>Lawful Good
>>47009211
The wow movie looks worse every day
>>47009211
>look ma i posted it again!
>>47009211
If it's just the one orc baby Ima take it back to a monastery where it can grow up learning discipline and restraint over it's brutish impulses while making friendships with the other children as it grows to be a upstanding god fearing orc venting his violent instincts on the wicked and corrupt.
>chaotic evil
>>47009267
All orc babbies need to be raised like this.
>>47009233
>>47009211
You smite ALL of the evil boy.
>>47009211
I refrain from commenting on the unattractive appearance of the child shown to me by the kindly orc couple who are allowing me and my party to lodge in their fine home. Test it's grip by offering it my finger.
Later ask cleric to fix finger.
>>47009211
The paladin removes the part of his brain responsible for morality.
This new sub-human version of him then makes a choice, which cannot be evil, for the same reason a wild animal or a primitive computer cannot do evil.
Since the paladin's code prohibits evil acts, but does not require nonstop good acts, he does not fall. He can heal himself later.
>>47009998
But if he is unable to do evil, then he is incapable of also doing good. Without the ability to tell wrong from right, he cannot consciously be Good, only accidentally. He was never a paladin to begin with, only a delusional man "worshiping" a deity who no doubt wants nothing to do with this sociopath.
>>47009998
I'd argue that lobotomising yourself solely so you can commit an evil act while lobotomised does in itself constitute an evil act.
That shit's premeditated, hombre.
A baby Orc will become an adult Orc. Adult Orcs have been proven to be 100% evil, therefore preventing his larger future evil is more important than commiting a (only by human standards and not Orc standards) "evil" act today. Be sure to make it quick though.
>>47009211
>Detect Evil
>All paladins can do it
There. It's in the DM's hands now. Take up your incredibly uninteresting morality argument with him.
>>47009211
10/10 would Smite.
Scary and dogmatic LG is the best LG.
>>47010289
> Adult Orcs have been proven to be 100% evil
Hmm...HMMMM...
Looks like someone doesn't read his Monster Manuals very well. Here, let me get that for you.
>>47009211
God will know his own.
>>47011312
I'm still a fan of lawful evil orcs, but that is just my old scool ways though.
But yeah, often player characters are generally unusual people and either don't tend to follow how they grew up.
>>47011312
Now, for the record, I have usually approached this as taking advantage of the "step" rules for 3rd Edition D&D alignments, as outlined in the pic here.
>>47010289
>Adult Orcs have been proven to be 100% evil
Where does the idea that this is true even come from?
>>47011596
Very early Dungeons & Dragons.
Ever since 2nd Edition, though, D&D has generally tried for a more balanced approach to each monster race.
>>47010289
>Adult Orcs have been proven to be 100% evil
But what is evil?
And how can one prove this?
There is no science here.
>>47011631
>There is no science here.
Your "science" has no power here in the realm of magic, you poor mooncalf. Now begone - and take your hokey religion with you.
>>47011631
Good is Selflessnes
Evil is Selfishness
>>47011312
>>47011596
>>47011631
In my setting orcs are %100 evil because it makes sense.
>>47013029
How so?
>>47013053
They are a race of partial demons, so their magical inherent tie to the 16th plane of the abyss ensures that all natural-born orcs are on the evil spectrum of the alignment scale. They also can substitute STR as their casting stat for sorcerers for free, although no player has wanted to play a natural-born ORC yet. Half-orcs are rarer since they require magical assistance to reproduce with non-orcs (fertilization is the issue, not physical complications), but they lose their tie to the abyss and have an alignment similar to that of their adoptive parent(s).
>>47013053
Tolkien's orcs also were 100% evil and it made sense, because the whole race was made by the god of evil butchering elves in some unspecified way until they turned into spiteful monsters fueled by anger, hatred and little else. Barbarian orcs are a relatively recent development.
>>47012976
That makes no sense.
A racist or jihadist or anything of the sort is both Selfless (Cares little about his life in relation to his group) and Selfish (Wants to force the ways of his group over others)
>>47010164
What if it is done by a society as a secret without the Paladin's knowledge?
Thus it gets a legion of super soldiers, empowered by goodness without actually needing to do good.
>>47013470
That. . . Is a fucking horrifying idea for a church headed by a chief priest who thinks he is adhering to a utilitarian good.
Congrats, you've helped me make a midboss for my party.
>>47013585
Shit, wrong post, should be directed at
>>47013522
>>47013406
Not all the orcs were evil, the movies just never mention the peaceful tribes,
>>47013470
>>47012976
I think Selfish vs Selfless is more of an Order vs Chaos thing.
The thing is that selfish people can be sympathetic and not wish oppression upon others.
>>47009998
This makes me ask a question - is a paladin allowed to make a neutral choice if it means not making a evil choice? Conversely, are they allowed to make a neutral choice instead of a good choice?
>>47013691
Code of Conduct
>A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
>Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates
>While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
All there is on paladin code of conduct. From there, it is up to GROUP interpretation.
>>47013053
They're profane creatures created by Orcus using the flesh and blood of fallen giants. Their blood is literally black and corrupts that which it touches. Orcus made them to be an army to spread death and destruction but they grew too large in number, breeding and slaughtering wildly. Since then, they have their own twisted rituals of maiming and mating heavily inspired by oldschool Warcraft orcs.
>>47014130
As of 5e this is no longer true.
>>47013053
because theyre based off black people.
just look at shadowrun for instance.
>>47013470
Unless the God is a demonstratably real being in the setting he does not apply to the morality system and even if they do exist he only applies as a single individual and not an authority figure on what is good and evil. Caring about your group is not a selfless act. The system is based on how you behave to everyone.
The rascist is unable to relate to another person because of an arbitrary factor and will hate and harm that person for it. He is Selfish
The Jihadist is inconsiderate of the infidel and demands he adhere to his worldview, but refuses to hear out their beliefs. He is Selfish
>>47013665
>selfish people can be sympathetic
No. They can't. That's literally the meaning of the word. A selfish person won't give a damn about another person's problems.
>>47014369
Well Shadowrun is an alternate future Earth. So there are actual black people in there for Orcs to be.
>>47009211
Kill the little fucker. It's been a good act to do so since ye olde original D&D.
>>47014291
God damn it 5e, always ruining our alignment memes.
>>47009211
>>47014291
>running 5e
>pretending you care about roleplaying
kek
>>47009233
Lost at first post.
>>47013029
From my point of view humans are evil!
I kill it because in this book of words it says it's evil so I do what it says all hail Jesus amen *tips cruxifix*
>>47010488
translation
>lawful evil is best lawful good
>>47009267
>implying orc kid would not be bullied by human kids
>implying orc kid would not accidentally kill one of the bullies after being fed up with the bullying
>implying orc kid would not run away and decide it is a monster after all and decide to act like one
>>47013470
A good God will not demand objectively evil actions, thus a selfless "Jihadist" of Sune will not do evil jihady things. Sounds kind of stupid maybe but keep in mind they're gods, they get to think/decide morality for mortals as a matter of life occupation. I think D&D morality assumes some level of consciousness that is able to objective results from actions. If a creature knows its actions will result in suffering but does them anyway it's on team evil.
A person that followed a hypothetical kind of malevolent deity without great concern for self would probably be something like a Lawful Neutral person in truth that is more dedicated to truthful and honorable action for its own sake rather than the results of it.
>>47009211
That's silly, OP. A baby wouldn't have any concept about being lawful. They are always chaotic neutral.
They push all the boundaries, laugh at everything, or scream at everything, followed by soiling themselves with little thought put into as to why they did so and then they drink the bleach from under the kitchen sink for fun. When asked why they do all of this they just give you a stupid look on their face.
A baby is always That Guy.
>>47014291
We don't give a fuck about your pretend edition that doesn't exist. We all know there's been no new edition since when TSR bankrupted.
>>47009267
I actually played this once.
Much identity confusion.
Ended up true neutral cleric to gorum and abadar instead of sarenrae.
>>47009211
>Trip Paladin
>She falls
Guess you're evil now hue hue.
>>47017548
>I think D&D morality assumes some level of consciousness that is able to objective results from actions
The reason you're confused is that you need to read the post he was responding to, dude.
>>47012976
>Good is Selflessnes
>Evil is Selfishness
That guy forgot that serving a good god is generally the most common sense, practical self benefiting thing imaginable ever period, that's why they talk about eternal bliss. So selfishness is VERY frequently a 100% legitimate motive for a follower of a good god.
Likewise evil clerics and evil cultists very often are only going to receive torture or oblivion for their rewards, others are often suicidally selflessly loyal.
>>47011444
>I'm still a fan of lawful evil orcs, but that is just my old scool ways though.
Chaotic orcs are more old school than lawful orcs actually.
>>47009211
Drown it in a bucket, its what mother would do.
Good thing my paladin carries a dagger of the oath binder, which makes me immune to falling for whatever actions I take with it. Then rescue the baby, butcher it into little meat chunks, and feed the meat chunks to the other party members and my paladin's mount.
>>47017431
I'd watch that.
>>47009211
What would Jesus do?
![1iJY1UL[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/49FEPQA.png "1iJY1UL[1].png")
>>47011596
>>47011631
Because your Emperor says so, you fucking heretics.
>>47011596
>>47011631
>>47009211
>>47018887
That image is glorious.
>>47009211*zip*
>>47018083
>Akshually
warhammer cleverly avoided the baby orc dilemma by making them mushrooms, but compensated by making every other action by the "good" guys horrendously unethical
>>47009211
Gurk always hate evil monsters more than anything, Other orcs want Gurk to smash everyone, but Gurk only really like smashing demons and things like that. One day Gurk smashing bunch of annoying yelling demons when humans in shiny clothes start smashing same yelling demons. Gurk and humans not smash each other, but big human who look kinda orcy and talk orcy tell Gurk that Gurk different and some human gods love Gurk for hating evil, and he want Gurk smash evil with him. After many days of sometimes smashing demons orcy paladin tell Gurk human words and more about gods and demon smashing. Gurk get more excited and smash more, Gurk stronger than the heroes in stories, gods love Gurk best! Orcy paladin says his name Captin Rogan of some order Gurk don't know how to say yet. They say Gurk gonna get a hut by the chapel and they gonna teach Gurk to be a paladin. Gurk gonna smash all the demons.
>>47009211
>implying this is the paladin's problem and not the cleric's.
>>47017219
I love portraying the classical grid as somewhat circular, with extremities starting to seem vaguely as their opposites.
>>47012976
So, Communism is Good?
>>47020608
There is no such thing as good aligned politics since politics is all about damage control.
>>47011596
Tolkien
>>47019280
In what way? In WHFB the good guys factions weren't exactly as insane as they are in 40k.
>>47020794
not insane, but hardly ethical - remember that witch hunters are known to kill ugly people and old spinsters just to be on the safe side
>>47020999
> witch hunters are known to kill ugly people and old spinsters
Not that of an unethical practice, actually - a leprosy epidemic easily leads to ungodly death-tolls. And without functional medical institutions, there is simply no way of containment other than taking everyone who looks like they are infected and rounding them up into leprosariums/burning them alive.
>>47020999
Yeah, but those do not make up a huge part of the Empires population. Also, unlike in real life, magic in Warhammer could be very devastating if left unchecked. One day you have a good guy magician and the next he is possessed by daemons because he didn't know what he was doing. Magic also reshapes personalities of the wielder. Nagash used dark magic from the Dark Elves to create his lore of magic and it's typically why you didn't see a whole lot of non evil necromancers in WHFB.
There is a reason no one likes a witch in the Empire.
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. Remember, O Lord, The Children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem who said, "Raze it, raze it, even to the foundation." O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed. How happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Make no mistake about why we are here. This is an extermination.
In the best of all possible worlds, they would just leave us in peace. But they won't.
I don't enjoy killing, but when done righteously, it's just a chore, like any other.
>>47017792
>>47016036
Grogs gonna grog.
>>47021275
I'm surprised Bethesda gets away with all this shit, in Honest Hearts you're literally an enlightened white man (canon anyway) who genocides entire clan of "natives" and there's the mission Civilized Man's Burden. I guess they could get away with saying "but it's a le critique of the evil that happen(s/ed)" but I aint buying it when I had a blast putting bullets in those fucking savages.
>>47009233
late to the party, but lost it at this
>>47017431
Essentially Nick Wilde without the murder.
I like it.
>>47013646
I'm not talking about the movies. That bit about peaceful orcs was mostly Tolkien backpedalling because he realized orcs didn't make sense on Catholic doctrine, as he had written them as 100% irredeemably evil and universally the servants of darkness. It's a few posthumous letters vs the rest of the setting
>>47009233
>>47024063
Even better when you pick Sneering Imperialist and tell Graham to put a cap into general gobbledigook at the end
>>47024063
There's also the fact that the Zion "natives" are mostly white.
A paladin does not fall when they do something that you might consider evil, they fall when they do something that THEY consider evil, or which violates the edicts of their god or gods. Intent is what matters.
But more generally, for all characters, what I would consider good or lawful would depend on the setting. If orcs are just another kind of humanoid species (say, elder scrolls), where those that are bad are so the same way a human could be bad, then killing the baby is absolutely evil. If orcs are more of evil constructs, brought into existence with blackened souls and incapable of genuine empathy (such as tolkien orcs), then yeah, kill it.
