How would a good DM go about orchestrating a paladin to break one of his codes of conduct so he falls from grace and subsequently loses his powers temporarily?
![AbeOik6.jpg.0ec19cb66c0323e2fef84d416ba5fcca[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/a7NN912.jpg "AbeOik6.jpg.0ec19cb66c0323e2fef84d416ba5fcca[1].jpg")
>>47141336
By working with the player so that the story progresses in a mutually agreed-upon manner.
I.E. don't be a dick by removing player agency, or by ham-fisting 'paladin falls' on an unwilling/undeserving player.
>>47141336
If that is your plan, you aren't.
You can create situations that present the Paladin with an option that would make him fall; however, that is up to the player to take the bait.
And really, what's wrong with a non-angsty, Paladin played straight?
>>47141336
Why should the paladin have to lose his powers?
You wouldn't drop the wizard to three Int or cut out the bard's tongue, would you?
>>47141492
Frankly, a Paladin's Code of Conduct should be identical to a Cleric's.
I mean, you're still serving a deity, except you're a warrior instead of a priest. The sword instead of a shield. It makes sense that a Paladin of Zarus wouldn't have 'killing or enslaving nonhumans' as a sin, while a Paladin of Herionous would ALWAYS be encouraged to kill minions of Hextor.
>>47141648
>identical to a Cleric
>you're still serving a deity
Literally the most wrong thing you could have said. Paladins get their powers from the magic of promises, and not even clerics are beholden a deity.
>>47141744
Enough with that silly bullshit already. Yes, yes, I know you can have a Cleric who worships the 'divine source' or whatever, but that's so you can make up your own domains.
Paladins are also explicitly Paladins of a God.
>>47141336
A good DM would not.
>>47141759
Clerics have always been able to get their power from an ideal, and paladins have everything to do with knights errant and nothing to do with crusaders. There is literally no reason you need to have anything to do with any deity.
>>47141759
Depends on setting/edition
>>47141851
But I like using a deity. A deity's enemies are my own.
>>47142004
Nothing's stopping you from worshiping a deity, whether or not you made your magic promise with or in honor of them.
>>47141336
>Mastermind.jpg
>saved the thumbnail
>>47141851
> Knights Errant
No silly, that's called a Cavalier. In some games, that's it's own class! In others it's just a mounted fighter. Paladins have divine powers like DETECT EVIL and SMITE. Powers that are not of this plane, but are given unto them by the deity who's ideals they are sworn to uphold and enforce.
Unless there is actually an NPC in game that has a reason to try to make the player character fall, this isn't something you should consider actively pursuing.
But if you really want to know, we're going to need to know what his code of conduct is.
>>47142088
>that's called a Cavalier.
Paladins actually used to be a subclass of the cavalier.
For your enlightenment, pic is from the 2e Complete Paladin's Handbook.
>>47142321
>2e pally fluff
Juicy material to make Paladins of two different faiths throw down and fight.
>>47142321
I thank you for helping prove my point that they are distinct entities, and not at all the same.
I also thank you for the references, few people provide adequate ones.
>>47142427
Sure, you could have two paladins of the Inquisitor kit sword to different churches butting heads constantly, but you could do the same thing with paladins of the Expatriate and Chevalier kits.
>>47142435
Whether or not this is sarcasm is lost on me, I'm afraid.
>>47142490
Actually, the Votary kit would serve far better than the Inquisitor for the first bit. I'd forgotten it existed.
>>47141336
Just present him with an option to become a super edgy and cool death knight.
>>47141336
>orchestrate
You don't. I suspect this thread is bait, but I'll bite, as this is a notion that exists in the heads of many gamers, and is part of the cancer of RPG's: You can't do everything right all the time. You can't play your character "perfectly". You are entitled to nothing.
If you want the character to have a "journey into darkness" to reaffirm his faith and make things interesting, there's nothing wrong with it. If your player is a crybaby, then run the idea past him first. If he's a grown-up, then set up a moral quandry in the midst of a crisis, and force him to choose A or B, with both being impossible. His deity punishes him for not choosing the other one by having him "slip from grace" until he speaks to a cleric of the faith. This cleric will inform him that "You can't do everything right all the time, and ______(your deity) knows it. You've slipped from grace because you are mortal, and (your deity) wishes to remind you that the road is difficult. Say your penance and reaffirm your faith."
>>47141336
Faggot DM detected.
If your Paladin falls, it should be because he makes that choice on his own. Not because you put him in an impossible situation.
Don't pat yourself on the back for forcing someone to play their own character your way
>>47142683
I want to reiterate that the whole point of an arc like this is to be INTERESTING and to get the group roleplaying and developing strong ties to a church. Incidents like this can be cool, and bring a new element of vulnerability to the characters if done well. If done badly, you look like a "that guy" GM.
Anyone have that screencap of the pally explaining to the prisoner exactly how far he was willing to go to get the info they needed, because it would save lives? I think it is a good read for DMs who think they can force a Paladin to fall.
>>47142321
In 1st ed, Paladin and Cavalier were completely separate classes, so no.
>>47141859
In the vast majority of cases it is as the other anon said, you are presumed to be the muscle of a specific faith.
>>47143531
Check your 1st ed Unearthed Arcana, page 16.
A paladin falling as a mechanic and not character progression is a tool the DM uses when their player is being an asshole on purpose.
THEY force it out of YOU, not the other way around.
The way OP is worded makes it sound like you need to nerf the party for a little bit. Try actually limiting them through some mechanic that isn't tied directly to one guy not roleplaying, because if you don't have to use it he's doing better than you deserve.
>>47141336
That picture pleases the Machine God.
>>47141336
>divine classes loosing their powers from "falling from grace"
What shit system are you playing?
