Renegade Knights for Renegade Dreams edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>>46696680
Greetings fellow CSM players, are you looking forward to adding multiple $170 Imperial Knight kits to our armies. Thank you GW, absolutely BASED!
reposting
anyone know what thunder hammer #1's letter or number is on the sprue? looking around on bitz sites and ebay for it
>>46696680
First for Chaos Knights being better than Renegade Knights
But, the possibility of 2 thermal cannons on a knight has me intrigued.
>>46696784
Reposting rules
>>46696784
Do the kits come with 2 of each gun?
>>46696784
>>46696800
>>46696803
No, but its easy to find them as people tend to sell the ones they don't want.
>>46696800
I could kitbash a knight with a gorkanaut and make a knight with two avenger Gatling cannons for my Orks.
Good idea? y/n
>>46696803
It comes with two knights, you could make one knight with either
2 Thermal Cannons
2 Battle cannons
2 Chainswords (If I buy this kit Im making one of this, a normal chainsword+relic chainsword)
Im not sure if both knights come with a fist.
>>46696866
Sounds awesome. Probably not bad rules-wise either
>>46696784
Will Chaos Knights have their point cost reduced as well?
The cheapest chaos knight was 425 iirc, so it'd be comparable to a renegade knight with a melta instead of a stubber, a carapace gun (30-40), and at least one weapon replaced with a cannon (45-60). So a melta, icarus, and gauntlet with an avenger gatling cannon and flamer is a point for point comparison.
>>46696875
They don't have 2 fists. Also, I don't think you can replace the fiat with the Relic chainsword, which means you could only get 1 by RAW, but I don't see anyone having a problem with converting it with 2 swords and just counting one as a fist.
>>46696819
>USR gives enemy the same benefit it gives you
Gee, Chaos, I sure hope you brought more knights.
>>46696800
>may replace heavy stubber with meltagun
Does this mean I can have a knight with 2 battle cannons, 3 meltaguns and a carapace weapon?
>>46696800
>no marks
FUCKING WHY EVEN BOTHER
>>46696966
No, you can't swap the battle cannons stubbers for meltas.
>>46696982
Because it's LITERALLY BETTER ANYWAY
>>46696899
>Also, I don't think you can replace the fiat with the Relic chainsword
I meant for the loyalist IK
>Lord Baron: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, Your Warlord has the Vehicle (Super-heavy Walker, Character) unit type, and can choose to select one item from the Heirlooms of the Knightly Houses list at the points cost shown.
So if your baron already has a chainsword he can have another by getting the relic, or take the relic fist to have two of them if he had one before.
>>46696800
>>46696819
I like how there is a "Renegade" Knight and a "Chaos" Knight.
Gives you the option for a Renegade that hasn't fully embraced Chaos yet.
>>46696982
Is that really that big of a deal?
>>46696961
>>46696982
>Chaos gets a version of Knights that's more customizable than normal ones
>People still complain despite also having Forgeworld Daemon Knights
>>46697031
I hope it means they can ally with more than just CSM. I bet ork players will cream their jeans to get some knights on their side.
>>46697031
>I like how there is a "Renegade" Knight and a "Chaos" Knight.
can the chaos one take marks
>Is that really that big of a deal?
YES. it takes it from 'here your copy pasted imperial knight, whoop de doo' to 'heres a fluffy centerpeice for your army'
not that i care, the GW knights are stumpy little manlet knights, and i play 'iron hands' now anyway. :^)
>>46697058
If you look at the bottom of the second page, you can barely see something that looks like 'allies in the same way as CSM'
So yes, AoC with Orks.
>>46697054
>Chaos gets a version of Knights that's more customizable than normal ones
Apart from double guns, there's not really a weapon combination that loyalists don't have.
>People still complain despite also having Forgeworld Daemon Knights
And how many FW knights do loyalists get, hmm?
>>46697076
Forgeworld Daemon knights have been around for months now.
>>46697076
>copy-pasted
>more options
>not even technically a Chaos Knight anyway
Yeah, what a shame that you can't paint it Red and call it a Khorne Knight
>>46697086
>Apart from having more options, they don't have more options
>"I want a Knight with god-marks!"
>Forgeworld has Daemon Knights
>"But Forgeworld also makes other things I don't get!"
Holy fuck. We finally get something nice and you're still complaining.
>>46697058
Indeed.
>>46697076
> can the chaos one take marks
Daemon Marks, yes they can.
It counts the knight as a "Daemon of" whatever God it takes the mark for.
Gets interesting when considering the Grimoire of names or Cursed Earth.
Do Super-Heavy Transport still count as stationary when embarked models fire out of fire points? It doesn't specify even in the Super-Heavy Transport section (only mentions any number of units can embark at the same time and what damage they take when it explodes). I'm suspecting that it uses the regular transport rules regarding fire points.
If they do count as stationary, however, how does 20 jokaero lascannons firing out of a stormlord sound?
>>46697121
yeah, because painting it red will give it rage right?
ill pass on some shitty battlecannon knight who cant even get rage...
if i wanted to drop $150 bucks on something that isnt a 2nd spartan, id just get this nigger right here.
>>46697182
The Super Heavy only counts as stationary when it makes a shooting attack, not when the embarked unit makes a shooting attack,
>>46697161
>Daemon Marks, yes they can.
>It counts the knight as a "Daemon of" whatever God it takes the mark for.
>Gets interesting when considering the Grimoire of names or Cursed Earth.
cool. so the renegade knight is just the ork dakka knight
Horay now i can play Knights with my Daemons an Renegade & Heretics armies
>>46697184
>My Khorne list can only be fluffy if everything has as much Rage as me
The fact that you're asking for Marks specifically is also telling, as they literally couldn't do that.
>>46696736
The game box gives you 2 knights and a terrain piece for only 190
>>46697244
what the fuck is the point of furious charge on a knight? huh smart guy
>>46697210
Cheers. A little disappointing, but at least the stormlord already prefers sitting still for that delicious AP3, Heavy 30 mega-bolter.
Curious, but what could the Grey Knights anti-Daemon powers do to a Forge World Chaos Knight on the table given that it can technically count as a Daemon?
>Went against 1500pts of Space Marines today
>His Command squad and two HQs got Invisibility for their librarian
>I say "I thought invisibility was the best defensive power in the game"
>Yeah but Orks suck at shooting anyway
>Proceeds to stomp me terribly
Honestly I think I am done with Orks. They might be fun to model but if these shitters are going to keep smacking me around for fun I am switching to a Xenos they will fear.
>>46697291
Which is why the Daemon Knights also get extra god-spexific rules in addition to the Daemon of rules.
What's the point of a Mark of Nurgle on a Renegade Knight, 'smart guy'?
>>46696800
>no dual-gun knights for us loyalists, but we get relics and formations instead
While I would have loved a knight with twin gatling guns wasting the enemy, I think I am okay with this trade-off overall.
>>46696819
Preferred Enemy is nice and fluffy, but not exactly huge, since templates and the D only gets half the benefit. On a dual-gatling/stormspear/melta knight however it might add quite a lot.
Overall this is pretty nice. I am glad Chaos got something nice at least, even if the errant and paladin from FW are obviously superior to these thanks to marks.
>>46696800
Aaaaaand I just impulse bought a second Avenger Gatling Cannon off ebay on the spot.
Fuck yes, gonna build a Renegade Knight with the legs replaced with a headless Maulerfiend built with all six legs, two AGCs, a missile pod and green stuffed on spikes and Khorne marks.
>>46697310
work normally. They do against soul grinders and other demon vehicles.
Why wouldn't they?
>>46697331
>Which is why the Daemon Knights also get extra god-spexific rules in addition to the Daemon of rules.
no shit retard, thats why i said give it rage.
>>46697324
Nice blog, when will WAACos realize they only create more WAACos while simultaneously ruining this game.
>>46697356
>These god specific Knights aren't god-specifix enough for me
>I need these other Knights to be given Marks of chaos, despite the fact that one of them wouldnt function on a Knight.
They're RENEGADE knights, not Chaos knights. If you want Chaos knights, take Chaos knights.
>>46697395
>They're RENEGADE knights, not Chaos knights. If you want Chaos knights, take Chaos knights.
which is the first thing i asked ITT. spit the dick out before talking to me next time.
>>46697310
It works against units with the daemon rule so it would only work on Chaos Knights that also have the daemon rule
>>46696819
>Allies as if Chaos Marines
Fun fact: Chaos Marines are allies of convenience with Orks.
So you can take a two Gatling Cannon knight converted up to look looted, and play it with your Ork army.
>>46697332
>FW are obviously superior to these thanks to marks.
In certain aspects.
The shooting options for the FW Chaos Knights are kind of limited as I recall.
>>46697415
Really? I thought the first thing you asked was 'FUCKING WHY EVEN BOTHER'
Maybe you should take a break from the computer anon. You seem a bit upset.
>>46697430
Chaos Knights are either Paladin or Errant. No top gun.
So yeah, if you want a Dakka knight, go renegade. If you want a Melee knight, Khorne Chaos Knight.
>>46697430
The FW Chaos Knight is just the old IK codex with the option to take daemon marks and a dirge caster so are only the errant and paladin
>>46697368
>WAACo
I like it, in a corny, white guy, Joker from Batman kind of way. Personally I'm going to start using FAAC. Anything is better than the boring old "WAACfag" at this point.
>>46697453
that was rhetorical. also i said spit it out, stop talking with your mouth full you fat piece of shit.
>>46697430
>>46697455
>>46697457
Forgeworld Chaos Knights also get +1 to their Chainsword D rolls.
Renegade Knights have some good options, and don't need a LoW slot, so they'll find some use.
>>46697463
>I like it, in a corny, white guy, Joker from Batman kind of way.
Thats what I was going for. It is the term my shop uses. FAAC wouldn't work if too many MTG kids are present.
>>46696800
>>46696819
So any thoughts on how the Renegade Knight could stack up against the Wraithknight, Imperial Knights or Storm Surge as far as shooting goes?
>>46697298
I'd like to see what that could do against a Ghost Keel Wing.
>>46697472
>I was on pretending to be upset!
Geez anon, were all friends here. Maybe you should calm down and stop projecting :^)
Can't wait to build a looted knight for me orks
>tfw just want to line up a fuckton of heavy bolter devastators and gun down an endless horde of orks
that requires finding an ork player
>>46697158
>complaining
Think you mean pointing out facts. I don't even play CSM, but even I know loyalists got a ton of knight variants from FW and that only variants you can make with these rules that loyalist don't get are the weapon ones.
>>46697506
Finally a use for the Nauts.
I guarantee the two ork players I know will be using them as Knights very soon.
They were just talking about it with the new Chaos Knight.
>>46697500
Well, its going to be better than an Imperial Knight, thanks to double of the same gun.
I think it might be on-par with a Stormsurge, though I'm not as familiar with the guns.
Wraithknight still wins, becuase 100 points cheaper and Double D guns.
>>46697500
Not any better then a Knight Crusader would
>>46697506
Allies of Convenience baby! Count your Stompa as something actually useful. Or hell, take two Renegade Knights for the cost of one Stompa!
>>46697210
>>46697182
>>46697298
>>46697500
Big Box of Monkeys - Part 2
The rules for firing overwatch from transports says a unit embarked can only fire overwatch, not that the vehicle itself can only fire overwatch once. Even though there are only 20 fire points on a stormlord, you can still push out 40 heavy flamer Wall of Death attacks if you are charged by multiple units (only choose enough units (or up 20 models) to kill the current charger and save some extra units for the next).
Unless I'm misreading this somewhere?
>>46697552
>a unit embarked can only fire overwatch once,*
>>46697552
Where are you getting they you can fire more then 20 weapoms from 20 fire points?
>>46697324
>switching to a Xenos they will fear.
>the making of a villain.
Why switch off an army you like? Just to win? That makes you no better than them.
>>46697234
Well you could do it before with Daemons anyway. Now you have more options, which is nice
>>46697535
Wraithknight is stupidly undercost. I love the model, and play eldar, but I can't bring myself to buy it.
But then I play the game to have fun, and the challenge of a fairly even match is where I get my fun.
>>46696800
>No marks
>No Unique chaos wargear
>That shit pose / scheme
>No Daemon / possession
>No relic options
>Shittier than the FW one
>Shittier than the Kytan
>selling us the same shit
>more Lords of war in 40k
>more shit 'stand alone' board games
0/10 hype / interest.
If they want to give us 'Renegade' release some Renegade guard models already. Not to mention We STILL don't have a non snapfit cultist or havoc/chosen kit
>>46697531
Chaos could get Wraithknights and you'd still complain that they don't have Marks or that Eldar still have other Wraith units you didn't get.
>>46697593
Multiple charges. They can only fire up to 20 against a single charge, but if they kill that unit (IE aren't engaged in assault) the other embarked units can fire overwatch (again up to 20) if they are charged by another unit. They are separate shooting attacks, and I don't see anything that specifies that once a firepoint has been used, it cannot be used again that turn.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
only guns on a giant mecha? Careful, Chaos, wouldn't want people thinking you're Tau, now would you?
>>46697624
Well, again, I don't play CSM, so I don't have a horse in this race. And your analogy would be correct if you waved the wraithknight in front of CSM players as evidence that everything's right with the world and they should stop saying anything, while ignoring the fact that loyalists have had the wraithknight and all the other wraith units for years.
>>46697673
It's S10 AP2 with stomp even unarmed. You aren't giving up much Melee potential by taking twin Gatling canons, just that little edge against other Superheavies and good invulnerable saves.
>>46697673
Nah. Its Loyalists that are Tau now. They're the ones with the OP units that the players insist are 'totally fair no really' and have to bring other units that aren't as broken in order to tone things down.
>>46697623
FW does everything for your Knightly Needs. Unfortunatly you pay much much more than the GW-Savings box (pic related)
Rules with ALL THE SHIT:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Chaos_Knight.pdf
>>46697652
my thought would be that after the first charge the vehicle would count as engaged, so wouldn't be able to fire overwatch.
At the end of the assault phase the vehicle is automatically unengaged, but I think that doesn't happen until the end of the assault phase.
>>46697714
Why does his SWORD have a bayonet?
>>46697686
Yes? Getting a thing somebody else had should be 'thanks for finally giving us this' not 'REEE give us the other ones too!'
Especially not while simultaneously ignoring things that Chaos got that Imperials didn't.
>>46697711
it's not the units. They have good units, but they're in the top group not dominating it.
It's the new formation that make me go "I'm sorry necrons, you're detachments and formations aren't the most OP."
>>46697745
BecauseKHAAAAAAAYOOOOOOOSSSS!
>>46697745
To give +1 on the D table :^)
>>46697745
Have you tried stabbing something with a chainsaw?
>>46697745
Because in Chaos even the swords have swords, and the guns have extra guns on them
>>46697745
that's the part he uses to really fuck MCs and GCs
>>46697745
Warpsmith looked WAY too deep into some funny smelling powder.
This ain't renegade, this is the real deal. There is no logical explanation
>>46697745
for stabbin when hes choppin
these 'new' knights arent even getting their own kit, are they?
>>46697623
Well I'd take it over the FW or Kytan if I wanted a ranged Knight.
The FW and Kytan are nice as well, but they seem more melee oriented.
>>46697810
Nope, because its just the Imperial knight for Chaos with a few extra weapon variations.
>>46697724
The first rule (first sentence even) of Locked In Combat is
>If a unit has one or more models in base contact with an enemy model (for any reason), then it is locked in combat.
If a charge fails, they are not locked.
Also, for the same reason, they aren't considered locked until they are in B2B contact. See
>If you follow this sequence, you will end up with all the models in the charging unit in unit coherency, having engaged as many enemy models as possible with as many charging models as possible. The two units are now locked in combat (see below).
>now
Centurion Devastators.
Are they worth taking? I'm guessing you want to slap grav cannons and grav amps on them?
>>46697762
Ignoring the fact that both factions have equal amounts of rights to said units, is a dishonest way of looking at things.
>>46697745
Blood for the blood god.
Blood for the blood god.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
BLOOOOOD FOR THE BLOOOOOD GOOOOOOD!
>>46697652
As written only a single embarked unit can attempt overwatch since it says "an embarked unit" referring to a singular unit
>>46697835
Yes with exception. If you're a son of dorn like me, you need to put lascannons and missiles on them for the ultimate long range tank hunters
>>46697835
they're a well known deathstar unit with one of the best guns in the game anon
>>46697745
stab and cut loyalist scum; murder twice as hard as those without it
>>46697836
Well, Forgeworld was rather good about adding their Knights into the Imperial Knight codex. I'd give it a month before they release a FAQ letting you take all of theirs in this Renegade formation as well.
>>46697835
Naw man, you need the twin heavy bolters to really stick it to them Ork playing faggots, where's Grav gonna get you? 6+ to wound? pfft
Be sure to drop-pod in close for that sweet overwatch. :^)
>>46697828
And a 'conversion tutorial' for making a renegade knight head shield (NZ page has it already online).
Its literally cut a part from that bit, looks cool but nothing on the chaos knight.
>>46697866
Oh, then I will do that.
Right now I have two full heavy bolter devastator squads that make me laugh when they just gun everything down with ease.
>>46697872
Sorry anon, it seems that I, and most of my group, live under a huge rock.
>>46697877
>:^)
Im a bit amazed that to this day this is how you spot a retard.
>>46697877
>>slow and purposeful
>>dat overwatch
Top satire, my lord.
>>46697862
So only 12 heavy flamers per charge, which still allows the other 3 units of jokaero (12+12+12+4=40) to fire against subsequent chargers.
>>46697900
I honestly don't know what people were expecting. We saw the contents of the boxed game was 2 normal Knight kits. We saw pictures of the renegade Knight. We knew it was going to be something to let you take Knights with Chaos.
Who was expecting new weapons or bits from this? There was no indication of such a thing. I'm honestly more surprised that we got the double gun thing instead of a rules blurb about being able to take a Knight house as-is with Chaos.
>>46697904
Hell yeah. I usually stuff mine into tac squads. Would love to run heavy bolters in devastators.
If you've never centurioned before, they're great, the twinlinked tank hunters lascannons are great, but definitely keep them in cover and be aware that your opponent will attempt to tackle them into a useless melee asap
>>46697952
Yes if someone decided to charge your stormlord 4 times in a single assault phase you could get all 40 heavy flamers to overwatch
>>46697834
oh, so your saying if the first charge failes, possible due to the massive overwatch, then it's possible that the next charge could also be shot with overwatch.
That I do not know. But if the first charge succeeds, the answer is pretty clear.
>>46697913
>>46697933
Don't look now butThe post triggering you both MAY elude to the concept of doing any level of research at all before dropping into /tg/ to ask newfag questions.
>>46697972
I was not expecting anything. (except that they put the CSM vehicle sprue in there, like they did with the bastion, the predator, the rhino....)
I am rather thankful they did that. Not becasue of the looks, there is always FW, but because the datasheet from that can be used for the armada of "No Forgeworld in my games" crybabies.
>>46697998
Heavy bolters in tactical squads?
I might have to try that.
>>46698000
Yeah, that's what I was saying, though I doubt you'd need all 40. The redundancy would mostly be in case someone tries to send a throw-away model at it to waste overwatch (locked in if you ignore it, no more overwatch if you kill it). Considering what might remain after 15 AP3 shorts (or 30 shots), I can see a few small units sticking around after moral checks.
I'm fairly new to the game, but I had assumed assault was a somewhat common way of getting rid of super-heavy tanks for the free rear-hit melta bombs or whatever.
>>46696800
I really want to take a Knight with a Meltagun and Double-Thermal cannons, but something tells me that's a bad idea
>>46698086
They don't do much but are great for manning defense lines, bastions with more heavy bolters, gun emplacements
>>46698140
Makes sense.
It'll be fun to try against the guys in my group who love to play horde armies.
>>46698114
>I'm fairly new to the game, but I had assumed assault was a somewhat common way of getting rid of super-heavy tanks for the free rear-hit melta bombs or whatever.
The first problem is getting there (unless you are that super-speal-snoflake-skyhammer-assault-squad) as most superheavies are rather long ranged and want to stay in a protective infantry shield, for precisely that reason. The second is, that an exploding superheavy tends to kill much of the stuff nearby so you lose the attackers.
Does someone have all of the Godbreaker Clash shit, since GW is now giving pre-orders for a boxed game?
>>46698114
Depends on the army. Plenty of armies are really good at shooting them down (SM, Tau, Eldar) and then plenty of units that would charge a super heavy wouldn't care about a bunch of heavy flamers (such as Walkers and Super Heavy Walkers)
>>46698182
YOU RANG?
>>46697900
figures
>'just convert it csm players, fuck you'
gee thanks gw, ill be sure to run out and buy your $150 manlet knight just to cut it to bits and cover it in green stuff, thanks gw!
>>46698134
I kind of want the double Battle Cannon or double Avenger Gattling Cannon myself.
The Double Thermal and Melta seems a good choice if confronting enemy Walkers or vehicle squadrons though.
>>46698286
Yeah, I think the other options are better overall, though triple-melta is appealing to me heavily.
Double Gatling sounds cool as well, and it's probably a better option since I don't tend to face as many vehicles.
>>46698182
>explode results
yeah, those are a thing, and why I've learned to try to keep my Fire Dragons at exactly 6 inches away when they shoot.
At the moment the majority of there failed moral test have happened at the end of MY shooting phase.
>>46697814
>The FW and Kytan are nice as well, but they seem more melee oriented.
If only the FW one could take the gauntlet and be around 325 pts. My club is pretty much okay with me playing my knight of Khorne full melee, but I wish I could do it officially
>>46698255
The converted knight does look pretty cool, IF you can paint that well.
We also get a transfer sheet.
>>46698218
the most broken part about that isn't the charge from deepstrike, it's Suppressing Fusilade.
Both assault squads could die from deep strike mishap and it would still be stupidly good.
>>46698328
I like how that variant of the Knight face looks like they're cocking an eyebrow.
>>46698328
im sure tons of conversions look cool, the problem is that you shouldnt have to convert a $150 model. like gw couldnt have just thrown in an extra sprue with some different shoulders/helmets/whatever, bastards.
>>46698350
Suppressing Fusillade is disgusting.
Oh hey gw put out a new guide on conversion
>>46698362
Thats what I mean with conversion, its very simple but looks rather cool.
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Datasheets/litany-destruction-conversion-guide-en.pdf
>>46698255
What's the different is there with loyalist and Chaos vehicles? Like rhinos, land raiders and predators? A sprues of spikes and chains?
>>46698408
>Just fuck up one of the eye slits
Genius
>>46697184
THE BIG RED FUCKER WITH THE BIG D
BANE OF SMASHFUCKER
>>46698408
>just cut your $150 in half and file on it for like 6 hours
thanks geedubs
>>46698420
Spikes, chains, a few gribbly bits and symbols.
Really, anyone who plays Chaos probably has plenty of spikes lying around already.
>>46698420
yes
You loose the imperial sprue with the stormbolter and the marine but you get a bigger one with a combi bolter a traitor marine a hoard of spikey bits and some chaos symbols.
>>46698439
Can't wait for those sick nurgle conversions that involve a power drill and a bunch of greenstuff!
>>46698408
>one image
>saved as a .pdf
... Outside of that, this is actually a decent conversion guide. Definitely a cool idea for customization.
>>46698454
each kit has like ten masks in it
>>46698408
Step 1) Stab it in the face
Step 2) There is no step 2
>>46698470
You forgot HAvoc Launchers, which are actually a pretty great deal for their cost.
>>46698505
yet they couldnt make 1 of them a chaos mask.
once again, thanks gw
>>46698404
>lets give them Pinning
>oh, that would be good combo, but lets go further and have it be on 3d6
>and not require any wounds
>Oh, and still have it preven overwatch on a success.
>and that way it will even work against fearless units.
At no point did anyone realize that you could have just that ability and it would be one of the most powerful effects in the game. Being able to first turn make any two units have to make pinning check on 3d6. and every turn after that too.
I'd pay 200 pts just to be able to do that. Not even having the decimators shooting, just the pin checks.
>>46698455
>>46698470
I have to say I'd be a bit surprised if GW didn't throw the CSM spike and chain sprue into the kit for laughs. They did it with the bastion.
>>46698515
I don't like them
Prefer combi-melta on rhino, both are too expensive. Unfortunatly there is no dozer blade although that is pretty much vital.
>>46698526
>I am a renegade player but I also hate converting things for some reason
all they've really done with this is give official rules to all the dudes who have been making their own chaos knights already
I have narrowed down my army choice to Necrons and Astra Militarum.
For the table top I like the idea of having Rank and File troops backed up by artillery or hard hitting big guns and from my understanding both of these armies to it in strives.
Fluffwise the both have a lot that I like, perhaps slightly leaning Necrons.
Unfortunately they seem very boring to paint.
Any one who plays either army want to weight in and give me their thoughts? Either army will be pretty infantry heavy.
Not sure how much I will play yet but I like the idea of modeling and painting and apparently there are two differnt Games Workshops within 30 minutes of me. As well as two other stores I need to check out.
>>46698373
not having anything actually new in the kit is probably why they've been able to put a big discount on it.
>>46698589
i dont hate converting things, i hate having to convert $150 things.
>>46698573
Probably does not look too good on it. But looks good on the bastion.
>>46698604
spikes r hard
>>46698598
Necrons will be easier to play, easier to paint and significantly cheaper, because inf. guard means 100+ models, which means $$$$$ and is obnoxious to move around on the table.
>>46698603
how big a discount we talking?
>>46698598
>Unfortunately they seem very boring to paint.
The best thing about Warhammer in general is that this never has to be the case if you don't want it to be. You an paint or convert your dudes however you want.
>>46698598
I've seen some good Astra Militarum paint jobs. If you go for a more ornimental and brightly colored look to the infantry, like 18th century uniforms, they can be pretty diverse, and that sort of uniform does exist in the Guard. The tanks are a little more basic, but pick a good camo scheme and they are pretty cool.
Necrons are probably the more powerful army, but if you want an interesting paint job you need to go outside the guidelines for standard necron schemes. There are some good ones, but those are all "fuck it I do what I want" in regards to canon.
>>46698659
It's 2 knights for $190, plus a terrain box. The Knights are basically 80 each.
>>46698656
>tfw i wanted to play infantry guard but im not made of money
>>46698604
Read the thread. Aquire the CSM vehicle sprue and put spikes with heads on the carapace OR shell out 115 Pounds for forgeworld.
GW gives you a lot of options.
>>46698604
You don't have too convert it though.
GW just decided to show you how they did their conversion incase you wanted too cppy their example knight.
>>46698598
Honestly, I prefer the Guard, as for one, they're more like Your Dudes to me, plus, you could paint them in tacticool or historical schemes if you want.
Plus, you get legitimate Artillery units if you want them.
>>46698656
However, this Anon is completely right, however.
>>46698680
I feel your pain, Anon.
I want to do a bunch of Heavy Weapons Teams and Tanks.
Gonna paint them a Light Blue and Tan when I get them, instead of Green and Tan.
>>46697745
Why doesn't YOUR sword have a bayonet, Anon? Too chickenshit to handle a REAL weapon?
>>46698659
a bit over 30%
>>46698598
Like any faction painting is as interesting as you make it.
>Chaos players bitching about getting to do some actual modelling to get stuff to look like Chaos stuff.
Is this what modern 40K players are like? Is the creative drive that far gone that we all just blindly assemble what the instruction booklet says and can't think outside the box?
>>46698702
>GW just decided to show you how they did their conversion incase you wanted too cppy their example knight.
thats fine, and good they should do more conversion hobby type shit.
but theres no excuse why they couldnt give you an extra sprue.
>>46698676
eh, if they sold em for $80 each just by themselves i might get one, but fuck buying 2 knights.
>>46698752
But mate, it's literally the price of one knight+ about $33.
You're saving a huge amount of money?
Just sell the other knight?
>>46698710
im so tempted to dump my ~2k of excess financial aid next semester into some infantry guard
but that might be a dumb idea
>>46698738
Thinking outside the box doesn't grant a formation benefit for one's decurion.
>>46698752
>fuck buying 2 knights.
Well, this might be a bit of a long shot, but if you have what is known in some circles as a 'friend', you might be able to split the box with them.
>>46698598
Astra what? Son, you're in the Guard now.
>>46694188
What would /tg/ think if terminators and mega armour conferred -1 penalty against ap? Making ap2 weapons into ap3 and ap1 into 2 to represent the grade of protection the armour confers to the user, would it be a good idea?
>>46697521
>tfw just want to bring three helldrakes and burn down and endless horde of marines.
Basically you just want to have fun at the other persons expense.
>>46698788
armies are better done over time, rather than dumping all your money into it at once
>>46698781
>Just sell the other knight?
sounds like a pain in the ass. i dont even like the manlet knights but if they dropped them cheap enough id get one.
just give me a plastic warhound already gw you fucksticks
>>46698752
>but theres no excuse why they couldnt give you an extra sprue
because there's no real need for one.
>>46698811
Sounds similar to the 1+ save idea, but in a way that actually works with the rules.
I like the idea, since it forces you to use meltaguns and the like to take out terminators more reliably, but at the same time it screws over a lot of armies.
Orks lack much AP 2 as is, and other giant monsters smashing them would also have no effect.
>>46698790
>tfw my friend plays nids so he sees no point in splitting boxes with me
>>46698853
Really? Not even that new Deathwatch box?
>>46698844
>because there's no real need for one.
>hurrr just glue some toothpicks on it
>>46698870
he doesn't want genestealers for ??? reasons
>>46698811
>>46698851
In the other thread this was already acknowledged as a problem. There are like two AP 1 melee weapons in the game, and plenty of armies lack/seriously struggle with fielding genuine AP 1 AV.
>>46698885
your friend is probably homosexual
>>46698811
that's the same problem as calling a 1+ save and is not a good idea.
Because while AP2 is pretty common, there are whole armies with virtually no AP1, and the number of models with AP1 in melee can be counted on 1 hand.
Do you see the problem.
I think I am going to go with Necrons, thanks all.
>>46698724
Those look sick. I liked the Necrons look but hadn't seen too many colored. Especially not well.
>Miami-Crons
lel
>>46698710
>more like Your Dudes
Yeah I like that aspect of them and their personality but there is probably more I like about necrons. They do have a lot more choices of artillery it seems.
>>46698669
>>46698668
>"fuck it I do what I want" in regards to canon.
Paint jobs dont really effect in game stuff right? Will people not like armies painted outside of the norm? Does it "ruin immersion" or whatever?
>>46698656
The entirety of your post convinced me.
>>46698873
>Asks for extra sprue
>Posts conversion done by someone who actually wasn't lazy and did it themselves.
>>46698873
it's a renegade knight. If you want a full blown mutated spikefest chaos knight forgeworld has had that covered for a while now.
>>46698895
in the 23 years i've known him, he's never even been on a date so probably
>>46698873
>that fucking chainsword
>>46696800
I'll expect a FAQ for loyal knights to allow two Gatling autocannons on them.
>>46698919
yeah, fw also offers knights that dont look like retarded manlets.
whats my incentive to care about this new box, huh gw?
>>46698892
>>46698851
>>46698811
>>46698896
What if it only worked against Ranged weapons? Then melee attacks with AP 2 would still work on them, but they'd be safer from AP 2 blasts everywhere.
>>46698933
cheap knights and rules for renegade or chaos knights with the more recently released weapon options.
>>46698927
>Loyalists constantly give reasons why Chaos shouldn't have grav weapons or otherwise just get loyalist stuff
>Chaos gets something a bit different in the form of being able to take multiple guns in a way that's probably considered tech heresy due to not being a valid Pattern of Knight
>Loyalists crawling out of the woodwork to explain why they should be able to take two guns.
>>46698184
It does look like the charts that Renegade uses.
>>46698919
This. I don't get why people complain about no marks when the Knight isnt even full on pants on head I'm going to forget how to repair this machine and be a lazy idiot and stick a daemon in.
>>46698934
Still don't like. The basic idea of giving them better defense against shooting than in melee (where they do alright if they get there) is good.
But can we please leave the idea of a 1+ save go. Instead having the invulne save be better against ranged, and rerolled against blast/template.
>>46698962
>cheap knights
yes, but my dear friend ping ling can hook me up with even cheaper knights that are of superior FW design... and already had rules.
like im not seeing the selling point here
>>46698970
Not every loyalist is like that.
Can't wait to tell my mate that played chaos during 3rd with a near fully converted up army that nuchaos players are complaining about there being models sold that don't come with specific conversion parts. He'll get a good laugh out of that, guy spent weeks asking round for heavy bolter parts for his tzeentch dreadnought of bullshittery that would be really powerful even today.
When are fortifications placed? During your deployment, or before objectives and deployment?
>>46699029
And not every Chaos renegade immediately puts all their Grav Guns, storm shields, and knowledge of tactics into a pile and sets it on fire.
Yet here we are.
>>46699067
They have no choice or otherwise how else would the Chaos Gods get their kicks off your misery?
>>46698970
The ironing is delicious.
>>46696800
>Deffstorm cannon= avenger gattling cannon
>Kustom Mega Cannon= Thermal Cannon
>TL rokkit launcha=Ironstorm Missile pod
>Kustom Force Field= Ion Shield
>TL shoota=Heavy Stubber
>Klaw of Gork= Thunderstrike Gauntlet
Orkanauts were literally designed to be proxied as knights
Quick how do I build a viable 1500pt Chaos army around a Chaos knight?
>>46699225
yeah but can you put nobz in em?
>>46699029
#notallloyalists
>>46699242
>3 Chaos Knights
>Sorcerer coven for demon summoning
>cultists to flavor
>>46698970
I'm amazed Chaos Knights hasn't triggered them to demand loyalist Knights to get chapter tactics.
>>46699019
>like im not seeing the selling point here
at this point its just because you're clearly not a potential customer.
There are selling points but like always they all assume you're actually interested in the product.
>>46699250
Do all Nid players put wigs on their Hive Tyrants?
>>46699225
We have a Daemon Player who really likes Nurgle so his Pink Horrors are Grots and the leader (I forgot what the unit is called) is the runtherd. He nurgled them out a bit but even he prefers to say they are corrupted Orks.
>>46699055
before terrain even i think.
definitely before objectives and deployment.
>>46699277
>before terrain even i think.
Nope.
>If a fortification is taken as part of an army, then it is set up with the rest of the units in the army using the same deployment rules as the other models
>>46699251
It's still a problem because there are plenty of non-broken AP2 shooting attacks that should work against termies still. The issue isn't lascannons or plasma or anything like that, AP 2 large blasts aren't all that common either. Riptides are just that absurd.
The problem isn't the 2+ save, it's the points invested in that vs. how easily they die when not getting that save. A better native invuln save would improve their durability and usability without fucking over entire armies. I know people want terminators to be useful, but that doesn't mean you force everyone to always have to shoot at a 2+ armor save that you can now make rerollable with librarians anyhow.
>>46699270
When they are in the mood, yes. Magnets were made for Tyrants
Any thoughts on how the Renegade Knight will synergize with Chaos Space Marines?
Outside of a cheap Lord of War with shooting and melee options, what else does it bring to the table for them?
>>46699415
Show me a wigged Tyrant.
>>46696768
They don't have numbers
Older sprues weren't packed tight enough to need them
>>46698970
>Implying GW won't do this to sell more sets and not because game balance.
This was never about balance anon, this is a selling strategy.
>>46699322
How do buildings enter play from Reserves? Because the rules say that if something doesn't fit into your deployment zone, it's held in Reserves. How does it enter play?
>>46699432
>Outside of a cheap Lord of War with shooting and melee options, what else does it bring to the table for them?
A semi-decent unit?
>>46699432
An actually good LoW?
>>46699507
It has to use it normal movement to enter the table from your board edge.
If it cant move it cant enter play.
>>46699432
>what else does it bring to the table for them?
nothing? Chaos already had access to knights.
This just means they have access to every possible configuration of knight.
>>46699543
>>46699507
immobile units deepstrike
Is Tabletop Simulator + 40K models a good idea, or should I just stick to physical models?
>>46699543
So if I take immobile units, and the mission makes me leave them in Reserves, I've just lost part of my army for no reason? Or if the deployment zone that I ended up with doesn't have a space to fit my trenches, I just paid for nothing?
>>46699603
no. they deepsrike instead.
>>46697544
I was just despairing over the absurd point cost of my magnificent Stompa model. This made my day.
>>46699432
Gives them the ability to put two melta cannons or an entire leman russ squadron worth of battle cannons on a single unit. Chaos Knights are arguably the better melee option still, and their ability to take dirge casters as well is a godsend. So most renegade usage should be for artillery support I figure. Works out pretty well since Chaos desperately needs better options at range.
>>46699616
>>46699594
Where does this read, because I can't find this in the rulebook anywhere.
>>46699386
A better invulnerable save? Then use cathaphractii, but then again those would be buffed to 3++ if the normal ones become 4++, and even with that rule they'll still die to mass fire and full terminator armies aren't that numerous anyway, I don't really see the problem if the rule only works on the shooting phase.
>>46699616
>>46699594
Where in the rules does it say this?
I just reread them and it said nothing of the sort.
>>46699603
>>46699507
Actually rereading it, it says if it can't move on to the board you should place it the minimum distance required for it to be on the board.
>>46699690
But if a building didn't have enough room to be deployed during deployment phase, how will it fit during gameplay?
>>46699731
You're the Imperial Fists and you want to be avle to deploy supplementary fortifications if your primary fortifications are destroyed?
>>46699616
>>46699594
Neither the rulebook nor stronghold mentions this. Got a book and a page number I can check out?
>>46699763
That does sound like the Fists.
>>46699432
well our other lords of war are mostly terrible
>lord of skulls, chaos thunderhawk greater brass scorpion; great but overly expensive when you can get 2 knights for the price.
>samus; really? you would consider this guy?
>corbax; largely okay but slow
>typhon & fellblade, great but forgeworld stigmata
>kytan; rapes everything in melee but only 5++ and forgeworld
>chaos knight; yes yes yes
>old forgotten apoc superheavies; they are old forgotten and outdated but fuck man if i could get a subjator for my slaanesh daemons
>>46698993
ohhhhh, now to homebrew up some rules for other superheavies and models their size. trygon, ork walkers, brass scorpion are about the same size
>>46699803
I might have my editions mixed up. It was definitely that way in 6e at least.
I'll flick through my rulebooks and see if i can find it when i get home tonight
>>46699763
No, I'm just wondering since some of those buildings are quite fucking huge and take up a lot of space. So if you happen to have lots of terrain, it can be difficult to fit something like the macro-cannon or a skyshield into your deployment zone. Skyshield has the benefit of being raised up, but we, for example, have lots of tall buildings and towers and such at the FLGS.
I know it's a small chance you can't deploy a building, but the chance exists and I'm wondering what's the procedure for it. Previously fortifications were deployed before terrain, buy after sides were rolled.
>>46699837
You're right about 6E. I'm going to go recheck if I can find this in 7E as well.
>>46699681
I know you're mad about dying to ap 2 blasts but if you can't see the problem with just reducing all AP 2 shooting to dick useless against termies you are bugging
>>46699444
>>46699837
>>46699803
>>46699616
>>46699594
This is no longer the case in 7E (apparently). I went through searching for both "immobilized" and "deep strike" rules across the book.
Pic related compares the 6E immobilzed-deep strike description (left) to the same part of the rules in 7E (right), and there is no mention.
>>46699386
I'd argue that the problem is that they die too easily to massed small arms fire and that they don't have an offensive output commensurate with their cost. Increase Storm Bolters to Salvo 2/3 or even 2/4, have Terminator Armor give +1 T.
This also makes it more of a trade-off of mobility versus durability for characters with access to a bike and terminator armor.
>>46700135
My sides.
>>46700147
I'd like Terminators to have the equivilent of Heavy Bolters for their guns. 3 shots, S 5 AP 4. That would make them more threatening than basic tacticals at least.
I really do agree that +1 toughness is the best change, if only for the reason that you'll have less people choosing Bikes because they want their Warlord to be more survivable.
>>46700186
But don't bikes add +1 T?
>>46700147
>>46700186
My personal quick-fix to termy shooting is to make the grav-cannon with amp a terminator-only weapon.
There is literally no reason why tacticals should have better weapons than termies. If that was your only source to super-OP grav, people would be buying them like hotpockets.Of course, grav cents is another wrench in it, but at least it gives more diversity than grav dev squads.
>>46700220
Exactly, which is why whenever somebody wants to make sure their HQ is better at not-dying, they go for Bikes rather than the giant heavy suit of armor.
It might not make the most sense, but Bikes being more survivable than Terminators is really jarring when they're supposed to be the mobility option.
