Jaina is a Sith Lord and did nothing wrong edition
Discuss about warcraft as a Tabletop campaign setting
old Thread
>>47103110
>THIS IS CANON
So anons, how would you expand the Ethereals in a hypothetical expansion? Full retard Spelljammer style expansion? Focusing on the schism in their culture, with power blocs of Trade Princes? Or continuing the alternate dimension theme, and stuffing in various versions of major lore figures who have been changed in miniscule ways because "muh nostalgia" and "putting the WAR back in Warcraft"?
>>47147395
Take your cancer topic and shove it. Why even make a thread if all you're doing is bringing up the same shit that's been discussed for hundreds of posts in the last bunch of threads and which will never lead to anything good?
Fuck you.
>>47147429
These are battlemasters from Shattrath, yes?
>>47147429
This is a LOT weirder if you've never seen Fire & Ice or have forgotten Rexxar exists.
>>47147636
The threads seem pretty varied to me. There's a common substrate of "Blizzard is shit Warcraft lore is shit everything is ruined fuck this gay Earth," but there's some neat gems inside.
That said, why don't you tell us exactly what makes you so mad about these threads?
>>47147726
Daelinfags/orcs dindu nothing compromise most of the discussion and it's getting tiresome.
>>47147572
>Full retard Spelljammer style expansion?
>power blocs of trade princes
Yes.
Raids centered around void aberrations and ethereum or some other faction of enemy ethereals.
Alien landscape with alien creatures. Designers can go wild on that one.
Ethereal technology themed gear
Neutral hub city with multiple factions, perhaps some of them mutually exclusive - like aldor/scryer but with more intrigue and potential for treason quests (actions that drastically change your standing with various factions)
Hidden agendas of various factions.
Maybe a separate neutral settlement for people who somehow manage to piss off ALL the hub factions
One or more Light-aligned factions, one of them perhaps secretly demon worshippers carrying out fight against void creatures for their own ends.
Maybe we'll discover an old god or something involvement in darkmoon faire and have a darkmoon raid too?
>>47147854
Sounds pretty good actually. Though now that I think about it, I want to toss in Ogres, or some other ugly race, as the equivalent of the East India Company. Though that may be because I want posh motherfuckers to show up and cause trouble for traders.
>>47147726
Fire & Ice is very good movie Imo. Everybody interested in sword & magic / blade & spell type novels, rpgs and movies should watch it even if only for basics of the genre.
>>47147854
Ethereals are neat Imo and have unused potential but I feel they are best used as supplement rather than having everything based on them.
I had envisioned (and worked in WC3) a campaign located on backwater planet conquered and left barren by The Burning Legion with minimal defense force. The heroes would be orcs and draenei who left the exploding Draenor before it turned to Oitlands by utilizing portals opened by the orcs. Not all orcs drank the blood of Mannoroth and some would have had helped the draenei eacape the onslaught using opened portals to other planes. The draenei and orc survivors would not include any well known major characters but would revere them as mythical heroes and aspire to be as great as them. This way they would have solid connection to them without having to have them present. The orcs and draenei would enter an alliance of some sort and by having to stay close in order to survive they would eventually form a solid civilization. Interbreeding is possible or not, makes little difference to me but somebody always wants to play half-breed to be torn between races. I'll elaborate when on PC.
>>47148218
>Interbreeding is possible or not
There are at least two canon examples: Garona and Lantresor
>hey, remember LEEROY JENKINS
>that was funny, right?
>>47148255
>heh
>>47148255
How could we? He makes appearance in WoD as well.
>>47146132
it was a joke about how the bad guys use light magic and the good guys shadow
>>47148533
Looks like they're abandoning the idea that Light = good & redemption that the Naaru seemed to represent in reigniting the Sunwell.
I'd like to believe it's to add more nuance to the Light, that it can be abused without being extinguished, but I fear they're going to take the path of grayness and balance between light and darkness.
Then again, the naaru light-darkness cycle is not exactly new, and it's not without reason to not want either side to get too big advantage over the other, even the good one, since once they cycle out the lump of light becomes a lump of darkness.
>>47148604
the Adherents don't really use the Light, it's sun magic that's superficially similar to the Light, but unlike the Sunwalkers, isn't actually holy in any way. In the Spires of Arak questline it's constantly pointed out that shadow isn't necessarily evil due to it's sheltering and obscuring nature helping the Outcasts, and the Light isn't necessarily good because it allows the Adherents to root out and destroy the Outcasts from the safety of Skyreach
>>47148667
I suppose that makes sense, but the difference is subtle enough for the sunwalker from garrison daily to not recognize it.
I still don't believe Vol'Jin is dead. It's fucking retarded even for Blizzard.
>>47149002
Darkspear genocide best day of my life
>>47149002
Dude
EMOTIONAL impact
LMAO
>>47149031
Killing off a character who is already mocked for being inconsequential is not how you do emotional impact
>>47149050
I think he's more popularly liked as a cool guy, more than he's mocked.
Will we ever see her again? The way her story ended I wouldn't be surprised if she returned as demon hunter, although she's probably just forgotten.
>>47147572
Didn't they try to add ethereals to the blue dragon war arc in Wrath before it was immediately aborted?
>>47149526
I think it was more like the blues were buying something the ethereals had, so more like a business deal.
>>47149741
Apparently there will be some ethereals involved in world events around the blue dragon presence in northrend in Legion.
>>47149860
I saw that. They were involved in the Blue Dragonshrine and the artifact quests.
So, the nightborne are looking pretty neat overall. Suramar looks pretty fucking cool
So, would anyone be interested in working on conjuring up racial stats for the various Warcraft races in D&D 5e mechanics? I've got all of the 5e, Warcraft D20 and WoW D20 books, but I'm completely lost about how the lore developed in WoW, so we'd need to work together if we wanted to add, for example, Dranei.
>>47151250
give them affinity to arcane/holy magic and make them lawful good.
>>47151250
Well, Draenei are basicly tieflings, so you could just use that?
>>47147395
>Warcraft
> lore
I had an idea for a Warcraft campaign using 5e, where the Alliance and the Horde manage to beat back the Burning Legion once and for all, but Azeroth is completely wrecked afterward similar to how Draenor was, and everyone instead decides to flee to another world.
Does it have potential or is it retarded?
>>47151321
No, they're aasimar that look like tieflings, entirely because WotC changed what tieflings look like to make them more like draenei.
>>47151434
Doesn't sound too bad to me. Certainly better than what I've heard the lore has become for the games so far...
>>47151320
>>47151321
>>47151494
Hmm, I really do need to read up on their actual WoW lore, but I'm not a huge fan of the crunch for the current aasimar, really. Still, probably wouldn't be a bad basis, I guess.
Will the Warcraft movie act as a good introduction to the lore/story of the series?
>>47151650
Maybe. Probably.
I'd bet money the majority of WoW's playerbase doesn't know anything pre-WC3, in fact.
>>47151677
Which makes Kosak's pandering to the Warcraft 2 fanbase all the stranger
>>47151626
Hmm... looking at this page for them - http://wow.gamepedia.com/Draenei_(playable) - my kneejerk 5e writeup for Dranei would probably look like this:
Draenei 5e, 1st Draft:
Ability Score Modifier: +1 Strength, +1 Intelligence, +1 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Gift of the Naaru: You know the Cure Wounds spell and can cast it with this trait once per short rest or long rest.
Shadow Resistance: You have Resistance to Necrotic damage and are Immune to effects that would lower your maximum hit point value.
>>47151857
add in "most draenei are lawful good, those that aren't tend to fall to lawful evil over time" as a fluff piece
>>47151650
you could say that.
but it is it's own universe.
>>47151650
the story of the original Warcraft has been retconned so much that the movie will probably be the *only* accurate source of lore about it
>>47152273
I'd say they can be Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral and maybe Chaotic Good as well, and Broken/Lost Ones can be all over the place.
>>47152273
>>47152575
Eh, I don't really consider alignment to be worthwhile for mentioning, especially since A: the Warcraftverse is supposed to run on Black & Gray Morality, so the "clear cut" Axis of Alignment doesn't fit, and B: WoW D20 abandoned the use of alignment for just that reason.
So, no mechanical tweaks that people would suggest making? Maybe the Powerful Build trait from the Goliath (Elemental Evil Player's Guide), since the Draenei are a pretty damn big race at 8ft-9ft tall?
If no other tweaks to the Draenei present themselves, any recommendations/suggestions/requests for the next race to try tackling? Orcs, Elves, Tauren, Trolls, Forsaken, whatever?
>>47151650
The movie as well as the prequal books/graphic novel are part of their own seperate universe but as a jumping off part for newcomers to warcraft I'd say so.
>>47149461
Well, it looks like blizz is toying with the idea of Night elf paladins so she may become that instead.
>>47154015
She did give that holy warrior vibe back then, but I guess what she'd be know depends on how she dealt with Lightforge's fate.
>>47154298
>know
now*
>>47151857
I just cannot wrap my head around Night Elves and Draenei as playable races.
A race that gets a few hundred years old is already strange, since you either have to play someone very young, very incompetent or very amnesiac.
But somebody from a race that can break seven, eight or twelve thousand years no sweat? Or, god forbid, twenty, twentyfive thousand years? I mean, the thought of a random Draenei baker looking down on a several thousand years old Night Elf Priestess because he's thrice her age is funny, but still.
>>47154391
Blood Elves can live for millennia as well, and the Forsaken and Death Knights are also potentially immortal.
>>47154430
Yeah, potentially they are, but they shouldn't have lived that long yet.
Being ten thousand years old isn't strange for Night Elves. Hell, Malfurion was already more than 2000 years old when the Well of Eternity exploded.
>>47154391
There's two ways around this:
>your character is a fresh adult learning skills for the first time, just like many other adventurers
>the "thousands of years" lifespan is based on an outlier in statistics(like Velen) and is not the average for your usual person of that race
I prefer the second one myself. If everyone got to live to 25,000+ years then there'd be almost no children around, but inwhat's left ofthe lore there's no hint about few children or no children at all until recently like there is in night elf lore. At least as far as I'm aware.
>>47154430
I thought high/blood elves only lived a few centuries?
>>47154504
>I thought high/blood elves only lived a few centuries
Anasterian Sunstrider was king of Quel'thalas for almost 3,000 years before Arthas killed him. Who knows how long he'd have lived if he hadn't been murdered.
>>47154560
Warcraft lore is a mess.
I've been doing some reading, and I found this from WoD (in reference to the Draenei that pledged allegiance to the Burning Legion and became evil):
>Defeat the draenei and we prove our loyalty to the Legion. Crush Shattrath, and the demons promise us the glory of immortality!
If Draenei really can live 25K+ years normally, then why would they be goaded into working for obviously treacherous demons for the mere promise of living forever? This is the kind of shit humans and orcs fall for. Maybe they really don't live thousands of years on averageor someone on the writing team fucked up, which is more likely.
>>47154504
>>your character is a fresh adult learning skills for the first time, just like many other adventurers
>>the "thousands of years" lifespan is based on an outlier in statistics(like Velen) and is not the average for your usual person of that race
although there are many thousand year old Draenei, there were also a great deal of Draenei who were born on Draenor, and therefore would only be 600 years old or less
>>47154639
most of the Sargerei were draenei that were disillusioned with Velen's leadership and realized that their options were to keep running forever until you get torn apart by a felhound or join the Legion and have eternal life and great poweralso the voice direction in Socrethar's fight is fun as fuck
>>47154504
Yeah, but the Night Elves are undeniably fucked up in that regard. They were 100% immune to dying from old age or sickness and there were next to no substantial threats on Kalimdor, so there's no reason most elves wouldn't live to this day.
Also, wasn't there a Draenei child in a book that didn't age a day after several decades? So even a young adult should clock in at one or two thousand years for them.
>>47154391
Y'know, the alternate universe Ner'Zhul is either on someone's shit list, or their biggest hero after managing to get Velen to sacrifice himself, now that I think about it. Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde spent millenia chasing after him, only for someone not on their side to do the deed.
OP reminds me of my Hearthstone deck.
I just started a couple of days ago because they lured me in with free cards and I liked the look of them. Jaina being the start deck, I've just stuck with it, and being new all my fancy cards are from the Old Gods deck. So it's basically just become cultist leader Jaina deck.
>>47154780
>AU Ner'zhul still managed to end up as the Lich King because Kil'jaeden is butthurt about him killing AU Velen
I hope this happened
>>47154639
>>47154697
Maybe they need an external power source for their longevity like the night elves, or even for their general health like the blood elves. The originals lived in a magocratic paradise, the eredar have fel, draenei have the Naaru, and draenei death knights have the lich king.
>>47154639
>why would they be goaded into working for obviously treacherous demons for the mere promise of living forever?
Because Demons don't die even when they're killed, unless they're in the Twisting Nether.
Becoming a demon doesn't just mean not dying of old age. It means having almost no fear of death whatsoever, being able to die thousands of times without any fear of never coming back.
>>47154787
>tfw Jaina will become a cult leader raid boss in this expansion or the next
sic transit gloria mundi
>>47156032
pls no.
Although laura bailey is now getting on my nerves.
>>47156950
I'm just waiting for Elune as a raid boss to happen.
>>47154391
Naga and Satyrs can also be old. Vashj was around during the War of the Ancients
>>47156032
>mfw Blizzard's plan all along was to show Warcraft fans that all things succumb to decay eventually
>mfw WoW's final battle is a one-man dungeon with the final boss being a corrupted version of the player's character
>>47158083
we do that in wotlk
>>47147395
So I heard you guys had gnomes.
How many problems in WoW's current lore are a result of trying to portray the orcs simultaneously as the badass murdermachines from Warcraft 2 and the misunderstood noble underdogs from Warcraft 3?
They have orcs winning every single conflict, yet they are always the weak side. They are needlessly brutal and cruel, yet everyone treats them like a normal sentient species.
It's not even the Horde as a whole, it's literally just the Orcs. How would you do orcs in your game?
>>47158083
>not leading the players on more and more brutal quests telling them they're killing for some nebulous "greater good"
>players follow along because they're too stupid to read the quests and just see red NPCs to loot
>confronted with Pure version of themselves.
>>47158786
Be better if orcs were like Spartans. Super beefy dudes who fight for their lives, but only do war when they need to.
>>47158826
>>47158826
I imagine they'd fill their fighting quota with tournaments, wrestling, and other such stuff when they weren't at war. You can have a good fight without killing anyone.
Hell, they can have a free-for-all day at the arena, where anyone who wants to can just jump into a massive brawl.
>>47158826
>only do war when they need to
>Spartans
You do know that 300 wasn't a documentary, right? Spartans were assholes.
>>47159807
I believe that Azeroth has a few pro sports leagues, so they may get into those.
Where were the dwarves that fought with Lordaeron in WC3 from? Were they Ironforge dwarves or some other group?
>>47160418
Wildhammer I think, they're still hanging out in the Hinterlands.
>>47160418
the rifleman and artillery were regiments from Ironforge partnered with the Lordaeron military, the gryphon riders are Wildhammers
>>47159861
They're super assholes who hated Athens, but knew they couldn't outsmart them in a tactics fight. So an uneasy alliance was better.
Course, all Greeks were assholes if you read the stories. Ulysses and the gang raped the court of Troy.
So aside from Blizz removing all fun things, is there any reason why a draenei PC could not meet themself in WoD? I'm not getting my timeline mixed up right? Given the life span of Draenei and the timeline of the events and where the AU splits from the MU, it should be totally possible for PC to meet a younger version of themselves right?
>>47154504
aren't Malfurion and Tyrande over 10000 years old?
>>47160532
That's mostly due to the world tree, though elves seemed to have a long life span with their close relationship with the well. With mortality, not sure how long they can live now.
>>47160509
As long as they were born before the Attack of the Orcs they should be able to meet themselves. It might be harder to track their earlier self down though because before the Orc rape train hit them, there were hundreds of thousands or even maybe millions more.Depends on the current population, lore says 80% got genocided, but it doesn't say their total population.
>>47160509
>draenei PC meets themself
>as one of the Sargerei cultists in HFC
whoops
>>47160588
Kill yourself.
Literally.
>>47160588
>One of the cultist recognizes the PC
"Faleer, what are you doing out of uniform? The master said for everyone to be ready in case those adventures attack!"
>Cultist leads PC away and said PC tries to awkwardly explain that they are not who they think they are
I smell sitcom. Or a shitty quest line.
>>47160611
never reply to me again unless you're contributing to the thread
>>47160686
Seems to be on topic. You gotta kill your evil self for the good of the future.
This is suicide on a whole new level
>>47161275
I'm stupid and misunderstood his post
So I got back to the game for 7 day with the free pass thing
And got a eye of sulfuras
But I can't get the sulfuron hammer, blah.
I actually liked WoD's background, but the actual story is just.... ahh...
>>47163570
if you ignore the main storyline and do the side stuff, WoD is pretty cool.
the new Arakkoa are cool as shit
>>47163623
seconding this opinion. One of the only good parts of WoD is that they force you to do all the storyline missions to get flying in Draenor, and the Arakkoa quests are part of that.
>>47163698
I didn't like having to side with the shitty grounders. Since they breed true apparently that means that eventually they're all going to lose their wings and flying is literally the coolest fucking shit.
>>47163718
Since Iskar (the cross-dressing, cross-species guy from Talador) gets his wings back through fel there's presumably also other magic that can do it. It is a curse after all.
>>47163762
Yeah but fel is the absolute worst news. That's not to say it might not be possible through other means, just that it's not a sure bet and the only thing we know works isn't worth messing with.
>>47163770
Sure. I'm just saying it might be doable through ways that don't involve drinking the kool-aid. Blood elf addiction could be cured, for example, and they also almost got tricked into fel slavery.
Which threat against Azeroth do you feel make the world the most desperate? What threat was it that collectively pushed the people's back against the wall with dread and despair? What was Azeroth's darkest and most dire threat to the world?
>>47164152
The War of the Ancients
That was the closest Azeroth ever got to falling
>>47164152
What >>47164194 said, with the Third War in second place, and the pre-Wrath zombie invasion after that.
>>47163623
Not just that, I find the breaker vs Primals very interesting too.
also I went solo karazan, the place is just a hauntly beautiful, literally. (look at all those ghost!)
Warcraft still have have a very strong background, just the main story are shit.
>>47164585
>We will never see anything even half as fun as the pre wrath plague again because people bitched and moaned about it.
God fucking damnit
>>47165584
>We'll never see another underwater zone because people bitched about slightly different controls.
This is why the game has turned into Facebook.
>>47166758
I'll admit that Vashj'ir was unique as presentation and pacing goes. As the Horde, you spend literally 2/3 of the zone recovering from the naga attack and trying to bring your group up to a functional state so they can return to the service and eventually mount a counterattack.
Then again, it's still a water level, and open water is intimidating as fuck, even in an MMO where you still have full control of yourself and can defend yourself.
>>47166836
Exactly. It did have some flaws (I could have gone without the Battlemaiden questline, mainly because of the reduced skillset), but it had a plot that actually instilled a sense of being stranded in the wilderness, and was thick with atmosphere. Even non-horror games need to push players out of their comfort zones once in a while, and Vashj'ir on launch was probably the last time I ever felt threatened in WoW.
>>47167023
>it had a plot that actually instilled a sense of being stranded in the wilderness
This. I actually felt compelled not to actually leave Vashj'ir before almost completing the zone, because that would go against the narrative of the zone: trying to pick up the pieces before you succumb to the depths.
I feel like the Argent Tournament should have been the first patch in Wrath and should have taken place in Lordaeron. That way you can have the stated goal of weeding out weaklings and only bringing the best of the best to the crusade.
>>47167668
It would've been a bad showing by the Argent Crusade. The Lich King is back on the march and threatened the world again with an undead attack, literally everyone is mobilizing for Northrend, and the first thing you want to do is run a tournament?
>>47167731
It made even less sense coming out when it did in live, especially since they set it up right in the backyard of ICC.
>>47167946
It was originally going to be set up in Crystalsong Forest underneath Dalaran, but that was scrapped because doing so would CRASH THE ZONE.
>>47168002
I remember playing Wrath on a potato, I couldn't even go to Crystalsong because of Dalaran. Never got to see the city proper until Cata.
>>47167946
>It made even less sense coming out when it did in live
Since the Alliance, Horde, Argent Crusade and Ebon Blade were able to make inroads on Northrend and start beating on Icecrown's door, the Argent Crusade decided to rally and more fully organize the final offensive. Hence the Argent Tournament to cherrypick the Alliance and Horde's best.
>>47168100
a lot of ideas in MMORPG history were scraped because of players.
UO originally was going to have a ecosystem that the more you kill something, the things he feed on will spawn in larger number instead.
They scraped idea because the players were killing EVERYTHING in the area, making the system moot.
>>47168564
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q64XMPq6hig
>>47167946
It was weird at first, but also badass.
>We're on Lich King's doorstep, fighting is fiercest it got since the Wrathgate
>Men could use some boost in spirits
>FUCK IT, LET'S THROW A PARTY
Argent crusade rocks.
>>47168002
They should have stuck it in Dragon blight. Like rebuild the offensive around the Wrath gate
>>47158786
>How many problems
Literally all of them.
It really doesn't make much sense for there to be an undercurrent of "WE WUZ CONQUERORS" within the Horde after Thrall takes over. With how important shamnism was to that change, the culture alone should have shifted. And with old veterans like Saurfang around, the youth should have gotten all kinds of lessons on what is noble and what is not, and the consequences of casting aside one's honor.
It's part of why Garrosh's character makes no god damn sense. The Mag'har weren't the most warlike people, and all the stories Thrall told of Grom should have easily hammered home the danger of thinking might makes right.
>>47171399
>>47171399
>And with old veterans like Saurfang around, the youth should have gotten all kinds of lessons on what is noble and what is not, and the consequences of casting aside one's honor.
Saurfang keeping the lid on Garrosh's rage and channeling his aggression into usefulness through the alternating application of threats and advice is probably one of the best parts of playing through Wrath as a Horde character.
Then it all means nothing because muh WAR in WARcraft
>>47171544
Agreed. Had that continued, with Saurfang tempering Garrosh into a mighty, honorable orc champion, I think things wouldn't be as bad as they are right now with WoW's lore.
Too bad Saurfang Jr had to bite it and cause Papa Saurfang's absence.
![274708404_WDoBK-2100x20000[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dGvDeWX.jpg "274708404_WDoBK-2100x20000[1].jpg")
So has anyone here played the WoW TCG? I've never had the opportunity myself, but I think the concept of raid decks is really interesting.
>>47160588
That'd be fucking fantastic.
>>47148122
What I found pretty weird about Fire and Ice was the fact that stone-age Batman comes in and basically takes care of everything and makes the main characters largely irrelevant. It basically became 'DMPC: The Movie'.
>>47151857
>>47153922
So, since the Draenei stats seem to be acceptable for folks, anyone have any suggestions for the next race?
Actually, here's a thought; Forsaken. Should we make them their "own race", with a single unique statline all their own? Or should we follow the example of the Revenants from the Gothic Heroes UA article?
