>mfw I see how far down the Twitch directory I have to scroll to find MTG
There are 2x as many people viewing MTG clone Hex:Shards of Fate streams as there are viewing Magic streams right now.
There are 1000x as many people viewing Hearthstone streams as there are viewing Magic streams right now.
Is WotC the Kodak of the card gaming world?
Magic is shit now.
Movie at 11.
>>46937807
they are too autistic to leave the house and play the game, so instead the shut ins just watch others play online
Fortunately for Wizards, Magic doesn't make money off of Twitch streams. Every block since Return to Ravnica has seen record-breaking sales that were better than the set before it. A lot of people are getting into Magic these days
>>46937923
>>46937944
these
>Wizards doesn't see Hearthstone as a threat because it appeals chiefly to a casual audience
>99.99% of their profit comes from casuals buying sealed product
I love Magic but man these guys are blind
A clue to this would be in what board you posted it in, Traditional Games, Magic is first and foremost a tabletop game you play at a store or with friends. Coupled with the fact that MtG is a lot more involving than Hearthstone and the online version is not amazing, it obviously won't appeal to casuals.
This doesn't change the fact that it's wildly successful currently, and you need to remember, MtGO is a supplement to paper magic, not the other way around.
>>46938188
To elaborate on something, when I say casual, I mean the average casual gamer who watches streams on Twitch, primarily because of 'personalities' like Kripparian who has a large following and is atleast a part of why Hearthstone was even successful on the scale it was. Magic doesn't have these for the most part, and the few it does(LSV) are certainly not pre-established streamers.
>>46938177
casuals buying mtg products will have cards they can physically own
hearthcucks will literally never own their decks
>>46937807
MTGO is a shit client and doesn't appeal to casuals.
Wizards could have tripled their profit if they just offered a real online alternative (like Hearthstone) and put codes in real booster packs that gives you the same booster pack in the online version as well. Or coins or credits or whatever. Wizards is years behind when it comes to online play.
I bought a case of Khans of Tarkir. Was planning of selling it in 10 years for about $1999, but it feels like magic will be dead by then. Should I sell it now or open it in hope of getting some foil expeditions?
>>46938291
That would be nice.
>>46938296
I also bought a case of Theros, but I think I'm going to hold it for a birthday draft at my sons twentyfirst birthday, since theros has one of the best limited metas ever.
>>46938296
Why on earth would you think it's going to be dead by then? The game is already over 20 years old, and like an anon already pointed out, it's only getting more and more popular.
If you're that worried, just sell it the first set that doesn't beat a record.
>>46938177
>bulkers and drafters are casuals
Consider me trolled.
>>46938328
the fact that it's so old and set in it's ways makes it all the more likely to die
>>46938404
See, you'd be right in most circumstances, but in this day, where people complain about all these things, it's still getting more and more popular. So, clearly something isn't as important as people are pretending.
>>46938330
Are drafters not casual?
I only draft and i'm casual as fuck I would have thought.
>>46938328
So you think I did good businuess?
How many cases are you hoarding?
>>46938291
Pokemon does it right
>>46937807
>caring about Twitch streams
>>46938177
I wish playing magic online was half as convenient as hearthstone.
I don't like hearthstone but the client is pretty easy to use and looks like a piece of software from this decade.
>>46938177
a casual in magic is a psychopath obsessive in any other ccg/duel game. Ive never seen my friends who play heartstone drop 100 dollars in a day while ive seen other buying boxes at my lgs that are obviously more than 100 dollars.
>>46938291
They will start giving you drops for packs, they just need to decide what online client will be superior, duels or mtgo
>>46938296
>thinking Kahn will be worth more than $300 in a decade
Even assuming you're right, wow, 2K in only TEN FUCKING YEARS. you must be an investment banker
>>46938296
>keeping a booster box as investment
This reminds me of that mouthbreather YouTube channel where he open boxes with a surgical glove and opens booster packs like it's something delicate.
>>46938887
this.
I never understood people who make investment purchases like that. The returns are TERRIBLE.
>>46938319
>Theros had one of the best limited metas of all time
> Theros aka Eggs in Basket: the format
> Also has a case of Khans - one of the three greatest limited formats of the modern era
> wants to sell it
Niggers what?
>>46940287
Is that the one who literally came in his pants when he opened power?
>>46940780
that famous video with Black Lotus card
>>46937807
>basing the state of the game on how many people watch it on Twitch
By that logic it's hard to say League of Legends is a shit game with horrid developers backing it with all the people watching it normallythat said, Magic is only shit right now because Wizards is too afraid to go all out. BFZ, OGW, and SOI all were lacking mechanically. BFZ only brought back Rally and created Ingest, which would've been alright if it was like Annihilator and not constrained specifically to creatures. OGW only had the colorless errata and created things that used took colorless specifically, but otherwise was lacking mechanically. SOI rought back Madness, which wasn't even an Innistrad original, and double-faced cards only because if they left that out people would shit themselves. All it gave us that was new however was Delirium, which is more or less a more specific Spell Mastery. One Curse made it out of the woodwork like that one white Eldrazi from OGW. Aside from all that, however, there wasn't much it had to offer. All that variance in mechanics and all that lack of mechanics just makes deck-building in Standard - Wizard's premier format - very boring and lackluster. They're too afraid of making another Birthing Pod, when in reality they should only fear making THE Birthing Pod, if that makes sense.
>>46938296
>Should I sell it now or open it in hope of getting some foil expeditions?
>Khans of Tarkir
Anon, I have some bad news. Expeditions were a Battle for Zendikar and Oath of the Gatewatch thing.
>>46941062
When will we see ***** or goblin welder back?
>>46938291
>codes in real booster packs that gives you the same booster pack in the online version as well
Not a bad idea actually.
>>46937807
It is and it's their own God damn fault.
Hearthstone is convenient because all your cards are right on your phone. You can sign in and start playing.
Of course we all know technology is crap and last thing I want is my account getting hacked or something and lose all my cards so maybe paper cards and go to a shop too...
Oh wait. Magic is a fucking expensive game unlike say Pokémon.
But hey, at least the people are friendly and...
Oh wait, that's pokemon too. Magic players are elitist assholes.
Well, Magic's one virtue is that amongst trading card games it's the only one that stays relatively balanced and only has minimal power-creep and rarity isn't a big issue...
OH WAIT, I'M STILL TALKING ABOUT THE POKEMON CARD GAME.
>>46941062
>All it gave us that was new however was Delirium, which is more or less a more specific Spell Mastery.
I prefer to think of it as "the bad Threshold".
>>46937807
>post at 4:22 AM EDT
It's the middle of the night in the US, Mid-morning in europe, and early afternoon in Japan. Why the fuck would you expect magic streams at that hour?
>>46947759
The hour doesn't make a difference as long as you take stats for other games at the same hour too.
>>46938291
I wish mtg had a pokemon like online game.
>>46944761
>Well, Magic's one virtue is that amongst trading card games it's the only one that stays relatively balanced and only has minimal power-creep and rarity isn't a big issue...
>OH WAIT, I'M STILL TALKING ABOUT THE POKEMON CARD GAME.
>shaymin-ex exists.
>>46938234
And that's exactly why Hearthstone alone is crushing Wizards in terms of profitability. To sell a Magic pack, one has to be physically produced, whereas a Hearthstone pack is just a number generated by an existing algorithm. This is why physical goods can't even touch electronic "goods" when it comes to profit. Like nigger not even close.
>>46941062
Reminder that BFZ brought back Rebound. You didn't forget already did you Anon?
>>46947796
It does make a difference, since Paper Magic pulls in way bigger numbers than MTGO.
>>46938509
It depends, drafting is part of the pro tour, so it can be done at high level. Personally, I just do it because I like opening boosters, Im fairly decent at it and standard is expensive as fuck. I could buy one baby Jace or do 8 drafts.
>>46949445
Paper magic doesn't deny face to face interaction and it doesn't rely on a outdated piece of barely usable software, hearthstone wouldn't have any players if the client this bad.
>>46949394
>tfw people are so gullible and they fail to see that electronic goods are worth 1/3 of normal goods (due to the lack of physical factor).
>steam games are being sold for 40€
>people are ok with it
>>46949512
>if the client this bad.
Was this bad. I need to proof read my posts before I submit.
>>46949630
>it's a collection of numbers and code so it's worth less than paper squares with drawings on them
>>46949721
Actually yes. Just consider the resources used to make both. Not to mention people living from the whole logistic chain of physical goods.
>>46950240
>goods have no value beyond the cost of their components
not even arguing that Magic cards are cheaper, you're just retarded
>>46949512
>outdated piece of barely usable software
can we please put an end to this meme?
the MtGO client is not barely usable, it's flat out unusable
>>46950353
He didn't say that at all, just that producing and shipping physical goods costs much more than coding another card. You're the retard here.
>>46950595
what does cost have to do with anything?
>>46950682
Why are you asking me? I'm not the one arguing about that, I'm just calling you out on your inability to read.
>>46950759
i'm not even that guy but it's you who can't read
just because a physical Magic card costs more to manufacture doesn't mean it's more valuable
it's not that difficult to understand
>>46950850
Except for when you compare the prices of actual magic cards to MTGO cards, the actual ones are almost always more expensive then the virtual ones.
>>46937807
This is because nobody cares about some random person playing the buggy mess known as MTGO, or the shitty Origins game.
Watch during a PT or a SCG Open and it will be on the front page.
>>46951093
because MTGO is a mess and nobody cares
>>46951376
yes because they pay to get there
the MTG Pro Tour Top 8 still gets less views than a Hearthstone streamer gets on an average weekday evening, by a longshot
>>46944761
A tier pokemon deck is still 200 to 500 bucks
>>46949440
That was in Dragons of Tarkir, not BFZ.
>>46937807
hey don't talk poop of Hex you meanie.
>>46944761
>minimal power creep
A friend of mine was a fairly regular player when we were kids and used to go to tournaments at our LGS where he would routinely take first place with his haymaker deck. A few years ago another friend of ours and I bought starter decks because we wanted to fuck around and Haymaker guy thought it would be cool to "show us how it's done" by breaking out his tier 1 deck from 15 years ago.
He didn't win a single game we played, the pre-constructed decks were that much stronger. It was a total blowout every single time. So you're a liar.
>>46951620
mtgpt top8 doesn't act like cunts, either. kids love garbage like trick2g or (i cant even name an hs streamer) because they pander to their audience.
>>46953386
how many Hearthstone streamers have literally killed a guy?
>>46951620
so?
look at the top 10 most subscribed twitch or youtube chanels, look at the content they make.
the main audience is 12 year olds with ADD
fucking kill me I dont want to live in this world anymore.
it's designed for fucknuckles, and now we can't have nice things.
>>46953242
15 years is a long fucking time, though. And there are strategies that were viable then that just don't exist now - like relatively fast combo kills. Your standard deck does jack shit to turn one Necro, turn two you're dead. It can beat some midrange deck from back then because the threats are so much better now.
>>46954658
He was talking about the Pokemon TCG, which someone claimed hasn't been power creeping.
>>46949440
>Reminder that BFZ brought back Rebound
That was DTK, and none of the cards are even remotely memorable. I only know that Narset gives Rebound as well as Taigam's strike. Can you call that interesting?
>>46954772
>>46954658
And that's what I get for not reading the thread properly.
>>46953242
Early pokemon was close to a completely different game. The pokemon themselves were much weaker, but the trainer suites were overwhelmingly powerful. Also, the new rule changes basically meant all of the old decks don't work anymore.
Old pokemon was a really strange and interesting game. It never really got solved, and a lot of really weird things happened as a result. Yea, everybody knew the basic competitive archetypes. Yea, scy/buzz/chan was the best haymaker package. It was still more interesting than the EX spam that's going on now.
>>46954658
>>46954772
I was very confused
I was sure pokemon couldn't have anything called "necro" in it.
>>46954853
I remember back in the day collecting that shit at school
nobody ever had any idea how to play the game, I'm pretty sure our school developed our own rules and played the game in a fucking outrageous manner.
throwing cards at other cards was a key mechanic.
I think we used a number on the cards to determine how many attempts you would have at throwing the cards at the opponents pokemon, and depending on how many times you hit it was how effective the attack was
you dont even want to know how we played DBZ TCG
that got violent.
>>46949504
>I could buy one baby Jace or do 8 drafts.
fucken ae man that's it
>>46954938
In pokemon, every deck was "necro." It was possible to see half of your deck in the discard pile by turn 6, depending on how the game was going.
The ironic thing is that pokemon right now is much faster than it used to be. Early pokemon had ridiculous resource management, but you ultimately still had to grind your opponent out to finish the game. Modern pokemon decks only need 2-4 cards to start sweeping, rather than drawing twenty cards and still not presenting very much damage.
Wizards is really dropping the ball on this one
>develop a shiny new MTGO client with bells and whistles
>get rid of the $10 sign up fee
>hold more Phantom events with packs as prizes so poor people and casuals can still play and spend millions of hours grinding to get gud cards
>put a timer on a player's priority to speed up the game and make it more interesting for spectators
>????
>profit
>>46959853
This a hundred times
>>46954989
I used to play pokemon tcg with correct rules as kid. There wasn't many that knew how to play it, but we few who knew didn't care as long as we could 'cheat' good cards for ourselves. Holy shit it was a good game back then.
Although it has to be said that as an european kid the english wasn't exactly the best, so we probably made ridiculous misunderstandings with the abilities.
>>46959853
/tg/: where you can explain why "make everything free" doesn't make sense to adults.
Also, MTG isn't a spectator sport. That's fine.
>>46937807
>people are watching video games on a video game streaming site instead of tabletop games
>magic is dead
no.
Although, I think magic will be kill in the next 10 years. I have already stopped playing 2p magic in favor of Ashes, but still play EDH.
>>46940287
perfect 10 alpha lotus is easily worth 50k usd, you better fucking use silk gloves when cracking packs of abu
>>46961089
lol it's a slip of cardboard.
>>46961828
Would you mind sending me a few of these, senpai? Any that are lying around will do. What do you mean "no?" It's just a piece of paper, lol.
I've been out of magic for a while. What's a good standard deck, price is not an issue
I just found out that core sets will no longer be made, what about vintage cards like Wrath of God? They going to reprint those sort of cards in the normal sets or are they going to wait until they have exhausted the English thesaurus for every possible example of genocide?
>>46962855
Wouldnt it be faster and more reliable to google, Pro Tour Shadows over Innistrad top 8". At least you will get tired and tested decks rather than some neckbeards goblin deck that only beats 13 year olds with lunch money decks.
If price is no option as you say.
>>46937807
>Hex:Shards of Fate
>hearthstone
Niether of those games rots yours eyes out of their sockets. Magic is more fun to play in person because the cards are real and the software never advanced from Windows 3.1. Wizards and Puters just never mixed for some reason.
>>46937807
What is the appeal of Twitch?
I can kinda understand watching a pro to get better at something, but that doesn't seem to be what it's about.
Fuck...have I become the guy who just comes into these threads to point out that /tg/ doesn't know shit about MtG?
Because, seriously, /tg/ doesn't know shit about MtG.
>>46966418
Is Magic the Gathering losing vast numbers of current and potential players to it's rivals?
Yes. So shut the fuck up
>>46963483
It's social media at this point. Which also means that the game itself becomes secondary to that
MtG works like shit as a computer game.
What they should have done is develop a new game specifically for online.
>>46966794
The only reason it works like shit is because of all the unnecessary phases and passing back and forth of priority. A game of Magic is way slower than it needs to be
Priority should be timed, and if you don't do what you needed to in the time allotted then tough shit
>>46938177
>99.99% of their profit comes from casuals buying sealed product
Because a pre-release kit or a box doesn't cost 1500€ to be remotely competitive.
>>46967063
>You shouldn't have time to make decisions
Yeah that's probably the most retarded suggestion I've ever heard for MODO.
They need to put something out with a modern client and UI.
I'd pay a subscription fee if I could have access to all cards.
>>46938296
how much for a box?
>>46967600
This, I'd be fine with the current way MTGO works, but it's expensive as fuck and has an UI straight out of windows 98 solitaire, it's fucking unacceptable for the costs.
>>46967623
They could pitch it as a way to practice for paper tournaments and let you earn coupons for sealed product. Cheap monthly fee and cosmetic (special card backings, special backgrounds, avatars) microtransactions to drive down the cost of subscription.
YgoPro is better than MTGO and it's fan made.
>>46967434
Only retards need lots of time. A few seconds is enough. Nobody wants to watch some fucktard humming and hawing for 2 minutes while he chooses blockers
>>46968893
>Only retards need lots of time.
You can spend any amount of time considering your line of play if you want to be absolutely sure that it's the right one. Magic is a game of statistics, if you know your opponent's list you can calculate the odds of them having specific cards or combinations of cards available at any part of the game This information can help you make decisions, but crunching the numbers takes time. Time is a resource, when you are playing to win there is no reason to use any less time than the amount you have been given. Priority in mtgo is fine.
![skeleton[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oOnI3qE.jpg "skeleton[1].jpg")
>>46968893
>people who don't think ahead and need to think everything through every turn
>>46969095
do it quicker faggit
if people can play an entire game of chess in 1 minute then you goobers can handle a few seconds for each priority
>>46966694
is it though?
>>46938291
This would be very nice, and they sort of tried with the F2P Duels of the Planswalkers game.
Unfortunately, the studio they got for it Stainless Steel games is kind of trash and the final product ended up being shitty and clunky. If they had actually put some money in it, it might have done well.
>>46969138
No, fuck you, I'm not making any compromises when I play to win. That's fine though, if you think no one should need time to make decisions you're never going to be my opponent in a situation where I'm playing to win.
>>46944761
Hahahaha
haha
ha
no
Magic has plenty of friendly people, as long as you don't jump into a draft or something without having the slightest idea of how to actually play. Sure, we have our neckbeard fucksticks too, but every game does.
Secondly, Pokemon is pretty close to MtG, I don't know what the fuck you're smoking. Maybe bulk prices are suitably different but even then you're dropping big money. I will say that Modern is fuckspensive, though.
Also, relatively balanced? Get out. Get that shit out of here right now. Have you even played online? EX cards ruin the game. No, correction- legendary EX cards RUIN Pokemon. You either have them or you lose. I remember trying to be even slightly competitive online and my only solution was to run a somewhat janky Nuclear Discharge deck (Galvantula doing upwards of ~200 damage, Elektross getting energy back.)
I've played MtG, I've played FoW, and I've played Pokemon. They all have their issues. They're all generally somewhat expensive (FoW feels the least bad but the packs are also smaller so...), they all have Those Guys, and they're all subject to power creep.
Oh, and if you mean "expensive" in terms of buying singles, FoW is by far the cheapest I've ever seen. Except Cheshire Cat. That fucking cat runs you thirty bucks, leagues above any other card. Even the meta-shaping rulers.
>>46938203
magic has been in paper form since 1993. It has since been relegated as a 'nerdy' hobby. People who are interested in games nowadays need flashy graphics and markiplier-like personalities to be attracted to a game; that's what hearthstone attracts. These same people don't pay attention to magic because it's boring to watch online.
>>46968893
>>46969138
Found the infect player.
>>46969330
>you're never going to be my opponent in a situation where I'm playing to win.
Yeah, because I'm just going to Alt+Tab out and wait for you to concede.
Play Netrunner or Ashes if you want to see an example of what magic should have become.
The only reason people still play mtg is because of the sunk cost.
>>46969666
>The only reason people still play mtg is because of the sunk cost.
If that were true then the Eternal formats would be a lot more popular than they are, and Limited wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is. This would also suggest that the game is so bad it would immediately turn away new players when in fact number of players has been going up and up with the release of every set. I definitely know the playerbase something like doubled when Theros came out, and there was definitely another big expansion with Origins, for some reason.
Netrunner is a lot easier to get into and a lot cheaper, but it's just nowhere near as popular as Magic either. The games don't even seem to compete with each other all that much, I know of plenty of people who play both.
>>46954853
>>46954989
>>46944761This is why I have a Pokémon TCG Cube for drafting. Included are cards from Base up until Team Rocket plus some promo cards and also Japanese cards never printed in the West.It's a blast to play.
I've made the switch from playing Magic exclusively to playing 90% Hearthstone, not because Hearthstone is a better game (which it's not), or a better viewing experience (which it is), or any of that, but because it's 2016 and I shouldn't have to drive to the LGS or invite friends over to get my gaming fix
Just because Magic is a better game doesn't mean it will survive
>>46969965
How do you even Draft in pokemon? wouldnt it become just "Basic pokemons slapping each other"? also there are tons of really specific trainers.
