Imperial Space Marine Will Single Handedly Destroy Entire Competitive Eldar Builds And Killed My Family Edition
First for Sisters
Second for all the shit TC forgot
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
Can someone repost the new Space Marine psychic powers? The archived thread fell of the grid already.
I . . . don't know why I made this but now I'm intrigued
CSM CAD
sorcerer
>ML2, spell familiar, force sword
30 cultists
30 cultists
3 spawn
3 spawn
3 spawn
5 havocs
>4 lascannons
5 havocs
>4 lascannons
5 havocs
>4 lascannons
Crimson Slaughter Allies
sorcerer
>ML2, balestar, force sword
10 cultists
3 spawn
5 havocs
>4 lascannons
1500 points
Comments, criticisms?
>>46767761
They seem popular in the extra threads today. What gives?
>>46767779
needs moar spawn
i'm considering buying one of the squad of steel legion troopers. is this a bad idea?
>>46767840
Why only one?
>>46767785
I like where this is going, everything looks pretty dope to me
>fixed morale
>8 point plasma pistols, this guy gets it
heavy bolters shouldn't be 10 points for any codex though IMO, they're not as good as CSM's autocannons for sure. They should be like 7 points or something, or have better stats.
Also
>Tzeentch banner
>soul blaze
can we just pretend soul blaze doesn't exist, it's such a shit rule that it adds bookkeeping for no benefit and actively makes the game less fun. I would say the 5++ is good but instead of soul blaze maybe give them . . . idk. Also close combat CSM really need a transport that isn't a land raider so maybe make a Khorne ability that lets you charge from any vehicle?
>>46767840
I say get them while you still can
>>46767779
If you want to spam Spawn, use R&H. Their Spawn are 55 points for 3.
>>46767848
Soul Blaze was mostly just there since its the de facto Tzeentch special rule.
Charging from Rhino's is either going to be an upgrade for Rhinos or a formation benefit. Not sure yet.
>>46767857
I mainly made this list for the weird combination of having a shitload of havocs perched in my DZ with lascannons while spawns and cultists run forward supported by sorcerers which gives me a strange but not unwelcome mental image
does R&H allow me to field shitloads of lascannons with reasonable BS somehow?
>>46767857
And greater spawn
>>46767785
Bump the Aspiring champion up to 18 points to make the 5 units cost 70, give him access to melee and ranged weapons. Champion upgrade confers artificer armor to sweeten the pot a bit rather than looking like an upgrade you absolutely have to take.
Out of curiosity what are the stats on chainaxes? Nobody in my meta actually plays chaos.
I'm quite new to list building but, I'm playing a casual 1850 Pt game on Vassal against an unknown army (probably leaning towards another marine army or perhaps Necrons, which I don't know shit about). I've tried my best to have a take all comers army but you guys can tell me how balanced it is.
I'm obviously playing as Space Marines, but I'm not sure if I'm going to play as either Ultramarines or Imperial Fists, although I'm leaning towards Ultramarines because I really want my Sternguard to hit when they fire their combi-grav.
+HQ+
>Terminator Captain w/Thunderhammer [145 Pts]
+Troops+
>Scout Squad w/Camo-cloaks, teleport homer, melta bomb [75 Pts]
>Scout Squad w/Camo-cloaks, teleport homer, melta bomb [75 Pts]
+Fast Attack+
Stormtalon w/Assault Cannon and Lascannon [125 Pts]
Stormtalon w/Assault Cannon and Lascannon [125 Pts]
+Heavy Support+
>Vindicator Squadron (3xVindicators) [360 Pts]
>Predator [75 Pts]
>Predator [75 Pts]
+Elites+
>Sternguard (7-strong) w/7x Combi-gravs & Drop Pod [259]
>Sternguard (7-strong) w/7x Combi-gravs & Drop Pod [259]
>Assault Terminator Squad (7 strong) w/thunder hammers and storm shields [280]
>>46767961
LAZYPOSTING
>>46767947
Aspiring Champ was intended to have access, just forgot to edit the wargear listings.
Artificer armor on CSM? You high.
Asp. Champion being the same cost as the squad is based on SM Tactical Sergeant.
>>46768003
More like I'm expecting to be disappointed by the answer and don't have the will. So yeah, you got me there.
>>46767961
they're just AP4 for 8 points, which is why nobody fields them
any zerker can take them for 3 points though. still not worth it.
Anyone can provide a Hammer and Anvil pdf? Google is a monumental failure and it seems to be missing from the databases that SHOULD be in the OP.
did the internet steel apocrypha or not yet?
>>46768024
You'd think they'd be like AP4, +1S, and maybe 2 points for berserkers or something. Definitely disappointed.
>>46768036
>piracy
I don't think bloody think the Imperial Truth allows it.
>>46767986
That's a lot spent on an HQ.. You could almost buy two more barebones predators for that
>>46768061
I aint saying a terminator captain with a thunder hammer is all that but
>145 points is a lot for an HQ
>at 1850 level no less
u shiggy wot m8
>>46767961
AP4 STR user for 8 points 3 for Zerks
Only time I run them is when I play Crons because I can chop the fuckers right up and move on to the next squad. Useless against Space Marines though unless your opponent fields some kind of all scout army.
>>46768004
>Artificer armor on CSM? You high.
A man can always dream can't he?
>>46768077
Okay maybe that was a bit of a stupid comment. It was the only thing that stuck me out as being particularly inefficient. The beefed up Assault Terminator Squad probably doesn't need a captain to roll with them (although a Chaplain might help).
Personally I'd get the Master of the Forge to beef up a piece of terrain, send the scouts in their and all of a sudden he'll have a difficult to shift locator beacon
>>46768095
Even then berserkers should chop up basic troop tax scouts without them. R-Right? I have a feeling should is a wishful word.
>>46768122
They will. Weight of WS5 St5 attacks will deal with most 4+ save units without the chainaxes being necessary. Necrons are a bit of an exception due to Reanimation, so they're going to be useful there. But that's a fringe case.
>Ehranth had his power maul in his hands. It was not a weapon favoured by most Astral Knights, who were raised to fight with swords and all but worshipped the elegance of fine bladework, but it suited Ehranth perfectly. Ehranth had been almost the height and bulk of a Space Marine before he was recruited into the Chapter, and grew up battering his opponents into submission.
Pre-teens are this large in 40K? Jesus Christ.
So has any saint scanned the new chaos suppliments? need to know which i want to buy
Angels of Death download when?
>>46768315
Considering how much taller humans have gotten in the last hundred years I'd say 6'5"+ wouldn't be too strange for the upper classes of the imperium. At 11 Belial had a fair fight with a chaplain, which was no doubt thanks to his upbringing and caste.
>>46768122
Not really. Equal points on equal points, the Berzerkers win with the charge, but Scouts win if they charge.
What does it mean?
>>46768388
it's an ork twist on a line from monty python and the quest for the holy grail
knights who say ni
>>46768388
Orks are being ported to AoS then phased out of 40k.
>>46768388
Hopefully: some new model for orks. Or reboxing or something.I live in absurd hope for mek gunz going three to a box and ending up costing less per individual gun.
I fear: Rules for orkanaughts in that superheavy game, and that's it.
>>46768388
Completely out there suggestion: the Battle For Vendros ork kits.
Nah, just kidding. They'd never release those before the marine kits.
>>46768320
Buy neither. Black Legion supplement is half of the upcoming Wulfen 2. Crimson Slaughter is a bunch of shitty formations coupled with straight nerfs.
>>46768520
Well I know we got fucked again, thats GW for you but there are a few bits here and there that are not total suck.
also why would black legion being in wulfen 2 mean anything, I am not a furfag
>>46768436
>Rules for orkanaughts in that superheavy game, and that's it.
Sounds oddly likely.
>>46768550
>also why would black legion being in wulfen 2 mean anything
Because it means you will get the second half of the rules. DOOOOY!
>>46768573
Ahh i thought they were just going to put the black legion into the wulfen2 book, not add more, tho I would ask for proof
>>46768583
There's a series of Black Legion novellas ending in October, which is when Wulfen 2 comes out. CSM were missing from Wulfen 1. Black Legion supplement lacks a decurion.
>>46768364
>scouts win if they charge
u wut bruh
pic related is scouts charging zerkers, scouts on top. 19 scouts @ 209 points (an unrealistic scenario, 1.9 squads are charging apparently) vs 10 zerkers @ 200 points
maybe you're forgetting that zerkers have counter-attack which is autopass in 7th edition. 10 berzerkers krump 19 scouts charging them, but a squad of 10 scouts will get straight splattered
>>46768752
silly goose your forgetting the free razorbacks marines get
>>46767898
You can get nine Rapier destroyers for 240 points, and can add more spawn, while also forming 50-man blobs of 3-point mutants which can get 4 attacks on the charge with the power of drugs
>>46768436
>I fear: Rules for orkanaughts in that superheavy game, and that's it.
Oh dear god that makes perfect sense doesn't it.
>>46768752
>10 Scouts (110) charge 5 Berzerkers (105)
>Scouts have 30 attacks, 15 hits, 7.5 wounds, 2.5 dead berzerkers
>Berzerkers have 16 attacks, 10.67 hits, 5.33 wounds, 2.67 dead scouts
>Scouts pass or fail, doesn't matter
>Round 2, 7 scouts have 14 attacks, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds, 1.17 dead berzerkers
>3 Berzerkers have 7 attacks, 4.67 hits, 2.33 wounds, 1.17 dead scouts
>Round 3, 6 scouts have 12 attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds, 1 dead Berzerker
>1 Berzerker has 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound, half a scout.
After round three all the Berzerkers are dead and the scouts are reduced to half strength.
IIRC, units that fail the morale check on a tank shock fall back?
Is tank shocking guard blobs efficient?
So, I'm trying to get into this 40K thing but my grasp on actual play is weak (on account of not ever playing).
I like Imperial Guard/Militarum Tempestus. Right now what I have in mind is:
CCS with full retinue
30-man infantry blob + Commissar
2 sets of veterans with Grenadier and Chimeras
2 Leman Russ
2 Field Artillery Battery
2 Hydra Platform Battery
Allied Detachment of Militarum Tempestus
MT CS with meltas
2 Scions with meltas
What I thought I would do is use the 30 man blob to guard the artillery while the Russes and veterans drive up the gut. The scions would deep strike in the back field and destroy high value targets/squat on objectives.
How badly will this collapse if I try to play it?
>>46768926
This is ignoring one death or so from bolt pistol fire before the charge too isn't it?
Is there any evidence in the fluff that the Tau killed the Poctroon, or did they really just coincidently die out once the tau started oogling their homeworld?
>>46768963
Correct
Just make sure your vets have melta and your platoon infantry has flamers and vox and you should be alright.
Might also be wise to keep the CCS without the retinue and just chuck either plasma or melta in there along with a vox and maybe even a chimera to save your T3 warlord from getting instagibbed by S6
I also prefer Vendettas to Hydras since they do AA as well as threaten your opponent big time. You can also chuck a special weapons squad with sniper rifles in there and drop them on an objective for a cheap objective holder
Other than that it looks alright
>>46767910That's Daemons only
If you eat an Eldar or an Ork , does it make you a cannibal? Is there any side-effects?
>>46768956
Scion command squad doesn't need 4 extra meltas. Give them volley guns to keep your distance and reliably give orders.
>>46769048
All the sentient races in 40k were seeded by the same autist space frogmen, probably from the same stock too, so it wouldn't be cannibalism per se, but like eating a chimpanzee or marmoset.
Orks are mostly fungus though, so no.
>>46768752
>38
The Scouts make 76 attacks on charge, not 38. 19 * 2 (pistol + CCW) * 2 (Charge).
>>46768929
Not if they have a commissar.
>>46769076
Hurr, I'm a idiot. 19 * 3. 57 attacks.
>>46769054
If he really, really wants something with AV dead, then a command squad with meltas is the best i've ever used. Land raiders, orkanaughts, even Knights, once those boys turn up and get the twin-link order to punch four meltas up a tailpipe, its gonna ruin whatever is hit, as even 6 hull points is just two explodes results away. While four volley guns is a great thing to bunker up and issue orders with, it's only good at killing MEQ
>>46769076
assuming you take CCW
>>46769041
Vets have plasmas because I wanted a little more range and the Scions are already packing meltas; is the +1 S/+1 AP a huge deal against anything but vehicles?
I'll take another look at the CCS. I was hope to keep him safe mostly by way of distance/cover because he was going to be squatting on the artillery and giving it orders.
Hydra Platform Battery is FW; I took it because it's 50 points for 2 heavy2, skyfire, twin-linked autocannons that ignore jink and supersonic. It's just immobile (and not a vehicle).
>>46769054
Good point. I'll load him up with volley guns instead and squat him on objectives while the normal scions search and destroy.
>>46769117I had thought they were bolt pistol / CCW vanilla.
I want to get back into table top, how can Khorne Deamonkin be competitive on the table? I want to spill blood for the blood god but basically giving up the shooting phase and psy phase for Khorne Bezerkers that have to pay to get chainaxes seems handicapped.
>>46769152
Have you read this?
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)
>>46769159
>https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Khorne_Daemonkin(7E)
Im wayyyy out of the tabletop loop, ill look into it thanks man
>>46769131
>+1 S/+1 AP a huge deal against anything but vehicles?
Apart from maybe some select monstrous creatures, no it's not. I personally like melta for my vets because it doesn't have Gets Hot and it is a little bit more versatile at expense of range.
>Hydra Platform Battery is FW
sorry man I read your initial post wrong and thought it was something else. My bad
>>46768436
>>46768572
>>46768907
That would be actually awesome. Why? Slight chance that they would turn 'Nauts into superheavy walkers.
>>46769139
Shotguns, boltguns,CCW are all free.
>>46769152
Gorepack and minimum Slaughter cult. Bring in a Cyklopia Cabal on bikes to run with the Pack.
>>46769152
You gotta go fast with bikes and hounds, use formations for bonuses, and summon bloodthirsters and princes. That said, barring the /tg/ boogeymen of bikermarines, wraithspam, multiple canopteks and riptide wings, KDK is pretty good, playing similar to Space wolves with extra bloodthirsters. You probably won't be winning tournaments, but its a solid mid-tier army
>>46769180
>army based around no psykers
>just bring some psykers!
>>46769180
>>46769185
So basically move fast and dont allocate too many points in one spot because every unit is a blood tithe point?
> cant loose so long as something is dying?
>>46769217
Pretty much. read up on what formations are and how the decurion system works, then re-read that section of the codex until its imprinted on your brain, then build a slaughtercult and gorepack, then go from there
>>46768388
It means all Ork guns will get the gets hot rule.
>>46768972
Ever see one of those movies where aliens died once exposed to human germs? Think that but with Tau.
>>46769302
Except the Tau have the technology to create those germs. And the complete lack of empathy required to use them.
>>46769208
He asked how to be competitive. Good luck being competitive with shit shooting and no psykers.
>>46769594
Are you implying Tau don't naturally produce those germs because they lack empathy?
>>46768388
>If you put Nobz in a 'Naught, it becomes a SUPERHEAVY WALKER
>>46767898
Deepstrikers will have a field day with you
Obliterators are just flat out the better choice.
beginner question, in an 1,000 game will I always (or almost always) be wiped out if I field troops (specifically sisters) without transports? Assuming a relatively small playing field.
I've got $178 worth of TGG2 sisters coming soon, but if I wanted to get transports for them all I'd have to buy 6 rhinos, and convert two into immolators. Not to mention the exorcists. I don't think I'm going to be able to get them all at once, so I'm just wondering if I can play before I pick up the transports?
>>46769779
No. Obliterators deliver half the ranged firepower in exchange for increased durability to small arms and flexibility. If you want nothing but dakka, Havocs are superior. Neither is particularly good.
>>46769728
Supa'evy walker: Just a regular walker but with SnP.
>>46769872
Nah, SnP and FnP.
So I haven't been keeping up with 40k lately.
Do Nids still suck?
>>46769896
Don't forget Furious Charge.
>>46769912
Yes. Second worst codex in the game.
>>46769845
You can, but it will be very difficult with sisters as they're semi-elite troops but are only t3. You'll need multiple really big blobs to footslog along, and it'll be a pretty weak army to be completely honest. Footsloggers generally need to be either really cheap (guard, cultists, renegades, gaunts) or survivable and fast (hounds, spawn, nobz in a naught).
>>46769845
You inability to effectively use your meltas and Flamers will be a bigger issue.
>>46769923
>find 40k through DoW
>think nids are cool
>find out they suck on the tabletop
>mfw don't play tabletop anyway because it's too expensive
>nobody in Greece knows what 40k is anyway
>>46769931
>>46769936
Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. Guess I'll put some money aside for rhinos... Thanks.
>>46769923
>>46769923
>whoa whoa whoa, don't forget about Orks and Chaos Marines and unlike Deldar they have a single very powerful unit that is very hard to deal with.
I'd say they're the best of the worst if only for flyrants.
>>46767785
>ws 5 loyalists for the same price
>cheaper weapon upgrades
>5++ invuln for 2ppm
I know chaos could use a buff but really?
What does a meltagun shot actually look like? At first I pictured like a gob of plasma, but then I figured that'd be a plasma gun. Then a laser, but that would be a lasgun.
Is it like a sustained laser? I know lasguns are semi automatic, is a melta like a "hold the trigger and point at the thing you want to melt"
>>46768388
disapointment, anon. it means disapointment.
>>46769975
Chaos Space Marines and Dark Eldar are vying for King of Shitsville. CSM have some nice FW options. Dark Eldar can do well in metas that aren't chock-full of Ignores Cover.
Tyranids have Flyrants and that's about it.
Orks have Mek Gunz and that's it.
>>46770006
Like a jet engine or a fiery beam is what I've mostly seen in official art.
>>46769953
I feel your feel bro.
I want so much start a IG ary but nobody in Brazil knows wtf W40K is and it's stupidly expensive to import from England
>>46769953
ETC is in Greece this year you know.
>>46769991
Actually these guys are cheaper than Tacticals. Tacticals have ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics, and Tactical Marines are still shit.
I'd assume anyone playing against these rules is using similarly priced melee weapons. Melee weapons in general are overpriced, although Wulfen pricing is too far in the other direction.
15 PPM for a WS 5 MEQ with a 5++ seems pretty fair to me.
>>46770006
https://youtu.be/-GA7gLHxL68?t=29s
>8th edition Space Marines
>Gravcannon is now salvo 2/4 24" for 40 points
>amp is 10 points more
>Gravguns are rapid-fire 18" for 20 points
>Grav Annihilator replaces the Grav-cannon on centurions and keeps the current cannon statline, also gets a Predator pattern
>Can now take Terminator Honour Guard, 3-5 2w terminators with all options, at 60 points base for stormbolter/powerfist, maximum of one per army
>Devestator Terminators are now a thing, four heavy weapon options per squad but I2 base and no melee options beyond a 5pt power sword
>Plasma pistols are reduced to 10 points everywhere
>First Company Phalanx is a decurion core being five of any sternguard, vanguard, honour guard or any termies, one terminator Honour guard, one captain/chaplain and one librarian/techmarine
>decurion bonus changes with what chapter tactics are being used, with ultras getting doctrines, Fists getting rerollable armour while in cover and better vehicle removal skills, Scars allowing bikes for vanguard/sternguard etc
Thoughts?
>>46770026
I... did not know that. Thanks m8. (I generally fail to keep up with news in the things I like)
>>46770006
according to the mmo eternal crusade, it looks like a less flamery....flamer. more narrow like a jet engine firing heat.
>>46769953
It is still a hobby, nothing is stopping you from collecting and painting a nice force of nids to be "your guys" while you play dawn of war or starcraft.
If you get really into the hobby and end up collecting a second army like most, you can invite friends over to play with the other one. Bam, you just created your local community.
>>46770041
Not him, but it really doesnt to me. 21 points and its more realistic, the problem is not melee pricing, its how good shooting is in comparison
>>46770006
It's a superheated beam that loses heat the further it extends. After a certain point it becomes inert as the beam loses coherency.
>>46770006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXkIP5QeyJM
>>46770092
Twenty-one points for 5++ MEQ is insane.
If I had to choose between making melee weapons more powerful or making them cheaper, I'd rather make them cheaper
What's the best way to do an Imperium Melee-based army?
Preferably able to ally with IG
>>46770075
Do space marines need more powerful options?
>>46769180
my point was scouts are bolter/pistol stock, and who the hell swaps the bolter for CCW. i only see them with sniper rifles/missile launcher
>>46770136
>daemon invuln, WS5 for one point more
Yeah, compare that to, say, assault marines and honestly tell me they won't be better, even with ATSKNF and chapter tactics factored in. A one-third chance to ignore a battlecannon or plasma shot is way better than rerolling ones with a bolter. And making things cheaper is a lazy option. Give them good options but make them pay for them
>>46770181
Coolio. Maybe you should read the whole discussion next time.
>>46770141
Spess wolves. Can do thunderwolves, stuff in an assault vehicle flier, and enough melee dreads that some will survive to turn 2 (especially with the shield) and assault shit.
>Imperium army
>Preferably able to ally with IG
Good job, Brother-Captain Tautologous.
>>46770191
Also consider these homebrew csm have ATSKNF equivalent anyway
>>46770159
I nerfed grav heavily, gave terminators a reason to exist and a way to use them without being awful, gave some more options to underused things and made the army more varied. Also, it gives a decurion-style core without just handing out free shit like bernie sanders, like the lazy-ass GW design team is doing at the moment
>>46770192
maybe you should suck my dick next time. I'm the one who posted the original stats with the pic and my point still stands
>>46770191
And other Chapter Tactics give Feel No Pain, which is superior most of the time, for one point less.
Correct, making them cheaper is the lazy option. Rebalancing the entire close combat armory of gamenis a bit beyond the scope of my CSM homebrew. I'm also leery of taking melee weapons through the same power creep shooting has been going through.
>>46770075
my thoughts are pretty much the opposite of everything you said. everything should get worse, not better. its already pointless to put models on the table at this time.
can't you fix all the balance issues by releasing a new points cost table and making overplayed models cost more?
>>46770219
It's ATSKNF lite. It lacks the auto-rally and behave as normal aspects of ATSKNF.
>>46770222
If we're discussing the relative CC strengths of two units, it makes sense to assume they're using the optimal loadouts assuming equal cost.
>>46770141
>>46770252
>And other Chapter Tactics give Feel No Pain
FnP (6+). That's a world of difference.
>>46770312
Red Scorps get FNP. Iron Hands get FNP (5+) in their decurion on top of a bunch of other benefits.
Hell, FNP 6+ is still better than 5++ in most cases.
>>46770294
fair enough, it's my fault for not taking that into account. but realistically, nobody fields CCW scouts so it's a bit of a moot point.
>>46770222
is right
>>46770192
you should suck dick.
>>46770252
Feel no pain 6+ is worse than a 5++ any day of the week with so many battecannons and such around, which are the real issue. Feel no pain simply isn't that great against most threats to power armour. Bump the price by three or so, and it's fine. As it is, its as ridiculous as free wargear and razorbacks. The ATSKNF is exactly that-the best bits of ATSKNF and +1 WS for a point. And with the lazyness, then make ways to get to combat easier, give options for transports, assault transports that arent land raiders, etc. Making things cheap is lazy, boring and pointless, make them good, give them an interesting rule or two, and add costs
>>46770075
>>46770220
You're only trying to fix things from a marine perspective.
Melee weapons should be cheaper overall, for all armies
Plasma pistols are too expensive right now
Grav needs a much larger change and hard nerf, it's just too good. No amount of minor changes will save it
Terminator armor as a whole needs something to compete with bike upgrades
Formations are not the answer to any of the games problems, if the codex/rules don't work properly then start there
>>46770351
Nobody fields Khorne Berserkers either so it's definitely a moot point.
>>46770359
Sick shitposting, brah. Better not let your mom see you on the internet unsupervised.
>>46770260
not that simple anon, either new factions or other , previously not as cost effective would become the new meta
>>46770361
Don't expect him to listen. He's been posting this shit in pretty much every 40k general thread for the past few days and gotten almost nothing but negative feedback.
>>46770363
What if Grav weapons wounded on a flat 4+?
>>46769070
Where do people get the idea that old ones are "frog-like" in appearance? I always see people depicting them as pepe looking fuckers but have never seen any official fluff stating how they looked. I thought the whole thing behind them was they were supposed to be mysterious higher level beings that transcend physical forms or some shit.
>>46770363
Melee weapons are fine, getting to combat is too difficult-a rearrangement of stuff like random charges needs to be done. I was changing the Space Marines codex, not re-writing the rules.
Plasma pistols being reduced to ten points everywhere means exactly that-everywhere
Thats a pretty major change to grav, its changed to a 10-point-per-shot with relentless not being quite as gamebreaking. Its good now without being broken.
Termie armour needs some buffs, i would rather it not become as broken as bike gangs are at the moment though, i meant to add that decurion bonuses give a bonus to any termie armour depending on CTs as well
Formations are fine and i like them, broken formations like double-demi, war convo and riptide spam are a problem
>>46770361
Feel no Pain is better against all small arms fire, and in all situations where you have a cover save against a lower strength low AP weapon.
The majority of shooting is not battle cannons. You're vastly overestimating the strength of a save that will often be as good or worse than cover.
Your alternate costs are absolutely absurd. 5PPM would be a 38% increase in cost for what is, under optimal conditions, only a 33% increase in survivability.
>>46770141
>Preferably able to ally with IG
All the best Imperium armies ally with IG. The buffs their priests give are ridiculous and such a low points cost too!
>>46770416
Overlap with the Slaan, which in Fantasy were the Old Ones' favoured servents/proxies. They existed in early 40k as well, and still get the occasional mention here and there, albeit as small colonies of aliens that have gone into hiding or regressed into degenerate primatives.
>>46770415
Response has been pretty evenly mixed, and I've been making adjustments.
>>46770363
This. Any time you attempt to fix anything in the game, a bunch of crying will start because "it's le too good because it's better than x in my codex!" without looking at the game holistically. Although there is some truth to it in the sense you really just need to fix the whole game to fix a codex, and the codex system should be scrapped altogether anyway.
what GW does for money
>sell codices in a retarded system where the rules get released at different times and cost an arm and a leg
what GW would do if they wanted to make a well-designed game
>actually put in the work to make the game balanced, release a new edition of 40k AND all of the army faction rules at the same time, so that they can all be tested together. also either include all factions in the main rulebook and get rid of the pages full of whitespace and bullshit like random pics of cherubs and put the rules there so you don't get to now charge $150 for your new book, or release them online. preferably both and just let collectors waste their dosh on rulebooks and let everybody else buy more models and less books that will be useless next edition
it could be argued that making an actually good game would also increase sales, but GW is a successful company and their business model seems to be FUCK YOU and it's working well so what do I know
So I'm about to start running a Dark Heresy game (1E because it was the only corebook we could find for cheap).
A few things:
- My players are quite new to RPGs in general. Do you think giving them a list of people available in the place we're starting would work? Not doing stats or anything, but something like "This is Miss Redline. She's a nurse", and let them pick from there. I've previously tried letting others go freefrom, and we end up with stupid shit like "this is Sigh, the silent assassin who is called sigh because that's all he does".
- What sort of low level stuff would you expect the Inquisition to send new mooks after?
- What houserules work, and improve the game significantly?
>>46769912
They're one of those codexes that have 1 good unit (the flyrant) so the only way to make them viable is to spam it. The rest of the units are just filler. They still have a chance to be competitive if you enjoy boring cookie cutter lists.
Also, dont be fooled by the fluff, nids ARE NOT an assault army. More a mid ranged shooting army.
First list I've ever done, 1000 points. CSM and Tzeentch themed so it's going to be shit besides my newbie choices, obviously:
HQ: Sorcerer w/ FW and PP, Mark of Tzeentch, Aura of Dark Glory, Melta Bomb, ML3, VotLW
Troops: 28 Cultists, 4 Autoguns
Elites: 1x Thousand Sons Squad, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Melta Bomb x 8 Rubrics
Heavy Support: 2x Havoc Squads, both with 4x Lascannon
Fast Attack: 3x Spawn
>>46770445
The biggest thing you can do for balance right off the bat is drop the goddamn WS 5
>>46767744
>grav cannon afes now heavy 1 large blast
>grav guns are now small blast, ass 1
>pistols are now 8"
is grav balanced now?
>>46769923
third.
> Orks
> CSM
I play nids and CSM and i have to give it to these guys, they're worse.
>>46770460
They've been hemorrhaging sales for a while now, and they've surrendered a ton of their market share.
>>46770460
I think GW releases their codices they way they do to stop pollacks from creating third party kits out of their garages to get the jump on them
>>46770495
>making it all spoilers
listen you fuck
dont do that
as for the list,you need to note that the TS are troops,and why on gods green earth do you have 4 auto guns in a unit of pistol/CCW cultist?
go with unit of autocannon on the havoks: allows you to pull double duty vs hoards
thousand sons are very very shit, just so you know
>>46770498
WS5 is the least of these rules' problems. WS5 on a unit which moves at infantry speed and has no access to an Assault Vehicle other than a 200+ point Land Raider in an edition so dominated by shooting is pretty much completely irrelevent. It's a nice way of representing the aggression and savagery that sets a Chaos Marine apart from a Loyalist, and isn't even close to unbalanced.
As I mentioned previously, the problem is shoving in masses of options that should be restricted to HQ or Elite units, or would be better off as Detachment-wide buffs instead of unit upgrades. WS5 is nice, it's fluffy, but 90% of the time it's utterly meaningless from a gameplay perspective.
>>46770538
>WS5 is nice, it's fluffy, but 90% of the time it's utterly meaningless from a gameplay perspective.
so very untrue
>>46770415
>What if Grav weapons wounded on a flat 4+?
Grav should just be completely redone. Something similar with how it works in 30k
The difference is grav should be single shot pistol, gun as small blast, cannon as large blast
From there grav guns are naturally ap 4 and ignore cover, wound on armor save
But, rolls of 6's make grav ap 2
Probably the only way to really fix them, against vehicles they only do a hull point on 5's 6's because a small focus of gravity isn't a fucking lascannon, oh and no immoblize
>>46770429
>Melee weapons are fine
Plasma gun 15 points
Power sword 15 points
Best case situation the plasma gun fires twice than overwatches the squad with the power sword
Those hits happen before the sword even gets a chance to swing, and the plasma will normally wound on 2's, while the sword will wound on 4's.
Shooting is far and above better because of this. It's simple math
>>46770495
Take the autoguns off the cultists, they have to all switch, then lower their unit count. Also consider just taking 2 squads of 10 guys
Take another unit of Thousand sons, shrink the other squad down just a little bit if you have to
Merge the havoc squad into a 10 man with 4 lascannons, or make the squad 2 units of 5 guys with only 2 lascannons each
Add more spawn, consider giving the sorcerer a bike/jump pack so he can roll with the squad
Would be a decent list
>>46770500Fucking hilarious that I basically posted that
Im trying to write a nasty knights list at 1500 points,can anyone think of something worse (excluding tau or wraith knight spam)
list goes as follows
Baronial court
-Baron errant with stormspear (410)
-Knight Atropas mechanicus with ocular augs (445)
-Knight geranitus (500)
Allied detachment C:SM
-techmarine on a bike (85)
-5 scouts with snipers (60)
1500 points exactly
>>46770434
>38% increase
nice ignore of anything to do with ATSKNF-lite and costs. Look at other stuff other than tactical marines for costage and special rules. Does anyone else get 8 point power weapons/plasma pistols? no. Keep your stuff realistic, they might not be worth 15 points but thats all everyone else has. Free Flakk missiles? Once again, stupid. Learn to take criticism if you post your ideas.
The things most people actually point at power armour is ap3 blasts-unless there is nothing else on the board, small arms fire is wasted on power armour and everybody knows this. The only faction where this isnt true is guard, and to base your entire argument on why FNP is great because blobguard is stupid. 5++ is a huge increase in survivability against any intelligent opponent
I would change your covenant upgrade costs to a flat cost per unit, and add +1WS as a seperate upgrade similar to a covenant. As it is, the variety of underpriced options means taking one is currently mandatory, so i upped the base price to compensate. Either increase the cost per covenant by two or three, increase the base price of CSM by three or four, or nerf your options
>>46770545
inorite, I'm tired of these WAAC assholes tabling everyone with khorne berzekers, it aint far I tell ya
>>46770568
>Bezerkers are shit
>'zerkers are WS5
>thus WS5 is shit
ya see why that logic is dumb right?
>>46770545
>Fucking hilarious that I basically posted that
Please explain why allowing a unit to hit on a 3+ instead of a 4+ in an edition where they have to be extremely lucky, or playing against an opponent who is functionally braindead, in order to get into combat in the first place is unbalanced.
>>46770498
I'd sooner drop the Hatred (Imperials) than the WS5.
>>46770565
>nice ignore of anything to do with ATSKNF-lite and costs. Look at other stuff other than tactical marines for costage and special rules. Does anyone else get 8 point power weapons/plasma pistols? no. Keep your stuff realistic, they might not be worth 15 points but thats all everyone else has. Free Flakk missiles? Once again, stupid. Learn to take criticism if you post your ideas.
not that guy but it's pretty shit logic to say "everybody else has shit things so yours should be poorly designed and shit too"
8 points are what plasma pistols *should* cost, so "b-but loyalists don't have it" isn't a good argument. just assume for this context that loyalists should get 8 point plasma pistols and then stop worrying about it because nobody is talking about loyalists, it's a chaos fix
>>46770589
>be extremely lucky, or playing against an opponent who is functionally braindead, in order to get into combat in the first place is unbalanced.
hahah you fucking what? what world of Taudar do you live in?
>>46770583
vanilla CSM are worse than zerkers so I'm still not following how you think giving them WS5 is broken. if the vanilla CSM in the codex right now had WS5 they would still be way worse than loyalists
>>46770611
I don't know, anon, what world of ultra-casual Slugga Boy spam lists do you you live in?
>>46770602
Changing your special snowflake codex to buff the same option everyone else gets is shit design, and as the other guy says, lazy
>>46770623
Vanilla CSM also cost heaps less than Zerkers and have functional shooting and better options, as well as being troops and being Imperial
>>46770623
never said it was broken,just not shit 90% of the time. WS 5 would actually be a ncie buff for CSM,
>>46770631
a normal one where people play a wide range of armys and try and have a good time?
>>46770473
Hey mate, check out the 40krpg thread, if it's still up.
>>46770639
nigger the loyalist codex gets everything chaos has for the most part and more, like free chapter tactics, grav weapons, and more variations of units, and half the units are strictly better. if you're really going to bitch about CSM getting buffs then you better debuff your mary sues as well
>>46770649
>a normal one where people play a wide range of armys and try and have a good time?
Rules shouldn't be balanced around the assumption that players are willing to comp themselves to make up for the designer's inadequacies. My group isn't particularly competitive - we have one Tau and one Eldar player, neither of whom run particularly objectionable lists - and use lots of terrain, but the vast difference in scope between close combat and shooting is painfully obvious. Even Dark Eldar, a fairly weak army, can wipe the floor with a melee force. Chaos Marines with WS5 base isn't even close to unbalanced, because it's very rarely actually going to matter.
>>46770498
>WS
>Mattering
>>46770534
>thousand sons are very very shit
Yeah, but they're fluffy as fuck so I want em
>>46770728
Good manFuck the meta I wanna have funAnd to do so I avoid playing faggots
>>46770460
>but GW is a successful company and their business model seems to be FUCK YOU and it's working well so what do I know
Which is the most peculiar of anomolies
>>46770498
>>46770718
It matters in that you can't get double +1 and be forced to hit on 5s.
I wish having higher weapon skill meant more, or at least just make it double their WS to force them to hit on 5s. it's stupid my bloodthirster, ws10, barely has an advantage over kings guard thunder wolf cavalry, ws5.
It would also mean low WS guys like tau would fight back at Orks and marines hitting on 5s.
>>46770728
it's cool if you want ksons, just know that playing fluffy CSM is absolutely suffering. don't expect to win too often because your ksons are strictly worse than sternguard and cost a lot more.
also a good rule of thumb is to specialize your units for a role, so either give all your cultists autoguns or none. overall the list isn't bad considering the codex you have to work with which is pretty low tier atm, get rid of the melta bombs/votlw on your sorcerer and give him a spell familiar, it lets you reroll failed psychic tests. spawn are good, lascannon havocs aint great but it's one of the few long ranged units in the book.
>>46770793
in an ideal world it would be a D10 game with a much greater variance in to hit/wound. but then again i guess sales would be lower because D10 are scary and might require some maths
>>46770795
I traded 4 of the 8 lascannons for autocannons like the other anon said, and also split the cultists into two 10-man squads. with spell familiar and jump pack on the sorc I have 48 spare points
>>46770714
so we should also ways assume that everyone if a dick and so we should match their power level? please, what we SHOULD be doing , if thats your concern, is nurfing tau and eldar.
>>46770793
Yeah, I'm with you there. Really don't get why the WS table is like it is, while you only need BS5 to hit on a 2+.
>>46770834
not a bad build. as the anon above said, ksons is suffering. your only problem now is nowhere to put your jump-soc. if you want to make him fast, give him a bike: it also give him +1 T
>>46770006
I remember reading 2nd edition fluff books as a kid- meltagun fire is invisible. There's just a hiss, a shimmer of heat, and the carnage of whatever it blows up.
>>46770834
not sure why you'd really want a jump pack, I guess you could attach to spawn or just chill in cultists and jump out when the opportunity arises, although bikes are five points more but a lot better, they make you toughness 5 and you can jink and such
also as mentioned your ksons are troops, but the reason for this is having a mark of tzeentch sorcerer makes them troops
>>46770822
More likely because D10's are large, and given the number of dice you have to roll at once in 40k, they're going to be awkward to transport and use en masse. I certainly wouldn't enjoy having to muck around with 24 of the damn things every time I rapid fired a unit of Kabalite Warriors out the back of their Raider.
The problem is GW not being bold enough with the WS chart. By setting the average stat at 3/4, anything above 6 might as well not exist. They could bump things up a bit so the average stat was more towards 4/5, giving them more access to the extreme highs and extreme lows of the scale.
Or, hell, make the target numbers to hit range from 6+ to 2+, like shooting, and spread them out more evenly. So if the WS of your target is equal or one higher, you need a 4+. Two or three higher, 5+. If it's four or more, you better start fishing for 6+'s.
>>46770822
D6 is fine if you just adjust the numbers a bit.
Having twice their weapon skill forces them to hit on 5s.
Having twice their weapon skill +1 lets you hit on 2s.
Of course, GW proudly REFUSES to play test of their games as to prevent leaks... which happen every single week anyway as the newest stuff is posted in this thread.
White Dwarf is basically just advertising these days, they're making people pay to see advertising.
Who was it that once said
>The first time I want our customers to know about our new product is when they walk in store and see it on the shelf.
>Watching eBay for OOP model I've been wanting in my army for years
>Auction with said model ends in 2 days
>5 bids at a little over its original price
Shits going to go down in the final hours.I'm going to recast the shit out of the thing if I get my hands on it.
>>46770841
Yes, we should be assuming that people are going to break a Codex as hard as they can. Because they will. If the rules allow it, someone will do it, and thus the onus lies on the developer to ensure the rules are as balanced as possible in the first place.
Of course part of that involves nerfing Tau and Eldar. But it also means writing a ruleset which is actually balanced, instead of rushing out the hatchet jobs GW has become known for and relying on the players to either houserule it or restrict themselves to compensate for the developers' mistakes.
>>46770908
>they're making people pay to see advertising.
GW has a pretty fat sack of balls to pull this bullshit, when I was a but a virgin babe on my first foray into this hobby a few years back in early 6th, I foolishly bought a White Dwarf expecting a bunch of cool articles and opinion pieces and tactical ideas/hobby stuff. Then I flipped through and realized what the fuck, I just bought a catalog.
>>46770956
It makes me wonder, "If I didn't browse /tg/ for all the latest leaks and news how would I know about GWs new products?"
Here's the thing, I wouldn't.
No wonder GW is going down the shitter when no one knows what they're selling. Word of mouth is shit for getting new customers in store, if my friends asked me how to get in to 40k I would point them to Ebay/a shop that sells 40k at a discount.
>>46770083
Hey man! Want to play a two to three hour tabletop game!?
We can drink a beer!
Just the two of us!
Can someone explain to me how this would be any fun for someone who is not a) underage or b) married with children????
>>46770006
Representations in other media haven't been consistent
>DoW1: Thin flamethrower stream
>Dow1 again: Blobs of hot flame
>Dow2: Thick, short ranged laser
>Space Marine: Laser shotgun
>>46771026
You can't really rely on word of mouth when you're business strategy is to fuck over the long term players.
>>46770956
Damn man.
Old WD had what you were looking for. I've long since stopped buying it, but long ago it had bat-reps, Eavy metal paint guides and really exotic conversions some neckbeard sent in.
Is a vindicare assassin actually viable to run? I'm planning on building an imperial guard army, and it seems like a decent way to get full map spot removal. Does anybody have experience using him?
>>46771081
They stopped all of that? That was like the only reason to pick it up.
>>46771085
not sure what you mean by full map spot removal, but a vindicare will not be able to snipe off everything important by the end of the game. he's good for taking out a few sarges, some special weapons, and a weak character/monster/tank
>>46771085
I've used Vindicare on multiple occasions and... He's lackluster. Even if he has ~75% chance to cause a wound to something he still wont achieve much during the game. ~140pts for 4,5 dead models (or wounds caused) isnt enough when you could instead buy a squad and wipe out whole enemy squads.
>>46770565
>nice ignore of anything to do with ATSKNF-lite and costs
One point and one WS for no Chapter Tactics and a degraded ATSKNF seems pretty balanced. Plus Tacticals, the nearest analogue, are overcosted anyways.
I've already addressed the 8 point melee weapons in this thread. Everyone would get them.
Flakk missiles should be free for everyone and not just Eldar.
I do take criticism. Your comments are just shit.
So do your opponents just not bother firing with their small arms when they play against Space Marines?
Flat cost per unit makes no sense. None of your criticisms of cost hold water. Some of them almost certainly do need a one or two point adjustment.
>>46771047
>Implying that it's any less fun than all the other inane shit people end up doing for fun
>>46771121
>>46771124
really? my understanding was that he ignored cover and had the 72" range, so you can stick him at the back of the map and plink away at tanks and warlords
>>46771138
The ATSKNF is barely degraded and makes up for what's lost with hatred: loyalist, and all of the chaos covenants blow chapter tactics out of the water even with the point cost.
Let's compare your new chaos marines with, for example, white scars tacticals. If we give the CSM devotion to excess, the closest to white scars chapter tactics, you're now paying 1 point per model for:
+1 WS
+1 I
re-roll charge distance
access to power weapons
and swapping the least useful part of ATSKNF for hatred: loyalists
but no, none of our criticisms hold any water
>>46770728
Hell yes. Im building thousand sons right now as well and even though they suck I still love them to death
>>46771144
Except it is less fun than a majority of other things you could be doing with your friend that would not require your friend to learn a bible sized set of rules
Again, how does this appeal to anyone that isn't underaged or married with children?
>>46770834
How about swapping one of the Havoc squads for a 3-man team of Terminators with Combi-Meltas, then increasing the Havoc squad's model count to 9?
>>46771306
what is it about the thousand sons that makes you love them?
Im always interested in players reasons for liking an army
>>46771288
>our
'Kay,
I don't really know how many times I have to point out that Tacticals are shit units. I could see bumping Excess up to 3PPM.
I'm definitely removing the Hatred: Imperials, or making it so that the Hatred is mutual.
>>46771412
Not him, but I chose CSM because I thought powerful sorcerers guarded by legions of ensorcelled ghost golems sounded pretty baller.
>>46771412
Not him, but I love their lore, their look, and Ahriman is one of my favorite characters. Really though, my confirmation for liking them was when I started watchingIf the Emperor had a Text-to-Speech Device.
I play IG though, and once I can improve my painting skills/save up more money, I'll try and start up a 1kSons army.
>>46771342
It is no less inane than anything else you do for fun.
Please, tell me about some other hobby and explain how it has some ineffable quality that makes it innately more fun than 40K.
The reason you think something is fun boils down to, "I like it".
>>46771412
Tzeench has always been my favorite chaos god, I like the idea of an army built around powerful sorcerers and ghost marines, I like the fluff of how the ended up falling to chaos, and I dig CSM in general.
>>46771288
>>46771417
Oh, and access to Grav Weapons is surely worth more than access to Power Weapons.
>>46771474
Okay, I box. It's more fun because it allows me to keep my body in shape, has set technqiues and the rules make sense and don't fucking constantly change
I can go full force or go light to practice
There are also girls that box
I can watch televised boxing
Boxing isn't people just standing and using tape measurers
>>46771104
it's literally just a bunch of pictures of models now with the caption COMING SOON
i.e. BUY THIS SHIT
I'm not exaggerating. there are like one or two "articles" per issue with a few paragraphs about how these models are so great and GW is so excited blah blah blah platitudes just fucking buy our stuff okay. how do you manage to fuck up so hard that you forgot what a magazine is
>>46771523
Only arguably what with your suggested point decrease on power weapons. Also, +2 A and +1 wound on the veteran sergeant increase? For the same price as what loyalists get?
>>46771547
It's only +1 Attack. Veteran Sereants in general should have two wounds a la Skitarii.
if the emperor ever came back do you think he would play along being a god so he can focus on the more important shit or set everyone straight and deal with the shit storm that will follow
>>46771566
+2, 2 attacks base and they get bolter + bolt pistol + CCW
>>46771412
Tzeentch is the best Chaos God; the 1KSons as tragic villains have one of the best backgrounds for a traitor legion; They're angry dust spirits sealed within power armor; Their warcry is an ominous "All is dust... All is dust...", and they have tons of Sorcerers which I like.
Ahriman himself actually has somewhat good intentions and is badass.
The only other Legion I like is the Alpha Legion.
>>46771585
I thought they got that as well. Hmmm.
>>46771538
>Brain damage is more fun than tabletop
I now see why you don't like the rules changing.
>>46771538
40k doesn't make you retarded. I consider that to be significantly more fun.
>>46771542
so they basically just made it replace the old model catalog? because that sounds exactly like it.
>>46771538
>lmao I'm cooler than you neeeeeeeeeeeeerds I bet u don't even have a gf or do cool sports like me
yeah you're pretty awesome, faggot. I wish I was on your level, being all cool and shitposting on a board about how you dislike a popular game. as everyone knows, it's impossible to have multiple hobbies and if you play 40k you must not do anything else.
>excommunication of actual loyal astartes
who is he talking about?
>>46771639
>>46771653
keep the samefagging on tumblr, child
>>46771669
Look, stop projecting you fucking retard. Never did I say that I was better than anyone, holy shit. Are you still in fucking primary school? All I was doing was challenging the retarded notion that inviting a friend to play a fucking tabletop game that they know nothing of, have no idea what the rules are (most people on this thread dedicated to the game don't even fully agree on rules), and requires about two hours to play was an instant growing of your local community. The only people that this might work on are underage kids who have limited options for wasting time or someone who is married with children and also has limited options due to having children and probably being tied to their homebase for long periods of time.The latter are the types of fucks who will even go play fucking boring ass golf for hours just tonget away from the family.
>>46771047
As opposed to doing the same thing without beer in a shop full of smelly neckbeards?
>>46771687
>Ouch, who keeps trying to put this hook in my cheek?
>>46771687
Because it's totally inconceivable that more than one person thinks you're a fucking moron.
>>46771687
>Ouch, who keeps trying to put this hook in my cheek?
>>46771683
That shit happens all the time.
See the 1,000 Sons.
>>46771755
>>46771687
No, anon, we are one.
>>46771683
>>46771683
anyone? or is this bullshit?
>>46771740
no, you came in the thread acting like a puerile nigger and posting garbage like LOL HOW DO YOU HAVE FUN DOING THIS, WHY AREN'T YOU DOING COOL THINGS I LIKE I DON'T UNDERSTAND
perhaps you'll understand when you leave Eternal Highalso PAY THE GOD DAMN DENBTS ALREADY YOU GREEK SCUM
How do you feel about a Tau player who is willing to drop a large area bombardment over his own troops?
>>46771812
it's pretty fluffy for commiesguaranteed_replies.txt
>>46771812
Wait, what?
>>46771812
Depends. It's certainly something the Ethereals would order if it was desperate enough but a Tau Commander would never order such a thing.
Does this semon demon have a name?
>>46771812
I'm sure they volunteered for the cause.
>>46771812
I think he's a cheater.
>>46771812
That's not how the greater good works, astartes
>>46771852
>sermon deacon
>>46771812
>>46771858
Not necessarily, I always take a HBC on my Riptide in Dawn Blade Contingent because that Riptide is only BS3...
Others might be willing to eat the scatter.
>>46771874
ON MY POSITION
>>46771874
That guy was/is a hero.
ON MY POSITION.
>>46771799
if I could slap you with my dick I would show you who's the boss
