How do you justify any other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?
Gun regulation.
>>47193471
You don't, if you're going for realism.
Otherwise, you need not look any further than a lot of stylized action films to gain inspiration on why throwing weapons (like knives/shuriken), melee weapons, unarmed combat, or even archery can have its place. And you can tweak the rules to reflect that.
Explosives and melee weapons are also effective.
>>47193471
I don't need to. Having a gun doesn't make beating or stabbing you to death any less effective.
>>47193503
>if you're going for realism
but people get stabbed all the time in the modern day
plenty get tazed, gassed and hit with beanbags, too
The best way to do that is to remove guns, but how to do that is an entirely different story.
You could say they were never invented or that they are impossible to manufacture anymore, but those methods are kinda difficult.
The best way I've seen is that some new technology or supernatural thing has made guns super easy to counter and therefore useless.
>>47193471
The rise of heavy metal continued without end, now the only weapons considered brutal enough involve fire, large amounts of explosives, and/or are oversized melee weapons.
Add a counter, such as power armor. Can slip a blade through the cracks in close combat, but small arms (especially non-AP) will have more trouble.
>>47193471
Make them less available and lower the scale of your conflicts. So everyone is a civilian or something.
Have it so guns are still top dog but they're rare, expensive on the black market, and illegal. On top of that make swords culturally significant. Like Sikhs. It's expected of you to carry one around.
Alternatively,magic
There you go.
>>47193471
Enchanted weapons, left over from an age when magic was much more plentiful. Some enemies can only be harmed by them.
>>47193685
>Make them less available and lower the scale of your conflicts. So everyone is a civilian or something.
Only in very few countries is it actually all that hard to get a gun. Even in most Euro countries it isn't that difficult if you have a clean record, and that's before you get into illegal means of acquiring them, which is even easier.
>>47193848
It's often easy enough to legally acquire a gun, but you can't just walk around with it everywhere you go. Assuming a modern-day setting where your PCs have some sort of civilian life, it's easy to spring ambushes on them when they're not carrying and restrict the gunplay to specific operations that they initiate.
There's been tests, if the knife wielder is within a straight line of 10 feet he will get you every time with the knife.
Knifegun master race.
>>47193471
>Australia
You don't know the crazy hoops I have to jump through to own and use my semi-auto rifles and handguns.
>>47193471
If the RPG is a tactical combat game there is no other reason.
any other game type, guns are tiny mcguffins
What type of game u runnin?
>>47193908
>Texas
>The America of America.
>>47193471
Magic tends to unbalance things enough that more or less anything is possible.
In my setting, there are lots of races that are so physically tough that guns aren't as effective against them as, say, an enchanted sword. Due to the way magic works, a large piece of metal like a blade can hold much more magic than a small piece like a bullet, so enchanting guns isn't nearly as practical.
Guns still have a place, indeed, are dominant weapons for mortals, but they're not exclusive.
/k/ here
>>47193471
>How do you justify any other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?
If you're being realistic, guns are the best class of weapons in the world, so you'd have to be in a country where they're very difficult to get.
If you don't care about realism:
Super powers
Power Armor
Energy Sheilds
ect.
>>47193524
It does when you get shot from across the room.
>>47193907
It was 21 feet. And that had nothing to do with knives.
It shows the advantage that a prepared attacker has over an unprepared defender.
>>47193908
You guys still have like 2 million illegal firearms floating around.
Paddies, beaners, wops, negroes, and greasers.
>>47194017
Don't forget suburban/ghetto white trash.
>>47193995
>You guys still have like 2 million illegal firearms floating around.
Nah, not that many, the best estimates I've seen around around 250k long arms and 10k handguns floating around illegally
>>47194057
There was a study done very recently (this week iirc) that determined it was actually 2 million.
>>47193848
Just model it on those few countries then.
And/or this >>47193885
Convenience is also something to consider. As long as it's harder to get and carry around firearms people will just stick to shanking and bring out the guns on a special occassion or someone high enough on their shit list. If we have everyone carrying swords like Sikhs then doubly so because they can just gang up on a victim and shank them to death. No weapon concealment needed.
>>47194070
Source it then
>>47193907
>>47193995
/k/ here also, no it was a prepared defender and a prepared attacker, within 10 feet the guy with the gun will go down against a furious knife-wielder everytime, the gunman will go down no more than eight out of ten.
>>47194107
Can't find it.
Sorry.
>>47194133
>/k/ here also, no it was a prepared defender and a prepared attacker, within 10 feet the guy with the gun will go down against a furious knife-wielder everytime, the gunman will go down no more than eight out of ten.
What are you talking about?
>>47194169
I forget who commissioned it, It was not the Mythbusters or some shit, but a study was done to find out the safe 'legal' distance to shoot somebody. If you shoot too early and there is too much distance you are charged with murder as the distance shows there was no clear danger to your life, if you wait too long until he is closer you risk your own life.
So they tried to find out what a comfortable distance was that balances both these, fifteen feet was decieded as a good range to defend yourself within. That is if somebody with a knife is within 15 feet you are relatively safe in putting him down. In which case you administer the djabooti shooti.
>>47193471
>SHIELD, DEFENSIVE: the protective field produced by a Holtzman generator. This field derives from Phase One of the suspensor-nullification effect. A shield will permit entry only to objects moving at slow speeds (depending on setting, this speed ranges from six to nine centimeters per second) and can be shorted out only by a shire-sized electric field
>In shield fighting, one moves fast on defense, slow on attack ... Attack has the sole purpose of tricking the opponent into a misstep, setting him up for the attack sinister. The shield turns the fast blow, admits the slow kindjal!
>>47194248
Well you're certainly retarded enough to be from /k/
>>47194296
Aww
>>47194256
>Modern
>>47193471
Modern fantasy setting: magic barriers/enchanted items are good against bullets. You can't enchant bullets, but you can enchant big chunk of metal like swords and shit.
"Modern" post-apocalyptic setting: guns and ammo are good but scarce, or really bad and loud and unwieldy or attract zombies.
Modern setting: guns are good, but shooting that maniac with a giant axe will be difficult and super stressful, especially in his dark and spooky dungeon with many tunnels and corners.
>>47193471
If you're in military? Use guns and no need to invent anything fancy.
If you're a simple wage slave who suddenly finds himself between a rock and a hard place and mafia threatens to kill your family? You probably can't find good guns easily (maybe except in Murrica).
You don't always want realism in games, sometimes you need drama/story/rule of cool. Maybe you want a Hotline Miami/Drive game, maybe you want spooky Call of Cthulhu game etc.
>>47193907
>>47194133
>>47194248
Tueller Drill. Based on tests done with the SLC PD in the early 80s. 21ft is the cutoff distance where a knife armed assailant can reach you before you can draw, aim, and doubletap center mass. It wasnt a scientific test so much as hashing out a guideline for when its acceptable to shoot somebody with a knife. It quickly became an informal law taught or at least mentioned in every police academy.
When i was going through MP school, I was told that within 10ft officers were only able to shoot and hit 15% while getting injured over 80% of the time. Dont know where those figures came from, so take it with a grain of salt.
>>47194320
Incorporating the holtzman effect into an otherwise modern setting is no less outlandish than zombies, magic, or any other suggestion so far
While wre'e on the subject of guns and limiting their use in campaigns, remember the "rule of 7s". Depending on who you ask, it's also called the rule of 6s, but I hear 7s more.
Most gunfights are 7 yards apart, last 7 seconds, and fire 7 rounds.
Big action movie firefights are unrealistic, unless you're playing a military campaign. Because getting shot is kind of disruptive to one's day.
Instead of trying to nerf them, try making them more hazardous and lethal - give the players a good reason to avoid having guns come out, and have antagonists who also have a realistic want to avoid being shot at.
>>47194591
It has been shortened, not for practicality but by legality.
>>47193471
Brits still mount bayonet charges. Even clapistanians use them sometimes, just google "marines fallujah"
>>47193471
>How do you justify any other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?+ 0 post omitted.
This is the kind of question only noguns fags ask.
>>47193471
One of the main problems RPGs have is that there is no escalation of force in them.
Typically all a player has is their single "best" kill move and not a whole lot else.
This means when combat breaks out they pull out their axe of +2 decapitation, use their special move of neck rending, and in general try to full out murder someone regardless of the provocation for example so someone is trying to mug them with a pocket knife.
In order to get players to scale back from super murder hobos you need to make sure the situations they are interesting or threatening, but where their death is not the main goal.
That mugger has no real intention of killing the PCs he just wants to get whatever loose change or jewelry the players have and book it.
You also should put in repercussions for escalating a situation far more than it needs to and reward players when they make appropriate decisions.
In this mugging situation some acceptable solutions would be talking the guy down, scaring him off, disarming him of his weapon, pinning him and calling the authorities, running away, causing a commotion so police are called, knocking him out.
Unacceptable solutions would include pulling out an anti-material rifle from your own personal pocket dimension and then proceeding to kill the guy and the building behind him.
A good step to limit guns and stuff is to put players in situations where being heavily armed has major social draw backs.
For example the area in America where I live you can buy and open carry pretty much any non-automatic weapon, and conceal carry (with license) pretty much any small fire arms.
That being said if you walked down the street with that shit people would avoid, and pretty much all private businesses would kick you out, and not to mention that at the slightest provocation someone would call the police on your ass for "brandishing a firearm" in a threatening manner which is highly illegal.
>>47194709
At ATR Lichfield, there was a Corporal who had received the order to fix bayonets, never used them but they thought it was hairy enough to get them attached.
>>47193471
"is it fun?"
If the answer is yes, that's all I need.
>>47193471
what about that US army guy from Desert Storm with confirmed kills with his officer sword?
>>47194893
Was just a myth. The last known sword kill in a conventional conflict was in the second world war.
>>47193471
The enemy cannot fire his gun if you disable his hand
>>47194893
>>47194925
Was a joke, US Marine bought an NCO sword and took it to his deployment and chased off a goat-fucker.
>>47193471
Legality, availability and concealability mostly.
Not every modern setting needs to take place in America, and in most places open carrying a rifle is going to attract a lot of suspicion even if it is legal.
>>47194154
http://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=08a6a540-7ca8-40a6-8e60-e899f0536743&subId=299062
2 million to 200k.
Obviously they don't know exactly how many, but even 200k is a fuckload
>>47193639
>a knife will go through but not bullets!
We're going for modern not Dune.
Or one could just have the campaign take place in such close quarters, like a tunnel system or trenches, that guns are no longer a practical choice. And a lot of more psychopathic characters in more modern works prefer the more personal feel of going after someone with a dirk or aa axe.
>>47194985
The question is about other weapons, though. Anywhere a rifle would look odd, so would a battle axe.
>>47193471
Having your game set in Japan.
>>47193471
Bees and hornets kill more people than guns.
>>47195384
But knives and arrows will actually penetrate the types of kevlar vests that will stop pistol bullets. (Although there is knife resistant protection available and the kind of body armour that stops rifle ammo will usually have solid plates that stop knives and arrows as well.)
>>47196837
>your game set in Japan.
>>47197014
>Bees and hornets kill more people than guns.
So... we get a gun, that shoots japanese hornets at people!
>>47197104
This. Depending on how the kevlar is woven, it will stop blades or bullets but not both.
>>47193547
> but
>>47193493
Not that hard. Regulation, close-quarters combat situations, being caught off guard, cultural ideas of honour or status... Basically all the reasons people still get shanked these days.
You crazy Americans and your guns and fast cars.
>>47193471
Seffle particles!
>>47193471
When someone's within 30 ft of you, a gun isn't very effective compared to a big knife.
See this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk
Notice how even after they shot him, which was very difficult at close range and with him running around, he still didn't go down. It took a good 2 or 3 shots to take him down. Yeah well is nice to have a bayonet or something to spear the guy who's charging you.
Also explosives like claymores are great for defense. I like to also look beyond infantry combat and look at bombs, rockets, AT missiles, gun-launched missiles, FUCKING LASERS, and weapons like frag and flashbang grenades.
>>47193471
Firearm carrying laws and licenses. And true that guns are more common, but hey if you make a campaign inside a larp it would have only swords axes daggers and bows :D
>>47193471
Give your PCs access to explosives.
>>47197517
What this tells me is that I can expect to successfully knife to a death a guy with a gun, but I won't be walking away either.
Knives are practical weapons. They're easy to carry, easy to conceal, silent and don't need ammo.
>>47193471
Fuckton of enemies with no guns? As soon as running out of ammo becomes a possibility, you begin to reconsider other means of killing shit.
>>47194954
This nigga.
Stealth. Even with suppressors, guns are LOUD. There are plenty of situations where the PCs most likely don't want to attract attention.
Wait, like realistically? You don't.
Slightly less realistic?
>exoskeleton suits are a thing, users found out It's easier to use melee than waste ammo on each other
>assasination squad doesn't need any guns
fuck realism, yo
>we came to live in the age of gentlemen, and degenerates who use guns make even the baddest motherfuckers gasp
>stupid overpowered martial arts are a thing
For the same myriad of reasons non-militarymen don't always use guns?
I mean, if your campaign is about soldiers, then yeah non-gun is kibda retarded.
If you're a civilian, or especially a low level gangster you might not want to use a gun... street scuffles are not always meant to be lethal and a gun is a severe escalation of force.
Aka : You beatdown a guy, you just had a point to pass. You shoot a guy, and you got yourself marked for death by his gang and relatives.
>>47193471
fights are not to the death. you don't use guns if you just want to beat up someone. assault is one thing, murder is another.
escalation. you don't bring a gun so other side doesn't bring a gun too, and you don't risk your precious life.
close quarters. in windy corridors and stuff melee weapons are superior.
>>47193471
At very close range, it's difficult to hit with a gun (inside arms reach). You can't defend yourself effectively and your mates can't fire for fear of hitting you.
If you close the gap, because of armour, surprise, superior numbers or supernatural fortitude, guns suddenly become worse.
Also, ammo, reliability and noise.
>>47193995
>It does when you get shot from across the room.
That assumes the situation is always in the gunman's favor.
Believe me I understand in a straight up tactical situation a dude running across the room with a sword drawn is going to get gunned down and would rightly deserve it. But close quarters where you would have trouble bringing your weapon to bear against a knife or similar type weapon or someone with strong hand to hand skills you'd be hard press unless you can shoot him before you are either disarmed or injured/killed
Well, when I was in the army, I was told that when surprised by someone with anything other than a gun, you're supposed to smash his face in with the rifle, THEN switch the safety thing (or whatever It's called in english) off, reload and go from there.
I was also taught to react by kicking the opponent, as to push myself down, and shoot from there.
Granted, our superior seemed to be a bit on the crazy side but back then It also seemed to be pretty legit
Play Yakuza games, OP.
Guns are so fucking illegal, the most ruthless motherfucker around is known for having a knife as a weapon. Whenever someone actually brandishes a gun, you fucking know shit just got really fucking serious
>>47199575
Fucking this. Non tg but sleeping dogs does that right for a modern gangster game.
>>47193471
Well if the characters are stealthy criminals or commandos you might wants knives, saps and garrotes for sneakily taking guys out.
Guns really are an optimal weapon but good adventures usually don't take place in optimal scenarios. Just don't make the game all about gear and loot. The players have to make do with whatever tools they have.
They might be farmers in some shit end of the world with only a few crappy shotguns and box or two of ammo. A couple guys will just have to make do with machetes.
They might be under watch by a shadowy organisation and can't afford to carry any suspicious gear. Hell in just a regular city setting you can't go walking around with your biggest dakka and bandoleers of ammo.
And, of course, sometimes players get caught with their pants down and have to fight back up to normal, see: Jackie Chan and most horror movies.
Other than that it depends on how you play your game.
Hotline Miami has you using swords and baseball bats because you're in very close quarters already and your pumped up on berserker, psycho insanity.
Or guns could just be middling crutch for people without SUPER KUNG-FU. After a certain point in your martial journey simple, melee weapons become a better channel for you fighting spirit.
Like others said the world may have super body armour or personal force fields
Put it in modern-day London
So your only weapons will be rocks and sticks
>>47193471
Depends on the weapon and the enemy you're fighting. Generally the fact that guns run out of ammo, but knives and clubs don't, makes at least having a back-up melee weapon a good idea.
>>47200012
Dude, there are tons of stabbings in London. Carrying knives may be illegal but carrying a gun (or something that looks like a gun, or possibly a table leg) will get you shot instead of arrested.
>>47200066
London police officers don't even have guns
>>47200377
MOST of London police officers don't carry guns.
If someone's seen carrying a gun and they're not an officer, 20 SWAT team equivalents bumrush them and ventilate everyone in the area.
Also, there are plenty round the houses of parliment and posh areas with H&K MP5s and the likes.
>>47200066
Table leg guy was Irish so he had it coming
>>47200377
Essentially this
>>47200422
In the UK if you have a knife they send Old Officer Harrison down to talk to you and/or taze you. If you have a gun they send the MP5 deathsquad at you in an armoured van.
>>47193604
>Ork Society
>>47200474
Just try and commit suicide by gun, you'll end up getting shot by a cop here
>>47193548
Like a Dune situation?
>>47197517
Police get a shit sandwich when it comes to dealing with hostile activities-
>Lack of/bare minimum of marksmanship and maintenance of weapons
>Attempt to de-escalate situation at risk of ones own life
>Modus is often to capture criminals alive.
(I have a lot of respect for their bravery)
Life is a lot simpler in the military when it comes to dealing with hostiles, when you spend enough time in there you end up training everything and damn near anything when it comes to self preservation of yourself, your team and handling weapons. While I'm quite a rubbish shot with a rifle, I am extremely nasty when it comes to handguns, carbines and submachineguns, because for about 5 months we ran course after course on marksmanship, kicking in doors, dealing with hostiles and maintaining a very cohesive team that did that day after day to the point it was a reflex action- then when we deployed, we often did that shit day after damn day
So we'd end up with anything from a house full of gun wielding crazies, grenades, harsh language, knives, sharp objects, smoke, fire and heck, I've even had one arsehole bust out of nowhere and try to murder me with a shovel.
Most of that is at ranges of about 5-30ft and it comes down to Aggression, Training and Marksmanship. We're not there to 'detain' or listen to your shit, anyone who doesn't get on the floor in 2 seconds is going out feet first
It also really does come down a willingness to either pull the trigger or engage in the lunacy of stabbing people with sharp objects. Some people have it, most people don't, it is a major mental activity to engage in combat with other people. Lot goes on up there in the ol brain- fear, adrenaline and a fair few other primal emotions. The guy with the cool head- he's the real risk
The magical '30ft rule' doesn't apply to someone who really knows what they're doing with a gun- you will probably die
Untrained and the barely competent people however, will be in the shit.
>>47201081
How many children have your killed?
>>47194985
>>47196033
In addition to the legality, availability, and conceal-ability of firearms, there's also that for other weapons.
There are laws regarding what size blades are legal to carry, and walking around with a big sword could get a similar response (especially from police) as walking around with a long gun, again also depending on the state and/or region.
Fuck, being armed in general tends to draw suspicion.
I'd say for modern settings, just have an in-world reason as to why people would walk around with guns and swords or other weapons.
>>47201081
>Life is a lot simpler in the military when it comes to dealing with hostiles
Kind if a topical problem, too, since most new US sheriffs and police are military drop-outs or vets. It has been often cited as a major cause for the rise in police brutality and unreasonable use of force.
>>47193471
>other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?
Dumping IRL examples
>>47201407
>>47201452
>>47201467
>>47201407
>>47201407
I don't understand why anyone thinks we don't use melee weapons anymore?
>>47194954
>>47193471
How about home defense in any country with harder gun restrictions than USA?
I live in a apartment in rough neighborhood in a nordic country and my home defense arsenal consists of:
1x hand-and-a-half sword
1x naval cutlass
1x axe
5x knife
Hand-and-a-half sword on the wall in the bedroom, cutlass on the wall in my living room, axe and three knives stashed in a wardrobe along with my hiking/bug-out bag and the two other knives are at the moment right next to me since i just finished sharpening them.
Closest thing i have to a firearm is a old and worn out one-shot break-action BB pistol that i got from a friend when he upgraded.
>>47193471
Anything that has ever killed a human is still just as effective... if you can get within range. So it's defending against the guns that's the problem.
>>47201104
Clearly not enough, as you're still able to post.
>>47193471
When killing it with fire or explosives is a better alternative.
Could be a lack of funds for some characters. College kids/teens may have to improvise.
Maybe the combat's a predetermined brawl with strict rules, i.e., footie hooligans, fat chicks around a cake, samurai hobos, etc.
Cinematic display of guns jamming all the time. Or the guns get snatched up and vanished by gulls/crows/berserker lolis as soon as they're revealed.
>GMs
>justify
>to players
OP confirmed for non-player.
>>47193471
>How do you justify any other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?
Explosives pack even bigger punch
Guns are noisy as fuck. Fire them off, you alert the entire building and locals freak out and start calling the police.
>>47193471
Garrotes are a good way to subtly remove sentries as they leave no blood and produce less sound than suppressed gunshot.
Also, guns are not very efficient at non-lethal takedowns, they're not that nice aboard planes etc etc etc.
But most of these situations go: Primary: Firearm, Backup: Garotte/Knife/Your sick karate skills.
>>47194248
>>47194133
I keep reading your fucking posts and they keep making me angry because I can see the outline of an idea, but I can't understand it through the retardation. Why don't you learn to write clearly? Do you realize you can't get across a simple idea in plain english? Your posts make me wonder how many people I know who seem normal but are actually totally retarded, and can only think in some kind of impenetrable mongoloid stream of consciousness. You're a real piece of shit.
>>47193604
I love it.
>>47193471
Haven't we already had this thread? Multiple times?
>>47205611
Probably. Why, is there a rule against talking about things multiple times?
>>47205439
>Garottes
>No blood
You do not garotte correctly.
WW2 spies used garottes for QUICK, emergency kills as they near instantly behead a sentry... but its SUPER messy.
>>47193907
>knife is in a hand
>gun is in a holster
Now do the opposite while I'm laughing at you.
>>47206377
Depends on the garotte, wire design would obviously leave blood. Other designs might not.
>>47198684
This is true of any knife fight.
If it isn't you murdering an unarmed man, you are pretty much going to bleed no matter what.
>>47206377
>>47206417
>>47205439
Silk cord garrotes generally don't cause bleeding, leather, sinew, and wire garrotes generally will.
If the GM has to justify something to the players and doesn't do it organically over the course of the sessions, either you have nitpicky, asshole players, you are a horrible GM, or the players have spent nearly a whole session trying to do something horribly stupid and they won't take the FUCKING hint.
>>47194893
There was a confirmed kill with an MRE spoon in Iraq.
>>47193471
Batons, Tazers and Capsicum Spray because the party are Police.
>>47193471
For whatever reason, you don't want to kill the other guy.
>>47193471
Have the capability lie in the user and not the weapon.
Don't go for realism.
I don't know about Modern but theses are my two favorite gun stops in Sci-fi
Take a page from Legend of the Galactic Heroes and fill a combat zone with magic dust that blows up and kills everyone if some one fires a gun
Because Science
Take a page from Dune and have people wear personal over shields that can block bullets and lasers but not knifes to the guts
Because Science
>>47211968
Take a page from hard-scifi (of relatively low tech) and say that using guns on a space-station or a ship might break something vital and kill everyone on board.
>>47212039
That one isn't all that fun and can be easily counter with guys who doesn't really care about breaking things
>>47193471
Limited availability of ammo. Fits more with a post-apoc world, but might not come by easily (good ammo, maybe the shady market has lots of less-than-stellar rounds with only half the gunpowder for saving money or rounds that jam easily because they are not within acceptable tolerances....)
Also what kind of guns, a pistol has a very different function from a rifle.
>>47193471
A stab to the vitals with a longsword does a 1d8, a shot to the vitals does 1d8.
Don't play d&d
>>47212546
Well getting hit by a longsword is equallt as lethal as being shot. You can also stab in the vitals with the sword, so keep that in mind.
>>47193471
Katanas can cut a tank in half
>>47212546
If it's to the vitals its either a crit, coup de grace, or a rogue's sneak attack, right? >>47212681 and what this guy said
>>47206391
10 ft knife still wins.
21 ft obviously gun wins.
>>47199914
Also a good way of nerfing guns in there
Every bullet is made of sodding rubber
>>47212912
>knife still wins
Yeah, no.
In world war 1, the gun was less favored by strosstruppen/stormtroopers and Trench Raiders compared to a melee weapon and a grenade. Trench raiding calls for infiltrating enemy lines during the night and engaging in decisive combat against isolated segments of the trench.
In these situations, it makes less sense to engage in a gun battle against a better defended and more numerous opponents; and in this particular case the grenade is its self a stealthy weapon. This is because distant artillery detonations sound the same as nearby grenade detonations, and so a pop down the trench was so common you ignored it.
Grenades also double as old-timey flashbangs if your opponents don't die from fragments, so its easy to rush in after a detonation and take down disoriented soldiers with a shovel. Bosnian soldiers fighting for Hungry would use a mace to finish off enemies incapacitated by gas as well, that's more of a bullet saving maneuver.
If you need to make even more room for melee in settings with guns, just have advances in ballistic armors force attackers to avoid the armor with harder precise shots or tackling your encumbered opponent and stabbing them in unprotected areas. It helps if you accept the pistol as a cqc weapon as well, I feel like it would count if you tackled a modern knight and pushed the barrel against his eye slit to take him out.
Gunfu in general is a fun compromise where both shooting ability and martial strength come into play, and allow a great excuse for hand to hand combat if the fight lasts longer than the magazine allows.
TL;DR
>WW1
>Chinese Action Movies
>>47213289
I'd imagine that a good part of this, though, was that nobody got to pick and choose their own weapons, pretty much everybody got a big, heavy bolt action rifle about as long as a man is tall, end of discussion.
While such a rifle might do a good job of shooting at poor bastards running across no man's land, it wouldn't be of much use to the poor bastards doing the running, nor would it be all that much use actually fighting inside the trench. Better to leave it behind and hope for the best with a bomb and a knife or something than lug an extra ten pounds directly into machinegun fire.
>>47213383
point being it kind of falls apart when you start having player characters and they "acquire" a brace of pistols or get so swole they start lugging around a maxim gun or something.
You're in a country where they're not allowed?
You have no training in using a gun?
You're not out there to kill, just intimidate?
You can't afford one?
You want a weapon that is harder to trace, as forensics can do a lot with spent bullets these days?
>>47213383
Trench Raiders had more control, which is why they scooped up more pistols than there available to most other soldiers other than officers.
There's also the issue that long weapons, like the full length rifles you describe with added bayonets, actually do poorly in the trench. The club or trench spike were much better because they could kill someone through a helmet without getting tangled in nonsense.
Thinking about it, everything is getting smaller. After the first world war they all switched to carbine bolt actions, then to early battle/assault rifles, and now we're shortening those rifles into modern carbines. Even the US army is switching from the German Shepherd to the Belgian malinois. Full size M-16 and Shepherd to Carbine M4 and Malinois; the future is full of even smaller AR-15 rifles and smaller dogs.
>>47213453
>Trench Raiders had more control, which is why they scooped up more pistols than there available to most other soldiers other than officers.
And then there's this asshole...
>>47213474
>life_before_machine_guns.jpg
>>47193471
No gun powder.
>>47213474
>Just another day in the KuK army
>>47213474
>LOCAL PLAYER SAYS "FUCK THE GM"
>>47213474
I'm dumbfounded, I have no idea what the actual fuck that is. Jury rigged AA?
>>47213539
Guns coexisted with the knight and are older than full plate. The gun more changed the economics of war than the role of ranged weapons. While less lethal, crossbows and longbows were already dangerous for knights to charge for quite some time before.
>>47213605
I know the history of the gun. The OP was talking about getting around guns in a modern setting.
Gunpowder has been around for nearly a thousand years but it replaced all other forms of ranged weaponry in the last few hundred years.
Guns enabled the common man with no training to surpass a trained elite who dedicated their life to combat.
Before firearms, it took everything to win a battle. Now, all that matters is if you can blow the other guy up from a safe distance.
>>47213696
more like
>now all that matters is if you can get more, better trained, better motivated dudes with reasonably current equipment all herded into one place and under halfway competent command than the enemy can
which is basically the same as it's always been since the dawn of man.
>>47193471
Feng Shui includes kung fu, magic, and martial arts as equally viable means of combat alongside firearms.
>>47193471
Energy shields that do not allow high speed objects through
>>47213781
>not using Feng Shui itself as a martial art.
Strategic manipulation of the environment to cause spiritual damage to an opponent via subtly manipulating the flow of metaphysical energies in the immediate surroundings to concentrate maximum tailored disharmony upon a single target.
>master general/interior designers using their skillset on a grand strategic scale to subtly alter the course of wars.
>>47213898
You've never heard of the feng shui game then. Manipulating chairs and tables is far too small for the level of chi flow that goes into a typical feng shui game. To properly manipulate things weigh on a game level you need to rearrange buildings. I'm not making that up. There are factions in the fence way game devoted to blowing up things that channel chi.
>>47213991
Neat.
>>47213991
Never trust your phone's speech-to-text function with Fang sway.
>>47193995
>guns are the best class of weapons in the world
>Bringing a gun to a drone fight.
>>47214925
>bringing a drone to anything other than to what the Brits already pulled during the Third Anglo-Afghan War.
>>47193885
You can't walk with a sword in those countries either.
>>47215497
I live in Denmark, and I can tell you that you're hilariously wrong.
Denmark is perhaps one of the top five or even three countries in the world with the strictest gun regulations, and yet you can get a bladed-weapons permit ("blankvåbenstilladelse", if you want to confirm it) without much trouble, usually from being in a reenactment troupe or taking courses in fencing or the like. It takes little paperwork or background checking, and you can freely walk around with the weapon in public if you so desire.
There are already plenty of things such as axes and saws that are perfectly legal to carry around and can't really be illegalized, so it makes sense that something that the cops can deal with just as easily, is harder to get and is almost equally effective at hurting people is under loose regulation.
>>47213991
A war that's based on very precise bombings, then?
>>47213991
get on my level
>>47216174
>what is civil planning?
war of bureaucratic red-tape.
>>47195206
>but even 200k is a fuckload
There are probably a handful of people with a fuckload of guns messing with the overall accessibility.
>>47194709
>Brits still mount bayonet
>bayonet
I need to go into business making under barrel shotguns named bayonets.
>>47194256
But wait, didn't Duncan die in the movie when a sardaukar shot him with a regular chemically-propelled bullet through his shield?
>>47199878
When I was in the army (I got kicked out for being crazy before long) they told us cqc was primarily for setting up a situation were they can get shot.
>>47193471
Flamethrowers are pretty great for dealing with modern horrors. Killing it with fire is very satisfying.
>>47197014
>>47201081
>kicking in doors
How often could you just go and open them?
>>47193995
>/k/ here
fun's over folks
>>47201650
I like my odds of outrunning a guy with a knife a lot better than outrunning a bullet.
>>47197014
Guns kill very few people. It's mostly bullets.
>>47217492
Have all the guns be 3d printed pieces of shit, so normal people use knives and other tools, and proper guns are rare as hell.
>>47193471
>How do you justify any other weapons besides guns in a modern setting?
Everyone in the setting is blind and deaf.
That's all I've got.
>>47217655
>Everyone in the setting is blind and deaf.
I could still buy a gun.
>>47193471
Most importantly, guns are quite poor at keeping a fight non lethal or at least low likelihood of being lethal in a way blunt weapons and electrical weapons excel at.
Sound level is also an important consideration, since there is still quite a bit of noise involved even with a suppressed firearm shooting a short, fat, subsonic round.
Legal status, length/maneuverability, concealability, ultra long endurance, self manufacture, local availability or even simple having a person around can all also justify such a usage.
There are also some special circumstance like spacecraft, or industrial facilities that process, handle or generate as a side effect of operations explosive gasses or aerosols (e.g. grain mills, oil rigs, NG power plants). You have to use other types of weapons in such a place not because the other weapons are good, but because guns are stupid.
>>47217949
But nobody would be able to make them. So, no, you couldn't buy one.
Post-Apocalyptic, but the apocalypse was caused by magic and monsters re-entering the world and destabilizing society. Humanity is rebuilding.
Small arms aren't particularly effective against monsters because their bodily systems are resilient against going into shock from taking a gunshot with lots of redundancies. Basically you're better off taking a sword to a monster than you are shooting it unless you're using some very heavy duty munitions.
>>47193471
Stalingrad-style.
So it's not guns that are hard to get, they are more plentiful than people fighting with them. It's the ammo that is in very short supply.
>>47194720
>I could tell you, but I'm too enlightened
Quality post there mister.
>>47215949
>needing a permit for a blade
Holy shit what a draconian shithole.
>>47218677
Enjoy your sky-high homicide rate.
There's just no way about the fact that the US and its loose weaponry laws result in the country's towering homicide rate, and you can look at the statistics if you disbelieve me. Norway and Denmark are good countries to compare to - the left-leaning government (compared to the US) and the stricter weapons regulations mean that the homicide rates per capita are far, far lower, even when you include knives.
The US has the idea that everyone is allowed to possess tools needed to effectively kill other people, and that criminals can automatically cause a shotgun to appear in their hands as soon as they decide to turn to crime. Criminals will get their hands on weapons, yes, but regulating them ensures that fewer criminals will get their hands on less dangerous weapons. On top of that, it allows the police to arrest people for possessing weapons without a permit, thus preempting the crime instead of them needing to wait politely until the criminal kills someone.
Joe Prepper in Tennessee isn't going to use those four automatic rifles, five military surplus landmines and crate of concussion grenades to hunt varmints, and that's why you don't let him buy them in the first place. That means he's less likely to get weapons at all, more likely to get fewer, worse weapons and that the police can arrest him before he uses his stash to shoot up most of a town's population in his belief that they're space Jew-lizards from Hell.
>Not just going super soft sci-fi and fantasy where every character from gun user, laser gunner, knife guy, cyborg ninja with shurikans and people with rocket hammers all fight on an even level just because
Get on my level.
>>47218825
I don't want to turn this into an argument, but you're stupid.
When actually adjusting for population and location; United States has very low homicide rates outside of the major cities. Small towns all around the country have homicides per capita comparable to the safe European countries. Do you know where the high murder rates come from?
The big cities. That typically have the most strict gun and weapon laws.
It has nothing to do with availability of guns and everything to do with demographics, culture, gang warfare, and so on.
And more importantly; it is irrelevant how much good you claim or believe that restricting gun sales would do for 'Joe Prepper's' mental health and keep him from doing mass shootings. Do you know why?
Shall
Not
Be
Infringed
Please get it through your skull.
>>47213750
yes, but now a militia can be almost as effective as a trained fighting force, even the worlds greatest military power can get bogged down by angry civilians with AKs and RPGs
>>47218825
yeah lets just ignore poverty, education and literally every other factor.
>>47218825
>sky high homicide rate
>about double belgium's ca. 2013
like, however afraid you are of getting shot in belgium by anyone other than terrorists, that's about half as afraid you should be of getting shot in the US. It's kind of fucking nothing.
Also fully half of that is blacks shooting other blacks in the ghetto, so if you aren't a black in the ghetto, it's pretty much as safe as Belgium.
Anyway, if you want to keep things less-lethal, give everybody these silly Russian rubber bullet guns
>It fires a 15.3mm (.60-caliber) phenolic rubber bullet with a metal core. This round fires out at about 400-fps which packs a heck of a wallop. It pokes holes in paper targets but penetrates less than an inch in ballistic gelatin (after 15-feet)
>>47218897
You realize that amendments can be repealed, right?
