So what's the deal with these guys? Are they actually the only good faction or it's just a facade?
>>46709415
40k does not have any good faction. The grim derp marks everything. The entire eldar fall was written because eldar seemed to be the good faction at the beginning and they couldn't stand that.
The best Tau could be is the least bad.
>>46709415
They're an example of the many small up and coming alien empires that exist in the galaxy, slowly expanding as the Imperium reaches the precipice of collapse.
>>46709415
>good
Hah. There is no 'good' in 40kek. That's the whole point.
>>46709415
They're a totalitarian society which hasn't encountered enough enemies yet to really feel a strain on their resources and capabilities. They're optimists in the face of light resistance.
>>46709415
The Tau aren't very big on social liberty, hugely totalitarian and authoritarian. Your job is chosen for you, where you live is chosen for you, the groups of people you're placed near enough to form relationships with is chosen for you, and a number of other major life choices are, as it turns out, made for you. You get more personal time and a better quality of home/healthcare/etc than life in a hive world, so it's better than what the bottom majority of the Imperium get, but you have way less liberty within that and unless you were born an ethereal caste there's nothing remotely resembling the better lives available to people in the Imperium who are lucky and talented enough to get and keep them.
For some that makes them the lesser evil, since the flavor of evil is more to their liking. Couple that with Tau propaganda and you get what looks like a "good" faction compared to more in your face kinds of evil.
>>46709415
>Good
lol
>vat grown clone slaves
>genocide entire planets if they refuse to bend the knee
>sterilise population of planets that do bend the knee
>Imperialistic evil warmongers
>Deviating from the caste system is instant death
>perform any action outside of your caste system is instant death
Tau are the most sinister faction in 40k
>>46709805
>sterilise population of planets that do bend the knee
>perform any action outside of your caste system is instant death
Find me a source that isn't non-canon and isn't a claim made in-character by Imperials promoting anti-secession propaganda.
>>46709690
>For some that makes them the lesser evil, since the flavor of evil is more to their liking. Couple that with Tau propaganda and you get what looks like a "good" faction compared to more in your face kinds of evil.
I think it's mostly that they're wearing yellow cardboard or robes rather than metal skulls.
>>46709844
I mean, most eldar don't wear skulls either and they're pretty dickish.
>>46709859
I doubt you'll find many people who rank them among the evilest, though.
>>46709907
DEldar doe.
>>46709805
>>vat grown clone slaves
The Tau are not vat grown clones.
They are test tube babies. Tau are allowed to breed naturally after serving sometime.
>>46709837
>perform any action outside of your caste system is instant death
I guess you haven't heard of this.
It's an awful awful book
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/blades-of-damocles-ebook.html
>>46709415
>So what's the deal with these guys? Are they actually the only good faction or it's just a facade?
Facade is probably not the right word, but calling the Tau good is a serious stretch. Thay are a totalitarian society, divided into castes. The wishes of the individual are almost completely subservient to the "greater good of all", A.K.A. the greater good. Then there are the hints of the ruling caste using pheromone-based mind control to keep every other Tau in line, and focused on the greater good. How much they truly believe in their philosophy, rather then just keeping hold of power for power's sake, is unknown. So to summarise, they are a combination of the Soviet Union and A Brave New World, pretty fitting to be the villains of every other story.
However, this is 40k, and while their means are totalitarian and repressive to us, they are incredibly soft compared to the other factions in the game. Their political system is hardly worse then the fuedal theocracy of the Imperium for instance, and their record of atrocities pales in comparison to that of any individual inquisitor or chaos warlord.
Still, one reason presented for this disparity is their small scale, and their lack of contact with some of the worse elements of the setting. The Tau have onlly recently broken through on the galactic stage, and never faced anything worse then Orks. they have little connection to the warp, and therefor do not have psykers or deamons popping up on their planets. not have they ever faced the tyranids or necrons, since any serious force of them would eat the whole tau "empire" as a light snack. No one knows what the Tau will do when they grow desparate. What they would do, too stave off extinction, like the Imperium does on a daily basis.
>>46710046
Of course it is, it's BL.
>>46709837
There is no mention of sterilization of proper canon. In fact, fluff goes against the notion of the Tau damaging the much needed manpower sources provided by the alien population in their empire.
The other thing comes from the new "Blade of Damocles" novel by Phil Kelly (a GW studio designer and writer). Any Tau who develops skills of a caste outside his own is labeled Vash'ya (or whatever I don't recall the exact spelling of the world). He or she are then taken by the authorities. They either disappear forever or return with their minds reduced so much that the drones would seem vastly sophisticated to them.
>>46710092
>BL
It wasn't written by a BL author. It was written by Phil Kelly who is from GW's design studio. He is the guy who wrote the fluff and the rules of the Farsight Farsight supplement and also he was involved in the writing of Kauyon and Mont'ka.
>>46709415
They're nothing. You need a microscope to see their territory on a map of the galaxy. Any other faction could wipe them out in a week if it was worth the effort.
The only reason they got figures at all is to draw in gamers who dislike the concept of the Warp and the "Gothic cathedral on treads covered in skulls" aesthetic of 40K.
It would've been better to make a separate game with a more down-to-earth setting where the Tau are the ultimate bad guys.
Hmm let's release a bunch of new miniatures, then write a bunch of fluff that makes them entirely unlikable. "In 40k you can cheer on your favorite team, all who are worse than Hitler!"
GW needs to die, and die soon.
>>46710189
Actually, the lore says that the Tau recently have grown to be one of the major powers/players of the galaxy.
They have grown beyond the Imperium's power to destroy them.
This is what the fluff says but feel to go on your bias.
>>46710244
I thought the Tau didn't have FTL travel? How can you be a big player without it?
>>46710302
GW can not into distance or numbers. They skim the warp that gives them safer but slower speeds. Generally speaking they can still get where they need to go because barely defined plot.
>>46709985
>Tau are allowed to breed naturally after serving sometime.
Source?
The only source I can find they is they are clones, spliced together and grown in vats.
>>46710244
They have what, 200-300 worlds under their control? That shouldn't even be a blip on the Imperiums radar, and a minor speed bump for factions like Tyranids or a large Ork Waaagh
>>46710302
Third Sphere ships engines were upgraded to reach higher speeds. They might have achieved FTL
Regardless they are a major power.
>Warboss Grukk Face-rippa leads a rampage against the Tau Empire! The Tau have seen plenty of conflict during their brief ascension to the status of major player in the far future, and quite a lot of that conflict has been with Orks.
-WD 108
>>46710363
"Fire Warrior'
"Shadowsun"
"Farsight"
These novels.
And how many times do I have to tell you? They are not clones. They are test tube babies.
>>46710374
And yet they have been more than blip. Smashing aside several large Waaagh! and many splinter fleets.
Because they have something the rest of the galaxy doesn't....
>The deadly reputation of the Tau Empire is enshrined in its signature weapon of war – the battlesuit. Other aliens, Mankind and Chaos Daemons alike have all learnt to fear these weaponised suits of armour, and none is more emblematic of this dynamic young race than the XV8 Crisis Battlesuit, each one piloted by a great hero of the Tau Empire and capable of slaughtering entire troops of infantry or reducing battle tanks to molten slag. To see them on the field of battle is to face certain doom.
-eWD 91
Anyway, I think empire is more than 100 worlds. They might have broken 200.
>>46710123
Thats fucking retarded. The caste system of the Tau isn't some kind of top-down enforced social strata thing. The different Tau castes have major biological differences and are clearly better or worse at different things, THAT'S why they get allocated to the tasks that are associated with their Caste.
An Air caste trying to act like a firewarrior not only wouldn't fit into the Firewarrior's armor because they are so tall, but they would probably get severely injured during basic training because they are more frail. An Earth caste, even one raised to be a diplomat, cannot hope to be as good as a Water Caste diplomat because the water caste has face musculature that are capable of a much wider variety of facial expressions, making them able to mimic the patterns and body language of other races and better putting them at ease. Etc etc.
This can be safely thrown on the pile along with with the Sensei and Multilaser Space Marines as 'things only a BL library writer thought were a good idea'.
Besides, didn't there used to specifically be mention in the past of Tau deep space explorer crews being comprised heavily of Tau who had skill crossover between Castes? Because the ships were small, didn't have a huge crew complement, and were at the very edges of Tau territory so they needed everyone onboard to either be exceptional at their jobs or to be able to do the work of two Tau.
>>46710535
This. Tau battlesuit tech, and the fact that it is rapidly advancing, is what is keeping the Tau relevant.
A space marine vs a battlesuit ends in a dead space marine unless that marine is lucky enough to be carrying some very heavy firepower, and gets the first shot in. Tau usually suck at melee, but in the fluff a battlesuit can just step on a marine and squash him dead.
And thats just battlesuits. The Imperium is still trying to figure out what the hell they are supposed to do about Riptides, because a single Riptide on a rampage can totally reverse the course of a battle, and the Riptide sits in a weird spot in powerlevels where it is too much for the conventional tanks and troops to handle, but still way too small to be worth throwing something rare like a Titan at it.
>>46710535
Have orks ever looted battle suits?
>>46710651
>'things only a BL library writer thought were a good idea'.
Getting really sick of you guys throwing this at BL. It was written by a GW STUDIO WRITER. This man writes codex lore. He is the guy who invented 100% of the Farsight and Tau modern lore.
This how it goes. If a Water Caste was discovered to have a skill in creating structural art, she will be arrested. If a Earth Caste is well spoken and diplomatic at level near the Water Caste, she will be arrested. If a Fire Warrior shows has the ability to understand the workings of his own weapons and knows how to fix them, he will be arrested. In short, if any caste member develops the skills of another caste, he will be arrested and then killed or suffer a fate worse than death.
It's very bad fluff but it is what it is.
>>46710753
Probably, in the War of the Dakka
>>46709415
Depends on the edition and the author.
For most of 40k written history, they are indeed the only truly noble and good faction.
>>46710377
>using WD blurb as your canon argument
Haha wow
You'll realize why you're such a dumb faggot once you stumble on one of the many retarded WD captions that are just editors opinions or advertising language.
WD thought you could give vanilla tacticals a heavy flamer
>>46709415
H U M AN
S T E R I L I S A T I O N
>>46710871
>WD thought you could give vanilla tacticals a heavy flamer
But they wouldn't even know which end to point at the enemy?!
>>46710871
But anon it's not from the model release section. It's from the fluff section detailing the Tau and Ork history with each other.
>>46709415
Necron's are the only good guys.
>>46710770
Modern tau lore is shit. What a weird coincidence!
Kauyon and montka specifically ruled out large mechs like riptides in favor of anti Titan flyers and yet here we are, and GW still has the gall to name the recent books montka and kauyon
>>46710886
N O N C A N O N
O
N
C
A
N
O
N
>>46710770
You mean Convenient Deus Ex Machina Farsight and Mary Shadowsun Melee Duelist Sue?
Modern Tau fluff is garbage.
>>46709415
They used to be something of "not bad at least", but then they got a serious case of the grimdurrk.
>>46710886
Must have learned it from the imperium. Heroes of Armaggedion anyone? All surviving IG, and all witnesses sterilized and put in death camps. Saved by Space Wolves and transported to another planet as colonists. Inquisition exterminatuses planet.
>>46710770
> If a fire warrior maintains his weapon, he is a threat to the Tau Empire
I get that they wanted to make the Tau into Nazis so that Farsight could be the noble rebel against the evul Ethereals, but come the fuck on.
>>46709415
They're the least bad, though the more they expand into the galaxy the darker they are having to become to combat such a nasty place
>knock knock
We represent The Church of Warcaster Christ of Latter-day Steampunk.
Have you heard the good word of Warmahordes Mk. III?
>>46710967
This. The Tau started off as being genuinely good with only one or two hints of the Ethereals being secretive and maybe there was more to the 'translator helmets' that they gave the Vespid than they initially let on.
But they were, far and away, the least evil guys in the setting.
Imperialfags fucking hated this, because the line the Imperium lives on is 'we are only super evil racist space assholes who massacre our own people at the drop of a hat because ITS THE ONLY WAY TO SURVIVE, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOOD ANYMORE. DARKNESS. DEAD PARENTS. SKULLS.'
The Tau, be right of not being raging assholes, made humanity look bad by being proof of concept that the IoM maybe was evil because they were fucking evil, instead of being evil out of actual necessity.
So they rectified it, and every lore update we get about the Tau ever since has made them more and more dystopian. They have to do it gradually, because they have to make the Tau darker to appease Imperialfag butthurt, but they can't do it too fast or they risk alienating the Tau players who actually liked them as optimistic and naive good guys of the setting.
>>46710981
Funny you should say that.
When Farsight was shotdown by marines , he fell into a body of water. He was forced to repair his damage suit from inside to avoid drowning.
When the Ethereals discovered this, he was put under trial and found guilty. Aun'va told Farsight that he has to go to his old master Puretide and use a device that will copy his brainbut it will kill him. If he does this, the Ethereals will dismiss the charges, if he doesn't then he will be put to death as his punishment for being "between the spheres".
>>46710374
They beat back a small tyranid splinter fleet by "out adapting them"
Beat back Orks cause "superior tactics"
If a REAL hive fleet like leviathan swarmed into tau space, it would get eaten easy, like wise if ghazzy stormed in with his huge ass waaaagh
>>46710955
>>46710926
You wot mate.
Come ere and say that to my face, boyo.
>>46711096
>them as optimistic and naive good guys of the setting.
That mentality goes straight against everything 40k stands for, and GW is in the right for toning that idiocy down.
>>46711114
>small tyranid splinter fleet
It was a small Hive Fleet, not a splinter.
Also Ghaz brought his Waaaagh! to the Tau Empire but did not stay for long.
>>46711074
You get me a provocative pic of the Archdomina of the Skorne in a string bikini, and you have a deal.
>>46711199
>Archdomina of the Skorne
>>46711150
> I wasn't bitter and upset once, and that made me so mad that I had to stop
>>46710731
>In the fluff a battlesuit can just step on a marine and squash in dead.
These being the same marines that can juggle terminators?
After all of this I find it hard to care about Tau fluff anymore. I might stop caring soon and stick with the Necrons who are the only guys that didn't have their fluff raped.
>>46710731
A Tactical Marine will almost certainly get the first shot in, considering the fact that he's a drastically superior soldier in most ways. That being said, a Boltgun can only do so much in one burst, though cocentrated fire will still leave the Crisis non-functional and a Marine has a good chance of evading fire.
Consider this, however, the Tau deploy millions of Crisis Battlesuits, yet a single company of Marines is considered a terrifying and dangerous force, even when deployed against the Tau Empire. A Crisis Battlesuit, bar a few functions, is mostly superior to Power Armour, yes, but the soldier inside the Power Armour is nothing short of absolutely horrifying.
>>46711262
Close enough. I guess I will download the rules.
>>46711430
So ancient evil to space mummies wasn't enough to be called rape? Was it just fluff unhappy sex?
>>46710092
>Of course it is, it's BL.
If you're gonna use that meme, at least use it when it's appropriate, and not when game designers of GW write it.
ITT: Tau players get mad because ther faction isn't 'the good guys'
No faction in 40k should be 'the good guys', not even the space clowns, the actual objective good guys are that good because they choose to prioritize fighting Chaos and work with the Dark Eldar.
>>46711430
>Necrons who are the only guys that didn't have their fluff raped.
...you haven't been playing very long have you?
>>46711713
The regular eldar work with their Deldar cousins as well.
>>46711572
It's not a meme, it's a valid observation. That BL is shit, that is. As for the intricacies of different kinds of 40K authors, I have to admit to being somewhat clueless. I simply assumed all novels OK'd by GW counted as BL.
>>46711141
Unfair, nobody's gonna want to look at that guys face long enough to say it.
>>46709415
They're not even canon so who gives a fuck.
>>46711430
>Necrons who are the only guys that didn't have their fluff raped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJiUfnIzbVM
>>46710046
Why does the banderole say VIDYA?
>>46711769
he understands where /tg/ truly comes from
>>46711769
It's a Blood Ravens librarian, and they are referencing /v/ memes for DoW.
>>46710374
yet they always completely shit on the imperials every time they go up against them
>>46712179
I would like to note that in the majority of instances the Imperium's tactical acumen takes a notable drop, performing a bunch of really obvious mistakes in addition to completely neglecting superior alternatives that we've seen them do before. Not denying how canon the books are, but the lore that Tau shit all over the Imperials is pretty bad.
>>46711168
Cruddance wrote that bid fluff, he's so biased against bids that he is to be discounted as 'baiased against them' unless its ig
>>46709415
It depends on your point of view.
>>46712226
>>46712179
Every single one of those Tau victories is "because we said so". None of them make any logical sense. Same thing with that hive fleet victory.
>>46712567
every single victory anywhere is "because the author said so".
>>46709415
They really need to have their shit pushed in.
I hate the damn mary sues.
>>46710817
>Depends on the edition
Basically just 3rd.
>>46711096
Vespids and their communion helms were introduced in 4th edition, which was when the grimdark really kicked in (leading up to the present day, with no sign of stopping, like you said).
For reference, consider quotes like the following from the 4E rulebook:
>Even in the last few centuries several major alien races have revealed themselves and now wage war upon the Imperium, threatening to corrupt or destroy it once and for all. The most dynamic and vital of these are the Tau, whose empire on the Eastern Fringe of the Imperium is expanding at an alarming rate. Those worlds that refuse to swear allegiance to the Tau are obliterated by the alien race’s incredible firepower.
4E codex:
>The Greater Good requires that all join together and acknowledge the guidance of the Ethereal caste, and this includes any and all races with whom the Tau come into contact. Perhaps unsurprisingly, few races are willing to surrender unreservedly, and so the Fire caste has gone to war on numerous occasions. Those worlds that will not willingly join the empire are dragged to the negotiating table under threat of annihilation. Those that remain openly defiant face obliteration under the orbital guns of the Air caste fleet.
or the 4E codex designer's notes:
>The Tau have only recently left the world of their birth, but have rapidly expanded their influence to cover a sizeable area of space on the eastern rim. This dense stellar region is home to a bewildering variety of worlds, many of which the Tau found to be populated by sentient races. Those that would hear the word of the Ethereals – the Tau ruling elite – were welcomed into the burgeoning empire. Those that would not were destroyed.
then try to find similar such statements in their 3rd edition equivalents (well, except the rulebook, since at the beginning of 3rd, Tau didn't exist yet).
>>46711769
>>46711794
>>46712088
The first Blood Raven to combine the roles of Chapter Master and Chief Librarian was one Azariah Vidya, who is basically the most important and influential figure in the Chapter'sknownhistory. Going by Chaos Rising, all subsequent ChapterChief LibrarianMasters seem to have taken his first name to honour him, hence Azariah Moriah and Azariah Kyras.
>>46710651
>Sensei as 'things only a BL library writer thought were a good idea'.
Sensei was in rulebook fluff bruh
>>46710731
>Riptide sits in a weird spot in powerlevels where it is too much for the conventional tanks and troops to handle, but still way too small to be worth throwing something rare like a Titan at it.
Sounds like an imperial knight might be a good match for it cost-wise.
>>46711713
>>46711150
>good
Its not about the Tau being the "good guys" its about them being a normal, functional civilization thrown into the horror show that is Warhammer 40,000. I kind of like the original lore to them better, not because they're some kind of race of paladins, because they weren't, but because they were under the false impression they were in a normal sci-fi universe. They were an outsiders view of the craziness of the Warhammer universe, which is hilarious.
>"Lets befriend the Orks"
>"We killed Slaanesh."
Fucking hilarious. Then everything explodes into demons or less hygienic soccer fans and BOOM.
Shenanigans ensue.
>>46712657
Except for the non-Tau ones, they aren't complete asspulls and the reader doesn't need to suspend all belief on why they won.
Farsight literally drops from the sky and saves Shadowsun and the Tau.
That is the, no exaggeration, exact thing that happens when they win. It just FALLS FROM THE SKY.
>>46715436
>Except for the non-Tau ones, they aren't complete asspulls and the reader doesn't need to suspend all belief on why they won.
Warzone Damnos. Nuff said.
>Farsight literally drops from the sky and saves Shadowsun and the Tau.
Calevra foresaw the events of Mont'ka and told Farsight all about them 180 years before they happened. Source is "Fire and Ice". The short story was written and released as part of the Shas'O story collection before the release of Mont'ka by months.
Kauyon foreshadows Farsight's involvement and tells you that he preparing to take his part in the events that will shape the future of the Tau forever.
Only a complete retard (you) would have not seen Farsight coming to the rescue a mile away. Calevera's prophecy does describes the events of Mont'ka in detail and tells you that the Tau will win the war.
>>46715967
>he foresaw the events hundreds of years ago!
>not an asspull
>immortal, sword wielding melee commander
>dueling fusion blade marine commander slaying Tau commander
>Stormsurge and Riptide that go against the whole ideology of the Tau and rivals Imperium titans
>not asspulls
Listen to yourself.
>>46709415
They were the good guys.
But then some butthurt grimdark people showedup and rubbed their butthurt all over GW's nice chesterfield sofas. So they made them more grim, and slightly more dark.
>>46716210
No, asspulls.
It did not come out of nowhere. For months anyone with two brain cell or more who read the lore knew that Farsight was going get involved in Mont'ka. Everyone knew he was preparing for this war for 180 years.
>immortal, sword wielding melee commander
Something we knew about Farsight since 3th ED is an asspull? You moron.
>dueling fusion blade marine commander slaying Tau commander
The fuck you are about?
>>Stormsurge and Riptide that go against the whole ideology of the Tau and rivals Imperium titans
It does not go against Tau ideology. It goes against some Tau fanboys and salty Imperialfags headcanon.
Learn what an asspull means. Read Warzone Damnos.
>>46716360
>old asspulls aren't asspulls
Nigga what
A shortlived race being immortal is an asspull
Fighting off literally infinite waves of humans with your tiny force is an asspull
A non melee race beating melee champions in melee is asspulling
Defeating the hive fleet specializing in adaptation by consuming each other specifically to promote adaptation by OUT ADAPTING THEM is asspulling
>tfw discussing lore with /tg/
Screw this thread. I am off to get some shuteye.
>>46716360
>It does not go against Tau ideology. It goes against some Tau fanboys and salty Imperialfags headcanon.
>FW Tau flyers never existed
Go away Taufaggot newfags. You probably defend Newcrons too.
And you wonder why everyone on /tg/ hates Taufags.
>>46710061
Tau have dealt with Necrons (Necrons even helped them fight Nids once). Maybe they didn't "face them" army-to-army per se but they've had nasty run-ins with them.
Also, Nids are currently chomping on the Enclaves.
>>46716464
>You probably defend Newcrons too.
Sometimes he does, sometimes the opposite.
>>46716449
>A shortlived race being immortal is an asspull
Only one is immortal and it was explained years ago how he attained his immorality.
>Fighting off literally infinite waves of humans with your tiny force is an asspull
The humans were not infinite and the Tau have a significant amount of forces on the planet that was bolstered by Faright's forces. Also they had move field advantage.
>A non melee race beating melee champions in melee is asspulling
Tau are not inherently bad at melee (See Aun'shi). With enough training they can be decent. Farsight has been training for 200 years and his abilities are augmented by a suit.
>Defeating the hive fleet specializing in adaptation by consuming each other specifically to promote adaptation by OUT ADAPTING THEM is asspulling
The defeated the Hive Fleet with the help of the Imperials. They did not do it alone.
At this point I can say that you don;t know what an asspull means. Anyways, I will continue with my plan of getting shuteye before the trolls and stupidity get me.
>>46716449
Less of a direct asspull and more the breaking of consistency, but I see what you mean.
I think the main problem with Tau is that half the time they're too rational:
>I'm going to use somewhat competent tactics based off real-world manoeuvres, in a universe where the genius war-race possesses the tactical prowess of a teenager who's gone through bootcamp
And the other half of the time their enemies are completely incompetent, often uncharacteristically so, or they pull off wins with little to no explanation as to how they flanked/advanced/inserttacticalmanouvre before the lore stroking it as absolute genius:
>You didn't see my one hundred Battlesuits in an engagement that's actively being watched by Void Augurs
>My active combat network, despite being Vox isn't revealing our position as any other broadcast would
>The Raven Guard, nemesis of the Night Lords will totally fall for what is essentially bait, despite formerly and calmly dealing with Astartes who have been practising Kauyon-esque tactica for longer than the Tau have existed
>>46716360
>It does not go against Tau ideology
Tau ideology has, from day one, been centered around the hunter cadre. Which is based in the manta missile destroyer and its escort of barracudas.
You spent to much time guzzling AoS spunk, TIDF. Read the very first tau codex. There is a full page dedicated to it.
>>46716464
>>46716676
I'll stay a few minutes just for you.
Your precious FW says that Mantas are inefficient and unsuited for hunting titans which forced the Tau to look for other methods of titan killing. So now what? Even the newer anti-titan Tigerhark is said to be not enough against the myriad of Imperial titans which forced the Tau to devdelop the nigger suits. Don't you DARE lecture me on Tau lore when you are a total failure at it.
>>46716513
>Maybe they didn't "face them" army-to-army per se
There are people on /tg/ who would lie like this.
>>46716857
If they properly faced Necrons army-to-army, the Tau would definitely know about it. Necrontyr ships could individually shatter half a dozen Tau equivalents, thus gaining total void superiority with relative ease. Next comes air superiority and finally, without support, even the mightiest Battlesuits and commanders will be at the whims of the orbital bombardments.
>>46716924
>Necrontyr ships
>expecting this obvious newfag Tau moron to know anything about BFG
We do not speak of the horrors of the Necron fleet.
>>46716924
Most Necron fights happen on ground level against awakened Necrons or with Necrons that are guarding something.
Rarely do we see the Necron fleet in action in the fluff. Which raises another asspull from Damnos, where the heck were the Damnos Royal Fleets?
>>46716986
>BFG Necrons lore/rules
>canon in the newcron era
I got news for you.
>>46716994
>where the heck was the Imperial anything that could easily wipe the Tau off the face of the galaxy
Nowhere, because all Tau fluff is just asspulling bullshit plot armor Tauwank.
If you want Tau victories done right wait till FW makes more IA with Tau in it.
>>46716857
>Don't you DARE lecture me on Tau lore when you are a total failure at it.
Fuck off until you read your codex.
>Your precious FW says
Not FW. The original fucking book.
Read, faggot.
>>46716994
Still, a fully awakened Necron force is not exactly something Tau have the ability to deal with. Ready access to weaponry that can shred even their Titan-class Battlesuits due to the lack of Voidshields as well as a general mobility and technological support advantage, assuming they've brought their toys with them.
I have a strong feeling this was merely a scout force or a few wandering Necrons without any purpose, a truly awakened tomb world is terrifying to behold due to the sheer technological advantage the silent legions have over everyone else, from time-alteration to safe, unstoppable teleportation to lifewiping WMDs.
>>46717058
>Fuck off until you read your codex.
I did and I can say bigger suits do not go against Tau mobile doctrines. Their development was a result of the Mantas and flyers failure to counter the titans. You can cram those big suits inside the Mantas and deploy them anywhere to counter titans instead of risking the whole manta against a single titan and its anti-air.
Learn to war.
>>46717135
>I did and I can say
yeah okay sun tzu
>>46717135
>Risking aircraft to deal with large, slow targets
>Send down another large, slow target to duke it out instead
I'm not disagreeing with you, it's canon and all, but this isn't tactical competence in the slightest.
>>46717065
Tomb worlds have been defeated by a few companies of marines before, anon.
Necrons are great but they are not that great.
>>46717135
>titan
>anti-air
Lol.
>>46717209
Everything has been defeated by a few companies of Marines before, it's something that happens. However, from an entirely objective standpoint, if we take the capabilities of their equipment, technology and general troops, Necrontyr should have no trouble engaging with anyone else.
>>46717188
>>Risking aircraft to deal with large, slow targets
The manta is a transport and support vessel. It's the core of the Tau mobile warfare. It's a large target that won't return unscathed if it faced a titan (unless you are as skilled as admiral Leng). If the manta is taken out of the fight, the Tau cadre would be screwed.
>but this isn't tactical competence in the slightest.
It is when it works. We are going by 40K logic.
>>46717243
>Necrontyr should have no trouble engaging with anyone else
I disagree (picture related). The Eldar seem to be up to the task.
>>46717305
>The manta is a transport and support vessel
Then why do you keep talking about it when we were clearly talking about the flying anti-titan flyers, which you seem to not even be aware of. E.g. Tau Tiger Shark.
Tau don't build titans. They build bigger railguns and put them on flyers.
>>46717305
Don't pretend the introduction of large models to the Tau was ever anything but a business decision, friend.
In the older Codexes it even said the Tau deliberately weren't pursuing developing Titan style weapon platforms becuase it was faster more useful and cheaper to just stick it on an airframe or build a hundred Hammerheads instead.
Then every other faction's large kits sold well and GW got dollar signs in it's eyes.
>>46717342
You
see
>>46716857
Already mentioned the Tigershark. The Tau concluded that wasn't that effective. Which is why they created the Stormsurge.
Why do you wan the Tau to continue on a path that leads nowhere?
>>46717305
>It is when it works. We are going by 40K logic.
Oh yes, and I couldn't agree more, I'm just making the statement that the writers decide what works, they kinda have to considering everyone in the 'verse is incompetent compared to actual military leaders in terms of strategies. I can't blame them, though, they're writers, not war leaders or tacticians, sometimes you just have to raise an eyebrow at how much they insist their interpretation just works.
>>46717329
The Eldar have had a lot of time to practice and can likely do better than anyone else, but when the Overlord and his Crypteks start pulling out the more advanced toys (good luck having your Psykers and a good deal of your technology work under a Null-field, oh, and have fun with the lifewipe area denial) nothing short of luck can really balance it out. We read little paragraphs about Necrontyr annihilating basically every faction now and again, with entire dead systems gone before an Astropathic/Xenos equivalent message could even escape and the like. Of course there's going to be the occasional victory, but in general Necrontyr with their support seems like the worst thing a military commander can deal with in the 41st millennium.
>>46717395
>Don't pretend the introduction of large models to the Tau was ever anything but a business decision, friend.
I am not pretending it is anything. I am just telling you guys the fluff. Imo, it does make sense.
>In the older Codexes it even said the Tau deliberately weren't pursuing developing Titan style weapon platforms becuase it was faster more useful and cheaper to just stick it on an airframe or build a hundred Hammerheads instead.
Cite pages because I have never encountered any such fluff in the codexes.
Better hurry, I am getting sleepy over here.
>>46716986
>>expecting this obvious newfag Tau moron to know anything about BFG
>this obvious newfag Tau moron
Carnac is quite familiar with more or less all aspects of Necron lore, particularly those pertaining to power levels, and is always keen to remind people that despite the loss of their FTL they still dominate in space, and in all other fields besides.
...Except when he doesn't. He seems to be in a purely pro-Tau mood right now, for this thread anyway.
>>46717415
That's just author fiat. It could have easily been effective and progressed into superior aerial technology.
Don't justify GW's shitty writing and asspulls then claim it's not shit writing and asspulling. The Riptide and Stormsurge were written into the game ONLY to cash in on the popularity and sales. Why do you think FW even discontinued the Tau flyers due to lack of sales yet the only 40k models it has churned out besides 30k and marines are Riptides?
>>46717441
>in general Necrontyr with their support seems like the worst thing a military commander can deal with in the 41st millennium.
Enh, not really. All the major factions are manageable awful. It's the one-off shit that REALLY ruins your day. Enslavers, the Bloodtide, Abominable Intelligences, anything the vaults on Mars vomit forth... Uniqueness is a good measure of just how hard it will push your shit in within the 40k universe.
>>46717683
Let me rephrase, the worst consistent thing a military commander can deal with. The fact that they canonically understand and utilize physics itself better than you is enough to send anyone not utilizing the Warp into a deep, deep hole of disadvantages, even then they possess the most effective counter-Warp technology in the galaxy.
>>46717441
>in general Necrontyr with their support seems like the worst thing a military commander can deal with in the 41st millennium.
>What are chaos daemons
>What are Tyranids
Your wanking of your favorite faction knows no ends or limits Carnac.
>>46717808
It's not even wank, really, it;s cold plain fact stemmed from the technology the Necrons bring to the table. Try to fight them in the Void? Fuck you your ships are now scrap. What are you going to do without orbital support, which directly sustains your air superiority in most engagements? Unless you directly outnumber the Necrons massively, or you have plot on your side, it's simple logic to assume that they will hammer on your support, hard. This is before turning their now supported and hyper-advanced army on your somewhat crippled ground troops.
Seriously, there's little way around this beyond plotpower.
>>46717605
It's not asspully. It was a progression. It's something like GW giving the Imperium a warmchine that suppose to have always been there in the setting.
The Tau tried mantas against titans it wasn't effective so they developed the tigershark anti-titan. (FW Taros v2). 7th ED/Kauyon revealed the tigersharks are not as effective against titanss as hoped so the Stormsurges and that FW suit were made. Who knows what the Tau will develop next?
Just because the fluff progressed in a way you don't like, doesn't mean it's bad. The sales alone shows that most of the Tau fanbase enjoy this new direction. But hipsters gonna hipster I suppose.
>>46717808
Stop mistaking others for Carnac.
Chaos daemons? Maybe.
Tyranids? Tigurius said that the ancient alien mind that is directing the new foe, that the Ultramarines in 999 41K are facing, is beyond anything that they faced before.
You heard it here folks. Imotekh the STORMLORD is beyond the Hivemind.
>>46717891
It was an arbitrary progression which completely overrode all the previous fluff in favor of sales.
>>46717891
Don't claim fluff is good when literally every non-Tau player hates it and Tau and Eldar are ruining the game. Most of the Riptide and Stormsurge sales are from bandwagoners and new Tau players, not the old guard. This is extremely obvious and evident to anyone who isn't a blind Taufag or a newfag like yourself. Retards gonna retard, I guess.
>>46717891
It's not something like*
>>46717891
Why didn't they progress into flyers that worked?
Imagine if battlesuits stopped working and they just ditched them.
>>46716459
wrong pic faggot
