>Tolkien writes a boring distilled fantasy setting of various boring European folk tales and mythologies, inserts his childish worldview into it, and decades later a hugely successful movie series is made from it.
>George RR Martin creates an even more 'gritty' and bland European fantasy adventure, ripping off even tolkien in parts, almost no fantastic elements at all and plotlines stolen from real world events and yet has a hugely successful TV series and is a popular meme setting to all the normies.
>Meanwhile you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting created from the very best myths and legends from around the world, stuck full of realism and intrigue, inflated with absolute majesty and awe will lounge forever in obscurity and impotence.
Just fuck my life up. This world is garbage.
>not sure if piss-poor b8 or just teenager with delusions of grandeur
Advice - kill yourself, I guess?
>stuck full of realism
People tell you they want realism and you think they want realism, but really, they don't.
Never let realism get in the way of a good story.
>>46975932
Realism more refers to human behavior then physical laws in this case. Especially in a fantasy setting where the Gods are proven to exist, physical laws of the world may operate by and entirely different or absent mechanism.
>>46975884
>myths and legends
>realism
Pick one.
>>46975905
*tips fedora*
>>46976020
>improper use of hat maymay as damage control
Follow his advice.
>>46975884
>>Meanwhile you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting created from the very best myths and legends from around the world, stuck full of realism and intrigue, inflated with absolute majesty and awe will lounge forever in obscurity and impotence.
Nice b8. How many half-dragon half-demon half-wolf mary sue characters have you come up with?
>>46975884
>childish worldview
Please elaborate.
Christopher Paolini detected.
>>46975884
Tolkien's setting is majestic in scope, with a rich tapestry of history and language behind it. No other author has managed to create as magical fantasy world as he did, even to this day. Ah, the scene where the Company arrives at the gates of Moria still chills my bones, the sheer sense of something massive being lost in the history, glories of the ages past...
>>46975884
Cry me a fucking river.
It's only 'boring' because you've seen his love story to fantasy recast into stuff like 80% of Dungeons and Dragons settings, nearly every fantasy video game ever, and every other trashy romance novel a hundred times over.
Christ's sake, he was a linguist by trade, and only wrote Fellowship to Return because people wanted more of The Hobbit (which was godly for a fairy tale and I will fucking fight you in the street if you want to tell me otherwise).
>>46975884
>stuck full of realism and intrigue, inflated with absolute majesty and awe will lounge forever in obscurity and impotence.
have you ever considered it's because you write like a tard?
>>46976061
Muh Always Evil Orcs
Muh Objective Morality
Muh Christianity
>>46975884
>You're
>>46976230
>Muh Always Evil Orcs
>Muh Objective Morality
Orc detected.
>"From my point of view, the paladins are evil!"
>>46975951
Nobody wants that shit. They want good guys. Nobody wants a guy who's true to human behavior; that would imply some sexmad douche who's nice in practice, but has only the most ill intentions.
>>46975884
Well hello mr. fancypants.
Let me tell you something, if your setting is so great, you should have no trouble writing a story set in such a setting.
And if you aren't a coward, you'll post in on here for all of to shit all over it.
>>46976268
I think you're being at least mildly disingenuous here.
>>46976312
I would love to write a story in my setting, but I'm more referring to the setting itself as opposed to boring Tolkien and Martin AND Paolini shit, since I forgot he existed until this thread. I'm working on the setting itself before I right a novel (or an RPG, whichever comes first)
And besides, you would shit on it regardless of its qualities because you are a troll.
Jeez, is asoiaf hated that much, i think the setting is decently put together
GRRM is a giant fucking procrastinator though
>>46976375
>you would shit on it regardless of its qualities because you are a troll.
The irony here is palpable.
Look, I know you think your setting is the bestest ever (like I think mine is) but if you're really going to try and invalidate Tolkien for his style of fantasy, you can't just throw up deflector shields when yours gets torched for having qualities people don't like.
>>46975884
>the best myths and legends from around the world
Sounds like schizophrenic garbage.
>>46976430
>Deflector Shields
No, It comes less from that and more from extremely common shit I see on 4chan all the time, and not just from me.
>Guy says X is bad and he could do better
>Someone says prove it
>Guy says ok and writes out thoughtful or interesting materials
>"lol its shit"
>Regardless of its actual merits or originality
It's just a common trend, I have no intention of repeating that again, I know how this website works don't worry.
>having qualities people don't like
Can you name even one?
>>46976230
The orcs were literally made by Morgoth to be evil murder machines. They aren't even truely sentient since Morgoth wasnt that powerful. They are literally programmed for rape, murder, and people eating.
Let's hear what makes your setting special at least.
>>46976230
>childish
I think Tolkien put a great deal of thought into it, hat man
>>46976473
Well, you aren't exactly breaking trends yourself. Let's take a step outside of your little paradigm and try to see things how I do.
>Guy come online and says he can do better than Wizards/Tolkien/JJ Abrams/Paizo
>Someone says prove it
>Guy says ok
>Nothing ever comes of it
Put your money where your mouth is, and we'll see.
>>46976473
>I could do better
>But I won't prove it because you'll just shit on it anyway
Then as far as anyone is concerned you can't do better AND you're a pussy.
>>46976473
Come on, at least give us the framework/back story for your setting. You can't claim to be the undiscovered genius who managed to create a setting better than Tolkien without providing something more than vague subjective descriptors that have no real substance.
>>46976473
>Can you name even one?
Being written by a pompous asshat.
Protip: It's because Tolkien was one of the greatest writers of 20th century, and you couldn't write your way out of a wet cardboard box.
>>46976473
Did it ever occur to you that people usually say things are shit because they are usually shit?
>>46976537
>>46976538
>>46976544
Fine.
>The setting is ruled, cosmically, by a coalition of dead Gods, nature spirits, and animals that make up a divine bureaucracy.
>Everyone knows it exists, but its less of a religious thing and more of a reality thing (like if you researched what made atoms hold together, it wouldn't be quarks and the strong magnetic force, it would be poetry made from the divine or something
>As such not everyone worships them and many vague cults and Gods which may or may not be real sprung up
>The primary race in the setting is entirely human, but human ethnicities are treated as fantasy races and most a sort of mythological background. (One was made of clay and human hair mixed together, one was shat out of a volcano, one was a mix of human x demon, etc)
>Once again, the racial origins may or may not be true but explain any mystical or strange abilities any racial people may have
>There are also a few other more strange races, like lizard men and trolls, but they live far away and have entirely separate cultural, empires, and Gods.
>Every human nation is deep with both cultural and religion and industry, as well as having many customs and appearances that makes them interesting.
>Currency is mostly trade goods and a few weird ones (fine pottery coins, bits of cloud rolled into bolts of cloth, etc)
>Some Gonzo elements are sprinkled in with realistic human behavior and technology
>Setting is closer to bronze age then iron age, weapons and armor made of bronze.
>Magic has been around since the beginning and civilizations actually take into the account the existence and abilities of Wizards unlike 99% of shitty conworlds everyone else makes all the damn time.
>Monsters are unqiue and not just regurgitated from European folklore
There's the basics; in short a highly original and well made setting that will never be as popular as mainstream shit because its 'too weird' and 'inaccessible' for normies to handle. This is why I'm so pissed off.
>>46976473
Look, if someone says "lol it's shit" then you fucking ignore them.
If someone says "lol, it's shit. Here's why..." then you listen to them, weigh their opinion against yours and make a judgement call. If they point out something seriously wrong with your idea you can either fix it or keep if you have adequate justification.
Were you never taught how to handle criticism? Not everyone here is a troll, some of us will give you honest, fair critique.
>>46976698
I bet it doesn't fit together at all.
>>46976698
I don't see what makes that inaccessible at all.
Dune is more complicated than that.
On another note, how would you feel if this idea did take off and suddenly there are hundreds of copies of it flooded into the market and egotistical autists post on message boards about how unoriginal and boring you are?
>>46976698
>Monsters are unqiue and not just regurgitated from European folklore
>strange races, like . . . trolls
I'm getting mixed messages here.
And there's nothing unique from your summary that makes it any more interesting than Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, or the Old World.
>>46976698
>Every human nation is deep with both cultural and religion and industry, as well as having many customs and appearances that makes them interesting.
>civilizations actually take into the account the existence and abilities of Wizards
>Monsters are unqiue and not just regurgitated from European folklore
Care to elaborate on these points and give some examples?
>>46976698
>human ethnicities are treated as fantasy races and most a sort of mythological background
While it's a fun idea, it's hardly original. It was a common trope/belief in ancient Classical literature
>>46976698
My first reaction is to say 'That's what people think when they think Conan'.
>The primary race in the setting is entirely human, but human ethnicities are treated as fantasy races and most a sort of mythological background. (One was made of clay and human hair mixed together, one was shat out of a volcano, one was a mix of human x demon, etc)
>Once again, the racial origins may or may not be true but explain any mystical or strange abilities any racial people may have
Okay, that's a good start.
>There are also a few other more strange races, like lizard men and trolls, but they live far away and have entirely separate cultural, empires, and Gods.
Lizard men are solid and generally underused. What are they like? More importantly, why are they separate from humans?
>Every human nation is deep with both cultural and religion and industry, as well as having many customs and appearances that makes them interesting.
This tells me nothing, but I hope you expand on it.
>Currency is mostly trade goods and a few weird ones (fine pottery coins, bits of cloud rolled into bolts of cloth, etc)
Currency is very rarely expanded on, because it usually becomes the foci of a plot point if it is, and people hate reading about economics. keep this in mind.
>Some Gonzo elements are sprinkled in
So there are all tales?
>with realistic human behavior and technology
>Setting is closer to bronze age then iron age, weapons and armor made of bronze.
This tells us nothing useful. Why bronze age?
>Magic has been around since the beginning and civilizations actually take into the account the existence and abilities of Wizards unlike 99% of shitty conworlds everyone else makes all the damn time.
What 'is' magic, and what does it do? If Wizards are powerful, why don't dominate everything? If they aren't, why are they useful?
>Monsters are unqiue and not just regurgitated from European folklore
Explain further, as this says nothing otherwise.
>>46976870
>So there are all tales?
*So there are tall tales?
>>46976698
> in short a highly original and well made setting that will never be as popular as mainstream shit because its 'too weird' and 'inaccessible' for normies to handle.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
No. It'll never be popular, because you're a raging autist who wrote something generic and shitty, and would rather bitch about other people's success than try to make it better.
Do us all a favor and kill yourself.
>>46976230
>>46976091
Phillip Pullman detected.
>>46976698
Seems kind of disjointed. Mashing 50 sets of myths and legends into one thing sounds like it could be a huge clusterfuck.
>>46976091
Didnt really have a problem with his books... Years ago. Might be that the Spanish translation sucks less than the original.
Also the low-quality bait threaaad
>>46976698
Now that I think about it, it almost sounds like you're trying to make a generic classic mythology setting. Increase the involvement and pettiness of the gods a bit and you'd only be a stone's throw away from Homer.
you are a child
>>46975884
>>Meanwhile you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting created from the very best myths and legends from around the world, stuck full of realism and intrigue, inflated with absolute majesty and awe will lounge forever in obscurity and impotence.
>implying fa/tg/uys can write better than a hen pecking random keys on a type writer
top kek.
>>46976736
>>46976958
I think it does, but that's just me personally. They are worked from a common background and make more sense in context.
>>46976770
Hmm, I see what you mean. That would be pretty annoying, but the majority of people suck the cocks of the entertainers of the proletariat masses you know. You're going to hear a lot more praise of Tolkien then hate.
>>46976812
While true that Trolls are European folklore, many of the other races are not. It's not that the setting doesn't contain any European folklore, its that its sprinkled in tastefully and makes good sense as well as being aesthetically balanced with the more Eastern Indian and Asian influences.
>>46976818
Sure. In another post, I'll come back to you in a second.
>>46976840
Well yeah, I never said it wasn't based on anything, I said it was based on Bronze/Classical age kind of stuff in the first place, hence why it was chosen as an aesthetic choice.
>>46976902
And you did exactly what I said you would do. Nice move, slave. There isn't a free thought in your head.
>>46977030
Now you're getting it! In the same way most fantasy authors base their fantasy settings on medieval European societies, I base mine more on classic/bronze age societies like Greek, Rome, Sumerians and Egyptians, etc.
However UNLIKE those authors I am also not absolutely married to the concepts and ideas of that time, especially not in regards to religions or cultures, which is a common trap many (boring) writers fall into.
Sounds a lot like Glorantha.
>>46977074
>but the majority of people suck the cocks of the entertainers of the proletariat masses you know.
You lost all credibility as an objective critic in less than a sentence.
For someone whose main argument against Tolkien includes the fact that he put his politics into his writing, I have no doubt you've colored your setting so hard the canvas bleeds.
>>46976818
>Culture
Instead of each culture being presented as a quasi-medieval king and serf style organization, each is given a little more uniqueness and fitting roles instead.
For an example; One nation is ruled by immortal emperors who are attended to by priests who purge every molecule of air they breath, double and triple bleach every cloth they touch and harvest their food only from the purest and pure gardens and groves. These Emperors are immortal because of all of this, but they do not have eternal youth along with it. As such they eventually get horrendously frail and senile, and will almost always die in an accident.
SO as a result this nation has loads of weird and stupid laws because one of their emperors died to some stupid thing, which plays into their cultural and legal background. ie; you can't build fences made of wood or metal near buildings because an emperor fell out of a window and impaled himself on a fence once. So now people use gentle bushes or long reedy plants as privacy screens instead, or hanging cloth in richer neighborhoods.
>Wizards
Societies from the beginning in this setting know that Wizards and magic exist and they are commonly used in all areas of life. Unlike many other settings though this magic is not very scientific, even the most 'scientific' and repetitive forms of magic such as potions and magic scrolls are based highly on subjective thoughts and power levels of Wizards. (Scrolls can only be written by Gods, as such they are usually stolen from heaven by people, or they bribe members of the Divine Bureaucracy for them, as such they cannot be mass produced.) Mostly this is a way to keep Wizards from 'industrializing' magic and generally being unfun and unrealistic to boot.
As for more specific examples; Wizards exist in every level of society from Hedge Wizards and Witches who help their communities, to cruel bastard mercenaries, to land owning aristocrats and Kings.
This went on a bit long, one more.
>>46975884
I'm actually writing a novel with a setting that's been in my head for years.
Even if it never gets published, or popular, I'm not going to let myself forget the setting and kick myself later.
If you want your setting to be remembered, then write it down, and make a story. Don't wallow in sadness because someone's work got popular.
Have you considered the fact that it is you who are garbage?
>>46976818
>Magic cont.
Magic is more based on the creation of things like magic items or getting your hands on minions and such then fireballs and other immensely powerful things, though some of that stuff obviously exists. The purpose of all this is that if extremely powerful fighting magic existed, armies would just be fitted by Wizards, but they aren't. A Wizard would be much better served in an army creating a large amount of mud or using a strategic storm or bank of fog at the right time. Also because of the rest of this setting the bank of fog probably cheated on his wife and the Wizard won't tell anyone as long as he blinds the enemy for this next fight or something weird like that.
Finally
>Monsters
Many of the monsters are entirely original or based on less explored folklores.
For example, Stone Finger (native american monster that eats livers and is made of stone) makes an appearance, as does wholesale original creations- The Kidney Ghoul, for instance, likes to ferment people's organs for his alcoholic brews. He attacks with claws but has the special ability to inject people with a long prehensile tongue full of alcoholic blood, so it makes whoever he is fighting drunk off their ass. I don't think there is any other monster out there that does that.
>>46977118
Are you referring to 'colored' as in mistakenly inserting blacks and such where they don't belong? That really isn't the purpose of my setting nor does it feature. I don't even mention the skin tone of the races at all unless it is relevant.
>>46976698
none of this is the least bit original
have you read any fantasy BESIDES Tolkien and GRRM?
or are you just desperate for attention? can't find a group so you're desperate for validation of your setting? how did you get so """"""""superior"""""""" and full of yourself you pathetic narcissist?
>>46977213
>>46977145
Is this supposed to be a humor-style setting? Between the senile emperors, the cheating fog bank, and the free alcohol Ghoul it kind of sounds like it would make for a decent "comedy" setting.
>>46975884
>Tolkien writes a boring distilled fantasy setting of various boring European folk tales and mythologies
>you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting created from the very best myths and legends from around the world
Please try to tell me what "very best myths and legend" make fucking Beowulf and norse cosmology look boring.
>in before potato myths pretending they're relevant
Also
>getting dismayed over the success of others
Kill yourself now. GRRM has 1/10th the net worth of Stephenie Meyer. Shit will be lopped up by the masses because no amount of quality is what the market wants.
>>46977145
>>46977213
Not seeing anything terribly unique here besides the whacky laws of the immortal empires.
Honestly, it seems like you aren't very literate in fantasy settings and only have read the bog standard D&D 3.X settings. I mean your magic system is basically what Warhammer's Araby used.
>>46977213
>Are you referring to 'colored' as in mistakenly inserting blacks and such where they don't belong?
No, it was a metaphor for writing with a political bent that I thought more people used- due to political 'colors'.
>Blue State
>Red State
>Green Party
>Red Communism
>Black Anarchism
>White Pacifism
>etc.
I guess not.
>>46977074
>And you did exactly what I said you would do. Nice move, slave. There isn't a free thought in your head.
Kek. No I didn't. Your statement required the posting of something that was thoughtful or interesting. Your post is neither.
In your "unique and creative setting so much better than tolkien guize for srs." You've created something with the depth of a kiddie pool.
.
You admitted to copying bronze age culture and tech because you like the aesthetic, not because it makes any sense. The bronze age didn't exist just because humanity hadn't researched Iron on the tech tree, it was a combination of social, political, geographical, and scientific factors.
>>46975884
Just go to reddit. Your desire to be a special snowflake would fit in well with those mouth breathing 'intellectuals'.
>>46976698
>one was a mix of human x demon
ayyyy
>>46977304
Not OP here, but I got your meaning the first time and I've heard the term "colored" used that way before, though rarely.
>>46977074
I'm not sure what's supposed to be original or impressive about trading the shackles of medieval fantasy for those of classical fantasy.
>>46977304
Well you'd be correct in assuming not, my political views are neither really present nor even relevant.
Your post did illustrate another problem I have with 'generic' fantasy settings anyway, even Elder Scrolls is guilty of it though I think that one is pretty good compared to a lot of other ones out there.
Basically my setting doesn't use modern political viewpoints or beliefs because they are extremely irrelevant. Societies this old may require slavery to function, societies this primitive may require war as a way to cull unneeded aggressive males from the population and may be the only way for someone to advance in their city-state's system of government for example. It's not the same world, so how can someone put a blanket over it?
>>46977200
>>46977247
>>46977306
>>46977317
I already made a post addressing all of your concerns. Read the following post >>46976473 I've beaten you to the punch about 30+ posts ago. Try to keep up next time.
>>46977330
*unseaths fedora"
psst
*teleport behind u*
nothin personel, normie
*tips you*
>>46975884
>childish worldview
>from a man who has seen more shit and lived more life than you ever will
Well that was fun.
>>46977346
>Societies this old may require slavery to function
>implying slave societies are the norm of civilizations
>implying societies with slaves aren't the more stable and numerous examples of civilizations in the world
![[shitposting fucktouples].gif](https://i.imgur.com/MD7HLH2.gif "[shitposting fucktouples].gif")
>>46977346
Keep talking OP, this is some funny shit.
>>46975884
Nice bait.
Also you're a faggot.
>>46977346
Your system doesn't seem consistent with your statements.
>>46977145
>For an example; One nation is ruled by immortal emperors who are attended to by priests who purge every molecule of air they breath, double and triple bleach every cloth they touch and harvest their food only from the purest and pure gardens and groves.
But this is a Bronze Age setting, so I would assume this is done by magic.
However,
>Unlike many other settings though this magic is not very scientific, even the most 'scientific' and repetitive forms of magic such as potions and magic scrolls are based highly on subjective thoughts and power levels of Wizards.
How do these two statements not contradict one another?
Do the Priests just tell the dust to go away or something? Why isn't everyone doing this?
What I'm seeing here is
>Magic functions consistently in the same way
>But it's designed to be unpredictable and uncontrollable
Can you explain?
>>46975884
This post gave me cancer
>>46975884
Let's see it hotshot. Put it on pastebin.
>>46976375
>before I right a novel
>right
Practice practice practice.
>>46977445
Man this thread was just what I needed. Now my ass cancer has ass cancer.
>>46977427
You're hinging to pedantically to what 'repeatable' or 'scientific' really means.
Just because something is repeatable does not make it scientific. Maybe it is based on superstition or folklore, maybe it is based on luck or the spirits or Gods, maybe it is based on misunderstood actual scientific principles that people believe wont' work without a lot of unnecessary ritual and pageantry. The truth is it doesn't matter because it does not need to be nor is it explained what the people in that world actually know or believe to be true.
However, to answer your second question more specifically. The reason why not everybody does the immortal emperor thing is because it is both a privilege only allowed to the Emperor and maybe his wife (usually not, women are not treated very well in this culture, once again not injected modern morality needlessly), and it is something that costs an inordinate amount of wealth and effort to maintain.
Not all of it is necessarily 'magical' either. For example, the pure gardens where he is given his food and water are just maintained by hard work and laws. In fact, if any human who excretes in them they can be put to death for it, with the exception to really pure animals like pure white doves. Once again, that's a bit of realism injected in to make things interesting, as doves were actually prized for their fertilizer in the medieval ages.
To give a more real world example, imagine if the pope could cast a spell of 'purify food and drink', but it only works if he is the only pope and you can't give more people the ability. Now he may be able to go to Africa and help solve hunger and water sanitation problems there, but he's just one guy.
Unlike in most fantasy settings, especially ones that are not well written, I keep magic interesting, mysterious, and full of flavor. It's not video game or Vancian stuff, and its sure as hell not 'cheat codes to the universe' garbage regurgitated on this board all the time.
>>46976154
The hobbit is less than 2 thin cunt hairs from mediocre, I live in Seattle near 12th and Massachusetts, I'm under 6' and dont work out, Id be happy to get beaten up cuz it would help show you how empty your attempt to defend that shit is
>>46977644
Welp, I'm halfway across the nation, so this is never happening.
Seriously, though?
It's exactly what it sets out to be- the story of a very small person setting out into a world much larger than he's ever been used to, facing down the forces of evil in his own way while accompanying a group of allies he earns the respect of along the way.Please tell me you're not talking about the movie.
I know your pain OP
Mythology and folklore is boring as fuck
Slow paced, purple prose, weird names, and idiotic black/white conflicts between archetypes and plot devices rather than people
"Dark fantasy" like Martin is no better
>And then after the evil assholes raped and killed the semi good guys, EVEN BIGGER evil assholes tortured and killed those evil assholes. And everyone was miserable forever. The end.
Making everyone an unrealistic cunt isn't "grownup" it's teenage angst
And God forbid anyone tell a light hearted story
>>46976230
>>46975884
Why do you care so much about money?
Also, joke's on you, I only RP urban fantasy and the likes, the superior RPGenre.
>>46976048
>half-dragon
>half-demon
>half-wolf
How the shit does this even work?
>>46976230
*tips the hat of enlightenment*
>>46977639
>women are not treated very well in this culture, once again not injected modern morality needlessly
If you honestly believe that all Bronze Age civilizations are rampantly misogynistic in a modern sense then you have a poor grasp of history. Especially since you seem unable to distinguish the effects that class has on sexism.
>>46977644
>fite me IRL
wew lad
>>46977675
>Mythology and folklore is boring as fuck
>Slow paced, purple prose, weird names, and idiotic black/white conflicts between archetypes and plot devices rather than people
*tips fedora*
>>46975884
I bet you think Terry Pratchett was ripping off JK Rowling, too.
>>46977639
If 'it just works that way' is your explanation, just fucking come out and say it.
>>46976020
Nah just kill yourself. It worked for many artists. Maybe your work becomes famous after your death.
>>46977364
You're a garbage dicked faggot, do you really think anyone who lived a long time ago has any chance of seeing and doing as much as a modern person, no, and tolkien was absolutely unremarkable. His work is absolutely exceptional except for introducing elves and orcs in their current form, not very good literature, at all, and compared to the best of modern sci-fi it's piss poor, but of course most modern fantasy is standing on his shoulders so it will never be topped ever in your retarded opinion, with people like you it will always be either watered down warcraft tier shit or tolkien nostalgia,
>>46976950
Pullman wrote decent book at least.
>>46977859
>His work is absolutely exceptional except for introducing elves and orcs in their current form, not very good literature, at all,
>absolutely exceptional
>>46977859
>anything written by a modern person is automatically better that anything written by OLD people
>surviving the meatgrinder of WW1 is unremarkable
>living through the introduction of the machine gun, aeroplane, and tank as weapons of war is unremarkable
>implying modern sci-fi can even hold a candle to the boundary-pushing speculative fiction of the 1970s
Fun Fact:
Your hombrew is dogshit.
Yes, literally all of them.
>>46977859
I dunno, the Somme seems like a lot more real life experience than you could ever hope to experience sipping lattes at Starbucks.
>>46977917
Aw, come on.
Could I at least get the upgrade to BS?
>>46977673
No im not talking about the movie, "It's exactly what it sets put to be"- and it doesn't fucking set out to be much, the story could be told in a more fairytale fashion, and it could be a better fairy tale, or it could have tried to be an actually good book to read, but instead Tolkien chose to make a small but significant cultural achievement, it's a lively blend of half mythic drivel, that could have been more consistent and maybe also an actual modern story where stupid shit like a dragon having one missing scale isnt the reason the world didnt end
>>46975884
>Tolkien writes a boring distilled fantasy setting of various boring European folk tales and mythologies
are you retarded
Tolkien's elves being human-sized friendlies is a massive change from the European folk tales and mythologies of tiny sociopaths kidnapping your children for the lulz
Tolkien's dwarves being half Jews is, again, a massive change from the European folk tales where "dark elves" = "dwarves"
Tolkien's practically invented the "orc" out of a rare word that meant little more than "monster" in European folk tales and mythologies, and described them so vividly that a thousand less creative authors copied it into Standard Fantasy Orc.
PS: if you pay attention to what Tolkien wrote, you'll see they're usually not even copied well, because the original orcs of Middle-Earth are the most technologically advanced race. From the hobbit:
> They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones. It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosives always delighted them.
>>46977913
Hurr phillip k dick is so speculative, i live in the age of the internet and masturbate to Tolkien's totally *unexceptional shit because he went to a war
Why is it that every attempt by neckbeards to write "original" fantasy sounds like the ramblings of a schizo?
Traditional storytelling just flows naturally in comparison
>The goddess of chaos isn't invited to a wedding and sends an apple addressed "to the fairest"
>To avoid a divine shitstorm a special shepherd boy in the mountains has to judge them
>He's offered power, glory, and love
>He chooses love and runs away with the wife of a powerful king
>King rallies his allies from all over the region and goes to war with the shepherd's people in their nearly impenetrable city
>The epic tale begins...
>A baby born to a slave race is sent away by his mother for his own safety
>He is miraculously discovered by the princess of his very oppressors and raised as her son
>Boy is raised as a prince and lives in luxury until he sees one of his own people getting beaten
>He intervenes and accidentally kills the overseer
>He flees to the desert to live among a tribe of herders
>One day while looking for a sheep he encounters the God of his true people who tells him to be his messenger and instrument on earth
>Destiny awaits him back home...
VS
>uh, there's 1000 worlds of magic dimensional planes between double spirit gods who created a world where everything is made of cheese on a subconscious level and there's 5 flying cities powered by psychic thought forms from the 2nd dimension ruled by different republics where everyone does handstands and worships the green gloob, oh yeah plus elves
Am I groundbreaking yet?
>>46975884
Maybe it hurts so bad because you're a try-hard failure; my players will never know the days to weeks of work I put into their setting, they'll just have some fun because they enjoy when I run games.
And maybe once or twice within a few month period, they'll remark on something they've just noticed is kinda strange, and I'll just nod my head as they shrug and continue down the adventure they want to go with, unknowing of the entire social conventions about MERELY the treatment of the corpses of executed criminals.
And you know why this doesn't bother me? Because I'm alive, the sun is shining, I'm with friends, and my 'lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting' is being enjoyed by said friends, even if they only choose to explore the most basic level of it. And we have fun.
Compared to historical importance, I'd keep what I got any day of the week.
>>46975884
Or you know maybe those incredibly talented authors created genuinely interesting settings with well written stories set in them (although I do agree with you in my distaste for GOT as a setting)
>>46977729
>If you honestly believe that all Bronze Age civilizations are rampantly misogynistic
I don't, that wasn't the intention, that's why I specified 'in thus culture', not every culture, nor even especially in this one.
I know you're being very critical but you shouldn't go over board by assuming things I didn't say as being huge things.
>>46978035
I speaking of Frederick Turner, among others.
Dumb millennial pleb.
>>46976485
Tolkien actually kind of went back on that. He mentioned in a letter that there are peaceful Orc villages somewhere but they just aren't part of the story. He never really liked the whole inherently evil thing.
>>46978042
Nice strawman. Also, nice shitposting. I know you're talking shit about OP'S setting. If you think anything about classic and high mythology is 'le schizo' you have shit taste. Also, remember you only have a snapshot, not a full game or book.
>>46977979
>it's a lively blend of half mythic drivel, that could have been more consistent
How is it not consistent?
>and maybe also an actual modern story where stupid shit like a dragon having one missing scale isnt the reason the world didnt end
If I'm not mistaken, the great evil having a singular weakness is a common fantasy cliche- which he was almost certainly pointing to with this.
Also, the whole point of a fairy tale is NOT to be a 'modern' story. It's supposed to tread on recurring concepts that have stood the test of times, the questions people always come back to.
I mean, there's an implicit conflict between Thorin and Bilbo- the inner tension people have between compromise for the sake of peace and risking everything to keep what you believe you deserve.
>>46978035
And Herbert, and Niven, and Ursula K Leguin, and Clarke, and Pournelle, and Douglas Adams.
You're really bad at this
>>46978042
Funny how the first two examples are narratives while the latter is just setting dressing with no narrative. It's almost like you're purposely trying to get a false positive.
>>46978104
>reading comprehension
>>46978004
Don't forget the One Ring.
In the format of older tales it would have been a) taken up by a Gandalf/Aragorn-type and used to crushinate Sauron and bring about a golden age, or b) redeemed or neutralized by Frodo's power of love and then Frodo and everyone could live happily ever after.
But in Lord of the Rings there's a shift to a deadly artifact actually too powerful for the heroes to wield, even the pure of heart, that no amount of mary suing can overcome. The metaphor is "power corrupts" rather than "power is fucking awesome if only we put it in the hands of the good guys" for once. Even Frodo is corrupted by the end, claims the Ring for his own, loses it to an upset Gollum, then has to live out his days wounded in body and soul, gets kicked out of the world to forcible retirement in the Undying Lands, and then (unlike, say, Arthur resting in Avalon) it turns out that Frodo dies the fuck anyway there because the "undying" lands were named for the mostly elvish inhabitants, not for their magic powers of granting immortality.
>>46978154
I dunno, man. I still think the whole 'power of love' thing is reinforced in how Sam was a fucking badass Paladin type who the orcs thought was a god damn Elvish god-king as he wrecked his way through them. Pretty sure one of the lines was how they thought he was wielding both magic and blade against them or something like that.
>>46978035
>Hurr phillip k dick is so speculative, i live in the age of the internet and masturbate to Tolkien's totally *unexceptional shit because he went to a war
Hurr ancillary pronoun is so groundbreaking, i live in the age of the vibrator and masturbate to Scalzi's totally unexceptional shit because it has star trek jokes
>>46978122
Are you fucking kidding me, you called me a pleb and this is the shit you were talking about? None of that shit, except dune is even any better than tolkien as literature and as speculative sci fi it's all kinda hollow and predictable next to Iain m Banks
>>46978154
Tolkien was amazing by taking one of the most common sorts of legends and inverting it
A quest to be RID of something rather than acquiring something
>>46978207
Maybe that's supposed to tell people that even in the face of inescapable corruption, even just a little emotional support and inner resolve can be what it takes to turn a hopeless situation into something survivable?
Maybe I'm just overthinking things and he thought it would be rad to have a hobbit cleave the fuck out of some orcs so hard that they got scared.
>>46978226
I mean I get people have different taste but Herbert, Niven, and Clark are all classic authors who have written a large portion of the best and most influential scifi novels if all time.
>>46978207
>I still think the whole 'power of love' thing is reinforced in how Sam was a fucking badass Paladin type who the orcs thought was a god damn Elvish god-king as he wrecked his way through them
Point taken. But I'd say it's part paladin, part berserker rage, part artifact gear, and part paranoid orcs living around Shelob.
Speaking of Sam, he has this funny "accidentally paladin" moment right at the start of the book that you only understand in retrospect or on rereading the book. Some "large fellow" (=Man) has come to the Shire, sniffing around, asking very nosy questions about Baggins, and Sam says quite sharply to be off with you, mind your own business, good day sir!
And then you learn just what these Men are and why they were asking for Baggins and realize that Sam basically flipped off a Nazgul.
>>46975884
>inserts his childish worldview into it
You might disagree about Middle-earth being boring, but this is 100% true. He was a great writter, a war vet an accomplished professor but not a great man.
>>46976698
What's the tone of the setting? What are the major overarching themes? What are people supposed to connect with? Your post tells me nothing.
Go back and start over, OP. This time do it with the knowledge that """"""originality"""""", """"""realism"""""", and autistic minutiae are the least important parts of a setting.
>>46978293
If you really think about it, the most impressive part about it is that the Nazgul listened.
>>46978226
>Banks better than Adams, Clarke, or Herbert
Am I being trolled? You really trying to tell me the nigger who wrote Consider Phlebas and Exshitsen ranked higher in your estimation than one of the Big Three?
>>46978226
Wasp Factory was his only good book, his scifi opera setting was shallow and repetitive
>>46978293
> basically flipped off a Nazgul
That wasn't Sam, that was his father the Gaffer. Runs in the family, I guess.
And now I wonder if the Gaffer ever found out just who he flipped off.
>>46978311
>the most impressive part about it is that the Nazgul listened.
I guess premature murderhoboing would have run the risk of scaring off whoever had the ring, so the nazgul had to bite his tongue and settle for keeping a mental list of Midgets Who Shall Receive Particularly Painful Stabbings After I'm Done With This Stupid Fetch Quest.
>>46976712
This.
>>46977065
B-but cool greentext stories...
>>46977729
>Fedora reply
But folklore is indeed written and altered by peasantry. It's greentrext that survived test of time, nothing more.
>>46977699
Gilgamesh.
>It's an "OP vs everyone else in the thread" thread
Fun stuff. Just so you know OP your setting isn't nearly as interesting and well formed as you think.
>>46976473
>"lol its shit"
>Regardless of its actual merits or originality
Or maybe it really is shit?
>>46976698
Sounds shit.
>>46977346
You're autistic.
Op kill yourself
>>46975932
This is true for mechanics too. Being told something flat out doesn't work is the sign of a bad DM apparently, but in reality a load of stuff simply doesn't work. People want to fell clever, they don't want to solve genuinely difficult problems.
>>46978982
Why did she have a camera set up in her home?
>>46979014
It's a relative or the sitter iirc.
>>46978982
wtf is wrong with people
>>46979113
>IndianBaptism.webm
>>46975884
>>46976698
>you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting
YOUR
>they live far away and have entirely separate cultural, empires, and Gods
CULTURES
>Setting is closer to bronze age then iron age
THAN
>Monsters are unqiue
UNIQUE
>most a sort of mythological background
This sentence a word
I could go on about the higher level mistakes in your setting, but those are a lot more subjective, so let's stick to the objective mistakes for the moment. Nor will I nitpick lazy capitalization or missing apostrophes in "its" - those are practically correct within the shitpost format of 4chan. But when you write "separate cultural" and follow up by repeating the error in "deep with both cultural and religion", it can't be passed off as an accident or isolated incident any more. You are persistently using the wrong words.
Furthermore, while I realize that the niceties of composition don't always determine truth, accuracy, or quality (for example, I met a master gardener once who was practically illiterate), they are far more important to settingcrafting, not necessarily as prerequisites, but also as side effects of the curriculum. Unless you live in a strictly oral culture - in which case what the hell are you doing on 4chan? and why are you talking about Sumer, whose stories we have only in written form? - you NEED to read and write a couple fuckloads of material to get the basis down for settingcrafting. You need the wealth of knowledge to draw on, and you need the practice. You are giving every indication that you have not read or written fuckloads. You are at best out of practice, if ever you practiced in the first place. You are visibly failing DC 10 Craft(Sentence) checks and you want us to believe that you are not only passing but acing Craft(Paragraph), Craft(Chapter) and Craft(Novel) checks. This is not plausible.
Or as anon put it:
>>46976219
>have you ever considered it's because you write like a tard?
Even IF you setting idea was any good the hostile, arrogant and whiny way you have gone about presenting it would mean nobody would be positive.
Shitting over one of the best fantasy books ever written with a fantastic and well realised world because 'hurr European mythology sucks and is boring' just makes you appear childish.
Oh, and:
>>46976375
>before I right a novel
write
>>46977213
>as does wholesale original creations
do
OP, there is no royal road to wisdom. You will just have to read, write, read, write, until you have the fundamental building blocks down pat. What you've done is like sketching a tower and saying this makes you a better architect than the boring noideas faggot who built your house. It really doesn't. Build a house of your own that stands up first, then work on a tower. Do less theorizing, less bitching about how terrible everyone else is, and more putting in the fucking work to not write like a tard. Get a seventeen-volume history of ONE of your chosen influences and read it through, it'll serve you better in learning both writing and reasons than five one-volume superficial splatbooks of different places. Then get a seventeen-volume history of the next place and read that.
No, this isn't glamorous at all. Did you expect it to be?
>>46978863
>>46978889
Ebin shit posts bro.
This thread is shit/
Post something coll and unique about your homebrew anons.
You do have one,right?
OP, it's true that most fantasy settings don't go into autistic detail about such things as religion, politics and economy but there's a reason for it. Such autistic minutae would take an entire book to properly develop and nobody would read it. To be novel material, a setting should revolve around a conflict and the narrative should have to focus on something. Tolkien's setting is crafted in such a way as to provide a ground for heroic individuals to tread and perform heroic deeds of objective morality on, as a modern heroic myth. GRRM's setting mainly focuses on noble houses and intrigue since that is what his main characters are involved in. Even developed settings in the more interactive mediums such as Warcraft, TES, various DnD settings only kinda skim on such things as economy or religion since 99% of players will be more invested in other things. Such comprehensive worldbuilding is only tenable as a personal project, but not ultimately marketable.
Your setting also doesn't sound unique at all. Literalist ancient myths with people made from clay or whatever? Already done somewhere. Bronze-iron age fantasy? Glorantha, Conan. Non-european mythological creatures? DnD is chock full of those.
Tolkien literally took obscure European mythology and completely reinvented it in such a way that it continues to shape our fantastic thinking even today. You're just mashing together a bunch of stuff "Tolkien and GRRM didn't write about" and hope it sticks while hailing it as the new word of god. But nothing about it is consistent, unique or good.
>>46979462
My most recent D&D homebrew setting is a demiplane deliberately set up with endless recurring wars between good and evil and endless sources of adventure because a minor deity wanted to build an army to invade/colonize the Far Realm.
Said deity couldn't just cast Create High-Level Adventurer, but *could* set up a demiplane, invite other deities and races to colonize it, incite endless war, covertly back whichever side is losing this decade, cast Create Treasure-Filled Underground Ruin, and skim off the top adventurers every few years in order to accumulate a collection of people who could survive the Far Realm for more than a round.
When the PCs persist in not getting skimmed off, they will eventually realize how increasingly artificial the setting is ("considering our ratio of dungeon clearing to dungeon construction, why the fuck are there still dungeons?"), encounter this minor deity and, I presume, forcibly make it stop playing gladiatorial games with entire species.
content or gtfo
>>46976132
Anon, that's just nostalgia.
He was mediocre at best.
I don't recommend you re-read it...
>>46978982
niggers gonna nig baka
>>46975884
Here's a thought.
Have you actually produced something of worth, or is this just a nice idea in your head?
If it is just an idea in your head, then you are something that is known as "idea guy".
Everyone is an "idea guy". Everyone has their homebrew setting, perfect world which is interesting and colorful, full of mystery and adventure.
The problem is, that it doesn't exist. There are no books, no stories, no way for anyone else to know this world. No games, no movies.
If it doesn't exist, then only thing you can do is to create something. Whining how you are not respected with no actual work behind your words is delusional at best.
>>46979599
That's kind of a long shot anon, you better have good, attentive players or else they'll just play it as Dungeongrind: The Murderhoboing XXVI and called you a faggot afterwards.
>>46979724
>called
*call
fucking phone
>>46979626
Even rereading it as an adult you can be surprised by its depth
>>46979724
If they want to play Dungeongrind: The Murderhoboing, that's fine, that's a longstanding tradition of D&D, I have no objection to this. But I will make it increasingly obvious that someone is fucking with them by creating dungeons and monsters of the week and propping up evil overlords and generally unfixing whatever they fixed.
Like, BBEG kidnaps party member's family. Party kills BBEG, rescues family.
Week later another BBEG has kidnapped family again. Party kills BBEG, rescues family, hires some guards.
Week later another BBEG has kidnapped family again. Guards saw nothing, since this BBEG teleported them directly to dungeon. Party kills BBEG, rescues family, installs anti-teleports and contingency on family, binds extraplanar guards.
Week later another BBEG has kidnapped family again. Contingencies are dissolved, wards disjoined, guards banished...
I don't think they need to be that attentive to get the hint eventually.
>>46975884
>you're lovely
You bet I am
Jesus Christ! Look at all this stupidity! I'm leaving this shit before I get sick, but first let me give you some advice:
Go study some literature. You guys have no clue of that is if you're shit-talking Tolkien.
>>46977859
>do you really think anyone who lived a long time ago has any chance of seeing and doing as much as a modern person
Absolutely.
People born in the 30's walked on the moon.
>>46977065
Did they leak another GoT episode!? Where did you get that Melisandre?
I'm not even mad. This thread is amazing. You are truly a master baiter, OP.
OP, I recommend that you watch The Apprentice. Pay attention to the people who shit talk Trump or Lord Sugar.
>have a setting
>probably not super original or anything but quite proud of it
>can't post it due to fear of being stolen
>>46976698
Setting sounds decent and fairly interesting, not genius or anything, but pretty good. Of course, that description was really vague, so it might still be shit and I'd have no way of knowing.
>>46980207
Do you use it?
Are you writing a story in it?
Or are you just burying it in your backyard like the miser's lump of gold?
>>46980313
writing, but it's constant revision after revision because a few months after I write a part I realize how bad is it and go back and fix everything
main issue is fitting the big background narrative in it, the basic story isn't very difficult
>>46980329
Have you got an editor?
>>46979014
The father noticed his daughter had bruises
This was a nanny cam
Old bitch had the shit beaten out of her and he got to walk free when they saw the vid in court
Uganda
>>46977639
Not to make you wail. But that's actually how elves did magical items in the first age and age of the trees.
>>46976698
So Robert E. Howard's Kull/Conan world, then. Your setting isn't inherently better than Tolkien's in any way.
>>46976230
>Muh Always Evil Orcs
They are.
>Muh Objective Morality
That's how morality works bruh.
>Muh Christianity
It's about time Elves accepted Jesus as their lord and savior.
>>46977213
>Are you referring to 'colored' as in mistakenly inserting blacks and such where they don't belong?
Are you actually on the spectrum or are you simply not a native speaker? I'm not even trying to mock you I'm legit curious?
>>46976698
>Every human nation is deep
How?
>as well as having many customs and appearances that makes them interesting.
What are they?
>Magic has been around since the beginning and civilizations actually take into the account the existence and abilities of Wizards unlike 99% of shitty conworlds everyone else makes all the damn time.
How so?
>Monsters are unqiue and not just regurgitated from European folklore
Tell me about them.
>>46979866
90+% of us aren't shit talking good old Tolkers.
OP is being a bigger ginormous faggot than usual and we are all pointing an laughing because it's a slow day on /tg/ and their isn't anything good on the telly.
Give me a world that doesn't take place in that world's "Dark Ages".
Every time, all fantasy, they talk about that great Kingdom with knowledge and technology far beyond the current.
Give me story of the fall of their world's sumerians, Phoenicians and hittites. The kingdoms that had no great ruins before them.
I wanna read the book of their fall.
>>46981252
Sure there's Conan. But Conan takes place in these empires ascension.
>>46980207
Make a blog and post it there. Problem solved.
>>46981252
>not having multiple "Dark Ages" in your settings
The world was ruled by fish people...until the world cooled and the icecaps formed.
Then it was ruled by insect people...until the oxygen content drastically dropped.
Then it was ruled by snake people...until the world cooled even further and the elves got uppity.
Then it was ruled by elves...until they fell into a bloody religious war
Now it's ruled by humans.
I wish I could feel something outside of acrimonious joy. It's a special kind of feeling I have now.
Regardless I'm feeling much more confident in my own works as I've navigated the pitfalls presented here.
>>46981488
That's cool too. If there's another nonhuman/nonelf species responsible.
But man Dark Age stories are lame. Cause all the cool stuff is always only mentioned and never actually revealed, except at the end of the story when big bad from that age returns.
No! I wanna read the tragedy of the struggle against this, hopefully grey, evil.
Or the maybe in the POV of how that evil ones good is corrupted. Like the diary of a person losing sanity.
>>46975884
>Meanwhile you're lovely, handcrafted fantasy setting created from the very best myths and legends from around the world, stuck full of realism and intrigue, inflated with absolute majesty and awe will lounge forever in obscurity and impotence.
There are like eight problems with this sentence alone. Can't wait to read your novels.
>>46976698
Your setting is shit, especially if you want to write novels about it. Here's why: you have no point.
Truly great works of literature, no matter the genere, are not just stories. They speak about something greater and deeper, bring to light aspects of human nature, they comment on the world in an indirect, interesting and entertaining way. You have none of that.
Tolkien's works contain a myriad of christian themes, using symbolisim and allegory to comment on the state of our world.
You talk about how your humans are "realistic", but that is most likely what your problem is. Your so focused on creating a realistic world that you lose aspects that can be used to make your work into something more than a mere story. Characters, settings, every little bit of diction and detail should all be used to make a greater point, like Shakespeare does as he comments on the nature of morality in "macbeth", or how Hawthorne explores the nature of sin and guilt in the scarlet letter.
Literature is supposed to have a point, amd you don't.
>>46981998
I'd pitch in for a copy just to see the dramatic reading and comment section.
>>46981931
Just read some epic poetry. Many of them are like that, hence the term in medias res
>>46977893
>Muh forced atheism
>Muh god was the bad guy
>Muh uniqueincomprehensiblenarrative and setting
Pullman was the original fedoralord.
>>46978073
My hack genre authors are ever so superior to your hack genre authors, you dunce.
>>46977639
>usually not, women are not treated very well in this culture, once again not injected modern morality needlessly
This would be why you're unpopular.
People really can't relate to moral standards that aren't their own. Even on 4chan most people can't tolerate alien moral standards.
Like for example some people on here say child pornography shouldn't be illegal for consistent and logical reasons and everyone else looses their shit regardless of the reasoning behind it. I'm probably going to get replies for this posting this too and they won't even realize the irony.
>>46975884
Post your homebrew, let us rate it.
>>46980496
Can't use editor. Will steal my ideers.
>>46979822
Oh snap dawg
>>46982225
>This would be why you're unpopular.
No. He is unpopular because he is a pompous cretin with absolutely no taste or literary talents who exclusively speaks about how amazing he is and how his generic ideas are ground breaking and everybody else is just stupid for not appreciating his work.
It has fuck all to do with morals, and you are also absolutely wrong about people not being able to deal with foreign morals. First of all: different gender policies are not foreign and alien to us. We had only started fucking up our own gender roles like thirty years ago. Second of all, people still enjoy genre fiction, fantasy schlock, movies chock-full of misogyny, movies made in different cultures (just how many people appreciates anime despite the fact that their gender views are very different from our own?).
You are going to get a lot of replies for saying something completely stupid, not because people can't relate to your moral stands.
>>46978042
>goddess of chaos
Actually she´s the goddess of discord. That´s why she doesn´t make a huge chaos when she gets pissed, she just sends them an apple and lets people be people.
>>46982225
This isn't a "moral standards" issue, it's a propaganda issue from presentists talking about how much better we supposedly treat women in the present than in the past. Meanwhile, polls show that for all the nice treatment, women's happiness has been steadily declining: http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969
Anon has been listening to propaganda and thinks women were treated badly in the past, as though these women weren't some men's mothers, sisters, and daughters, in a time when family mattered more than it does now.
What was actually up is that a) women were less PRESTIGIOUS, which is different from being treated badly, and b) EVERYONE had it worse overall because you got sick and the doctor bled you and you got sicker and died, and all the other issues of living before electricity or penicillin or running water or what have you.
>>46982353
> He is unpopular because he is a pompous cretin with absolutely no taste or literary talents who exclusively speaks about how amazing he is and how his generic ideas are ground breaking and everybody else is just stupid for not appreciating his work.
People with far worse writing skills are more well known than OP, take for instance the piles and piles of fan fiction and shitty japanese light novels.
Settings aren't that interesting for those, it's because it's familiar and easy to self insert.
>and you are also absolutely wrong about people not being able to deal with foreign morals
Then you go on to cite an example of us "fucking up our gender roles" as if people at the time didn't think feminism wasn't full retard ( and people nowadays do as well ).
Cultures changing =/= people are fine with different cultures. You'll notice that cultures change slowly over generations and not overnight, and it's usually accompanied by grumbling elder folk saying how much better it was back in their day.
>>46975884
>you're
People don't want to read your shit because you're a shitty writer.
>>46982440
>People with far worse writing skills are more well known than OP, take for instance the piles and piles of fan fiction and shitty japanese light novels.
Fan fiction popularity has nothing to do with any literally merits. And you'd be surprised how good stories and worlds can be found in some Japanese light novels.
Someone who can't appreciate the literally qualities of Tolkien's work is not going to be good writer. Someone who not only fails to do that, but also claims how better he is? That person not only does not know jack shit about literature, but also is a cunt and cunt's are never good storytellers, as they are more interested in wanking themselves off.
Sure, there are bad autors that became highly popular and it was hardly deserved. There is Mayer and the lot, for an instance. But OP does not actually complain about those people. OP complains and insults Tolkien instead.
>>46982440
>Then you go on to cite an example of us "fucking up our gender roles" as if people at the time didn't think feminism wasn't full retard ( and people nowadays do as well ).
Clearly they did not, as it became a run-away success and was institutionalized through out most western natures as a moral and social ideal.
Also, you talk about generations. Except no: sexual liberation took place over less than a decade. Feminism established itself in two. Social shifts that had occurred with the fall of the iron curtain were ten times faster than that. And none of this actually adresses my core argument:
PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY HAPPILY INDULGING CHINESE, JAPANESE, INDIAN BOOKS, SCHLOCK FICTION, SHOCK MOVIES, ANCIENT MYTHS. You are completely wrong, you literally don't know what the fuck are you talking about.
>>46975884
>Tolkien writes
>George RR Martin creates
At least they had the courage to show it, and actually knew how to write.
>handcrafted fantasy
No matter how much you handcraft an imaginary turd, it's still a turd.
>PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY HAPPILY INDULGING CHINESE, JAPANESE, INDIAN BOOKS, SCHLOCK FICTION, SHOCK MOVIES, ANCIENT MYTHS. You are completely wrong, you literally don't know what the fuck are you talking about.
You're right, on the topic of culture.
I was talking about morality, not culture originally. Mental fuckup on my part, of course I'm wrong on that part because culture=/=morality
Feminism is close enough to the morality of Freedom(tm) that it was accepted by Americans, the people of the culture that values Freedom(tm) above most anything else.
Now go find me a popular story that's all about the good things, the comfort and quiet stability of slavery and servitude.
Sexual liberation isn't really that shocking when you take a broad view, and even then there's a lot of people who don't agree with it. How many man are willing to marry a porn star, whore, or a woman whose sexual conquests is numbered in the triple digits?
>>46982287
Haw haw.
But seriously, stealing your ideas would hurt your editor more than it would hurt you.
>>46975884
Here's your reply, Moorcock.
>http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953
>>46975884
Just stop with the weed Kirkbride.
And apologize to that kid you threatened to kill on his sleep.
Godamn faggot.
>>46976712
You are a man with wisdom.
Even a:
>wizards
It's shit
At least gives you some sort of vague idea of what they have a problem with - wizards. And if you really like wizards, you weigh whether that judgement really makes you want to change how you do things.
Any opinion can be useful. Even a horrible, shitty opinion has some nugget of a useful truth.
>>46975884
in b4 JoJo pose
>>46976268
I don't know man, if no one wants that, why is GoT doing so well?
>>46982714
>shits on other authors for not having the exact same standards as he has
>writes essay which he updates every now and then to shit on new authors
>Warhammer and Dungeons & Dragons and steals all his ideas and makes more money of them then he ever would
Kek! He is a one man saltmine.
>>46982887
>why is GoT doing so well?
Sopranos is done and thirty-somethings enjoy basic cable pornography.
>>46976230
>Muh Always Evil Orcs
maybe you should stop playing WoW
>Muh Objective Morality
i kinda learned that nobody really knows how to write "grey morality" because every piece of fiction i've lookes at that tries to be grey or subjective in their morality ends up being more black & white than the very thing they're trying to avoid writing
>Muh Christianity
not everyone wants to argue the existence of god at family dinner kid. maybe you'll understand this when you're older.
>>46975951
You think a setting where the gods are known to exist would have the same pattern of human behavior? That a setting where the magic and supernatual are a certainty would have civilations based around the same things then a setting (earth) where it doesnt?
Go suck a lemon.
>>46982969
Most people on Earth believe that god or gods exist in one way or another.
Tolkien was a long standing Professor of Linguistics one of the best universities in the entire world, at the very top of his field internationally after having served in his nation's military as an officer and completely redefined the way we approached post-Classical, pre-Renaissance European languages. In terms of his accomplishments, Middle Earth and all the materials associated with it was a hobby and a side note.
You're an autist.
>>46982714
>http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953
Bloody hell, Moorcock is insane.
>it contains little wit and much whimsy.
Have we been reading the same books, Mr Gobblemorecock? Or did you just stop at Tom Bombadil, get sick, and run back to writing the wankfest tale of your edgelord redeyed albino demihuman drugaddict warlord with his souleating chaosborn demonsword, osie donut steel? Because I think you've perhaps set the bar for "whimsy" a little low. Bombadil is honestly whimsy - and then we have ghosts stabbing people with cursed blades, getting caught in a snowstorm, an unseen lake-monster attacks and tries to drown people, finding the last words of doomed dwarves, nearly getting trapped underground, Gandalf dies, Boromir dies, hobbits captured, party split, and so on and so on until Denethor's attempted filicide and self-immolation as a result of using the seeing-stone to look at Satan too much, while on the battlefield, Theoden is dying crushed under his own horse.
Moorcock packs an immense amount of wrong into a tiny space, I could WRONG ON THE INTERNET all day at single sentences here.
> a disenchanted and thoroughly discredited section of the repressed English middle-class too afraid, even as it falls, to make any sort of direct complaint ("They kicked us out of Rhodesia, you know")
"Thoroughly discredited"?
Rhodesia was a first world country.
Zimbabwe is practically the epitome of third world tinpot dictatorship hellhole.
> The Lord of the Rings is a pernicious confirmation of the values of a declining nation with a morally bankrupt class whose cowardly self-protection is primarily responsible for the problems England answered with the ruthless logic of Thatcherism.
wat
srsly, wat. what the hell are you dragging Thatcher into this for, you provincial idiot. Can't see outside your own petty political grudges?
>>46982969
For 90% of human existence, humans were completely convinced that the Gods were very real. The most devout people in modern society are the baseline for ancient and medieval faith.
>>46978042
The problem is those two stories you pick out don't really need to describe their setting in any way. Most people know the basics of ancient Greece, and it would've been obvious enough to people of the time the story was originally made.
But if you're making a narrative based around an entirely new setting, you have to explain the setting and its details first. Even with fairly standard D&D settings you need to provide that sort of context, because the audience couldn't be expected to know all that themselves. So a fairly simple story could have a lot of complex background lore for the setting, but you'd throw it all out because the setting seems stupidly complex as a whole, even if whole parts of it never come into play in the story? It'd be like hating TES because of all its background lore, when the basic premises and stories of the games are fairly simple.
>>46983046
Tom Bombadil isn't whimsy at all. He's an Eldritch abomination who could literally destroy everything or save everything, but he doesn't care because he's the spirit of the land and is just enjoying himself.
>>46981150
More or less 10% of people talking shit on Tolkien and agreeing with that retarded OP on a board where people is supposed to be good readers is horrifying.
They don't even understand the concept of epic.
>>46983046
and this:
> If the Shire is a suburban garden, Sauron and his henchmen are that old bourgeois bugaboo, the Mob - mindless football supporters throwing their beer-bottles over the fence
this doesn't even rise to the level of being wrong, this is just retarded. what the fuck is moorcock smoking?
>>46977639
If you actually read Jack Vance, you'll find out his magic is interesting, mysterious and full of flavor.
>>46983090
Marxist theory and Labour party ideology.
>>46983083
And he's still dancing through the countryside picking flowers and singing nursery rhymes and holding tea parties. He's a whimsy eldritch abomination.
>>46983090
>>46983046
Yeah, Moorcock has fucking stupid politics. I love his writing, but fuck me if he isn't a complete retard when it comes to politics and history. It's the same old story; everything British and deemed 'Imperialist' is bad, everything else is good, especially if there's a black or a brown person doing it.
>>46976375
>boring Tolkien and Martin
this is a first. most people who i come across hate either one or the other.
>>46983083
No, Tom is a cameo from stories he used to tell his children. Tom is about as much of an eldritch horror as silver age Superman is.
>>46975884
I am also a pretentious writer who wants to write the next big fantasy trilogy.
But there is a fine line between being a modernist with an insaitable hateboner for the classics and calling it 'distilled.'
The guy was a literary genius who brought all this hidden lore to the mainstream.
You are everything I hate about modern literary culture, I bet you even dismiss genre fiction as a legitimate artform because it's not 'challenging' enough for your high tastes
Fuck off good sir, report back to me when you actually publish your valuable take on 'mature' fantasy, without a japanese harem-manga influnce this time.
Holy fuck.
>>46981252
But what's the point of a setting where everything's great and there's nothing really to aspire to?
>>46983140
I think that's just part of being British. The UK is the craziest country in Europe.
>>46983290
You have an entire country feeling colonial guilt even a half-century later. Sure, they weren't Leopold II, but it colors everything.
>>46975884
Dominions?
>>46975884
*shakes magic 8-ball*
>All signs point to "kill yourself".
>>46983475
I think they are also dealing with that thing they did when they won worldwar 2 and they havn't done anything impressive since then.
>>46983163
Silver age Superman didn't live in an enchanted land between the Forrest of Horrors and the Barrows of the restless dead. Nor was he married to a siren or confined by magic marker stones put up by an ancient race.
>>46975884
>the popular stories are boring and uninspired
>my stories are beautiful works of epic literature
>>46983948
During the silver age all of that bullshit might have happened.
>>46984011
And Silver Age Superman is strongly up there with other bullshit you don't want to mess around with and whom you are relying solely on their good graces to not be splattered across the landscape, if lucky.
>>46983475
No, you have a dedicated roughly 10% of a country who are trying to create an internationalist socialist utopia and using colonial guilt as a tool.
>>46984096
You're thinking of Stardust.
Silver Age Superman is just gonna be a bit of a dick to you at worst.
>>46984096
Thank God he is not Stardust.
>>46984110
Only because he's a good guy. If he wasn't a good guy...
>>46979799
>surprised at depth of lotr
If you go in with low enough expectations.
>>46983084
>where people is supposed to be good readers
Yeah, that about sums up your confusion.
You have the percentage of good readers backwards.
>>46985258
Yeah, but the fact of the matter is that he is a good guy, so saying "Man, if you mess with Silver Age superman, you're gonna end up a red smear" is kind of dumb.
>>46978367
Dude, the nazgul were so player characters. How have I never thought of this before? DM of the Rings should have been from their point of view.
>>46976698
congratulations lad, you've invented pic related.
>>46976230
>Muh Always Evil Orcs
this
I just want a green waifu
>>46986395
>>46986449
>>46976230
This is called Flinstoning, aka Hindsight is 20/20 and people in the past are poopooheads for not seeing it. Tolkien needed MONSTERS for his stories so he threw in standard monsters and named them after an old english word that meant the same thing. That word was orc and sometimes he called them goblins. He had no idea people were going to take his standard monsters, make them green, give them an organic origin, turn them into a full fledged race, beef them up into mini hulks, and do the whole epic noble tribesmen subversion.
Also fuck your now overplayed green noble barbarians.
>>46986744
This.
Also, Tolkien dwarves were never described as green.
>>46986316
Like this?
>be me, experienced adventurer in low-magic setting
>loot is rare, less piles of +1, instead the occasional crown of command or other cool shit
>some outsider offers me neat bargain: enter his service, accept ring of power, now I get raised at his base if I die, as long as I remain loyal and carry out his quests
>a while later, get quest for mcguffin
>rumor about it is vague as usual "Look for Baggins in the land of Shire, or maybe vice versa"
>wander across countries, roll on random encounter table, gank a bunch of trolls and whatnot
>eventually find Shire
>it's a land of beardless dwarves who are totally not gnomes or anything
>beardless dwarves not happy about my presence, whatever
>increasing hostility as I get closer to what is probably target
>ask nearest midget "where's the Baggins?"
>xenophobic midget tells me to bugger off at length
>look, just because I'm a weird foreigner who's two and a half feet taller is no reason to be racist
>midget goes on The List
>hear that Baggins has left
>fucking fetch quest with moving objective
>learn that rude midget was Baggins' old gardener
>chase Baggins
>some midget blows the alarm horn and summons militia
>chase Baggins some more
>catch up to him at inn
>"nope, he snuck out during the night"
>stab his bed in frustration
>nearly catch him, some wildman sets me the fuck on fire
>wildman goes on The List
>retreat, heal, chase Baggins some more
>some fey floods the river and drowns me
>fey goes on The List
>respawn
>thanks, outsider
>learn that during respawn, Baggins teamed up with fey, wildman, and some pyromancer wizard
>DM has outsider give me dragon mount for trying again
>chase Baggins
>bullshit archer with bullshit bow critically hits and oneshots my dragon
>archer goes on The List
>>46976698
It's pretty shit desu.
>>46986874
>say it's shit without explaining why
You're just as bad as OP
>>46986823
That is gold
>>46985972
No, but the only thing holding Superman back is himself. That's the point I was making.
>>46987021
He's bad, but not as bad as OP.
>>46986793
>dwarves
Wut??
Because setting =/= story. campaign =/= book.
also:
>>46975884
>you're lovely
>>46987612
Pretty sure anon means orcs. But the dwarves weren't described as green either.
>>46975884
>245 replies
/tg/ was always the easiest board to troll
>>46987705
>you're lovely
Haven't we beaten this point into the ground by now?
>>46975884
Paolini pls.
>>46985353
What were your expectations and what did you get?
>>46978004
>Tolkien's elves being human-sized friendlies is a massive change from the European folk tales and mythologies of tiny sociopaths kidnapping your children for the lulz
Tolkien's elves are based off of Scandinavian Alfar, not Gaelic Fae.
>Tolkien's dwarves being half Jews is, again, a massive change from the European folk tales where "dark elves" = "dwarves"
>In Germanic mythology, a dwarf is a being that dwells in mountains and in the earth, and is variously associated with wisdom, smithing, mining, and crafting. Dwarfs are often also described as short and ugly, although some scholars have questioned whether this is a later development stemming from comical portrayals of the beings.
>>46988294
If he's like most people, he went in expecting something of literary excellency, and got severe disappointment.
Nothing wrong with that, though. Lotr suffers from the same reputation boost that anything someone saw, did, or listened too during their emotionally formative years would give.
