>Be young shit Anon who had never played D&D before this.
>My big bro invites me over to play 3.5 with my future in-laws.
>His girlfriend played a Chaotic Good elf ranger.
>Her brother played a human nightblade, forgot the alignment.
>Their dad played a dwarf fighter, also forgot the alignment.
>I played a Neutral Good human mage.
>Mission is to take out bandits that were harassing a local town.
>Fight some giant spiders on the way there, discover there's drow working with the bandits.
>Defeat a group of drow priests and manage to keep one of them from dying.
>Bro's girlfriend decides to use melted sealing wax to torture information out of the priest.
>The priest eventually breaks and tells her everything he knows.
>Bro's girlfriend takes the rest of the melted sealing wax and pours it down the drow's throat, making him die an agonizing death.
>We all look at her like she's a psychopath while my Bro warns her not to pull that shit off again or else her alignment will forcefully change and she'll lose her character.
Never happened again, but I made it a point to never be alone in the same room as her.
Anyone got similar stories?
>>47210252
Sounds like the scum got what it deserved. Real life had more draconian ways of dealing with thieves and murders.
>>47210252
>she'll lose her character.
Yeesh.
Alignment change I get, but that's a bit much don't you think?
>>47210338
The Star Wars Saga edition had it where if you got too evil, AKA got a ton of dark side points, you lost your character. The GM now plays him as a villain and you get to make a new character.
>>47210429
That is a completely optional rule for games focusing around heros and outright says to not take it lightly as it kills an amount of player freedom.
It also tells you to implement it at the start of a campaign, not after the game gets under way. Also states outright that players should know you are using the rule.
>>47210516
I think that was why my bro gave her a warning, as opposed to changing it right then and there. If it helps, the alignment change would have been from CG to NE, which would put her at complete odds with the team, according to him.
>>47210563
To be honest, alignment in dnd usually should never come up except for how you act with your character and dm behind the scenes spell/item effects.
Only a handful of people get hung up on them, just like people who freak out when you make it past level 10.
>>47210252
That's pretty standard for new players. They spend a decade or two suppressing their violent urges because people dumb, violent animals that are supposed to act civilized, and it all comes flooding out as Chaotic Randumb nonsense as they realize they can do whatever they want in the game world and experiment with their newfound freedom.
Just off the top of my head I can think of a girl who shot some merc in the balls after breaking his legs and interrogating him (and this was after he swallowed his suicide pill), a guy who killed a baron or something because he wouldn't pay more for a crappy minor job the party did for him, a woman who went back and burned down a shopkeep's house/store because he was leering at her, a woman who poisoned a bunch of nobles for shits and giggles, and a number of times the PCs tortured and/or killed people for slight infractions like talking back.
Never allow players into situations where they have control over NPCs.
>>47210745
Se, I hear this and all I can imagine are people who should have received consoling instead of game time.
I have played for well over 15 years and I have yet to resort to torture, gone out of my way to take out anyone that was short of a mass murdering psychopath or commit atrocities.
What I have seen would be an abundance of gms that can not let their own power trip go long enough to allow the players to float the narrative. On the same note, I ave never seen a gm who was not so passive aggressive that their inevitable meltdowns could not have been described by any word other than nuclear.
One of the players is a surgeon IRL and plays herself basically, or how I imagine she would like to be if she could.
In game it translates to a plague doctor with a gruesome knack for unethical surgery and procedures, most notably and a frequent occurrence, lobotomies specifically the kind through the eye. She's good enough where she can actually pull it off in a grapple in no time at all to full success, and regularly does so. She calls it her "Friendmaker trick". Out of combat she uses it to threaten or interrogate people, but performs it on them regardless.
Creeps me out because she is happy to go into extreme detail about to do what she does in-game and how it works and what the effects are. Perhaps worst of all but I'm not certain, but I think she gets off on it too.
>>47210843
>attempts on demon
>lol that tickles
>demon takes her back to abyss for the fun time living wall decoration #3498
>>47210252
Are you trying to tell me the classic chaotic good antihero would -not- want the bad guy to die an agonizing death? The Punisher, Rorshach, etc. She has even more reason to do it because of racial hatred between elves and drow.
I get that the play didn't fit the group. But not fitting the alignment is just plain wrong.
>>47210252
>alignment shift = loss of character
Shit DM. A DM worth his salt can work with any situation.
>>47210801
Everyone has baggage, anon. It's just something you pick up as you go through life.
Do you live in North or South America? There's a long history of embarrassment relating to mental health issues in the region, so historically it's culturally been frowned upon to acknowledge that you or someone you know has psychological problems. Left untreated, said psychological problems get buried and are poorly managed by people who don't know much about good mental health. This usually doesn't matter because you can go a long time without anything more serious than private oddities and quirks manifesting, but once someone puts on the roleplay hat, their baggage is revealed to everyone at the table. This reveal is especially offensive in table-top RPGs both because you have the freedom to do whatever and because most people who play tabletop games are plainly dysfunctional or at least very socially awkward people anyway.
Mind you, I don't disagree they need counseling, but it's the norm in my experience.
>>47210563
>alignment is your character's concrete personality
Shit players but the alignment system is also fucking garbage. There's a reason why I don't use it in any of my games.
>>47210897
It was my bro's call. Now that I know more about this shit, I agree with you more, but at the time, the only person that had actual d20 experience was my bro, so we took his word.
>>47210897
Neither the Punisher nor Rorschach are chaotic good. They're more neutral.
>>47210938
As someone who works in mental health of minors and follow ups when they mature, I would say dismissing mental health issues as small personality quirks shows you have no clue what you are talking about.
Being an ass hat to see what happens in a game is one thing. Having a place to entertain violent fantasies and dismissing them out of hand is another.
If you have players that repeatedly make the choices of sociopaths or outright skip it and devolve into psychopaths, then it might say something about their mental health in general. If it is seen in all of those you have come into contact with, one might call into question what your society considers mentally healthy.
>>47210897
>Punisher
>Good
The only reason he's not evil is because he doesn't target innocents.
>>47211009
>>47211051
Even so, the act depicted shouldn't outright shift someone to evil. Those characters still have a set of morals that puts innocent lives above themselves.
>>47211032
I don't dismiss mental health issues as personality quirks. I said they don't usually manifest in meaningful ways [to people who are not the person with mental illness]. Otherwise, no arguments; I already acknowledged that people in general are fucked in the head, tabletop nerds are fucked in the head, and the societies I'm familiar with are fucked in the head.
>>47210925
>a quick way to spot a player who's never GM'd
>>47210252
>Your future in-laws
>Your brother's girlfriend
Did you steal your brother's girlfriend, anon?
>>47211740
No, and I wouldn't want to. I don't hate her, but she's too aggressive for my taste, and her smoking habit is not for me.
She's my sister-in-law, and I presume that makes her family my in-laws by my bro marrying into them.
I'm probably not using the term right.
>>47211740
if she marries his brother she and by extension her family are related to op by marriage, they are in-laws. the phrase does not apply exclusively to your spouse's family, it can apply to the family of any sisters or brothers in law you have, its just not commonly used in that capacity.
>>47210252
In-character that doesn't seem all that implausible, depending what relations between wood and drow elves are in-setting. There could be a lot of brutal history between them and the "CG" could feel justified in exacting vengeance upon the drow.
I guess manner in which the player described her actions could make it creepy enough to warrant such emotional response in you though.
>>47210252
Closest is that my half-elf warblade who was supposed to be neutral good had shit luck, got frustrated, and usually started screaming threats of increasing incoherency as his rage built.
He basically ended up being Donald Duck.
>>47213135
This. Especially for an elf, even a CG one, it wouldn't surprise me depending on the character background. Also, if you really have to use the alignement system, integrate a point system like Neverwinter Nights did. Gods, I hate the alignement debates.
On another note, every DM should at least ones do an evil campaign with his players.
Even if it's just a one-shot, giving the players an opportunity to play evil for once can be extremely rewarding and lberating for some.
Also, writing an evil campaign can be an interesting challenge for newer DMs.
>>47210326
Yeah, historically people have cheered at shit a thousand times edgier that your sonic OC character can imagine. Pretty fucked up shit that would make me puke. The edge of nowadays is over rated.
Said this, it is not polite to bring it to the table.
>be me
>play mostly wizards
>IC literally always bullied by martials for combat ineptitude and general fragility
>every time I reach a certain point where I have to resist having the wizard just take out his pent up frustration on non-magical enemies after combat
I understand that it would be passive aggressive of me to prove a point like that, but honestly the whole "hurr why are you here you pansy" is just begging for a humbling.
>>47214711
Wait for them to be overwhelmed and then destroy all the foes with your magic. Then ask them why they are there if they are so weak.
>>47214752
Eh. My wizards usually don't resort to pettiness and after a while the group warms up to them as it dawns on them that half the reason they've gotten this far is because of his knowledge and ability to deal with magical obstacles (which are numerous).
There was one incident where my wizards sacrificed himself to save the party and thereafter the two martials held great respect for the pointy-hatted bastards.
>>47210252
Nigger you do realize that the whole point of sealing wax is that it melts at a conveniently low temperature, right? Unless he fucking drowned in it, a swig of wax would be no worse than chugging hot chocolate. Your whole group is retarded.
>>47210897
Punisher and Roschach are neurtral.
A chaotic good character generally isn't into evil acts for the sake of good. They're just more willing to play fast and loose with rules.
Jakita Wagner is a chaotic good.
>>47214836
Fair enough then. That works too.
>>47214953
Was retarded. This was years ago, and the only person who knew shit was my bro.
>>47214953
I can drink water, but if it's boiling when you pour it down my throat, I ain't gonna be whistlin' Dixie. Also, the only thing I could quickly find about the melting point of sealing wax said: "This wax melts at approximately 200-230 degrees Fahrenheit, so it is recommended to be melted at low temperatures only." Water that's 150 degrees Fahrenheit will scald the crap out of you.
>>47210897
>Are you trying to tell me the classic chaotic good antihero would -not- want the bad guy to die an agonizing death?
I don't think you understand what "Good" means.
>>47215235
>>47210338
Depends on the game, really. If you want a heroic campaign and don't want things to devolve into constant infighting between party members of drastically different alignments, it makes sense. I would maybe be a bit more tactful than it sounds like he was though.
>>47215259
Thus always bugs me in comic books - an otherwise heroic and good character says they won't kill, but has no qualms about putting people into fates worth than death as revenge. One of the Flashes wouldn't kill an evil speedster, but instead of arresting and imprisoning him he drained the villain's speed (comic book logic) and left him in a museum as a living statue fully aware of what's happening around him but unable to speak or move. Snapping the guy's neck would have been kinder.
Same logic kind of applies with D&D characters. I've had plenty of people playing paladins who want to torture enemies to death instead of just putting them down quickly, which seems at odds with the Good part of their alignment.
>>47215389
I guess in a comic that doesn't really consider the dark side of things, being statue-ized wouldn't be horrible, mind-breaking torture, but instead just a really boring prison sentence.
>>47211032
Did you even read his post?
>>47210897
I am pretty sure that both of those characters would be lawful neutral. They have a personal code that they strictly adhere to, and they seem to straddle the line between good and evil.
My only problem is that I don't think melted beeswax is hot enough to kill anyone. The drow's death is unrealistic (and said drow probably does more painful and damaging things to himself when he jerks off). Unless you forcefed him gallons of hot wax until his stomach ruptured or if it sealed off his breathing passages and asphyxiated him I don't buy that this happened.
Source: I've done BDSM for years and find hot wax soothing after the initial shock.
>>47217776
>Source: I've done BDSM for years and find hot wax soothing after the initial shock.
Coolio.
From what I recall, the sealing wax down his throat was described as blocking the throat and being really hot.
>Be LG warlord in paladin-ish party (Highest spell level caster is Paladin/Sorc/DD, we just reached level 12)
>Be facing witch that can at-will SoD a target and immediately possess their (still living) body, if body is killed witch's soul will return to familiar
>In the middle of a war, same witch has unleashed lethal AoE spells on civilians
>Mfw she possesses an ancient dragon
>Mfw the party manages to nonlethal her into unconsciousness
>Mfw I have to bluff the party that I'll perform an "ancient ritual" (family is arcane casters from background) to seal the witch inside the dragon's body
>Mfw I'm actually blinding the dragon, removing wings legs but one stump with a single finger(to place and tie around a ring of sustenance), muzzle in mouth, chaining the whole thing into a room isolated except for small holes for air to pass through
>Mfw the only alternative is to kill the dragon's body and let the witch get away for free.
>>47218163
I could see it blocking the throat, but sealing wax melts at about 145 F (or about 60 C if you lack freedom). If you've ever drank coffee you've consumed hotter liquids than that.
>>47211032
>Sociopathy is a precursor state to psychopathy
I very much doubt that you work in mental health. You are a kindergarten teacher at best.
>>47215464
Lack of stimulation does horrible things to most people pretty quickly.
>>47218570
Just because it melts at some temperature doesn't mean you can't overheat it to a higher one.
Unless you get to the point it begins vaporizing...
>>47210516
>That is a completely optional rule
Uh, actually, in Saga, it isn't optional, it's the default (pg. 93, Saga core rulebook). Continuing to run the character anyway is the optional part that isn't even mentioned.
I think the West End Games version had a rule that was similar, but even harsher, since ANY time you gained a Dark Side point, even the first time, you might lose your character and have to make a new one.
>>47211051
>The only reason he's not evil is because he doesn't target innocents.
By D&D standards, Punisher is Evil anyway due to his methods.
Also by my standards.
I fucking hate him within the context of the superhero genre and really wish that he would always be treated as a supervillain not only in-universe, but by the writers of his comics as well.
Favorite scene ever in a comic, right here.
>>47218733
In the comic it was even explicitly meant to be torturous. Like, with the Flash being super smug about how it'll drive him insane. Granted, it'd been a few years since I read it, maybe it wasn't as awful in the text as in my memory.
>>47218999
i´ll pray for you anon, though our paths may never cross, i ll keep praying for you, so next time you decide to go out in the internet in a "full cuck mode" remember, i care for you, dont you ever disappoint me like this again.
>>47210338
Why would it even necessitate an alignment shift? All they did was maim/kill an Evil character, something that Good characters do all the time. Does it suddenly become Evil the second they start to take any pleasure in it?
>>47220110
"Be kind to the sick, gentle and compassionate; however, to the disease show no mercy."
In other words it's one thing to execute someone for capital crimes, but a complete other to do so callously. So yes, the moment you enjoy killing someone is the same moment you committed an evil act.
>>47220110
Yes.
>>47215389
After the shit that one pulled, I think Flash was happy with that outcome. Even set him to be pointed at Flash's statue for all time.
If the Flash was a PC, this is where the GM leans over and has to point out the same things as OP's DM.
>>47219671
Eat a fucking dick, bitchnigga.
>>47210252
Not yet, but I'm going to DM a religion where the prisoners just starve to death only to get back to life with Lay on Hands. They'll be asked if they want to join the religion and if they refuse the starvation will just continue without end.
Another method would be shoving a thick cloth down someone's throat and pour lots of water on that person's face until the cloth absorbs it all. The throat will try to drink it even though it can't. Then take the cloth out.
Or put a person in a wooden Demiplane and light it on fire. The description doesn't say what would happen if the demiplane would be destroyed.
For more inspiration try:The Spanish Inquisition and Salem Trials
Most cruel my main PC has gotten:
>investigating cultists
>come across one on his own, cooking
>end up in a fight after diplomacy fails (I almost always try diplomacy first)
>he taunts me in the fight about using human meat in his cooking
>I defeat him
>execute him with a sword straight through the neck when it's over
Never done anything like that before or again. My character's NG, my DM didn't see anything wrong with me doing that as a spur of the moment thing out of anger. (Cannibalism set him off, he's not usually brutal.)
Time to Gygaxpost for a periodic reminder that hardcore medieval LG is "culturally diverse" in ways that sheltered CN modern urbanites can't handle:
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth is by no means anything but Lawful and Good. Prisoners guilty of murder or similar capital crimes can be executed without violating any precept of the alignment. Hanging is likely the usual method of such execution, although it might be beheading, strangulation, etc. A paladin is likely a figure that would be considered a fair judge of criminal conduct.
The Anglo-Saxon punishment for rape and/or murder of a woman was as follows: tearing off of the scalp, cutting off of the ears and nose, blinding, chopping off of the feet and hands, and leaving the criminal beside the road for all bypassers to see. I don't know if they cauterized the limb stumps or not before doing that. It was said that a woman and child could walk the length and breadth of England without fear of molestation then...
Chivington might have been quoted as saying "nits make lice," but he is certainly not the first one to make such an observation as it is an observable fact. If you have read the account of wooden Leg, a warrior of the Cheyenne tribe that fought against Custer et al., he dispassionately noted killing an enemy squaw for the reason in question.
I am not going to waste my time and yours debating ethics and philosophy. I will state unequivocally that in the alignment system as presented in OAD&D, an eye for an eye is lawful and just, Lawful Good, as misconduct is to be punished under just laws."
>>47225553
Gygax was a dumbass about a lot of shit. That's fucking baby-tier, anyway. 'I'm not going to actually talk about it, I'll just say you're wrong and ignore you'. Fuck's sake.
>>47225780
"The one person who can definitively say how alignment worked is wroooooong!"
We had a group of level 1 characters, whose first quest was to deal with a bunch of goblins who were trashing the local farm folk's fields and orchards. Standard fare.
After dealing with the goblins, my Lawful Good paladin broke the shaman-leader's magical stick, cut out his tongue (being assured by the party caster that these would prevent his magic), and gave him to the farm folk as slave labour, to help rebuild the things he had destroyed.
Nobody had an issue alignment issue with this.
>>47210252
>Defeat a group of drow priests and manage to keep one of them from dying.
>Bro's girlfriend takes the rest of the melted sealing wax and pours it down the drow's throat, making him die an agonizing death.
So, as a group you'd finished slaughtering all his buddies - and were presumably about to go out and kill some more with the information you'd gained - but offing one more was enough for character-death?
>>47218570
Eventually you'll realize that you have freedom fries while others have liberty.
>>47228939
>So, as a group you'd finished slaughtering all his buddies - and were presumably about to go out and kill some more with the information you'd gained - but offing one more was enough for character-death?
>Pouring scolding hot was down an already defeated opponent, who was cooperating with you
>Not just slitting their throat
That does not like the sort of thing an evil person would do, and if the rules are that going evil offs your character. Well thats a good warning.
>>47228939
It was the way that my bro's girlfriend killed the drow that was the problem. Instead of just ending the drow with a stab or something, she poured really hot wax down a his throat in order to clog it and have him asphyxiate, not mentioning the potential burns.
>>47227610
Gygax also wrote about how you should always "play yourself" in D&D, which is stupid. Also, alignment languages. Also, demihuman level caps. Also, the increasing clutter of AD&D. The dude was not incapable of bad judgment.
>>47231536
Shes Chaotic Good thats what they fucking do
>>47235349
Toture-murder of someone helpless isn't 'what chaotic good does', you little shit.
>>47210252
Wax? Thats bondage not torture.
>>47218999
You're probably the kind of person who thinks the Joker deserves to live.
