the Northern Threshold to Wu Jian, and less than 1,000 miles from Wu Jian to the start of the Coral Archipelago. By comparison, it's 7,228 miles from Spain to Cuba.

All of those factors, though, are why the West is described as follows in the core rulebook:
>No other Direction is so isolated. Cut off by thousands of miles of open ocean, the West is a world unto itself. Until recently, even the Realm and the Guild have had only the most tenuous contact with its wealth and mysteries.

The West is distant, exotic, isolated, and hard to reach. But it's closer to the Realm than the Caribbean is to Spain, and closer still with Wu Jian taken into account. The lack of proper sailing ships fucking sucks for them, but luckily exalted and god-blooded captains are a thing, as are mortals ballsy enough to try to make the journey.

>>47481603

>If triremes are the pinnacle of Creation's naval technology

They are not? Read Savage Seas. It goes over heavily the different sail types and how most ships sail in the West. Triremes are the best military ships since all they do is ram each other since cannons apparently destroy the setting in a lot of people's minds for some retarded reason.

>>47476212
lol snowflake genders

>>47482094
>cannons apparently destroy the setting
Not the entire setting, just a neat feature of it - i.e. flame weapons. Flame weapons are a cool showcasing of how Creation works on a different set of natural laws than Earth, with elemental essences replacing chemistry as the building blocks of matter. So in Creation, firewands and cannons that just fire gouts of flame are a thing.

It's not setting-breaking to replace those with muskets and cannonballs, but it definitely removes a cool setpiece which serves as a low-key detail setting Creation apart.

>>47476615
now i kinda want t play it mediterranean sized

>>47481828
>By comparison, it's 7,227 miles from Spain to Cuba
No. It's about 7000 kilometers. Or, a little under 4500 miles. I'm not disagreeing with any of your points, but that specifically is factually incorrect.

>>47482160
>No. It's about 7000 kilometers.
Yeah, you're right, it's 7,227 kilometers. That was a unit error on my part.

Regardless, 2-2.5k miles from the Realm or is satrapies to Wu Jian is wildly shorter of a trip than the 4.5k miles from Spain to the Caribbean.

>>47481828
>By comparison, it's 7,228 miles from Spain to Cuba.
No, it's 7,152 KILOMETERS. It's 4,444 miles.

Doing some quick counting in paint, the westernmost point of the Blessed Isle is approximately 3,793 miles due east from the easternmost tip of the lower bits of the West (a little over a 3800 mile trip since they're very similar north/south). Portugal to Puerto Rico is less than that.

Therefore, it is like as far away from the Blessed Isles as the Americas are from Spain. And I am, thus, correct.

>>47482241
>easternmost tip of the lower bits of the West
Except Wu Jian is the Gateway to the West. That's where any trips from the Realm would be going first, and then splitting off from there. And from Wu Jian to the closest part of the Blessed Isle is a little over 2,500 miles. If you're going from one of the Realm's northern satrapies, it's even closer, clocking in at just over 2,100 miles.

The only time crossing the Atlantic is a shorter affair than crossing from the Realm or a Realm-held territory to Wu Jian is when you're comparing it to a trip like Brazil to Sierra Leone.

Creation, even with its great size, simply doesn't have that much ocean compared to Earth, and even then they still explicitly describe the West as the most isolated and hard-to-reach portion of Creation.

>>47482342
The distance from the Azores to Portugal is about 850 miles. The distance from the Azores to Newfoundland is about 1196 miles. Combined, the distance of this journey with a clear stopping off point in the middle, is less than the distance of one trip, from one point on the Realm's periphery, with no stopping point in the middle, to Wu Jian.

>>47482094
You don't need cannons to render ramming obsolete.

>>47470813
>>47470744
>>47470876

How are they going to sell you Ex3.5 in a year or 2 if they don't release 3e first?

Chronicles of Darkness has half it's splat books out already and Ex3 delayed the core for 3 years

Why do we get the crap devs?

>>47483494
Honestly, after a horrifically delayed 3 year release who would be dumb enough to put in money for another edition or book?

>>47483783
Anon, I have bad news about your misunderstanding of other peoples intellect.

Not even explaining that peoples main reason for playing a particular game is emotional.

Anyone up for some custom artifact feedback?

TWIN MIRRORS (Daiklave)

Twin Mirrors is quite possibly the most precisely-forged blade in Creation. It is actually two blades, each identical to the other in every respect, that were then sorcerously super-imposed on each other, and bound into a single blade. Its blade is made of blue jade blade and polished to a mirror sheen, then bound and filigreed with starmetal.

Any time Twin Mirrors successfully clashes an attack, it increases the damage bonus - 2 additional initiative for a withering clash, or 1 additional health level for a decisive.

Infinite Reflections - Supplemental, Instant, 1m
>The first Evocation of Twin Mirrors can be used to supplement a ready weapon action, including the automatic one granted by joining battle. When activated, the wielder grasps hold of Twin Mirrors' hilt, and draws a duplicate of the sword out of the blade. The wielder is automatically attuned to this weapon at no cost as long as he maintains his commitment to Twin Mirrors.

>The duplicate is not a shadow or inferior copy - it is just as much Twin Mirrors as the original is. While there is more than one copy of Twin Mirrors, if any of the copies lose physical contact with the attuned user, it immediately vanishes. If any copies are sheathed, all others disappear.

This has only fairly minor benefits. The primary one is being able dual-wield a daiklave without paying twice for attunement. The other is as a counter to disarm attacks that hurl your weapon away.

Shadows on the Glass - Reflexive, Instant, 3m+
>When attacked while using at least two copies, the wielder of Twin Mirrors can activate its second Evocation. Holding the blades so that his image is reflected in each, the user infuses essence into his doubles, and draws them out. Dozens of images of the user briefly flash into being, slashing and parrying, distracting the attacker.

>For each 3m the user spends, he can remove one increment of the "Double X" rule, up to his permanent essence. So if the attacker would normally be rolling Double 9s, an Essence 2 defender could pay 6m to cancel both Double 9s and Double-10s.

On a standard attack from a dangerous opponent (~14 dice), this will remove 1.4 successes. At 3m, this is around about the same efficiency as an excellency. Efficiency improves as the enemy's attack pool increases. The ability to counter higher doubles is fairly niche, and doesn't improve the scaling.

The Mirror Crack'd - Reflexive, One Scene, 5m, 1wp
>After successfully clashing with two copies of Twin Mirrors, its wielder can choose to shatter one of the copies against his opponents' blade to activate its third Evocation, and send razor-sharp crystalline fragments flying towards their face.

>The user executes a Difficulty 4 gambit. If successful, the target takes a penalty to all actions equal to the extra successes on the initiative roll, to a maximum of the rating of the ability used to make the attack.

This is roughly balanced against Crippling Fang Strike, from Snake Style. This is more expensive (including a willpower cost), and is also harder to trigger, but has the potential to inflict a higher penalty.

Thousand Razor Shards - Reflexive, Instant, 5m
>The final evocation of Twin Mirrors can be invoked to enhance its third; instead of the gambit affecting only the target, it instead attacks all creatures out to short range in a roughly cone-shaped area, as shards of essence-infused blue jade are propelled into a deadly vortex.

>The difficulty of the gambit increases to 6; the attack and initiative rolls are made once. The attack is compared against all of the targets' defences, and any against whom it succeeds are afflicted by the penalty indicated by the initiative roll.

Turns its pre-req into an AoE, at the cost of 5m, and +2 difficulty to the gambit. Increased difficulty also increases the cost of the gambit (7i), as well as making higher penalties hard to apply.

question about naming conventions

there doesn't seem to be much cultural variation right? just realm with pseudo-asian names and everywhere else with tribal sounding stuff like "conquering oaks" or "glutenous dog from the forest" or whatever? somebody from one corner of the map having suspiciously similar name to somebody from the opposite continent?

>>47483832
Same names, different reasons for having them

>>47483832
and theres no more meaning to one name or the other than irl.

"hungry hungry hippo" is no more or less insulting than "glorious eagle", nobody reads into it and they aren't meant to be descriptive (except perhaps in that one country they use divination for everything, or if they used the husbandry spell to buff a child's health in their first year)

>>47483832
like being named fred or albert

>>47483877
Hungry Hungry Hippo would be a terrifying name, have you seen those fuckers

>>47483832

The pseudo-asian names and the tribal sounding stuff is actually the same - its just translated. There's an etymological meaning behind most names, although western ones tend towards the religious, whereas eastern ones tend towards naturalism.

Like, Heng Fu means "constant lotus", or Ming Ru means "bright scholar" (apologies if my translations are off, I just grabbed them off an etymology site).

>>47483886
Hippos are one of the most dangerous animals in the wild - they're highly territorial, and very aggressive.

>>47483907
>Hippos are one of the most dangerous animals in the wild - they're highly territorial, and very aggressive.

And he's not just hungry, he's double hungry.

HHH would be the name given to some sort of cannibal warlord

>>47483886
"flaming shitcow" then.

or how "ravenous abyss bat" isn't an evil name, its just a name