Why have Hades, Hecate and Ares an evil alignment in D&D?
>>47309321
Because the people doing those books were dumb.
Hades was straight LN, for example.
Because otherwise evil clerics would be unemployed
>>47309370
Y'know, aside from all that kidnapping, trickery, and unwarranted cruelty.
Aside from that, pretty stand up fella.
>>47309410
Zeus went around raping as an animal. Apollo cursed a woman just because she dared to say 'no.' Are they pegged as CE?
>>47309410
>kidnapping
Yeah he took Persephone, but given that he tried to treat her nicely rather than just rape the shit out of her makes him leagues better than CG Zeus
>trickery
Like all the other Gods, who are Good aligned
>unwarranted cruelty
Have no idea what you're talking about here
>>47309446
Zeus raped an animal?
>>47309410
For a Greek God, that's pretty Neutral.
>>47309446
>>47309476
>>47309502
That's why I said he's a stand up fella.
Probably the only really evil thing he did was punish Theseus for being a good friend, and he only did that because his wife's honor was at stake.
>>47309321
I'm going to go out on a limb here and opine that applying modern standards to ancient deities from a pre-ethical religion is kind of silly.
They cannot necessarily be construed as moral in any sense to begin with, and even if you do, it's better to judge it according to Ancient Greek Standards, which are going to be different, you know.
Of course, even by their standards some of them are total ratfucks, but exactly WHY sometimes varies from why we would say so.
This is also true in the bible. Like Sodom and Gomorrah. The worst thing the mob does in that scenario is be inhospitable to travelers, really. The fact that they want to sodomize them is also bad, but the particularly bad thing is violating guest right.
(Also something particularly shit heeled Walder Frey does in ASOIF, and he is getting a big dose of karma for that. Never mind turning his reputation to absolute shit and eternally relegating himself to "well he's a fucking traitor isn't he?" status. I mean, would you ever trust someone who did that? You can't trust someone like that.)
>>47309493
No, Zeus went around as an animal raping people, there's a difference anon
>>47309547
>The worst thing the mob does in that scenario is be inhospitable to travelers, really.
Holy fuck, you need to get smote.
>>47309410
Compared with Zeus, he's absolutely lovely fella and an upstanding citizen. Seriously, from all Greek gods, MAYBE only Hephaistos commited less shit (as in - none).
It's nothing more than early Christian reimaginery of every single fucking underworld god as Satan. And in most pagan religions, those were usually the only good guys, as they were governing the most important shit and nobody wants to have an awful guy above them for entire afterlife.
>>47309547
>This is also true in the bible. Like Sodom and Gomorrah. The worst thing the mob does in that scenario is be inhospitable to travelers, really. The fact that they want to sodomize them is also bad, but the particularly bad thing is violating guest right.
Not to mention that the people in that story who were deemed worthy enough to live was the guy who was about to send his daughters out to be raped and his daughters, who would later get their dad drunk and rape *him*.
It's one seriously fucked up story.
>>47309613
Welcome to the Abrahamic religion my friend, I hope you enjoy your stay.
>>47309547
>applying modern standards to ancient deities from a pre-ethical religion is kind of silly.
Nope, it's perfectly valid. Because modern standards won. You don't see any greek standards around anymore, so it's perfectly valid to twist them as modern society deems fit.
>>47309547
>The worst thing the mob does in that scenario is be inhospitable to travelers, really. The fact that they want to sodomize them is also bad, but the particularly bad thing is violating guest right.
Even God acknowledges that bum plummeting angels is a normal human reaction.
>>47309650
I bet you're the kind of person who thinks western standards are always right whenever people from the east don't follow them, am I right?
>>47309613
>who were deemed worthy enough to live was the guy who was about to send his daughters out to be raped and his daughters, who would later get their dad drunk and rape *him*.
In order to prevent the ANGELS from being sodomized to death. And since his daughters are the worst kind of whores you could imagine as illustrated later can we really blame him for that ?
>>47309493
AS an animal. AS.
>>47309694
I've seen enough shota to know where this is going.
Actually I haven't, but I can guess.
>>47309555
to be fair, i'd totally believe it if there was a greek story of zeus raping some animal. it's in character
>>47309599
He's still grim and unlikable as fuck, and was absolutely dreadful to mortals.
Also, keep in mind that there's a sharp difference between the religious versions of the Gods and the dramatic ones, with most of our knowledge being built around the theater portrayals that were often contradictory/humorous versions.
Zeus was the God of Justice, not of rape, Hera was the Goddess of Family, not of jealousy, and Hades was the Grim lord of the Dead, not the cool uncle who was the voice of sanity in a dysfunctional family sitcom.
It's sort of like how people five thousand years from now might discover a DVD of Dogma, and imagine we worshiped Alanis Morissette.
>>47309650
The greek knew perfectly well that their gods were asshats as in dickholes like humans can be. That's kinda the point of the gods having human traits to explain the clusterfuck that life and nature are. Even by THEIR standards ares was literally a bully and a coward who'd flew at the first of something strong enough to hurt him yet would make everyone's life a misery just because he would. (And Aphrodite was the worst kind of cheating whore you could imagine). They knew all along their deities were with flaws.
>>47309746
>He's still grim and unlikable as fuck, and was absolutely dreadful to mortals.
Because Hade was autistic as fuck. But he is the judge of where mortal souls go to in the afterlife he has to be autistic in order to do his job.
>>47309737
>Actually I haven't
You don't fool anyone here anon.
>>47309744
Yeah, it's in character. It would also be in character for one of the goddesses to turn a women into an animal,and than Zeus rapes them when no ones looking. Fucking Greeks man, gotta love them and gotta be disturbed by them.
>>47309746
>He's still grim and unlikable as fuck, and was absolutely dreadful to mortals.
Cut down Hercules intake, will ya?
>>47309790
Let me guess.Palutena joins in for a threesome?
>>47309746
>I know shit about Greek myths
>>47309790
Please, stop.
In fact, just generally fuck off.
>>47309790
I prefer my effeminite males to be fully grown traps, thank you very much!
>>47309321
Hecate was the goddess of the bad sort of witchcraft and was strait up considered wicked by most classical & hellenic greeks. Typically only invoked her name to curse people. [spoilers]There were a lot of cheap lead tablets buried at crossroads that specifically ask Hecate to fuck up some rival. You could go to your local witch, buy a blank Hecate curse, fill in the names, and then bury it.[/spoilers]
The other two should be neutral or good.
>>47309746
>It's sort of like how people five thousand years from now might discover a DVD of Dogma, and imagine we worshiped Alanis Morissette.
>implying the '90s/early 00s didn't fucking worship alanis
>>47309599
I read somewhere once that the greeks were also afraid of him and wouldn't really talk about him much.
Not because he was evil or anything, just because he was the god of dead people.
>>47309321
I am mildly annoyed that people always leave out that he is also the god of having shit loads of money.
>>47309870
I DESTROYED WHOLE CITIES FOR LESS, YOUNG BOY !
>>47309842
I'm just explaining what my professors explained to me.
The Greeks were pious, but the dramatic versions of their Gods were still several shades different from what they actually worshiped, with different traits emphasized. This is particularly evident with how different Hera is, with her venerated version being a great and powerful goddess of wisdom and protection, while her dramatic version is just the butt of every joke.
>>47309879
No, she was considered dangerous by them. She was actually worshiped as an atropopaist, literally a diety who warded evil away. She could be invoked for vengeance and revenge, yes, and that is what made her 'dagerous', but she was never considered 'evil'.
>>47310023
Like a big divine gargoyle.
>>47309746
>He's still grim and unlikable as fuck
Because he was shafted by his older brothers, Zeus and Poseidon.
Hades did nothing wrong.
>>47310023
Because no god was considered plain evil. Unless you start to start to take into account the sisters of vengeance death and fury and shit like that which still exist nowadays in the hindu religion because of the shared indo european myths.
>>47309940
What's the point of all that money when there's nothing to spend it on?
>>47310065
There's a reason they called her the bitch goddess and the three faced goddess, man.
>>47310114
I guess if he thought you were cool he could give you a big sack of gold.
Its not a helmet that turns you invisible or a shield that shoots fire but lots of gold is always nice.
>>47309321
Ares was a punk bitch that ran when he was losing and supported winning teams.
>>47309543
I mean, he even set up visitation times for his mother-in-law to visit her daughter, that's pretty cool.
>>47310186
>actually wanting parent-in-laws to visit
Holy shit he is lawful.
>>47310186
Reluctantly, and only because her mother-in-law threatened to kill the entire world, and Zeus had to step in.
Hell, Zeus commanded him to return her, but Hades argued about pomegranate seeds, condemning the world to the cycle of the seasons instead of just endless growth and fertility.
Now that I think about it, he's a bit of a fuck.
>>47310155
Diomedes was just too real man. Anyone with any sense would run from him.
>>47310257
To be fair when your two powers are having lots of gold and control of death and the afterlife, you are going to leverage the shit out of being the death god when your dick of a brother tries to make you do shit you dont want to.
>>47310257
>only because her mother-in-law threatened to kill the entire world
wanna know whose problem this isn't? the guy who hangs out all day with dead folks
wanna know whose problem that is? all the other gods obsessed with those sweet mortal women
>>47310412
Couldn't Hades literally just let everyone she killed just go back to being alive?
Its really a non problem for him.
>>47310412
At the point where you are willing to screw over your entire family, the entire world, and to condemn everything to the bleak existence that is your domain, you qualify as evil, even if you let up a little and just condemn the world to a period of suffering and hardship that renews itself each year.
Still, can't really blame him all that much, because he has the best waifu in mythology.
Also, can't believe this hasn't been posted yet.
https://youtu.be/TUBeFTuUKG8?list=PLC47C58748772D11B
>>47310260
That guy is Kratos and doomguy in the same body. He bitchslapped aphrodite without giving a single fuck.
>>47310514
He fucked up two gods in a single day and the other one had to blind him repeatedly while fleeing on a chariot to get away.
Also technically Kratos is Kratos since he is an actual god. I think he might be the god of strength?
>>47310257
>>47310312
Aphrodite being the whore and cunt she is making Hades fall in love because she was mad someone rational enough to no fuck with that crap wasn't somehow under her influence is the cause of that whole mess. Blame the goddess of slutiness and soap opera for that mess.
She also probably had a dick at will.
>>47310503
that seems to really be letting demeter off the hook for going nuclear for literally a pretty damn standard infraction
>>47310571
>Also technically Kratos is Kratos since he is an actual god.
I actually totally forgot about that.
>>47309547
Uh, that makes no sense whatsoever.
> applying modern standards to ancient deities from a pre-ethical religion is kind of silly.
"Pre-ethical religion"? What? As far as I can tell, no civilization before the ancient Greeks has any recorded dialogue or discussions on ethical matters. The Greeks essentially invented ethics as far as this goes and there's a reason the Greeks are regarded as being the fathers of western philosophy. Almost all discussions of Greek ethics in some way referenced their religion and ethical matters were always compared to anecdotes from religion. Ethical issues regarding the gods were debated on. Greek philosophers criticized their gods on many occasions and came up with their own ethical codes. You're just an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
>They cannot necessarily be construed as moral in any sense to begin with
Yes they can, for reasons mentioned above. Do you think that Greeks just heard about the gods doing these awful and strange things and thought they were perfectly okay, that nobody at all felt revulsion or disdain for them?
Ever heard of virtue ethics, stoicism, hedonism? Ever even considered that philosophers such as Aristotle didn't actually take all these myths at face value but instead saw them as metaphors and fables, and at the very least fanciful and unrealistic?
The entire Greek creation myth for the beginning of the universe can be used to metaphorically represent the Big Bang. Aristotle's philosophies and ethics survive today and dominated western thinking for two thousand years. He came up with the concept of the primordial mover, the first cause, which was used to answer the argument of infinite regression when relating to God.
>>47309650
Modern standards descend from their standards. In fact, their philosophies and ethics are still around, moron. If you don't know what they're talking about, shut the fuck up.
>>47309697
Greek standards ARE western standards.
>>47309879
You played the Jason and the Argonauts game and suddenly think you understand Greek mythology, right?
>>47309913
Well yes, worshiping the deity of the underworld is quite morbid.
>>47310760
Greek philosophy also greatly influenced muslim thinkers before the whole area turned into a shitfest of wahabits.
>>47310066
He was the oldest. He was suppose to rule the gods but he drew the shortest straw.
>>47310066
Hades wasn't the shafted one though. Hades loved his job, and liked the fact that he had control over most of the world's wealth. Poseidon was the shafted one, he got last pick and was quite spiteful towards Zeus because of it.
>>47310579
That's Hermaphordite you absolute pleb.
>D&D Alignments
>Every once making any fucking sense
Choose0.
>>47309493
zeus raped everything and everyone
>>47309410
Zeus actually gave him permission to take Persphone, as is a father's right in ancient Greece. That's why he told all the other gods not to tell Demeter where she went.
>>47309650
Modern standards are an invention of Western society and they're going to die with Western society.
>>47310579
And again Love is the cause of all suffering.
>>47309321
Because of stupid reinterpretation of Hades as evil dude. A hefty dose of early Christian imaginery as Satan combined with modern fear of dead and dying et voila - Hades as percieved nowdays. Has pretty much nothing with the deity Greeks worshipped.
>>47310464
He had a fucking job to do and that job was look after the dead unwanted by the dude-bros and hyper bitch gods. His job was not "be the cosmic undo button of other peoples fuck ups".
>>47310579
This
>>47309370
as always, first post is best post.
>>47310773
>Greek standards ARE western standards.
Yes, because we are all ultrapatriarchal gays that treat women, children and slaves as animals.
We literally took few bits out of all Greek standards you fucking cunt. And those bits were mostly theoretical discussion by philosophers. I advice you to read few of thems, like Plato and Aristotle to realise how little we took from them and how fucking horrible was their world-view.
>>47312212
dear fucking god, that's a stupid haircut
the fringe isn't even symetrical
>>47314899
>Wanting symmetry
>euro-centric beauty standards
>enforcing male expectations of appearance
>Not accepting him/her/other as the super special and flawless snowflake that they are
Patriarchy detected.
>>47309572
No, in the Bible it is heavily insinuated that is the worst they wanted to do. Lot himself offers his daughters so they could leave his guests be.
Guest rights (and the obligations that go with them) were a huge thing in some early societies.
>>47309709
They were said to be virginal at the time.
>>47309446
>Apollo cursed a woman just because she dared to say 'no'
And not just any woman, but a woman sworn to be a virgin in his name.
>>47314968
In the middle east at that time, and I could be very wrong about this, rape seemed to have been seen as a means of asserting dominance.
Hence the Greek "it's only gay if you are getting fucked".
By offering his daughters Lot was basically saying to the mob "you are weak, these are more your speed, now leave before you get hurt". Or maybe not.
>>47309842
>belittles knowledge of myths and legends
Not everyone has to be an ignorant cocksucking fuckwit like you anon.
>>47310088
Even the erinyes were converted to protective deities, and by a matricide no less, if you take Aeschylus' plays into account
>>47310257
>If you eat anything while you're here, you have to stay
>*eats things*
>Ok now you have to stay
>WTF NO I DONT WANT TO MOOOOOOOOOOMMMM
>>47309446
>Zeus went around raping as an animal
Daily reminder he managed to rape woman while disguised as "golden rain". Greeks really had weird sexuality
>>47310412
Best post
>>47310760
Aside from China, who were conducting written bureaucratic testing reviews before the Greeks figured out math.
>>47311887
And then fathered a child on Persephone while she was married to Hades (Melinoe).
Zeus was a complete dick.
>>47309822
>>47309842
He's accurate. The greeks didn't like Hades. They avoided saying his name (they called him "the wealthy one" as jewels were dug from beneath the earth i.e. his realm, this is where his roman name Pluto comes from) and averted their eyes when making sacrifices to him.
The greeks feared death just like everybody else.
>>47315790
Shhhh. Don't you know it's either specific type of nit-picking ethnocentrism, or doesn't count?It never cease to amaze me how much people are praising "Greek roots" without even realising how little we took from them
>>47315830
>averted their eyes when making sacrifices to him
That what all fucking ancient people did during sacrifices, regardless of religion and culture, you stupid cunt.
And Greek didn't like their gods in general, aside maybe Athenians constantly wanking about how much Mary Sue Athena is. Which is kind of ironic, given they themselves created such fucked up pantheon.
>>47315863
Now you're just a historical revisionist. Only sacrifices made to Hades and Hecate was one meant to avert your eyes. For sacrifices made to Zeus you raise your head.
The greeks loved their gods, but recognized them as flawed, humanlike beings.
And Hades they feared and considered him the god least friendly to mankind. The Iliad says as much.
>>47315034
Wow, knowing he was willing to let his own daughters be raped by a mob doesn't make me feel bad that his wife got turned into salt and his daughters ended up raping him after getting him drunk.
>>47309410
In his defense, he was mind controlled prior to the kidnapping.
>unwarranted cruelty
Welcome to Greek Myth 101,take a seat.
>>47315923
Or he wasn't offering them anything so much as he was taking the piss.
>>47315830
>just like everybody else.
FUCK YOU.
SOON I WILL FEAST IN VALHALLA AND GET MY VALKYRIE WAIFU!
>>47309770
Do you remember the time Ares got kidnapped as a child by a couple of giants, who put him in a jar, and was just left there for years by the other Gods because they didn't care.
>>47316068
You have a hoard of horny rapists knocking on your door and your first instinct is to offer up your daughters?
Even if it was in jest, it's still pretty fucked up.
>>47316077
Norse folk were fine with dying in battle, but scared to shit of dying anywhere else.
>>47316170
Rather, the ones who went into battle were scared as shit to die anywhere else. Average Joeson the peaceful farmer wouldn't particularly enjoy Valhalla in the first place.
Hel's realm wasn't that bad as long as you don't mind fish every day for the rest of time.
>>47316204
And weren't a murderer, adulterer, or oathbreaker.
Then you go to Nastrond where it rains acid and everybody gets gnawed on by Nidhogg. Forever.
>>47316258
Well yeah, but those guys are dicks. Just don't be a dick and you're good.
>>47315900
>Accuses of historical revisionism
>Does one himself
>>47316532
I've only seen this picture posted alongside the worst shitposts.
Is that your intention? To have that picture be the "Ignore this post" default?
>>47315830
>The greeks feared death just like everybody else.
>Everybody else
Not only Greeks didn't exactly fear death or dying, but from all ancient cultures, most of them didn't gave a flipping fuck about that stuff either. You know why?
Because average life expectancy was around 40.
Early Christianity also didn't gave a fuck about dying, hence the whole martyrdom obsession. And you know why? Because they percieved death as liberation.
The whole "we are afraid of dying" is a modern, post-war thing that came with the packet of suddenly on one hand conquering different diseases and problems faced by humankind within a single generation and on the other still dying out of old age, regardless of all that progress.
So please, keep your bullshit for yourself.
>>47316553
>Can't face reality
>Starts nit-picking attatched picture
What next? You gonna start rambling about grammar?
>>47316577
Bull fucking shit. Your "average life expectancy" accounts for deaths before the ages of 1-6, the average male in antiquity could survive to 60-70 without being some surprising thing.
>>47316651
Do you even see the difference between "could survive" and "average life expectancy"?
I don't think so
>>47316859
The difference is that anyone who made it past their infancy was expected to live a lot longer than fucking 40.
The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
>>47309321
Because Christianity and other religions that overthrew old Greek traditions.
No, seriously. Hecate being the goddess of witchcraft, poisons and somesuch was of course associated with witches and thus she was evil. Ares was quite frankly evil as all he cared for was slaughter and the art of war (i mean his worshipers feared him so much that they had to chain up Ares' statues out of the fear of them getting up and killing peeps) and there is also the fact that Ares was constantly foaming from the mouth and picking fights with other gods. Hades is wrongly thought to be the god of death (As he was nothing but the king of the underworld) and he was also associated with money and banks, which embody greed, thus he was considered evil. Plus he was a grumpy asshole because Zeus more or less forced him to have the shit end job of the major gods.
>>47316651
Different anon, but there is a reason why in so many different cultures around the globe being 50 accounts traditionally as "old and wise". In case of malaria being a thing in that place - it usually drops down to 40.
So yeah, people died like flies not more than a century ago from trivial things. And they still do in undeveloped countries, where average life expectancy is still around mid 40s.
Tell me - how many times you had some serious inflammation in your life? Any, even minor, medical procedures required? Or simply having a steep fever?
You would be long dead without access to modern medicine. Not to mention abundant food, so you probably don't even know what true starvation really is. Violent wars, low crime fighting rates, civil disorder...
If anything, people simply don't understand how huge difference the tiny things make in their life between utter misery and death and just shrugging. In a way, we already reached the contempt from "The People of Sand and Slag" and we didn't really go all that high-tech.
>>47316924
>Was expected
You were expected to live till mid 30s. That was expected. Anything after - just a bonus. Why the hell you think Romans promised their soldiers to settle down after hitting 40? Because chances were - they will be all dead by that time.
Greco roman mythology was ALL evil gods. They pretty much turned "life sucks, deal with it" into a religion. Sacrifices and so forth were meant to appease the gods so that, maybe, your village wouldn't get smote because Zeus felt like it.
>>47316927
>>47316953
Those, even if I seriously consider them to be samefaggotry
>>47316966
Not samefagging though
>>47316924
>Being this tier retarded
Seriously anon, check any given third-world shithole how is their life expectancy doing. Sure, people sometimes survive to old age, but those make peripherial demographics, while entire countries run on people below 35.
>>47316928
Because 50 IS old enough to be wise. Also, you're equating barbarian tribes where disease ruled to the greek city states, here.
>>47316945
You're thinking of anglo-saxons maybe. The romans regularly made it to 70. The greeks weren't far behind.
You see, the civilized folk popularized the usage of soap and the distribution of clean water, which causes a huge spike in long term life expectancy. (Which is a lot different than grant total life expectancy, because it excludes everyone who dies in the short term.)
>>47316651
>Could survive
>Could
Here is the key. In theory, a hunter-gatherer can survive till 90s, until he/she will be unable to chew anymore.
That doesn't mean their life expectancy is above 40-something
>>47317001
>>47317028
Yet again, you're equating unwashed tribal folk with the fucking greeks.
>>47309547
>greek pantheism
>a pre-ethical religion
just gonna have that stand there.
>>47317017
>Soap
Don't want to break it for you, but it was developed by Celts, the "filthy barbarians" you mock. Romans didn't adopt soap for washing up until 3rd century AD.
And I will riddle you this - how does bathing in the same basin full of non-chlorinated water by dozens of people make it good for higiene?
Dial down pop-culture and read some book. Or few dozens of them, desu.
>>47317072
And now you're spewing hollow bullshit. Soap dates back to ancient babylon. The creation of it was detailed by Zosimus Alchemista in 300 BC.
>>47317036
>He thinks /tg/ is a single person
>He thinks about some unspecified unwashed tribalistic barbarians as opposed to highly-cultured and well-mannered Greeks
Boy, oh boy... Where do you take all of that bullshit? Hollywood is not doing sword and sandals in decades, so I doubt it's from films.
>>47317091
Still doesn't make Romans use it for washing. They were styling hairs with that. Kind of like modern hair gel.
>>47309321
Because they were regarded as dark gods in real life - praying to war death and magic was not seen as good
Remember hbo Rome and the gods below?
>>47317017
>>47317036
>B-but they had culture!
>T-they washed!
And barbarians didn't washed, because that's what generic fantasy taught you, right?
If anything, Greeks were one of the filthiest people around ancient world and it was a norm to have an epidemic outbreak in Greek quarter in cities mainly populated by other cultures
>>47317094
History may not be cut and dry as "greeks and everyone else" but the greeks were indeed more advanced both in personal health and longevity.
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/life_history/age-specific-mortality-lifespan-bad-science-2009.html
>>47317108
The romans used soap in combination wtih a strigil for self-cleaning purposes. You continue to spout nonsense.
>>47317091
And now you're spewing hollow bullshit.
Many things were developed separetely.
>>47317141
>You continue to spout nonsense
Read fucking Pliny at least. If not modern accounts, then the ones from contemporary sources
>Inb4 those don't count
They count even more, since they were written by people who actually lived through day-to-day life back then, describing it in great detail.
>>47317138
Lovely strawman argument, there. Of course everyone bathed, but the greeks who prided personal appearance bathed more often than the gaels or the saxons.
Don't think that just because they loved washing and combing their hair that they knew how to properly dress a wound.
>>47317141
>Random internet article without any sources or quotations
>Aside of the Bible
Fucking kill yourself
>>47317169
Why the fuck you keep jumping for Saxons, really? They weren't even a thing long after Greeks cease to be revelant.
And you have audacity to call people out on strawmanning?
>>47309321
>Why have Hades, Hecate and Ares an evil alignment in D&D?
well, in Greek mythology Hecate and Ares were both pretty damn evil. Hades keeps being type-cast as evil because of his role in greek mythology is vaguely similar to that of Lucifur in Christian beliefs so writers keep bolting his personality onto Hades when they are really nothing alike EXCEPT for their job description. Hades is creepy to be sure but he is also fair and just, Lucifer, on the other hand, is vain and the embodiment of evil.
>>47317160
Whether or not they used soap specifically the romans still did take their bathing quite seriously. It's irrelevant to the point of their cleanliness whether soap specifically is involved.
>>47317180
For ease of reference. It's not any big importance.
>>47309410
You do know a lot of gods and heroes worshipped by greeks were murderers, thieves and rapists?
>>47317169
>Acuse of strawman
>Keep rolling in straw all the time
Mate, it was YOU who brought up Greeks, Saxons and truly ass-pulled examples.
The entire point here was how average life expectancy drastically increased within last two generations and you keep rolling in some bullshit about how Greeks had it before.
Who cares about Greeks, aside you and the morons arguing with you? The point is completely different and your defense does not apply to it. You simply don't fucking understand what "average life expectancy" is and confuse it with "few blocks able to live pass certain age".
It's about entire fucking population, you moron! When even a homeless bum lives till his late 60s, then you can call that high average life expectancy. Otherwise you have a random selection of specimens that survived by this or that chance, randomly, for long enough to cross the threshold.
Check out modern-day Africa. Where the ALE is around 42-45. Because stuff like malnutrition, common disease, poor infrastructure and what not are a thing.
And they are STILL miles ahead of what even the most advanced ancient civs ever had.
>>47317197
>Hades keeps being type-cast as evil because of his role in greek mythology is vaguely similar to that of Lucifur in Christian beliefs so writers keep bolting his personality
Anon, it's the other way around. Christians reimagined all pagan gods that had anything to do with underworld, death, magic or whatnot into representations of Satan and thus turning them into evil personified.
>>47317226
This entire fucking thread is about the greeks. The entire point is that the greeks, who did live long lives, feared and disliked Hades as a representation of the end of life. An anon contested this, saying that since they expected to die before 40, they didn't actually fear death.
This is stupid. The usage of average in this case is deliberately misleading. If they lived past childhood they expected to live far longer than 40. The average is therefore irrelevant and a complete misdirection of logic.
Reminder that not only did Hades not go out of his way to shit on people it only took the tiniest hint of a sob story to get him to make an exception, to the point that it got taken advantage of when Sisyphus told his wife to just leave his body in a ditch when he dies so that he'd be able to get permission to go haunt her and then, surprise surprise, refuses to come back until he was straight up dragged back.
>>47317238
That's not the opposite of what I said, that's exactly what I just said.
Are you even paying attention?
>>47317238
No that's exactly what the anon said.
>>47317250
>I don't understand what ALE is
>Hence it's misleading and intentionally set trap
No, it simply means you are a moron. The original anon started right off the bat what he means as ALE and you keep dodging it with shitty remarks.
Face it - you don't understand how basic population statistics works and clinge to made-up shit just to stir some shit up for the sake of it.
"Misdirectin of logic" my ass.
>>47317226
>And they are STILL miles ahead of what even the most advanced ancient civs ever had.
Just going to go on the internet and tell lies?
Modern day africans don't even farm as well as the greeks managed to.
>>47317267
>>47317274
>his role in greek mythology is vaguely similar to that of Lucifur
This is not the same as "Christians turned Hades into Lucifer" analogue
Especially since his original, pre-reimagination role had NOTHING to do with what is attributed to Lucifer.
>>47317226
Whether you're including infant mortality in that life expectancy is actually quite important in this context, because infants are notoriously unlikely to have a fear of death and especially not going to be influencing the cultural perspective on death gods.
>>47317286
It's the logic that follows after, you utter buffoon. The implication that people expected to die before 40 doesn't follow and is utterly invalid. The greeks wouldn't allocate the death of their young as a reason to expect to die before 40, so that does not fucking follow. It is a non sequitur. It is wrong.
>>47317291
>Greeks
>Good farmers
They were barely using two-field rotation. Literally ANYONE was better than Greeks in this field. And even copycat Romans, who adopted that system, managed to use it with better efficiency.
What are you? Modern day Greek sitting in internet and trying to be revelant, instead paying your debt?
>>47317302
They're underworld figures in charge of dead people. Not TOO similar, but then the post freaking said "VAGUELY similar"
>>47317313
>Still going for "b-but children don't count"
They are one of the reasons why your ALE is low, you fucking moron
>>47317336
Man, has anyone in history ever had as overinflated an opinion of themselves as the ancient Greeks?
>>47317344
But they don't factor into when people expect to die. No one but you is talking about ALE.
>>47317337
Please tell me what the hell it has to do with Lucifer?
Because you apparently was thinking about folk interpretation of Satan (not the same) as the ruler of Hell.
Which has nothing to do with Hades job as the ruler of the underworld. If anything, his job was akin to folk interpretation of St. Peter, standing at heaven's gate.
>>47317344
They're a critical reason, and that's why you're using data to mislead. Because that wouldn't influence the greek perspective on death and their patron god of the dead.
>>47317349
I bring you Anglophones.
There is a joke running on among academicians in my country that roughtly translates into "What English lost on the battlefield, they will regain in history textbooks". And by English it means English-speakers.
>>47317369
>HURR
>YOU ARE WRONG
>I AM RIGHT
>DURR
>>47317363
His ACTUAL job is unimportant, and again Lucifer and Hades not having much to do with each other is a PLUS to the original argument because the statement was VAGUE similarity. That means, not very similar at all!
>>47317381
But muh Agincourt!
>>47316156
It was a fucked up time by modern standards.
![[D]escartes.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rhH3ieq.jpg "[D]escartes.jpg")
>>47317394
>can't contest the point in any way
>gotta meme
Now you're gonna say I haven't contested the point, in a classic DARVO to pretend you've won a meaningless anonymous argument.
>>47317397
Nah, more like revisionism of own history, especially right after it.
Stuff like naming things "Great Retreat", which just with their name imply it wasn't a panicked rout from superior force, but a tactically-chosen decision to move into previously observed positions.
For everyone else it's an obvious propaganda, especially if they are called differently in other languages. Anglo historians just love doing that in their texts.Which I personally find as one of the main reasons why modern-day Americans are so absolutely and completely unable to admit defeat, loosing or being bested.
>>47317409
No, I'm going to simply stop posting, because this goes nowhere and I don't feel like wasting more time on shit that won't be resolved anyway.
This is part of the Greek "heritage". A Socratean myth that with enough arguments you can actually convince the other side of discussion to your stance and if not, it means they are simply too dumb to get your point.
The sad truth is that Socrates was full of shit and it never works out, regardless of arguments used and intelligence of any of the participants, because people don't sway their stance just like that.
Here, take this patato medal of winning internet arguments, I'm at this point simply tired with this entire charade, because it goes like this at this point
>You!
>No, you!
>No, you!
>No, you!
>>47317460
More like
>Average life expectancy is misleading
>But much ALE
>Here is specifically WHY its misleading
>But much ALE
>>47317460
What this anon is trying to explain, albeit in an abrasive fashion (but you are in 4chan, you should expect it), is this :
-Culture, myths and legend are defined and written by adults and only by adults
-Because it takes into account infant mortality, which is drastically high in non-modern countries, ALE is not a viable metric, as it shifts the average life expectancy of *adults* towards lower number.
What mattered to the eyes of the ancient greek people for defining their vision of death was the average life expectancy *once you attained adulthood*, which means you disregard infant mortality, which in turns means you only take into account the average age of death of people *once they turned adult*, which was higher than ALE shows.
This is a mean of arguing against the fact that greek didn't fear death because they died young. The point is to say that greek didn't die particularly young if they made it to their twenties.
And because only the adult greek get a say in defining their culture and mindset about death, the argument "they died younger and therefore didn't fear death as much" is invalid.
Anyhow, this is a weak argument anyway since people fear death as a rule, no matter where they're from. It's called survival instinct, and culture can only override it so far.
tl;dr : you are a dumb faggot for not following anon's logic, which is sound.
>>47310022
Careful there. /tg/ doesn't like logic. Too many autistic manboys.
>>47317400
Why do they call it "the good book" though?
George R.R. Martin wishes his series was as edgy as the bible.
>>47309321
Because modern fantasy doesn't give a shit about keeping true to their source material and just want catchy names of established brands to smack on top of their vaguely described archetypes.
>>47309599
Hephaestus tried to rape Athena, so Hades is still coming out ahead.
>>47317846
"The Good Book" usually refers to the New Testament and the emphasis is always put on the Gospels.
The official stance of the Catholic Church on the old Testament is "most of this shit never happened and the shit what did happen needs to be taken with a grain of salt the size of a cow".
>>47317986
He did?
>>47318069
Yes, but she possessed the magic of teleport hacks and got away.
Supposedly Hephaestus came anyway (despite raping nothing?), and his seed fell to the earth, eventually growing into Erichthonius.
>>47318103
Well, he was a cripple, right? Then pic related
>>47318103
I read that he had her in the clinch, but she managed to fend him off well enough that he rubbed himself off on her thigh rather than managing to penetrate at all, and she wiped it off with a rag and discarded it, rather than it just falling to the ground.
>>47310503
IIRC, Persephone got pretty into her new life. Turns out Hades was interested in making her an actual ruler and companion instead of just a fucktoy. "Queen of the Underworld" isn't such a bad gig, especially when you didn't really have any friends on the surface world.
Also as someone with a weakness for gothy chicks, I approve of based Hades' tastes.
>>47318334
>That filename
There's an album I love called Hadestown that's a musical re-imaging of the myth of Orpheus as a western, with Hades as a kind of tyrannical mining baron, and the whole thing is fantastic. I strongly recommend it.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC47C58748772D11B
>>47318334
Here's a twist you'll like.
In the Mysteries of Demeter, Hecate and Persephone are very close friends; Hecate is her guide to and from the underworld. Hecate has lanternbearing nymphs to light their way.Hecate is also considered the Maiden, Persephone the Mother, and Demeter the Crone in that mystery. So you have two young women and a bevy of definitively sexy younger women traipsing through the underworld together a week at a time, of the Orpheus legend is to be believed.
>>47318334
Yeah, honestly, Hades and Persephone have the best relationship in the Myths.
Basically the only problem is Persephone's mother, who completely loses it every time her little darling goes to spend time with her husband, and plunges the world into winter. But Hades is willing to let his wife spend half her time with her mother, AND he's the most loyal of the Greek gods.
It's pretty clear that Persephone likes him, and the whole "kidnapping" thing is just to get away from her mother.
>Sorry, mom, you know I'd love to just live with you forever, but he just pulled me into his chariot and carried me off, what could I do
>Yeah, thanks for the, uh, "rescue," but I ate some food at his place so I have to stay with him forever, doesn't mean I don't love you Mom!
>Ok, ok, I'll spend summers at your place.
>>47309446
>Zeus went around raping as an animal.
You know exactly how those stories came into the world:
>"Daugther!? What the fuck are you doing? Is this our bull/horse/dog/roc/nigger? Why are you fucking animals??"
>"Stop dad! It is NOT like that! You see...this is Zeus!"
>>47310503
Actually, kidnapping the bride has been a common thing in ancient tribes since way back.
Part of the idea is actually that since tribes are naturally insular and wary of outsiders, someone willingly coming in is obviously ALL OF THE SUSPECTS.
But this new girl was forced away; heartlessly kidnapped (probably after telling the boy where to pick her up, when, and what she'll be not wearing), there's nothing she can do about it, she's just some random victim, therefore if she agrees to join the tribe there's not going to be a problem.
Likewise, mommy and daddy don't always want to let their kids leave the nest, especially their little girls. Whoops, too late, she's our war prisoner now, and they're already married.
>>47316156
To be fair, the way they were probably acting given what they did not long after, he was probably thinking "it's them* or me!"
*them being the rapists this time!
>>47318482
>Put your clothes on and ~OHMYGAWD you're pregnant!!!
>Uhhh.... *counts back a while, not sure if it was the blacksmith's son or the blacksmith or the weaver's husband or that blind guy down the hill or those twelve soldiers that thought she was a whore
>SEE? Just like I said! Zeus!
>>47318444
The kidnapping of Persephone was basically Hades' dinner and a movie to Zeus's Netflix and chill.and as much as I hate tumblr there is some pretty fucking adorable art of these two
>>47309321
Something that's been touched on, but not actually mentioned, is how over time Hades/Pluto and Lucifer became conflated with one another.
Part of it was that Hades was a grim caretaker of the Underworld, and Christianity grew out of a combination of Jewish and Greek culture.
Much much later, it was more acceptable to use Hades as a stand in for the Devil in fiction, so you wouldn't get in trouble with censors and other authorities. Unfortunately, Hades and the Devil have become inseparable in the popular culture, and so:
Hades, Lord of the Underworld = Lucifer/the Devil, Exiled Ruler of Hell.
It's dumb. I don't like it, but what can you do about it, other than ignore the alignments presented in D&D? If you were running an actual ancient Hellenic, swords and sandals style game, you'd probably just do away with alignment anyway, and use the portrayal of the gods from myth.
>>47319358
>Something that's been touched on, but not actually mentioned
Literally third part of this thread is about it, you sperg. If only you've bothered to read it first, post later...
>>47318444
You know... I'm stealing this for next year of Literature classes. Best way to explain things to teens the way they will got interested.
>>47311386
That's Aphroditus you mongrel. Not the same deity you heathen.
>>47319358
Lucifer, by the way, is not even once depicted as the ruler of anything in the actual Bible. The misconception of him being the king of hell is derived from Paradise Lost. Hell is a prison, not a kingdom.
>>47319476
No shit. Blame popular culture.
>>47315790
>Mid Tang Dynasty
>Roughly the 6th century
>Before greeks figured out math
Nigger please.
>>47319499
More like folklore. This shit is much older than popculture or Paradise Lost. Friend of mine did her Masters about the imaginery for Satan in high medieval iconography and it was already a thing back then.
Which comes from the way missionaries were handling non-Christian believes upon prosethylising - trying to turn all gods into false ones, most suitably tied with something evil from Christian imaginery. Few centuries later you've got situation when everyone is assuming Hell is "ruled" and by nobody else than Lucifer.
>>47316859
Solon in Herodotus, in his wisdom, mentions 70 as a good age to die - not too young and not to old. This implies that it was not unheard of, and that deaths some three decades earlier were something unusual.
>>47319522
>Thinking Tang REFORM of imperial exam was the moment of implementation
Different anon, but it was a thing since early Han, you mong. Meaning roughtly the same time as Greeks were struggling with math.
This is a general reminder that Hades is just a dude with a critical, but thankless job, a wife he cares for very much, an obnoxious, overbearing step-mother, and a dog named Spot.
>>47319547
>That means whatever I make it mean
Here, FTFY
>>47319565
I mean mother-in-law, not step-mother, fuck
>>47319544
Folklore is a part of popular culture. Santa Claus being the prime example.
But yes, the accumulated bits of re-Christian belief informed the popular ideas about Lucifer, despite there being no authority behind those ideas.
It's the same reason they canonized pre-Christian gods into saints (and about a decade ago, got rid of most of those): they needed to get people to convert, and they were willing to bend their own religion over backwards to do it.
>>47319610
Well, ask Jesuits what is the most efficient way of converting people. They will all tell you the same - by adopting their culture, living in it for few years and then start bending elements of it to fit into Catholic frame. Not only works wonders, but provides actual neofites, instead of just people who's king or rules or whoever else take baptism to gain political support of outside force.And of course in it's eternal glory and wisdom the counter-reformation movement axed all of that, stipulating that only Latin and only pure forms of worship - guess how it worked for Amazon tribes and people in South-East Asia and China.
>>47319556
>Thinking the imperial exam was some sort of super difficult math test about nuclear fission
It was a glorified recitation by earth of confucius' texts.
>>47319808
>Thinking
I don't need to think what it was, I already know that from fucking school. And the original anon already pointed it out in his post, you mong
But sure, why not do some shitlifting just for the sake of it, right?
>>47309410
And being famous for switching sides constantly during the Trojan War for shits and giggles. Ares is Chaotic as fuck.
>>47319808
The exam under Tang was in fact a pretty difficult test that indeed checked also Math skills and practical knowledge right next to Confucian classics. It didn't last long in such form, but still, it was you who brought up Tang dynasty into equation
>>47319865
That post was about Hades, not Ares
>>47309321
Poor publicists.
>>47309321
>Why have Hades, Hecate and Ares an evil alignment in D&D?
MEANWHILE IN THE D&D HEAD OFFICE
"So, Hades was the god of the underworld, right?"
"Yeah."
"Cool, so he's the Greek version of the Devil."
"What, no he-"
"And Zeus is the god with the big white beard and lives in the sky, so he's the good one, like the Greek version of God, right. Cool."
"Greek version of- no. It's noth-"
*Leaves the room without listening.*
>>47310246
There's a reason you get him to judge the dead
>>47319859
>I don't need to think what it was, I already know that from fucking school.
So you know that the exam at the same time the greek "struggled" with math was just a big recitation of confucius yet you lie like a little bitch, kek.
>>47319891
>Tang
>TANG
Nigger there is a 8 century gap don't try to act clever when you aren't.
>>47320858
Another anon - nobody gives a fuck. Thanks for killing the thread with your autism
>>47309476
>Yeah he took Persephone, but given that he tried to treat her nicely rather than just rape the shit out of her makes him leagues better than CG Zeus
Never mind the fact that Zeus was her father and gave him permission, which means by the customs of Ancient Greece the abduction was more of a wedding ceremony...
>>47311264
It isn't specified who had the "worst" of the three. In book 15 of the Iliad, which provides the passage about drawing lots that you're referencing, Poseidon reacts poorly to an order from Zeus by saying this:
" Three brothers are we, sons of Cronos and Rhea, Zeus and I and Hades, Lord of the Dead. The world was divided in three, and each received his domain. When the lots were cast, I won the grey sea for my home forever, while Hades had the dense darkness beneath. Zeus may have taken the wide heavens, the cloud and air, but Earth and lofty Olympus are common to us all. So I will not submit to Zeus’s will."
>>47318707
This perfectly represents my Abyssal and his Lunar mate in an Exalted campaign I'm in. Totally stealing it.
Out of all the Greek gods, Hades was probably the nicest. Thanatos was death and took souls and Hermes guided souls to the Underworld.
Hades was the judge if the dead, and his wife was chill af too.
>>47322702
Souls on their way to the underworld get passed around like relay batons, it's a little silly. First it's Hermes, and then it's Charon, and then it's Hades and then finally you're where you need to go.
>>47309321
I was curious, so I checked my 2E Legends and Lore book:
Zeus: Neutral
Ares: Chaotic Evil
Hades: Lawful Neutral
Hecate: Chaotic Evil
I can understand Ares being CE, he basically lives only for the slaughter of others, and cares nothing for keeping his word or fighting fair.
Not sure about Hecate though. "Defender of Children" hardly fits with CE.
Now, in contrast, Deities & Demigods from 3E lists their alignments as:
Zeus: Chaotic Good (Baffling!)
Ares: Chaotic Evil (par for the course)
Hades: Neutral Evil (also baffling)
Hecate: Chaotic Evil
So, apparently this is more of a 3E thing than older editions. Big surprise.
>>47309493
Zeus is my role model.
>>47323021
Come to think of it, Greek gods' genetics are fucking horrible. One time their children can be the epitome of beauty, other times they are horrid manimal mutants barely able to function.
>>47323131
To be fair, the Minotaur did not come into existence in the way that the comic shows.
But it was funny setup for the pokemon joke.
>>47323131
Constant inbreeding will do that.
>>47321817
>Nobody gives a fuck about historical facts in an historical discussion
Thank you for you contribution.
>>47309476
an evil person can be a doting husband and a good friend. that's why only pallys have problems with people just for being evil.
>>47323811
>Hades is listed as evil
>Is a doting husband and an all around swell guy.
>Zeus is listed as good.
>Is a serial rapist who will firebomb mortals just because he was bored.
No wonder people become Satanists.
>>47317381
What country is that?
Because as a Britbong, our history is taught as a grey solmn march of facts and figures with barely a silver lining to anything we did.
I WISH we showed any GOOD we did.
>>47320026
>Norse god time
>Odin is good
>Loki is evil
Norse gods being literally the most complex fucking gods in existance due to their constant reworking as Ancient Germanic gods is a pain.
>>47318707
Question!
Why are they portraited like a happy couple in a shitton of fanart and fanfiction??
>>47324682
Because they were the only Greek married couple in the past 3000 years who made things work out.
>>47324682
Because they're literally the only two deities whose marriage is actually good.
The Trojan War d20 game gave these alignments for Greek Gods:
Aphrodite - Chaotic Neutral
Apollo - Chaotic Good
Ares - Chaotic Evil
Artemis - Lawful Neutral
Athena - Lawful Good
Hades - Lawful Neutral
Hecate - Chaotic Evil
Hephestus - Lawful Neutral
Hera - Chaotic Good
Hermes - Chaotic Good
Iris - Lawful Neutral
Poseidon - Chaotic Neutral
Zeus - Chaotic Good
>>47324682
Because barring a bit of ugliness at first, they actually were.
Probably the only stable, long-term relationship you'll find in Greek mythology. At least as far as the gods go.
>>47324712
Aside from that old couple who got turned into trees so that they could be together forever.
>>47324729
>Trojan War d20
>Iris - Lawful Neutral
>>47324682
Because of the relationship between Hades and Pluton (and Plutus).
The same stories were told about Hades and Pluton, but with different themes behind them. Hades was the violent and dark god. Pluton was the stern ruler but loving husband.
Basically, if they got a statue and were liked, it was Pluton. If they didn't, and weren't, it's Hades.
Of course, Pluton later got merged with Plutus, god of Wealth; and became known to the Romans as Pluto.
>>47324682
>>47324712
>>47324715
>>47324806
Also here's more HadeSephone
>>47324712
>>47324715
>>47324735
Okay so after the whole Abduction myth they were actually described as a happy married couple?
That's some cool shit
>>47323987
Poland, but also applies to Germany, Sweden and Denmark. The amount of contortions average English textbook makes to put some English/American action in good or at least neutral light is just fucking amazing.
Case the point - entire colonialism. Read English textbook - UK being the best and brightest, always helpful and never harming anyone. Read any other source - bunch of baffons absolutely unable to handle anything or adopt to local variables.
>>47324823
Well that was how things were done. Reminder that Helen was also abducted, but it's often portrayed as willing.
It's been suggested that Persephone's abduction was much the same. (Demeter was a very protective mother)
>>47324823
There actually isn't a lot of material on how they were as a couple, but Persephone is usually depicted as sitting by Hades side. So she's usually portrayed with her own thrown, crown, and everything else you'd expect for a Queen of the Dead. Hades is usually described as fairly nice to her, at least as nice as someone so joyless can be towards a person. He doesn't run around on her like Zeus or Poseidon would, and you get the sense he's supposed to genuinely love her.
While she's occasionally a little gloomy, she usually serves the role as Hades' morality pet. IIRC, she's the one who actually vouched for Orpheus and convinced Hades to at least give the guy a chance to get his girlfriend back.
>>47324882
Which of her activities are you questioning? I mean, she did some work alongside Lyssa, who'd most likely be Chaotic Evil. But then Lyssa's also an agent of Hera.
>>47324857
>english history textbooks
They are bad
>>47324922
Also, people were terrified of her.
She's called Dread Persephone in the Illiad and Odyssey.
>>47324922
Cool. And what sources could/should I read about this matter?
I only have read Herodot
>>47325006
Well, yeah, from what I can tell she decided to totally own her new role. Why wouldn't she? The literal god of death swept her off her feet and told her she could help him run the show.
>>47325007
That I don't know. My knowledge mostly comes from reading a lot of books on myths over the course of my life. While her story is interesting, as far as I can tell she's still not a major figure in most hero cults. Her origin story is probably the only tale I can think of where she plays a major role.
>>47309386
>evil clerics unemployed
Have them be mad cultist idiots looking to free the Titans. That'd be the best solution.
>>47325082
>Titans.
>Evil.
When the Titans were in charge it was the golden age. The world was brilliant and peaceful. Titan cultists wouldn't be evil. Go for Typhon and Echidna instead.
>>47325169
But why are they pictured ebil?
Also I just discovered the lady who does all this Hades/Persephone art I've been shamelessly dumping actually turned it into a (ongoing) comic.
https://tapastic.com/episode/209758
Dialogue's a little silly, but the art is fun.
>>47325186
Because if Zeus is supposed to be good, and he overthrew his father, wouldn't his father be evil?
Not really, no. Like >>47325169 said, it was a golden age when the Titans ruled.
>>47309321
Pretty much the whole Greek pantheon is CN. With a few exceptions they generally did whatever they wanted when they wanted for no other reason than they felt like it at any given time, regardless of the consequences to other people (and often even to themselves)
>>47324926
I'm talking about university tier, not school textbooks
>>47312212
>>47314899
>>47314953
This is you.
>>47325186
Because the gods overthrew them.
And also because Cronus was cursed.
You see, way back when, before the Titans, there were the Protogenoi, the great forces. Gaia the Earth; Tartarus, the Abyss; Nyx, Darkness; and Uranus, the Sky.
Uranus kept having children with Gaia, but he didn't like them: not the Cyclopes, not the Hecatonchires, and not the Titans.
He stuck the first two sets into his brother, Tartarus, to stay imprisoned for eternity. Unfortunately, Tartarus is within Gaia (it's... complex) so they kept causing her pain.
She asked the Titans to stop Uranus from having children, and only Cronus would do it. He castrated his father, and became ruler of the universe, let all his brothers out, chucked his father's balls into the ocean, and generally made things a better place.
Unfortunately, Uranus wasn't too happy with this. He cursed Cronus that his children would do to him, what he had done to his father.
Cronus didn't take this too well, and kind of went overboard. Eating all his kids. And imprisoning his brothers the Cyclopes and Hecatonchires in Tartarus again.
So Zeus either killed or imprisoned Cronus in Tartarus. Along with the other Titans.
And by this time, Gaia was kind of pissed at everyone sticking things in her brother, so she went to Tartarus and had him stick something in her.
She then gave birth to Typhon, a horrific monster who plagued Zeus until he threw a mountain on it. And then may have stuck him in Tartarus.
Oh yeah, and at some point Uranus' balls gave birth to Aphrodite, goddess of love.
>>47318103
>>47318315
She was one of the four most beautiful goddesses and he was basically a crippled mutant, so he prematurely came on her thighs after intercrural sex. She wiped it off with wool from her loom and tossed it on the ground, where it just happened to fall on a patch of bare dirt, thus knocking up Gaea.
This is of course, just one version of the story. There are typically multiple if not countless others.
>>47325460
So Cronus is one a the few decent beings in greek mytholgy? Or was it more like that he was kinda okayish compared to the other douchbags.
Also thanks for your time anon. You write it in a ratherr entertaining yet clear way
>>47325636
Well, I guess I'd say tragic more than anything else.
He was the only one brave enough to confront his father, only to be cursed and fuck everything up with his paranoia from it.
And believe it or not, Zeus didn't learn from his father's cannibalism. He seduced one goddess, who was prophecised to bear a child who would be greater than its father. So, not wanting for the prophecy to come true, after sex he ate her.
And a whole bunch of time later, he suddenly felt a pain in his head. He did the logical thing and got someone to hit him with an axe, and well, that's where we get Athena from.
>>47325636
Not him but I'd say
>more like that he was kinda okayish compared to the other douchbags.
is a better description.
Eating your children as they're born is not "decent" by any stretch of the imagination. Especially since his paranoia was his sole motivator.
>>47325636
He was good until he tried to mess with Fate and started eating his children, thus ensuring his fate.
>>47325712
>He seduced one goddess, who was prophecised to bear a child who would be greater than its father. So, not wanting for the prophecy to come true, after sex he ate her.
What the fuck?! I mean fucking everythign that is in your way I can understand but this? Okay that leaves the question, why is he often portrayed as the good guy nowadays? If I would make an educated guess: Did the 19th. cent. fucked that up?
>>47325815
>why is he often portrayed as the good guy nowadays?
Because he was the head honcho, which obviously means he's a righteous dude. This is what happens when your culture is destroyed even harder than the Spaniards did to the Mesoamericans.
