Good Morning Heretics Edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
>Novels (Working link as of 02/02/2016)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
WE DIE IN GLORY
1st for aspiring champions should be able to take terminator armour
Nice soul, I'll take it.
>>47112789
>Good Morning Heretics
Good morning OP
>>47112847
Glad I didnt preorder
>>47112939
Aspiring champions should have 2W, like the eldar exarchs.
>>47112939
tanking wounds with a termie for a tac squad is a bit much
>>47112993
I still think the best use of that kit is to assemble one of the other flyers and use the KMK and smashagun bits to make mek gunz.
![99120103043_OrkWazbomBlastJet1360[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xe306C3.jpg "99120103043_OrkWazbomBlastJet1360[1].jpg")
>140points for an AV10 unit
I wish GW would stop being so wishy-washy and just stop selling the Ork Codex already.
I mean it's pretty obvious from the last 10 years of releases that they don't actually want anyone to play the army and just want them to buy the models so why don't they just get on with it already.
Then they can stop having to write up rules that they blatantly don't want to, care to, or know what to do with.
>>47113022
Can't space wolves already do that?
>>47113030
I see your 140 point AV10 flyer, and raise you a 160 point AV10 flier.
>>47113043
I've honestly never never played wolf termies. Usually bjorn and Thunder cav with some devs in some units
>>47113030
Orks have to have hands-down the best ratio of Model-Awesomeness to Rules Uselessness in any army. So many of our models look fucking awesome and yet have godawful rules.
>>47113040
They really, tragically, can't figure them out. I'm at the point where the only reason I can think of is that they genuinely look at the rules they put out for Orks and say "Yep, these are great". Why a company would intentionally put out such atrocious rules just doesn't make sense, except if they think they're not terrible.
As someone newish to the game, what is with all these (flyers, etc.) supplements? How am I supposed to build a decent army when the reading list could fill a sizeable bookshelf?
>>47113045
Damn eldar have it tough :^)
But seriously it must have some tricks, right?
>>47113058
Like the Battlewagon
(but that one isn't that bad, just mediocre)
>>47113030
>160 points
Continuing my question about flyer formations also being flyer wing.
The way I interpreted is is that flyer wings aren't formations per se, so if you take the crimson death formation,
You get the formation bonus, in addition to whatever bonus you get from being a in a 3 man strong attack wing.
Otherwise I can't see much point in most of the formations.
>>47113024
Dont forget the two tellyport mega kannons, should make a base for another mek fun too
>>47113058
This is coming from the same company who wrote Tau, and Eldar. And are maintaining the Chaos codex. They have no sense of balance.
>>47113065
You literally have to buy everything. Or download it from links you might be able to find here. (Do that)
What if one of the Tzeentch discipline powers merged with the Daemon's Change discipline?
Imagine: Doombolt AND Flickering fire in the same discipline.
>>47113067
You're forgetting the word "Dark" in front of Eldar, mate.
Also it's maybe got some tricks?
I don't know the rules for it but it's got some cool fluff.
Like one of the type of bombs it can drop is a bundle of monofilament wire that explodes out at neck height.
Fucking radical.
The stormhaw actually looks pretty nice. Just do the tail lenghtening mod for it and remove the assault cannons from the wings and it look flight worthy
>>47113080
>>47113068
>>47113058
Am I the only one who is cautiously optimistic here, what with the new CEO and the general trend of "trying to listen to people and put their ear to the ground," even if it hasn't been an immediate 180*?" The general trends of new releases and products has actually been somewhat encouraging.
I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. We just gotta suffer through to it, guys.
>>47113071
Can you post a picture of the formation requirements?
>>47112789
We just never gonna see the genestealers again, huh?
>>47112789
Remove chinkin
>>47113107
Yeah, the pilots can calibrate the angle prior to and during weapons release, and go for multiple decapitations. The one that's a liquid nitrogen bomb that mr. Freezes people and is followed immediately by a high impact concussion to shatter doods is, in the parlance of my times, dank.
>GW releases two chaos supplements that push possessed hard
>You STILL can't buy possessed through their webstore
>>47113117
yeah I'm positive too
They'll evebtualy do thingsmostly
>>47113146
do things right*
eventualy*
Goddamnit
>>47113065
The game straight up trash, play something else.
>>47113117
Yep. Ask /tg/ a few years ago if they'd be community testing FAQs and they'd laugh you out the door.Granted they still will, but for different reasons.
I'm interested to see how the specific codex FAQs / errata (are errata coming out?) will look, especially since everything up till now has just really been establishing the intended reading of rules.
>read some Word Bearer lore
>Kor Phaeron and Erebus are plotting to remove Abaddon as the warmaster of Chaos because of his faithlessness
How is Abaddon faithless?
he serves the Chaos Gods.
>>47113071
They are.
Both te ork formations grants a benefit if they fly in certain patterns
>>47113145
Discontinued in the US but stock remaining in the UK. Basic CSM squad is showing as discontinued though.
Is there a CSM update imminent? Will they finally stop fucking complaining?
>>47113187
He serves them, but only as a tool to get what he wants: Himself as Emperor of Mankind.
Think of it this way: Kor Phaeron/Erebus/The Word Bearers are all devout zealot catholics. Abbadon is a medieval ruler who just pays lip service until he can tell the pope to go fuck himself.
>>47112750
Sauce on the pic?
>>47113187
Doesn't worship them.
>>47113187
No.
He sees the gods as powergul patrons to manipulate and use rather than lords and masters.
>>47113187
Barely.
He pays lip service to each one just enough so that their Cult Troops will help him out and whatnot but I'm pretty sure he holds near fedora levels of contempt for the Chaos Gods and their machinations.Fedorabbadon
>>47113203
CSM base squad is showing as available in the US, for me.
So I want to play Chaos, but I don't want to play Daemons or Marines. I had a look at the FW Renegades and Heretics army and they honestly look pretty crap.
Should I just play IG covered in spikes or should I look at the 30k Cults and Militia army?
>>47113203
Is there a last chance logo? If not they arent being replaced.
>>47113117
You're def not the only one. I'd imagine just about everybody with a large collection and who grew up with this awesome IP wants to see them turn it around.
I'm always leery of BoLS' amateur financial analysis of the company, but for what it's worth; Harry said GW has been in a death spiral with poor game design primarily informed by business decisions that didn't pay off. For example 8th ed fantasy emphasizing large blocks of infantry, where to get maybe half of your mandatory core allowance, it would cost you some 200$, which isn't a great return.
I could see why this led to the "fuck it, take whatever you want! " because they probably figured folks would just get the big stuff and be playing quasi apoc all day. It turned out to be game systems that weren't very compelling.
They're hopefully starting to realize that they're market is actually a thing, and presumably have abandoned the "lol demographics are for chumps we'll just make more expensive minis and make those better." As it turns out having a functional game system and losing large majorities of your player base are important concepts.
>>47113098
This. I prefer to buy stuff but download everything and figure out what books are useful to you.
>>47113080
>no sense of balance
It's a sales strategy anon. The nature of 40k requires them to find (not so) clever ways of forcing new purchases. Holding CSM, DE, Ork, BA players down and nearly unplayable in the last few years goes a long way toward convincing those players to buy an entirely new army.
To think that a public company accidentally keeps the same handful of armies in the gutter for the past ~4+ years is myopic. A ten year old can see the power gaps, you can, I can. Do you really believe the Games Workshop studio cant see the imbalance?
Do you really believe Crimson Slaughter, Black Legion, and Angels of Death/new psychic powers were released in the same weekend - with *huge power gaps between the armies* - was an accident?
They can clearly write powerful rules, and weak rules. The fact that the same armies are either kept strong or weak isnt an accident. Anyone still falling for this carrot on a stick excuse is a retard.
>>47113187
>How is Abaddon faithless?
Anyone who doesn't follow Lorgar's teachings to the letter is an infidel to Word Bearers. Also this >>47113204
Does the Imperium have any concept of secular treason? That is to say, acknowledging people being very clearly devoutly emperor-minded, but going against the government or millitary?
>>47113232
Renegades and Heretics are actually much better than IG
>>47113225
Yes, I said discontinued in The UK.
If you watch status in the UK and US you can see pending updates. Since those two regions are by far the largest for sales they tend to run out of stock first.
>>47113245
Why would they do last chance on a kit if a new replacement kit is coming?
>>47113323
Because limited edition stamps are like printing money.
>>47113258
>GW has been in a death spiral
For what it's worth, people were saying that when I left 40k the first time, which was well over 3-4 years ago.
I for one am optimistic, I think the proof will be in a) the changes they make based on community feedback and b) the upcoming race-specific FAQs. Less so the second one, since they may just want to get the rules under control and consolidate a bit before shaking things up.
>>47113275
If you think they do that on purpose then why do new models get released with garbage rules as often as with great rules?
>>47113299
>much better
I have IA13, and a huge IG army. Renegades and Heretics are absolutely not 'much better'. They have more infantry options, and can take 3 spawn for 55 points if you meet certain requirements. In a lot of cases they are cheaper to account for the BS 2. No Pask, no Wyvern, no orders, so no. They arent better.
>>47113299
How so?
It just looks like the only thing they really have is cheaper infantry, but the Uncertain Worth rule looks like it will fuck over any infantry force
>>47113278
Yes.
A perfect example would be the Severian Empire from the FFG RPG books.
The core philosophy of the commoners and troops of them is that Big Daddy E is still super holy but the High Lords are full of shit and not to be obeyed.
Now the higher ups and leaders are all corrupt as shit with the whole secession stemming from the Severian emperor making a power play for his own personal gain but backfiring spectacularly.
>>47113335
Sales shrink is a thing. Numbers dont lie anon. GW isnt in a death spiral, but if the shrink continues to accelerate they could be.
>>47113334
Well, they didn't. Possessed and CSM are each discontinued in one of the two key geographies so the other countries will follow suit as stock levels drop.
>>47113278
Sure.
They are called renegades.
>>47113375
Personally, I hope that CSM is being squatted as a 40K faction but it is probably just an update or repackage.
>>47113349
But you have respawining infantry, even from outflanking, you can have a 70 point cheaper baneblade with 12" bubble of fearless and 3+ cover from infantry, you can have cheaper artillery if you don't care about the BS 2.
It can be unstoppable if you want.
>>47113356
They also have a neat Romanesque aesthetic going about them if you're interested in that.
>>47113276
That's weird considering that Lorgar is the friendliest daemon primarch to Abaddon.
>>47113346
Im not going to get into a pissing contest over this anon. You can believe whatever you want to believe.
If a multi-million dollar company leaving sales to chance is the reality you want to live in, thats fine by me. But let me assure you, Games Workshop is well aware of how rules affect sales, and has a clearly defined strategy that includes exploiting that. Trying to simplify it down to 'model x, y, z dont have good rules' doesnt disprove anything. They are pushing people toward entirely new armies. Its clear as day to anyone vaguely familiar with common sense.
>>47113006
Imo all squad leaders should have +1 W compared to the rest of unit's model.
Makes buying upgrades more worth it.
>>47113447
I'm on to you Ultramarines!
>>47113447
>Take an ancient terran culture, grimdark it up, and throw it in SPESS
>Job done
How can they get away with this?
>>47113461
The same way they did it to everything else.
>>47113442
>it can be unstoppable
Yet for some odd reason, these lists are 110% absent from every single tournaments top 50. Weird, guess the waac fags are just too caught up with Eldar and whatnot.
>>47113461
...because that's business as usual for 40k as a whole?
I'm honestly suprised that it took so long for a straight Roman looking Guard army/faction to pop up.
What is the best space marine chapterwhen it comes to quality stories and novels
>>47113449
They've also said that they believe that veterans only make up a small portion of sales - the bulk come from new players/collectors.
That would.go directly against your "it's a conspiracy" theory.
Yes, I'm more inclined to believe that they are rubbish at balancing rules than that they are deliberately sabotage the balance of the game in order to try and get certain players to buy new armies when they could be attracting and retaining more players with the well balanced game that you assert they are capable of making.
>but counter examples don't disprove my paranoid theory
Yes, they do.
how the fuck do i download this shit
it keeps asking to upgrade
mediafire is fucking cancer
>>47113499
thousand sons
Dark Angels company veterans, with CSM backpacks and spikes/edgy bits, as Chosen.
Good idea, y/n.
>>47113232
give renegades a second look m8
>>47113481
or, you know, the order of magnitudes more expensive/time consuming it is to make a 1850 R&H army.
>>47113449
Also, I spent many years working for a company that's in the top five largest companies in the world.
Most of the product managers who define future development of the products had zero idea of how their customers actually used those products.
As such, the idea that GW just doesn't understand the effects of the rules on the game makes perfect sense to me.
>>47113499
By the word of The Kyme and Thrope's Law Dark Angels and Salamanders novels are the novels you want to avoid.
>>47113507
Why the fuck are you not using a good adblocker?
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6XwQHSY.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
Does the new flyer book have anything for the Vendetta?
Not that she needs work. I'm just hoping she doesn't get any worse.
>>47113565
Nope.
>>47113565
she is temporarily squatted until she get the new dogfight rules
>>47113565
It doesn't have the vendetta full stop.
Unless the vendetta is also covered on the valk page (haven't seen that yet) then we've got a problem.
>>47113565
It's unplayable until it gets Pursuit and Agility.
>>47113555
i am using adblock plus
what is the best adblocker?
>>47113481
Everything is shit if you compare it to Eldar.
What kind of point is that?
>>47113080
You forgot Necrons
Marines too, but the posterboys are expected to be wanked over, and despite easily being the second best army in the game, they are still considered fair for some reason.
>>47113584
Are you actually on some old browser version then?
>>47113580
It is not
>>47113584
Eldar
>>47113620
Didn't think so, thanks for posting that.
So is this an evil conspiracy to make guard players buy a new army >>47113449
Or just a fuck up?
>>47113584
WAAC faggot, choose what you like to play don't only play to win
What are the updated characterisitcs of the Tau flyers in Death In the Skies. I think I have seen everything but Tau.
>>47113545
>Also, I spent many years working for a company that's in the top five largest companies in the world
When you reply with obvious bullshit, it just illustrates that you arent really interested in discussing the subject. You just want to 'win the argument'.
>>47113539
Yeah, thats why waac fags dont play IA13 R&H at tournaments. Because its too expensive and difficult to build.
Never change /tg/.
>>47113664
Right because it's really unlikely that anyone on here works for a huge company that employs loads of people.
>>47113119
I'm a bit late, but I'm not talking about Crimson death, just flyer formations in general. Here's another example.
Basically, my question is, would I get the formation bonus (free shrouded for the Hemlock), while also getting the bonus for being an attack wing (like getting to designate one dude as "commander" and giving him +1 BS)
That's what I'm curious about.
>>47113565
punted to forgeworld, lel.
>>47113569
>>47113577
>>47113580
>>47113582
Vendetta is simply a Valkyrie with different weapons and transport capacity. Does the Valkyrie have stats?
If NEITHER of them do, I need to find a prybar to pull GW's head out of its ass.
>>47113664
HP in the ESSN (as it was then, enterprise now) division.
>>47113127
Go fuck yourself
>>47113232
>I had a look at the FW Renegades and Heretics army and they honestly look pretty crap.
They're not. They're not Eldar-tier broken, but they're more than good. If anything, they're slightly better than standard Guard, and have all sorts of really fun strategies. You can go full Commander Chenkov with Master of the Horde, you can get Faux-Stormtroopers, you can run a fuckton of reasonably-priced Chaos Spawn, and (while it's ridiculously expensive) Renegade Ogryns can be fucking brutal in close combat and tank hits like a motherfucker (A unit of 5 is 15 T5 wounds with D6 hits per model (D6 + D3 if they're outnumbered, which they should be) and if you give them a Covenant of Slaanesh they've got Fleet). Give them Carapace Armor and a Lascutter and suddenly you've got a mini-deathstar that your opponent simply cannot ignore or he'll get fucked to death (though again, ridiculously expensive).
Also, access to Artillery Carriages and other platforms makes them really fun.
>>47113506
Mantic, Corvus Belli, PP, FF, Wyrd, the fucking Battlefoam guys.... can all make reasonably balanced games. But the largest, and most successful of them all, Games Workshop, cant.
Sure buddy. Whatever you say.
>>47113664
That's not actually that unbelievable, actually. It's not impossible that Anon worked in some kind of middle management job in say, Wal-Mart (which is the largest company in the world by revenue).
>>47113709
>>47113620
Ah, there we go.
>Pursuit 1, Agility 3
Hm. Is this good?
>>47113721
So why are they releasing new models with shit rules instead of milking players of those armies with new models that have great rules?
>>47113709
valkyrie has stats and we can assume the vendetta is the same with fewer seats
>>47113709
Only Valkyries in the book.
>>47113723
>working at walmart makes you an authority on sales strategies
oh boy.
>>47113755
It's an evil plan to make guard players buy a new army!!! Totally not just a fuck up by incompetent writers that don't have a proper editor because good editors can get way more money elsewhere.
>>47113733
>Hm. Is this good?
It's bad.
Agility 3 means you can make an extra turn 50% of the time.
But if your opponent brought a fighter, you'll die in turn 1.
Because Death from Above is FUN*, and your units die before entering the field.
>>47113763
Working in middle mgmt or corporate Walmart certainly would give you experience on how large companies behave in regards to sales, yes.
>>47113741
Because if all armies are equal, the incentive to buy a new army would be decreased.
And there is more money in getting CSM players to buy a SkitMech army, than there is in getting them to buy a couple of new models.
>>47113232
I play Unending Horde Renegades, it kicks the shit out of most competitive lists because people don't know how to deal with 200 guys with melta and krak that come back on a 2+ outflanking.
Load up on artillery and rapiers, and you can be as competitive as your heart desires.
A nice side benefit is people have fun playing you too, because they kill lots of stuff, unlike playing against riptide spam, canoptek or jetbikes/wraithknights.
>>47113709
>Vendetta is simply a Valkyrie
That is not how rules work.
You can use the model as a "counts as", but if you show up with a vendetta, using the characteristics for a valkyrie and wargear for the vendetta, i'd punch you for being a retarded fucker.
>Ciaphas Cain
>Eisenhorn
>Gaunt's Ghosts
What to read next?
>>47113776
>without vendetta IG is nothing
See, this is why I don't run after the latest gimmick. I'm sure everyone who went full blown vendetta spam are laughing all the way to the bank right now. Meanwhile the slow and steady valkyrie strides on.
>>47113807
Enforcer, Eye of Terror, Daemon World, Pawns of Chaos, Farseer.
>>47113788
But, if that's true, then all the CSM and Orks players should have already switched in 6th when Eldar and Tau were already top tier.
And now on 7th, it should have switched back to make Eldar and Tau players buy CSM and Orks or Dark Eldar or whatever.
If somebody bought an Eldar army in 2e, they've had a strong, top tier army for the entire game.
>>47113813
>>47113797
>>47113717
So the two things that are putting me off are the almost universal BS2 and the random leadership
Obviously there's ways around both though
>>47113788
So why release large models with expensive moulds for those factions (gorkanauts, Lord of skulls) with garbage rules when they could have just not released those models.
Why make nobz worse and then release a new kit?
This makes no sense. You'd give them a great codex and new kits (to get loads of sales) and then nerf them on the next codex.
Why then do Eldar get nothing but fantastic codexes?
>>47113781
Explain how that works? I own a single Vendetta, and I use it in most of my armies as a particularly mean airdrop transport.
>>47113784
They are nothing alike. Think about what and how Walmart sells. Then compare that to collectible games. Not even remotely close. The nature of 40k/AoS/LotR doesnt require customers to make purchases over and over. So they need to get creative to keep bringing you back. You need to buy laundry detergent every week or so.
>>47113830
This. Orks, CSM, and Dark Eldar have been getting steadily worse and worse for what, 10 years now, depending on which of the three you're talking about?
Meanwhile, through the same time period, Tau, Eldar, Necrons and SM have been getting better.
>>47113838
cheap blasts as far the eye can see.
and infantry can take a fairly cheap upgrade to get BS3
>>47113841
Well if your opponent has a fighter then he'll kill your vendetta while both are still in reserve.
>>47113806
You're an idiot. The Vendetta and Valkyrie are exactly the same in every way except for capacity and armament.
They have the same engines.
They have the same airframe.
All things considered they probably even have the same pilot and control setup.
That's like saying an AC-130A and AC-130U don't have the same performance characteristics.
>>47113807
there's a couple good 1 offs like Baneblade or 15 hours. Also AGP is a fanon but it's a laugh.
People neded to remember that all the new flier shit doesn't apply to all fliers, only those with a new fancy statline.
So feel free to use the vendetta and whatever forgeworld shit you have. They can't participate in the dogfight sequence, but neither can FMCs, so have at it.
>>47113867
A Predator is built off the Rhino chasis, and yet doesn't have the same game stats.
>>47113860
No he can't, the vendetta doesn't have the new stats, so it can't participate in a dogfight.
>>47113886
We also don't know if a vendetta is supposed to have a different role.
>>47113830
Now you're thinking. We cant know the timelines or details of the strategy. Perhaps Eldar stay on top because they arent a particularly popular line? Maybe they want to push old metal and finecast kits?
Maybe Orks and CSM stay down because they are traditionally strong sellers?
I dont claim to know everything about their thought processes regarding sales. But pretending Games Workshop is unaware of the effect rules have on sales is absurd. To then think they wouldnt use those rules to drive sales is naive. Im sorry but thinking all these grossly imbalanced codexes and supplements are just accidental is extremely stupid.
>>47113552
>Can be used by any faction
>objective secured for Hovering Transport Fliers.
Air Commander and Combined Formation are fine and dandy, but that last part is just Imperium exclusive outside of Forgeworld models, isn't it?
>>47113275
I'm not so sure. Designers can get in a weird head space when they're on a roll. Really the only anecdote I have here is from the pre release commentary on the Destiny vidya. I played it, enjoyed it, considered it a flop. They talked a LOT on how they wanted to execute a great deal of things, but in the end they basically failed to deliver. About halfway through the video a designer was talking about how he was playing during internal alpha and he ran across another employee playing, and he said they both used the "sit" emote next to each other and watched the sky box sunset. He thought it was the coolest thing evar.
Are you fucking joking me? Who in the goddamn world wants to play a shooter to have serendipitous relationships with random fags over skyboxes? This was seriously the kind of "beautiful interactions" they were hoping actual people would have.
Rewind to the 90s, there's quite few design articles by the old heads from GW, who may or may not still be there, where they shared a vision of games with no points values, where players get together and simply play narrative battle recreations from headcanon, and that was the basis of the whole experience. Sound familiar? There is some evidence that they've wanted to move toward this design process for a long, long time.
>>47113867
So is a devilfish and a hammerhead.
So I'll just say it is basically the same model, and use the statline and characteristics for the hammerhead as a devilfish instead. Right?
The rules do not in any way hint at valkyrie = vendetta, so until you get your rules, no dogfight for you. Which is actually a good thing, so stop being this retarded
>>47113923
Samefag:
What I'm saying is, that if the business side's heads are/were as lightly involved in the actual IP or game system as some have said, and you have idealist, ultra-hobby minded artists pushing for a looser design theory, you could conceivably have had the perfect storm of poor execution of "balance mechanics" as an institutional hallmark. I put balance mechanics in quotations because that's a relatively newer phenomenon, and maybe even was a particularly American one, that rose out of people making organized competition over a hobby game ran by dice, and the balancing being expected from a generation raised by online and analog gaming with a particularly competitive bent. Think balance patches done by spreadsheet wizards in blizzard entertainment, and imagine that level of effort and expertise being expected to be injected into this hobby, ran initially by guys who wanted to just sculpt and write. Considering all this I think you can understand how they end up at the design decisions they arrived at, especially after being pushed by execs desperate to chase profits as well.
>>47112789
>building my Incubi
>realise how beautiful 90% of the DE range is
>saddened by how shit they are on average on TT
I miss you Duke
>>47113841
There is this new phase, called Dogfight.
This happen before everything in the game turn. So, before your first reserves entering there are potentially 2 Dogfights.
Players can choose to try to fight the opponent fliers in reserve. There are a few roll off in the middle.
Now the thing is that fighters are the only ones with skyfire and have highter probability of shot first. If you have one you want to hunt down transport and similar, because you have a fair chance of been able to kill it with everything it transports.
It's as stupid as it sounds.
>>47113916
And Space Marines are also a strong seller, and are at the top, while Dark Eldar aren't, and at the bottom
Why aren't Dark Eldar top-tier and Space Marines average?
>>47113939
And what happens if I have a flyer that's not the valkyrie, like, I dunno, ANY ONE OF THE TEN OR SO FLYERS THE GUARD CAN FIELD?
>>47113939
>If you have one you want to hunt down transport and similar, because you have a fair chance of been able to kill it with everything it transports.
Which is actually a good way to deal with those necron flier transports that usually dont care if they are shot down...
>>47113881
It's a supplement.
You simply have to say the magical words: "Fuck off, I don't want to play it"
Nobody can force you to play Cities of Death, for example, and the same is for Death from Above.
>>47113952
Because we're a niche faction, with a nice gameplay - though our models are on average are some of the best in terms of looks
>>47113923
That's exactly the kind of game that the GW team still play - narrative campaigns with extremely loose rules.
They do not understand how someone new to game or someone competitive and critical will read the rules.
Those other companies that produce balanced rules actually have a testing program and editors to ensure consistency. GW has neither of those.
>>47113840
Every army cant be on top anon. Then there would be far fewer sales. This is why you will never see balance in WH40k unless its 5 minutes to midnight.
How do they choose which armies get suck rules and which get good rules? We can only speculate, but I think its safe to guess that its based on popularity of each line, and perhaps how much/how old the stock is.
>>47113959
If they dont have the new stats, they are exempt from the new phase, like FMCs are.
>>47113840
Because Phil Kelly has a hard on for Eldar and can't let his favorite army be nothing less than good.
>>47113939
Any of you fellow 40kers not going to use this stupid expansion? Does 40k really need more bloat?
>>47113853
Tau were one of the weakest selling factions in the 40k line before 6th edition and the Riptide.
>>47113995
Yet Dark Eldar exists.
>>47113959
You can't play them in Death from Above until they have rules.
>>47113965
Did I tell you how Eldar flyer have absurd stats, and can basically destroy everything and/or never leave the field if they want?
>>47114006
>the newest army have lower sales than the old ones
I can't imagine how that might be.
>>47113996
Considering it removes AA from my codex I'm not going to bother.
>>47113923
>>47113932
This anon hit it on the head, I think. You don't have to look farther than GW's disastrous decisions outside of 40k (see: Age of Sigmar) to know that the idea that they're purposefully manipulating the rules for the sake of sales is very improbable indeed. That's also why I'm very interested in the new CEO, personally - I gather he's an actual player rather than either an old-school narrative campaign builder or a management exec (although I read either here or onle Reddit XDso it could be total bullshit).
>>47113838
Have a look at Lost and the Damned.
No matter the size WS and BS 3 costs 10 points for infantry platoons, so BS 2 need not be a concern.
For leadership, do the following, every blob gets a chaos sigil, this gives stubborn and allows you to reroll each first failed morale per game turn.
Then give the command squads a sigil, and a command vox net, which with fanatic means they roll 2d6+4 pick highest, with a reroll for leadership, and blobs within 12 can use this too.
Congrats your blobs are almost impossible to break, load up on shotguns, krak and meltaguns and run at people.
>>47113975
So why release expensive new models with garbage rules for armies they don't want people.to play?
Why not hold those releases until the army is good and they will actually sell?
>>47113995
Exactly. It is the whim of and attention (or lack thereof) from the design team not some corporate policy.
Does >>47113975 really think they sit in the board room saying "I think these ork rules are a bit too good, better nerf mob rule so that ork players will buy Eldar instead. Don't forget to release some new ork models that no one will buy so they don't notice our cunning plan."
>>47113996
Definetly won't be using any phase that isn't in the core rulebook.
Flier DLC can suck it.
Any pics for the Tau flyers? I think they are the only ones left. I don't expect much, but well.
>>47113987
>If they dont have the new stats, they are exempt from the new phase, like FMCs are.
Stop saying that, it's not true.
You can't play them in DfA. It's a different game mode, so if you don't have rules for some stuff you can't use it.
It isn't obligatoryyet
>>47113232
>So I want to play Chaos, but I don't want to play Daemons or Marines or Heretics
What is it that you want, exactly?
>>47113970
>Jink Saves become their own type of save and unaffected by Stealth, Shroud, and Ignore Cover
>Dark Eldar get Need For Speed special rule, make snapshots at BS2 if caused by cruising speed or Jinking.
Is it a start?
>>47114007
Obviously Phil Kelly isn't into BDSM.
>>47114086
HE just wants to yell at his wallet without the reward of stabbing himself with his own miniatures and searching all across the room for that one goddamn spikey bit that flew off because you cut too forcefully when attempting to mold and splice different spikey bitz together in a vain attempt to make Your Dudez look like they're yours.Life of Chaos is suffering
>>47113996
>cool update that reigns in the absurd power and utility if aircraft, gives them at least something to do even when they get completely cucked by a particular list, and pulls it all off in a reasonably simple and thematic way
>;n; but I have to remember 2 more numbers
Jesus fuck, even when we get everything we ask for you cunts find some shit to cry about. What the hell is wrong with you?
have 90 points left for my 500 pt tau army which currently has ethereal, 2x crisis suits, 10x FW with riptide and shas'ui
should i get another 10x unupgraded FW and just have them slow march into the fight to get more use out of the ethereal, or should i go something else like 2x piranhas?
>Inferno: For each model that is removed as a casualty as a result of Tzeentch's Firestorm, the remainder of the unit takes a further D3 S3 AP- hits. These extra hits do not themselves generate more hits.
>D3 S3
What the fuck is the point, then? May as well forget it's even there.
>>47113932
>>47113973
I hear you, and you bring up some good points. But I am reluctant to think that Games Workshop is unaware of the way rules influence sales. And that they dont take advantage.
Space Marines and Tau are both strong armies. Theyve both recieved supplements making them stronger. They have a multitude of formations, with powerful and useful bonuses everywhere.
Orks and CSM - both weak armies. Both recieved supplements keeping them weak. Lots of copy paste, very little in terms of helpful buffs. Even made the armies weaker in a few cases.
Do you really believe that Games Workshop put equal effort into all of these products? Do you truly think that they were unaware of the differences in power of these products. Is it that much of a leap of faith to say that they are using the imbalance to drive sales?
You'd be hard pressed to convince me that no one at GW was able to discern the difference in power between Angels of Death and Black Legion/Crimson Slaughter. They were released simultaneously.
>>47114088
Neither of those really help.
>Give Wych cult units rending
>Give Incubi grenades
>Vehicles can move 12" and passengers can shoot at full BS
Those are the 3 easiest things to give us a better edge - Though Jinx not being a cover save would be nice
>>47114112
A riptide at 500 anon? Is your meta full of cunts?
>>47114112
uhh, devilfish, not riptide
>>47114112
>500 point Tau army
>Riptide
I'd recommend killing yourself.
>>47114105
Aircraft did not have "absurd power and utility" unless you play on a meta where people are utterly unprepared too deal with them.
This expansion makes aircraft even less useful, makes it even less likely that they'll make it onto the board in time to be useful and adds nothing especially interesting.
>>47114138
>>47114142
i meant devilfish, my bad
>>47114036
Which is why I think Mat Ward was one of their best writers. Almost EVERY codex he worked on gave tons of options and they were "balanced" (when compared to other Ward dex's)
Granted this is compared to Crudance and Kelly.
Ward seemed to be a fanboy at heart and wanted to make all factions he worked on great. Just keep him away from fluff.
>>47114017
>Riptide and Tau 6th edition codex
Suddenly the new, poor selling army is sitting near the top. I cant imagine why that might be.hint: its rules
>>47114140
Oh okay. I retract >>47114142
I'd suggest maybe adding some Kroot Snipers to infiltrate in so they can help hold objectives.
>>47114130
I don't think its on purpose, more that the design process is wonky and incoherent.
>>47114165
i thought about snipers, but it doesnt benefit from the HQ and they also disintegrate against anything if there isnt a forest on the tabletop, so i cant really tell if its worthwhile when compared to losing a few units and making them FW instead
>>47114157
>they were "balanced"
>>47113040
The last time the Ork codex got a major overhaul, it was given far more moving parts than the other codexes of the time.
So now, they have to update a codex that's as complicated as modern books, but was built around old rules/practices/styles. People always act like updating Orks is as easy as changing Mob Rule, but that ignores the fact that they've probably never even SEEN half the units in that book on the tabletop. Do you just drop those units? You can't release a book that has half of the options of the previous.
And then you need to decide what the Ork niche is. Fast, choppy hordes? Oh, wait, that's Tyranids. Fast, shooty hordes? Oh, that's ALSO Tyranids. Tyranids, but with vehicles? That's IG. Crazy RNG options? Oh no... that's Necrons. Fast, tough, shooty AND choppy hordes with vehicles? That's OP.
Even if you figure that out, now you need to replace half the line with new models, which in itself is an entire process.
Now, compound all that with the fact that none of the higher-ups have a passionate vision for the codex in the first place, and you get the current stagnation.
>>47114105
>absurd power and utility of aircraft
>must start in reserve
>horrible movement rules limit targets
>3 HP AV vehicle damage table
nigger please.
>>47114067
So you can't use FMCs either?
Otherwise you'll have to point me towards the text that says you cannot use vehicle fliers that doesn't have the new rules.
>>47114036
I'd say the higher ups look at how each faction is selling and determines that in order to keep the large player-bases of the bad armies, at least semi-content, they need to pump out new models for them. Since GW is full of modelers (because they believe models sell and rules don't) and very little game designers, it's much easier to do this. GW has said that the reason some factions don't get as much, or good updates is likely because no one there has a vested interest in the faction. If your game designers don't care about a faction then it doesn't get new rules, and less people play it. Then GW thinks, "oh no one is buying/playing that faction, let's not put out any new models for them." Then the cycle repeats until GW either decides to completely revive a range or squat them. Just a completely wild guess though.
>>47112482 #
Use the Codex: Orks 7th Edition Update. I'm 99% done with the PDF, & may get the files hosted on Appspot with the other BattleScribe data files.
For now, here's a link to the .BSR that opens with the desktop version's Roster Editor
> File
> Import data from file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2kviluiacpjrf9/Orks%20BSR.bsr?dl=0
Fuck GW & fuck their incompetent nerfs & fixing shit that wasn't broken. Fuck their laziness & unprofessional, uninspired mess that was the latest Ork codex. Use ours--it's objectively better-designed and balanced, not to mention after-aligned with the fluff. You can't name a problem they gave it that we didn't solve. Have fun.
>>47114203
>>47114193
It's this.
Nobody at GW plays Orks.
That's literally all there is to it.
>>47113067
Its Got a S9 AP2 large blast which is a bomb, so its got one of them
It can spend 40 points to take 4 S7 AP- Large blast missiles with shred, or 60 points for S6 AP 2 blast missiles instead
Its got two S8 AP2 blast guns which it can swap out for two S9 AP2 Lance guns for 10 points a pop
and none of this matters because whenever a quad gun looks at it funny it has to jink, in which case it can only snapshot the S9 lances if it took em, Or not fire anything if it didn't
New jink rules fucked Deldar raw, and the changes to firepoints is the final nail in the coffin
>>47114203
>GW has said that the reason some factions don't get as much, or good updates is likely because no one there has a vested interest in the faction.
Source?
>>47114130
You're half right - they didn't get equal effort.
No one left on the design team cares about orks and CSM. Those people left during 3rd and 4th editions.
>>47114194
survivability is everything. All flyers could shoot at anything and only specialized units and Codex:Tau Empire could effectively shoot back.
Now flyers have limited roles too. It brings them in line with the rest of the game.
>>47114230
People should also consider the fact that no well known rumour mongers/insiders/people in the know online have ever backed up anything this lone deranged anon says about his conspiracy theory. In fact, I've never even seen it said outside of tg's /40k general/. You can say this is 100% a /tg/ creation. Congrats, /tg/, we did it.
>>47114203
Why the fuck would you try and keep players of your target armies semi content if your objective is to make them change faction? It's ridiculous.
>>47114192
He means balanced against one another
he was running on the philosophy that if everything was broken, nothing would be, and the codexes usually had great internal balance
>>47114203
>or squat them
Right, because we see that "cycle" all the time.
>>47114315
And it worked, too.
Ward codex vs Ward codex was probably the most balanced 40k has ever been. It was a golden age.
Would you play against an Armoured Might detachment at 2000 points?
Say roughly this arrangement:
Techmarine on Bike,
3 vindicator unit,
3 Tri las predator unit,
3 whirlwind unit,
Auxilliaries:
Buncha Contemptors and regular dreads, one of the Contemptors is Warlord.
Entire army immune to shaken/stunned, warlord can shoot his Kheres twice or nominate another vehicle to shoot twice.
>>47114315
He never produced a pointless codex that noone wanted to play. Pretty sure that ork/nid/CSM/IG players would welcome a ward codex right now.
Ultramarines have best qts.
Dark Eldar are the most squat-worthy race, hands down.
>>47114287
You don't want them to quit the game entirely.
>>47114376
No, SoBs are, you stupid idiot.
>>47114130
Space marines sell great, get a good update.
Chaos sell badly, get a shit update.
>it's a strategy to drive sales.
Deliberately making part of your range shit for a decade and continuing to sell it (so that you have to eat all of the associated costs) is not a sales strategy.
>>47114387
SoB aren't a race. They might not deserve their own codex, but their place in the lore is sound.
Dark Eldar fail to be compelling on the tabletop or in the lore. The only other race that even approaches the pointlessness of the Deldar is Necrons, but at least they have meaningful interactions with the Imperium, Tau, and Eldar.
>>47114385
And how does releasing new models with garbage rules keep them happy with the game whilst encouraging them to buy a new army?
>>47114430
Brings their attention back to the game. The fact that people are still bitching proves that fact at least. Apathy more than anything else kills a product.
>>47114385
Doesn't reminding them of the balance issues whilst encouraging them to invest more in their current army go against both of those objectives?
>>47114287
I don't think their objective is to make people change factions. I think they want people to keep buying models. If they leave certain factions alone, and don't provide model updates, then they see a decrease in that factions sales. They then assume that those players are leaving the hobby (not moving on to other factions) because their faction isn't getting new models. If other more powerful factions see increases in sales, then they probably don't even think it's old players moving over, but instead because players already playing that more powerful faction are buying the new models.
>>47114326
Your right, maybe not actually squatted. Just left to hang. If your models are still selling and making money like sisters, but there isn't a large base buying them, then I can see why they aren't updating often. They see that small base of people and think what's the point.
>>47114193
>Crazy RNG options? Oh no... that's Necrons
I hope you mean Daemons. Necrons have basically nothing random.
>>47114347
Is this Ellen Baker?
>>47114454
So it's not about keeping them "semi content" Make your mind up.
>>47114387
DE player spotted.
>>47113806
>>47113755
While he's not necessarily doing a good job, >>47113709 is actually correct, at least in the "logical" sense. In the Guard codex, Vendettas are identically stated save for transport capacity and weapons, and have the same rules. In the older Guard codices, Vendetta were just a 65pt upgrade for Valkyries that changed their wargear and transport capacity.
It's a pretty reasonable assumption that a Vendetta would have identical stats to a Valkyrie, as they're simply the same vehicle with identical stats, near-identical fluff purpose (both are transports and gunships designed to take on different ground targets) and slightly different wargear. Using Valkyrie stats for Vendettas, as long as you're paying the points for a Vendetta that are outlined in the Guard codex, is 100% reasonable.
>>47113145
>Buying a shitty 5 man box full of crap/ugly options from Jewdubs
Convert them you idiot, get some cheap marines or at least legs and torsos, get some spawn / forsaken / fucking anything chaos bitz and smash it all together.
Learn2hobby.
Regarding the One Relic per model rule
>Space Marine, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Chaos Space Marines, Harlequin, and Eldar codices say, "May replace one weapon with one [Army Relic]," or, "May replace one weapon with one of the following."
>Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights, Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Adepta Sororitas, Imperial Knights, Inquisitors, and Orks wargear lists says, "A model may take one of the following."
Khorne Daemonkin has both limits. "A model may take one of the following..." Or "A model may instead replace one weapon with one of the following..."
>Tyranids codex says, "A model may replace any pair of scything talons with one of the following."
>Legion of the Damned only has one relic, total.
>Chaos Daemons only has a limit of one per army, but after looking at the codex (for the first time), there doesn't actually seem to be /options/ to take the Hellforged Artefacts. They are either already equipped to your forces, or they aren't.
>Tempestus Scions, and stand-alone factions like Officio Assassinorum, Deathwatch, Genestealer Cultists, and Renegade Knights don't seem to have relics lists.
>Tau and Astra Militarum only seems to have a limit of one of each item per army. I see no restrictions per-model restrictions, although some Astra Militarum Heirlooms may only be taken by specific models or replace an item.
>Near as I can tell, every supplement uses the relic restrictions of their parent codex/faction. In most cases a unit may choose from either the parent list or the supplemental list, "instead." In other cases, an individual model may chose from either list "instead." In both cases, relics from both lists may be within the same detachment. Most of the Space Marines factions have more than one "One-per army" wargear list classification, with Banners and Relics being notably different lists, and their supplemental models may select the parent version of one list and the supplement version of another list.
>>47114514
You can stack relics for IG/Cadia, although some relics are exclusive to certain HQs and each unit must pick between the lists. Farsight Enclaves' most recent stand-alone format allows a single model to select from both lists, potentially allowing up to 14 relics on a single model, if they pay the points.
>>47114510
I was going specifically for the robe look you chode.
>>47114514
Hellforged artifacts are Exalted gifts if you decide to squat the bonus you get.
E.g Roll 1 on exalted gift, scap that and pick the Hellforge for your god or undivided.
>>47114212
Just looked over this, pretty good job. Will the pdf have a change log?
>>47113207
A-anyone?
>>47114531
>the robe look
Then consider mentioning that, faggot.
Also, what?
>>47114500
As a house rule, sure.
But if you don't sell it well, and act like a conplete fucking dickhead like "FUCK YOU IT IS BASICALLY THE SAME MODEL" then you should expect to get told to go fuck yourself with your vendetta.
Also, the whole "it used to.." and "but in the fluff..." are shitty arguments. Stop using them.
>>47114604
I don't know the draw fag but I can dump some more of that stuff if you like
>>47114203
>>47114272
>survivability is everything
Stop.
>>47114604
See that little blue arrow next to the post number? That's an image search.
Took a like.. 5 seconds.
yangzheyy.deviantart.com/art/Battle-Sister-565325342
>>47114524
But that's their thing anon. Tau are all about versatility, tactics, and strategy. :^)
>>47114620
>Mention Dark Angels vets specifically
>The dudes clad all in robes
>hurr i didnt know you meant you wanted robes :^)
>>47114524
>Farsight Enclaves' most recent stand-alone format allows a single model to select from both lists, potentially allowing up to 14 relics on a single model, if they pay the points.
Nothing more hillarious than bring a blingmander. Literally. Expensive and completely pointless, but there is just something hillarious about having a Tau Batman with tools for literally any situation.
>>47114485
>Necrons have basically nothing random.
C'tan powers?
>>47114547
In that case, is it possible to take more than one on an individual model? The Daemons PDF hurts my eyes to look at.
>>47114193
Then how come I did it better?
Shit, the army has some comparison to any others, but if we roll with Tyranids & SM:
- No big monsters, so make troops & HQs hardier infantry
- Make vehicles the key to speed or durability to make up for not having MCs or beasts
- Everything slightly cheaper & slightly less effective than Imperial equivalents so you field more, but give stuff a chance to shine, like with double initiative.
- Keep points bloat in check for a horde army.
- High risk, high reward, middling points cost. The fact that largely, Orks pay about 40% more than Imperials for big, impressive guns, when they hit /every third turn/, was fucking shameful.
Problems solved.
>tfw melting through MEQs
>>47114681
Oh, right, forgot about those.
>>47114719
Well yeah. Running them as counts-as noise marines actually makes them kind of usable.
>>47114590
Thinking about it. I have a
>>47114667
Take him up against an opponent that used to switch out two weapons for two relics, just to taunt them.
>>47114631
>Also, the whole "it used to.." and "but in the fluff..." are shitty arguments. Stop using them.
Looking to previous iterations and looking at the in-universe explanations for how a unit is supposed to function is not a bad idea at all when there's a major confusion or a seemingly glaring error (like not including a unit that is in the Guard codex, for example). It's this thing called "approaching a problem logically," to see if there is a legitimate error or an intentional design choice.
RAI v RAW.
>>47114659
Not that guy but I don't see you mentioning dark angels vets anywhere. Are you stupid?
>>47114682
The Hellforged are limited 1 of each type per army. You can never have 2 on any model for reasons I will describe below.
The gift system works thusly.
A lesser gift costs 10 points
A greater gift costs 20 points
and an exalted gift costs 30.
They all have their own D6 roll list.
Diffrent HQs have point pool on how many gifts they can take.
On all 3 lists there is a result of 0.
This list Magic weapons, Greater magic weapons and Hellforged Artifacts.
You can choose to discard the result for a weapon/artefact from the corresponding list.
A Deamon Prince has the highest pool of 50 points.
So 1 exalted and 1 greater or 5 lesser gifts or some such.
A normal herald has 30 points to spend on rewards.
No unit has enough to pick 2 Exalted gifts.
>>47114779
Oh. Yes, I apparently am.
I posted something earlier about trying to use DA vets as chosen that I thought he was replying to. Whoops.
>>47112993
thanks for nothing GW. Another awesome looking model that will languish with bad sales because you cannot write rules to save your lives.
>>47114239
the change to void lance is free. Not that it matters...
And it can buy a nightshield to get stealth for 15 turning it easily into a 200+ pts flyer.
>>47114811
I said HQ, but that isn't correct. Characters is a more correct term.
You can upgrade 1 model in most units to a character and they can take up to 20 points.
>>47114775
>Looking to previous iterations and looking at the in-universe explanations for how a unit is supposed to function is not a bad idea at all when there's a major confusion or a seemingly glaring error
Cool, i'll bring my sniper drone team with rail rifles then, since GW specifically says they are equipped with rail rifles. So their pulse snipers are obviously just a glaring mistake.
>>47114816
DA vets as chosen are good. Just mix and match with other chaos stuff, and you can make pretty unique stuff.
>>47114775
Which is perfectly fine in some cases, but not in others.
In this case, the vendetta is an entirely different unit in the rules, and assuming it functions exactly lile another unit because it USED TO be the same... No. That's not how rules work. I can name a shitton of models that have gotten nerfed over the years by removing or changing gear they had, and you'd also call me a dorty cheater if I brought it anyway.
The only time RAI vs RAW comes into play is when RAW isn't entirely clear. Here you have an example where you need to be straight up delusional to somehow think that RAW can be interpreted as "a valkyrie is probably also a vendetta"
RAI Marines are supposed to be unstopable demi-gods, yet a small squad of plasma storm troopers can remove am entire unit before the marines have a chance to react.
>>47114811
So, because no model has the ability to spend 30 points on Exalted Gifts twice, no model can get more than one artefact. OK, Thanks.
