Darkspear Edition
Discuss the viability of the Warcraft universe as a tabletop RPG setting. Have fun, don't go full autist, and keep your cool. This is not /v/ or /vg/.
Previous thread: >>46768128
>>46796538
>Darkspear
>not superior Amani
>>46796609
Amani a shit
Zul'jin a big fat babby
Do I come get da voodoo or stay away from da voodoo?
>>46796850
I think it's on a case-by-case basis at this point. Avoid it if you can help it.
>>46796850
>turn in quest to troll NPC
>"stay away from da voodoo"
>he turns around and immediately starts doing voodoo
y-you t-too
>>46796850
Can I stick my dick in da voodoo?
>>46797163
Do you want your junk to shrink or turn into a frog?
so why did Daelin want gilneas not to put a perenolde in Alterac?
>>46796493
That's really cool. I never actually saw any Shadow Hunter NPCs besides Vol'Jin (he is one, right?).
>>46798183
yes. He is a shadow hunter.
>>46798183
Vol'jin is a shadow hunter, yes. Arguably the strongest shadow hunter in the world, in fact.
>>46798438
I find that easy to believe, considering I don't know of any other Shadow Hunters. Well, there was that one guy in the bonus campaign of TFT.
>>46798741
Rokhan? We see him around in Northrend but besides that the other Shadow Hunters don't show up ingame until WoD.
>>46798741
Rokhan was a very important figure in the founding of Orgrimmar (and Durotar as a whole). He also chills in Dragonblight and your WoD garrison.
Draenor has Darkspear Shadow Hunters in every corner.
One of the cool things about WoD is that it gives a twist to some of the things we saw in Outland. For example, the Cenarion Circle is amazed that Zangarmarsh has life flourishing despite the apocalyptic conditions and thinks it's miracle that needs protecting. What we actually learned from Draenor is that the reason the plants and fungi are so durable is because they're practically the Scourge that threatened all life and was only barely held back.
>>46799331
I don't remember WoD explaining much about that, only some details about the sea of Draenor being different to Azeroth's in that it's full of giant mushrooms.
Care to explain?
>>46799331
>Skettis wasn't actually an impenetrable mountain fortress that was the last vestige of an ancient empire, it was just a refugee camp that ended up as Switzerland when the run up to it fell into the Twisting Nether
>>46799918
there's quests everywhere with mushroom monsters coming up out of the surf and attacking people. Even Highmaul has them
>>46799918
>>46799331
That was so fucking dumb. In WC2 and 3 we see mushroom forests and barren red shit. Then in BC they got split into hellfire and zangar, two great, thematically contained zones that were absolute fan favorites(after nagrand of course) then they retcon that shit for absolutely no reason and added that bland frostfire shit instead of having zangar in WoD.
>>46795990
>Blizzard does a really poor job of keeping races relevant. It's 90% Humans/Orcs with the occasional Night Elf or Forsaken zone. There are Trolls but they're never the Darkspear, and the occasional Dwarf involvement when it's Titan shit.
>Gnomes, Goblins, Draenei, Tauren, etc all get pretty shafted.
worgen are going to be used in stormheim because of the gilneas/forsaken conflict and some old gilnean quest npcs are being used in legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPb0xClzhtE
unfortunately we haven't gotten any new models for the worgen so the female worgen still have their chihuahua face and weird rigging and both genders need some more customization options because because outside of the clothing they wear and fur color all worgen look alike. the other races at least have different faces and hair styles
the gnomes were at the broken shore
https://youtu.be/qW0XVgaKh_g?t=12m13s
>>46800178
Frostfire was pretty cool, the real problem was Gor "half a zone of bonus objectives because we cute the story" grond
>>46800178
Zangarmarsh is literally what little remains of Draenor's sea in present time. We've always known that.
>>46799918
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Primals
>>46800574
Gorgrond didn't explain anything about Zangarmarsh or fungus giants. A few hours ago I finished all the story quests and some in the northern part that aren't part of the achievement.
They probably explain it in Nagrand, I believe.
Anyway, there are no primals in Outland (fungus giants are not primals, right?) except sporelings, which are benevolent or at least friendly. A Blizzard employee said on Twitter that they are mutated podlings.
>>46800449
No it wasnt. Telredor was described to be several hundred years old multiple times.
>>46800791
Gorgrond felt like they reused the assets and ideas of a completely different expansion pack. I wanted to fight caveman steampunk orcs in a cool yellowstone setting, not this nature bullshit.
>>46800574
>There was an additional Primal race known as the Fara, which was cut from the expansion some time during its development.
How unsurprising. The entire expansion pack was so half baked its not even funny. They rape lore to time travel AND alternate universe levels just for a supposed "epic" moment, build up all this shit and then just meander away and leave everything in favor of burning legion stuff. Hellfire Citadel looks more part of the next expansion pack then the current.
>>46799331
>>46799918
There's a questline in Nagrand which dovetails into some of the Highmaul/ogre stuff which states that the giant mushrooms in Draenor's oceans are essentially a giant fungoid hivemind which is constantly pushing to invade other biotopes. The fungal giants are one expression of this, they're constantly pouring ashore in Nagrand. Presumably that'd be the reason they've overrun the Zangaramarsh zone in Outland.
>>46801237
That's fucking terrifying.
Plant/fungus creatures always scare the crap outta me.
>>46796538
So... Basically "Warcraft Waifu Thread, ED.3.5" ?
Were mogu the most potentially powerful race, and are Forsaken the currently most powerful faction?
>>46801480
forsaken would get rekt by the ebon blade in open conflict. I would put the scourge as the strongest. All Bolvar has to do is let slip and the scourge turns the world into sylvania.
The mogu were completely titan aligned.
>>46801480
>and are Forsaken the currently most powerful faction?
Author fiat. Literally everything is going in their way even when they shouldnt. Like Tirion literally being in the same zone they are deploying plague in and ignoring it.
>>46801598
>All Bolvar has to do is let slip and the scourge turns the world into sylvania.
So they cover it in forests?
>>46801625
Yeah... That always confused me. I know the Argent Dawn and the Knights of the Ebon Blade both took a lot of casualties in Wotlk, and I know they have to keep an eye on Northrend, but why in God's name are they just ignoring the Forsaken right now? Especially with Sylvanas literally capturing Deathknights for torture/snuggles/necromancy/whatever?
>>46801408
Sure!
>>46801710
>Especially with Sylvanas literally capturing Deathknights
Koltira was a traitor, he should have been killed (again)
>>46801480
Wouldn't it be the Ebon Blade?
>bros with the faction that could hard counter them
>came out of Northrend better than they started, with new bases, more resources, and their necropolis not even scratched
>haven't been bogged down in a major conflict since then while everyone else is punching each other in the face
>have connections in the horde and alliance
>now they have the backing of the lich king, the new four horsemen, and possibly Kel'thuzad
>>46801668
bolvar leading the scourge would be fine though. you would just have friendly neighborhood skellys walking around picking up trash and getting cats out of trees. hes not an edgelord like arthas
>>46801786
Wasnt it told in cata that most of them wandered away after the defeat of the lich king because they had nothing to do? I know that some dwarf death knight went to be a full time alliance commander with no ties to the ebon blade whatsoever.
>>46801710
It's the restrictions with the mmo genre and the inability of Blizzard to allow anything bad to happen to a playable faction.
And don't say Theramore. What happened to Theramore is nothing but Jainas fault, if she had declared Theramore as a neutral power and refused to allow Alliance forces to use her lands as a staging point for the invasion into the Barrens than Garrosh wouldn't have had to nuke her beloved city into nothingness.
>>46801408
>Waifu thread
Would u fug an undead?
>>46801865
>claims its meta reasons that nothing bad happens to player factions
>gives an example of something bad happening to a player faction and then gives lore reasons for it
wew
>>46801836
I think a majority of the death knights left the ebon blade after wotlk with only a minority of them staying behind to mop up the scourge forces in northrend. Not sure if this is true or not but I do remember something about the argent crusade and/or the ebon blade staying behind in northrend to take care of the remaining scourge armies that roamed the continent.
>>46801898
>Would u fug an undead?
If they look like that and don't stink like corpse, yes. But then again not every Undead is Sylvanas, right?
>>46801408
indeed.
>>46801898
yes but only old sylvanas. new sylvanas looks like a man to "fight" the patriarchy
>>46801408
>>46801742
>>46801898
Waifu Thread Go!!!
>>46801865
>It's the restrictions with the mmo genre
No thats bullshit. There are very few restrictions, thats a copout response.
>inability of Blizzard to allow anything bad to happen to a playable faction.
Except the alliance had been shit on in every zone ever up to losing levelling zones and flightmasters.
>And don't say Theramore. What happened to Theramore is nothing but Jainas fault, if she had declared Theramore as a neutral power and refused to allow Alliance forces to use her lands as a staging point for the invasion into the Barrens than Garrosh wouldn't have had to nuke her beloved city into nothingness.
Because the fact that she killed her own father and king(something that no one called her on ever) wasnt enough proof she doesnt want to war?
Blizzard is just comically inept at writing a war story, they want everyone to be dindu nuffin good guys and "bring back war to wacraft"
>>46801991
>>46802001
this seems like an easy thing to solve and i never knew why blizz wont do it. want the two factions to be at war? ok put them at war. problem solved. solves all the weird problems of "theses guys are at war but not really but also they really are" nonsense
i mean its not like when the two factions "work together" they actually work together. actual players of the horde and alliance never work together for anything. why are they trying to present that side of the story in lore?
>>46801898
>>46801943
>>46801979
Keep your dick away from undead unless all of the following conditions are met:
A) She has to be an Intelligent being. If she's just a corpse being paraded around with magic, it's necro.
B) She has to have free will. If she's just a thrall bound to your will, it's some flavor of rape.
C) She has to be whole and humanoid, though this one is largely just personal preference I suppose. If you want to stick your dick in your rotting-corpse girlfriend... It's probably necro and rape so go fuck yourself.
>>46802095
It doesn't help the fact that blizz loves to have world ending issues pop up every 1-2 years and thus continuing the argument of "Why the fuck are we at war with the horde/alliance when we've been told the big bad super powerful XXXtreme villian can easily crush us?"
>>46801979
>yes but only old sylvanas. new sylvanas looks like a man to "fight" the patriarchy
They updated her model again?
>>46802046
WaifuThread3.5 OP here, and I can indeed confirm that Monara is, scientifically, a top tier waifu, as long as you're okay with sharing that ass.
>>46802095
>LOOK THEY ARE WARRING NOW
>snap back to status quo
>LOOK THEY ARE WARRING NOW
>peace again
>LOOK THEY ARE SIEGING ORGRIMMAR
>play nice kids - varian
>status quo
Fuck this shit. Either make it an actual war with actual losses, drama and shit or make it a grudging cooperation where you can actually work together from time to time.
The zombie plague was a great unintentional example. All zombies were able to communicate, horde and alliance dead were fighting their aganist their living together.
>>46802175
>>46802175
making her look more like she did in WC3 instead of a combat underwear model is apprently SJW censorship
>>46802180
>as long as you're okay with sharing that ass.
I don't have a choice. She's too much woman for any dozen men to satisfy.
>>46802180
>being a cuck
>>46802207
>>46802211
Oh, haha, yeah, no. I don't want to tap that. She spreads it out so much she probably has a dozen different STD's from multiple worlds.
>>46802201
>>46802175
Slyvanas has gotten a little. Well... Horrifying lately, so I'll just go for her little sister.
>>46802204
>random piece of unfitting leather
>pandering to SJWs
>ever acceptable
They even gave her a manface.
By the way, the tagline of the upcoming movie is "Is war really the answer" and most of it is about the frostwolf clan being dindu nuffin refugees. I really wish I was joking.
>>46802201
>>46802286
>Slyvanas has gotten a little. Well... Horrifying lately, so I'll just go for her little sister.
turning down ugly women is sexist anon. report yourself to a fema reeducation camp intimidatingly or your account will be perma banned
>>46801898
>>46802327
I wasn't really talking about her looks so much as her whole Hitler/Nagash/Arthas thing she's doing.
>>46802387
shes literally been doing that since shes been undead. are you this slow?
>>46801780
>agreeing to a short-term ceasefire is treason
Fucking hell, if that's the standard then what does that make people who actually surrender?
>>46802410
Yes, but by lately I meant since her death, so I think you may have perhaps missed the point, or perhaps I should have been clearer. She wasn't always an undead tyrant.
>>46802412
>unilaterally pulling your troops back while under attack and still under orders to capture the enemy base because the enemy commander is your friend isn't treason
>>46802108
a little rot never hurt anyone
>>46796538
>Wayne Reynolds art
oh dear lord.
at least it's not raymond swanland.
>>46802303
They gave her a high-cheekboned elf face rather than the round animu face people had been projecting onto her.
>>46802514
>while under attack
By who? It's a ceasefire, that means both sides pull back. Besides, it doesn't mean ABANDONING the conflict, just letting the troops catch their breath. Not all wars need to be fought like WW1 meat grinders.
>>46802666
How about giving her the face she had in the games instead.
>>46802711
after the Scourge was destroyed he meant to sit there until ordered to advance again but Thassarian backstabbed him and almost drove the Forsaken completely out of the city
>>46802738
![darkranger[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/ydEicH0.gif "darkranger[1].gif")
>>46802666
I think it's more the jawline and chin that does it. But then, they never manage to be consistent with how she looks, they can't even stick to one hair colour.
>>46802789
Yes you got my point, use that instead of a manface. What are you trying to say?
>>46802618
I forgot how Alexstrasza is all the Dragon Aspects. I hate this game now and I'll still defend it from idiots just because they're THAT WRONG.
>>46802756
Actually, it was the farmer militia that attacked without orders. Once that happened, though, the truce was broken and Thassarian had no choice but to follow through.
>>46802531
Ever heard of gangrene?
![IMG_0793[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/510F4l1.jpg "IMG_0793[1].jpg")
>>46803279
What about him?
>>46793479
I really liked how the Arakkoa handled the whole "light and shadow" thing, even if it's only supposed to be solar magic rather than "The Light". It was still cool how they went against what they normally did, with the whole cleansing light that burns away the ugly and impure contrasted with the sheltering shadows.
I want to see aspects of that presented if we ever get a fullblown Light Vs. Void storyline, rather than having it entirely without complexity. There should be fanatically puritanical elements on the side of the Light, similar to the Scarlet Crusade and High Arakkoa, and there should forces of Void which are relatively benign or helpful in their own way.
I mean, you wouldn't ask for "shadows to smile upon someone" if you thought they were entirely malevolent.
>>46804244
>and there should forces of Void which are relatively benign or helpful in their own way.
shadow priests are now Twilight cultists in Legion
>>46804358
They're clearly not and show no desire to bring about the end of the world or to worship the Old Gods, though they aren't afraid to learn from them or wield their sort of power.
If anything, they're all Forgotten Shadow cultists. It's Natalie Seline's book that serves as the offhand and she had Xal'atath before the Twilight ever took it. Makes me wonder about the circumstances of her death and how Benedictus ended up with it in his possession.
The most important point here is that the Cult of Forgotten Shadow in the current lore -isn't- a doomsday cult trying to bring about the end of the world. They see themselves as the counterbalance to the worshipers of the Light, doing their part to preserve the balance between those two forces.
Also because you literally recruit the Cult of Forgotten Shadows and Natalie Seline: http://legion.wowhead.com/quest=43390/forgotten-shadows
Man I never played a death knight past their starting zone, but they sound like they've got the coolest storyline in Legion.
>>46804848
mhm. They do the edgy thing far better than DHs.
>post yfw DKs btfo DHs in their own expansion.
>>46804848
You mean pointlessly edgiest.
>>46802666
>projecting onto her
>in-game model and heroes model is projecting
The only projection here is Metzen's seriously embarrassing guilt over himself.
>Daddy, why is she dressed like that
>Because I write for a series that started out by appealing to teenage boys and now appeals to 20-30 year old manchildren, honey.
>muh integrity in the series where I use Thrall as a fucking stand-in for literally me
It's actually not really that hard to make a passable female character for a story as simple as Warcraft's but they usually fuck it up. I think Jaina is one of the only major ones left after they fucked up using Tyrande in MoP. And just reversing the character design and playing it off as "sensible" is always hollow and you can always tell.
Hell if you ask me a classy full body outfit is usually hotter than GOTTA SHOW DEM MIDRIFFS AND TITTIES. I just get lost on stuff like the manface.
>>46805080
MoP-Tyrande was a return to her retarded WC3 self, unless you mean her jamaican sounding voice in SoO.
>>46805284
Nah I meant a 10,000+ year old military trained leader known for her wise leadership being lectured on year one warfare tactics by a middle aged human man in that one jungle temple scenario.
>>46801742
Your waifu adeath knight.
>>46805080
Jaina is one of the most blatant examples of them fucking up a female character
The only way for a female character to be a decent and interesting character in WoW is for her to be unimportant enough to escape the attention of the main story
>>46805342
In WC3 her tactics were pretty shit too. She spent most of those 10k year roflstomping stray Satyr or centaur who wandered too far north. Till WC3 she was used to having massive advantages over her foes.
>>46805382
does she keep the chapeau
this is important
>>46805387
Didn't save Ladimore or Watch commander Ebonlocke.
>>46802286
Isn't Alleria the older sister?
I thought Sylvanas was the bitter middle child.
>>46805342
The problem with the "10,000+ year old military trained leader known for her wise leadership" is that it was only ever an informed character trait, and in practice Tyrande tended to be pretty fucking stupid
>>46805435
It isn't a guarantee, obviously, but every important female character is screwed over by shitty writing, but only some of the unimportant female characters are screwed over in the same way
>>46805387
I mean that Jaina at least has motivations and reasons for the things she does that don't extend from being a stupid woman or being a strong independent woman who don't need no man.
She has some principles, they get trampled by bullshit and she snaps. Warcraft at the moment has trouble using a character without smashing them into the ground until they break(i.e. fucking Grom's resolution at the end of WoD, Tyrande being comically inept) so there's not really a high bar to cross.
>>46805410
>use the forest to conduct a guerilla war, bamboozling alliance and horde forces, waking the druids up again and freeing illydan.
>she is retarded
sure
>>46805481
You're probbably right, but new Jaina is such a fucking insult to anyone who liked old Jaina that I have a really hard time seeing her as anything but a screw up
>>46805547
Did they keep crazy jaina? Her realizing that the horde sucked was kinda fun.
because it does suck
>>46805491
Most of those were either rush missions or involved killing allies and potential allies.
It makes sense that she's all for rushing a fortified position because it has worked for her in the past.
>>46805635
Of course they kept her
But while it's nice to have someone who knows how shitty the Horde has gotten since Kosak fucked everything up, it probably shouldn't be the one character who pretty much exists to show unity is possible.
Or it shouldn't be if the writers gave a fuck about trying to present an interesting world instead of some means of establishing perpetual conflict
>>46805547
>>46805481
>>46805387
So I dropped out of WoW right as Cataclysm was coming to a close, can someone explain to me what exactly has happened to Jaina?
Before you tell me to go read a wiki, I probably will, but the wow wikis have always been grossly inadequate.
>>46805719
Well, in the writer's defense, it is World of WARcraft. A sudden longterm peace agreement would be a bit out of place.
>>46805731
Garrosh stages a fake invasion of THeramore, that tricks Baine into warning Jaina who calls in reinforcements. afer a few feints Garrosh pulls the horde back to the swamp and has some goblins and bloodelves drop a magical nuke on Theramore now that it has a ton of Alliance people in it.
>>46805765
Plenty of war without Red vs Blu.
>>46805648
ah yes, potential allies using arcane magic and drinking the blood of demons while defiling the forest. How dare she not welcome them with open arms.
>>46805731
Cataclysm ends. Jaina and a blue dragon grow close garrosh appears and steals an artifact from the blue dragonflight and uses it to supercharge a manabomb that blows up theramore. She gets angry, uses the blue dragon artifact to drown orgrimmar but thrall throws a curveball by telling her that there are civilians in orgrimar and she should think of the little orclets in the orphanage. She then uses the magic to kill another army that garrosh pulls out of his ass that is going to destroy king chin.
At the start of MoP she is beginning to mellow out. Then the blood elves break dalaran neutrality by giving garrosh ANOTHER doomsday weapon that anduin destroys with the power of friendship(tm). Jaina has enough and kicks the blood elves out of dalaran and makes it go full alliance (but not in the game because it would be unfair to horde players).
Then warcrimes happens and makes me realize that blizzard is batshit insane and christie golden is a hack.
>>46805731
Garrosh nuked Theramore. It turned most of her hair white and now she really, really wants to remove cucumber. She almost flooded Org in retaliation but her dragon boyfriend talked her out of it, then she tried to get Varian to backstab the horde leaders when they were gathered after beating Garrosh, and now in Legion she's blaming the horde for Varian dying and beating the war drums even harder.
>>46805719
In the hands of better writers it would be a pretty strong point about the setting that even somebody representing unity will be dragged down to everybody else's level and turned into one of the warmongers.
>>46805925
>that anduin destroys with the power of friendship(tm).
To be fair, it was literally made out of the power of anti-friendship, and he needed to gather the thing.
>>46805936
>wants to remove cucumber
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
>>46805993
to be even more fair blizzard went from bad to sad with that questline. I loved how Golden even removed the fact that the guy SAVING the blond little shit is the PC
>>46805925
>>46805993
>anduin destroys doomsday supernuke with power of friendship
Fucking what? Isn't he like 12? Is Blizzard seriously going full MLP? I gotta look this shit up.
>>46806041
Huh? They just don't mention us directly, that's been the norm for a while.
>>46806068
He's been aging in realtime. He was late teens in MoP, running around in the jungles smiting Sha and shit.
>>46805972
A good writer could have done something decent, but since the core idea of it is still bad, it doesn't matter
>>46806068
he was a pimply teenager at that point. Instead of being edgy he was a /mlp/ browser. If only bolvar could see his faggotry now.
>>46806187
>>46806093
Okay, so if everyone is aging in real time, shouldn't Jaina be in her early or mid forties? (also thrall and vol'jin and half the other important figures, but I don't know how much slower/faster trolls and orcs age relative to human).
So, I was looking into roleplaying a tauren shaman on WoW. Anything big I need to know about it?
>>46806264
yes. Jaina is a cougar. Also, mid to late thirties.
>>46806265
Orcs are the only good shaman.
>>46806265
Take herbalism. Tauren shamanism is a lot more about balance than the orcish version of asking the elements nicely IMO.
>>46806265
Tauren shamans are lorekeepers, you know the history of the Tauren and their myths and legends
>>46806347
>>46806372
I meant more about shamanism in general. My other experience with RP is a human warrior-turning-paladin, a pandaren light-convert, and I'm also making a blood elf monk because I only know blood elf and tauren lore among the Horde.
>>46806342
Mid twenties in WC3, we'll say 25, warcraft started six years after the end of WC3, so 31 then, it's been twelve years since that started, so 42-44 years old, depending on when her birthday is.
>>46806445
she was a year younger than thrall. So, at the earliest (they were all in their early 20s at that point) she is in the mid to late 30s.
>>46806428
respect the elements. Ask kindly for their aid make sure the balance between the two is not disturbed. Also>>46806385 Oppose industry for the most part.
>>46805719
>who pretty much exists to show unity is possible
There's only so much shit someone can take from the retarded assholes in the warcraft setting before they snap.
crazy jaina best jaina
>>46806445
I think Jaina and Arthas were moved to early 20s via retcon.
>>46806580
I agree, but that retardedf shit shouldn't have happened in the first place
Crazy Jaina is a reasonable character to exist, but the reasons why she exists should never have come to be.
Also sane Jaina is actual best warcraft character, she sacrificed her family for the sake of peace, that is conviction right there
>>46806644
gotta love some orc diplomacy.
>>46806658
it's almost like changing political and military circumstances made Theramore a valid and arguably necessary strategic target
>>46806658
How could anyone doubt Kosak's wisdom or insight into the setting?
Theramore should have been a neutral location from the very beginning of WoW
>>46806737
Thrall also should have genocided the Warsong, but then no one would have any reason to fight each other and we can't have WoW without muh werl pee vee pee
>>46806644
>but the reasons why she exists should never have come to be
No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.
#proudmoorewasright
>>46806695
yes and Orgrimmar was a valuable and necessary strategic target that got saved by writer's fiat. The alliance got a city and then promptly lost it without it even appearing in the game.
the destruction of theramore was completely justified, and so was the destruction of orgrimmar. Only one happened while blizzard used the excuse of
>it wouldn't be fair to the horde players
for SoO being more intensive.
>>46806737
>only important alliance character that survives Wc3
>she should be neutral.
>>46806834
It's in the middle of Horde territory, is garrisoned by people who fought alongside the Horde and its leader is on good terms with the leaders of the Horde
Why shouldn't it be neutral? Keep in mind we're talking about vanilla wow here, not Cata-wow
>>46806893
because the horde did invade theramore the last time, several people there have fought the horde before and the orcs aren't the most trustworthy of people.
>>46806834
Muradin technically survived.
>>46806695
>it's almost like changing political and military circumstances made Theramore a valid and arguably necessary strategic target
No, the answer is that Kosak a shit.
>>46806921
>because the horde did invade theramore the last time,
after they attacked them
>several people there have fought the horde before
and now there's no reason to
>and the orcs aren't the most trustworthy of people.
Thrall is
>>46806922
not as of vanilla.
>>46801408
Who are the best waifus and why are they Draenei?
>>46806921
I'm not saying there shouldn't be dissent, that's the whole point of making it neutral. A place which is neutral, but where Horde/Alliance conflict is at the forefront, rather than pointedly pushed aside like it is in goblin cities
>>46806981
cuteface trolls are the best waifus, because I am a gigantic faggot and a huge sucker for the cliche "cute girl who thinks she's ugly"
>>46806965
Thrall may be trustworthy but plenty of his underlings have no problem attacking Alliance with little to no provocation. This is a guy who let the whole Warsong/Sentinel conflict happen right on his back porch for no reason. I'm pretty sure he could have easily let Cairne or Runetotem negotiate some way for the Horde to get lumber without having to clear-cut a sacred forest.
>>46807007
I like that WoD added faces between "Cuteface" and "Hideous Hag-face" for trolls.
But I hate what they did to the leather X-Mask for undead females.
>>46806965
>Thrall is
no he isn't. He couldn't keep the warsong in check and made the night elves go alliance.
>and now there's no reason to
you don't know that. What we do know is that the horde did attack theramore and kill a high ranking alliance leader.
>after they attacked them.
people don't take kindly to being invaded either way. It would take generations before relations normalize, no matter how much jaina might crave thrall's spear.
>>46806986
Why would a central leader of the alliance that was the poster child for the Alliance from wc3 turn her place into a neutral zone? She remains an alliance character, first and foremost. By that logic Orgrimmar should be turned into a neutral zone because thrall is all about talking.
>>46806893
The people never stopped hating the orcs and with a good reason.
Daelin was literally the most racist strawman possible, just THIS short of yelling SIEG HEIL KILL ALL ORCS PRAISE HITLER and in the end he was COMPLETELY RIGHT about everything. Jaina commited patricide and regicide, the two most heinous crimes possible, sacrificed theramorians in skirmishes for years(which she ignored) for NOTHING at all and in the end she and varian both bitch out of actuall punishing the orcs. Literally NOTHING changes, none of the numerous grievances of the alliance gets adressed, no disarmament, not even the forsaken plague gets decommissioned.
They were holding the enemy CAPITAL. If the writers were too scared and bad to make something out of it then dont write yourself in a fucking corner and dont have a siege of orgrimmar. You cant just handwave things like this because completely logical and obvious questions appear why this event is just hanging in nothing, leading to nothing, impacting nothing. It would even lend itself to loads of new NPCs, story hooks and worldbuilding, like contasting the more tribal and peaceful shamans, occupation soldiers and more industrialized young orcs who forgotten clan ties and all over this horde and conquest shit.
"Good" thing it was overshadowed by the idocy of War Crimes(yes it actuall made me mad) and Garrosh Tannen's sports almanac.
>>46806981
I think it's something about a woman looking demonic yet being friendly and calm.
>>46807055
You can have conflict within a neutral city
I'd love to see the chaos of neutral Theramore, protest and counter-protest, the mix of acceptance, indifference, and thinly-vieled hatred towards Horde races. The alliance-leaning town opposite Ratchet's horde-leaning town
>>46807093
What exactly happens in War Crimes that has everybody's panties in a bunch?
>>46807046
Thrall literally doesnt understand orcs because he was raised by humans and his idol and hero was a bloodthirsty cunt whos son he spoiled. Thrall was in denial about the orcs being warlike agressive fucks the entire game. Its sort of sad in a way now I think about it.
>>46806981
>draenei best waifu
>implying
I think it's spelled Dragon.
>>46806981
Humans are the best. Simple fantasy farmsteads are great.
>>46807132
Don't blame Doomhammer for Thrall, he tried to show him what Orcs were supposed to be, Thrall just ignored half of what he was taught.
And in Thralls defense, his original plan was "Sail the Orcs to the other side of the world to avoid the humans" it's not his fault the Alliance followed.
>>46806981I like tauren women.
>>46807093
Again, vanilla wow, not cata-wow
Daelin was only right thanks to how Kosak wrote the Horde in Cataclysm, he was sort of right thanks to the Warsong, but that was okay because you need a bit of bad mixed in with good to make a faction interesting.
Speaking of which, why aren't Alliance factions allowed to have bad sides? Even back in vanilla unscrupulous people who were nonetheless loyal to their king/high priestess/high tinker pretty much didn't exist, the only bastards who were loyal to their faction were in the Horde, and that's boring as fuck
>>46807126
ratchet was a goblin town that acted as a port and a stop off point for low level quests.
Theramore was THE alliance city for people who had played WC3. It was the last bastion of humanity when for all purposes, the scourge had overrun the human heartlands. It had a large number of dalaran and Lordaeronian refugees and a lot of forces from different human nations working together to tame a harsh new land. For lack of a better word, It was the HUMAN HORDE.
Blizzard should have made theramore the starting zone for humans, and Jaina the racial leaders.
>>46807144
If you want ten thousand years of sloppy seconds from a Knaak self insert.
>>46807237
Ironforge was always my alliance city
But I prefer warcraft dwarves over warcraft humans, so that's probably just me
>>46807203
Can you honestly blame the Alliance for that, though. The Orcs certainly followed them to Lordaeron after they razed Azeroth.
>>46807234
>Speaking of which, why aren't Alliance factions allowed to have bad sides?
the only villains in the Alliance were literally black fucking dragons, while on the Horde side even the tauren have evil members
>muh faction bias
>>46807304
The alliance didn't follow the orcs, Jaina merely heeded the prophet's warning, like Thrall did
>>46807311
the black dragons were the masterminds who were making the humans their marionettes.
>>46807127
>instead of unceremoniously getting killed and getting his paraded in Stormwind Garrosh gets a trial
>the pandaren get juristdiction over him for some dumb reason
>he gets forgiven for everything by anduin
>everyone goes "we are all guilty :((( the horde was just a poor victim too :(((("
>taran zhu, just fucking taran zhu
>they are actually defending garrosh
>he doesnt get sentenced to death because he "cannot grow and learn" and peacenik shit like that
And a billion other turds that got overshadowed by these massive pieces of bullshit.
>>46807234
But they do have bad sides, except they have to act like racis' strawmen so the horde can be justified in... existing as a horde.
>>46807311
The grimtotem were never loyal to Cairne. The grimtotem were to Tauren what the defias was the humans
>>46807203
It's Medivh's fault for not warning them.
>>46807237
Then they should have avoided the faction conflict entirely at that point.
>>46807234
There were a few jerks who considered themselves loyal, plenty of the nobility probably didn't realize the harm they were doing to Stormwind.
>>46807311
>the only villains in the Alliance were literally black fucking dragons, while on the Horde side even the tauren have evil members
If you count the Grimtotem you need to count the Defias and Dark Iron.
>>46807249
You didn't really think that through, did you?
>>46807330
>that entire trial.
>baine has literally no fucking point.
>still bullshits his way out
I didn't expect this realism.
>>46807355
They should have just had Kalimdor vs Eastern Kingdoms
put the Night Elves with the orcs and the undead with the humans
>>46807345
>>46807355
Magatha Grimtotem was friendly under Thunder Bluff rep until Cataclysm and even gave and received quests. Not comparable to the Dark Irons or Defias at all
>>46807330
Gah, Thrall should have just ignored Varian and smashed Garrosh's face in at the end of MoP. Would have saved us an expansion.
>>46807330
>>he doesnt get sentenced to death because he "cannot grow and learn" and peacenik shit like that
Because the Celestials are idiots with overlong frames of reference.
So was that Warlock trainer Jergosh who was so obviously Shadow Council that it fucking hurt, and there were implied and possibly literal defias spies in Stormwind and the other towns IIRC.
And a Twilight's Hammer cultist in the water place in Ironforge, and some general Dark Iron sympathizers.
>>46807403
He should have just ignored Garrosh during BC, or sent him on a suicide mission in WotLK
But Thrall's biggest flaw is his hero worship of Grom, so that couldn't happen
>>46807330
The worst part is bigger characters in the lore were put to death for far less than what Garrosh did. If they wanted to have him get away to start WoD they could have handled it far better than a farce of a trial.
>>46806965
Thrall said Orcs changed. they didn't
Hence Thrall is not trustworthy, at all.
>>46807751
At the time, they had
Then the writers backflipped
>>46807234
Horde have being bad since WoTLK
It wasn't just Kosak, stop kidding yourself.
>>46796538
Wayne Reynolds is a pretty good fit for WoW.
Anyone know the source on the OP's image? It looks like a WoWTCG card but I'm not having any luck finding which one.
>>46807792
Even at the time they didn't
Else explain the Warsong in Ashenvale and the Burning blade cultist.
And Thrall know about it.
>>46807792
>>46807751
>but duuuuude we totally need WAR in warcraft right? :DDDDD
So lets turn the proud shamanistic guys taking shit from now one but trying to make themselves a new beginning into passive-agressive conquest hungry fucks who cry racism when the alliance strike back and cannot lose because that would upset the fans.
Last checked they turned azshara into a horde logo or some shit just because? As a guy who played over 5000 games autistically as orc in warcraft I cant tell how mad this actually makes me.
>>46807870
Nevermind, found it: Zari'zari.
A 2/3 for 2 with berserking.
>>46807891
I think that was a stunt from the Bilgewater goblins to buy favor.
>>46807891
>Last checked they turned azshara into a horde logo or some shit just because?
the Bilgewater Goblins did that to show their appreciation at being let into the Horde (and as an excuse to bully naga)
>>46807885
I feel like using the Burning Blade against Thrall is kind of a shit argument. There are quests to kill the fuck out of them every time they turn up. They're the orc's Defias gang.
>>46807923
>>46807934
More like an absolutely retarded blizzard stunt to appease fanboys.
>hey, we have not one but two absolutely great goblin island starting zones? you know, the ones that are insanely popular with the testers?
>uhhhh, lets make them migrate to somewhere I think so we could cut those :DDDDDD
>lets turn azshara, a zone beloved for being very scenic, quiet and mysterious(implying blizzard remembers the furbolgs guarding that door) into a patchwork of memes, references and poop jokes and shit goblin tech everywhere
>lets also make the night elves fighting on their homeland into comically inept mooks you cut down by the literal hundreds
>for teh horde xD
>>46808017
>and shit goblin tech
disregard gnome posts
report gnome threads
do not reply to gnomish posters
>>46808058
gnomes are just as bad as goblins, but at least they didn't fuck up a cool spot
>>46808058
It was the juxtaposition. The goblin starter and the goblin quarter in orgrimmar are pretty good, but space travelling pyschic raports dont belong into a sombre and quiet zone.
>>46807961
I am not saying its thrall's fault that there's is burning blade cult
I am saying Thrall knew his people are not out of the "Crazy kill everything" retarddom, and he still lied about the "we have changed" crap
>>46808186
But they had changed overall
Just because there's a few bad eggs, doesn't mean they haven't changed as a whole
>>46808186
Some of them have changed though. There's Orcs in the Argent Crusade and stuff.
>>46808186
Pre-Kosak the majority changed till they were about as cult prone as any other race.
Would a Horde without Orcs still be the Horde?
>>46808301
Obviously no.
>>46801710
>tfw you will never get captured by Sylvanas for forceful snuggles
>feels bad man
>>46808301
not at all
the real question is, what Horde was best? Old, New, Dark, Fel, Iron or Fel Iron?
>>46808396
New Horde still my favorite, it's got Tauren. Everything else is just varying colors of Orcs or stuff like Ogres and Trolls who are also in the New Horde.
>>46802201
That's a combination of shadows and color. The model they used for her looks like this.
>>46808396
I liked the WC2 one the most. Evan found an additional little bit for WoD which I promptly lost later because I thought it will be like WC2, plus the whole caveman steampunk aesthetic. Loved the train bosses as well.. Literally the entire selling point of the expansion pack was "what if the orcs never drank the kool-aid" and in the first major content patch they drink the kool-aid. The entire thing was just a shitty interlude to Legion. The entire alternate universe plotline just left dangling like the sad corpse of a clown who hanged himself. What was the point? We get to play cheerleader for thrall as he FINALLY kills Garrosh, we shit on the iron horde on every front while levelling and we resolve the whole plot RIGHT IN THE FIRST STARTER MISSIONS, WE BLEW UP THE DARK PORTAL THEY CANT REACH US ANYMORE HOLY FUCK, JUST GO HOME AND GET WASTED IN IRONFORGE, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WHY WOULD I WANT TO BUILD A VILLAGE HERE. Then the expansion pack ends with a boss we saw dead in WC3, the guy we fought the entire xpack declaring they are free and a guy who died in WC2 bringing back a guy who died in BC. Bravo Blizzard.
Oh look I'm ranting again.
>>46808524
Yeah, why not visit a universe based on the Alliance Ending to WC1 where the Horde was pushed back to Draenor and the Dark Portal destroyed? That would have been way more interesting.
>>46808563
>Rockard
>Stonard
lmao
>>46808504
Honestly, I don't see the manface even in the picture people keep posting.
>>46808396
New horde, it's the only one that isn't pure evil
>>46808594
because it is not there. Idiots on /v/ have fapped to too many anime girls.
>>46808563
I like the fact that the memorial to the dead of the first war is located where the temple of the damned is.
>>46808610
Grand Hamlet was rebuilt as Darkshire too.
>>46808563
>Blackhand has assigned you to an outpost in the Swamps of Sorrow. Your task is simple enough that even the War Chief feels that you are capable of it. Construct at least six Farms, so that we may keep our troops well fed and ready to do battle. Only a fool would leave his treasures unguarded, so you must also build a Barracks for the defense of these farms.
Burnt into my fucking brain.
>>46808655
I heard it in that semi high pitched voice.
Doomhammer really rose through the ranks huh?
>>46808563
>universe based on a civil war between the alliance states
>seeing all the unspoilt human nations
That would have been nice.
>>46808655
>yfw you realize you were Orgrim Doomhammer during the WC1 Orc campaign.
>>46808655
>>46808668
>>46808709
We've come a long way, baby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQITmMF-w5w
>>46808668
He only started out in such a crappy post because Gul'dan (rightfully) didn't trust him.
Hearing the mission briefings in the Peon voice is great though.
>>46808767
>>46808655
>deo gratias intensifies
Scorpions > spiders.
>>46808655
I loved that catapults would still one shot your guys even when you put god mode on.
>>46808563
>Stonewind
Well damn.
Also, I guess they just never rebuilt the Grand Hamlet?
>>46808820
They did, but after the corrupt energy from Karazhan swept through southern Elwynn Forest and turned it into the Duskwood it was renamed Darkshire.
>>46808820
Darkshire IIRC
>>46808797
To balance daemons being better than elementals?
Also looking back from WoW and forgetting about the Burning Steppes scorpions made me think they were special summons to the humans because they were not nqtive to the continent.
>>46808815
>mfw Daemons appear in my town.
>>46808820
darkshire nigga.
>>46807330
Wasn't there also a point where Garrosh proudly said he had no regrets about what happened and that, given the opportunity, he would gladly do it all again?
Darkshire and Karazhan are some of my favorite parts of WoW. The scale is so human and relatable. Just a village and its militia of common men and women trying to cope with magic shit. You're not even reversing it, you can't do shit about the darkening. You're just killing undead, worgen and ogre till your hands get sore and even then you don't really make a difference. Plus all the little NPCs just click together so well, exactly because they are completely inconsequential yet they are part of long storylines, like Sven. I even like the little call back to your previous adventures in westfall with the defias bandits.
Its a shame cata ruined this zone and Legion will ruin it even further with the idiotic "THE PEOPLES MILITIA WERE DEMON WORSHIPPERS ALL ALONG LMAO" tweest. Its feels like playing tabletop with a bad DM who desperately wants to raise the stakes but has no idea how.
>>46808923
Yes it was. He also nearly killed anduin before. I don't mind more peaceful characters, but that was just pure idiocy. Anduin is a fucking doormat.
>>46807330
>>taran zhu, just fucking taran zhu
I don't know why he even existed. He did nothing but ruin fun
>>46808961
Anduin was a teenager fighting a full grown Orc Warchief in his prime. He never had a chance. I mean this is the guy who took out Taran Zhu with his bare hands.
>>46808961
Cata duskwood wasn't TOO terrible. But it did sorra strip out a lot of the multizone quests.
>>46808985
>HURR ME NO RIKEY OUTSIDA NO NO
>U GON GET CORRUPTA BIG TRABBU
>gets corrupted
>>46809008
>cata
>Sven Yorgen
>turns Worgen
like poetry
>>46809020
You'd be a little pissed too if the Horde and Alliance showed up on your lawn and started wrecking shit.
>>46809020
>snownigger
>becomes furry
like pottery
>>46809008
the absence of multizone quests turned the game from an adventure to a themepark.
>>46809020
>the beginning of Jade Forest is the best expansion intro of all of them but WoD
>within 30 minutes, Taran Zhu shows up, tells you the cool stuff is ogre, and sends you to go find bear asses to make up for the heinous crime of having fun in a video game
Kosak played a little too much Spec Ops before writing MoP
>>46806981
>Pretty
>Exotic looking
>Cute accent
>Kind, loyal, and intelligent
>Nice ass and handlebar-horns
Draenei best wife material.
>>46809035
It was definitely a contributing factor.
Having ALL the tools to solve a crisis within the same zone cheapened the threat and made the world less interconnected.
>>46809072
>>46809035
Also going on the "Deliver this note to Darkshire" quest when i was nowhere near high enough level was hilariously scary, especially when someone summoned stitches. If i stayed on the road it was abomination city, and if I went off it a wolf would gank me.
>>46809072
It does make your character feel mind of badass though, when a lot of quests are "point character at problem, solve problem".
Multizone quests are a bitch when leveling up more then one character too. Especially in Vanilla where certain ones had you crossing the planet multiple times.
"Sorry Pamela Redpath, you get to stay screwed this time, Mama has to get ready for BWL"
>>46809108
>Pamela Redpath
[Blood of Heroes]
>>46809108
Eh, I realize they were a pain especially with mount prices and flightpoint raritt, but with those getting nerfed I feel they would be less annoying.
>>46809035
>the absence of multizone quests turned the game from an adventure to a themepark.
I agree, I loved how knowing all the hidden quests and knowing how to tie questlines together actually sped up your levelling quite a lot. Some of the quests were really over the line though, like killing that alterac yeti that started in thunder bluff, or that crazy shit the dwarf offered in southern westfall.
>>46809072
This too. I loved how the whole defias thing started it with some hooligans at a vineyard at level 4 and slowly developed into a whole defias arc that grew into the kidnapped king arc. You actually felt you are impacting thngs because the quests themselves were rarer and much harder to complete en masse. It just doesnt feel as heroic now. Class quests were also ballin as fuck. Every single paladin who played in vanilla remembers his Verigan's Fist.
Too bad cata shat on the entire questing thing. You will never finish a zone, ever because yout outlevel them and move on, much less an entire questline. Funnily enough this just makes levelling even more boring because everything is just a meaningless, directionless slog.
>>46809108
see, once they introduced the Dungeon finder, powerlevelers could abuse it and level up. Why did they have to go and fuck up the old world. They made the player badass>>46809106 but ultimately cheapened the entire story track because nobody cared about the story anymore. They were running dungeons because it was faster.
>>46809131
I forget the southern westcall dwarf but I remember the "Visit every location with trolls and/or windserpents quest you get in Tannaris that I think was the ZG attunement.
And the DS1-DS2 chain i regret not finishing pre cata. I wanted those summoning items.
>>46809131
>You will never finish a zone, ever because yout outlevel them and move on,
if you don't wear heirlooms each zone will almost perfectly level you through it's range, with about half a level of give on either side depending on the balance of kill quests vs fetch quests in that zone. The only problem is that you only get like one dungeon run ever 5 levels or this gets fucked up
>>46809108
>take quest
>have no idea where it will lead
best feel
loved how the ulduar attunement started with some random goblin quest to free 10 kidnapped dudes and grew into a huge questline ending up battling in the sky jumping from dragon to dragon and a god getting kidnapped.
>>46809131
verigan's fist will be mogged into the artifact for RP purposes.
>>46809155
the one exception to this is if you play a BE or draenei. Their quests were never rebalanced for the Cata leveling experience so if you do all of Bloodmyst or the Ghostlands you'll end up at about level 22 when it's time to start a 20 zone, but this eventually shakes out
>>46809155
Not really, even witbout heirlooms you overlevel. I skipped almost all of Arathi and most of WPL and am near perfect for WPL.
>>46809162
They're fun the first time, but subsequent times are just tedious. Especially stuff like attunements where you have to spend several hours and go through multiple dungeons before you can access the one you want. Stuff like the Karazhan attunement comes to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqRueU2Pj9s
>leveling today
literally funserver tier shit
>>46809231
>They're fun the first time, but subsequent times are just tedious. Especially stuff like attunements where you have to spend several hours and go through multiple dungeons before you can access the one you want. Stuff like the Karazhan attunement comes to mind.
>having to go on adventures in an MMO
>tedious
You fucking what. Some things are not meant to be confortable or simple or they will turn easy and meaningless
>>46809234
disgusting. I saw his video that showed him get to current expansion levels in 2 hours.
>>46809253
True, but I'd rather be doing social stuff like group PvP or raid instances. Quest leveling always felt like crap I had to do before I could access the content I wanted.
Note I'm talking about alts here.
So in terms of private servers how do ones running Wrath stack up as far as preserving the feel of the original game?
Do they give an authentic role playing experience?
>>46809350
Content is only valuable because its hard to get. Blizzard tried the whole convenience and making things "accessible" and just look how much of a clusterfuck it turned out. Plus how many raiding alts you are going to get?
>>46809363
No one really roleplays on pirvate servers and its only gay tranny vore fetish ERP on official servers.
>>46801074
BOY HOWDY, I SURE HOPE YOU LIKE GREEN FIRE AND DEMONS. ESPECIALLY FEL IMPSGod, I fucking hate fel imps
>>46809363
They do their best but it's never 100% authentic. Even on ones that try to be as close as possible there's still scripting differences, and since most have only a small team it takes awhile for problems to get fixed.
I haven't seen any private RP servers but I'm sure they exist.
>>46809391
>Plus how many raiding alts you are going to get?
Several, but that's cause it's my favorite aspect of the game. I liked stuff like heiooms, where you could use stuff you collected in your main to benefit your alts.
I agree with the rest of your statement though.
Why does it seem like /tg/ likes Koltira? Why the hype about about saving private Koltira? Why do people use kidnapping him as a card against Sylvanas? Dude's literally the most useless fuccboi in Warcraft history, being a glorified dildo is the most use that useless sack of shit could ever prove to be. I don't even get why does Thassarian wants to same.
Koltira a shit.
>>46809070
>Draenei tail-holding
I find these images so adorable
