/tg/, are there any alignments that you would/have restricted from your gaming group if you could? (or at least scrutinized the player taking aforementioned alignment) If so, why?
I myself have decided that Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil are probably going to be restricted from my players, as I find the former is often taking by That Guy to be lolrandum and generally disruptive. The latter because anything less than Morder Orcs or Crossed, I feel is doing the alignment a disservice. (Also because being chaos all the time is tiring and rough, and it doesn't lend itself well to long-term plot development.)
Have any of you done similar? Like restrict Lawful Good, or True Neutral?
inb4 'Crossed is Chaotic Stupid'
inb4 'lol edgy pic'
>>46862743
>inb4 'Crossed is Chaotic Stupid'
>inb4 'lol edgy pic'
Oh, so you're aware how retarded Crossed is. Great, that'll save us a lot of needless arguing.
>already so buttmad in OP he has to respond to it against phantom trolls
try again later, anon
>>46862768
>pointing out the obvious
Well, duh
>>46862798
no buttmad, just aware of how people feel about that...very interesting...comic...
Nada? Okay then.
Sorry OP, /tg/ gets really triggered about Crossed.
>>46862743
I usually find that chaotic stupid tendencies can be avoided so long as players are forced to list cooperative traits and reasons why they would work together.
When robbed of the "but it's what my character would do!" excuse, they usually act like a normal person with a chaotic and/or evil slant.
>>46862743
No.
I have one simple rule: you make the character's personality first, and THEN you figure out what alignment he/she is.
It works wonders.
>>46863471
What's the story there?
>>46863471
Ah. That's a shame.
>>46863508
I don't know, anon. I mean, I played a CE person character once (Barbarian), but I can't help but think that I played them wrong, as while they were greedy, selfish, bloodthirsty and temperamental, they didn't..."synch up" with what is CE in my mind. (At least now that I'm older)
>>46863560
Seconded
>>46863508
That's a good idea
>>46862743
I have not GM'd any systems do far that fall into the traditional alignment system. However, if I did, I don't hink that I would restrict any alignments, assuming I was playing with my normal group. Chaotic individuals can still have a common interest and work together, unless I am badly misunderstanding the alignment.
>>46863560
this is >>46863497
>>46863560
Virus that makes people turn into sadistic edgelords. In theory it could be interesting as a modernized approach to a zombie apocalypse, in practice it reads like the fantasies of a mentally imbalanced teenager
>>46863597
I had the first 3 trade paperbacks.
Ennis really fucked up by allowing that complete edgelord faggot David Lapham take over, as Ennis tries to use Crossed to explore an idea or a concept (such as Altruism vs Pragmatism in a survival situation), whereas Lapham uses it for his own gore-drenched jackoff material
>>46863560
Basically think zombie virus apocalypse only people and animals don't turn into zombies, they turn into super edgy violent things that just do random violent sexual shit. The people at least are also designated by having the disease make a rash/boil/whatever cross on their face.
The series has like people raping dolphins and slaping other people to death with horse cock while tarping bridges/structures with from freshly flayed people. It's stupidly violent to disgusting levels for no reason to be stupidly violent.
>>46863660
>It's stupidly violent to disgusting levels for no reason to be stupidly violent.
Only when Lapham does it. Which is why I sold my three trade paperbacks. Cuz he fucked the whole series up.
>>46863574
The problem is you try to think alignment as a replacement for personality, when it's really a shorthand for it. I mean two characters can have totally different personalities while both being CE. Same with LG or any other alignment. Each alignment is a collection of nearly infinite personalities, otherwise you end with a world where only nine types of personalities exist which is unrealistic, silly and worst of all, boring.
>>46863560
>>46863574
Virus spreads that completely removes all inhibitions and sends people into a frenzy.
Initially made as an immature jab at people that say they could survive a zombie apocalypse, it nonetheless has a surprisingly solid and sober feel, which made the bursts of extreme violence and tragedy all the more impactful.
Sadly, it devolved into goreporn which completely removed any edge it actually had.
For example, the first issue has it's first shocking moment where two survivors get gutted and raped due to one of them being a fucking idiot, and it was a stark contrast to the odd zombie kill we'd seen before.
Later on, we see children getting fed into wood chippers as a matter of course.
>>46863560
/tg/ has gotten easier to troll?
More like a crew of people rolled in, thought they could clean out the place, and now have found their crusade running long overtime. Can't clear out cryptanalysis fast enough, and we old grognards are having too much fun to quit.
No specific group, just started 3 years ago when the place was being prettied up for market, only to spill out of Moot's pockets like spaghetti. Was a siren call to lots of folks from all over the net to come and cut a slice off the old king, but it hasn't changed anything really.
Just post a picture of female armor, or talk about Drow, sit back, and watch people, for free, fight for your pleasure.
>>46862743
Chaotic Evil, True Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral.
CE for the pants on head retarded behavior it induces. People can't play it to save their lives I swear. It takes a special talent to make a truly good CE character.
TN because I got very quickly fedup with that flip flopping. Help one side then cut them to ribbons everyones dead balance preserved yaaaay. No really that was his logic if everyone was dead it was all good and balanced.
CN because they just use it as a blanket excuse to justify EVERY RETARDED ACTION POSSIBLE and I take it as a red flag when someone brings that to the table. I know guys who could do a great CN character but still ban it.
I'm also a bit leery on Lawful Good because of it can cause issues with the damn paladin starting shit, again, because the rogue did his job.
It's god damn survival instinct at this point, you can tell alot of whats coming at you from the alignments the players pick.
>>46863695
I suppose, since Lawful Good doesn't always mean Lawful Nice.
I'm still not 100% sold, but since people do use alignments as replacement for personality as you said, would it be improper to scrutinize those who take those 2 alignments I've restricted?
>>46862743
If everyone properly understands alignments then there's no reason to ban any.
That said, if the party agrees to play a certain kind of campaign, they should avoid having wildly different alignments.
>>46862743
Man, if you actually think Crossed is an example of Chaotic Evil done right, you're a dumbass. It's cool that you enjoy it, but it is far from an example of being well done.
I wouldn't ban any alignments at all. All of them can be played well and make for an interesting game. Even Chaotic Stupid, if you're running a comedy.
>>46863762
What exactly mean by scrutinize? Because I think a DM should look into each character's motivations, personality and concept before the game begins regardless of alignments. And that level of scrutiny usually turns up any lolrandumb or Chaotic Edgy characters regardless of what's written on the sheet.
>>46863835
>Man, if you actually think Crossed is an example of Chaotic Evil done right, you're a dumbass
Sorry you think my ass is dumb. (lol jk anon)
>It's cool that you enjoy it, but it is far from an example of being well done.
I used to enjoy it when I was younger. As for being well done, well, I think it's a good (if very hyperbolic) example- no respect for the laws of man or god, urge fulfillment regardless of who is hurt etc
>Even Chaotic Stupid, if you're running a comedy.
I can't help but think of Steve Buscemi's character from ConAir for some reason. Specifically that line about how he wore some lady's head as a hat for a few hours.
>>46863898
>Because I think a DM should look into each character's motivations, personality and concept before the game begins regardless of alignments
Well, basically that, except I always have a feeling of how things will run with all the other alignments- some arguments in character, but then morality, pragmatism or greed win out. But for those 2 alignments, I find there is trouble. That's why I made the thread, as I was wondering (hoping) that other alignments can be problematic, or if I was justified in my stance on restricting.
>>46862743
There is nothing I'd want to take off the table for all campaigns, but I'm pretty willing to set down pretty rigorous restrictions for any given campaign.
"Make characters of any Lawful alignment, loyal the Yellow Emperor"
"Make characters of any non-evil alignment who are interested in exploring the Fargath Wastes."
"Make characters of any non-good, non-lawful alignment who are part of Warlord Garuk's army."
I would restrict chaotic anything but it won't fix my idiot players' behaviour.
>>46863990
Well, every character personality description should have a part on why the character works with the others (unless the whole point of the campaign is to fuck over each other), so I don't feel that any alignments are distruptive. Certain personalities or character traits can be, but you should always be checking for incompatible behaviors specifically and not just outright ban alignments. The latter feels lazy and leaves a bad taste in the players mouth, even if they didn't want to play that alignment. Saying 'dude, this character's a dick. Go make someone that can work in a fucking party.' sounds a lot more reasonable and if the player gets annoyed with that, you probably didn't want the player in your group anyway.
>>46862743
i don't really restrict alignments but given that my experience with anyone who plays CN is "i want to play an evil character but i'm to much of a pussy to deal with any consequences of my actions and i think be" i usually ask anybody who wants to be CN if they really want to be CN first
>>46864245
You.
I like you. You gave me a good answer.
I avoided Crossed for a long time but the 100 series was really neat. It's a century after the apocalypse and follows a group of archeologists trying to figure out what the world was like prefall. Humans vastly outnumber the infected because disease/cold weather/injury/inbreeding, people live in fortified citystates and speak in weird lingos you have to piece together yourself
Damn crossed seems really disgusting,who the fuck can stomach this shit(let alone CREATE it).
But to answer OPs question,i'm personally against restrictions of any kind,any alignment can be done right and hell,the alignment system is pretty limiting in itself.
>>46865337
+100 is great. I love how "fuck" became a polite word thanks to a generation hearing all their elders say it constantly.
>>46862743
Depends on the context of the campaign
>You will all be mercenaries so good aligned characters better have a damn good reason for murdering people for money
Or something like that.
Not really, but I expect the players to explain the reason why the character's moral/ethics etc. would be represented as such, and why'd they tag along with others.
>>46865561
>Damn crossed seems really disgusting,who the fuck can stomach this shit(let alone CREATE it).
A demented Irish comicbook writer who wanted to take shot at zombie-apocalypse nerds?
Though, to be fair, it only got really disgusting when he decided to let others have a go with the series. Then gross cocksuckers like Lapham came out of the woodwork and made it into goreporn spankfodder
>>46867191
Heh,can't say I'm not familiar with Garth Ennis,all I'm saying is,it requires immense fortitude to put something as grotesque as this on paper.
Conceptually the setting is pretty interesting,too bad it becomes goreporn
>>46867624
>Conceptually the setting is pretty interesting,too bad it becomes goreporn
That's why I dropped it.
I mean, I still maintain my stance that Crossed are a good, but hyperbolic example of CE.
Some disagree with me. And that's fair. I mean, the Orcs and Uruk-hai are also good examples of CE, right?
>>46862743
I feel that our DM is about to restrict Chaotic Good and Lawful Evil, because me and my friend have been playing those two and we're having too much fun with it according to him.
>>46867884
That's fucking stupid. "Too much fun"? Wtf?
>>46863597
>>46863660
>>46863708
>Virus
It's not viral, it's memetic.
They showed pretty early that you can become crossed even if you haven't been in contact with the crossed.
Just hearing them talk can cause you to become crossed if it affects you psychologically.
They even showed that the crossed ones have access to knowledge they shouldn't have, like personal info about people they've never met.
It's more like a curse than a virus.
That said, the comic is pretty dumb overall because there's only so much you can do with the concept before it outstays it's welcome.
>>46868109
>guy who hasn't read a single Crossed comic
>>46862743
>any alignments that you would/have restricted from your gaming group if you could?
Nope. But my players know there are consequences for their actions. TTGs aren't the same as video games.
>>46867990
Our unified quest to restore order by subjugating local towns and installing oppressive leaders that subscribe to our totalitarian ideals have pretty much fucked the original idea of our DM to unite the land against a conclave of lords because he assumed we would play "good guys" when we interpreted it as Commies vs Nazis, guess who we're playing as.
>>46868304
I'm going with the Nazi's? (you better not be Red, or you're going to be dead).
>>46868173
Alright, I'll bite.
Explain how the crossed convict in the cop car had personal info about the officer's family without speculating.
>>46868332
Gott mit uns, literally.
>>46868394
>>46868362
>Explain how the crossed convict in the cop car had personal info about the officer's family without speculating.
It said right there in the comic that the Crossed was speculating. It's been a while since I read it, but it was a bit of dialog between the male lead and that very cop- male lead said that the Crossed pieced it together via cold-reading.
It was a scene that was meant to showcase that the Crossed were able to think and reason out things
>>46868362
He didn't. He was talking shit to get under the cops skin, this is revealed in the panels where the glasses guy is talking to the cop.
>>46868531
See?
Furthermore>>46868109
>They showed pretty early that you can become crossed even if you haven't been in contact with the crossed.
Just hearing them talk can cause you to become crossed if it affects you psychologically.
Is nonsense- it's only ever been that people become Crossed via fluid exchange, else that lady who had to put her son down would've Crossed herself.
>>46868489
It's also been established that the crossed retain all knowledge and skills that they had prior to being crossed.
Maybe the guy in the back of the cop car was some kind of conman or PUA before? He might have had some cold reading skills.
Also, have any of you guys ever used crossed in a D&D game instead of normal orcs or zombies?
>>46862743
Err...in OP's pic is that a child? Is it a midget? I really can't tell.
Either way is it gonna be ok?
>>46868489
>>46868531
>>46868588
So after re-skimming the comic, it turns out I miss-remembered a bunch of details.
>>46863560
It's essentially what would happen if you tried to turn a shock image into a comic books franchise. /tg/ hates chaotic stupid edgy shit, so it's easy to get fa/tg/uys riled up by posting it.
>>46868843
It's a child.
It'll be okay until they get bored of listening to her cries, they they'll rape her to death.
>>46868734
>Also, have any of you guys ever used crossed in a D&D game instead of normal orcs or zombies?
When I ran a game of "Hellcats and Hockeysticks", with these psycho chicks called "The eXed". Pretty much chicks who went through bad breakups would get an X rash on their face and just become great big destructive, verbally abusive bitches.
It was a magical disease, so it could only 'infect' those chick in bad-breakups
No, I'm not kidding. It only lasted a session, but it was fun as hell.
>>46868852
You know what? That's fine. Sorry I was a douche and said you never read the comic
>>46868907
No biggie man. I think the biggest thing I based my original assumption on was how Randall was crossed without ever being near the crossed, then I realized he was hit by the cum-bullet.
Jesus Christ.
>>46862743
>The latter because anything less than Morder Orcs or Crossed, I feel is doing the alignment a disservice.
Chaotic Evil is a 100% legitimate alignment. You don't abide by rules and you don't abide by morality.
Guess what PCs do, usually? They leave society and go kill and loot, essentially.
>>46868993
Bahaha, I remember that scene!
Ahhh...sometimes I'm sad I got rid of those comics. But like I've repeated a gajillion times already- David Lapham fucked the series up.
>>46867760
Well,they certainly are an example of CE,but the important distinction is that they are an irrational example of CE,same as with LOTR orcs.That's good if you want villain fodder,but not particularly nuanced enough for a PC(unless that's what you're going for,of course).
What I would point towards as an example of a bit more nuanced CE is Orcus,or something similarly omnicidal,maybe someone who was so broken by the world that he can't see any course of action other than retaliation.
>>46868889
Oh.
I think I'll go to another thread now.
>>46863708
They intentionally and explicitly made it meaningless from the get-go; part of the inspiration (there aren't enough quote marks) behind Crossed was that zombie stories inevitably boil down to "find the cure!" or "get to the safe place!" and they wanted to have a zombie story that was explicitly impossible to cure, had no clear origin to the virus and had no reliable safe place. The rationale is that this frees up the writer to focus on things like characters and scenarios that don't fall into worn, tired zombie tropes.
Which would be great except it's terrible. Crossed hits that special kind of awful where you can see something interesting and then immediately regret being interested (not because of the gore but because the interesting thing is just tossed aside or whatever). Like, there's a Crossed story that takes place in the modern day and involves a bunch of survivors piecing together references to a previous Crossed event that happened when man was barely civilised, implying that the Crossed were originally a Neanderthal-like side-species ("Homo Tortor") that might have bred into the human genome and is now atavistically reasserting itself in the form of the current Crossed outbreak. Except when you find the guy who wrote the book, he's become Crossed and insists he made it all up. (Now, maybe he's saying that because he's Crossed and crazy and just wants to say whatever it takes to hurt you, but still)
What started off as an attempt to tell a story avoiding certain tropes essentially becomes a non-story. The series tent poles of "no cure, no answers, no safety, no salvation" mean that nothing really happens over the course of the story other than some murders. You don't engage with the characters because they're not there to do anything besides die. You don't invest in the events because nothing the characters do can matter.
>>46862743
>are there any alignments that you would/have restricted from your gaming group if you could?
yeah, all the evil alignments.
>>46869046
I have the first 9 issues by Garth if you want them, I think he did up to 10, but I couldn't find a good seed to the final issue.
I could upload them if you know of a good service where I don't have to make an account.
>>46869078
So maybe Darkseid? or is he LE, you think?
>>46869139
It's okay bro, Thanks though.
>>46869157
Hmm,I'd say Darkseid is more LE,if only because he wants to assert control,which I would associate with lawfulness and order.That is if I remember his character correctly.
>>46869139
Please do upload.
I found this: http://viewcomic.com/?s=crossed
>>46863708
>solid
>sober
yeah, nah. The only thing Garth does well is write Superman.
>>46869294
Give us a few examples of nuanced CE that would be good for PCs, if you please.
>>46869157
LE and CG (generally, of course) both subscribe the the idea that the end justifies the means.
Darksied, Apocalypse and Magneto fit the LE alignment if you don't count specific issues where they deviate for their usual norms.
Would Galactus fall under CG or TN?
>>46863644
>as Ennis tries to use Crossed to explore an idea or a concept (such as Altruism vs Pragmatism in a survival situation)
This. The whole reason he didn't just use zombies is because zombie fiction has largely solved zombies as a threat, so he wanted something that there was really no way of humanity prevailing against.
>>46863715
"fight" on /tg/ still means "debate club" anywhere else. We're unnaturally civil while calling each other idiots. Somewhat enthralling really.
But honestly, /tg/ is no easier to troll than ever prior. it's downright impossible to make us mad. I mean, pic related, that's a female dwarf, right? But on /v/ or /b/ it's an invitation to scream for the moderators.
>>46869516
on /mlp/ they'd just call it humanized Applejack.
>>46869405
Honestly,it's quite hard to think of much off the top of my head,I'd say a dark side playthrough of KoTOR 2 would be a good starting point.Amatsu-Mikaboshi from Marvel could be another.Will contribute more if I remember.
>>46869428
Galactus would probably fall under TN,since he cares about universal balance,without regard to (some) life.
>>46869356
Uploading now.
>>46869479
Which makes for piss-poor reading, generally. It's like those Muv-Luv games, where the super special aliens are totally invincible and cannot possibly be defeated because author fiat.
Like most exercises in guro, it started badly, and went downhill.
If we were at all rational about it: the inhibition-free crossed would purge themselves in a gory display of self-induced cannibalistic blood orgies over the course of a few weeks. But, since it isn't realistic, the crossed get nuclear launch codes and super-smart zombie nuns who can't conjugate words or read anymore.
Remove the art, and it's full of characters acting stupidly against their own best interests and monsters that always win. Remove the dialogue, and it's gore-porn. Even united, neither excuses the other's failings.
>>46869601
I don't see it.
>>46869699
Ok, real talk; I was just gonna google a picture to show what I meant, but it turns out the pic in >>46869516 is literally humanized Applejack from mlp.
Here's another pic for the very same artist, "Mangneto".
>>46869812
That's hilarious
>>46862743
I'm the only dm in a group of dm's who's against evil players and I'm known for it.
I do not altogether ban evil players, but I do warn them that they'll get fucked if they act out of line (karma's a big thing in my world). What I mean is. It's fine to play some sort of devil on a contract to help a party. But a random psychopath is going to be held up by the inquisition and publicly executed.
The thing is. If you are a dm, and a player is acting a lil' shit (The biggest taboo being fucking all the other players over), set a trap up for them. Find a situation where they willingly go to their death, make it abundantly clear that the resulting events are due to their actions. Basically don't be 'that dm' and smite them with your holy god fist. Make it their fault, and most of all, make it entertaining. Mostly this is just for 'redeemable' players. If you've had your occ talk with them and they are acting like a bitch, then don't bother with poking fun. Kick them out, maybe turn their character into the next bbeg, you'll save yourself and your players a lot of trouble.
>>46869516
>>46862743
I will allow any alignment as long as it doesn't unduly disrupt the game. If I'm running a jokey or non-serious game, anything goes usually; in a serious game I'll still allow it as long as the player justifies it to me, and they contribute to the plot instead of just being a jackass.
>>46869675
>the inhibition-free crossed would purge themselves over the course of a few weeks
Right; they often travel in packs but are just as often shown tearing their fellow Crossed apart - even tearing THEMSELVES apart. But because author fiat, Alan Moore has them still being around 100 years later.
>>46870125
>>46869675
>>46869103
>>46868109
>>46863708
This. this is why I never got into the series. morbid curiosity drew me in at first, but the story is a mess in more ways than one.
>>46869356
Here's issue 0-9
https://mega.nz/#!8RYE3aJQ
>>46870428
Whoops, forgot the decryption key.
!e7dF_guIFgJM0owWKcDkKXTFoo_lZ1bDXup5e6_EqVA
The entire Chaotic side of the spectrum is mostly restricted for me. Chaotic Evil and Neutral often leads to "because reasons", "lol iunno", "it's okay i'm chaotic", and "fuck you i'm doing it anyways" as reasons for virtually everything they do. Chaotic Good is included in this as well by virtue of association and so players can't say I'm biased against Chaotic Neutrals or Chaotic Evils, just Chaotics.
True Neutrals get scrutiny unless the character is playing a Monk or possibly Druid. Lawful Good gets scrutiny unless the player has a good philosophical understanding of what Lawful Good represents.
Everything else is pretty much a go.
>>46868889
Then why does it have the face of a middle aged man?
>>46868109
>They even showed that the crossed ones have access to knowledge they shouldn't have, like personal info about people they've never met.
Uh, later in that issue they explained that the guy just noticed the cop's wedding ring.
>>46863644
>>46867191
>>46867624
>>46869103
>>46869139
>>46869479
to be frank Garth Ennis is a moron who can't write his way out of a paper bag without taking a gigantic crap on someone, if you want to read a comic from Avatar Press that's actually good, look up Uber
>>46869675
yeah Muv-Luv isn't all that great either, although I actually do like the BETA, cause unlike the Crossed they are actually an interesting set of enemies
>>46871194
Yeah uber is the shit, of course I'm a sucker for alternate WWII stories.
>>46871194
the beta arent interesting at all they are simply enemy whos bizarro plot armor invalidates all but the most contrived strategies to best them.
>>46871194
>Uber.
>good.
Yeah, nah, I disagree. Dark Gods on the other hand is pretty decent, have a look at that one.
>>46869516
On /v/ or /b/ it's an invitation to jack it.
>>46862743
Personally I just kick out That Guy so everyone can play whatever alignment they want because they aren't That Guy.
Why would you play with That Guy? Is there a point to keeping That Guy in the group and just trying to control his pantshittery with weird rules like this? Even if you're short players, it's probably a mercy to kill a group in the womb than to actually attempt at playing with That Guy and having a nightmare of a session before the inevitable collapse.
The best thing to do is to stop using alignment altogether.
Just from the start say "hey guys, this is a game about being heroes who are generally morally upstanding, as is common in media."
>>46869405
He evenjoins the heroes while still being a sadistic bastard.
>>46869405
A lot of people say mercs are NE, but honestly, I could see 90% of cutpurses and assassins being CE. Just because they're a bad person doesn't mean they can't do good things.
>>46862743
Lawful Good, it's always played by control freaks who want to dictate how other people play their characters.
>>46869078
I have to say the best example of CE I have ever seen would have to Heath Ledgers Joker, it is the absolute extreme of the spectrum but that is why i use it as an example for new players when explaining the alignment spectrum.
>>46869294
>Implying that the desire for power over others isn't an evil trait that has little to do with law/chaos.
Law wants structures and clear indications of what you can and can't do. That doesn't really coincide with keeping control of others. It's entirely likely for a person to want strict order because it simplifies things (which isn't to say that lawful types are simple). It's also likely that a person can try to control or dominate others simply so that they can do what they want when they want, without regard to order or law (while such a person would love rules, they see them more as a means to an end, and probably see themselves as above them).
>>46869405
>Nuanced CE
Kimbley and Scar from FMA: Brotherhood
The Comedian from Watchmen to an extent
Ventress from Star Wars
Maleficent
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>46862743
>crossed
Eh. A very select few of the stories within it are cool, like the one about the biker and the hippie.
Otherwise it's a meh comic.
>>46862840
Then why did you feel the necessity of posting a motivational of that comic, when a simple alignment chart would have been easy to find, sufficed for the thread theme, and not detracting from its intended discussion?
>>46871271
I couldn't really get into Uber due to how they keep TALKING about the idea that Germany is fighting a losing game but they win every single notable battle unless it's vs the Russian Witch. That and all the setup for HMS Churchill pissed me off with the payoff.
Evil vs Good is very similar to Black and White on the mana pie in MtG. Evil/Black is all about self-service, putting yourself first. Good/White is all about the needs of the many.
Chaotic Evil is more about just "fuck you, I do what I want", rather than "lolololol kill babies". CE will lie and cheat on a deal with a merchant because they will never meet again, and CE wants more money. They don't need the money, and they aren't going to just kill the merchant and rape his corpse, but they want to come out on top, and they don't mind how they get there.
The other thing to bear in mind is that CE is not stupid. Sure, you can stab everyone you meet. But unless you kill everyone who ever sees you do so, word will eventually get out, and you'll be put down like the monster you are.
CE would likely have a cover reason for why they stabbed a random person, but they wouldn't do it on the regular. They know that doing so would make life harder for number 1, which is the complete opposite of what it embodies.
>>46862743
If you have problems with players, it's not because of what alignment they play, it's because your players are asshats.
Blaming alignments for shitty players is retarded.
>>46863990
>I can't help but think of Steve Buscemi's character from ConAir for some reason. Specifically that line about how he wore some lady's head as a hat for a few hours.
You sure that wasn't the Grey Knights codex?
>>46875678
someonestopmyretardedlaughterimgonnasuffocate
>alignment thread
>CE is lolrandummurder
Your everyday street thief is CE.
These problems are with like half the alignments. I mean lawful good is the worst people become sticks in the mud not willing to bend or break any law. Had a fighter play this and the game was boring as because anything the group wanted to do he was like no because laws and the group ended up going with him because the choices were either kick him out when half the group were friends with him, tell him to change how his character acxted to whihc he acted like a gigantic man-child or go on wihtout him, which would have gone basically the same way as asking him to change his character. Neutral's just as bad in some ways, I've had people be basically completely apathetic which does not a fun game make. The big thing is that every alignment can be shit if you take it to it's extreme or play to the alignment, an alignment is a reflection of he character not the other way around.
CE = complete sociopath and that could work in a party so long as the party continues to be beneficial for the CE individual.
>>46875991
I thought that was NE...?
>>46875232
Because alignment charts cause more alignment charts. And that's gay.
>>46876035
No NE is just greed or arrogance unchecked by concerns of harm. Or, if you prefer, someone willing to do bad, but only willing to break the rules if they're sure they won't get caught.
>>46876127
And this is why alignment threads are doomed to end in fights, because that seems almost Lawful.
>>46876148
Lawful is desire to be bad without breaking any rules.
>>46876172
I thought it was being as evil as you could be without breaking the law
>>46875344
Apparently the series was only meant to be 30 or so issues long, but it sold far better than expected so the creators extended the story.
And as a result we end with a resounding Axis victory before a hiatus.
>>46869516
>I mean, pic related, that's a female dwarf, right?
where's her beard?
>>46862743
Yeah, I restrict the following 9 alignments:
Lawful Good
Good
Chaotic Good
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
Lawful Evil
Evil
Chaotic Evil
Because alignments are dumb. If there's a guy who supports slavery and necromancy 'cause he believes people will be happier, healthier and more productive if they are properly controlled, and wishes the best for future generations, is that evil or good?
doesn't fucking matter, that's a character. Everything else is just useless pidgeonholing.
>>46876842
This.
People who over-think alignment are doing it wrong. Better use goals, ideas, traditions and other motives as a base for your character's personality rather than some stupid alignment. The case "ends justify the means" doesn't exactly fit with the nine alignments.
>>46869601
I used it as a template for my dwarf character. It's a good template to draw and armor on, same with the pose.
>>46878971
Clothes* and armor
>>46862743
If the alignment has a Chaotic component, it also must have a good component. If the alignment has an Evil component it must also have a lawful component.
Assuming alignment is fundamental to the game and not a pain to discard altogether.
>>46868109
>They showed pretty early that you can become crossed even if you haven't been in contact with the crossed.
What is airborne virus.
There was like a code in one of the comics, but I haven't any luck in cracking it.
Hoped that the chapter index might tell what future Crossed comics would be about.
>>46875344
yeah ill grant you that. what realistically should have happened to keep the tension/story going is that they should have had Germany wining a few big and small battles in the beginning, just enough to claw their way from the brink of defeat but as the story goes and the allies start to get ubers on the tide starts to turn against them(much like IRL) then if you want to be dramatic have the final before the hiatus be a major Germany victory that necessitates the allies regrouping before they go back on the offensive.
hopefully the second run wont be that much of a German curbstomp
>>46862743
No problem with chaotic but evil? Evil alignments are game-fuckers. I don't allow to play it in my games. And the "all evil party" is just bullshit.
>>46879892
>And the "all evil party" is just bullshit.
Why so?
>>46869675
The free webcomic they did was pretty decent character wise.
>>46863471
why?
>>46879892
Depends on the quality of the people you play with. The group I play/DM in generally allows all alignments unless it's your first game in the group. It's all about trusting your players/teammates to not be dipshits and teamkill for the lulz.
>>46883619
idk /tg/ are fags about edgy stuff?
I mean, that's just a theory. All of one person on this board seems to like Konrad Curze, and people post the picture of The Antagonist from "Hatred" here when they're talking about edgelords.
>>46870125
>Alan Moore
Anon, please. Don't trigger my autism like that, I know you know better.
>>46884533
Konrad has the advantage of being (1) a bad guy and (2) a primarch. Their lives started out fucked up by virtue of their birth. And the story supports his eventual- well, whatever, he's dead, it's not really relevant.
what /tg/ hates is *pointless* edge. and *misused* edge. We hate the Cold Steel "*pssshhht* Nothin personnel, kid." school of edge, the "I want to kill everyone because they are such sheep" school of edge. We hate the "BLOOD! INTESTINES! DINE ON MY FECES! SHATTERED SPINAL COLUMNS!" kind of edge that comes out of the works of people who don't have anything interesting to add to the conversation, so they just aim for "shocking". We hate the teenage concept of edge that comes out of thinking bodies are made out of play-dough, where a punch tears off a man's jaw and a kick makes their testicles explode and guns leave holes the size of a paint bucket in their victims.
>>46886367
>We hate the "BLOOD! INTESTINES! DINE ON MY FECES! SHATTERED SPINAL COLUMNS!" kind of edge that comes out of the works of people who don't have anything interesting to add to the conversation, so they just aim for "shocking"
yet Khorne berserkers are alright?
>>46886367
"Boobs" should have been the free space.
>>46863708
Why does it imply all humans have murderous impulses that are under the surface? It's not like humans are secretly pure evil
>>46886800
Because most people have one person they wish they could beat to death.
Others have one urge that they feel cannot be sated properly.
Others are just so fucking bored that they need something new to excite them.
>>46886367
>what /tg/ hates is *pointless* edge. and *misused* edge. We hate the Cold Steel "*pssshhht* Nothin personnel, kid." school of edge ,the "I want to kill everyone because they are such sheep" school of edge.
Yet,you always have a tendence to forget what it means.
>We hate the "BLOOD! INTESTINES! DINE ON MY FECES! SHATTERED SPINAL COLUMNS!" kind of edge that comes out of the works of people who don't have anything interesting to add to the conversation, so they just aim for "shocking"
-->>46886557
>We hate the teenage concept of edge that comes out of thinking bodies are made out of play-dough, where a punch tears off a man's jaw and a kick makes their testicles explode and guns leave holes the size of a paint bucket in their victims.
Yet ,you still love anime
"Crossed" exist for people who just enjoy violence in general.
What makes it shit, is that no matter how hard they try to push it,it always same shit.Different entourage,same shit.
>>46887042
>What makes it shit, is that no matter how hard they try to push it,it always same shit.Different entourage,same shit.
I suppose so, yeah. I think it's when they started to go from gruesomeness to mixing said gruesomeness with porniness that I stopped reading it.
>>46886800
It's actually not so much that. Rather, the more repugnant an act or concept would be to you normally, the more appealing the Crossed virus makes it to you.
>>46887407
So It basically makes you do the opposite of what you would normally desire to do, so the more pure and good you are the more evil the virus turns you, meaning an amoral jackass might end up nearly uneffected
>>46886367
>where a punch tears off a man's jaw and a kick makes their testicles explode and guns leave holes the size of a paint bucket in their victims.
This is /tg/ after all, that stuff can happen. Super strength and super weapons man.
>>46887483
That was very much the point of "Crossed: Psychopath"
The main character (a psychopath) was just as bad as the Crossed.
>>46886367
>picrelated
Wow, The Boys cross out ALL the squares! Every one of them!
>>46887683
I don't recall Nerdpandering in The Boys.
Also the bingo is missing black trenchcoat as a markable space
>>46887768
The protagonist? The only thing that differentiates Wee Hughie from an average Scottish nerd is that he's capable of scoring.
>>46887887
Also Simon Pegg.
It's been a while since I read The Boys, so I don't remember Wee Hughie being nerdy.
>>46869103
Anon, I have never read a better description of the failures of Crossed than this.
+1.
>>46862743
If you have a "that guy" that's the issue, not alignment. Chaotic Neutral encompasses most cool characters and it's unnecessarily taking a lot from the players. If you take it out, and you have a "that guy", he's just going to go chaotic good and do all the same shit.
OP here
Thanks dudes. You've given me something to ponder. And thanks for not being too pissed with my choice of pic
>>46862743
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PNObbU6WqE
Chaotic Neutral is an awesome alignment but I generally don't allow someone to play a character of that alignment unless I know them well.
Lawful Good is another alignment "that guy" loves to play.
>>46886367
>guns leave holes the size of a paint bucket in their victims
Just going to leave this here.
>>46871194
Muv-Luv's Beta are "plot armor: the alien invasion".
Probably the least efficient mining company ever created, the BETA bore deep into a planet, and then fail to actually provide any extracted resources, squandering them instead on building giant invincible vagina / penis monsters and eyeballs that shoot to-the-horizon lasers which kill everything except protagonists in one shot.
Christ, the amount of plot armor that "instant perfect laser eyes" grants, only outdone by "crab monster requires battleship guns to injure"
The fact it's a VN, and a fan service laden one at that, doesn't help. "Look at my dick monster! Now look at these bitches in skintight jumpsuits! Whee!"
>>46887042
Forget what WHAT means?
>Bringing up Anime
I don't think everyone on /tg/ likes anime, I generally find it sticks pretty closely to the rule of "90% of everything is crap". Barring a few exceptions, I can safely ignore anime and not have missed anything.
Besides, a punch in something like Dragonball is more likely to send a person zooming into a freshly made impact crater than take off a jaw. And a slap to a dense harem protagonist just launches him into orbit, makes the twinkly star, and then he's back in time for the next awkward bathing scene.
>>46886557
Khorne is in it for bloodshed. They *just* kill shit. I can't remember a story of Khornate berserkers ever carrying around the corpses of their victims with intent of performing an all-vivisected version of "One Night in Paris" as a Saucey Puppet Show. Berserkers hit a dude with a chainsaw axe, then, once the fight is out of him, move on to hitting a different dude with a chainsaw axe. Because they need blood to flow, and it doesn't matter where from. It's very straightforward and fairly practical as far as psychopathic chaos-tainted super-soldiers go. And while
they might collect trophies, it's the very sensible skulls (for the skull throne), because they last a good long while and can be easily displayed as absolute proof of a kill. Edgelords would go around collectjng, I dunno, testicles? Possibly boobs, or something else sexual from their victims, (because sex!) but then you run into the issue of storage and display, Skulls you can do basic carpentry with (to build a skull throne, natch).
>>46890328
Gamers go through phases in their career.
>LG is the Only alignment.
New faces want to make the hero, so they pick the default hero alignment.
>LG is the Worst alignment.
Rebels stand up against the man! Law and Good is a farce! Hack the Plant!
>LG is the Best alignment.
"It is all so clear now, being LG isn't being Stupid, it isn't being Nice. It's about having ideals that are for the betterment of all."
