Hi all, question for those who have played multiple systems.
I play AD&D 2.0 and my party is reaching that point where the fast-leveling classes are level 12-13 and the slow-leveling classes are level 10-11.
At this point, the majority of enemies we face have no way of threatening us, short of a miraculous series of natural 20s rolled by the DM, 95% of what we face is fodder. The only creatures that threaten us are high level monsters with auto-kill or spells. It makes for very tedious gameplay because we either butcher a bunch of fodder units, or we face monsters who can kill us with one lucky gaze or spell.
Do other systems handle the leveling of PCs in a more balanced fashion? I know this game is about heroes in a fantasy universe, but I still think a small degree of realism in certain aspects wouldn't hurt the immersion. I'm ok with my level 10 paladin being able to wreck several low-level soldiers in a fight, but no matter how good you are, if you are completely surrounded by trained soldiers, they should still have the advantage through numbers and not need miraculous rolls to hurt you.
Have other systems managed to reduce the exponential growth of PC power?
I would say that D&D (any edition) is on the extreme end of the power ramp up scale. IME most other game systems do not default to PCs gaining so much power (relative to their expected challenges) so quickly.
>>46793291
I know Birthright has some great stuff for when you get that far if you don't want to switch systems.
Other than that, the only system I've had that doesn't suffer from a power creep of epic proportions would be GURPS. There are def others, I just probably haven't played them. You get like 4-6 points a session and gaining skills and abilities requires in character work that justifies it.
This is more of a problem in D&D than in any other system. Most systems don't even use levels; levels are ubiquitous in video games, but pretty much obsolete for tabletop.
I'm running a D&D 5e game right now, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. It's definitely my favorite version of D&D. But I'm running into the same problem you are; the power ramp is too damn steep. I've got level 12 PCs; pretty much everything in the monster manual is either "trivial and tedious" or "lethal." It's not as bad as it was in 3.5, but I'm definitely switching the group to something non-D&D after this campaign.
>>46793291
>At this point, the majority of enemies we face have no way of threatening us, short of a miraculous series of natural 20s rolled by the DM, 95% of what we face is fodder. The only creatures that threaten us are high level monsters with auto-kill or spells. It makes for very tedious gameplay because we either butcher a bunch of fodder units, or we face monsters who can kill us with one lucky gaze or spell.
It sounds like your DM is uninspired and is resorting to skimming the Monstrous Manual and just throwing random enemies at you.
How did your party get to level 13 without making any meaningful connections with NPCs? When you say
>At this point, the majority of enemies we face have no way of threatening us
it tells me that the only "threats" the DM can come up with are immediate physical violence. By the time a character passes level 10, they should be invested in the larger world instead of simply biding time between rolling combat initiative.
Off the top of my head:
>forest fires
>earthquakes
>floods
>famine
>invading armies
>seditious cults
These are all things that, while not immediately threatening to the PCs' hit points, can "threaten" them by destroying favorite locations, NPCs, etc.
>>46793291
I say you should retire the characters from the adventuring life and have the party play as some of their followers, proteges, apprentices, or people that are otherwise members of their retinue.
And while that's happening the non-wizards all have big leadership positions and all that authority to be responsible for, and believe I recall the book implying that by that point Wizards are likely to isolate themselves for decades chasing exceptionally strange or powerful truths.
>>46793557
Retiring characters from adventuring with a lot of renown in a leadership position is a good idea, you can always roll a new character for combat but trying to make a network of NPCs takes lots of sessions. It's the closest thing to a save point in RPGs.
You've lost me... your AC should be reasonably low by now, but shouldn't be butting against the limit, your HP have maxed out...
There are plenty of things that are physically dangerous to the party.
Yeah the wizard is lobbing out some serious shit but there are a shit tonne of high MR monsters.
By this point the Thief has his guild to worry about, the fighter has his little army, the wizard is worried about all kinds of crap...
You went off and bothered fighting some crappy orcs? Killed 100s of them in basically zero rounds? Yeah, that was a gambit and the town you kept your stuff in was ransacked while you were distracted.
You kind of end up working of superhero rules at this point, you attack the part by destroying the things in the world they worked hard to achieve and the things they care about.
The Villains can't kill Superman, but can force him to choose between saving Lois Lane and/or an orphanage full of children meanwhile they use the distraction to get their hands on the Spear of Destiny and a boat load of money.
>>46793817
>HP have maxed out...
Or more correctly the rate at while you get new Hit Points is greatly reduced.
in 2nd ed. you get no further hit dice after 9th level, you don't get your con bonus either.
So a Con 18 fighter at 9th level has a max of 126 HP... at 13th level he'll have 138 HP... that's assuming he's rolled 10 every time. More realistically average rolls will have given you something more like 90-112.
The wizard is stupidly powerful, but is still a glass cannon with loads of things that can challenge them.
>>46793817
My paladin wears Full plate mail +3, carries a +4 shield, wields a defender +4, and has his -1 to hit aura against evil enemies. I am already hitting the limit.
>>46793400
>5E
>power ramp is too damn steep
I think you suck at designing encounters. Read tucker's kobolds, now toss in bound accuracy and give them flying.
>>46794124
ahhh... you've too much stuff ;)
Right, so a cloud giant needs 15s to hit you, and does an average of 25 damage on a hit...
4 of them surround you, they get a ganging up bonus, they get slightly lucky and 2 hit you every round, in 2 rounds they've done 100 points of damage, and you're down.
>>46794084
>No further hit dice
Fuck, does that mean they keep counting as 9 hit dice for spell effects limited by hit dice as well? That would explain a lot.
Baldur's Gate player here. Never read the actual rules.
>>46794376
We always cheated and had kept adding hitdice... so I don't know... but basically yes.
After level 9, (10 for some classes) you don't get any more hit dice, and so should probably count as having 9, I think some things said "Levels or hit dice" but I don't remember anything that said levels always counted as hit dice.
Move into dominion play already.
>>46794338
>Right, so a cloud giant needs 15s to hit you,
oops Scratch that... I made a mistake... they need 10s. Except the one that's behind you who only needs an 8.
>>46793291
>I know this game is about heroes in a fantasy universe, but I still think a small degree of realism in certain aspects wouldn't hurt the immersion.
And nothing says "realism" like artificial balancing mechanisms, am I right folks?
>>46794624
2e already has a ton of those, though. What's one more?
>>46794624
>>46794724
I wouldn't call everything an artificial balancing mechanism. It could be as simple as handicaps for being surrounded and outnumbered or bonuses for making attacks of opportunity against a foe who is already occupied.
