how do gunslingers work in a 3.5/pathfinder dungeon? arent their guns supposed to be loud? shouldnt other monters/npc notice there is someone shooting their partnerts somewhere ahead?
>>46817712
Have you ever had a monster yell in a dungeon? Or fought someone? Or thrown alchemists fire? Or SONIC spells?
Same principle, because your DM wants to give you a fair chance. Same reason they are standing in groups of manageable numbers and not leaving their dungeon when you take a rest. Same reason they have enough food stockpiles to lasts for weeks so you can't poison them.
>>46817712
3.pf works on rules interactions rather than common sense.
Play LotFP, which actually does guns in DnD properly.
>>46817712
Of course they do. What, does your GM just ignore most of the noises, sounds of fighting, and any interaction between rooms in a dungeon at all?
Sounds like a pretty shit GM mate.
>>46817792
yeah well, we are trying to put a little bit of realism on our setting and im the DM
>>46817988
no, ill be the DM, the setting is.. kinda low fantasy, there is every 3.5/pf stuff but magic is hard to obtain/cast (well it has always been like that in our settings), there are more medics/doctors/alchemist healers than true clerics in this world and guns are more common than sword
we are basically playing the transition between swords to guns
and they are going into a thieves lair/hideout, and one of our players is making a gunslinger so i was wondering how to handle this, specially gun's noices when they still dont have acces to Silence spells
>>46817712
>how do gunslingers work in a 3.5/pathfinder dungeon
Poorly.
Their ammunition is just too bloody expensive to make them worth it.
>>46817948
Legend of the Five Penises? Explain your acronyms.
>>46818271
just house-rule lower costs. if guns are going to be a main part of the setting (like in our case). then make them... well, maybe not cheap, but more "accesible"
or let the mobs drop more money/loot
>>46818293
Legion of truly ferocious porcupines
well, any ideas on how to let them use guns at will without alerting everybody in the dungeon/hideout?
>>46818739
magic guns
>>46818739
Silence magic?
>>46818293
Lamentations of the Flame Princess, a mediocre OD&D retroclone.
>>46818271
There's a lot of bigger problems. Like how they only do single-target damage in combat and nothing out of it. Or how they're not even a real PC class because they don't get spells.
>>46818775
>>46818777
they dont have acces to silence spells yet.
best i have came with so far was - a special alchemical gunpowder that makes little to no sound when ignited - expensive, but accessible
>>46818845
True.
But the ammo price is the REAL sticking point.
If memory serves, if you cheese the shit out of weapon cords so you can juggle pistols to get all of your attacks in a full attack, you'll peak (with good rolls) at slightly better burst damage against a single target than a guy with a bow and the appropriate Feats can do on average.
But then you're out of the fight for a period of multiple rounds while you reload.
Meanwhile, the guy with the bow can do his damage every single round.
Also, Paper Cartridges INCREASE the chance of a misfire in Pathfinder, which is just retarded. A good paper cartridge contains EXACTLY the right charge of powder for the weapon it's meant for. It makes a misfire LESS likely.
>>46818891
How does rapidly expanding gas not make noise when funneled down small tubes?
>>46818968
Magic?
>>46818271
>>46818964
>>46818845
>pathfinder is bad
Oh man, who coulda figured that one out
>>46818968
i dont know, thats why im justifying it with alchemy since magic is hard to obtain/cast
sorcerers are extremely rare, the most common are wizards, the highest level wizards are barely level 9 and they are separate by nearly two months of travel from each other, they all consider themselves archwizards already and rule their own "schools/academies" of magic
same with clerics, the usual is to find extremely wise doctors/alchemist that know how to treat/close wounds in the middle of a combat
>>46818891
>>46818968
I think you could theoretically slap a silencer (Hiram Percy Maxim invented the damn things, he called it a silencer, fuck off pedants) on a flintlock. It wouldn't work PERFECTLY (you'd still get some noise out of the flash hole) but it would reduce the boom.
Depending on how much magitech shit your setting has, just have them come across an Alchemist with slightly wild eyes and very tall hair, who offers a commission for the gunslinger(s) to test out his newest invention when they go into the nearby dungeon. The invention is a steel tube that affixes to the muzzle of the weapon, and is intended, so Mr. Makzim says, to reduce both the audible report and recoil of a firearm.
>>46819236
Forgot my pic.
>>46817712
>>46818179
Fights are already loud as fuck and will last longer and more distinctly than a gunshot. Guns are just louder.
Also there was a long as fuck transition between swords and guns. Hundreds of years with loads of genres that can fit inside.
>>46819236
>>46819249
this sounds very good and can come in riffle size as well, many thanks
>>46819304
>long as fuck transition between swords and guns
yeah we still have swords and axes but greatswords and greataxes and basically any great-esque is seen as kind of barbaric
>>46819021
If you're using magic to make your edgelord gun silent, why are you not just using spells at that point? Just giving everyone magic is how you end up with 4e.
>>46819021
he is right >>46819646
besides, like i said before, in our setting magic isnt easy to come by
>>46817712
Basically every monster in a dungeon is, because it's a form of prison, shackled to a particular wall via a long length of unbreakable adamantium chain.
>>46818968
Because the powder is cut with ash taken from the burial urns of the Quiet Monks.
>Ok, you hit the goblin, but I need you to roll for tinnitus
>>46819035
>One specific class that was unneeded is poorly balanced
This has never happened in the history of pen&paper RPGs ever!
Rolled 3 (1d20)
>>46821322
Do I get a bonus for having stuffed my ears full of cotton?
>>46821369
To be fair, it isn't just one class. Balance in Pathfinder is an absolute joke, and I say this as someone who plays and runs it.
>>46821791
The cotton in your ears didn't do much. You regret not buying the wax from the merchant who sold you your gun.
You have tinnitus. You take a -5 penalty on perception checks for one hour
>>46821846
Yeah I agree. Martial classes just generally suck dick unless you're in it for the gags and roleplay
It's just so much fun and it's popular enough to easily throw together a new group of people who know how to play if yours isn't working out
>>46818179
>yeah well, we are trying to put a little bit of realism on our setting and im the DM
Don't put ridiculous classic dungeons then. They are played for old good pulpy action, not realism.
The true value of a musket is not just that it puts a peasant on par with a warrior. The flash, the smoke, the noise, and the gruesome wound left behind are a true terror to behold. Have npcs act accordingly
>>46818739
It really hurts when you get hit by a gun. Specially old guns. By the actual gun I mean, not the bullet.
>>46822020
well its a thieves hideout, what do you suggest?
>>46822097
you mean the gun's butt or barrel? i guess a gun's butt should do 1d4 or 1d6 non-lethal damage, lice a mace or hammer
>>46818271
I'm playing a Musket wielding Dwarf in Pathfinder, and at level 5 I'm doing more damage than anyone in the party. Dex to damage, free action reloads and rapid shot all fired vs touch AC makes mincemeat of big, tankey enemies. My role is DPS, and I'm cool with that.
Ammo is expensive, but that's just making sure that you win fights and get loot. I usually only fire 4-6 shots a fight, and can easily get enough to make up for the gold I spent feeding my gun. In a pinch, I can make 1,000gp worth of black powder for 100gp, and sell it for profit.
>>46822197
>you mean the gun's butt or barrel? i guess a gun's butt should do 1d4 or 1d6 non-lethal damage, lice a mace or hammer
I was messing a little with you but yeah, probably.
>well its a thieves hideout, what do you suggest?
Well, getting a bit more serious the silencer idea of >>46819236 Alternatively, if your players are the kind that actually stops to think about strategies, send all the thieves go en masse against them the second they hear the shot. Make it so there's different ways to avoid being ganged and raped, for example one or two characters can block the door while the others deal with the enemies in the room. Or maybe there was a bridge to access the hideout and a smart retreat is the way to deal with the situation. Everything works.
You can even do both, you make it a little hard to get the silencer and, if they fail to obtain it, they have to pull their hair more to defeat the thieves bu it's still possible. Don't do that if you know your players are just gonna charge and die though.
>>46822197
A level 3 ability of the gunslinger is to pistol whip or buttstroke at 1d10 with the opportunity to trip.
>>46822218
>free action reloads
You literally cannot get those by RAW with a musket.
Normally it's a FULL ROUND ACTION to reload a two-handed firearm.
Rapid Reload makes it a Standard Action.
Alchemical Cartridges on top of that make it a Move Action, and you can enjoy the pleasure of a 15% chance to lose the cartridge and break your gun every single time you fire if you're using the things. 20% if your musket is a double barrel.
You've got a GM who is being very, very nice to you so your character won't suck. That's a GOOD THING, but it's not reflective of the actual rules.
>>46822719
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/musket-master
Please do your research before you spout off misinformation. Rapid reload as a level 1 bonus feat, fast musket deed lets me treat two handed firearms as one handed for reloads at level 3, alchemical cartridges do the rest of the work.
Dwarven favored class bonus of -1/4 misfire per level means that even with alchemical cartridges I misfire only 10% of the time, which I can fix as a move action. That means I can fix a misfire, load a cartridge and fire all in the same turn. All RAW compatible.
>>46818179
>realism
What a faggot.
>>46822021
Nobunaga, what are you doing on 4chan?
>>46822414
isnt 1d10 too much for a musket gun? i mean, considering the size of the butt wich is more or less the size of a sap (1d6)
>>46823037
To quote RAW:
>Pistol-Whip (Ex): At 3rd level, the gunslinger can make a surprise melee attack with the butt or handle of her firearm as a standard action. When she does, she is considered to be proficient with the firearm as a melee weapon and gains a bonus on the attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus of the firearm. The damage dealt by the pistol-whip is of the bludgeoning type, and is determined by the size of the firearm. One-handed firearms deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if wielded by Small creatures) and two-handed firearms deal 1d10 points of damage (1d8 if wielded by Small creatures). Regardless of the gunslinger’s size, the critical multiplier of this attack is 20/×2. If the attack hits, the gunslinger can make a combat maneuver check to knock the target prone as a free action. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point.
Consider the musket to be a massive goddamn club. A sap has no leverage, while a musket barrel is long AF.
>>46818964
you mean game writers don't understand the mechanics of the weapons they put in their game?
who know
>>46819646
>giving everyone magic is how you end up with 4e
And thats a bad thing because?
>>46817712
Guns and Gunslingers are already the kings of shit in their systems, why would you make them WORSE you autist?
>>46823572
>And thats a bad thing because?
if everything has magic it becomes mundane, diversity is what makes a system interesting imo
>them WORSE
i never suggested anything, i actually asked about how to handle a noisy gun in a dungeon where you can be heard if you are obviously too loud and therefore alert everyone ahead of you
>>46817712
>gunslingers work in a 3.5
There isn't
>pathfinder dungeon
You read many Pazio modules? Like one out of 15 are in a proper dungeon-dungeon.
>loud
Swords on armor are loud. Fireball explosions are loud. Apply your logic to every other class.
>>46823911
>pathfinder dungeon
You read many Pazio modules? Like one out of 15 are in a proper dungeon-dungeon.
i took the word dungeon for refference, since its gonna be a thief hideout, its gonna be an enclosed space, long corridors, traps and secret doors, etc
> Fireball explosions are loud
doesnt have to be. we house rule fire spells as loud as a flamethrower, a gun is much more louder than that
>Apply your logic to every other class.
the group is composed of:
a warrior, a wizard, alchemist/healer, monk, rogue, gunslinger and between 4 or 5 npcs that might die, help or hinder the group
most of them combat "silently", at least more silently than a guy firing a gun every six seconds or so
>>46824160
>its gonna be a thief hideout
Well then your players should be RELYING on the noise. Extremely loud noises in enclosed spaces are disorienting for those not expecting them. If firearms aren't yet common in the setting, that shit will be terrifying and demoralizing. I'd advise your gunslinger to just take a BUNCH of guns in with him, and the party to move fast. SWAT raid that shit, move through each room as quickly, loudly, and aggressively as possible. The biggest, meanest looking dude in any given room should eat a pair of musket balls to the face as soon as the party enter (double muskets are awesome), then the melee fighters should take the moment of confusion to bumrush the others.
Has anyone made rules for a Kentucky Rifle in Pathfinder?
What about minie balls?
PF seems to skip straight from muskets to trapdoor rifles like the martini-henry, without touching on any of the intervening firearms developments.
>>46824804
firearms and alchemy ARE common in the setting, wizards and clerics are respected, a sorcerers and druids are feared, often hunted or shunned
but still, going swat sounds like a good plan, im gonna hint it at them
they are going there because the monk found out that the leader is the murderer of a female gnome's husband wich is friend of the group. the group first met her when she was already a 5 or 6 years widow, but still the monk likes her alot (as a friend) and made her the promise to find her husband's murderer
>>46824946
> rules for a Kentucky Rifle
got no idea but looks like a very powerfull gun, i would say it does 1d12 damage or 2d6
I play the Gunslinger until 8th i used dead shot which makes it so you never misfire I was using pistols I was able to get 5 attacks off of one cartridge which is only 33 not to mention 90% of the time it would be save or die Because I do over 50 damage an attack
>>46824946
>Has anyone made rules for a Kentucky Rifle in Pathfinder?
>>46825325
>got no idea but looks like a very powerfull gun, i would say it does 1d12 damage or 2d6
I'll take a quick crack at 'em.
Dwarven Longrifle
Price: 2500 GP
Damage: 1d10 (small) 2d6 (medium) Bludgeoning and Piercing
Crit: ×4
Range: 60 ft. (80 ft. if using Conical Bullets)
Misfire: 1–2 (5 ft.)
Capacity:1
Weight: 9 lbs.
Conical Bullets
Price: 3 GP
Weight: -- (a group of 30 conical bullets weighs .5 lbs)
These special bullets are designed for use in "rifled muskets" like the Dwarven Longrifle. They are roughly conical in shape, with three exterior grease-filled grooves, and a conical hollow in the base. When fired, the bullet expands, engaging the rifling in the barrel, granting improved accuracy over distance.
>>46825617
>Dwarven Longrifle
op here, saved it, thanks mate
>>46817712
It's a Perception check, granted it's actually a lot harder to see or hear things with it than you might think.
For example, as written, it's pretty much impossible to see a 50' tall bonfire burning from a half mile away, at night.
