How does /tg/ like your space battles? Do you go for some semblance of realism or just go all out pew pew?
>>47447356
Only game I've ever had space battles in was in Rogue Trader, where void shields, defence turrets and ludicrously large and study vessels means you can ignore the "dead by debris" aspect.
Though fire, decompressurisation and boarding were all vitally important.
>>47447356
Is this from Lensman?
>>47448613
Yeah it is
>>47448643
Lensman got an anime?
>>47448654
Back in 1984 yeah, it's only vaguely based on the original stories though, apparently it pissed off Doc Smith's estate bad enough that they forbid any other adaptations from ever being made
>>47447356
I like my tactical pewpew.
>>47447356
If space battles are possible at all without guaranteed mutually assured decompression, then they aren't realistic enough.
>>47450249
BattleTech, of all games, has the most realistic rules for space combat, taking c-fractional and relative velocity (added into projectile weapon damage) into account.
The rule is LITERALLY: "feed both record sheets simultaneously into cross-cut shredders. The sheet which is destroyed the slowest wins the fight, though is obviously still destroyed in the process." (Strategic Operations, pg 85)
Enjoy your realism.
>>47450403
idgi
is this from one of those japanime cartoons
I prefer to go towards the realism side just because the fantastic one has been done to death. Also, the rules on the fantasy one is always arbitrary.
>>47447356
If I'm playing a hard science fiction game I'd prefer no battles at all.
>>47451189
Roddenberry-esque Star Trek loving pussy/hippie detected
>>47451418
More like 'idiot who thinks that space battles won't happen because they are "too dangerous" detected'. Even though you can make an equivalent argument for the impossibility of warfare involving nuclear submarines.
I like em realistic, but there is being 'too' realisitic. Crest of the Star's is a good example of this. It had the annoying space-elf-practically-human-but-they're-better-in-every-way shit but, OTHER than that, it seemed like pretty legit space-culture, tech, and warfare tactics.
The battle scenes? Boring as fuck. It was essentially drop mines all over the place and HOPE someone else dies first.
For an anime it was refreshing as hell though, as it didn't have the teenager with angst piloting the only important GYRO-ROBO through SPHESS and swinging a sword destroying a fleet's worth of trained fighter pilots in one stroke.
But goood was it boring.
>>47451846
Forgot itty bitty pic
>>47451118
Boku no Galactic Heroes
>>47451846
Man, fuck the Abh.
No not sexually. Just fucking boot their asses out of our systems. As far as I'm concerned they're a race that absolutely should be warred against.
>>47447356
I play Traveller so its a bit of both.
plenty of pew, plenty of realism and bridge decompression, everyone's wearing vacc suits all the time during combat, you shoot the living shit out of an enemy vessel either until it explodes, or until its disabled so you can dock and take it by force with a boarding party (usually in vacc suits and entering by holes in the hull)
I like my space combat to be like modern sub combat: gotta detect the other guy first to get the first shot, and once the torps are in the water, its all waiting and inevitability. The crew does everything they can to stay alive, but sometimes you're just outgunned and you either die or limp away in retreat, hoping to lose the enemy.
Last space combat we played had a 1000 ton destroyed ambush the PCs while they were refueling planetside, it got the first salvo in with its advanced sensor processing, but the PCs were able to put out so many nuclear missles that eventually, between their 3 vessels, they were able to take out the destroyer, and its 600 ton escort.
All PC vessels suffered significant damage, and the leader PC had his bridge vented, and was sucked out into space after failing a strength check. He was left floating until things died down and the combat was over, at which point the rest of the PCs noticed he was missing and started scanning the surrounding area for him. It was a close call!
We play a hybrid of Mongoose and Classic editions for space combat, with vector based movement and different sensors having different levels of detail at different ranges. It works pretty well.
>>47447356
Some semblance AND pew pew: Orion Battleships!
As fun as it was reading pak ships being destroyed by berilium, doesn't seems very playable. And I never want to be the captain of a ship destroyed by cat litter.
When it comes to Orion battleships, the final word is Michael.
>>47451846
I actually loved the battles in Crests of Stars. They felt like they had a lot of weight behind them, and they mostly made sense - it was extremely refreshing seeing anime that prioritizes logic and internal rulesets to pure spectacle. Also, they were most quite tense, since the show frequently avoided clichés and the events unfolding weren't nearly as predictable as in most anime.
>>47451868
Nah, Abh's were cool. I mean: I entirely understand why would human kind fight against them, they were cunts, but they were entertaining as fuck and generally quite likable.
I love it when space battles are like elaborate puzzles for tacticians to solve.
>>47447356
Never once in all of human entertainment have space battles ever been depicted in a realistic way.
For one, they would all be tiny drones.
Two, all weapons would be automated and never miss.
Three, By the time "space battles" would be an actual thing we will have FTL drives and all weapons would most likely also be FTL
Four. By the time we have FTL drives we would be far past the singularity. It is literally impossible and inconceivable for our tiny little brains to comprehend what war would like like to a being of extreme intelligence. They could be fifth dimensional beings that fight through space and TIME..
So yeah, pew pew pew.
>>47452123
What's that? I'm looking for space opera animes after watching a few (gunbuster, Senkai no Senki, new Yamato, Harlock, Tytania and a few others), so if anyone has any idea about what watching next, I prefer ship to ship combat and not your tipical moeshit stuff.
>>47452125
>Two, all weapons would be automated and never miss.
Err, no. Weapons are always going to miss sometimes.
>>47452144
Assuming you haven't seen it, THE go to space opera anime is Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It's not moeshit in the least, has protagonists on either side of the morally-grey conflict, epic scale space battles, and pretty great character development.
>>47452177
they would all have guidance systems in them. Only way they would miss is if something shot down the projectiles.
The entire process would be automated. AI, drones, everything.
>>47452200
Oh fuck, yeah of course I seen it, I was re watching it right now. The space ships are cool, at least the imperial ones (free planets a shit).
>>47452203
Automated systems are infailable if all following conditions apply:
1. You have a perfect model of reality
2. All elements involved are deterministic
3. You have infinite computation time at your disposal
Good luck with that.
>>47452203
Or you know, mechanical error, operator error, target evasion, or countermeasure employment, guidance system limitations or any other of the myriad of reasons why guided weapons miss in real life.
A guidance system doesn't guarantee a hit and automation doesn't make something better, more accurate or more reliable, it just makes it automatic.
>>47452144
Starship Operators. It's a little dated, but it's still a great series.
>>47450333
Holy shit, that's the actual rule.
what the fuck.
>>47447356
For preference, Attack Vector Tactical. It's a drag to learn but it is mostly "realistic" space fighting.
If that's not available, there's always 2300AD Gaiden aka. Star Cruiser. The tactics are described in the rule book as "hide and seek with bazookas" - the first side to detect the baddies and get the missiles off has a huge advantage. The ships run on stutterwarp drives (if you've played I-War 2, this was called LDS) as do the state of the art missiles which are expensive, since they are basically small warp-capable spaceships with a big nuclear-pumped X-ray laser in it. After you run ouf of missiles, you can close in with UV lasers and particle cannons. You can fight aliens (the Käfer) or other earthlings if fighting really big, tough and heavily armed alien ships isn't your style.
I prefer pew pew, since hard sci-fi usually turns into mutual destruction via mass drivers and missiles, from what Iv'e seen.
And having your opponent 1 ua away limits the amount of tactical manoeuvers available.
>>47452250
>automation doesn't make something better, more accurate or more reliable,
Ok you guys have fucking lost it.
Like, what the fuck is wrong with your brains? Do you lack any and all critical thinking?
Even rudimentary guidance systems of an abrams tank greatly increased their effectiveness. That's 1990 tech.
Christ, are you faggots 10?
>>47452240
>FTL drives
>worried about computation time
>worried about IFF
Is the short bus comfy?
>>47451949
Where are these from?
>>47452468
Looks like some tricked-out Starfury from Babylon 5, it has the Earth Force insignia on it.
>>47452373
He wasn't talking about guidance, he was talking about automation there. He talked about guidance in the first sentence, where he is bringing up reasons why it is not absolutely infallible.
Jumping to hostility after poorly reading some guy's post on a tibetan throat singing board? Are you sure you're not the ten year old?
>>47452294
E = 0.5 * (m * v2) gives no fucks. Especially for high values of 'v'.
>>47452200
>It's not moeshit in the least
Yang is as moe as they come.
>>47452389
FTL is kinda fast, how much computation time you think you're going to get before being vaporised?
>>47452560
how the fuck is guidance NOT automation? It's literally automation. It's doing the aiming for you.
I just... seriously people. How fucking retarded are you?
automation
[aw-tuh-mey-shuh n]
Spell Syllables
the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a minimum.
guid·ance
ˈɡīdəns/
noun
the directing of the motion or position of something, especially a missile.
>>47452521
It's a "Tiger"-class 'Fury, an earlier model that served during the Dilgar War. Combat data gathered during that war led to an improved version, the "Aurora"-class seen in the show, and in turn the "Aurora" evolved into the long-nosed "Thunderbolt" seen in later seasons.
>>47452662
Well if it's FTL and say, your target is as far away as the sun I would say less than 8 minutes.
>>47452698
>>47452666
Guidance isn't necessarily automatic. Additionally you're conflating missile guidance with automation of the launch platform and those aren't the same thing.
And you clearly have your underwear in a twist.
>>47452751
It's not necessarily a valid anecdote, but in the case of the T-64 Battletank, Automation of it's loading system was generally seen as a bad thing for two reasons.
1) Lack of proper safety features around the Autoloader meant that it would sometimes attempt to load the Tank Commander into the gun. This is bad.
Tank Commanders have notoriously poor penetration and range.
2) A 3 man crew takes longer to do things than a 4 man crew does. So when it throws a track, it takes that much longer to get it moving again.
>>47447356
I really liked the Lost fleet way of space combat, it tickled the balance of pew pew to hard sci fi pretty well, it seemed a plausible way of combat.
>>47452751
is it still MCLOS if the operator is a robot?
>>47452125
>FTL
>technological singularity
>realistic
If there's going to be anything approximating space combat within the reasonable future, it's going to A) anti-satellite attacks, probably using surface-launched missiles or B) manned or unmanned sabotage of orbiting space stations outside the range of anti-satellite missiles. Kerbal Space Program is probably the closest approximation to that sort of thing, and it still doesn't take things like realistic physics, launch weather, costs, political red tape, enemy intelligence, or anything that makes war as complicated as it is into account.
>>47452809
Depends on if Robot Rights are protected by the state.
>>47452803
Yeah those were the books Pemry actually bothered to do research with over and it shows. He's still got his axe to grind same is in his other books, and Geary's almost a Mary Sue on par with Honor Harrington these days, but damn it if I didn't love how he actually managed to make Stealth in Space work and make sense.
>>47452854
Have I got exciting news for you. Check out Children of a Dead Earth - autistically hard space battle sim, including n-body physics, dynamic mass calculations as you burn dV, etc.
>>47452125
I don't see why "space battles" necessitate FTL drives.
In the mid-80s an F-15 engaged and shot down a (retired) solar observatory satellite.
It's not unreasonable to suspect anti-satellite and anti-anti-satellite operations may become a thing.
>>47452988
That might be interesting. /egg/ would shit their pants. Good luck getting any of that to work in a tabletop though.
>>47453003
A war in LEO during the cold war is not a totally far-fetched scenario.
Nobody actually gives a shit about EMP or kessler effect when an actual war is likely to happen.
>>47452882
I liked Geary, even when the Tactical Genius stuff was irksome he seemed a good lad (a bit pecked too).The aliens parts wer awesome too, I liked how he handled them.
>>47452144
Planetes.
>>47452468
>>47452521
>>47452681
I got from here:
http://efni.org/
>realistic space battle
I'm pretty sure that would be impossible on table top.
>>47453816
It had spaceship combat?
>>47452809
Yup.
And you have good taste in ATGMs.
>>47453930
Dunno, Amirauté did a pretty good simulation of the complexities of naval warfare, you could probably built it from there, if you limit yourself to 2d moves.
>>47452560
>tibetan throat singing board
I want this.
>>47454052
>limited to 2D
The opposite of a realistic space battle.
>>47452788
>Tank Commanders have notoriously poor penetration and range.
First time in a while I legitimately laugh at something on 4chan.
Thanks anon.
>>47454068
Somali basket weaving boards are better desu
>>47454091
As long as you have less than four fleets in play, you can simulate the battle on a plane.
And 2d moves don't mean 2d placement. Simulating elevation with tokens is pretty easy.
>>47447356
I really like Star Wars. Read into that as you will.
>>47453080
>Prolonged cold war sci-fi setting
>We're in the 2010/20 (or maybe even 30) and the USSR hasn't collapsed.
>US and Russia haven't gone in an all-out war on earth surface (yet), but low orbit fights to hinder each others communications have become quite common.
>Arms race have led to the US, Russia and maybe others (EU?) to build moonbases, because launching stuff from the moon requires less energy than from earth.
>There are also several orbital stations belonging to different nations, who serve as refueling and occasionally launching points for military operations.
I'm far from being an astrophysics expert, but how could this work as a relatively realistic sci-fi setting? Only obvious problem I see is getting all those people in space and allowing them to come back regularly onto earth surface.
>>47453003
>In the mid-80s an F-15 engaged and shot down a (retired) solar observatory satellite.
During the cold war, they mounted a gun on space stations and the US military did work on a single man exo-atmospheric craft that would be launched into orbit, maneuver around in order to engage and destroy a sattelite or other object in orbit, then land back on Earth (i.e. a space fighter).
Personally, I like Battlestar galactica. I like how newtonian physics requires you to be able to do all kinds of crazy shit like face one direction while moving in another direction and applying thrust in yet another direction.
And you still get the big ships on the outskirts of the battle exchanging fire.
And then you have your Raptors filling all kinds of other roles.
It would be cool to see a piece of visual fiction wherein two enemy craft intercept each others' orbits, exchange fire, go flying by each other, and then switch to their crews as they get ready for the next pass.
I like either, as long as they're done well.
My favourite depiction of space battles would have to be The Lost Fleet books for the light-lag aspects of it, but with awesome pew-pew.
It doenst need to be realistic, but it needs to be 3d, I dont want to play a game that is "futuristic planes" warfare, I want to play spaceship warfare
>>47454672
>newtonian physics
I still think the old Amiga game, Warhead, had the greatest Newtonian flight model ever. You piloted a one-man spaceship and fought the bastard Sirian bugs who had nuked Earth ("Three billion lost their lives in the first attack"...). The flight model was completely Newtonian with a number of different flight modes (free flight, direct control, follow and match velocity, etc.) and your weapons were missiles - normal or nuclear - and a piddly mass driver popgun that was mostly useful in shooting down enemy missiles.
After that, I-War and I-War 2 are the top dogs. In both you could do those "flip and shoot a bastard behind you" or "fly sideways and strafe a big battleship" tricks.
>>47454448
There wouldn't actually be that many people, the spacecraft would be small and the theatre wouldn't extend beyond the orbit of the moon at furthest.
The conflict with regards to manned craft, if manned vehicles were used at all would also be over really, really fast.
>>47454448
By the 1990s you'd be looking at satellites with MW range chemical lasers capable of destroying other satellites and ballistic missiles being a thing. These are going to be too big for a reusable manned spacecraft to take into orbit with it every time, so if space shuttles are going to be armed they're likely to have some kind of missile based armament that it can deploy from its payload bay.
>>47454705
Mang, do you know if anyone has made some fan art about the ships of the lost fleet? I really want to know how Sindic and alliance ships look.
>>47448693
>that animation
GLORIOUS.
>>47456322
Evidently we are getting a comic in the future.
http://www.jack-campbell.com/
>>47458031
Sweet, good news at least. Now we only need for the art to not be horrid...
>>47452125
>Never once in all of human entertainment have space battles ever been depicted in a realistic way.
Well, of course. There's never been a space battle.
: ^ )
![[mSubs - TSHS] Making of Lensman (1984) [62D0412D].mkv_snapshot_10.15_[2016.05.26_16.17.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1w4h0Gx.jpg "[mSubs - TSHS] Making of Lensman (1984) [62D0412D].mkv_snapshot_10.15_[2016.05.26_16.17.jpg")
>>47456839
>>47458248
god damn that's impressive.
![[mSubs - TSHS] Making of Lensman (1984) [62D0412D].mkv_snapshot_07.49_[2016.05.26_16.32.46].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0PozNoQ.jpg "[mSubs - TSHS] Making of Lensman (1984) [62D0412D].mkv_snapshot_07.49_[2016.05.26_16.32.46].jpg")
>>47458268
the brought out the big guns too
>>47458419
Were there FTL planets being shot at another planet?
>>47458770
no it was actually much more restrained than Doc Smith's stories, them most extreme thing that happens is that Kinnison transmits the Death Star plans to the Galactic Patrol fleet by lightning up the entire galaxy
>>47450403
seconding napoleonic battles in space
>>47458268
That sort of thing was actually standard for the golden age of the 80's - mid 90's, even mediocre projects had incredible production value and amazing unorthodox techniques
And like every golden age, it's lost to time
>>47458825
Man if they weren't going to get maximum crazy with it why even bother?
>>47447356
I always wanted to see a space battle were the ships fought using missiles and rail-guns at distances that required powerful telescopes to even see the enemy.
also Newtonian physics in space battles make me erect.
>>47447356
I love giant cluster fucks in space, large massive ships board siding other larger ships, while small craft/frigates/destoryers/maybe mechs? are flying in between everything as shit is exploding all around. Giant fucking laser balls firing from the planet into space as well to just fuck everything day.
I really enjoyed how the Halo novels handled space combat with opponents hundreds of kilometers apart and being one of the few sources that point out having windows of any kind on your dedicated warship is pants on head retarded. Which of course is said from the Covenant perspective commenting on human ship design.
>>47453983
Technicallyyes
>>47461307
>Can't run weapons at 100%
>Uses only like 5% max power on them
>Calls humans stupid for having windows
I love Halo so much.
pew pew
an antagonist i had in mind for one session was a guy who would jam pilot communications with punk rock, and players couldn't coordinate mid-battle until they rolled to clear the jam
>>47454448
>>US and Russia haven't gone in an all-out war on earth surface (yet), but low orbit fights to hinder each others communications have become quite common.
Kessler Cascade.
>>47456322
>>47458031
>>47454705
His beyond the frontier series was kinda decent, but I think his phoenix-whatever, the syndic epilogue/from the ashes series is pretty neato.
>>47452373
>guidance
>Abrams tank
>Christ, are you faggots 10
Old enough to know that upgrading fire-control computers doesn't equal fucking guidance nigger.
>realistic space combat
>drones without maintenance
>FTL
>DA SINGULARITY
All three of those are fucking stupid, and none of it is realistic. The Singularity is garbage because it assumes all technology is upgraded with application of intelligence and not advances in material sciences; and also that computers are going to magically invent and manufacture better computers when there's pretty obviously a limit you can hit with current methods of building chips.
>>47447356
Realistic space battles are like a bunch of snipers spread out in an open field at night, all wearing one of these.
