New eyriss is a lot tonned down

Dem Slayers doe

I want one of two things to be overhauled in the rules. Either

A) Get rid of the forced order of activation shit and let me take an action and then move my guys

Or

B) Go to alternating activations instead of the boring ass IGOUGO shit.

Otherwise the new tweaks are looking pretty sweet.

>>46794207
Nice to see Trenchers get a bit of a buff.

>>46794932


More like Le bushwhackman

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>>46794932
Never gonna happen. Just play Malifaux or something.

As s new player, what factions would you recommend for warmahordes, I usually play armies that have a high emphasis on mobility at the expense of armour.

>>46795880
For mobility Legion or Circle would be best. You should wait for the new edition (MK3) in 2 months though.

>>46794773
>Assault with that crossbow and two weaponmaster melees
>disruption on every attack
>witch hunter
>reposition 3
>purgation

She's still plenty strong. Only difference is that she's not going to strip a key upkeep off something since they'll just eat the D3 damage instead of letting it fall off.

As a Legion player Purgation scares me. Tenacity on Shredders won't be a no-brainer anymore.

>>46795880

I agree with >>46795934 just wait till the new battle boxes are released and pic the faction you like from them. They have rules, dice, everything to start playing but an opponent and his dudes. And templates. Maybe grab a set of those.

But do whatever you like.

Mk2
Legion has strong caster and often have low model count strong beasts. Very much a strike first strike hard faction in general
Circle is about shenanigans and multiple attack vectors
Cygnar is often a "haley2+stormwallFTWLMAO" deal. Casters and jacks are great but infantry is usually mercenaries rather than in faction.
Cryx: get their battle box and then pretty much whatever models you feel like and you'll be winning as soon as you really grasp the game mechanics. Very forgiving.
Protectorate of menoth is the "NO" faction. They have tricks that tell other players to eat a dick. Best faction (CoC not a real faction)to run jacks. Also fire.

I'm not familiar enough with the rest.

>>46795934
Thanks, I was considering staring as cryx, I like the models and the undead theme, but was wondering if they have the high mobility that matches my play style.
What are the major differences between cryx and legion of everblight?

>>46796291
Legion loves ignoring all the rules and alpha-striking really hard. Cryx enjoy debuffing their opponents and the swarming them to death. They are both fairly mobile on the tabletop, though neither measures up to Circle in that regard.

>>46794207
Mk3 is looking shit.

almost all the stats are exactly the same except for minor changes.
trenchers are still pow9 in melee
and eiryss gains weapon master
So in other words, infantry can still wreck WJs just like before.
So that nice looking Slayer, this is probably the first and last time anyone looks at it, let alone uses it on the table.

So we're forced to use more WJs but they still don't hold a candle to infantry.
So why take slayers when i can take 3 units of full banes + ua ?

>mk3 is everything changes it all stays the same edition

Yeah i'm a bit let down by this lacklustre tweaking.

You think trenchers look good? what about the other units that were good before: they will be even better, so again, no one will use trenchers.

>>46796291
In MKII, Cryx is very infantry heavy, while Legion is beast heavy.

>>46796436

Is this a quote from the PP website

So Im new to Warmachine, I have a Cygnar box set but haven't used it yet.

What's going on with the new editions Are they going to start putting assembly guides in the kits?

>>46796436

Eiryss got nerfed in her old role of removing focus from a caster, now she's dangerous but has to charge to really get dangerous.

Trenchers got buffed because they were bad, why would they buff banes

5 point slayers with auto focus look great.

You play khador don't you.

>>46796436
>one POW 9 weapon master
>ALL INFANTRY ARE WEAPON MASTERS SHIT EDITION SHIT GAME

How do you extraolate that one high profile solo having Weapon Master means that infantry are still great. You even complain in the same post that the infantry unit we've seen is shit.

Which is it?

>>46796515

Hopefully but for jacks they should be pretty simple to figure out, I think with the plastic jacks you can't even put the legs in the pelvis the wrong way anymore

>>46796436
Trenchers are pow11 on the charge iirc.

I mean the slayer still has an awful grid and isnt def14, but it gets a free focus and has a 1" reach and its a point cheaper wich isnt nothing

>>46796436
What little we know about MK3 is RADICALLY different from MK2. Now stop whining you big baby.

>>46796720

Yes trenchers get two pow 11s on the assault, one boosted. It's not shabby for their new price range

>>46794932
Never gonna happen.

>>46796176
Assault someone and then punch other dudes in the unit. Make the enemy caster take up to 3d3

>>46795784
Morty is going to be freaking awesome

>>46796436
>POW 9 weapon master

Oh no, so scary.

That and weapon master may function differently. We just saw the symbol. It might be not be simply adding another dice. Hell, might be something like add a dice, drop the lowest.

And if it is there's nothing stopping them from dumping the POW of the weaponmasters.

It's looking like they want the game to be more warjack/beast heavy. Infantry that trivially remove high-armor large bases probably won't be around in high numbers.

>>46794207
>Points halved equals a full unit of Nihilators
>Same DEF/ARM
>Gunfighter
>Tough
>RAT fucking 6

Seriously? Trenchers just casually got buffed up to being as good as Skorne's best option. If Nihilators don't get a 2.5" or 3" range on their greatswords I will be PISSED.

>>46796579
>You play khador don't you.

Don't lump us all in with that retard.

I play Khador and I'm pumped as fuck for Mk3.

>>46797070
They'll be rng 2

>>46797070
Oh not you again. Skorne has 2 bad units. If you hate it so much, fuck off to another faction.

>all these opinions.

Jesus christ people, calm the fuck down. We have so little knowledge of how any of these rules work. Snacking and kill shot got changed on the MK alone, we have no idea how any of these shit actually work. Currently the rules mean nothing due to lack of context.

>>46797114
>>46797070
Remember kids, playing Skorne is suffering. Embrace the pain and accept your fate, just like a true Skorne would

>>46797165
This. It finally came to me after pinning a unit of Nihilators with a non-automatic, blunt drill.

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>>46797165
>Line up the perfect Berserk arc on 4 troll grunts
>First one makes the tough roll
>My actual face

>>46794207
I feel like 1" of reach is a little excessive for small based imfantry.

>>46797303
They have really long rifles attached to those bayonets. If they just had regular swords or knives they'd only have .5

>>46797303
Well it's not a general rule. The only example we have for that yet is the Bayonets.

>>46797303
It's on a stick.

You are gonna tell me that a bayonet should be comparable to a knife?

>>46797303

Yeah trenchers op fuck those guys with their short spears that also shoot bullets

>>46797303
I'm thinking that they are getting reach 1 from their Bayonets, shorter range than a spear but still longer range than a knife, see Eyriss.

>>46797070

>Gunfighter

That's the CRA symbol, not gunfighter. That's been there.

>>46797303
You act as if no small based infantry in the game have actual 2" reach.

Trenchers seem like they might be pretty decent now.

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>>46797368
>>46797353
>>46797349
>>46797348
>>46797346
>>46797339
Well fuck that guy

Can't wait to see what they do with Trencher commandos, so fucking hype for Seige with a bunch of jacks plus a platoon of Trenchers.

>>46797439
>Can't wait to see what they do with Trencher commandos
I'd imagine they get Reach 1.5"
Because long stick and more skilled at using it than the regular guys with a long stick.

>>46794207
Holy crap units are FA:U. Time to build a list with 40+ trenchers

>>46797467
Yeah, that would be a lot of fun with all those 1.5" widgets flying around. Not going to happen.

>>46797467
Commands don't have bayonets, they just have knives and carbines. If anything they'll have a melee range of .5

>>46797485
never
ending
wall
of
s m o k e
m
o
k
e

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>>46797303
>That small hope that bane thralls get 1" reach

>>46797564
>Walk through it
>Stab the cunts

>>46797566
They are gonna need to go either extremely premium or lose something major to allow that.

Dark shroud on 1 inch is just really strong

>assuming anything works the way it does now

>>46797355
But see Skorne players don't know what guns are.

>>46797566
I hope Bane Thralls get nerfed into obsolescence. Fuck those things.

0.5 reach with a pow 8 non-weaponmaster would be good start.

>>46797566
You'll probably end up throwing them in the trash
I work for PP
sorry

>>46797594
>>46797566
>>46797609
They'll probably be .5 reach and lose weapon master. At FA:3+ and with their stupid UA also being the same FA Banes are going to get kneecapped by the nerf bat

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>>46797609
>0.5 reach with a pow 8 non-weaponmaster

>>46797620
No you don't.

>>46797656
They have Dark Shroud...

>>46797601

They have those hairdryer needle things, with CRA. Nobody takes them though, because...

Early MK II thought CRA was super good for some reason, most units that have it are considered overcosted. I con only think of Nyss Hunters and WGI that have it and are taken, and CRA isn't the main appeal of either of those units.

What does "thanks obavnik" mean?

>>46797665
Prove it.

>>46797887

it's the "thanks obama" meme with obavnik substituted

FUCK now I might have to start Cygnar again, and I just sold all my non-Merc Cyg models last year.

I'll wait for Stormblade stats but fuck those Trenchers are tempting me.

>>46797594
BLT has a 2" dork shroud.

>>46797609
Bane thralls are good, but they are slow and need a mat fixer. I actually cut them down to a min unit with no UA in my Lich2 list in favor of another unit of bane knights.

>>46796802
are you guys stupid?
New mk3 trenchers have assault, so one pow11 shot, then one pow9 charge attack.

>>46798530
It's ps 11 on the charge. look at the damn card ya git

>>46798530
Pow 11 Charge. They have Brutal Charge.

>>46797485
Where does it say units are FA:U?

the insider says unit attachements are the same FA as the unit they go with.

>>46798597
Go look at the trencher card, it is FA:U

>>46798597
He's probably looking at the Trencher card, they're now FA: U instead of their previous 2.

I mean, whatever, if you want to bring a billion Trenchers more power to you, 13/13 bodies with Pow11s are only going to get you so far.

>>46798655
More like piles of pow 20 shots and never ending smoke walls.

>>46798714
>More like piles of pow 20 shots
One per 10pt squad, at RNG10.

>and never ending smoke walls.
They still can't smoke and walk back out of it, they need to do that to make smoke wall bonkers.

>>46798783
You have more than one unit, they're FA:U. One hangs out in front to create a smoke wall after all of the other units shoot. If they come and engage your smoke unit you assault them with one of the other four units you brought or just shot then in the face.

If you're worried about range Snipe is still a thing in Mk3

Does anyone have The Malcontents: Into the Wild or Wrath of the Dragonfather from Skull Island Expeditions to share?

>>46798906
This.

I posted this a few threads ago. Has otehr books but not those two.
http://www52.zippyshare.com/v/lQKVwmI5/file.html

>>46799045
Thank you. Unfortunately I already have the other ones. But I appreciate the help.

>>46797609
Bane Thralls by themself are very good but not too broken, they hit hard and are nearly impossible to shoot off the table, but they are still a elite melee unit with MAT6 SPD5 and no reach, it the Tartsartus with the Curse that make them stuipid, turning them into effectively MAT8 SPD7 monsters.

>>46795784
Malifaux has some beautiful models but I hate every goddamn rule in that game. Glad I can use my Death Marshals for Pistol Wraiths.

>>46799159

Expect Tartarus to get changed as fuck

>>46798530


Khador players, ladies and gentlemen

>>46799209
Curse is kind of the only thing that makes him worth his salt. I, personally, play him very conservativly untill the late game so thresher and stealth are basicly irrelevant

>>46800050
Tartarsauce is pretty dumb. Auto hitting on curse, being incredibly hard to remove, and creating more dudes is just just stupid. That and 30 Bane Knights and Cryx's other crap just make him an incredibly frustrating piece

I for one am thrilled to see get taken out back and beaten with the nerf bat along with Legion and Circle.

What factions tend to have a low model count?

>>46800201
I'm not sure what they would change about Circle without making the whole house of cards collapse. I think they might need some adjustments on their casters and to bring up their shitty warlocks but as far as units, maybe something making non-bloodtracker living infantry relevant and possibly something to make the wolds good again.

>>46800372
Legion/Circle

>>46800372

Legion or circle. Maybe trolls.

My 35 eKromac list has less models in it than my 1 combat group Infinity army. Think about that.

>>46795784
So casters are suppose to have about 28-30 jack/beast points, and Slayers are 10 points. I wonder if the new battle boxes are going to be 0 point armies.

>>46800495

That is exactly what they stated. All battle boxes are 0 point battle groups

>>46800495
>We need to make jacks playable, how do we go about it?
>Make sure everyone can take three for free.
Brilliant, PP.

>>46800570
It's a way to get jacks on the table, even if they might be bad

>>46800372
Low model count generally means going heavy on jacks or beasts. Under the current rules that's much more viable with beasts than jacks, but it looks like the new edition is aiming to change that.

>>46800570

>more jacks on the field
>who all get free focus
>casters focus efficiency increases the more jacks they have
>jacks themselves seem to be cheaper and the non reach ones have 1 inch reach now

Yeah I'd say that goes a long way towards making them viable

>>46800201
I will gladly take a nerf if it means neutering every control feat in the game and mass dispersal of anti-upkeep.

O

>>46797059
>>46796436
Going to point out point costs. Slayer is 10 points. Same price as 6 Trenchers. Eyriss is only 4 points cheaper.

Now let me ask you. Are 6 trenchers killing a slayer? Is Eyriss? Well if the Slayer is getting charged (which it may not) then Trenchers need 7s to hit and dice -6 on damage (charge attack and gun shot). Eyriss needs 4 to hit with the crossbow which will be -7 to damage and 6s to hit her melee swings. Her bayonet is dice -11 and her saber is dice -10 but she has weaponmaster. Every non-charge attack needs above average damage rolls to deal damage to the slayer. So you need charges.

Can the slayer deal with the trenchers or Eyriss? Well it's run engagement threat range is 13" now. As I've already shown once in melee the slayer should be pretty tanky against them. The charge threat range of Trenchers is 10" and Eyriss2 is 10.5". Slayer's charge range is tied with the Trencher and he can definitely run ontop of them.

Yet that's only part of the equation and a fairly MK2 way of looking at it. Due to Power Up that Slayer can be running without straining the caster at all. In fact if they just want to kill Eyriss2 the slayer just needs a boost to hit since his damage roll is dice +4. Against the trenchers he can just buy an additional attack and try to kill 4 guys a turn.


I'd argue that it's a very good sign that stats are close to the same. MK2 wasn't so imbalanced we needed huge stat changes across the board. This shows that PP is taking a careful hand to clearer ability text and tweaks.

Hopefully Ret get some nice buffs.

>>46797896
My uncle works for Privateer Press and he's never mentioned you.

>>46799190
Wow, everything?
Nothing in particular?

>>46800971
Probably because we're having an affair

>>46801517
I'm a Press Ganger and I think Malifaux is a wondeful game and I wish more people played it instead of that boring Guild Ball game

>>46801609

>like Guild Ball
>like Malifaux
>like Warmachine
>everyone from each group gives me shit for playing the other two games

I JUST WANT TO PLAY GAMES.

On that note, the next few months is going to be fucking torture to my wallet.

>>46798491
I started this game with cygnar bb, archduke runewood, swordknights and ua, and stormblades+ua+ wa. I loved the storm blade models and was so heartbroken as it became apparent that I just couldnt make them work. Not only do i have to shelve tge models i like but i need to field dudes outside my faction to function properly?

Traded away all the infantry for legion models. Kept the battle box though with the hope of being a pressganger or just having an opportunity to demo the game.

After seeing the mk3 stats, I totally feel the same way. I'm holding my breath for stormblades, but trenchers are looking promising enough that I can envision a future in which I try running pure cygnar again.

>>46796326
>Legion loves ignoring all the rules and alpha-striking really hard.
>Cryx enjoy debuffing their opponents and the swarming them to death.

can you/someone do a rundown of all factions like this? a couple friends are trying to get into the game, but I can't really sum up all the factions for them like this.

>>46796436
>You think trenchers look good? what about the other units that were good before: they will be even better, so again, no one will use trenchers.

>They showed us some models that never see tournament play are getting buffed in the new edition.
>Therefor all models are getting buffed, including those that were already powerful.

>>46801721
Maybe I'm just lucky but the players of those three games in my area all agree the others are cool and are united in their hatred of other game systems. Except Infinity, they're ok too.

>>46802064
Enjoy your disappointment on that assumption

>>46802064
Here's what they'll do:
Buff models that don't sell well
Nerf models that already sold

>>46802409
That's the timeless problem. You must continually gain new players or encourage existing players to purchase more. The means for the second is almost never through added value like additional game modes or new, fun and viable synergies. It's also to involved to I've of casuals like a ccg. That is one thing I like about Malifaux, more models usually means more options.

so Mountain King got bulldoze. do you think all gargs/colossals, or all huge bases are gonna get it?

>>46802695
if they were, it'd probably become a colossal rule on the colossal rule card.

>>46802409
Man, if only that were true from Mk1 to Mk2.

Bane Knights were great in both games.

>>46802695
I'd bet all or most Gargossals are gonna get it. Battle engines maybe, but a lot of them are fairly dedicated gun platforms.

>>46802736
probably not, since MK now has Pathfinder on its card, just like the Slayer has Construct on its card.

>>46802736
also the MK has RNG2 fists now - I mean it used to have it, but the card now specifically says it does.

>>46802409
Already off track for that, Doctor Doom.

Eiryss2 is still fucking amazing, she just can't singlehandedly shit all over someone's entire gameplan anymore.

She just went from "11/10 auto-include in 4 factions" to "9/10 probably include in 4 factions", oh noooooooooo.

>>46802409
That's more like the GW approach (buff new, nerf old). PP is probably assuming that models that don't sell well are that way for a reason.

Ideally they want it ALL to sell, particularly as they move to plastic and can no longer simply melt down stuff that doesn't sell.

>>46794932
That really isn't going to happen and I'm happy it won't happen.

I like IGOUGO. It allows me to set things up and pull off cool combos. Alternating activations doesn't allow me to do that since I can't predict what will happen more than 2 activations ahead. Neither IGOUGO nor alternating activations are bad, they are just different. Play a different game if you don't like IGOUGO.

>>46802997
She's trash for 6 points

>>46803038
You're a fucking dumbass.

>>46803038
m-muh d3 backlash

>>46803075
"Oh? You shot my model with an upkeep? I'll take a little bit of damage to keep it. Nice 6 points."
"Oh, you charged my model and are hitting it three times? Sure, I'll keep the spell up and take 3-9 damage, no problem. Now I'm going to retaliate and easy kill your 6 point model on my turn. Nice 6 points."

She only threatens casters which value life as a mechanic like Morvannah2 and Harbringer.

>>46803167
If they don't remove the upkeep, she gets the purge bonuses.

So she's a 4 dice weaponmaster against upkeep casters, and they're taking the extra d3 damage for every hit.

>>46803026
Third time's the charm, anon

>>46803227
Oh no, my poor trooper model will die :(

>>46803291
Means a lot less against a trooper, yes.

But when it's your caster, or something important, it's a much bigger deal.

>>46803331
If you're stupid enough to let eiryss get a pulse on your caster, sure she becomes good. But it'll only happen to bad players who can't position.

>>46803368
Because no caster has ever been shot by Eiryss.

>>46803368
Because Ret doesn't come with a shitload of ways to move your caster or their own models in non-linear ways.

It's easy to say "Players who get assassinated are bad" but reality on the table isn't always so clearn. The best way to prevent it is to kill her, which people were already doing, so she's just as much of a priority.

Plus, she has some pretty insane applications against spellcasting lists like Runes and the like.

>>46803434
>ret
Okay, now I know you're just shit posting.

>>46803482
And you're an idiot.

Ret has always had an assassination focus, mostly half hearted and not always done well.

New edition might expand on that, and Eyriss2 seems like she'd fit in super fucking well.

Just because Mk2 Ret are bad doesn't mean Mk3 Ret will be, dumbass.

>>46803291
>>46803368
>>46803482
You are an actual idiot

>>46803434
As a Circle player who crutches on Druids of Orboros hard, my initial reaction to her is this: "well fuck me in the ass with your crossbow, senpai".

She's also way better for general solo hunting now.

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>>46803026
I don't mind IGOUGO when retaliation and counter play are possible. It's when "IGOU- oh wait GG" happens that I start to groan and ask why I play.

That's only increased as MKII went on, so I'm happy for the reset provided they reign in all the bullshit and make it so I feel like I actually play a fucking game on even terms.

Alternating activations I can't wrap my head around and that's why I suck at Guild Ball/XWangz.

>>46794932
>A) Get rid of the forced order of activation shit and let me take an action and then move my guys
I wouldn't be shocked if they did this, but I wouldn't expect it.

>B) Go to alternating activations instead of the boring ass IGOUGO shit.
That's really unlikely. It would be too fundamental a change.

>>46803731
>It's when "IGOU- oh wait GG" happens that I start to groan and ask why I play.
If that's your problem then you probably just sucked and didn't have the gumption to git gud.

Then again, maybe that's part of their "reduce the barrier of entry" theme with this edition. You'll still probably get clubbed like a baby seal, but you'll at least have the illusion that you could have escaped it.

>people already shitposting and calling models trash
> it's only mid-April

This is gonna be a long wait boyos

>>46802409
You remind me of a guy at my LGS who's convinced PP is going to turn into GW any time now.

>>46803900
People have been banging that drum since Mk1, it's part of the underpinnings of the Doom Cycle.

>>46803900
If you don't think theme forces were a way to cash in on shitty models not selling you're wrong.

>>46803968
The number of tier lists that actually improved shitty models to super playable was pretty low.

A lot of the tiers were inoffensive as hell, really. Only a rare few got crazy. Hell, some of the big tiers were in the game for years before something made them good.

>>46796436
THE STUPID, IT BURNSSSS

>>46803968
>PP tried to make less used models more playable

Those greedy bastards. How dare they!

>>46804014
Just because all of them weren't 'good' doesn't mean they weren't designed to sell product.

>>46804084
EVERYTHING is designed to sell product, because PP is a company that sells things. Or were you under the impression that they were a charity?

Just because a company tries to sell things successfully does not make them GW. You seem to have a mistaken impression of what exactly makes GW Literally Hitler.

>>46804135
I never once claimed they were like GW. GW has stated they're not a game company, they're a model company. That's quite different from PP.
Stop projecting.

>>46803814
I dont care if it's a gitgud situation. It takes 2 hours to play the game...quickly.

If I've been dead in the water because a mistake I made the first thirty minutes of the game I'll ask for a rerack. If it's some sort of fundamental counter or skew that is insurmountable with my list then I just pack up and go home.

I don't mind "GitGud" games. I just mind when the games take all evening.

I liked the idea of melee weapons having ranges in both Malifaux and AoS, so it's nice to see it added to or expanded in Warmachine and Hordes as well.

>>46804163
>It takes 2 hours to play the game

Play smaller point games. Most 35 point games are over in 30 minutes or less.

Or drink a beer and debate Star Trek and whether or not you should date a girl who comes broken and build her up, or spend the time sifting the rubble to find one who isn't broken to begin with.

It's a game, friendo. Enjoy yourself, have fun with your friends. If you're not having fun, ask yourself why.

>>46804298
Smaller point games almost immediately become a horrible skew smash that isn't fun at all.

>>46804156
>GW has stated they're not a game company, they're a model company.
As if the game doesn't drive the model sales.

>>46804376
So, again, play with friends. Yeah, eDenny is a bitch at 35 points, so play someone who brings Scaverous or something. Or proxy a dumb/hilarious list. Go wild. Have fun.

>>46803560
Shredders should be scared too. Having a Shredder put Tenacity on itself is going to be a death sentence.

>>46804376

Well, if you don;t like 2 hours games, you shouldn't be playing wargames.

It just is what it is. Wargames take time.

Maybe try a smaller game like Infinity.

>>46802998

>That's more like the GW approach

More like an unfounded belief that /tg/ holds.

There were multiple 6th Edition 40k codices where old units people had enough of were great and new units were garbage.

>>46804402

Nobody is arguing that GW's policies aren't fucking retarded.

Their actual stated policy however is, in fact, "We are a model company, not a game company."

That is basically their response to having a horribly unbalanced game. Just tell everyone "hey, you don;t like our shit game? Fuck it, we don't care. We're here to sell models, not make a good game."

>>46804163
2 hour game is probably not going to be a thing anymore. Pre measuring is gonna make the whole "Ah...... I'm not sure if I'm in... I think... I can reach, let me sit here for 10 mins thinking about this" not a thing.

Unless it's something like Troll on Troll mirror match, games are not going to take that long given that they are starting to get rid of a lot of non-combat dice rolling.

>>46804543

True but I would also argue that a lot of that is putting out fires from bad PR.

GW basically going back and "apologizing" for being shit heads by making an attempt at balancing the game.

Still, who gives a fuck about GW in a Warmachine thread?

Fuck it, Mark 3 looks fucking good. The sky isn't falling and I am excited even if I know some good stuff I liked is going to get nerfed.

>>46804586

Eh. I think it will be "different" but not "better."

I think you are going to have just as many weird pedants in normal (non-timed) games who measure absolutely everything to try and "set up" a perfect turn. Then they are going to get flustered when you move a way they didn't like and remeasure everything.

However, that said, it will make most competent players faster like you said. Most of those guys however were already good at eyeballing distances so odds are they won't be that much faster than they already were. They will just verify movements slightly quicker.

>>46804586
They're also encouraging more jacks. Which cuts down on the number of models and dice rolls.

>>46804586
It won't make that big of a difference, maybe 10-15 minutes one way or another. My group has been using premeasuring since they confirmed it was going to be in Mk3 and our average game time is down by less than 10 minutes right now.

Iffy range isn't the thing that puts experienced people in the tank most of the time.

>>46804626

It wasn't an attempt to put out fires or apologize, it was people on /tg/ blatantly ignoring the evidence right in front of their faces because it contradicted their beliefs.

Anyone who played Magic a long time ago in a competitive manner learned that just because you design the game, doesn't necessarily mean you know how to play the game or what is good.

>>46804716
It's going to settle arguments a lot quicker for lot of the distance based things, especially things like energizer where you declare intent quickly and opponent and you can come to consensus on whether the plan succeeds or not.

The thing is that weird pedantic assholes are always going to be that. What the rules encourage is easy for noobs and cleaner for professional play across the board.

I would consider 80% of the games being improved an improvement even if 20% is absolute dogshit

>>46804716
>I think you are going to have just as many weird pedants in normal (non-timed) games who measure absolutely everything to try and "set up" a perfect turn. Then they are going to get flustered when you move a way they didn't like and remeasure everything.

That's why I believe playing on clock should be encouraged as the standard, even if there was some sort of casual clock variant that doesn't necessarily rape you like tournament-standard deathclock or timed turns can.

>>46804839

Oh, I'm not arguing against pre-measuring. I love it.

I just think, like >>46804737 said, it won't be that much if an x-factor in changing game speed.

It will be overall better for the game regardless though.

>>46804298
>whether or not you should date a girl who comes broken and build her up, or spend the time sifting the rubble to find one who isn't broken to begin with.

13 years and a kid later with the former and after her just staying broken and taking me down with her, the latter sounds intriguing.

but I digress.

When I started playing it took me a long time to get through even 15 point games as I overthought my tactics to try avoiding the inevitable year one of being curb stomped. now I just kinda breeze through. I do plan accordingly but often if the situation is sub optimal I'll say fuck it, all in and let the dice decide. its kinda freeing to just chill and know in your heart that its just a game.

>>46804913
I agree that even in casual games a clock should be in place. too many times chained to then table with someone who takes waaay too long to commit to his turn and fucking go.

>>46805380
Agreed.

My PG is the worst at it.

He'll hyper analyze and hum and haw for way too fucking long before actually moving anything. I've even seen him use his phone calculator for trig.

Not sure a 25 point casual game needs that level of thought. Especially since we chose 25 points to play a faster game.

>>46805845
>tfw get analysis paralysis and have to apologize to my opponent for taking so long
So glad pre-measures are coming.

Supposedly tomorrow's insider will have to deal with minions.

>>46806146
And Mercs.

And not Supposedly, Soles said it would be about it.

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>>46806165
Well that's good. That subject interests me greatly.

I hope they sell the mk3 cards as singles through their store or something.

I don't want to have to buy a full deck for the handful of mercs I have.

>>46806228
>being a power gamer
>not playing pure in faction
you brought this upon yourself

>>46804734
>They're also encouraging more jacks. Which cuts down on the number of models and dice rolls.
Nigga what? We're getting MORE Warjack points which means taking MORE Warjacks. Which means MORE models. Plus everything being FA: U but attachments and a few other things.
PP is a company just like GW. Bigger points, more models, more money. The 75 pnt games they were having players do at IG was only the beginning.
My body is ready for 200 pnt games to become the standard.

>>46806270
Owning Tactical Arcanist Corps, Kell Bailoch, Madelyn Corbeau, Maximus, and Feralgeist isn't exactly power gaming.

>>46806270

He only has a handful, so he can't be a power gamer.

Hell Cygnar is nearly all Mercs when powergamed and that's a fuckton more cards.

>>46806339
Are you retarded?

The new standard point level means that while you have more points to spend on jacks, you have less to spend on infantry.

Most Warmachine side lists are looking at losing 4-5 models on average.

>>46806368
Plus, remember that it's the playerbase, not PP, that dictates point level standards in tourneys.

50 point games wasn't really decided by PP.

>>46806368
>this

PP is raising the average army point value because avg points for everything are more expensive in general for balance purposes.

You know how those new battleboxes look like around 15pt armies? Well they cost 0 pts with new battlegroup value which means just that amount of shit is worth around 25-30 points.

>TL;DR armies are getting smaller not bigger

>>46806228
They probably will eventually, they currently sell card singles.

Not sure it'll happen on day 1 though.

>>46806339
>double everything's points as a base for new point values
>current standard game is 50 points (6 WJ points on average)
>new standard game will be 75 (28? WJ points on average)
So double 50 is 100.
With roughly 105 being the MK2 game /including/ jack points, this simply means more of your army will be dedicated to warjacks, and less to massive amounts of models.
It'll be like you're playing a 37 point game, but with 15 WJ points.

>I'll bet they took out things like light cav moves and replaced them with reposition 5 or something.

>That is a good bet.

>That assumes Rate of Fire means the same thing, which it does not. The rule book now defines ROF as the number of initial attacks a model can make with the ranged weapon during its activation.

>In the new edition, models can only spend focus/fury or be forced to make additional melee attacks. A model can only buy additional ranged attacks if it has a rule enabling it to do so.

>Manticore ROF changed to D3

>Boosting with focus/fury/force remains
unchanged

>The ability that allows you to buy additional ranged attacks is called Reload [XXX]. The XXX being the max number of attacks that a model can buy or be forced to make.

>>46806394
That's mostly true, but given what we've seen I see no reason for the playerbase at large to diverge from the new 75. The % of your force that is compulsory battlegroup has a little more than doubled, but Hordes was taking that much battlegroup stuff or more anyway.

>>46806440
>15 free pnts
>More WJ points confirmed so more like 20 or more
>40 pnts of free jacks
>Plus 100 pnts of infantry + jacks + stuff
>Trencher infantry are rated at 6 pnts, doubled, 12 pnts
>But not
>Its 10
>Taking the same number of Trenchers as you would now means you would have 2-4 free points to buy more stuff with
>More stuff means smaller armies
>More warjacks means smaller armies
Either I'm not getting something or

>>46806666
The whole 'd3' attacks thing really pisses me off.
I was hoping that sort of randomness would get removed - not amplified.
Things like the Avatar's focus and the Sacral Vault's attacks... these are things you should be able to count on and not be victimized by a shitty random roll.

>>46806394
Yeah it was decided afterwards after determining that 35 pt games ended up too skewy when played to win.

I'm wondering if the new Scenario packets will be better balanced with MKIII compositions than the beta is currently.

>>46806700
I don't think they will change it, yea, but it's basically PP bowing to the standard set, rather than setting a standard themselves.

>>46806725
The only stuff we've seen that's gotten cheaper is stuff that was overcosted as fuck in Mk2, so don't take it as being an indication of points drop across the board.

>>46806738
It does seem a little weird, but at the same time, we know absolutely nothing else about the model.

But the extra initial likely tested too strong when it was set in stone, which is why they added the random element.

The random element lets the model actually have a powerful range without being overpowering.

>>46806725
Models points are doubled - but only as a baseline to allow PP to revalue points and balance models accordingly. Trenchers went down in points after their double point value because they're 'not good' enough to be the doubled point value. This doesn't set a standard that all models will be lowered in point value after their double. Some models could be increased in value due to their strength.

Now that that's out of the way, you then look at the 'standard value of the game' which used to be 50, and will now be 75.
If you're doubling all the points, obviously these numbers don't match up. That automatically makes it a smaller game. In a new game, you'll have 30 points for free to spend on jacks, and roughly 75 to spend on other stuff.
Mark 2 was 6 points to spend on jacks for free, with 50 points to spend on other stuff.
If you double the values of MK2, you'd get 12 points to spend on jacks and 100 points to spend on other stuff.
If you were to half the Mk3 values, you'd have 15 points to spend on jacks, and 37.5 points to spend on other stuff.

The fact that you're forced to take more jacks and less other stuff causes the game to be smaller due to less models on the table. Especially since in MK2 there weren't many factions that brought more than the minimum number of Warjack points.
>>46806815
I find it strange that they're keeping D3 attacks but they removed flying steel from MK1, which was the same thing but for melee.

>>46806562
Current games are ~54-57 point games (due to WJ/WB points)

As shown by the new battleboxes, 2-3 warjacks are going to be 0 points. Meaning ~20-30 WJ points.

New standard will probably end up being 75 points. Average point costs are going to be doubled and Warnouns are getting the equivalent of twice the WJ/WB points.

>>46806908
d3 ranged attacks already exists in the game through. Strafe, Autofire, all those abilities. This is just consolidating all those rules, with some balance hits in the meantime. Yea, some models are going to get hit(I'm curious as fuck about the PA, is it going to go to d6 or 2d3 or is it going to keep it's six attacks?

I'm curious what's going to happen to the Grolar.

I'm fairly certain it's not going to have 5 initial ranged attacks.

>>46806815
>The only stuff we've seen that's gotten cheaper is stuff that was overcosted as fuck in Mk2, so don't take it as being an indication of points drop across the board.
If we take the PP statement about the Jugg vs Conquest cost to not be smoke and mirrors the Conquest is now 37pts, when by straight doubling it should only be 36.

So of the 6 costs we've got confirmed, 3 got cheaper, 2 stayed the same, 1 got more expensive. Given the tiny sample size, and the fact that the things that got cheaper desperately needed it, I'm willing to put my money on it all basically washing out to even.

>>46807077
It could just retain it's special rule, the formatting would just change to ROF1, Reload 2, special rule for extra shots. It's firing pattern is very unique, just because they're streamlining doesn't mean special exceptions can't exist.

>>46807119
It's really a question of how it pans out for the bigger stuff, yea.

I mean, we might see melee range become a balancer rather than point adjustments as well.

If they go with the sword/axe/etc being .5, psudo spear style weapons/long ass swords being 1, and actual reach style weapons being 2, you'll see some big changes. I could totally see the Bane Knights going to 1" instead of 2", while Cinerators get bumped to that 1" as well.

But yea, I think most point adjustments are going to go up or down maybe 1-2 points, overall.

There's so many other aspects of the game changing for the sake of balance points are honestly the last thing to be worried about.

>>46807242
Yea, I think a lot of the wonky rules will stay in. ROF changes are mostly about all the weird ass "ROF1 but makes multiple shots" stuff that kept coming up.

I am exceptionally interested in seeing how some of this stuff pans out. The Mountain King seems quite honestly a lot better, even though Deafen seems a little redundant on a POW16 weapon. I guess it's great for the current ARM spam style lists, or maybe orders are changing up a lot.

>>46807324
>I guess it's great for the current ARM spam style lists

Fuck yes it is. I played Stryker2 for a long while, denying Orders to a chunky medium-based infantry unit is roughly equivalent to slapping the player across the face with a giant floppy dildo.

Don't stop my MOW ST shield wall order. It's all they have.

>>46807119
Conquest is 19 points today, so straight doubling would've made it 38.

>>46807764
Fuck it is I was looking at the wrong thing.

>>46797919
Huh i dont get but it but whatever thanks.

So if the new rules are going to be free to download, will they have the new mkiii cards to download and print?

>>46808005
Highly doubt it.

The base rules might be free, but I can almost guarantee they won't give out the cards for free.

Mainly being that they're so restrictive on the current cards getting out.

>>46808005
Signs point very strongly towards "no". They're releasing faction card packs just like they did after the Mk1-Mk2 change.

>>46807324
I think Deafen and Beast only rage is to allow him to function without feeling the necessity to take other beasts for up his combat potential.

You get a mat buffer and a pow buffer in a single package so you are no longer needing any support set up for the MK to kill.

>>46805870
This is me too. Pretty much every time I stop to agonize over a decision it's because I'm unsure about range.

>>46808005
Maybe the Battlebox ones like they did previously.

>>46808192
BB models are almost certain to be in the MK3 rulebook. Maybe even in addition to what's normally there.

>>46808005
The new cards won't be free. Not even as a download. If you bought mk2 cards on the War Room app, you'll get a discount on the mk3 cards for the app, but you still have to buy them.

>>46808348
Naturally. Prime should honestly have all the normal Prime stuff + everything in new BBs + Convergence & Merc BB equivalents.

>>46808166
Yeah it's pretty cool with Assault you can charge in, and basically be at MAT 8.

>>46802055
I can only give you a very rough rundown, as details are subject ot the great change 2 months from now.

Cygnar likes to kill your stuff before it gets a chance to kill theirs
Khador is just Khador, very blunt and direct
Protectorate says "no" a lot, kind of like blue in MtG
Cryx debuffs shit and murders it to death
Retribution will find your caster and they will kill him
Convergence currently mostly plays the counter-attack/attrition/recursion game
Mercs can be whatever the hell they want
Skorne is basically MtG green; go huge and smash
Circle is movement shenannigans: the faction
Legion ignores all the rules
Trolls are the brickest; they just won't die

Every faction can play a variation of playstyles, but this is what they go for most of the time.

>>46808992
Cygnar has good shooting in general
Khador spams infantry and their jacks are giant, blunt instruments without any real subtlty
Protectorate just walks around giving everyone the middle finger
Cryx is a melee blender
Retribution has a wide variety but almost all of it is based on infantry spam, their warjacks are primarily there for utility
Convergence is weird but generally very slow and dwarfish
Mercs have a wide variety
Skorne is basically like playing a bunch of Kaiju with saddles
Circle has a wide variety
Legion has a lot that ignores terrain for vision/movement, beasts have a lot of focus on speed compared to other factions
Trolls are the only hordes faction that can make legit infantry spam

>>46806339
You do realize that 75+30 < (50+5)*2. Right?

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>>46810056
75 + 30 = 105
(50 + 5) * 2 = 110

5 point difference.

Hungerford is the one that said "75 is the new 50." So don't sperg out on the messengers.

>>46807119
>So of the 6 costs we've got confirmed, 3 got cheaper, 2 stayed the same, 1 got more expensive.
And that makes sense from a PR standpoint. Look at the models PP has shown us. They were almost all considered underpowered/overcosted and they either got better or cheaper or both. They're not going to be teasing the new edition with announcements like "Hey guys, Banes got more expensive", even though I am absolutely certain, something of the like will happen.

>>46810325
well of course not.

heck I'm surprised they even show Eiryss, given that they took away her focus stripping, even though she costs the same and got different abilities that make her a great solo to use.

>>46810148
Yes. 5 point difference. 5 points LESS in MK3. I'm not "sperging out on messengers". That person is literally too dumb to comprehend that this does not mean a significant increase in game size. If anything, it's a decrease.

>>46810371
Her card is just exciting to look at, plus it shows off the new Blessed and Disruption symbols which was probably why they picked her.

Wrath of the dragonfather pdf please?also when does blood of kings come out?

>>46807759
What if Shield Wall is no longer an order, it's a special ability like Assault.

>>46811556
Too similar to Defensive Line, at that point they could just bump the base armor by a point or two and add D-Line.

>>46811607
And by that logic, Buckler and Shield wouldn't both exist, but here we are.

>>46811639
You're comparing something that currently exists in Mk2 to something that may not exist in Mk3. One of their big things for Mk3 has been simplification, in this case rolling annoyingly similar rules into one. Changing a sufficiently different rule to just be a copy of an existing rule would go directly against their design direction.

>>46811666
I'm not complaining about shit. I'm using the existence of those things as a counter argument for the argument presented >>46811607 that two rules would not coexist simply because they do similar things.

>Changing a sufficiently different rule to just be a copy of an existing rule would go directly against their design direction.

It wouldn't be a copy, though. Defensive Line and Shield Wall give ARM bonuses at different levels just like Buckler and Shield do.

>>46811691
>I'm not complaining about shit.
I never said you were. Are you drunk?

>I'm using the existence of those things as a counter argument
Those things are Mk2 rules, and are thus irrelevant to Mk3.

>It wouldn't be a copy, though. Defensive Line and Shield Wall give ARM bonuses at different levels just like Buckler and Shield do.
And something like six different rules that all granted extra gun attacks at different levels existed in Mk2, and almost all of them (maybe all of them) are being rolled into one thing for Mk3. Not sure what your point is.

>>46811727
>I never said you were. Are you drunk?

And dyslexic, apparently. I read comparing as complaining.

>>46797485

You can't fit more than 46 in 75 points, and I'm guessing 30 is about as high as you can go without problems.

>trencher platoons as the most common cygnar list when?

>>46807324
I love the new ROF rules. Much better and cleaner baseline system for dealing with stuff. Reinholdt can become "raise ROF of Warcaster weapon for one turn".

>>46812366
Wait what are the new rules? No extra attacks without paying focus or fury, right?

>>46812419
ROF is now the number of initial attacks, if you're allowed to buy extra attacks it's represented by Reload [X], X being the number of extra attacks you can buy.

>>46812419
No buying ranged attacks with FOC/FURY/Force. ROF is the number of basic ranged attacks you get to make with a weapon. The rule "Reload[x]" allows you to buy x additional ranged attacks on top of that.

>>46812464
>>46812455

Please for the love of god make the cyclone good

Let it CRA with itself or something

>>46812722
Or let it put out covering fire AND shoot normally. Anything that wouldn't make it a shitty Stormwall.

>>46812464
>>46812455
Got it. I was worried my waifu una would have to pay for each hawk she threw at a bitch

I'd love to see 50mm based models have a 1" mini reach as default with Reach remaining a 2" rule.

>>46813021
She might have to. We haven't seen her card yet.

>>46813081
The claws and horns on the Slayer have 1" reach. I don't see any other weapon on a heavy having less than that.

>>46813081
Slayer has 1" on all it's weapons, that's probably standard baseline for heavies now.

Trencher bayonets also have 1".

>>46813137
>Trenchers have 1"
But why. I guess you can use a musket as a one handed spear with a bayonet, but it's gonna hit like shit. Makes more sense for a two handed hit w/ 0.5"

>>46813956
Who the fuck would wield a rifle+bayonet with one hand?

>>46814065
Whoever thinks Trenchers have 1" reach

>>46797609
Only baddies complain about Bane Thralls, they aren't even in the top 5 of Cryx units.

>>46814084
But Anon, top 5 Cryx units are never fielded together.

>>46811957
I never said it was a good list. Just a funny one

>>46813956
A bayonet on the end of a rifle held in two hands has more range than whatever the standard for a melee range of 0.5 is supposed to be.

>>46813081
Reach doesn't exist any more. Melee attacks now have a Range instead.

People got super angry about the card spoilers here =\

>>46814245
what

>>46814245
I disagree. People have been pretty hype and nothing shown so far is bad.

>>46814502
Some guy threw a fit about the new Eyriss2 in the last thread, but I'm pretty sure he was trolling.

>>46813956

Keep in mind trencher rifles (and real life bayoneted rifles) are actually quite long and with a bayonet make fairly effective short spears. Considering the rifle itself is probably about 1 inch, I don't think it's absurd to have an extra 0.5" range on their melee attacks.

The better implication here is that most if not all two handed weapons that don't currently have reach will have this new 1" range. Storm blades and Knights exemplar are on their way to not being shit

>>46814502
>>46814517
And there are a few people who have trouble understanding the concept of point values.

>>46814585
Knights Exemplar were never shit.

>>46814585
I think we're going to see short ranged weapons(axes, one handed swords, knives, etc, etc) be at 0.5", semi long weapons(Bayonets, two handed swords, short spears) be 1", and actual reach weapons like full spears and the like be 2"

>>46814608

Exactly, which is great

>>46814602

Their unit size really gimped them but I have a feeling they're going to get the trencher treatment

>>46814602
>Knights Exemplar were never shit.
Ehh.... In the current meta they certainly aren't very good. They're essentially just an overpriced tarpit that doesn't do much else. For the 10+ points you currently spend on them I think there are way better options for Protectorate.

Stormblades aren't great, but man are they a ton of fun to play in the right build. Sadly Cygnar players hate fun in all forms