/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
Old Thread: >>47232378 → #
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First Succession War
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dp9iiecoaz4c29k/E-CAT35235_BattleTech+First+Succession+War.pdf
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>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
Anyone downloaded TtS Brownstreak or whatever it is called?
>>47276028
No, but I am holding your Butte
>420, based Captcha
Playing some megamek and my Medium Pulse Laser just hit an Atlas for 3 damage.
What the fuck?
>>47276287
Probably either some atlas with hardened/reflective armor, or Glancing Blows is turned on.
>>47276287
Reflective armor?
Ran a quick test between a hunchback and a thunderbolt with my modifications to the armaments and damage system of Gruntz. Definitely way better results. The Thunderbolt won, but took 50% damage, and the whole affair took 5 turns of fire and movement. Rather than 1-2 that it took without modification.
Gotta make my own unit cards though instead of using a builder, still, stealing the default template and editing it is piss-easy, just time consuming.
If I wasn't planning on including battle armours I'd just drop the overall damage output by 10 since it'd be superfluous to keep the range as it is right now otherwise.
Eventually went with a 1.5x multiplier over BT's ranges, 2x felt too long and would have meant the mechs were too slow without also doubling speed, which in Gruntz isn't slowed by need to spend it on turning so much, so achieves a consistent faster rate than BT's mapsheet movement overall whilst having a similar range of movement amounts (4-7 walking for most).
>>47276543
Again, why the hell are you not just playing Alpha Strike
>>47276736
As stated previously, it's overly expensive, difficult to get hold of in a physical copy combined with I hate playing with a .pdf for reference at the table, especially one that requires not one but two large books to cover the system in play properly, and I've never liked just how much the Battleforce system really cuts down on detail to the point of being even worse about it than 3rd edition Epic 40k jamming everything into an abstract 'firepower'.
With all that, why the fuck would I play Alpha Strike?
>>47276818
>overly expensive
nigga what
>difficult to get hold of in a physical copy
You're posting here, you can clearly order one online
>requires not one but two large books to cover the system
The books are downright scrawny. If you combined them into one volume they would be average for a game system.
>Battleforce
Is not Alpha Strike
Retard Britcuck pls go
I know it's not BT but holy shit, this is impressive as fuck. I always wanted to try this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpS1SVeBQ1M
>>47276889
I'm still not seeing any arguments in favour of the system.
Why would I use it? I have an alternative I am happier with already. Are you trying to imply there's something wrong with adjusting a system to be more suitable? Are you against putting in a small amount of effort to a hobby activity? Is it that I don't like something you like?
I honestly don't comprehend your outrage.
>>47277056
I dont get it either. Some people just get asspained for incomprehensible reasons. Would love to see how you converted everything. I need to check out Gruntz now.
>>47277122
>>47277056
Well I'm not the other guy but now I hate you and it for "Gruntz"
Are you going to play it with Miniz and Dize?
>>47277208
Silly git, its the name of the system. So far it looks pretty neat at the 15mm scale. Dont know the rules so really hoping the other anon posts his bt converted stuff to grasp this stuff.
>>47277336
Fuck off shill, you're fooling nobody.But seriously, stop trying to kludge that shit together and just play the fucking game designed to do what you want.
When will purple birds realize that the anus can only stretch so far until it bleeds?
>>47277379
Why are you so mad tho? Dude doesn't like how abstract AS is but still wants a BT-lite. I don't get his other complaints like cost and books but wanting a BT feel but at a different scale and speed is completely understandable.
>>47277536
Wanna play FATAL?
>>47277572
What happens when Purple Burd-chan gets pregnant?
>>47277617
Much like how Griffith was reborn into the mortal world, the Master shall be reborn! BLAKE VULT!
This thread is already fucking horrendous
Shitposters, shills, memelords and other assorted faggots plz go
>>47277572
>Why are you so mad tho? Dude doesn't like how abstract AS is but still wants a BT-lite. I don't get his other complaints like cost and books but wanting a BT feel but at a different scale and speed is completely understandable.
Because he's literally doing the exact fucking thing he complains about. You can't save people from themselves but you can at least point out their idiocy for others.
>>47277639
>Purple burd gets pregnant.
>Don't ask who or why.
>child is the second coming of Blake
>at least that what everyone says.
Was it consensual?
>>47277689
From what I saw from the last thread it looks like a more granular conversion where the loadouts actually matter. I dont know if locational damage and heat is involved or not. But you do know you're saying he is not allowed to try to make a system that appeals more to his sensibilities and that makes you mad he essentially isnt using GW approved materials right?
>>47277706
>at least that what everyone says
It better not be another fucking Kerensky.
>Was it consensual?
Yes, with hand holding in the missionary position
What's everyone's favorite force-filler/utility mech? Like, that one mech that you just keep going back to when you want to round out a lance or fill in the #12 spot in a company
>>47277889
A Thunderbolt, Vindicator, or Hunchback. All three never steer me wrong.
>>47277889
Albatross.
Not even joking, it has a gun for everything and moves fast enough to roll with lighter units.
>>47277889
At the risk of sounding like a memer, the Vindicator is my go-to. However, I like to mix it up and not every lance is a Cappie lance, so things like the Archer, Thud, Shad, Wolvie, and whatnot are all up there too.
The face of justice.
So the Brotherhood of Randis made an Assault mech.
What would you like to see next from those crazy crusaders?
>>47277961
If I didn't know what this was , I would assume it was some Kevin Simbieda-tier art. Every time I see it it makes me think of some of the shit-tier art he makes that he jams into his products.
>>47277974
A homegrown utility Light 'Mech, to be honest.
>>47277536
When the clans are done DPing the Lyrans
>>47277982
Honestly, unless he's degraded badly in the last fifteen years (which is totally possible), his art in the older Rifts and such RPGs never struck me as BAD inasmuch as aggressively mediocre
>>47277889
Merlin, Vindicator, Lineholder or Bandersnatch. Sometimes Warhammers, too.
I also use Hunchbacks ,Grasshoppers, Archers and Thunderbolts a lot, but not really as last-minute filler
>>47277974
A solid heavy trooper, something like the Hound or Cataphract-2X
>>47277822
>he is not allowed to try to make a system that appeals more to his sensibilities
No, he's not. Play what's provided or get out.
>>47278191
I can't tell if you're being serious or not because I have met people who think this
>>47278081
>aggressively mediocre
Honestly this is probably more true than what I said. I just take issue with him shoehorning it in when it brings the art quality of the books down a lot, especially when he had really decent stable artists, even back in the day.
>>47278073
Frankly, I want them to finish the job. Then the FWL and Falcons DP the Wolves, and then OCTARINE OWL is go
>>47278446
>I just take issue with him shoehorning it in when it brings the art quality of the books down a lot,
I always assumed that it was a money thing, like "oh fuck we need more art but don't have enough money for artists. I KNOW, I'LL DO IT MYSELF"
Palladium has never exactly been rolling in the dough
>, especially when he had really decent stable artists, even back in the day.
On a side note, I really wish they had gotten Kevin Long and Wayne Breaux to do TRO art back in the day; they were actually really good at giant robots, much better than a lot of the late FASA crowd
>>47278679
Signed
What would the best time period for a Battletech tv series be?
>>47278709
Clan invasion. I'd probably center it around Somerset, and have it focus on the Jade Falcons.
>>47278732
It would be really interesting to do it from the PoV of the clan warriors and have them learn about Inner Sphere culture and how much more familiar it is to the viewers.
>>47278748
Trying to do things from the PoV of the "villain" almost never works out, especially for TV.
>>47278777
But the clans are the good guys! Except the Smoke Jags.
We don't talk about smoke jags.
>>47278777
It wouldn't be hard to portray the Clans as the good guys, returning to reconquer the decadent remnants of the space they abandoned centuries ago. You could really write them as anything from glorious heroes(how they see themselves) to tragic antivillains(they just want to reform the Star Leage) to The Absolute Worst(smoke jags >>47278801
)
>>47277889
My top three would be Wolverine, Griffin and Hunchback. The first two are great utility units in any model, and the Hunchback has a variant for every occasion. You want the biggest gun? -4G. LRMs? -4J. SRMs? -4SP. Enough lasers to be the light show at the regimental disco night? -4P.
>>47277999
FWIW, they should have a fair few thanks to easy purchase from their allies.
>>47278777
YOU DARE TO REFUSE MY BATCHALL?
>>47281165
I DARE
DARE TO BELIEVE I CAN SURVIVE
>>47278828
Go with Ghost Bear as the protagonists. Family values and sibkin loyalties, Stronk action heroes, and occasionally very silly American Football.
>>47281662
>very silly American Football
At least it wasn't a complete walkover. They should have given the kicker of that field goal the MVP.
>>47278801
>>47278828
Shit, at least the Jaguars were honestly portrayed. Not like the Ghost Bears magically winning the loyalty of a people who spent several centuries fighting for independence.
When did the Diamond Sharks change back to being Sea Foxes?
>>47282419
3100.
>>47282419
Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes seem pretty pragmatic for Clanners
>Due to the equality between the castes, the Diamond Sharks practice a unique reserve system for replacing military losses. Rather than remain warriors until death, Diamond Shark warriors could voluntarily "retire" to a lower caste - almost always the merchant caste - with very little loss of honor. In fact if the warrior had earned their Bloodname and so secured their genetic legacy there was no loss of honor at all. This was because these 'warrior-traders' remained part of the Clan's reserve system and could be recalled at any time to service. Bloodnamed warriors who fought an annual Trial of Position were allowed to remain part of the active reserves while the rest were considered inactive. For this reason the Clan had very few solahma units, composed of warriors too stubborn to leave or disgraced in some way and seeking honor in death.
>This reserve system was used for the first time after Tukayyid, but even so rebuilding their shattered forces proved to be too slow, and so the 'Minus-One Testing' program was instituted. An active reservist could immediately fill an open position within a second-line or garrison unit by willingly taking a demotion to one rank below what they'd earned: if in their last Trial of Position they had earned the rank of Star Colonel they could instead resume active duty as a Star Captain. Those on inactive duty would fight a new Trial of Position with the same terms of enlistment, and both would be allowed to advance back to their former positions through the normal methods once they were warriors again. This swelled the ranks of those units responsible for defending the Diamond Sharks' vast holdings while the best warriors were able to quickly fight their way back to front-line units. Additionally, in the rare case of a reservist being challenged to a Trial by an active-duty warrior and winning, they were allowed to assume that warrior's rank and position.
>>47282661
And their uniforms make me think of Treasure Planet
>>47282676
Nothing beats the Dracula Pattern mess dress though.
(In all seriousness, the Ghost Bears probably have the best-looking dress uniform.)
>>47282883
All I've seen is their Mobile Infantry cosplay.
>>47282991
Here it is.
>>47283028
But I liked the Jaguar dress uniform better. The cape really sells it. Plus the Bear one looks like a South American get-up.
>>47283049
Not nearly enough bling for that El Presidente look. I do admit the GB kit isn't nearly fancy enough for proper mess dress (such as the one this glorious bastard is wearing) but as a No.2 service dress it's probably the most practical one I've seen in all BT.
>>47283078
I guess, but practical in BT? Like most Bear things it ends up boring.
That Lyran get-up has the right idea: fancy, flashy, shit-eating and expensive.
>>47283078
>fat as hell
>rich nation
>incompetent military
>corrupt arms contractors
>"german and celtic heritage"
shit, the Lyrans are Space America.
>>47283121
The Lyrans' magnificent moustaches are the icing on the cake. Even Flashman would be envious of that face fuzz.
>>47283179
Exactly.
The Free Worlders have it right too with their fancy white uniforms. It evokes this sense of Habsburg or Bourbon dynasties, of age and class. Throw purple on that in a callback to imperial aspirations and that's a nice look.
Just look at the shoulders.
>>47283157
or Space Russia, or Space British Empire at the peak of colonialism
>>47283245
>Just look at the shoulders.
Would you properly call those epaulettes or pauldrons?
>>47283157
The Germans have ben ridiculously incompetent at getting the next gen projects rolled out during WW2 and they fucked up military procurement hard in recent years.
>>47283245
I see ol' Tommy's taken the old and approved route of customising his uniform as the top military man of the FWL. That golden piping is purple for everyone else!
Then again, IIRC in the old house book the FWLM is actually mentioned as having a huge variety of dress uniforms, each more blingy than the last. I just wish one of the hussar regiments would have THE traditional hussar style dress uniform. Just look at Vicky Louise here - she knows how good it looks.
>>47283157
You posted this before, eurocuck.
>>47283245
Found it. And of course Thomas put an end to the fancy uniforms. Spoilsport.
>>47283394
>That skull
How have I never noticed it? This uniform just went from great to fuckin metal.
>>47281662
Aside from the minor problem of their perpetration of jag-tier atrocities across their OZ from 3050 to the mid-60s
As dress uniforms go, I think the Blood Spirits deserve a honorable mention simply for wearing them to clan council meetings instead of fursuits
>>47283690
Those never happened, they were ComStar propaganda. The Bears actually were building schools, hospitals and tabletop-focused gaming stores to win the loyalty of the Rasalhagian people.
>>47283814
>this is what Ben Rome actually believes
>>47283673
Cavalry regiments really go for the skull theme. One of the most metal cavalry guidons I can remember is that of a Finnish cavalry unit: black guidon with a skull and a red rose. In Blighty, the Queen's Royal Lancers had the greatest cap badge ever.
>>47283827
There's one short story in one of the sourcebooks or rulebooks that details an interaction between Rasalhagian resistance members to the Ghost Bears being betrayed by one of their own.
I wish I could find it again.
>>47284047
Yes, said short story is set in the 3070s or 80s, AFTER the OZ treatment 180 in the 60s
>>47284232
Yeah I know. You wouldn't happen to remember that book it's in, would you?
>>47284267
Era report 3085?
I don't really remember
>>47283690
In the begening they were painting clan wolf as the "Moral" clanners. As ghost bear was not Wolf, they had to be as big a cockslap as the other crusader clans. When Bear became the largest warden clan, they got some nice white wash to go with it.
If you wanted to make a TV show from the clan perspective, they still fit the bill. Jags are assholes, and Green Chicken are cunts, and not in a way that makes people want to have them even as anti-heroes.
Was Yvonne the worst ruler of the post-Hanse FedSuns?
>helped the FCCW happen
>unqualified to lead at all
>made a mess of things in the Jihad
>no one respected her
>embraced "muh LCTs"
>fucked over the AFFS long term by embracing an uninformed defensive orientation
>didn't hide away war materials
>didn't even try to rebuilt the AFFS to a force of RCT rape-trains
>mothered an unremarkable twit that married a Hasek
>grandmother to Caleb the Cuck
They really should have just ditched Yvonne after the FCCW and elevated a cadet branch to rule.
>>47285063
She is fucking terrible, sure. But is she actually worse than Caleb?
>>47285063
>They really should have just ditched Yvonne after the FCCW and elevated a cadet branch to rule.
Shoulda given it to the Marik-Steiner-davions
>>47285745
Or given New Avalon back to the Capellans and let Sun-tzu have the throne.
>>47285836
>given New Avalon back to the Capellans
New Avalon is an ancient Capellan planet like Chesterton?
>>47285906
Since the Liaos are the rightful successors to the First Lordship, ALL planets in the Inner Sphere are Capellan ancestral territory.
>>47285906
>Implying Strana Mechty isn't an ancient Capellan holding.
>>47285745
Their claim goes through Victor, who renounced his claim.
>>47285063
Honestly, making the fucking calderons heirs to the FS would have been a better idea than Yvonne
Hey guys, I'm putting together a 3058-era Capellan company for OpFor use in an upcoming game, and I could use a second opinion on it
>Command Lance
Cataphract-2X
Snake-1V
Thunderbolt-5S
Vindicator-1L
>Fire Lance
Longbow-0W
Archer-4M
Rifleman-3N
Vindicator-3L
>Recon Lance
Locust-1E
Phoenix Hawk-1D
Locust-1E
Jackal-1532
It's supposed to be a periphery border guard company, since that's where the players are being employed to raid
Any suggestions, improvements, anything?
>>47288025
It's pretty close to the Periphery, so drop the Longbow (assaults aren't as necessary so far out on the fringe) and grab a second Archer or a Catapult in its place, just to lighten the force a touch.
Also, the Snake is pretty high-tech for a Periphery border guard company. Cut it for something a little lower tech, like a med/heavy line mech from whatever power this area is near?
>>47288494
>Command Lance
>Cataphract-2X
>Marauder-3R
>Thunderbolt-5S
>Vindicator-1L
>Fire Lance
>Archer-2R
>Archer-4M
>Rifleman-3N
>Vindicator-3L
>Recon Lance
>Locust-1E
>Phoenix Hawk-1D
>Locust-1E
>Jackal-1532
Alright, I've made a few changes; the snake is replaced with a captured taurian marauder and the Longbow is exchanged for another Archer. I'm keeping the Jackal as the company's only post-3050 design, since they were said to mostly be out on the periphery border.
Overall, it looks decently threatening without being TOO dangerous, which is what I want.
Thanks for the help
>>47288857
>Overall, it looks decently threatening without being TOO dangerous, which is what I want.
I'd run it. Looks solid anon, well done man. What're the other players running as their force?
>>47288966
Their unit is reenforced battalion strength overall, two companies each of tanks and mechs. For this mission, though, they're deploying their second mech company, each player running a lance, which is so:
(They're all fans of modified machines, mostly for durability reasons)
>command lance
Emperor-6A
Grasshopper-5H
Thunderbolt-5S (modified with DHS, ERLL and CASE)
Wolverine-6K (modified with CASE and no SL)
>Fire Lance
Archer-4M (Artemis IV removed for more ammo, all MLs front)
Shadow Hawk-K (with 1 less SHS and keeps the ML)
Cestus-6Y
Marauder-3R (modified with 16 DHS and a third PPC, plus extra armor)
>Line Lance
Warhammer-7M (modified with no MG or AMS, CASE and more armor)
Hunchback-4P
Merlin-1B
Crab-27
Aside from the Cestus, pretty much the entire unit is old machines purchased at auction for cheap and refitted with more modern gear.
It's going to be a set of three lance-on lance battles, though which lance faces which is going to be randomized, as is the surprise arrival of a lance of Po tanks to one of the fights, and a lance of Vedettes to another, since these guys are so much heavier than the capellans they're facing. Should be interesting.
I'll post a battle report after the game, which is sometime this week, as of yet undetermined
>>47278748
Like the Zentraedi-Meltrandi in Macross?
>>47285063
I think the Field Report implied that, had the army she created been around in recent times, the Federated Suns might not be having the military troubles they do now.
>>47283394
>>47283673
>>47283986
>>47289818
But what about Lancers?
So many dick jokes being missed out on.
>>47285063
>embraced "muh LCTs"
Whats wrong with those again?
>fucked over the AFFS long term by embracing an uninformed defensive orientation
Maybe defensive operations seemed like the best use of a badly mauled AFFS.
>didn't hide away war materials
For what purpose and from whom?
>didn't even try to rebuilt the AFFS to a force of RCT rape-trains
I was under the impression that after a major civil war and the Word's Jihad that it would have been too taxing to rebuild the full might of the AFFS as it had been.
>>47289818
I was amused.
>>47290046
>For what purpose and from whom?
The AFFS hid their army buildups and weapon testing from the Hegemony, and Stone wasn't even half as on the ball as the "I parked a Bug Eye over your capital" Camerons. And your belligerent neighbors have either just fought a war with the Republic or have been chomping at the bit to kill, Kill, KILL! the next person to piss them off after the Bears hit them.
>>47285716
She probably passed her awfulness on to him.
>>47287520
Right?
>>47289768
A part of the reason they're having the military troubles they are is because of her bassackwards reforms.
>>47290046
>Whats wrong with those again?
Fighting 32nd century warfare in the style of late 3rd Succession War desperation? Geez, I wonder what could be wrong with them.
>Maybe defensive operations seemed like the best use of a badly mauled AFFS.
Not for goddamn forever. After the war is over you rebuild so you don't get shanked again, not sit in cantonments waiting for it.
>For what purpose and from whom?
For stockpiles and from their neighbors, what do you think?
>I was under the impression that after a major civil war and the Word's Jihad that it would have been too taxing to rebuild the full might of the AFFS as it had been.
Maybe within something unrealistic like 5 years. But not bothering for 50? At least the Cappies had the right idea about preparing for the inevitable next war.
>>47290046
>For what purpose
So as to not get fucked in the next war
>and from whom?
From Disarmament Devlin and his idiocy
>>47290046
>For what purpose and from whom?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/7e3ec59d-12b6-4b49-b772-921919eafa34
>>47290234
>From Disarmament Devlin and his idiocy
Now that I never really understood.
On one hand I assumed everyone went along with it because the Sphere had just seen a string of devastating conflicts (War of 39, Ronin Conflicts, Clan Invasion, Civil Wars, Jihad) and were legitimately interested in peace. .
However that idea fell short when I got to Sun-Tzu, who apparently not only wanted to continue the conflicts, but rebuilt his military in such a way that he was able to.
>>47290588
Yeah. That sort of thing only makes any sense whatsoever if literally everyone is in on it. The capellans not being in on it should really have stopped everyone else from going along with it, too
>>47290179
Now I thought that, aside from the Capellans (who technically weren't bound by the Republic's nonsense as they refused Stone's coalition) and the Clans, most of the Inner Sphere's remaining (cohesive) successor states were going along with Stone's disarmament up until the HPG crash?
>>47290645
Pretty much. Plus it's not like they hadn't endured the Age of War, the hidden wars of the Star League era, and the Succession Wars, and so would be conditioned to prepare for the next war.
>>47290645
>The capellans not being in on it should really have stopped everyone else from going along with it, too
To be fair, maybe they didn't think the Capellans were a major threat they warranted rebuilding the military (as short sighted as that would be).
Even with a drastically reduced military, weren't the Federated Suns (or the Capellan March more correctly) able to invade a commonality world and hammer Capellan forces in the (relatively short) Victoria War?
>>47290588
I guess disarmament would really have been better conveyed as simply not rearming.
I can't think of a decent historical comparison though as even things like WW1 and 2 didn't devastate armed forces and industry in the same way the Jihad did to basically everyone. It'd be more akin to a limited WW3 being followed by a lack of rebuilding armed forces due to mutual agreement, except for one of the least hurt (though comparatively weak to start with) nations involved just carrying on quietly instead because why not.
>>47290234
>From Disarmament Devlin and his idiocy
Why hundreds of years of nonsense, total war in the entire known universe doesn't bother anyone while not even 50 years of a truce policy portrayed IC as failed from the start (not even Belle Lee, to say one of the most important RotS characters, gave her Victor to the Republic. That was one of the first short stories in MWDA, from the Wizkids site) does?
>>47290826
>BattleTech
>>47285063
In her defense, was she even groomed for the position?
It seems like Hanse and Melissa were hedging their bets on Victor ruling both halves of the vast Federated Commonwealth and looking after things rather than any of his siblings, least of all the youngest of them.
>>47290192
>Fighting 32nd century warfare in the style of late 3rd Succession War desperation? Geez, I wonder what could be wrong with them
Eh?
>>47291008
LCTs are a mech battalion with a few regiments of conventional support. Literally what was being done in the end of the 3rd Succession War.
>>47291008
>In her defense, was she even groomed for the position?
Yvonne got the Regency of the FC while Victor went off to give the Clans a hot dicking. She had a few "Katherine is the hotter sister!" complaints from some worlds, caused by her sister, then asked Kat for help. After some pundits said mean things about her, Yvonne actually let Katherine take over the FedCom without so much as a thing. Victor's *only* reaction should have been executing her the moment she told him. FASA a shit.
>>47291251
>the Privy Council and Prince's Champion and Davion Guard and CID and MIIO all did fucking nothing
christ
>>47277889
Griffin or Wolverine for mediums, Thunderbolt for heavies, BattleMaster for assaults.
>>47291251
>Victor's *only* reaction should have been executing her the moment she told him.
To be fair, Katherine was known to be manipulative so one really can't hold that against Yvonne.
Also Katherine coming to rule over the Federated Suns might have come to pass anyway as she could have just unseated Yvonne via force with few complaints.
Is Republic of the Sphere a fun faction?
Do we have any RotS players here?
>>47291061
Whats the failure of that in the modern era then?
Not as flexible or something?
>>47291707
>Whats the failure of that in the modern era then?
Can't stand up to massed battlemech opposition
>>47291707
Caleb's retardation.
Yvonne gets a lot of hate for things that are ultimately the writers deciding things have to go a certain way.
In the FCCW, her supposedly ultra-loyal, ultra-Davion circle of advisors all simultaneously fall prey to Katherine's charms, up to and including completely forgetting the laws of succession in their mad scramble to appoint her First Princess, despite being Victor's long-time court and knowing that Katherine killed Melissa Steiner and hasn't performed the military service required to be First Prince(ss).
Then in the Dark Age since the AFFS has to be hobbled down to being only one of the best factions militarily rather than THE best military factions as in previous eras she has to herp and derp around so the writers can set things up that way.
There is a lot of dumb shit going on but it can be attributed to Weisman and Coleman's retardation rather than Yvonne being a moron.
>>47291667
The thing is that there were a huge number of people who could have, and should have, prevented the whole sorry affair, as >>47291492 said. Also, Katherine did manipulate the polls and foment unrest to get the people turned against her, but that the FedSuns populace wanted Kat over... anyone else, is hilarious.
>>47291706
Yes
Fuck yes
Any specific questions, anon?
>>47291857
Playstyle, tactics, preferred mechs.
I mean I know the Cappie standard is stuff like Vindicators and Wunghunglows, and using ambushes and mines and stuff. What's the RotS schtick?
>>47291887
>What's the RotS schtick?
Clan tech, RISC tech, and Super-Heavy 'Mechs.
>>47290588
>>47290645
I'm writing a thing set in the immediate post-jihad era (~3099), and I'm thinking of two things as an alternative to the canon sillyness:
1: rather than actually decommissioning military gear (like those giant piles of primitive mechs they made for the jihad and replaced immediately after)the great houses ended up selling most of it intact as "scrap" to a variety of "non-governmental" paramilitary organizations
(Each house's military listings would therefor be in two columns; paper strength and paramilitary strength)
This would also include the ancendents of groups like the Swordsworn and such
And 2: the republic bullying Liao into more or less forcibly disarming, say through the threat of Ghost Burrs slapping their shit, and their neighbors backing it up, forcing them to take their military mostly underground like everyone else and pay lip service to the republic's crap
>>47291887
>What's the RotS schtick?
Having access to literally everything equipment-wise, allowing them to do all sorts of odd shit
>>47291809
So that isn't off-set by having more anti-mech units or something?
Also I suppose that explains the Capellan March's reluctance to have many of their regiments rebuilt as LCTs then.
>>47291846
>but that the FedSuns populace wanted Kat over... anyone else, is hilarious.
Who else was there?
>>47292157
Arthur S-D, who actually had military service, if no one else.
Here's a direct quote from Prince of Havoc, by the way. Proving no one had a fucking clue how their government worked:
By the middle of October the debate had been neatly framed and boiled down to a simple question that was asked in barrooms and on holovid political shows. "If Victor died," it went, "wouldn't Katrina be the heir to the Federated Commonwealth throne?" After all, Yvonne had only been placed there as regent, and it was rather clear she was not up to the task. And, for all anyone knew, Victor was dead somewhere beyond the Periphery. It could have turned out that Yvonne had been driving the Federated Commonwealth into ruin for nothing since her sister should have already been ruling them.
The debate drove Yvonne to desperation. By the middle of November she sent Katrina a message begging her to come and take over for her. Katrina agreed and accepted the reins of government just in time to preside over the holiday celebrations. She made certain Yvonne was at her side, and praised her sister for her valiant effort in such trying times, but everyone breathed a sigh of relief knowing a seasoned ruler was again at the ship of state's helm."
Again. FASA a shit.
>>47292157
>Who else was there?
literally anyone
>>47292157
>Who else was there?
Yvone, Arthur, Peter, and other branches of the Davion line (including George Hasek).
The Davion high-ups knew Katherine had killed her mother and had no military service. She'd also spent years badmouthing the Suns and fucking up the LAAF.
TL;DR: Forget it, Jake. It's the FedCom Civil War.
>>47292232
I've said it before but it would have made so much more sense if Victor had ruled from Tharkad and made Katherine the Regent on New Avalon.
That way you've got Victor pissing off the Suns by focusing his attention on the Clans and banging Omi, while Katherine is using that to her advantage politically and was raised in the Suns whereas Victor was raised in the Commonwealth.
Then instead of hurr I magically rule both realms now durr Katherine keeps pulling her bullshit in the Suns until public sentiment turns against her, she kills Arthur (or gets blamed for it) and that's the flash point for the whole thing.
But then we get Lyran good guys and Suns bad guys. So haha no.
>>47292254
> Peter
I thought Peter was in Exile and wanted very little to do with things at that time?
> George Hasek
Would he even have been a suitable choice?
>>47292319
Oh and anon, don't forget, Katherine had a fucking Liao as her primary advisor at this time. And the Feddies let her on New Avalon without a lynching.
>>47292346
>Would he even have been a suitable choice?
Until Porchbux required him to be crazy in the Jihad he was a quality leader, seasoned administrator and well respected throughout the AFFS.
>>47291887
RotS military is a mix of everything in Battletech universe. That means you can virtually deploy everything you want and use the tactic you like most. Of course power gamers can abuse this, but the fluff doesn't support the optimized lances one would deploy.
A more realistic and in-character way to create lances is:
Pick one "core" Republic mech (blade, osprey, lament, prefect, doloire...)
Pick one modern unseen config
Pick one IS mech randomly
pick one Clan mech randomly
Try to fit your force into a tactic they could work fine.
The Republic had lots of equipments from every state in the IS at the same time tgey had problems to get the necessary equipment were they where needed. This simple lance system can emulate them kinda easily.
These rules are mostly for standard forces. This doesn't apply to their special forces. Then you can pick literally everything and modify with crazy tech all you want.
Is playing Battletech with a Heroscape board as the map fun?
>>47281561
>dem jazzhands
That looks way more like a proper Catapult than a Timby.
>>47292157
>Who else was there?
Like I said upthread, literally declaring jeff calderon as his regent would have been a more logical choice and more popular with the FedSuns public than kitty. Literally anyone with even the vaguest bit of Davion blood and a pulse would have worked. George Hasek would actually have been a pretty good choice, too
>>47292319
I thought having her rule both halves of FedCom was an attempt to emphasize that the Civil War was more than just a "Suns vs Commonwealth" affair and more of a conflict that divides loyalties in both halves of the sundered nation?
>>47291950
>the republic bullying Liao into more or less forcibly disarming, say through the threat of Ghost Burrs slapping their shit, and their neighbors backing it up, forcing them to take their military mostly underground like everyone else and pay lip service to the republic's crap
>you will never see the rest of the Sphere get tired of Liao bullshit and gang up to wipe them out before going back to petty squabbling as usual
feels bad man
Is it just me or are PPC Capacitors secretly awful because you get double the heat load? 5 to charge, 5 extra to fire, for 5 bonus damage.
>>47292908
Maybe it was an attempt but they did such a job dividing things along Steiner and Davion lines that it fell kinda flat.
>>47293003
They're situational. I view them as an alternative for an (ER) Medium Laser. On bigger, slower units they're pretty badass but you do have to build around them.
The only places they're really shit are on Vees (where they weigh 6 tons thanks to the Capacitor and its extra heat) and at the Aero scale where they always have to be fired charged and have to take every second turn off.
>>47292474
It is fucking unbelievably amazing. 12/10 best way to BattleTech.
>>47292957
Nah, I personally like having Liao around as it's 3025-58 incarnation. Having it as a medium-ish power is great, battletech needs more of those. Plus, a weak CC and extant st.Ives work great in the post-jihad era as players on the same scale as the FWL chunk states and stuff, plus maybe a actual nation magistracy and a less-rekt concordat, turn the whole southeastern quarter of space into this stew of independent planets and medium-sized states. But that's just my preference, anyhow
I dunno, I don't actually dislike the concept of the CC, I just dislike it's Coleman and forward storyline
>>47293003
They're kinda nice when you pair them with LPPCs on lighter units, or with LPPCs+tarcomps for leg removal
Also, they turn a snub into a headcapper with the best short range in the game
What are the mechs on the cover of FM 3145?
>>47293238
Left to right: Prefect, Malice standing on a Tundra Wolf, and an Ares.
>>47293267
Thanks.
>>47292438
How about a Doloire, Jupiter, Catapult and Shadow Hawk? It that Republoid enough?
>>47293154
>Coleman and forward storyline
Whats the main gripe with that again?
>>47293375
Here we go again
How common would Clantech machines be in merc units (not counting the goons and snords and kell hounds) in the 3060s, on average?
>>47293610
Mary Sue/10
>>47293610
I'd call it about 1 mech per 70-80 mechs equipped with clantech at all, and one clan omnimech in about 100-120 mechs
>>47293660
Weak b8/10
>>47293610
Maybe it'd be roughly as common as Clan warmachines were in the Great House armies at the time of the initial Clan Invasion?
I'd also assume it'd be more common in mercenary commands aligned with the Federated Suns and Draconis Combine.
>>47293610
If you participated in Operation Bulldog or did a tour on the Falcon border for the Lyrans, maybe a little Clantech.
Otherwise not really.
>>47293610
As high as one or two per battalion for units on the clan front, maybe one per regiment for units in the FWL or CC, and maybe one single mech for every other regiment in the periphery
>>47293774
I think the FWL grouped most of its Clantech in a couple regiments for ease of maintenance. So like the 1st Knights and 1st Free Worlds Guards would have a decent stash but other regiments wouldn't really have any.
>>47293106
>I view them as an alternative for an (ER) Medium Laser.
>>47293610
Rare in units that served on the Clan Front, RARE AS FUCK outside them.
I wish to rush someone with five hunchback IIc's
What clan do I run?
>>47293953
Smoke Jag.
JAG HARDER
>>47293610
Either you captured a machine yourself (commonwealth or combine contract, or possibly pirate hunting for nearly anyone, since those ex-jag pirates really got around, but that would be pretty damn rare), or you bought one, presumably at auction after whoever DID capture it went under. Which would be rare, but not completely unheard of.
>>47293953
Smoke Jags
JAG HARDEST
>>47293610
Realistically? Hen's teeth should be more common. Clantech was noted as being difficult to maintain for decades, and even in the DA with Clan Space Shekel offering low, low rates on repairs, it's difficult to keep up. Do not do pic related. No matter howfunchewing up and spitting out ~23 Galaxes before your save is no longer viable is.
>>47293610
Pretty common. Pic related.
During the Clan Invasion, did the Clans ever bother explaining to their Inner Sphere opponents what a Batchall was?
>>47294121
Do you explain why filthy freebirths are disgusting as well, quineg? It is obvious fact.
>>47293610
Machines with an item or two of clantech (the vast majority of which would be energy weapons) would be uncommon but not extremely so. Like say the boss of a mid-tier battalion buys a CERLL at auction and pays Battle Magic to tape it to the top of his old Marauder-D. That kinda thing would be found here and there, but actual clan mechs would be extremely rare outside of units on the front lines
>>47293953
I believe you'll want to be a Smoke Jaguar, m'surat.
*tips war crimes*
>>47293953
SMOKE JAGS ERRYDAY
>>47293953
>>47294372
Hey guys, can you post Battletech NPC characters that I can borrow? Due to unforseen circumstances, my players are gonna be sharing a DropShip with another lance-sized merc unit for a good three-four months of travel, so I need them to be actual characters.
It's 3063 and they're leaving outreach for a garrison contact way out at the suns-periphery border. Just about anything mechwarrior-wise would be really helpful
Anyone here in the Santa Maria/San Luis Obispo, CA area? Moving down there in the next few weeks and wondering if there's any sort of community.
>>47294121
Only to the phone company.
>>47294590
define actual npc characters
>>47294590
A merc named Atleast Itsnot, who claims to have single-handedly slain an entire galaxy of Clanners.
>>47294012
You seriously need to get outside
>>47294590
inspired by this thread, here's a fresh clan defector:
Mechwarrior Nguyen Van Thanh
27 year old
Male
Elite
Trueborn into Clan Smoke Jaguar, Mechwarrior Thanh was posted to a second-line garrison unit in the Occupation Zone after a failed Trial Of Position. there, he became disillusioned with the clan way of life after significant exposure to spheroid civilian life and his dissatisfaction with his clan's treatment of those that they had conquered. when Operation Bulldog came, he decide to take the opportunity to defect, fleeing into the woods with his Tech and a quantity of spare omnipods, and leaving on a merchant DropShip several months later, bartering spare weapons for passage.
On outreach, he married his tech, took a new last name and began a new career as a mercenary. he joined %mercunitname less than a year ago, and is happy to be deployed to the periphery; he intends to spend several more years as a mercenary and retire somewhere in the periphery.
since leaving the clans, he has worked hard to distance himself from his former clan's ways, acting almost completely opposite at times; he has taken a last name and married, treats civilians with an unusually high degree of respect, fills his speech with contractions and slang, to the point of incomprehensibility at times, consumes large amounts of alcohol and has acquired a large quantity of knick-knacks and other unimportant material goods.
He pilots a Cauldron-Born A, though he has had to replace the missiles with two Inner Sphere SRM-4s, and has replaced the LBX-5 with a IS PPC and a pair of Clan ERMLs
>>47295134
I'm guessing that personalities are what he's after rather than stats
>>47289861
I think a bit on Benny Hill said it best:
>"So I thrust me lance up his cuirass..."
>>47289818
Well, I've always been partial to gingers so it's the hussar life for me.
What's your favorite/the best introtech mech?
>>47295937
>so it's the hussar life for me.
well, aside from the winged hussars
>HEAVY ARMOR
>HEAVIER DRINKING
>WINGS AND SHIT
>RIDE OR DIE
>FUCK ALL OTTOMANS
>FUCK ALL MOSCOVITES
not like your typical hussars, no
>>47295957
man, it's a clean three-way tie between the Mackie-7A, Grasshopper and Thunderbolt-5S
>>47295957
Just one? The Wolverine-6M. Jumps, useful at medium and close ranges, big laser instead of puny autocannon. Per weight class?
>light
Locust. Don't laugh: put a good pilot in the laser Locust, give it some wellie and stab bigger bastards in the back.
>medium
Wolverine. Both the -6M and -6K are very nice and the -6R is a fair-to-good all-rounder.
>heavy
Warhammer. Again, the -6D and the -6K are very nice, removing the machine gun bomb, and the -6D increases the armour so you can march with confidence.
>assault
Awesome-9Q. Accept no substitute.
>>47295957
the answer to 'best' is the awesome-8Q or possibly the introtech Marauder II, but that's boring, so I say that the Archer-2R is my favorite introtech mech
Are Gauss Rifles hard to make? Could a small periphery state like Niops, the Rim Collection, Lothian League, etc be technically capable of producing them in 3145?
>>47296001
>give it some wellie
wut
>>47296162
>Could a small periphery state like Niops, the Rim Collection, Lothian League, etc be technically capable of producing them in 3145?
since it's 3145 and the rule of production is "fuck a nigga pricetag, factories are no object", I see no reason why not. hell, they could have bought a stone disarmament-leftover factory for GRs from a random IS nation easy enough
>>47296162
Pedal to the metal, floor it, give it some wellie, firewall the throttle, etc.
>>47296162
>give it some wellie
u wot m8?
>>47293106 PPC+Cap always fire charged in aerotech because a round last one minute and not 10 sec
>>47296162
>give it some wellie
>wut
I think you're quoting >>47296094, who is evidently an ozzy. what he means is put the boot to it; that is to say, put the petal to the metal, drive it hard to the maximum
>>47296238
>petal
I'm pretty sure it's a largely a UK-specific idiom.
>>47296277
you're probably right. I just guessed ozzy by the hour that it be and since I'd heard that from an ozzy expat before, though you're the expert
Speaking of introtech 'Mechs: I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Shadow Hawk's "faceplate" could be covered with armoured blinds so that the actual glass isn't visible, but going through the TROs I can't find a mention about it. Is my memory playing tricks on me?
>>47296162
>Are Gauss Rifles hard to make? Could a small periphery state like Niops, the Rim Collection, Lothian League, etc be technically capable of producing them in 3145?
By 3145 all the common Level 2 equipment (basically everything that isn't advanced or experimental up to 3067) should be known and/or easily produceable in the Periphery. Rule of Thumb is that, outside somebody outright giving it to them (such as during the Trinity PorchBux Alliance) the Near Periphery gets tech advances about 25 years behind the Inner Sphere, and the Outer Periphery can get tech advances about 25-40 years after that. So by 3145, they should have been producing units using pretty much all TW-legal tech for at least a good 20 years already, and Gauss Rifles are really simple TW-legal tech.
>>47296303
maybe it's a dougram thing?
>>47293106
LPPC are an alternative to AC /5. Same range and damage, no ammo and no special ammo. LPPC+C are similar to an ERLL on light harasser mechs where you have time between two shots to charge the capacitor
>>47296303
It's not. You're thinking about part of the Shad's description in Decision at Thunder Rift.
>>47296315
More or less this. There's no real technological reason why Niops couldn't manufacture Gauss Rifles by 3145, unless they either don't want to, are missing some sort of specific component of which we aren't aware (Unobtanium is necessary for GRs and doesn't grow in Niops space, or something), or the writers don't want them to.
If it's for an AU, go for it. Giving deep Periphery nations some stuff past IntroTech is hardly gamebreaking.
>>47296315
>such as during the Trinity PorchBux Alliance
hell, that isn't even a good example, seeing as the Taurians didn't actually get anything in the way of tech from it; everything they had L2-wise after the retcon was reverse-engineered from bought liao stuff and stolen WoB stuff, plus homebrew. only the MoC actually benefited from that deal, and that was only because they more or less lost their identity as an actual state to become the CapCon's Strategic Pussy Reserve
>>47296315
>yfw Randis and Filtvelt are still stuck with SHS
Some of the others may be as well.
>>47294121
Does it matter? They'd send a message to the planet and either say they were attacking with X forces or ask to know what the defender was going to use.
Whichever it was, the intent was obvious.
>>47296363
the funny thing is, Filvert has full access to DHS through the Calderon Protectorate even if they aren't producing it themselves, same with FF and CASE.
personally, I think it's just about not making the Hound 2trooper 4 literally everyone without blatant flaws like that
>>47296342
>Decision at Thunder Rift
That must be it. I was thinking that if it wasn't in a TRO it had to have been one of the GDL books since the Shad was so prominent in them. I really have to read the oldies again some time.
>>47296393
>Filvert
>>47296428
FUCK
I like the faction but I can never get it right. It's that goddamn quebec influence getting me to default to french words, is what it is
'Filvelt', but I can't get it more than one time in three
>>47296460
Still spelled it wrong lol
Filtvelt
>>47296388
For the Clans, yep, but the IS the defenders were going "He wants to know our strength AND where we will fight? Is he out of his fucking mind?" and hanging up. At least that's how I remember it from the invading clans books. The most memorable parts, though, were those where IS mech drivers went one on one with the Clans, like the ex-Kuritan PXH pilot on some periphery planet and the regimental commander who bargained hegira for his unit.
>>47296475
SON OF A FUCK
ah well, I'll get it right some old day
>>47296496
Or they pull a Helmar Valasek. Of course, most law abiding folks didn't have nests full of booby traps and shit like he did.
Makes you wonder if having to take more time and suffer greater losses against a bunch of pirates than many actual House units made the Jaguars even more irritable than they normally would have been.
>>47296393
It's literally the single tech making small-scale Periphery designs feel distinct. Which is stupid, but we're stuck with it.
>>47296771
>greater losses against a bunch of pirates than many actual House units
The words "exercise in futility" come to mind when I think about a lot of those fights. The pinnacle has to be the Duke of Tamar who was so pissed off he didn't get additional troops for his planet that he went completely off the deep end.
Let's see: spending his fortune in buying a shitload of 'Mechs for his personal guard (which I'm fairly sure breaks the Lyran law on a noble's personal forces), surrounding his capital with a gigantic anti-'Mech defence line, then after the defending Lyran unit gets the tar beaten out of he refuses to let them into the city, and in the end his defences are breached easily anyway and he gets killed.
I remember someone just recently saying the only SW tech/mech combo they couldn't find, and I'm trying to remember what it was. Was it a heavy 'Mech with an AC 20?
>>47297588
>Was it a heavy 'Mech with an AC 20?
That's what I recall. And using Megamek's advanced search, it appears to be the case.
>>47297629
And checking that has got the wheels turning, my first thought is making AC/20 variants of extant mechs, the Orion being the first in mind since it already carries a big AC. If you drop to an LRM 10 with 1 ton of ammo, you can fit an AC/20 with 15 shots. And then I realized the result is basically a Cyclops that actually has armor.
>>47297588
>>47297629
Downgraded Shootist? I swear there was one with standard large and medium lasers and some bonus heat sinks to make up the difference.
>>47297694
Might be a variant that does that, but there's no actual introtech Shootist, they're all TL.
More introtech AC/20 heavy refits, based off the MAD-3M.
Also, one that's almost Hunchback IIC tier:
Yanking the AC 2s/5s and the three tons of ammo off a Jagermech leaves exactly enough weight for two AC/20s and three tons of ammo.
>>47298173
>Jagermech with twin AC/20s
It's like made for pilot punishment duty, especially for those who have displayed cowardice in battle.
Hey Shimmy, when are the new unseen coming out?
>>47295957
>>47296001
Was idly thinking about this, and the mention of the Hopper reminded me that the Guillotine never gets the respect it deserves.
>>47296771
I think the never-ending politicking in the lead up, combined with the annoying shit they ran into, really inspired a lot of the hotheaded mistakes they made.
>>47299619
Not really. Their canned response was JAG HARDER for over 200 years.
It worked in the Homeworlds where everyone was either shit-scared, an ally, or usually beat them (really only the Wolves there) but once they couldn't limit their losses and rebuild from Trials they were fucked.
They specialised a bit too much.
>>47299684
Well yes really, much of their hastiness was written to have been in response to the observed crap they were dealing with.
>>47300824
Cool design, but it just doesn't look like a viper.
These mechs are all manlets. They look broad when angled properly, but then from the front they look like twigs.
>>47300936
what
>>47300936
Most of their miniatures look more bulky than their iron wind metals counterparts and about the same height, sometimes sightly taller.
>>47300691
Is the middle one supposed to be an Orion?
>>47301075
>>47301075
The IIC, yes.
>>47301075
An Orion IIC.
>>47301107
>>47301114
Of course.
>>47301102
>>47301075
>>47300805
Alas poor kodiak, you could have saved the clans. Laid low by inner sphere devs who decided that "clan tech" necessitated giving you 25 less structure points per part vs an Atlas even after making clan AC and lasers totally shit for moving targets.
MWO has some pretty designs, but the people up top keep it dead.
>>47297684
I like to slow the Orion down and upgrade it to Atlas-tier weapons.
>>47294590
Rough looking fella who spends all his time sharpening his knife and muttering about how someone is going to get what's coming to them. Never mentions the target's name or exact sin, and feigns ignorance if anyone brings it up. Seems friendly enough if spoken to directly.
Woman from the boondocks who attended a semi-prestigious academy and had a successful tour of duty. Proud of her modest success, and riding high. Hangs out with the technicians but has no technical skills.
An apprentice MechWarrior who tends a private garden-inna-shipping-container during transit. Hippy, probably narcotics, but industrious and (too) eager to help.
Security platoon, with each squad favoring a different Steiner-Davion for rulership of the Federated Commonwealth. Superstitious, they take any unusual success in their daily duties or recreation as signs that their favored candidate will come out on top, and misfortunes which affect the whole platoon as signs of the whole nation's fall.
>>47292232
Remind me: how do we know Katrina had no military service?
>>47301379
>Remind me: how do we know Katrina had no military service?
Is this like some clever ruse or are you joking?
>>47299597
The gilly's primary issue is that it doesn't have any damn hands.
Speaking of the Orion, has it ever been decided where the SRM4 actually is on the ON1-K? Record sheets say LT, art says LA.
>>47301379
Katrina most definitely had, but Katherine didn't. It's in FM: FS.
>>47301544
to add
>>47301544
im pretty sure the art that shows the arm mounted missiles is of another model. There are some with arm mounted missiles.
