>Setting has elemental gods
>God of fire isn't evil
shitty worldbuilding thread?
>setting has elemental gods
>>47432661
Why should the god of fire be evil? Fire is freedom from the terrors of Disease, Cold, and Darkness.
Anyone who cooks or survives the winter probably wouldn't think of fire as entirely evil
>>47432661
>thinks elements have morals
>>47432661
>Setting has elemental gods
>Only one god of fire
I'd rather have a cliche setting than a lazy one.
>>47432661
Fire made humans. Why would you think the god of fire would be evil? If anything, it'd be a Prometheus-type figure that would be hated by the other gods, but loved by humans. And honestly? I like being warm. I like cooked food. I like fire. Fire is good. Screw those other gods
>>47432661
>God of fire should be evil
Do you even eat cooked food?
If eggs, bacon, weed, and lights are wrong, then I don't want to be right.
>>47432851
In OP's case, it's both.
>>47432778
>>47432808
If anything, the fire god's primary personality quirk should be that he's hungry, like all the fucking time. Fire needs fuel to exist, it needs to consume, and it'll consume everything until either its extinguished or contained or it has eaten everything it can. The god of fire would always be eating something because that's just who he is.
>>47432661
>Setting has benevolent gods
>Setting has evil gods
>Setting has gods that understand the consequences of their actions enough to be considered morally culpable
>Gods that do not act almost exclusively on impulse
>The gods' power moves the world predictably and purposefully, rather than ending in a mess of collateral damage with a dubious success rate
>>47432661
Not all fire gods are evil, Anon.
>>47432890
Related.
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47391394/#47391960
>>47432778
>>47432808
>>47432860
>>47432861
Fire used by humans is different. It's enslaved, tamed fire.
Fire god SHOULD be evil.
>steampunk versions of modern appliances
>race inserted purely for comedy
>a dozen kinds of magic that work completely different and are often tied to small groups
>stacking multiple tears of escalating powerful cosmology that is inconsequential to everything
>special race that is super wonderful and can do no wrong
>technology is evil, nature is good
>setting has more than five or so gods
>all evil gods are in some way linked to death
>>47432661
Ideally your setting should have titans/giants representing the primal elements and younger gods and heroes representing the tame ones. Your god of storms vs a god of fishing and ships, or your god of untamed fire vs a goddess of hearthfire. IRL pantheons often have redundancy and multiple generations, though it's messier than having a bunch of 1:1 equivalents.
>>47432981
Fire should be Chaotic, but I don't see Evil.
>>47432981
And the other elements shouldn't? Earthquakes, floods, tjunamis, tornados, and hurricanes can be just as destructive as wildfires and volcanoes, and volcanoes are really a mix of earth and fire anyway.
>>47433025
You. I like you.
>race inserted purely for comedy
>special race that is super wonderful and can do no wrong
Worst of all, when these two are combined into one race.
>>47433025
>>a dozen kinds of magic that work completely different and are often tied to small groups
This is actually good worldbuilding.
>>47433025
Most of these arent bad except for
>Special race that is super wonderful and can do no wrong
Usually a mouthpiece for the DMs political/cultural views, always shitty
>Technology is evil, nature is good
Yeah, those terrible evil vaccines beating up good polio
>>47432661
>Fire god
>Evil
Warmth, light, cooking food, cleansing wounds, boiling water
Eat a cocksickle OP
>>47433115
I wasn't talking about using the same framework of magic in different way depending on culture and faction. I meant going kitchen sink with magic systems.
>>47433147B-but vaccines give autism!
>>47432861
I'd worship the god of eggs, bacon, and weed.
If such a god existed it would probably be my favorite next to the god of tits and wine
>>47432661
>>47433184
>MFW people actually believe this
>>47432981
>Fire god advocates fire everywhere, always
>Wants to burn everything and everyone till nothing remains
Now we've got some antagonist material.
>>47432981
>applying morals to the deification of a chemical reaction.
>>47432966
Maybe, but you sure picked a bad example to prove that one.
>>47432661
>There is a perfect communist people that are just better than all of the other civilizations that hold great disdain for the "Uncivilized folk"
Bonus points if they don't expand violently but somehow have shit tons of land and people join them voluntarily because they are just betterI have see this, and yes the DM was a cuck bernie supporter
>>47432981
Don't be stupid, anon. Where do you think humanity learned how to tame fire from? The Fire God, through its priests, teaches us to control fire. But it also teaches us to respect it, for even a tame fire may grow wild without its favor.
>>47433209
>However its incarnations are barely sentient and easy to tame or redirect
This sounds more like fire incarnate
>>47433231
>Where do you think humanity learned how to tame fire from?
Prometheus stole the primordial fire and carried it down to our ancestors.
>>47433210
>deification of a chemical reaction
Oh, come off it.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fire_gods
There's a lot of good shit here and most of them aren't evil.
>>47433147
>Usually a mouthpiece for the DMs political/cultural views, always shitty
NOTHING pisses me off more than this.
I make it a point to have visible flaws in every nation/culture in my settings.
Even the happy-go-lucky moogle-esque nature geeks, stereotypically the 'perfect' race in most settings, have the fatal flaws of being cowardly, annoying little shits with no idea how the outside world works and a civilization so backwards it boggles the mind.
>>47432661
Calcifer the fire demon confirmed best fire incarnate
>>47433253
Yes, which is why Greek Myth doesn't have a Fire God.
The god of fire yearns to break free from its slavery and wreak revenge on mankind.
>>47433258
But Anon, my civilization would work because I'm smarter than you so I would see the flaws and correct them.
You just aren't as smart as me so your civilizations have flaws
>MFW I'm doing worldbuilding with someone and this is their argument.
>>47433257
...are you saying fire isn't a chemical reaction?
>>47433203
Lately people have taken to giving autistic kids bleach enemas because they think the autism is caused by parasites. When the kid shits out their damaged intestinal lining they think that they purged a parasite.
>>47433294
I'm saying that chemical reactions don't mean shit when chemistry isn't an understood science, as is the case 99.9% of the time there are actively worshiped deities of the 4 classical elements.
>it is the normal world, except there are hidden vampires. Setting done!
>color-coded dragons
>race or faction that is so enlightened that they do literally nothing ever
>elemental planes with elemental themed content
>breaking the fourth wall
>awareness of game mechanics
>>47433324
Which still does not change the fact that a fire god is the deification of a chemical reaction.
Besides, even if we are running off Aristotelian elements, they are still amoral. They are the things which make up other things.
Do you really have a point?
The god of fire should always remind his followers that flames rise, not crash to the ground.
>>47433295
>Read this on 4chan
>"All things here are artistic works of fiction..."
>Look it up out of curiosity
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/autism-potentially-lethal-bleach-cure-feared-to-have-spread-to-britain-a6744291.html
I...I need a moment. The stupidity is too much
>God of Death
>Is evil
Is there anything worse?
>>47433372
My point is that you're a ponce and that pointing out that fire is chemistry offers nothing to anything.
>Greek mythology setting
>HADES IS A BAD GUY
>HADES IS A GOD GUY
Both of these are equally shit. He is pretty clearly as neutral as it gets.
>>47433340
>it is the normal world, except there are hidden vampires
As long as the vampires are done well, I'm down. It may not be realistic, but "normal world, but secretly x exists" can be really fun.
>>47433414
So, nothing?
Good talk friend, good talk.
>>47432661
>Gandalf the Grey
>Evil
There's a saying where I come from: fire is a good servant but a bad master. God of fire probably wouldn't be evil, considering how vital fire is, but he might be portrayed as irresponsible or kind of dickish, likely to set things on fire if other gods don't reign him in, just like leaving fire unsupervised is a bad idea.
>>47433453
oh you
>Make ordinary medieval setting. Hey magic was nanomachines all along what a tweest! Does that change anything? No, but nanomachines!
>No food source to be found. Massive Metropolis!
>Those amazing stuff you just read about? The game is set 10000 years later, when nothing happens.
itt fagbabies who are scared of a little fire
>>47432890
Thanks, got an idea for my novel now.
>>47433543
>fagbabies
>>47433102
>race inserted purely for comedy
>special race that is super wonderful and can do no wrong
>Worst of all, when these two are combined into one race.
I am having a seizure just thinking about my hate for Kender.
>>47433190
>god of tits and wine
Bacchus is your god then
>>47433586
Is Tracy Hickman history's greatest monster for inventing Kender?
Yes. Yes he is.
>>47433401
Death should be true neutral at best because its just a natural thing that happens, it doesn't seek to give death nor should it truly care about preventing it. Death happens when it happens.
>Worldbuilder tries to make his setting "deep", and "interesting", and "though-provoking".
>Just adds topical RL political analogues.
>>47433669
>neutral death gods
ugh. I get it. you read sandman and thought the perkygoth chick was cute.
Evil death gods are the way.
>b-buh everyone dies! it's neutral
do you know any evil people who cut dudes slack for also being evil? Do serial killers get ready to carve up a victim, see his vic is a neo-nazi, and let him go?
no. Death comes for EVERYTHING. Death wants it all, and is gonna take everything, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. He won't be bartered with, begging won't get him to let you go.
It's going to happen. Quit struggling. Just lie back and take it.
Yeah, Death is evil.
>>47432778
lord gwyn go home, the age of fire is over.
>>47433401
>>47433669
>>47433718
>Death
>An entity
>>47433718
God of murder and drowning and violent death, yes. Psychopomp? not so much. DEATH itself? sure as shit not.
>>47432661
There are multiple ways of interpretting fire, OP. Fire can be any of
>hatred, suffering, death, despair
>warmth, comfort, life, hope
>wild, powerful, fleeting, awe inspiring
>innovative, determined, passionate, illuminating
Depending on what a given group of people does and where they live, they'll see fire in different ways.
For instance, a society that makes its living by farming will view fire as a horrible, terrible catastrophe, something to be treated with great suspicion and care at best or something to be avoided at all costs at worst.
Whereas some dudes living up so far north your balls will shrivel just thinking about it will view fire as their god given savior, a source of hope and salvation.
>>47433718
>The personification of things ending possesses morality.
Cool story bro
>>47433718
>ugh. I get it. you read sandman and thought the perkygoth chick was cute.
I read Reaper Man, Mort, Hogfather, and Thief of Time, you can eat shit.
>>47433718
without death life has no meaning
death is what makes life special.
>Setting has elemental gods
>God of metal isn't brutal
>>47433420
But anon, he is is a god guy. Isn't he also about as close to "good" as the Greek gods got?
>>47433718
I thought Discworld had the preferred "neutral Death" character?
>>47433183
Technically, that's more on system than setting. But I get what you're saying.
How do you feel about those cases where (in a class-based game) certain classes are restricted to certain cultures? Ie, all wizards are from these two countries because only they do book-learning magic, the witches of the moor are the only example of xyz, and so on. Do you feel that's still too complicated?
>>47433213
Gwyn wasn't really any more or less evil than a lot of Greek gods. Selfish and a dick? Sure. Evil? Not quite.
Granted, he's not even a god of fire, the fire just empowered him - he's really just the head god among those who were empowered by the First Flame.
>>47433797
Discworld Death is nominally neutral but effectively Good.
>>47433777
>I have cred because I read (admittedly clever and high-quality) YA humorous fantasy books.
Unless you're a teenager, you get zero brownie points for being familiar with Pratchett.
>>47433797
The Greek gods were above morality. Because they were gods.
>>47433656
To be fair...Kender are not exactly an invention.
Kender are a personification of That Guy's favorite PC in the early days of DnD.
I have no fucking idea WHY the asshole Halfling thief is the oldest trope in fantasy gaming, but pretty much from the beginning it's been a cliché. (Right up to early Dragon magazine referring to Frodo Baggins as a master thief...seriously, nobody's ever bothered to do the reading.)
So, Hickman decided to create a version of Halflings that reflect how they actually acted at the table. Was it a good idea? Fuck no, of course not! But, that's what happened.
(Greenwood's version in Forgotten Realms, where Halflings see themselves as the up-and-comers, like matching wits with other races, and love spending money on themselves and their friends, is a little better I guess, but not by much.)
>>47433869
the greek gods were not above morality, because they could be killed.
>>47433871
>early Dragon magazine referring to Frodo Baggins as a master thief
Are you sure they didn't say Bilbo, who was explicitly acquired for thieving purposes?
>>47433744
Yeah, I honestly disagree with 'Death is always Neutral' as much as I disagree with 'Death is always Evil'. There are enough aspects of and perspectives on Death that it can be seen in a lot of different lights.
But then again, even though it's a useful shorthand for explaining your pantheon, if you're only defining your god by their portfolio, it's probably a shit god.
>>47433718
>the god of death gets so fed up with being called evil that he quits
>the world is now full of people who can't die but new people are still being born
>other people are in constant hell of not being able to die (like people who have fallen into valcanos and people buried in caveins etc.)
looks like we've actually gone full circle with the discussion as prometheus had his liver eaten everyday by vultures and was not permitted death
>>47433900
Nope. If it'd been Bilbo, I would understand.
The editor refers to an adventuring party having their entire haul stolen by Frodo Baggins.
>>47432890
Fire will still be hungry when contained and would be extinguished if it are everything it can.
>>47433882
> they could be killed
That's mortality chump.
>>47433854
Started as a teen, not so much a teen anymore but still and appreciator of Pratchett.
>>47433967
nice try nerd, i was implying that if you can be killed then you are not above morality as you can receive punishments.
>>47432661
>FIRE IZ EVUL!!!
Obvious troll is obvious.
>>47433979
I...it....
That implies that the dead go to an afterlife that features reward and punishment.
The Greek afterlife for mortals only barely involves that.
And for the gods....oh yeah, the gods CAN'T ACTUALLY BE KILLED!
Those immortal beings in Tartarus weren't slain, they were imprisoned. Closest you get is the myths where Atlas is turned to stone...and his 'soul' doesn't move on to the after world, he's just...unfeeling, uncaring stone.
So...they're actually above both morality *and* mortality, by your (pretty terrible) definitions.
>>47433777
>>47433797
>discworld death
>neutral
the job is neutral. the entity is clearly not
>>47433811
That is fine.
When it is this it becomes a problem:
>Wizards do arcane magic by researching gestures etc.
>Bards use explicitly the power of music that is a different thing than doing incantations that just happen to be sung. No it is magic music.
>Psions just think extra hard and unlock their minds.
>then there is runesmiths who do runes obviously
>then a demon summoner could use runes in pentagrams... but no he uses the true names of demons
>then the clerics just ask god to do stuff
I guess what matters is if a setting does the legwork to connect it's traditions so that they feel like they belong in the same world, instead of just plucking them modular. Of course you could explain why all of these fit together, but most settings never ever bother.
>>47433996
>>47433915
not to mention undead are almost always evil and are shown to be dealt with by fire
>>47434058
Oh! I think I get what you're saying.
You prefer there to be a Unified Theory of Magic, then? Where most of the magic done in the world can be traced back to the same source, just with different methods of tapping into it?
>>47433970
Same here, but I don't think Pratchett's the best example to give while defending your oh-so-superior taste. That's like being called a fat slob and responding by saying you eat your greens at dinnertime,in my opinion, at least.
>>47433797
>But anon, he is is a god guy. Isn't he also about as close to "good" as the Greek gods got?
Eh, second place. Hestia would take first.
>>47434058
>>47433183
I actually prefer magic similar to this, but rare and/or limited. When you have several different types of subtle or low-power magic that do their own things, you can use that to introduce more depth to the traditions of your setting's cultures. It also makes it feel more "magical", especially if it's not fully explained.
>>47433793
Fuck off, bioconservative.
>>47433436
Jesus Christ, your autism levels are off the charts. Take your Fedora and vape pen and go, you don't belong near anything fantasy, you'd just suck the fun out of it with your constant "b-b-b-but muh science".
My fire god - often invoked as the god of ambition - may be rather evil. He slew his sister, the goddess of the hearth fire, to gain her portfolio and consolidate his power. He's also recently usurped the death god as the ruler, and judges souls who pass through the afterlife only by how well they served HIM, not any other god. Basically, he's trying to turn a polytheistic religion into a monotheistic religion with angels and demons. It's working pretty well. Except that he's petty, tyrannical, and an all-around dick, so the PCs are going to have to do something about that.
>>47434086
Exactly. In universe this doesn't have to be known, but as a reader you should see a number of distinct magical principles at work.
>>47434279
...You know, if I actually talked to an old Science Fiction author who talked about transhumanism, would I find them to be as big an asshole as I find most transhumanists? Or was there a shift at some point between the 50s and now?
>>47433289
Just make a bbeg in the game whose first act of evil is to liberate the skeletons of that civilization from their fleshy meat prisons.
>>47433718
>comparing death to a serial killer and saying they're the same
nigga
Death doesn't take pleasure in doing what he does.
He doesn't dislike it either.
He does it because that *is* what he does.
Asking him to spare someone or stop what he's doing is like asking a tree to stop being a tree, or a human to stop being human. It doesn't make sense.
Meanwhile a serial killer knows what he does, can stop anytime he wants to, but doesn't out of pleasure or some other personal reason.
>>47434309
yes and no.
all the old sf authors were dicks in assorted ways, but they'd be a different flavor of asshole from most modern transhumanists.
I think it's got something to do with imagination. It's the difference between being able to imagine a flying car, and just feeling entitled to having one because you were born in a technological imperial nation.
>>47434334
Death isn't an outside force.
It is your body succumbing to its own weakness.
TAME THE FLESH!
>>47434309
I don't think anyone in the fifties was talking about transhumanism. The closest you got was vaguely-defined eugenics and 'evolution into a higher race'. If I had to guess, I'd say 'modern' transhumanism, as a distinct movement, got started somewhere in the nineties.
>>47434334
The god of death should be a representation of the greatest mystery that humanity knows about. "What happens when we die?" is something everyone has thought about and no one knows the answer to. It's likely no one ever will.
The death deity should be like a huge magic hole that has no bottom and everyone falls into. Something that's not at all anthropomorphized, and may not even be sentient, and if it was, we'd be completely unequipped to understand or communicate with it. It's worshippers would all be insane.
>>47434362
The weakness of your body can be fixed by replacing the flesh with metal. Metal never ages, if your metal starts to corrode and degrade you can replace it or upgrade to even better parts.
"I never asked for this. But your body cried out to be liberated, so we did. You have transcended humanity, you are better than you could've ever been."
>>47433052
Elements of fire-air-earth-water are stupid.
My setting has elements of particles (substances), energy(fire and frost alike), fields (electromagnetic, gravity an' shiet), and dark matter.
Science fantasy best fantasy
>>47434334
>death doesn't take pleasure in doing what he does
says who? you?
>>47433209
Jesus people like you are sad, do you realize that soon even childrens media will be too advanced to use this kind of retarded logic where everything a character will say think or do can be predicted based on two or three bullet points about the element or animal or whatever they use as their totem, fucking go write a fanfic for avatar, either one of those is filled with shit that is just such a sad rehashing of what you knew was gonna happen after the heavy handed foreshadowing slaps you around like a 7 foot bodybuilder, and here you are going "ooh he burns things, what a wonderous chance to explore his burning passion for burning" seriously even if you were being sarcastic it's an unworthy shitpost since you're agreeing with all the other morons who probably would read cliffs notes on a lego movie just to experience it on a deeper level.
>>47434133
True enough. He's also pretty accessible (at least Discworld is) so it's not like you earn any literary points by reading his work.
>>47434498
I feel my brain cells dying as I read this
>>47434491
>knocking the classics
>>47433540
>>Make ordinary medieval setting. Hey magic was nanomachines all along what a tweest! Does that change anything? No, but nanomachines!
Zog off, Endless Legend is da best.
>>47434566
CHAAAAANGEEE FOR THE CHANGE GOD
>>47434044
The DUTY is neutral*
And given that life isn't fair, someone very well ought to be.
>gods of forces of nature
>being aligned or at least not true neutral
Ugh.
>>47434654
>Chaotic Neutral
FTFY, nature's a mess.
Dude. I've done a setting where the 5 primary elements were:
>Blood
>Bone
>Fire
>Noise
>Metal
And each element had associated gods which would have probably all been considered neutral. It's pretty easy to even make stuff like a blood god good if you do it right. Metal was naturally good since metal existed for humans to fight back against the primordial evils of the world.
Frankly, the world kinda sucks but it could be worse, which suggests to me that most gods are probably neutral
>>47434700
Blood and metal is one. IRON WITHIN is blood, iron in gemoglobene, IRON WITHOUT is ARMOR AND SWORDS!
>>47433025
>a dozen kinds of magic that work completely different and are often tied to small groups
I'd argue that when done well, this can be a good worldbuilding element.
For example, in my Bronze Age Burning Wheel setting, magic is defined by your relationship with the gods (all magic is divine). So, if a civilization has widespread writing and a sedentary society, magic will follow along those lines and become a hierarchical power system driven by knowledge and writing. However, magic amongst more pastoralist and nomadic peoples is less powerful but more personal, as prayer is not standardized.
>>47434700
Actually, I do have a worldbuilding complaint that I can jump off of for this one.
>All good gods have more or less the same celestial beings under their command, similar is true for LE or CE gods. Pantheon isn't terribly tiered.
That setting had Angels for each god to fill in other things. So Flesh was an angel under the god of blood, as was Water. Archangels combined multiple elements such as Fire and Noise sharing the archangel Combustion or Fire and Bone (which had the angel Earth under him) shared Magma
>>47433706
Fuck, I hate this.
Explore the themes unique to the setting if you want to be deep and thought provoking.
>>47432661
Dark Souls style: Fire is life.
Fire is the force behind all life, to die is for a fire to go out. Fire consumes resources just as life does, it breathes air and digests matter. A fire burns through a forest and that forest grows back healthier than before. Also, fire keeps you warm, and provides light. A God of Fire could be a God of Life, Guidance, Protection, and Change.
>>47434333
Can't
Low magic settingAlso Im not a complete asshole
>>47434755
To me it sounds like those aren't fully different kinds of magic per se, but rather different ways a single type of magic is realized by different groups.
>>47434496
nig nog if you can imply he does I can imply he doesn't
>an Always Evil faction
I can understand evil demons, but mortal alwayzbaddies
>>47434491
>not strong, weak, gravitational, and electromagnetic deities
Dropped.
>>47435179
Hey, be careful what you wish for. I think it's the Trail of Cthulhu book which pitches that as entities like Azathoth, Hastur, Yog-Sothoth and Shub-Niggurath.
>>47433871
>X is a personification of some guy's favorite PC in the early days of DnD.
That's kinda how a lot of shit in those days was formed.
>So, Hickman decided to create a version of Halflings that reflect how they actually acted at the table.
See where he reeeally fucked up is trying to force marysue trait of everybody loving them regardless of them being thieving cunts.
>>47434370
I broke down in giggles when I read the thir post of that.
>>47433225
The two biggest empire in my setting are a communist shithole - where my party won't even set foot despite the ungodly amount of plot hooks that would have them travel through their territory - and an imperialist prussia analogue turned militaristic meritocracy after a botched coup.
>Lawful Evil God of Earth
>Chaotic Good God of Water
>Lawful Good God of Air
>Chaotic Neutral God of Fire
Anything less is shit tier.
>>47434301
I actually feel rather differently. In a big world, an exotic and largely unknown world, sometimes their shit is sufficiently different from ours to seem unrelated.
And I think much of the appeal of fiction is to be in such a large, exciting, adventurous place. Not just fantasy either, but science fiction as well.
Sure, you can create an Old World feel, but such a setting pretty much has to focus on culture dynamics and other more "serious-business" ways of looking at events and the Universe, as opposed to an adventure. An not everyone wants to play Dune-like games all the time.
>>47433996
>The troll dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate.
>and doesn't regenerate.
Does that mean he can't be killed if party doesn't have fire or acid source ? Purely raw speaking.
>>47433718
Hades for example wasn't evil; but he was feared, which is different. If being inevitable makes you evil in your moral framework, than that says more about you than it does about fantasy gods.
>>47434086
Not him but Unified theory allows for an easier understanding of what can and cannot be done. Also kills in the egg attempts at muh special magicl race snowflaks. Both from mg and players
>>47434033
>they were imprisoned
Kind of like the concept of souls receiving eternal reward or punishment in the afterlife?
>>47432661
Fire is viewed in a positive light in most cultures and the point that man first controled fire is syoblically viewed as the first great, if not single greatest act humanity has ever accomplished in most cultures and mythologies.
Why would it be evil?
>setting has gods
>most are neutral or good
>the god of man is the only evil one
>>47434423
>Metal never ages
My trailer full of structural engineers will probably never stop laughing.
>>47435693
>Anything other than Earth
>Lawful
Disgusting. Water, Fire, and Air are all constantly moving. Earth is the only one with any real structure. Maybe water, but Air as Lawful Good? Really?
>>47435789
I've seen one or two representations of the invention of fire as the original sin that severed man from the natural order.
There's a couple of fantasy settings where all the 'ancient' races are shitscared of fire. Like, not even any more vulnerable to it than people, but absolutely terrified because it's this forbidden, mad power that humans harnessed in order to break free of the harmonious order established by the gods and wreak havoc.
So in short I mean, yeah having fire gods be absolutely evil is hard, but you can definitely have fire be well, something that you have to use responsibly.
>>47435734
Yes. And it was not just RAW, but the spirit of the design as well. If you had no fire or acid source, you just put him at enough negative HP / subdual damage (like, massive multi-round full-party coups de gras amounts) and either got a fire going while continuing to damage it, or fucking left the troll's territory without a trace.
>>47432981
>Fire god is into breath-play
>Fire god is flighty, vicious, will claim and consume everything if you let it but can be stymied by simple precautions
>Men can be entranced by fire's beauty and can stare into it all night long
>Fire god should get back in the kitchen where it belongs, though
>>47435811
I might have missed it if not for you. Every fucking time, these people...
>>47435756
I don't really see the problem of having parameters dictated by the tradition of magic. Having a Unified Theory of Magic for your setting seems about as important as knowing how the human nervous system works when choosing colours for a boudoir.
If leveraged in sufficiently different ways, the underlying theory needn't be as obvious to the player as you describe.
To be clear, I'm not arguing against having a UTM in settings but simply asserting that they aren't the only viable way to do things.
>>47433401
In my current setting the god of death is also the god of fire. He lives in a volcano where the souls of the departed come to be burned in his crucible and rise to the stars.
He is stoic and uncompromising,but he is often tricked by the other gods, or by heroes in some myths.
Apparantly, you CAN cheat death and get away with it.I don't use alignments in my games. I prefer to use personalities instead.
>>47435734
Where were you the last four editions?
>>47432661
>pretty much any game religion
As a student of religion, both new and ancient, I just cant get into most religions in games. They are just so poorly made.
>>47435826
>air
>moving
Uh? Where does it go exactly? There's ALWAYS air all around you, idiot. Yeah sometimes the air swirls around, the same way your stomach rumbles, but the body itself doesn't move.
-High Lecturer Mikeus II, slapping down a young philosopher
>>47433854
The main Discworld novels are not YA, they're meant for adults.
>>47435126
Alignment is what side you've taken with regards to cosmic forces, NOT personality. That's why its called alignment, not personality. Thus, it makes sense that an entire "side" would be on one side or the other, no?
>>47433420
Don't forget Dresden Files "Hades is based and has a boner for Harry"
>>47436000
I was playing home-brews.
>I've never actually seen a D&D book in my life.
>>47436001
Can you give me an example of a particularly bad/light offender? Teach me, master.
>>47435888
>Having a Unified Theory of Magic for your setting seems about as important as knowing how the human nervous system works when choosing colours for a boudoir.
I use it to have a quick and relatively clear way of defining if x or y is doable or not.
That way less time is spent having to explain why bobby can't teleport the bbeg in the sun or stuff of that kind.
But it doesn't stop different relations to magic, it just gives basis for rules; generally linked to the rules in the rulebook.
>>47433025
But anon Eberron is actually kind of good.
>>47436259
I always explain each tradition of magic pretty clearly, from it's own point of view. This usually gives my players enough purchase to decide if they want to try something or not, and then the outcomes will show the fact of the matter. I don't think I've ever had a problem with anyone finding the various magics too "inscrutable" or something.
>>47433612
Though to be fair he's almost certainly also in favour of weed, and eating tasty food as well.
>>47434700
>metal, noise, blood and fire
Patrician taste right here
>>47432661
>setting has themed gods with spheres
>god of darkness/negative thing is neutral or good
Disgusting
>>47432661
But the god of plasma is alright?
Fire is the element of LIFE, anon. So unless you're saying that life is evil, you can just fuck off with your terrible opinions.
>>47436495
Prometheus go back to being chained up the real gods are talking here.
It's almost like you can fluff whatever you want to be whatever alignment you want.
>>47432661
>setting has ''''''''''''''''''''''elements'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
lol no, fire isn't an element, things like oxygen are elements
>>47436527
Fuck off Randall, you aren't clever and Megan is never coming back.
>only kind of magic is elementalism
>only kinds of gods are elemental
if he wasn't such a good DM i'd tell him what fucking horseshit his settings are to his face
>>47436515
Cellular breathing is nothing but a complex variation of fire.
>>47434700
What if a god had all of these elements? What would be a fitting name for him?
>>47436168
I'm not much of an teacher, but if it is one type I particularly dislike it is the Archetype-pantheons, like the seven in GoT, where you just have "The warrior, the mystic, the smith" etc. They tend to fall flat because they write it like a glorantha style archetype worship but treat it more like a chaos-magic use of archetypes.
While having read no Jung.
As for most D&D pantheons, you can just swap out the gods for superheroes and works just as well. Sometimes it even makes a little bit more sense...
If you wish to be good at making up religions I encourage you to study not only the WHATs of religion but also the WHYs.
Why did people think like this? why was this and that sacred?
Religion, one could argue, is about making sense of the cosmos. All too often I see it being tacked on a culture so characters can have a star to wish upon, but for ancient cultures there were no separation between religion and life. As above, so below.
>>47436577Van Halen
Man what if there were no gods of any specific thing? Like, every element, every aspect there could be a god of is instead ruled by a pantheon of competing demigods who rise and fall on a semi-regular basis. They fight over differences in philosophy of their designated element/aspect. Like a demigod of fire who is outright gleefully destructive, who teaches survival of the fittest against a demigod of fire who sees no difference between fire consuming living things and other living things consuming living things and teaches unity and shit.
>>47436577
Man
>>47436483
He's a good guy overall, eat armor for breakfast too.He just HATE people who roll one though.
>>47436333
>>47435888
I think ultimately unified magic is mostly used as an explanation for the rules.
At least that's what I do. A way to explain to Bob that even though gods live in space they can't/won't send a meteor on the BBEG simply because his cleric asked nicely.
>>47432661
>good and evil gods
>good world building
Pick one.
>>47432661
>fire
>evil
The night is dark and full of terrors
>>47433718
Alright then, if the god of death is evil then why can evil people die? Why would the evil guy allow villains to die when he could just not let them die and thus allow their evil to run rampant and without consequences?
>>47436907
Because they are not beyond his grasp, when they die they fall into his domain. Death makes them his.
>>47434700
Funny you mention that, I used a similar concept in an old setting, albeit limited to Fire, Blood, and Iron as the three primary elements. Three warring kingdoms that were each blessed by an eldritch entity that embodied one of these concepts, which at first granted them success and glory until it become an obsession, consumed them, and left their kingdoms in ruin, leaving the setting to be dark fantasy with some Lovecraftian themes mixed in.
I'd be interested in hearing more about your versions of these gods if you have a moment. The inspiration would be much appreciated.
>>47432661
Prometheus.
>>47432661
Maybe you're just retarded considering Fire is associated with light, passion and purity. Puryfing fire is a thing.
>>47436975
When has fire purified anything other than metal?
>>47436979
It also purifies water. And spirits.
>>47436979
>applying real world logic onto fantasy
Beyond retarded.
>>47436987
But only when metal is involved though.
>>47436979
1940-1944
>>47436996
>am a peasant
>blacksmith puts rocks into a big rock cage and somehow uses what comes out to make buckets and farming tools.
>surely this magical fire rock box must purify skin!
>FANTASY!
>>47436996
I once made a religion which was basically a modern human trying to explain string theory to primitive humans.
>>47436999
You don't need metal to boil water, although it does simplify the operation.
>>47437020
Fire magic in most rpg settings is associated with purifying flames and light, see most undeads being weak to fire.
>>47437042
>UH WELL... TECHNICALLY YOU CAN CHOP DOWN A TREE WITH ONLY YOUR FINGERNAILS!
>TECHNICALLY.
>>47436979
The holocaust.
>>47437050
You can boil water in a clay pot too retard.
>>47437050
No you can't. You can, however, make a cauldron of sorts from leather.
>>47437146
Technically speaking with unlimited time and unlimited force >>47437050 is possible.
But that is improbable to the extreme.
>>47436979
Food. Water. Wounds. The dead.
>>47432661
Pyro's factories are NOT iniquity!
>>47432861
Out of those things, only weed is wrong.
>>47433832
>>47432966
>>47433213
Gwyn ain't even a fire god, he's the Lord of Light
The only thing he and his followers had power to make and use were miracles like sunlight spears, the fire shit was purely from the First Flame
>>47432910
What's even the point of having gods that don't do anything?
>>47434734
gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
>>47437240
Reading comprehension completely failed. Please try again.
>>47432661
>Prometheus, Hephaestus, Svarog, Kresnik, Agni etc. (and don't even get me started on various gods of sun etc., which usually also governed the fire domain)
>evil
Look at this filthy retarded plebeian of lowest caliber.
I bet he doesn't even praise the sun, or even moon, for that matter.
>>47437201
Underrated post.
>>47436979
Pretty much any time there was a fire, ever.
>>47432661
>setting has elemental gods
>fire god isn't a neutral God of the forge worshipped by crafters
>>47436999
You can boil water even in a paper cup, dummy.
Do people really not know such basic things?
This makes me question what kids are being taught nowadays.
>>47433025
I read only the first few words of each line and got
>steampunk race, a dozen kinds of stacking special race technology
And somehow, it made sense in a greentext kind of way. Why can't the steampunk race only excel in exactly one specialized application based on steam?
>>47433420
He's Lawful Neutral in general. He is just often portrayed as evil because he fucking HATES the other gods, cause he is often treated as a joke by them.
>>47432661
>applying alignments to elemental gods
Even if you we're to do something that dumb, the god of fire would be chaotic neutral at worst.
>>47433025
>a dozen kinds of magic that work completely different and are often tied to small groups
That sounds much better than a single unified type of magic that can do everything. The alternative is magic becoming some sort of inexplicable Swiss army knife, and that just leads to "a wizard did it" all the time.
Also, it's spelled "tiers".
>>47436589
Have you ever read Fading Suns?
>>47436589
that was a good post, thank you
>>47432661
>setting has elemental gods
>they are not neutral
>>47432661
>Setting uses alignment
Dropped
>>47433025
>steampunk
99% of it is already bad,digging for the 1% is not worth
>>47435734
You can always seal him IN ANOTHER DIMENSION!!!!
But if you have that, you should be able to make a little campfire and dump his little troll bits in it.
>>47432890
My personal setting has 4 elements with 3 sub-elements each. Air represents Change while Earth represents Stasis, and Water will Replenish what Fire Consumes. All the sub elements will play part in this too. For Fire, the sub-elements are Fire itself, Arid (erosion), and Acid/Bio (caustic). Fire representing eating or consuming just makes more sense than it needs to.
>>47433340
it is the normal world, except there are hidden vampires. Setting done!
And Kobolds were used by French to dig threnches,ISIS is gathering an army of Djinii,drones are a fusion of a fairy and a machine there are also Dragons but they mostly live on a moon
Is it alright now?
>>47437399
I came here to post this.
>>47432661
>"I don't like [thing]".
>bitches instead of moving on
>image_of_a_stock_photo_model_acting_repulsed.xcf
>>47437769
Only if the dragons are nazis.
>>47436540
>>47433025
>Steampunk
Steampunk is overused, and part of the problem is that steampunk stuff is overused even in their own settings.
The whole point of steampunk is that artefacts are the solution of the rich and entitled. I recently did a 'steampunk' game and found it ran much better when you had it as pretty much 16-17th century society and then add it a steampunk thing only every so often.
In my homebrew, the god of fire is Chaotic Neutral.
>>47437833
I like the Malifaux levels of it. It's not bright and shiny and solves everything but if you have money or are willing to go heavily into debt you can manage a pneumatic limb after an accident.
But that's really more Magitek with a steam look (Save for the Engineer class. That class is notable for being completely non-magical in it's animation of machinery. It's just that good)
>>47437840
>my homebrew
>>47437860
>9gag
>>47437258
PERTURABO IS GAY
HAIL DANTIOCH AND EMPEROR
>>47434842
You completely misintetpreted souls lore.
Fire is not life, fire is not good. Fire is disparity. Immortality didn't exist alongside fire. In fact, fire caused the death of the only immortal anf unchanging beings- the. Everylasting dragons.
Fire is the cause of everything shit in the souls series. It caused the death of dragons, Chaos, indirectly the Abyss. Dark wasn't even a bad thing, just stagnant.
>>47434296
So he is basically Yahweh.
>setting spans an entire planet
>has one religion and one pantheon
>>47438347
How big is the planet? What kind of terrain is it? Is it all connected by land?
I mean shit look at how big Christianity is, it spread nearly every damn where.
>>47438367
>Earth has one religion and one pantheon
oh you sweet summer child...
>>47438380
>>Earth has one religion and one pantheon
>Things that were never said for 100$
>>47433225
Read The Art of Not Being Governed. It talks about a region in SE Asia with a lot of those features (community land ownership, refugee population, massive geographical size - albeit crazy low population density) and is a pretty nifty premise for world building.
It's pretty naive in some of the correlations it builds towards, though. It falls for a variation of the "storable/transportable staple crops are necessary to advance states" memes and argues that people flee to shitty land and swidden as a defense against state formation. But in practice African swiddeners and American civs that had trouble with pack animals and roads were some of those most aggressively reliant on slave or corvee labor.
Still, if you follow up this book with Peasant Fires or Medieval Underworld, you could probably justify a Western variant.
>>47437240
Why don't you ask your local pastor?
>>47438457
I tip my fedora to you, fellow enlightened gentleman
>>47438001
I think it is implied that hollows or unformed men were also immortal. Being linked to the fire gives them humanity, but eventually that warmth is drained away from them until the host dies. It's only when the fire is weak and needs to be relinked that Hollows and undead start to return.
>god of fire should be evil
*cough*
>>47438470
If you smiled or chuckled then that's all I was looking for, making a comment like that.
>>47435791
In one setting I was playing in once there was a 'Mother of Monsters' type goddess who was despised and hated by the other gods. She had no husband and so slept around with the horrific creatures that shunned the light and birthed a brood of despised, wretched creatures that she help establish in the world.
All races of the earth saw her as a monster except humans.
She was their Mother Goddess.
>>47432661
Kaathe please go and stay go
>>47432661
My gods of elements are all the nature gods as well, with fire being more chaotic than evil. She destroys, yes, but to let new life grow. Chaotic, change, destruction.
>>47438614
Frampt pls also go.
>>47433225
>Perfect communist region is actaully a wasteland inhabited be a particularly twisted colour out of space
>>47438689
Well yeah, him too. They're in cahoots you know. Frampt exists to give the player an illusion of choice, so he thinks he's being the good guy, when really both serpents tell you to do something really really bad: unseal the abyss, then go and kill everyone who might have the capacity to reseal it. Whether you light your pitiful human soul on the bonfire is irrelevant, just a temporary bandage on a wound that's already festering.
>>47438656
So is my idea dumb /tg/?
