Pathfinder General - /pfg/
Fae Edition: Tell me about the fae in your games! Is there anything that makes them special, do you ignore them entirely, or are they just by the book?
Unified /pfg/ link repository:
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Previous thread: >>46767313
The fae in my game never stop going on about free will. Even the evil ones usually dont attack the characters, they just accuse them of "following plans" and "only doing what others tell them to" then they give them quests, which afterwards they berate them for doing as "soulless lackeys so far devoid of creativity or the self they can only be called pale mimics of life".
Curious, is vitalist a good class, was working on a mute healer monk type person (not a monk, just monastic-like) and I was debating heals or psywar
>>46777434
>The fae in my game never stop going on about free will
So they're PCs?
>>46777561
It's a solid class, it does healing very well.
>>46777567
Quite the opposite, my PCs refuse to do anything but follow the rails i provide them with, the Fae are there to chastise them for this behavior.
They fucking hate Fae, because they know meeting one means everything they've touched is now going to be trapped and nothing they get told will make any sense.
>>46777366
I never really get to use fae.I never really get to GM, and my group's other GMs never use them.Essentially, I'd love to have them act as possible allies or possible antagonists based on how the players feel about "happiness at any cost."Have your soul trapped in a self-repairing toy body forever, unable to move to the afterlife, while your mind is assaulted by constant waves of pleasurable thoughts? Become seemingly insane because the world looks like a cartoon to you? Spend the rest of eternity as the main character of a novel which occasionally traps other souls, turning them into your supporting cast and always growing longer, reading like a slice-of-life anime?It's all fine, because you'll be happy! Whether you want to or not! You won't even remember what it's like to be sad or angry or lonely anymore. Isn't that great?
>>46777366
The fey are actually the dominant race in my home setting, having invaded en masse after the First World was destroyed in a war between them and something else.
They're still basically fey in nature, but the loss of their home plane and the fact that they aren't immortal on the Material has led them to a weird sort of pacifism. They divided the world up into states based on the ley lines when they arrived, and they are FIERCELY devoted to maintaining those borders. Any fey lord who tried to make a move on another's territory would be immediately crushed by the combined forces of everyone else (and they're all just itching to have something change up, so they never really 'stand down' so much as stare at each other and call out dares to swing first).
The mutually-assured-destruction situation is the only real advantage the mortal races still have. Whenever a fey lord dies (whether at the hands of fey or of some mortal uprising), the others won't dare make a move on the vacated territory for fear of each other, which created a bunch of holes in the fey-ruled patchwork for independent kingdoms to spring up.
The fey created the elves as a servitor race, very early on after their invasion when they thought they might need expendable 'breeders' to bulk out their forces in the war against the once-dominant human empire. Said war was over before the elf population got to useful numbers, though, which led to an awkward redundancy. Elves within fey lands are given preferential treatment over other mortals, but more in the sense that a warrior's sword is cared for better than his shoes. Given the pseudo-vampiric elf-blood-powers-our-magic High Humans who run most of the non-fey human lands, though, it's not necessarily a bad trade.I never get the chance to babble about this setting anymore, can you tell?
Why do players flip out when you present them with a choose between two evils, or when their good intention make things worse? From my experience the vast majority of players can't deal with the concept that everything they do doesn't automatically work, or that there might be bigger fish in the pond than them.
>>46777366
The Fae are most assuredly Bad News. Well, not universally - but as far as the players are concerned, almost so.
See, the main empire of the setting secured its borders a long time ago by driving the vast majority of 'monsters' out of its borders, primarily to the north (to avoid too many of them defecting to their southern rival)
The north is mostly bogs and deep, dark forests, with a climate in the range of, say, the temperate bits of Europe, or Canada (as opposed to the Mediterranean empire, and the rocky-deserts-and-lush-rainforests of their southern neighbor)
So now those forests are chock full of monsters and spirits from the oldest days of the empire, with long grudges against humanity. And the thing is, the empire also chased its human persona non grata up there.
The fae and the Balatians (a loose gathering of tribes with inspirations ranging from Dacian to Hunnic) aren't exactly friends (for one thing, the fae tend to demand sacrifice and require strict behaviors to appease, which has made the Balatians very superstitous) but they do have a mutual grudge against the Golden Empire and they're willing to share secrets and occasionally band together to fight them (most recently, wiping out three legions in a Not!Teutoburg Forest scenario)
>>46777771
Because, almost-hepts, players don't usually like going through all of their effort for nothing. It's why attrition matters in war - why fight if you're not achieving anything?
>>46777771
Because 99% of the time that just leads to the DM pulling "HA HA PALADIN NOW YOU FALL" bullshit.
If the players know you well as a DM and trust you, then they'll be willing to get drawn into shades-of-grey stuff.
>>46777816
I mostly just see if as players being big babies thinking literally anything they attempt will succeed and anyone they fight will be weaker than them.
>>46777811
It's not about achieving nothing, it's about not always succeeding. Where is the fun in knowing you'll always win?
>tfw I will never get to play a Swan Maiden
Fae are broken, patch work creatures, made of the cast offs of strong souls that pass through the First World from the Plane of Positive Energy to be born.
They connect with nature/elemental themes to fill that hole within themselves that in mortals is filled by experience and life.
They can develop beyond that and become more than just their nature by touching upon the material plane and learn to grow, gain empathy with others, so on so forth. Fae are basically half-made things, intense in their wonder and magnificent in their passion.
But not whole, or rounded.
Elemental in the same way Outsiders are, defined by their nature, rather than their deeds.
Hello, pfg, i was searching for some advice to build a Nameless King of Dark Souls 3, things like class, items or feats will be grateful ^^
>>46777964
>literally who?
>what does he do?
>until you tell us more
>we can't help you
- a quatrain by /pfg/
Are we still talking about good necromancy?
Is it safe to come out?
>>46778020
Nah, we're on fae now. What are yours like?
>>46778020
It's safe now anon. It's safe.
>>46778020
We are now! Time for FEY NECROMANCY!
>>46778039
>>46778020
Why not both?
Fey are the coin of which undead are the other side. One has too much life, the other not enough.
Reanimate Fey as undead, see if it creates mortals!
>>46777662
Sounds like your bitter about your pcs just following the story and the fey are your passive aggressive way to punish them.
>>46777996
There you have
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnZDxlGVsfw
>>46778020
You fool, you just raised the deadthread
>>46778020
Good necromancy is a fact, dont blame the powers just the people who use them, even witches can be good people
>>46777883
If your players are being assholes and going on like "LOL I ROLLED A TWENTY THE KING GIVES ME A BLOWJOB", then by all means, shut them the fuck down.
But if you're throwing the fucking Kobayashi Maru at them every ten minutes, odds are they'll start to wonder why they bother doing anything if they have no hope in hell of winning, and more importantly, why they're even playing your game.
>>46778039
My fae always seem to hide something.
I always try to make them act like they got 3-4 different portfolios, just to fuck with my players. Every big fae they find, seems to be extremely plot-centric, when it's actually just a nobody who eavesdropped a bit too much.
It's my idea of trickery.
>>46777366
Planning to throw by characters a game full of evil Fae, Hags, and Changelings. They're pushing a war between some smaller mortal nations in order to make their own nation of darkness and terror. There will be good fairies involved as well, many of them kidnapped and enslaved by the bad guys.
What are whips even good for, indiana jones swinging shenanigans?Are they nothing but a tool disguised as a weapon?
>>46777883
Anon people will not bother to try when they know they have no chance of success, at least generally, why bother playing when the only option is to loose?
>>46778151
Reach and maneuvers. Whip magus is great for delivering debuffs like rime frostbite from far, far away.
>>46778151
They are shit anon, another victim of piazo
>>46777940
Because youdied?
>>46778209
I don't recall them being particularly good in 3.5 either. Except for maybe the scorpion whip.
>>46778225
Oh then they are just shit in general then
>>46778078
>>46778082
The Orphne is a Neutral Evil fairy necromancer found more often on Golarion because everyone in the First World gets tired of their shit.
>>46778219Also because none of my GMs would allow monster PC's.But yes.
>>46777883
>Where is the fun in knowing you'll always win?
In finding out how you win, and what your characters are willing to do to get there. Superman's pretty popular, but if you think "Does he win?" has ever been in question, you're a madman. Not to mention pic related.
But, more generally, you've got one of two situations. In one case, you're correctly reading your players, and they're pissed because you're ruining their escapist fantasy game, which they're only playing because they want to experience a world in which effort does translate into success for once. The other situation is that you're strawmanning them, and more likely what's getting them pissed off is that you're denying them meaningful choices of any kind. Maybe they lose, but their actions should still have SOME kind of impact - saving a village or whatever. Mind you, crushing defeats are a traditional 2nd act thing, to establish how threatening the villains are, but you need to leave your heroes some kind of plan, hope, or next step even in those situations, so they have some reason to keep going.
The key to having a good campaign with meaningful failures is to keep your players surrounded with options. When they fail, it should be because they chose the wrong option - RNG and raw numbers should only ever create temporary setbacks (which can include character death, if that's the kind of campaign you're running, but your players better know that's on the table, and you shouldn't expect them to get very in-character). When things do go wrong, there should be a few things they can think of to do other than give up.
>>46778252
Apparently, the female ones are also qties!
>>46777964
He's a Hussar Warlord Human (Advanced) with Piercing Thunder and Elemental Flux riding an adult blue dragon.
I'd argue he's level 20, Mythic 10 considering he's theFirstborn of Gwyn, and his items include Hair of Charisma and Tattered Cloak of Protection.
Ok /pfg/, i'm gonna play an Illusionist.
I'm torn between using Spell Lineage on one of the Shadow /insert school here/ or something like Phantasmal Killer or Major Image.
What do you think?
>>46778383
wow thank you so much
If you were to make an Aasimar/Tiefling-like "Vampire" race (ie the base race is just fluff besides affecting whether it is Medium or Small), which attributes should they have bonuses and penalties to? Are Vampires stronger than they are fast, or faster than they are strong?
>>46778494
Just a word of warning; dragons aren't exactly built into the setting as things you can ride, so it'll take a bit of finagling with the rules to say he can use a blue dragon as his mount.
I'd also change the breath weapon from lightning to fire.
>level 1 party sleeping at the trading post in the middle of nothing( kingsmaker's AP).
>during night something gigantic rips out one of the 4 guard towers, possibly with magic, and walk away with it(and the useless catapult that was on the tower) towards the forest; its traces magically disappear.
what the hell is my DM up to? it doesn't even make sense to us, we can't even search for it.
>>46778554
You mean... dhampir?
>http://www.archivesofnethys.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dhampir
>>46778595
It's the legendary Jolly Greenbelt Giant, you enlist his help later in the book to assault the Stag Lord's Fort.
>>46778599
>half-vampire
>not even undead
No the objective is a real vampire. Just playable and not made retarded like Paizo's. Ignore Paizo's and work off actual vampire lore.
>>46778634
oh cool. i was thinking he homebrewed in something completely unexplainable.
>>46778349
>screencap from the pdf
>not the regular image right off paizo blog
Why tho?
>>46778634
Wait, is that actually what it's called? That's some double reference there.
>>46778640
Vampire PC's are impossible, no game has managed to balance them.
>>46778640
Then I wouldn't make it a race, because no race is going to have all the good vampire shit and be balanced. Either do it up as a monster class, like DSP's ghost and ghoul, or do it as a series of feats progressing to full vampirism, like Fire Mountain did for Way of the Wicked.
>>46777366
>Tell me about the fae in your games!
>tfw I will probably never GM a game, or actually get my group interested in running anything outside of Paizo AP's
>tfw still writing up shitty snippets of lore because it's fun and JUST MAYBE I'll get one of them to bite.
They are absolutely everywhere, but most of the "harmless" ones tend to keep out of sight. Outside of dense forests, all fey are extremely scattered. Forests that have an area with a high concentration of magical energy attract fey like ants to sugar, moreso for malicious fey. The largest and most dangerous of these forests holds everything from dryads and sprites to monstrous twisted animals. The forest practically holds a siren song for adventurers as well, many of whom never return. Those who do manage to escape only remember being led by a small fox, whom they only met after catching a glimpse of a decrepit building with a small box on the front step.Said forest is actually a containment zone for a Fey Kitsune godling, who played one too many tricks and pissed off an Elder Dragon a few centuries ago. Turns out that tricking a dragon into a relationship with a human, then hitting on the dragon's daughter, is in fact a bad idea.Between the forest actively draining the godling and his having been largely forgotten by the surrounding villages, it takes all he can to simply keep his old shrine protected from other fey, and to keep his oracle from ditching him.
Its lunar oracle that broken? I mean yes he is like a druid with oracle spells but he's not even as powerful as witches, wizards or even clerics with good domains.
>>46778893
Broken? Nah. Very good though, probably the strongest mystery all-round, but still T2.
>>46778931
T2 is already for fully-broken classes. T1 is just the same but able to change how it's broken every day.
>>46770198
How big of a 'homestead' are you looking at?
Cause in general you should be looking at a blacksmith, some workshops (carpenter shop, charcoal foundry, lumber mill), a grain mill, some fields, a barn/stables and maybe even a nice brewery. That can be for like one 'family', if you're looking at scaling it up to a small 'colony' add a cookhouse, a beekeeper & apiaries, a church (which may double as a school) and some buildings for unmarried laborers and some bigger rooms for married laborers & their children.
Some store-rooms/warehouses are also a thing, but don't need as much detail and they can often be attached to the respective workshop.
>>46778782
>>46778659
He's a lying liar lying out of his lie hole.
>>46779073
Remember that finished goods are almost always more valuable than raw materials (fuck D&D rules) if you're looking to make profits.
People who even tell their players what published adventure they're playing at all are dumbasses.
Lads, my gm wants to do a pvp session. 3v3, level 7 and 24k gold each. I've been elected as a team captain and have no idea about the other team.
Any ideas for team builds?
>>46779073
>>46779101
>How big of a 'homestead' are you looking at?
Honestly? When I think of the type of property I want I can't help but visualize the lands Thorfinn stayed in during the "Farm" arc of Vinland Saga. Which, when I think about it, included all of the buildings you just listed.
So let me add this up; mansion (5,160), blacksmith (730), 2 Trade shops for carpentry and charcoal (1460), grain mill (1860), barn/stables (1,710), 4 Farms (8360) = 19,280 gp.
That doesn't even include the cost of breweries or the buildings required for processing whatever we grow!
>>46779259
AC is the biggest weakness at that level, but maybe not with that much gold.
>>46779297
I know the other team captain, this is gonna turn into a min max off (maybe GM wants to get it out our systems.) I had some ideas, like a coven of slumber based witches, with coup de grace based familiars.
>>46779259
Synthetist summoner or a witch with an improved familiar and the right hexes should do the work
>>46779273
Start with carpentry & blacksmith & lumber. You can build tools and buildings with whatever is available on the land - because available natural resources are "free".
Spare labor can be used for fields.
>>46777716
>Hobkins malefactor
>With a nuglub drunken brute for a bodyguard
>Fuckers start a cold war underneath the town
>A ratling tome eater sets his brood to collecting scrolls and shit
>PCs make the cold war go hot on accident by disarming the wrong ratling-trap
>Have to slog through a hellish war in the dark basements, cross-spaces, and pig toilets
>Hobkins becomes a lingering threat
>Finally defeated
>Turns out a fear eater alchemist was using him as a distraction
>>46779368
Synthesist was banned before I joined this table, sadly. Seems cool.
>>46779073
>>46779273
You wouldn't typically build a homestead like this desu senpai, you'd be a manor and a small fee that would include some of this stuff, build up from there.
>>46779383
Should I be using Rooms to lower prices? I realized I could save a lot from converting the Farms into Field "rooms" and hire farmers from surrounding settlements.
But you're right, I need to start with the "point producers" so I can build my own buildings, rather than buy them all from the start.
>>46777366
>Fae Edition: Tell me about the fae in your games!
Why do they mask their forms with glamours?
>>46779421
People forget GG literally built into the rules that you were expected to get your very own barony (Way way above a simple Manor) quite early in your adventure. I loved that shit.
>>46779398
Then i would be doing a witch or a cleric, they have good duel caracteristics
>>46779508Lotta loyalty for a Mesmerist archetype!
>>46779524
GG?
Having land that grows alongside you sounds amazing, it sounds like DrowAnon's doing that in the LotLK campaign?
>>46779398
>Synthesist was banned
Why does this even happen? Isn't it worse than unarchetyped?
>>46777366
Fae are born from dreams. Even the good ones operate on bizarre logic, and dreams are nightmares more often than not. There is no First World in my setting - Fae live in the realm of dreams or manifest on the material plane, and really powerful ones can link the two planes to form "courts" that they rule as demigods.
>>46779646
You'd see Transformation banned a lot if it was available at low levels, too. It defies expectations, which is what people really mean when they whine about it being broken. "It's a caster, it shouldn't be fighting that good, I didn't plan for that!" Meanwhile, druid was never expected to do anything but turn into animals, so nobody minds.
>>46779646
It is, but it fills the same role as the fighter while being much, much better at it. So instead of making fighters better or admitting it's a game about casters, people kill the messenger.
>>46779616
Gary Gygax
He didn't just expect you to build up your character, he expected you to build a world around your character.
>>46779723
This. Just this. Is like the people who thinks gunslingers are broken, just fucking wrong things in Pathfinder logic
>>46779723
To be fair, Transformation just makes a given caster more competent in melee, it doesn't make them GOOD. Especially since it shuts down all casting abilities.
>>46779772
Man, what happened to the belief in collaborative storytelling for tabletop? That sounds amazing.
>>46779849
TSR, WotC, and Paizo happened.
>>46779978
RIP Gygax
>>46779978
Paizo was simply following WotC's lead, the blame is entirely on them.
>>46780041
People are responsible for their own actions.
I noticed Asmodeus' favored weapon is the mace. Does it refer to light mace or heavy mace, or is just a normal mace a weapon I just can't find?
>>46779978
>>46780041
He absolutely knew this would happen which is why he didn't want to publish Greyhawk.
I'm considering making a huge change to the cosmology in my campaign. Daemons would be merged into sceaduinar rather than sit beside demons and devils (NE = ambition != nihilism IMO) and all undead explained as their creations and puppets (a la AD&D where undead are created from lemures and manes).
This isn't some unforgivable blasphemy against Paizo, is it?
>>46780335
Paizo a shit, why would you not blasphemy against them?
>>46780176
I'm pretty sure it's AT LEAST the light maceI remember seeing a couple Asmodean NPCs with light macesbut I can't recall any that used a heavy mace.Also, am I a bad person for wishing they picked the Morningstar for his favored weapon?
>>46780335
Who gives a flying fuck if it IS heresy against Paizo? If you are the DM and your take fits your world better, fucking do it.
>>46780363
That's fine, I intend on using a morningstar for myinquisitor who's pretending to worship abadar but will hide his true allegiance from the party for as long as he can, then inspire them to make Taldor great again by encouraging it being annexed into Cheliax!
>>46780335
Daemons shouldn't even be a thing imo. The mix-match terminology in D&D is confusing as fuck.
>>46780335
Well, I'm against it on principle because daemons a best, but it's your game, man, don't come to us for approval.
>>46780458
Hey fuck off, I'd drop demons before daemons. At least there's a good reason for the naming similarities in PF, seeing as the latter created the former and they would've gotten mixed up a lot in the early days of demonkind.
>>46779849
Gygax did tons of great shit that has been largely forgotten, he designed his dungeons to have functioning ecosystems and a reason to exist, they weren't just slaughter galleries like now.
Has anybody ever found a way to deal with possession/multiple personalities in a way that's fun for everybody at the table?
>>46779849
people dismiss most collaborative storytelling games as SJWshit now.
>>46780634
>Kafkatrapping
>>>/lgbt/
>>46780363
>>46780362
I've seen questions on simplifying the cosmology (e.g. eleven distinct subtypes of fiends spread across three planes, overcrowded?) get answered that said question is stupid.
I think a lot of the cosmology is illogical. It accumulated over 40 years with little attempt at holistic organization and cleaning.
>>46780458
>>46780507
My point exactly. If members of evil parties vary along the law-chaos axis, why not demons? The 1e books even admit devils and daemons closely resemble demons and uses the same random generation tables for all three.
>>46780579
I always thought dungeons ecologies were unnecessary attempts at rationalizing the fantastical. If we're playing in a magical world anyway, why not have spontaneous generation (like the ancient Greeks believed) and living dungeons?
Honestly not a fan of Gygax or his views on things. Especially how alignments should be played.
>>46780673
I have no idea what that means, but I'm honestly curious.
>>46780579
>>46780681
Is this back when dungeon really did mean, "underground structure built out of cobblestone, often with traps and multiple rooms?"
Because honestly I feel like dungeon has (or should have) expanded to include any "action map" of an area the party is exploring, whether it's a bandit camp, hostile castle or cave system.
>>46780596
All the players are one of the personalities and the DM is the main person.I want to play Everyone is John so bad
>>46780746
One thousand hours in Google:
>The term "kafkatrapping" describes a logical fallacy that is popular within gender feminism, racial politics and other ideologies of victimhood. It occurs when you are accused of a thought crime such as sexism, racism or homophobia. You respond with an honest denial, which is then used as further confirmation of your guilt. You are now trapped in a circular and unfalsifiable argument; no one who is accused can be innocent because the structure of kafkatrapping precludes that possibility.
>The term derives from Franz Kafka's novel The Trial in which a nondescript bank clerk named Josef K. is arrested; no charges are ever revealed to the character or to the reader. Josef is prosecuted by a bizarre and tyrannical court of unknown authority and he is doomed by impenetrable red tape. In the end, Josef is abducted by two strange men and inexplicably executed by being stabbed through the heart.
>>46780802
Huh, that's actually enlightening. Thanks anon.
>>46780681
>I always thought dungeons ecologies were unnecessary attempts at rationalizing the fantastical
It enables players to interact with the environment, Orcs hijacked a Gold mine and enslaved a bunch of local Goblin tribes to mine that shit? Well shit, that's profitable, you could free the Goblins after slaughtering the Orcs or you could keep them mining that gold for you.
Wait, Remember how we passed by that pond with half eaten Goblin corpses in it? The Goblins told us the Orcs have been feeding a Worm to guard treasure, perhaps we should throw the Orc corpses in there and steal it.
>>46780802
Literally just "Whoever denied it supplied it"
>>46780579
Dungeon ecologies you say?
>>46780933
I want tofeedthat elfcooked monsters.
>>46780596
I played a Changeling (Eberron, not Fey) with MPD. Every personality looked different and had a different class, alignment, and re-allocated mental stats. I had like, a dozen different character sheets towards the end of the campaign, because I encouraged the other players to make characters for me too. The DM decided when the shifts would happen (every single time I woke up, sometimes under heavy stress, and sometimes one of them just wanted to "front"), and while it wasn't always convenient, he never outright shafted me (no "oh, you become the 5-wis personality just before Charm person hits" kind of shit)
>>46781002
You mean to?
>>46781256
Don't be silly, anon.Cooked monsterscan't eat elves.
Also, all dwarves should carry an adamantine shield that they can cook in.
>>46781339
but they caneat cooked elves
>>46781366
>>46781339
Mithral is better for cookware.
No, really, it purifies the food and is non-stick.
>>46780681
I never enjoyed the overcomplicated divisions between fiends. Why do we need so many divisions, especially very similar ones? The books make a big deal about demons and devils being different, but I don't see it.
A distinction I read elsewhere and liked better was that demons and devils both feed on sin, but demons are very results oriented while devils are more patient and subversive. Where a demon embodies the sin it indulges and promotes, a devil tempts mortals to sin by embodying that sin's opposite.
>>46781449
What really gets me is daemons and demons. They're pronounced the same way!
>>46781531
DAEMONS WANT TO DESTROY ALL LIFE
DEMONS WANT TO CORRUPT ALL LIFE
THESE CLEARLY CAN'T BE FOLDED INTO THE SAME OUTSIDER
>>46781550
Could've at least called them daimons! Or frick, pay for yugoloths, make up a word. I don't care!
>>46781531
In what country? DAY-mon and DEE-mon
>>46781569
WOULD A NUMERIAN DEMON BE A DIGIMON?
>>46781602
Yes.
>>46781602
No, that's a Cyberdemon.
>>46781573
Paizo's country, though they probably thought it was pronounced day-mon
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/daemon
>>46781602
Isn't everything a digimon?
>>46781619
>>46781602
Good thing Cyberdemons aren't a thing in Pathfinder.
>>46781640
Aren't there daemons underneath the largest numerian city that have cybernetic enhancements?
>>46781651
I know they show up in the event of Darkest Timeline, or maybe just WotR bad end.
>>46779461
I dunno. I'm not familiar with the rules you're using (ultimate campaign? kingdom building?), I think downtime rules might work better.
Blacksmith & Carpenter would be 'goods/labor'
>>46781531
This infuriates me more than I have characters to illustrate.
How does one ideally create the Abyss Watchers in Pathfinder?
For those not in the know, the Abyss Watchers, also known as Farron's Undead Legion, are an organization of Undead united by the shared consumption of Wolf's Blood, who fight in a unique sword-and-hook style against any perceived incursion of the Abyss in the World. Due to the nature of their brotherhood, it is almost impossible to keep an Abyss Watcher permanently dead, as the Wolf's Blood reanimates them (which would happen anyway given the nature of Undeath in Dark Souls.)
Here is a video of them in action, for further reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKuAWchxPo8&src_vid=f0LdIZ8TWYo&annotation_id=annotation_1175322801&feature=ivThanks!
>>46781550
Daemons are formed from souls that suffered horribly or caused horrible suffering in life, and organize around the conclusion that existence is a net negative, and that everything would be better off if it ceased to be. While they may enjoy the suffering they cause, the primary goal is always to destroy something, to leave the world emptier than they found it.
Demons are formed from souls that may have caused suffering, but hold no attachment to the concept, only the gratification they received from their actions. A demon doesn't care what it destroys or doesn't, so long as it enjoys doing so and gets to continue that enjoyment for as long as possible.
Motive and intent are major factors in alignment, and daemons and demons are complete opposites in that regard.
My planar shit containing all the outsiders is just 3 finite planes sandwiched by 2 infinities.
The Far Realm is infinite raw creation. The Abyss is the bottomless garbage disposal. The Underworld protects the Material Realm from the garbage disposal and decides what happens to souls, Heaven protects and shapes the Material from raw creation, and accepts the best souls passed to it from the Underworld.
>>46779223
Not necessarily, it's a good way to set up a twist.
>>46781736
I honestly don't know if you can outside of DM Fiat. Ignoring the inability to die, being able to feed power from one person to another and stack that X amount of times is extremely limited, the only example that springs to mind is Deadly Juggernaut. Maybe if you went back to 3.5 and pulled out Blood in the Water Stance, but there's nothing in PF that'll let you potentially infinitely stack bonuses like that.
>>46779223
I actually enjoy having characters who aren't completely crippled for building wrong for this campaign. I also trust my players not to actually read ahead.
Anyone have a working link to the Inner Sea World Guide? I can't find it in the trove and the pdf isn't in the usual places I look
>>46781769
Daemons have huge conceptual overlap with Sceaduinar and undead: they're personifications of death and hate all life. It makes more sense for them all to be related. That would neatly explain why negative energy is tied with evil 99% of the time (wtf prana ghosts?) and why stuff like holy water harms both fiends and undead: daemons are powered by negative energy and responsible for animating undead.
>>46781736
Fluff, off the top of my head you could rewrite the Infernal Healing spell or something.
Not sure about the sword and hook style or whatever but you get the idea.
Would PF cosmology be improved by the removal of devils?
They're never written sufficiently broken to the order they serve; always you see devils stabbing each other in the back like corporate suits, when that SHOULD go against the purposes of Hell and be expressly forbidden.
Asmodeus is just a giant Mary Sue of a villain who never accomplishes anything but always gets to claim credit and have everyone jerk off to how smart he is and how everything was according to his keikaku.
I think I'd like it better if the asuras were in the top LE spot. Being born from the mistakes of gods is a cool-ass background whenever it's detailed, and the fact that they could go after any deity's works at any time makes them a lot less prone to "oh well it's just the devils, the good guys will work with them even though they're blatantly evil because haha I dunno chaos is worse I guess"
>>46781973
>I think I'd like it better if the asuras were in the top LE spot. Being born from the mistakes of gods is a cool-ass background whenever it's detailed, and the fact that they could go after any deity's works at any time makes them a lot less prone to "oh well it's just the devils, the good guys will work with them even though they're blatantly evil because haha I dunno chaos is worse I guess"
This.
Personally I like the idea that Fiends were a "mistake", that everything about them is an aberration or leftover from Creation that the Goodly Outsiders either never got around to wiping out, or can't.
>>46781903
Sceaduinar are literally nothing and nobody ever uses them, so who gives a fuck what they overlap with? Like, show of fucking hands who has ever used, seen, or even heard of the fucking things? Get rid of THEM if you're so worried about overcrowding of concepts, nobody will notice.
As for undead, they aren't a monolithic race like outsiders. Undead can have literally any motivation; the most common sapient undead like vampires and liches have no beef with life at all, they just need to feed on it to maintain their superpowers and immortality. Mindless undead don't hate anything, they're mindless.
You're attaching an agenda to undead that barely any but the nightshades actually display, and then claiming that agenda is their sole defining trait.
>>46781973
PF cosmology needs to be simplified full stop desu, even GreyHawks wasn't this much of a clusterfuck.
>>46781339
>Shield
>not helmet
Maybe as like a griddle, but I don't see a shield making a very good pot.
Though I do like the idea of dwarven diner-style comfort food.
What is a fun, Paizo-only class/archetype/combo/whatever to play? Coming off a fresh TPK and that's what we're limited to. Nothing I'm coming up with is clicking at all.
>>46782067It's a Dungeon Meshi reference. The dwarf in that manga has an adamantine wok.
>>46781845
>I actually enjoy having characters who aren't completely crippled for building wrong for this campaign.
You can just, yanno, tell them generally what kinds of things they'll be facing, if there will be lots of traps or lots of persuading NPCs, etc.
>>46782105
Alchemist, Beastmorph or Promethean
>>46782128
And telling them to download the AP player's guide does just that, and actually helps them create a character who's invested in the region and why they should help.
>>46782130
I've done the Promethean Alchemist to the point where I had a shop run by simulacrum and a stone golem power armor so that's a no go. I'll look into beast morph.
>>46782105
What do you want to do?
>>46781973
>>46782002
Having the main evil outsider races be asura, daemons, and qlippoth would be a lot more interesting than what we've got now.
>LE: mistakes of the gods, seducing mortals with the valid claim that gods are flawed and can't be trusted with their power, descending in organized ranks to target holy sites of any religion, and never showing dissent or fear because they know reincarnation awaits them should they die
>NE: mistakes of the multiverse, souls that spilled out of the River of Souls and went wrong somehow, now quietly engineering horrors everywhere they touch, while not fearing death and always having replacements in the wings of any conflict
>CE: things from OUTSIDE the universe, which simply hate everything for being different from what they are, turning everything into alien chaos and having no known weak points or limits to even begin bargaining with them
>>46781736
Not exactly like them, but a character Inspired by them could be an Harbinger with Thrashing Dragon, Unquiet Grave, and maybe Elemental Flux if you want to push it. You could even turn the organization into a Martial Tradition and tune the Wolf's Blood into a minor Tradition benefit (though you'd have to nerf it kinda hard. Probably just make it into a morale bonus against creatures of the Abyss, and a once per day temp HP thing based on when you get killed). The question would be what Discipline to pair with the Tradition, since the two Exiles and Hawkwood don't use TWF. Though that's probably because they were just members of the rank and file Legion, and not the Watchers themselves.
>>46782105
What killed you this time?
In my game, our paladin has been rolling terribly since the beginning, and though he isn't exactly optimized, it's not like his build is retarded or anything. He's getting shown up nearly every battle by the summoner's eidolon. It's almost entirely an incredible string of bad luck.
I want to cheer him up / make fun of him in a really passive aggressive way by hiring a level 1 NPC bard on as a minstrel to follow us. He'd sing songs about the paladin and do bardic performance during fights from the back to help him maybe hit something ever.
Are there rules for this? How much would I pay this NPC. I'd be willing to pay upfront and provide a potion each of expeditious retreat and invisibility in case things go poorly.
>>46780802
Oh, I see. I'm just saying that the games I associate with collaborative storytelling also tend to be decried as SJW games; I've got no dog in this fight besides that.
>>46782200
Guess it would help to say we're playing Kingmaker. In our games I'm usually either a spell level 9 caster or a spell level-6 progression caster but for this I was playing a Ghost Rider Cavalier and was enjoying the Overrun fun I was having with it before the TPK.
I currently have a Goblin Spellslinger 1/Enigma Mesmerist 3 rolled up to just do stupid stuff with the invisibility stare, which I had planned to make use of reach spell to just shoot bestow curses and that kind of crap. His spellbook is just a coloring book. Then the "hype" I had for that died away as the other players started listing what they wanted to play as I realized we're starting to miss some key roles.
I dunno, something that's fun, does stupid things, not overshadowing the rest of the group with tons of damage™ but does enough to be helpful.
>>46782285
Let the Paladin take Leadership. Conversely, I think the cost of a Hireling is listed in the Goods and Services section of the Equipment chapter of the Core Rulebook
>>46782285
>summoner's eidolon
Dude what did you expect? that fucker reks face.
>>46782047
Every undead in the PRD is described as "default behavior: attack living."
Otherwise you're right. Most of the fiend races are redundant or boring and nobody uses them.
>>46782048
>>46782211
Oh god yes.
>>46782105
I'm ripping off another anon from a previous thread, but focus on Equipment Trick (cloak) and be Unchained Rogue as Thug or Rake archetype. It sounds brilliant. Be the night. Make criminals afraid of the dark in this town again.
>>46782211
kek. Just kek. Specially CE.
>>46782048
Pic related.
>>46782388
Are we sure Dragonlance wasn't just the work of a disgruntled stained-glass-window designer? Like, really sure?
>>46782423
This is actually the simplified Dragonlance cosmology too, it can get more complicated than this.
>>46782388
How about this?
Our male witch of shadows can take down the whole party 1vs1 and at least 2 members against the whole party before dying thanks to our oracle... Its pathfinder disbalance this serious?
>Beaming
>Price +1 bonus; Aura faint evocation; CL 10th
>DESCRIPTION
>Restriction Only ranged weapons can have the beaming ability.
>Once per day, as a swift action, a beaming weapon creates a number of glowing orbs equal to the weapon’s enhancement bonus. The orbs float around the wielder’s head like a halo and fire rays of light at the wielder’s foes. Once per round when the wielder makes an attack or full-attack with the beaming weapon, the wielder can expend one orb as a free action to fire a beam of searing light at any target within range. The orbs remain until expended or until the wielder sleeps.
Okay, so can I slap this on a Musket or Throwing Javelin? And should I?
I'm pretty tempted to go full beamspamming mahou shoujo
So assuming it's 4816 AR, the surface of Golarion got rekt by a major cataclysm (think if the gods and demons decided to re-enact the Great War from Fallout), and most knowledge of pre-disaster history is lost to the Eyries (basically floating cities made of old airships nailed together, sometimes built around sky castles belonging to Good Cloud Giants).
Which of the traditional gods would still be relevant to the new airborne populace?
>>46782490
Pathfinder is far from balanced but it's also not a PvP sort of game. Class balance is mostly determined by how well they contribute *to the party* in a dungeon with monsters, hazards and villains.
>>46782511
Any of them that still granted domains? They're gods, anon, they don't become 'irrelevant' depending on where you live. Hell, the churches would be more powerful than ever, because the outsiders they were bros with wouldn't have lost any knowledge.
>>46782507
Okay, so can I slap this on a Musket or Throwing Javelin?
Yes, both are treated as ranged weapons. The javelin is kinda iffy though on ruling. But you can just suck your DM's dick so you can keep your Raging Heart.
And should I?
I suggest rolling a psyarm.
PsyArm treats their Mind Blades as ranged weapons, so you can slap Beaming on it with Personalized Trick.
Now with a +5 WIS, you have 3 sets of mindblades. (light, one-hander, two-hander) 5 sets if you took the mind daggers, and doubled if you took additional configurations blade skill.
Its very possible to have 50(d8) glowing orbs of friendship beams ready to reduce anything to ashes.
>>46782576
>they don't become irrelevant
Tell that to Lissala and the Peacock Spirit. Still, I must concede the relative soundness of your point.
I initially asked because I can't see, for instance, Besmara or Hanspur being of much use to people whose only contact with water is bringing it in from the Plane, having a Create Water trap set up, or harvesting condensation from clouds. By the same token, with as little farmland as there'd be, what would people need Erastil for?
>>46780579
>Gygax
>realistic ecosystems
You're talking about a guy who literally put a McDonalds in one of his dungeons once because the players kept asking him where the monsters got their food.
>>46782747
That is a gloriously passive-aggressive response.
>>46782747
>You're talking about a guy who literally put a McDonalds in one of his dungeons once because the players kept asking him where the monsters got their food.
Why does this sound like it would make a hilariously fun anime show?
>inb4 Hataraku Maou or Dungeon Meshi
>>46782747
I thought it was somebody writing for a Tunnels and Trolls scenario (Rat on a Stick).
>>46782795
>inb4 Harataku Maou
H-how did you know I was going to mention that?
What's the verdict on Armor Master's Handbook?
>>46782847
A mighty MEH echoed through the halls of the ages.
>>46782847
Mediocre. Some good stuff, but mostly trash. A huge let down, overall.
>>46782847
Actually worthless. Fighters automatically get a free headbutt attack now, that's it.
>>46782795
That would be hilarious.
The MC could be a broke and hungry murderhobo adventurer who collapses while monster hunting, only to be saved and then hired to work for McDungeons for food.
There'd be a busty Halfling girl who works the counter, a shy succubus, an orcbro at the grilling station, etc.
>>46782953
>busty Halfling girl who works the counter
Popura?
>>46782953
Why do people act like Succubi being among them is totally normal and okay? Like even in fantasy settings, high-magic ones like PF, it's literally 100% guaranteed bad news and murders.
>>46782953
>a shy succubus
She absolutely NEEDS to wear a modest turtleneck and have large round glasses.
>>46783009
That many people played, or at least heard of Planescape.
>>46782953
jesus fuck I need this
>>46782995
no, that was a different show. burgertits and poplar would totally be best buds, though.
>>46783009
Because gap moe. She COULD murder your soul, but she is instead shy, quiet and recoils from any kind of contact.
>>46783023
Look at this nigerian gentleman of splendid taste.
>>46782953
>McDungeons
>Keleshite Fried Chickcharney
kek, I'm gonna throw these things in my next session.
kek, gonna throw this in my next session.
>>46783046
And she's just a perfectly stereotypical part of a motley adventurer pub full of varied faces. What if it was some other demon? Would they serve drinks to meek nerdy balors?
>>46783023
>She absolutely NEEDS to wear a modest turtleneck and have large round glasses.
This is best done if she's exceptionally voluptuous, and even with her thick wool turtleneck the bust is obvious.
>>46783023
>She absolutely NEEDS to wear a modest turtleneck and have large round glasses
Lucy? Good taste my nig
Come to think of it, a dungeon McDonalds is probably more the work of a redeemed Gluttony demon than a place to find good succubutts.
>>46783046
>>46782995
Just make the busty Halfling Poplar, god dammit.
>>46783094
>you will never meet a shy balor in a turtleneck and round glasses
Why even adventure?
>>46783124
>>46783140
Funny thing
Both Working! and Servant x Service had the same author.
>>46783124
Such best girl.
>>46783140
I'm okay with it, honestly. Does that mean Satou is a High Elf or some such nonsense?
>inb4 kekelf laughing at halfling
>>46782953
>the deep fryer itself hosts the consciousness of a Fire Elemental
>he talks like he's from Kentucky
I want to watch that anime with the wizardgirl that you guys always talk about... so where do I get animes?
>>46783124
Lucy aCUTE!
C
U
T
E
!
>>46783208
>so where do I get animes?
From Japan.
>>46783204
>>46782953
OrcBro and LewdElf should make a cameo!
>>46782953
We need a drawfag in here, stat!
Lets start making a 4koma out of this.
How do I give my character meaningful flaws? I'm starting a new character and for the longest time I've just been known as, "The optimizer." and it hasn't exactly been a problem, I haven't broken up a game or anything. I just want to make a character who's a character instead of a bundle of stats.
>>46783278
Develop a backstory for your character, or roll on a chart to randomly develop one and base a character on that.
>>46783124
>>46783210
I dont know who this is and I wish to rectify that failing. Please assist.
>>46783278
>How do I give my character meaningful flaws?
HE'S ADDICTED TO MASTURBATION.
>>46783278
Right his story about who he is first, then give that character mechanics. That's really all there is to it.
>>46783293
Servant X Service
Lucy a Best Girl.
>>46783229
please
I am helpless.
>>46783293
Lucy Kimiko Akie Airi Shiori Rinne Yoshiho Chihoko Ayano Fumika Chitose Sanae Mikiko Ichika Yukino Reina Eri Ai Tamiko Chikage Emilia Julia Shizue Erina Chisa Yumeka Natsuki Ranran Rieko Setsuri Chikako Azumi Marina Hideko Chiaki Misaki Naomi Campbell Miku Yuka Masako Sachiko Nana Mutsumi Haruka Yuna Shimako Yukie Rin Sakura Kanna Wakana Hazuki Honami Ruri Mihane Momoka Himari Nozomi Futaba Mayuyu Yamagami
>>46783311
I really need to rewatch it. I still listen to the OP every now and then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YlW5BXNG0w
>>46783327
Nyaa
>>46783311
>>46783327
This is a blue board, anon.
>>46783364
>tfw you will never boob-pillow or use boob-pillows.
>>46783327
Who's the girl?
>>46783380
Feels good
>>46783339
Jesus christ I thought you were joking.
>>46783208
Megumin?
>>46783411
Flat chest isn't justice, though.
Boobs are nice.
>>46783429
Yes. I've already searched the name and gotten Konosuba (and its long name) but realized I don't actually know where people actually acquire full anime serieses in the modern age. I come from a time where shit like Limewire was how you got things, I am sorry.
>>46783524
It's on crunchyroll.
>>46783524
lrn2torrent
How do I build the Dancer of the Boreal Valley as my character in the next game i'm in?
Can a party of APL 6 (more like 5 due to low magic item) has a fighting chance against CR11 enemy?
>>46783651
Dervish Defender Warder or Mystic with Thrashing Dragon, and Perform (Dance.)
>>46783683
Depends on the enemy, the party, and how smart the party fights.
>>46783651
You realize some of us don't know what the shit you're talking about, right?
>>46783683
Possible depending on the enemy and the party, but not probable and you shouldn't
>>46783683
Depends. CR is broken; a proper CR 11 enemy that is made to challenge level 10-11 parties would be on the extreme end of a difficult encounter normally, but for all we know it's a level 11 core monk, which is technically CR 11 by the rules but should be fairly easy.
>>46777940
It's not nearly as fun as you'd think.
>>46783651
fat ass talent
>>46783812
>tfw no fat asses in party
So my DM recently told me we will be doing a gestalt game re entry at level 15, and I've decided to be a druid monk. I have never been a monk, nor have I ever been a druid. I want to spend most of my combat time turning into different animals than punching. Any feat suggestions?
>>46783552
I did it! I'm the best!
>>46783927
Natural spell is mandatory, and take unchained monk.
>>46783927
There's a feat that allows you to add your monk's unarmed strike damage to natural attacks like claws. Grab that if you want your kung fu while wildshaped.
Where are all these DMs who run gestalt games, and why don't I know any of them?
>>46784027
They're almost all online-only.
>>46784027
I am druid monk anon and we're doing it in person. I just know these people IRL because playing online is garbage.
>>46783721
>>46783730
>>46783731
Erodaemon
>>46784027
I run Gestalts, but I impose several houserules to keep the powerlevels from going off the rails.
>>46784110
If your GM is an idiot and puts it out in direct combat against you, target its shitty fort save. If not, you're probably fucked.
>>46784128
Tell.
>>46784110
DR/10 Good and Silver is going to hurt melee pretty bad. And even if the attacks don't do much damage, they're still guaranteed hits and will drop the players fairly quickly with the charisma drain.
>>46784162
Even if you do target the Fort save it's still going to take a 13-16 on a caster level roll for the spell to not be worthless.
>>46784206
Yeah, SR's a bitch, but it's still the best chance they have.
>>46784177
Cannot gestalt two classes with spellcasting
Cannot gestalt two classes with stacking abilities (sneak attack, studied strike, etc)
Cannot stack the levels of two existing features (animal companion, familar, etc)
Cannot cast arcane spells in heavy armor unless you have a feat for it, or unless you rolled a magus
Cannot use other abilities like Smite, Performance, Form Mind Blades, Recover Psionic Focus, etc while raging (This actually happened)
Its a long list, and it grows based on the player's builds.
>>46784344
Interesting.
>>46781736
So long as one is 'alive' they all have regeneration 0/- which IIRC heals 1 point of hp * hd / hour (as all damage is technically 'non-lethal). Wolfs blood was a ritual that gave them all regen 0/- and it can only be broken by bringing them all to negative HP at the same time.
However they are also of the particular dark souls undead type that states that even when they die they re-animate after a certain period (generally considered to be the same spot) but they suffer 1 point of permanent wis loss (can be offset but it is difficult). So it takes a massive amount of effort to kill them - which is why they were imprisoned in coffins instead.
Beyond that I'd say they have powerful build, use thrashing dragon / scarlet throne / primal fury, and they wield a flaming longsword and a refluffed swordbreaker that are considered a 'pair'.
>>46784344
>Cannot gestalt two classes with spellcasting
Should be fine, the progression is faster, yeah, but they can only cast one spell a round until higher levels.
>Cannot gestalt two classes with stacking abilities (sneak attack, studied strike, etc)
>Cannot stack the levels of two existing features (animal companion, familar, etc)
Allow them to, just make it so it only takes the fastest progression
>Cannot cast arcane spells in heavy armor unless you have a feat for it, or unless you rolled a magus
Stupid restriction (sorry, my personal opinion), because it's awesome, and actually not that useful because of all the detriments.
>Cannot use other abilities like Smite, Performance, Form Mind Blades, Recover Psionic Focus, etc while raging (This actually happened)
Smite and performance should definitely be allowed, personally. Because Barbarians definitely smite, if not Smite. Also warchant barbarians are awesome.
Don't take that as pooing on your rules, though.
>>46784406
>Cannot gestalt two classes with stacking abilities (sneak attack, studied strike, etc)
You could potentially rocket tag somebody with a rogue sneak attack + ninja sneak attack + ninja assassinate actually, so this is an understandable rule by the DM
>>46783208
I shouldn't spoonfeed. But it's konosuba and you can find it on kissanime if you must watch online.
It's adapted by deen however, and deen is shit - so basically it exists to sell light novels.
>>46784548
Well with sneak attack you should take the fastest progression, so the rogue and ninja wouldn't stack in that regard. Well, that's one interpretation, but it's one I would enforce. And I don't see how the Assassinate Ninja Trick has to do with anything..
