The star wars galactic empire at the height of its power under palpatine.
The empire of worm King leto
The imperium of man at the height of its power under the emperor.
All three are locked in a cage galaxy and told the others were insulting humans.
Who wins in this arbitrary and forced conflict?
>>46759447
the 3 come out united and their combined strength superior to anything the individual empires could possibly achieve courtesy of the Worm
>>46759447
All three get their asses fucking destroyed by Chaos
>>46759447
Leto II controls a multi-galactic empire. Do I have to walk you through how laughably one-sided this all is?
>>46759599
I don't think its mentioned as being multi-galactic in any of the books
after all the whole point of Leto's planning was that humanity would get out of its comfort zone and spread so far throughout the universe no single force could ever affect all of them
Don't know about worm king leto or whatever that is but just based off of Imperium v. Galactic Empire, Imperium fucking sweeps
- Imperium has quadrillions of cannon fodder in the Imperial Guard which at worst are equal to the empires stormtroopers. Only piece of armor that the Empire has that poses a moderate threat to the IG is the AT-AT and even then an imperial Knight or Baneblade could take it down as it is large, slow moving and not maneuverable at all.
- Adeptus Astartes could sweep any land battle in favor of the Imperium with their superior training, superior armor and just sheer badassery. Not to mention their vehicles such as Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders.
- In space ship combat I'd say they are about equal (I will admit that my knowledge is a bit weaker in this area). If anything, this is one of the areas I'd say the empire would win because I have no knowledge of Imperium fighter spaceships if there are any.
However, when fighting capital ships, I'd say they're about even.
- In terms of motivation, Imperium sweeps once again. What is the empire fighting for? A paycheck? Not to get choked out by Vader if he happens to be in the area?
What are the IG and SM fighting for? THE GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND. ANY COWARDICE IS HERESY. These men will fight with every single fiber of their being that they have available.
In conclusion Imperium dominates in almost every category except space warfare and even then that might just be because of my lack of knowledge.
>>46759727
however space warfare is literally the only thing that matters in a conflict between the imperium and the empire. Palpatine will realize quickly any form of ground warfare is pointless and will just switch to bombing everything useful about a planet to the imperium from orbit and moving on
and in that aspect the galactic empire has one massive advantage: their method of FTL
its way faster and significantly more reliable allowing them to engage in hit and run tactics as well as significantly better response times and force concentration
>>46759727
>>46759447
>going to fight on/around a planet
>empire warps right on over
>imperium ships get lost for a few years in the warp
>demons everywhere
40k has hilariously overpowered ground troops, but unless all the fighting is around one particular planet they're fucked. That would be worse than saying USA vs China, but the only aircraft the US have at all are AC-130s and warthogs.
>>46759822
Incidentally, who wins when palpatine at the height of his legends power inevitably is confronted by the Emps?
>>46759868
Much as I dislike discussions like this... Palpatine can shoot lightning from his hands. The Emperor can destroy your soul with his brain.
>>46759689
I think God-Emperor of Dune specifies his empire is a galaxy cluster.
>>46759853
I'd say when it comes to the baseline grunt troops Leto has the most powerful ones by far given how he has actually managed to, through careful breeding, raise the entire human baseline drastically and the fact that duneverse lasguns are ungodly powerful compared to the 40k flashlights and star wars blasters
>>46759918
It's possible. Of the three empires, Leto's has the best FTL by far.
Honestly, I think Leto would use his prescience to arrange a meeting with the God Emperor of mankind and team up. They both want the same things: humanity to abandon gods and expand forth on a wave of science and exploration, and they both have similar methods (tyranny).
The only question would be if the Emps can recognize leto in his worm form as not a vile mutant, but the best hope for mankind.
If he does, then they fight crime.
>>46759965
Ring, but you have to remember that even an unarmored space marine is flashlight resistant or possibly immune.
>>46760002
>Ring
Right*
>>46760002
true but I was talking about the real baseline
and sure an unarmored space marine is virtually flashlight proof but I'd say if he tried it with a duneverse lasgun he'd be bisected given one of them was capable of in less than a second cut a solid supersteel bridge in half from over a mile distance
>>46759727
>Imperium has quadrillions of cannon fodder in the Imperial Guard which at worst are equal to the empires stormtroopers.
Laughable. I am actually laughing at you. Only fanwank gives the Imperium that many soldiers. Most numbers I see is merely countless trillions. SW galaxy is estimated to be in the hundreds of Quintillions of Imperial citizens. Plus all the resources of an entire galaxy against like, an eighth? Stormtroopers are elite, compared to the IG. There's a reason there's so many IG in any given battle: They need those numbers to make up for a shitty army.
>Only piece of armor that the Empire has that poses a moderate threat to the IG is the AT-AT and even then an imperial Knight or Baneblade could take it down as it is large, slow moving and not maneuverable at all.
Imperium crushes at ground warfare, no doubt. Vehicle vs Vehicle the Empire has reliability down pat, but the Imperium will shatter them with enough brute force. IOM will have to rely mostly on non-IG forces in such a campaign.
>- In space ship combat I'd say they are about equal (I will admit that my knowledge is a bit weaker in this area). If anything, this is one of the areas I'd say the empire would win because I have no knowledge of Imperium fighter spaceships if there are any.
Star Wars space ships tend to ruin the IOM's ships' shit pretty hard in most matchups I've seen. Empire just outnumbers them, with a vastly more reliable FTL/Comm system and about equal weaponry. Empire wins in space.
1/2
>>46759966
This guy is my nigga!
>>46760262
>What are the IG and SM fighting for? THE GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND. ANY COWARDICE IS HERESY. These men will fight with every single fiber of their being that they have available.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh wait, you're serious?
Imperial Guard units are pathetic. Morale is non-existent without a gun to the back of their heads. Imperial Stormtroopers (almost) never surrender, and are usually treated like Napoleon's Old Guard in terms of tenacity and valor. IG are barely better than conscripts, except for the ones who are conscripts.
So, in conclusion, Empire wrecks shit constantly in space, and then loses the planet they were fighting for as soon as a SM force makes landfall. Casualties are absurd on both sides. Palpatine directs his side like the greatest Farseer the IOM has ever faced, while the greatest heroes of the Imperium are dredged up for a bigger and nastier fight than the Apocalypse Wars and the Black Crusades combined.
At the end, I'm not sure either empire would survive. Or even be capable of fighting their other foes down the line.
And that’s not even considering throwing Leto II into the mix. Most likely ending of all three empires meeting up is a Pan-Universal Empire headed by the Three Emperors whose goals tend towards ruling everything and making Humanity-Fuck-Yeah the base assumption of all realities.
>>46760262
>>46760283
>stormtroopers are good
>only once depicted as good in canon (precise blaster shots) and they're generic cannon fodder and comic relief from then on
I think it's a little harsh to write off the entirety of the IG as little more than a t-shirted mob armed with laser pointers. There are just too many different worlds raising different regiments. Yes, Imperial Stormtroopers (and, by the way, how annoying is it to write about two sides that are both referred to as 'Imperial'?) would probably destroy the Valhallans or other zerg-rush, 'we have reserves' regiments, but there are also well-trained, well-armed elites like the Elysian Drop Troops, the Tanith First and Only, Mordian Iron Guard, etc.
>>46760262
Some estimates put the Empire at 1 million systems, so quintillions might be stretching it
Otherwise pretty on point.
>>46760283
Actually SW blasters are plasma weapons, and even TIEs have what's effectively twin-linked Autofire Lascannons.
While a marine is basically a Wookie in Darktrooper III armor, the vehicular and space support even a lowly stormtrooper will receive (as he dies) is just one of many examples of the Imperium of Man having utter shit tech beyond "our supersoldiers are supermutants too".
AT-STs for example might get punched the fuck out by a Dread, but they're mass-produced, can spew just as much laser from afar, and are actually a lot more maneuverable (this says more about marine walkers than it does about AT-STs mind).
The big problem though, is that you have no teleportariums, no more drop pods, no more bombardment (friendly anyways) and no more ammunition coming at you within minutes of landfall as a Space Marine, because your battle-barge either ran when it saw a couple of TIE/Ds (let alone an actual capital ship) and had learned its lesson already, or because your battle-barge is that flaming debris you see making the pretty meteor shower in the sky.
We need to remember. Emps is amazing, and one-for-one Space Marines are amazing commpared to people... but everything else about the Imperium of Man is drastically oversized, overcost and critically underpowered, especially for spacecraft. Their lances are (proportionately to the size, energy requirements, etc) crap, their hulls and armor are crap, their sensors are beyond crap, their FTL a losing proposition...
IoM vessels are exactly the kind of target that leads to "fighter vs fleet" stages in most side-scrolling SHMUPs
>>46760602
>AT-STs for example might get punched the fuck out by a Dread, but they're mass-produced, can spew just as much laser from afar, and are actually a lot more maneuverable (this says more about marine walkers than it does about AT-STs mind).
Uh, the guard DO have Sentinels though...
Not AS good as an AT-ST, but mass produced as much or greater.
>>46759917
>Palpatine can shoot lightning
You don't know the power of the force.
>>46761426
Neither did he, apparently, because he sure didn't appear to be using anything else when an asthmatic cripple who'd just been severely beaten by his estranged son managed to throw him down a lift shaft without too much difficulty.
Suddenly, cresting over the mountain tops in the distance, overlooking the battle raging below on the planet Hoth, Imperial Stormtrooper scouts see this. And it's coming closer.
Imperial scouts also report a phalanx of The Emprah's Baneblade armored division in the valley beyond where an Admech field regiment was installed by Lord General Ursarkar E. Creed.
Just as these messages are delivered, the skies overhead darken under the weight of the steel rain falling from the heavens above.
Your move, Palpatine.
>>46760283
>Imperial Guard units are pathetic. Morale is non-existent without a gun to the back of their heads. Imperial Stormtroopers (almost) never surrender, and are usually treated like Napoleon's Old Guard in terms of tenacity and valor. IG are barely better than conscripts, except for the ones who are conscripts.
Why do people get all their information about Warhammer 40k from fucking 1d4chan? The Guard has way fucking higher morale than the Stormtroopers ever will and vastly superior training. Your average Guardsmen is the best specimens a planet has to offer, being the peak of physical perfection of the human form. They also fight enemies far worse than anybody else in the fight, as the common enemy of the Guardsmen is the Ork. A 6'6 to 7' beast that weighs as much as two or three men and can cleave through tank armor with an axe due to mystical gestalt psychic energy. And that's just the basic boy, as Guardsmen will commonly be met and forced to take down (or die) Nobs, Killa-Kans, 'Ard Boyz, Lootahs, among many horrifying varieties of Orks that the guard does not break against (because there is no retreat, you have nothing to retreat to). Plus then you have Regiments like the Cadians, who are superior to all modern armed forces we have on earth. Utterly fearless and are literally reprimanded for missing a single shot.
>>46761601
Sure, but that's one theatre. Meanwhile, the Empire can use it's organisational and logistical superiority to win somewhere else. And that's assuming the Imperium can get space superiority to safely deploy those assets, which they probably can't.
>>46760602
One thing you're missing is engagement ranges for the ships, the Imperium's ship have an ungodly attack range, even without nova cannons, compared to the star wars universe. Source is page 6 of the BFG rulebook.
>>46760262
>Star Wars space ships tend to ruin the IOM's ships' shit pretty hard in most matchups I've seen. Empire just outnumbers them, with a vastly more reliable FTL/Comm system and about equal weaponry. Empire wins in space.
No they don't. Empire ships are a fucking joke compared to the Imperium, you could literally throw twenty ISD I's or II's against a single Cobra and they would lose. The Imperium of Man starships have firepower in excess of hundreds of gigatons- bombardments form their ships come in the teratons and small fleets of ships can unleash power equal to the Death Star (Nostramo). The only thing the Galactic Empire does better than the Imperium is FTL, but that is only after they've mapped space. When it comes to firepower they are horrifically outgunned and will have to pull 20:1 odds even against fucking Escorts from the Imperium of Man.
Oh and the Imperium laughably outnumbers the Galactic Empire. The Galactic Empire only has 25,000 destroyers and either one or two Executor Class Super Star Destroyers from the new canon. The Imperium has MILLIONS.
Unless the Empire can hyperspace jump to a completely undefended world lacking even a minor fleet garrison, they'll get destroyed in space combat every time. It doesn't help either that the Galactic Empire fights at ranges of tens of kilometers, ships will often exchange fire over a distance of less than a thousand kilometers. Imperium ships horrifically outrange Empire ships as they engage at distances of tens to hundreds of thousands of kilometers so far away you can't even see the enemy. Ironically space warfare is one thing 40k does realistically. Combat takes place beyond visual range with everything done by sensors and servitors.
knowing the future is a more potent weapons than any ship or gun.
>>46761680
Except they don't have superior logistics. The Galactic Empire has less ships, less troops, less people, less weapons, weaker weapons, and weaker shields than the Imperium of Man. The only thing the Galactic Empire possesses as an advantage is the Hyperdrive. Which isn't actually an advantage, because hyperspace EXISTS in warhammer. It's been taken over by daemons and even the Necrons avoid it. Any Galactic Empire fleet that enters hyperspace will be destroyed by daemonic assault. If they return even, they'll return with most of their crew devoured or possibly have the ship itself possessed by a Daemon.
Star Wars simply doesn't work in 40k. Different scales.
>>46761812
You're looking at it wrong. Its more like each's hyperspace is the same in their universe. So 40k still gets shitty hyperspace and SW still gets good hyperspace.
>>46761863
Except that Star Wars would be traveling in the hyperspace dimension found local in 40k, as hyperspace is just a dimensional reflection of the universe. Meaning that still any Empire ships going into hyperspace will be devoured. They'd have to barter for Gellar Fields from the Admech and even that may still be suicide.
>>46761863
Technically, warp travel can, if utilised properly and you have a hell of a navigator on your ship, bring you to your destination before you even left. So more like it ranges from crap to awesome.
>>46761790
I don't believe in hokey religions kiddo.
>Death star blows up terra
>Imperium looses all forms of FTL travel
>Empire destroys isolated pockets
Pretty easy senpai.
>>46761916
But you're assuming that they are all in the 40k universe when the OP said they were all taken to a separate universe/galaxy.
It'd be simpler to really do a comparison if all factions kept whatever explanations their lore and fluff dictates respective to themselves
>>46762044
Not in the 40k universe, separate universe
What about the First Foundation at the height of its power under Harla Branno against the Inperium?
>>46760602
>Actually SW blasters are plasma weapons
>thinking that the simple fact of being technically a plasma weapon says anything about the energy levels of said plasma
Handheld blasters of pistol and rifle sizes are shown to scorch walls up a little on impact, and that's it. Their energy output is barely above lasgun level.
>>46759447
>Who wins in this arbitrary and forced conflict?
The Culture, who instigated the conflict in the first place.
Gonna try to brake this down using info from only canon material ie no EU for SW and only codex/rulebook fluff materials for 40k.
Strengths of Galactic Empire:
Reliable FTL
Reliable FTL communication
More uniform fighting force (everyone is fighting on the same page of the tactics manual)
Square: Small arms are comparable in capability to IG. Yes blasters are plasma based but no one was ever flash turned to carbon in a pile of molten metal from a single E-11 shot. IoM plasma pistols can punch through light tank armor and vaporize a human being with a single shot. Blasters are more on par with las weapons in power.
Flak and storm trooper armor are similar in reliability with flak having an edge with shrapnel protection and ST armor protecting from glancing energy weapon strikes.
Cons:
FTL only functions within well mapped areas. Operating beyond GE space completely nullifies the reliability advantage and acts as a severe draw back.
Vast majority of weapons are thermal-based which limits defenses that can be reliably overcome.
Void weapons have extremely short engagement ranges compared to IoM and are severely underpowered.
Void ships are structurally weaker and more vulnerable than IoM.
1/2
>>46762189
The first foundation couldn't even survive the existence of ONE telepathic mutant, so...
>>46762064
Then you accept that the EOM is capable of, essentially, time travel at the risk of occasionally becoming lost in the warp. Empire loses when The Emprah's fleets arrive at Palpatine's shipyards before his fleet has been built. Take, for example, Warlord Grizgutz who emerged from the warp into his past and saw his younger self. Being the greedy-ass savage, he decided that he would kill himself and take all that flashy dakka and gubbins that his younger self had for himself (from himself). Meanwhile, his boyz looked on in confusion as to what the fuck just happened - Their boss just killed their boss, so now who's in charge?
tl;dr
If you believe that the warp travel of the EOM leaves it strictly disadvantaged, you're not taking into account its -considerable- advantages over TGE's vanilla FTL drives.
>>46759966
Leto can't see the future like daddy could you moron!
>>46762625
he could though. IIRC, it's explicitly stated that both he and paul could see the golden path, but only leto had the sandworm sized cahones to take it.
>>46762044
Idiot. You think the EOM isn't capable of and, indeed, hasn't obliterated entire planets?
>Bitches don't know about my exterminatus
>Bitches don't know about Blackstone Fortresses.
>>46762615
I'm not saying its strictly disadvantaged, Id just say that its definitely less cut and dry then TGE's "And then they all showed up no prob"
>>46762596
Strengths of IoM:
Scale - vastly larger fleets, armor, and soldiers compared to GE. IoM frigates are of similar size to larger ships-of-the-line in the GE.
Significant firepower advantage across the board - frigate weapon batteries are nearly the size of an ISD bridge tower section and each shell registers in the dozens of megatones. Mixed main armaments (KE/laser/HE/nuclear/plasma/DEW/etc.)
Better shielding - void shields block all impacts above a certain velocity/energy level. GE shields must be toggled for either energy weapons (deflector shields) or kinetic (particle shields) and significantly drain reactor power if both are activated.
Ground warfare is OP as hell.
Cons:
Less reliable/dangerous FTL travel though can be used in unmapped areas with some reliabilty.
Inefficient combat doctrines - somewhat offset by sheer scale of armies though unsustainable without economy of scale.
Inconsistent grade of weapons and equipment.
>>46762044
The Death Star is unlikely to have the firepower to penetrate Terra's void shields. Plus it jumping into the Sol System would result in it getting deleted by the absurd amount of firepower kept there after the Horus Heresy and Beast invasion.
>>46761601
CREEEEEEEEED!!!
>>46759447
The Rebel Alliance
>>46763028
Fuckin right.
Terra already got their shit tucked in the horus heresy, they're not just going to leave it undefended.
The IOM isn't killing 1000 psykers a day just for some Bernie sanders looking asshole in a robe to come and shoot at the planet
>>46763133
Except the rebels didn't really win anymore then the fucking terrorists did in 9/11. Sure they blew up some important shit and killed some military leaders, but will a system of government crumble simply because its top 2 leaders and a couple million (out of quintillion) troops were killed?
FUCK NO.
Rebels are retarded, go back to shooting womp rats asshole
>>46763047
that warhound titan appearing behind that shrub?
CREEEEEEEEEED!!!
>>46763144
In this scenario though, the HH hasn't happened, as this is the imperium at the height of its power.
>>46763172
But the rebels did restore balance to the force, which means the empire will fall eventually without the dark side sustaining it.
>>46762625
No, Leto saw forward AND backward into infinity with perfect clarity. He was Pre-Born from the Spice so he had ancestral memory along with his father's sight. That's why he was the God-Emperor, not because he was the Worm. The Worm was merely Leto extending his life long enough until his time.
I wonder though, how would his prescience hold up against Chaos? Would the influence of Chaos act like a Guild Navigator?
>>46763223
Its literally just a system of government, the dark side is within its leaders and they were both just killed. Sure the next guys in line will still be assholes but at least they won't be evil assholes.
>the dark side sustaining it
Yea because that's what holds up a government not that it logistically works and can operate independently or autonomously but that it needs mean midichlorians to convince it to work.
>>46763373
It worked for Revan.
>>46763406
A. Technically that's not even canon but for the sake of argument and the fact that I loved the old EU.
B. That goes under the same category of "in real life this wouldn't work but because we need a good story it does here"
>>46759447
Dune fleets get wiped out pretty quickly, their shields are incapable of protecting them from directed energy weapons due to the fatal reaction between Holtzman shields and energy beams.
The Empire's FTL travel method is far more rapid and reliable, their weaponry can probably match the Imperium's in terms of hitting power, however the Imperium fights from much longer ranges using a combination of directed energy weapons and solid projectiles.
I'd give the slight edge to the Empire in space due to their vastly superior mobility.
The IM takes the ground by far though, they've got larger and more powerful ground weapons in far greater variety, although the average Stormtrooper has superior armor, the E-11 isn't as survivable as a flashlight.
I think that the GE would take this war by a slight margin because of something completely beside their space capabilities. That thing would be their willingness to innovate and improve their technology, while the Imperium does do this, it has to do so slowly because any obvious and radical change is literally punishable by death. The Empire on the other hand would be more than willing to mine their most intelligent and ambitious minds to produce new weapons and better starships tailored to combat the Imperium.
>>46763172
Except the difference between 9/11 and The Empire is that the states weren't waiting with bated breath to throw off the heavy shackles of oppression when the blow was struck.
>>46763938
>although the average Stormtrooper has superior armor, the E-11 isn't as survivable as a flashlight.
laughingewoks.jpeg
>>46763938
Remember that little detail where Holtzman shield backlash obliterates the shield carrier AND the source of the EM particle beam?
>>46763192
>implying that pre-heresy Terra is undefended and that The Emprah is just going to allow some wizened old psyker git in robes, who by the way doesn't share the benefit of being one of his beloved sons and therefore none of the tolerance that Big E showed at the outset of the Horus Heresy, to simply park his Death Star on Terra's doorstep and take pot shots with his laser.
The whole suggestion that this is the easiest way to defeat the IOM is sheer Wookie-fantasy-fanwank. And you all fucking know it!
>>46763192
>In this scenario though, the HH hasn't happened, as this is the imperium at the height of its power.
Oh lawrd.
Great Crusade Era Imperium murders the shit out of everybody with areotech and spamming 20 kilometer long flagships that make the SSD look like a firecracker. And mass produced space marines. Fuck mass produced everything. The Admech alone could handle this war.
>>46764082
Don't forget the volkite fun those Space Marines are packing.
>>46764059
Even if we assume that the detonation will work on a plasma or turbolaser bolt in the same way that it works on a continuous laser beam, the thermonuclear explosion produced by a shield detonation is unlikely to cause crippling damage to either a GE or Imperium ship. Both 40k and Star Wars universe ships cope with vastly greater stresses whenever exchanging fire with other vessels from their respective universes.
>>46763047
>>46763189
As much as I was making the argument that IGE's ground game is pants-on-fire-garbage compared to the EOM's, I'm glad that some people this thread also caught the humor at least! lol XD
>>46761426
Palp would spend about 10 minutes "meditating" state quite bluntly "Fuck this, that's suicide! How do we get out of here?"
Emps will probably know about his existence. Maybe not his face, but he knows he exists. Eldar gave the strongest human psyker in the galaxy a wide berth for a reason.
SW has more reliable FTL, that's it. Their ships can't hang ton for ton. They're outranged, out gunned (mind you when a IOM ship does score a hit with a macrocannon, or a lance, or torpedo the pure kinetic energy delivered from them is enough to destroy Star Destroyers if it doesn't have it's shields up.) Arguably the IOM can outmaneuver them as well when in normal space.
And space is the only place they have an edge.
>>46765060
>SW has more reliable FTL, that's it.
You say this as though it isn't literally the only salient detail of this hypothetical war.
It's like horse vs foot.
It's like aircraft vs battleships.
In fact, it's actually a lot more like supersonic aircraft vs a medieval castle.
It only ends one way, ever, period.
The fusion warheads on melta-torpedoes are around 5 gigatons. Exterminatus using standard weapons takes numerous ships and hours to days, depending on what's firing.
Turbolaser *recoil* is in the low giga range as well, and that's the kinetic component of a bottled up energy blast. These are installed en-masse on capital ships, and said ships shields are capable of tanking sustained bombardments from numerous such weapons at a time.
On the other hand, there's shit like cyclonic and viral torpedoes, which are IoM superweapons, and capable of depopulating a planet in minutes. They're also significantly more common than Empire superweapons such as the Death Star, even though the latter's ability to pop a world like a balloon speaks of firepower on the order of several zeroes more than any method used by IoM. It's more appropriate to compare them to the smaller superlasers mounted to certain SSDs.
Nova Cannons are within this 'range' as well; but unlike Virals or Cyclonics, are doing so by their own power, rather than specialized effects on specific targets. They are what you would compare to the "space bombs" and capital heavy rockets the SW ships can fire out.
Overall, this means we are looking at two VERY different tech trees, making the Empire's edge more difficult to notice on occasion. For one thing, the IoM has far more AoE and other indiscriminate methods of destruction. However, while ten slave crews are moving the next macrocannon shell in position, that single turbolaser cannon has shot another fifteen times, applying a similar amount of damage, but neither across an area, nor anywhere as slowly.
FTL-wise people in this thread have completely forgotten that even 40k has non-warp methods of travel... except it's not the humans or even the Tau using it. All of these are literally based on what the Eldar and Orks creators used to use: The Necrons do it already.
>>46765267
There's also the question of sortie rates.
It's entirely possible that IOM fleets may be much, much more effective in combat.
And yet it doesn't really matter, because they won't fight more than one battle over the course of a FTL war.
Imperial fleets can sortie dozens, hundreds, thousands of times more frequently and so have tremendously greater combat effectiveness.
>>46762323
You never seen higher power blasters, they can be charged to destroy boulders in one shot
>>46762603
Old Lady Branno has that telepathic shield, remember? We're a long way from the days of the Mule by that point.
On the scale of starfighters and land vehicles, it's almost entirely one-sided. A Leman Russ will be terminally penetrated by Earth common-era Cold War weapons. Not new shit. Shit we've already phased out because it's useless for everyone except insurgents in somethingstan. Its speed is WWII-era in the best of times, and it's HUGE. It's a massive fucking target, tall to boot. Its battle-cannon IS marginally superior in actual power (similar ability to launch missiles btw) as an Abrams, but its range and ability to target things are abysmal as is common in all things Imperial. Anything equivalent to a 20mm cannon will likely bounce off the heavy front armor, mind, but a guy in a Warthog would feel like fucking Rudel
Meanwhile, a horde of TIE/LNs, yes, TIE/LNs, would likely take significant if not lethal damage from lascannons and battlecannons (the latter ain't gonna hit shit tho), but are known (unlike many SW fighters) to be capable of hovering in atmospheric combat. In other words, you'd have angry lascannon-loaded attack choppers coming in squadrons. Mass produced squadrons.
Again though, the most interesting part is that for all the ease Empire forces have at putting holes in Imperium vehicles big or small, they're equally terrible at killing more than one or two people at a time. Short of planetkilling, their weapons are notoriously focused, with even large warheads being at best similar to a grenade in kill radius (but there's going to be fuck-all left of any people in that radius). The losses in troopers for The Empire would be comparatively so staggering it's not worth ever fielding soldiers against Imperium positions.
This means that if they're not being retarded (and let's be honest, SW admirals and moffs are not known for their tactical genius) they'll forego soldiers entirely, and fight like they were Tau: Get the fuck out when you see those two million men coming your way, then turbolaser the area until it's glass.
Of course that's only planetside.
>>46765478
To be fair, SW vehicle armor also seems to be consistently shittier than modern AFVs. I doubt you could wreck even a ww2 tank by swinging a pair of logs hung on ropes at them.
>>46759447
Leto because he can predict literally anything and everything with 100 percent accuracy.
>>46765478
Except we also have feats of Leman Russes tanking gigajoules of energy. The Forge World statistics are demonstrably false by the entire Black Library, as are all the stats.
>>46761764
Star wars space weaponry is very short ranged.
IoM ships normaly fight at the range of half the sun system.
>>46765361
Are these handheld weapons, and if so what's your source?
>>46765138
It's a lot more like a P51 vs a modern armoured division. The p51 is faster than the armoured division's tanks and APCs, but patriot missiles DGAF
>>46765713
Except when ramming or boarding comes into play, which seems to happen a lot......
>>46766591
>It's a lot more like a P51 vs a modern armoured division
That is almost exactly the opposite of being true.
Your analogy is shit in every possible way.
>>46765353
Where do you come up with this belief that their reactors don't also consume fuel and require refueling? Does Palpatine shit energon cubes now?
>>46766622
That's when the ships boost at each other at relativistic speeds. And even then most boarding is done via torpedo shot at hypersonic speeds.
>>46765361
Non-canon fanwank detected
>>46765478
>the ease Empire forces have at putting holes in Imperium vehicles big or small
Da fuq? This Wookie clearly doesn't know what he's talking about here.
Do you even Warhammer?
Necron and even Eldar tech easily, handily outclasses everybody, including the IGE, and they don't oneshot Leemans reliably. Hell, they don't even oneshot Metal Boxes.
>>46766851
Moving goalposts here. You can't use the fluff when it suits and change to tabletop fairness rules when it doesn't.
Imperial armor is utter SHIT. If the necrons keep missing them, that says something about the necrons, not the russ.
>>46766988
>imperial armor is shit
Yet it tanks shots from meltaguns which are almost triple digit megajoule weapons.
>>46766851
An E-Web(15) could probably cause the Imperium's ground forces some trouble, it's powerful enough to penetrate armored ground vehicles and smaller starship hulls, as well as having a basically infinite supply of power and can be modified with it's own shield generator which was capable of protecting the user from small arms fire.
If we stick strictly to the timeline the E-Web(15) version wouldn't make it into this scenario since it was introduced shortly after Palpatine died, however both the original E-Web and the F-Web would make it.
>>46766988
The leman russ is NOT easily penetrated by WW2 armour - this argument has been had a thousand times and is demonstratably false - a direct hit from particle weaponary capable of vaporising ferroconcrete - and not our modern stuff but the super hard imperial version - does not destroy or even majorly damage a leman russ.
The only real advantage SW have is massively improved logistics, they have fewer and less effective troops and void ships, and ther superweapons are comparatively few and far between.
>>46767231
So a multilaser.
Much wow
Very laser
>>46767220
Meltas are a very... odd case.
We're told that the thinnest armor on any Leman Russ is 45mm of their material, WHATEVER that is. At its thickest, 200mm. That AV 11 Rear can be damaged by a bolter round; a low velocity 27mm grenade. This weapon can blow an arm or torso apart, but isn't always fatal, and won't brutalize one's squadmates to a significant degree. This is in the lower ballpark of our own man-portable 40mm grenade launchers, though our ability to field rapid-fire ones like bolters is limited to heavy weapon teams, unlike the handheld things.
Yet that same bolter round can damage 45mm of Leman Russ armor.
Triple digit megajoule weapons are NOT all that surprising: modern tank weapons are already right in there. A 155mm shell with minimum charge will be between 3-4 million joules on impact, but is not actually designed as a KE penetrator (in other words that's just the impact of a high explosive bomb you managed to land squarely on the tank).
An M829 APFSDS delivers a very concentrated (a little pointy bit) 25.9 megajoules on its own already.
>>46767437
I just attribute that to poor metallurgy on the imperium's part and energy dissipation for the meltas.
Because stats are retarded for armor in 40k.
>>46767437
Actually I was wrong. Meltaguns frequently put out -gigajoules- of energy. Quotes like this are common with melta weapons when they show up as they will vaporize whatever they're pointed at. Including entire bunkers made out of a mixture of iron and concrete and reduce it to a bubbling liquid/gas.
>“His voice was drowned out by the abrupt hiss of the melta as Jurgen fired into the wall, instantly flashing a dozen cubic meters of ice into steam…” – Caves of Ice, Page 81
>>46765595
he can't directly see the actions of other prescient beings, events in no-chambers or those he personally engineered to be immune to any form of prescience
though he is capable of highly accurately estimating the actions taken by those who would be immune to direct observation through analysis of what happens to their surroundings
>>46762696
Fortesses are in hands (no pun intended) of Abaddon desu
>>46767532
And then they have a chance of utterly failing against something a slightly-AP grenade launcher can get into.
Keep in mind though, that a single kiloton is 4.184 terajoules. Damn good power, that melta, but also not impossible to match these weapons that can reliably reduce an Imperium MBT to slag.
Turbolasers are in the 30tJ range given what they do to asteroids of several meters, while personal blasters (given the damage they cause to trees) are in the single digit megajoule range. Blaster cannons are somewhere in the middle, meaning most likely around the power of meltas, though with significantly longer range.
Now if you REALLY wanna get ridiculous, these earth forces have but a handful of proper fleets. Massively outnumbered, but oh the firepower.
>>46766988
Who said anything about TT rules? If the Eldar were capable of one-shotting LRT on their front or even side armor, the IOM would have fallen millennia ago, despite their numbers. The fact of the matter is that Imperial armor is tough enough to perform in the theaters of war where they operate.
The Empire's armor? Gets taken out by this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbrpqWkNqyo
'Nuff fucking said.
>>46767893
Because WW2 era weapons (the original argument - WW2 era weapons easily take out LRT) pack this much power and litter the battlefield. Right?
>>46759447
They decide that it's for the best of humanity to set aside their grudge and use their combined power to fix everything. We all win.
>>46767736
They weren't during the time period being discussed. Sure, the Imperium hadn't unlocked the full potential of their secrets yet, and it took the C'Tan Deciever before his race got turned into pokemon for Spehs Phehraohs to tell Abaddon how to use them... But still, the potential was there at the time. And as long as we're doing this crossover, it should be taken into account that their secret -might- be discovered.
>>46768018
Fuck off, Greyskin!
>>46760602
A log trap completely crush an AT-ST like an aluminum soda can.
>>46768006
Jar Jar never touched any of the Empires tech. AATs were redundant by the time the Empire was in power
>>46765138
Its like a reasonably athletic man on a bike vs the whole UFC.
The reasonably athletic man might show up faster to a fight, but once he tries to engage he will be a fine red mist.
Consider a small battlegroup of 3 ISD's emerging from hyperspace to find a gothic class cruiser hanging in orbit. Hyperspace ain't like dusting crops kid. By the time they put in all those calculations that make it so safe and reliable, Lances will have reduced them to tumbling flotsam.
>>pic related
>>My wildly inconsistent power level thing is waaaay better than your wildly inconsistent power level thing
>>46761660
Let's also mention that during a space battle boarding parties are a possibility via deep strike terminators
>>46761790
That worked out splendidly for Palpatine in the end though, didn't it?
>>46770977
>Its like a reasonably athletic man on a bike vs the whole UFC.
How is this a remotely meaningful analogy for a war of FTL-capable fleets vs non-FTL capable fleets?
We'll be extremely generous and say that it takes the EOM ships five thousand years to attack one target.
It takes an Imperial fleet a week or less to achieve the same thing.
This means that for every combat mission flown by an EOM ship, an IGE ship has time to fly around 26,000 combat missions.
Every individual ship in the EOM will have to be capable of engaging literally thousands of Star Destroyers simultaneously, otherwise Muh Epmrah is going to lose this war thousands of years before any orders he has disseminated even reach his ships.
