What would an anarcho-capitalist fantasy setting look like, /tg/?
D&D.
>>46696292
Think Industrial Revolution with magic, Dwarves, Elves, and shit.
Rapture?
The same as any other, but with no roads.
Literally any setting without civilization.
Like any normal feudal setting.
>>46696312
D&D lends itself most closely to authoritarianism, since power would naturally accumulate in the hands of the highest level individuals.
>>46696292
Magical Victorian England
Something like 17th century Holland. Everything run by merchant guilds who contract out armies and sailors.
>>46696292
Same as any other anarcho-capitalist setting: a dystopian hell-hole.
>mfw edgy teenagers will dispute this
Like a guild focused setting where everything is one of only a few guilds, but rather than being more traditional guilds they are actually companies, which is actually how a lot of fantasy settings set up guilds anyway.
>>46696292
If there's a group powerful enough to actually enforce anarcho-capitalism, then it's just a setting with a very powerful super-state that doesn't actually do its job and only maintains a facade of anarcho-capitalism.
If it actually is anarcho-capitalism, it will quickly evolve into feudalism.
>>46696292
Pre-feudal tribes and settlements dicking over each other. Some of them reserve to violence by hiring mercenaries. Soon warriors release they can fill vacuum of power and unite to conquer their rich clients.
>>46696457
>tribal politics
>anarcho-capitalism
>>46696391
>power would naturally accumulate in the hands of the highest level individuals.
You mean hard working titans of industry, self-made ubermensch who seized opportunity and earned their fortunes through the sweat of their brows and had the power to defy corrupt governments trying to steal from them.
>>46696465
Your point is?
>>46696465
MUH NAP MOTHAFUCKA
>>46696433
what's edgy about non aggression?
>>46696433
>t. bootlicking statist
>>46696482
>>46696489
>mooooooom, get out of my rooooooooom!!11!!! the ideology
>laughingsluts.jpg
>>46696480
>>46696482
>>46696489
>there are people in this thread
>who are literally ancaps
>implying coercive force is necessarily bad
>trusting the fate of human civilization to the blind idiot process of natural human interaction
>>46696482
The only safety net in your ideology that prevents it from becoming feudalism: part 2 is an overly idealistic non-aggression that nobody would follow if given a world where they're encouraged to get wealthy no matter what.
>>46696543
Why'd you reply to me? I was mocking the NAP.
>>46696594It's hard to tell with ancaps and lolbershits
>>46696292
murder hobos
>>46696482
Aggression is natural solution to economic conflicts. With so many parties involved and without supreme unifying power violence will rise everywhere.
Your ancap fantasy is greedy capitalist hippy communities which somehow survive through competition without killing each other.
Look up medieval Iceland. Read the Sagas of Icelanders. If not, just assume everything is run by private guilds.
>>46696292
however you imagine it
The plot could involve the hostile takeover of a trading company by assassinating and coercing important shareholders.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term "corporate raiders"
>>46696652
>greedy capitalist hippy
I'm now imagining a hybrid of hippies and those douchey business faggots with the Bluetooths. Thanks anon.
My setting has a city like that. Led by the three bigest money makers and the lady who founded it with her mercenary army. It's a mixed bag. In some ways a beacon of progress, but the poor tend to get royally dicked unless they're very resourceful. Only the very rich or violent have real power.
That's my ignorant interpretation of an anarcho-capitalist city. Am I dumb?
Here's it's governors.
So basically Shadowrun?
>>46696292
That completely depends on the history of the setting, anon.
If it was *always* anarco-capitalist, then it's basically super small hunter gatherer groups who wander around and trade or fight as they can manage. Because there is no recognized form of authority, the strongest rule through fear. So if it's technologically evolved enough, you're looking at a fascist state, one with a supreme ruler (with supreme personal power) and no constitution. Realistically they'd still be small groups, barring some kind of God-King.
If it's some post apocalypse, then you're looking at a highly diverse and numerous bunch of groups (depending on scarcity). Drifters and family units squatting in some previously constructed shelter and guarding it against their neighbors.
In high power fantasy or sci-fi, you're looking at the Dancers at the End of Time series, where everyone is basically a god that never really dies, who live out hedonistic lifestyles according to their whims. They have no *concept* of morality or ethics, nor of hierarchy or state.
In something recognizably modern, you're looking at corporations (or guilds) who control the land and work together only for profit, but mostly fight each other(fiscally).
>>46696292
Mad max
>>46696482
I want your shit and I take it from you by force. I was able to succeed because my violent army extracts more taxes by force than your citizens would volunteer.
>>46696468
Or just by murdering everyone that disagrees with them.
But what's the difference really?
>>46696468
>>46697241
Ideally both types would exist to create drama and tension in the setting
>>46696391
So Anarcho Capitalism in a nutshell
>>46697065
Can something be considered anarchist when there's a clear line of who's in charge? I thought anarchy was about noone holding the power outside of the individual.
From your pic it looks like the dwarf and human hold the majority of the power while the elf and orc are wealthy business owners who have bought, or in the case of the orc 'bought', their way into power
How can private property be enforced without coercion? What happens when people in the city don't want to pay the private military to protect them from raiders anymore? Are they forced out, or do you just inform raiders that you'll let them have that guy's house, or are you going to protect that house anyway and let them get a free ride?
>>46696468
Also that guy who can shoot fire out of his eyes
>>46697297
Politically, it's more about volunteers taking care of shit rather than having legislation.
It ..uh, usually ends with someone taking charge and instituting legislation.
>>46697330
Sshh, Ancaps don't like economics or socio-political realities.
>>46697297
See, that's the issue: anarchy lasts ten minutes, tops, before some people get organized. They organized voluntarily, but their cooperation gives them a huge advantage over the swarm of individuals. The individuals can either accept getting fucked over by the group, or form their own group in response. And now you have competing organized groups. Even the nice groups aren't totally voluntary, because if you're gonna live under their protection (from the asshole groups) they're gonna make you chip in for the cost of that protection.
Nations and tribes happen, pretty much immediately.
>>46697330
>How can private property be enforced without coercion?
It can't. Anarcho-capitalism is not pacifism. Anarcho-capitalist want to achieve a peaceful society, but know that the threat of violence is the best deterrence.
> What happens when people in the city don't want to pay the private military to protect them from raiders anymore?
They would be raided, because this would be a rather stupid idea.
>>46697297
I find it hard to even imagine how anarchism would work on a large scale. Even Rapture had some vague council in charge.
I could see a anarchist town or village working, I think some communes exist like that in the real world.
>>46697427
What if not everyone wants to pay for guards? Where's the downside of living in the city with protection someone else is paying for?
You either have to make chipping in for the guards mandatory, or have the guards kick out anyone who doesn't chip in. Now you have taxes. And who decides which mercenary company to hire? Whoever makes that decision is the government.
Anarchy isn't a "bad idea," like armor made of tin. It's a nonsense idea, like flying by farting a lot.
>>46696292
Ever play planetside? The NC fit this to a T. Now take their mindset, replace all technology with either its medievil or magitech base. And you have warhammer fantasy RPG. Now remove all factions and add mad mages and aberrations. Now make it nigh impossible to enforce law and you have the baseline of the setting.
>>46697458
Yeah, the maximum size is 200 people, because that's the maximum number of people the average person can know personally. Any more than that, some members of the group are strangers to each other, and someone needs to be coordinating things.
>>46697330
The short answer is that you can't. Anarcho-Capitalism makes Communism look positively practical on the scale of "It only works on paper".
>>46697561
>The NC fit this to a T.
I thought they were supposed to be a vague "freedom fighter" rebel group?
>>46696292
It would preserve freedom.
>>46697427
How is that not a state?
>>46697645
Dennis was an anarcho-syndicalist bro.
>>46697555
>What if not everyone wants to pay for guards?
Depends. Some communities might make it mandatory to pay for them. Some might say that if you don't pay for them they "only" protect the borders of the community, but not really your own home. Some might say that only those that can pay them really pay them, and poorer people don't need to and still can enjoy the protection. Though I can't really give a clear answer here because every of those fictional communities can have their own way of dealing with this problem.
>And who decides which mercenary company to hire?
The people maybe? Let me foresee what you will say. Yes, a decision like this would be something like a government. Anarcho-capitalists don't have a problem with people organizing themselves. You may call this a government, they call it a natural order.
>>46697661
Is a family where the father decides a state?
maybe define a state first.
>>46697600
It's an army coalition of space rednecks and private mercenaries.
They fight ayy lmao worshiping cultists with giant asses and hyperstatist greater good bullet spammers.
Planetside factions are all awesomely different flavors of terrible
>>46697732
>It's an army coalition of space rednecks and private mercenaries.
So The Moon is a Harsh Mistress?
>>46697458
Anarchy happens at a small scale on the large scale. Theory on international relations deals with the way states behave in the anarchy that is the international stage. Realist theory in particular focuses on the state as a sort of individual seeking it's self-interest at the expense of other states. Liberalism (neo-liberalism now, I guess) believe in multi-national organizations pounding some cooperative organization out of the chaos and creating quasi world governments.
>>46697691
What's to stop the mercenary company pressuring people to hire them?
>>46697767
>What's to stop the mercenary company pressuring people to hire them?
Another mercenary company that doesn't consist of complete assholes. The people themselves, truly armed and ready to defend their freedom. The prospect of having customers that fucking hate your guts and will try every opportunity to fuck you over. The prospect to be known as the mercenary company that's so shitty to his customers that no one will ever hire them again.
>>46697845
That's a real nice pipe-dream there, but most people are apathetic as shit.
You people are not better than the Communists, you're both deluded utopian nutcases.
>>46697845
>that doesn't consist of complete assholes
Why do you call them assholes? They pursue their economic interests.
>>46697845
Ah, so this is a completely fantasy world then?
Really though, extorting protection is not exactly "complete assholery", at least not where armed forces are concerned
>>46697767
There would be competition in the marketplace. Some mercenaries could also set up shop as an affordable anti-extortion protection agency
>>46697908
That'd collapse in the first mob war and the winner would be the group with the pointiest sticks.
Shadowrun
>>46697667
Same thing.
Like a gigantic pile of burning car-tires.
>>46697908
Well you'd hope so - but is anti-extortion a better business than extortion?
>>46697887
They aren't assholes, but their customer service wouldn't be so great nahmsayn?
>>46697940
>but is anti-extortion a better business than extortion
When you want to differentiate yourself in the marketplace it is
>>46697932
>Same thing.
Not at all. Anarcho-Syndicalists are socialists.
>>46697645
Literally the opposite of anarcho-capitalism.
>>46696292
>anarcho-capitalist
How does that work? I mean, from what I know of anarchism mutual cooperation and redistribution of limited resources are cornerstones of the societal organization in their proposed systems. Competition for limited resources, selfish accumulation and concentration of wealth in a minority of groups or individuals, those are hallmarks of capitalism, and I don't really get how they're reconciled. The tendency of a capitalist system is that wealth and power is concentrated in a minority of people, but minority rule can't really be called anarchistic on an ideological level.
>>46697932
Syndicalism is socialist
>>46697974
>Anarcho-Syndicalists are socialists
How so?
>>46697875
I'm not even an anarcho-capitalist myself, but a minarchist. But I just try to explain this kind of philosophy instead of just shitposting about how it would be like mad max. Not even saying that this kind of society would be perfect, just read all my posts. I never said that.
>>46697887
>They pursue their economic interests.
Really? Killing someone and robbing their whole home would pursue my own economic interests. But I won't do it because I'm not an asshole. Actually not being a complete asshole is the best economic strategy, except when you can use force. And you know who can provide the most force? The state. Companies that get supported by the state are the worst assholes.
>>46697894
But it is. There is a difference between providing a service and threaten someone to accept you to provide this service.
>>46698017
Ancaps aren't a real anarchist tendency. Its only called that becaude Murray Rothbard was a fan of stealing terms from leftists.
>>46698041
>Killing someone and robbing their whole home would pursue my own economic interests
Yes and?
>>46697929
Almost unironically this; some of the megacorps were basically founded by assholes who would be hailed as ancap heroes if it wasn't for the fact that they have a very broad view of what is their private property (aka 1/10 of the world)
One 3E book even mocked the neoanarchists (who are ancaps) as morons for essentially just wanting to reset the clock on capitalism in the vague hopes that it won't become megacorporations II a century down the line.
>>46698017
>How does that work?
Fairies and unicorns protect fragile ancap fantasy from reality
>>46697024
That's the entire Boomer generation in a nutshell.
>>46698041
No, you missunderstand.
Extorting protection is kind of on the low end, and is mostly benevolent, if the protection is actually provided.
What's on the actual assholish end is another thing entirely
>>46698063
Considering the tone of Shadowrun, banking on people not being assholes seems like a bad bet.
>>46698027
Socialism isn't letting the state do shit for you. Socialism is about giving the means of production to the workers. Anarchism is about rejecting unnatural authority and hierarchy, such as capitalism. Anarcho-Syndicalists with to organize society into worker controlled unions/syndicates. Its some basic ass socialism.
>>46698087
>Socialism is about giving the means of production to the workers
What does this mean? How does this work?
>>46697297
That's how imagine things end up. Someone always ends up on top and draws the line. People call them the governors because they have the most power, but they don't control anything by laws, but through coercion, trade and violence. There are all kinds of other powers in the city and in the nation, but if you do anything that threatens these powers, odds are you get bought, killed or sabotaged at the very least.
>>46698017
As far as I understand it anarcho-capitalism is a sort of misleading term that might as well be called corporatism, or capitalistic corporatism to narrow it down even further.
The cornerstone of an an-cap setting would be no King and no divine right, i.e. no one respects you or does what you say unless you're strong, smart, or rich
>>46698080
>No, you missunderstand.Well, I'm sorry. I know it's a bit of a lame excuse, but it's getting late here in euro-timezone and I'm also getting a bit drunk and should really not discuss such matter.
>>46698049
The term itself is weird to me. It's just two words meshed together even though they express contradictory ideologies.
>>46698110
I believe it's "you contribute, therefore you get stuff, and things aren't hoarded away from you - any profits the business make get reinvested or distributed to the workers", but I'm not 100% on that
>>46698110
Giving the workers the means of production means cutting hierarchical managment of industry and giving workers democratic control of them. Read Marx, he can explain it better than I can.
>>46698139
>no one respects you or does what you say unless you're strong, smart, or rich
How is it different from real world? Even monarchs had to prove their divine right to rule and show some competence.
>>46698179
>real world
We're talking about fantasy settings here anon. In which God's actually exist to give divine right
>>46698152
I'm on GMT and I've only drank one non-beer today - and even drunk you should know the mafia is not even the worst outcome
>>46698110
It means that instead of bosses, major decisions are taken by assemblies of workers within a shop, factory, or even industry.
You get broad cooperatives that can either try to compete or cooperate, usually in the case of syndicalism with unions providing an overarching framework.
>>46698201
Man, that would make shit so much easier
>>46698135
It's the complete opposite. The term "corporatism" was coined by fucking Mussolini, a known fascistand former socialistand he described it as a coalition between state power and financial capital.
It's far away from anarcho-capitalism or general libertarianism, where the state either doesn't exist or doesn't interfer with the market as much as possible.
>>46698264
Daily reminder that state capitalism is the superior political-economic system.
>>46698282
Get out of here China.
>>46698282
Yeah, I really like that my currency is inflating since 1913.
>>46698110
>How does this work?
Capitalist owns means of production, resources, tools, machines, buildings and other necessities. He use them to make profits but he can't produce goods by himself, he can't operate 20 machines at once, he can't do it himself, he needs workforce. Since workers are poor and he is rich, he can control them if they don't want to starve without any way to feed themselves or become criminals. Society needs a lot of goods and services produced by organizations which are controlled by capitalists due to historical process. Society has to maintain them but reorganize without capitalist at the top.
>>46698264
>it as a coalition between state power and financial capital
Sounds like crony capitalism to me
>>46698264
>fucking Mussolini, a known fascist
Implying there is anything inherently wrong with fascism. When will this meme end.
>>46698212
Well, I'm not only one hour ahead of, but also half a bottle of whiskey.
>>46698307
没有
>>46698314
The incompetence of libertarians and socialists who have infiltrated your central banks is of no concern to the power of state capitalism.
>he doesn't like MIGHT, POWER, TECHNOLOGY, and space
>>46698264
>a known fascist
Nigga he literally invented it.
>>46698364
>Championing for the losing side
>yfw /tg/ can have deeper political discussions than /pol/
Don't know what I expected
>>46698372
Thanks no, paper tiger with stolen technology
>>46698372
Hope the 50 cents was worth it for that shitpost.
>>46698372
>libertarians
>central banks
That only shows how little you know.
>>46698398
I'm not championing Fascist Italy, I'm just saying that Fascism isn't le ebil boogeyman it's made out to be.
>>46698403
Political discussion can be entertaining when it isn't entirely an echo chamber of a single ideology like /pol/ is.
>>46698412
你他妈的白色恶魔
中国强大了
中国将越来越大
>>46698428
I'll take "Who was Greenspan" for 500, Alex.
>>46698458
>thinking Greenspan was a libertarian
>Chinese education
>>46698353
All capitalism is inherently cronyism. The propertied run the show and trade and compete between each other. It was never a meritocratic system.
>>46698448
To be fair, Korea is basically a giant corporation and it's performed economically fantastically. Sure, being a citizen sucks ass and the government is heavily involved in your personal life and dissent is economically discouraged, but t's gone from shit to local powerhouse quickly.
>>46698264
>The term "corporatism" was coined by fucking Mussolini
No it wasn't. It was coined and debated at least as far back as the late 19th century. Mussolini wouldn't even have been of drinking age at the time. He and other fascist thinkers took a liking to the word and made use of it in the context of articulating fascist ideology and fascist society, but he's still not the first person to use it.
It's kinda like how most people think of Nazis instead of Nietsche when they hear the word "übermensch."
>>46698353
So, the natural inevitable state of all capitalist societies?
>>46698477
>implying he wasn't
>literally mentored by Rothbard
>was a member of Ayn Rand's inner circle of colleagues, and a staunch objectivist
>not a libertarian
wew.
>>46698458
Not without piggybacking success of developed countries. You have enough internal problems that will kick in sooner or later.
>>46698527
Alright, who did it first?
>>46698527
>of drinking age at the time
He wasn't 5?
>>46698541
>implying the west hasn't piggybacked off of others success as well
>implying there's anything wrong with this>这意味着我是中国人,而不是只是开玩笑
extropia seems like the best
>>46698594
I've just remembered that graph where Christianity is blamed for scientific stagnation of humanity and I've got a new question. Where was prosperous and advanced China the whole time? Why didn't it start exploring the galaxy?
>>46698706
Because China has pretty much been content to sit in their little corner of the world, and have too many issues with controlling the peasants and shitting on the Japanese to care about much else, with the exception of semi-colonizing Africa.
我不是中国人,你这白痴
anarcho-capitalism is fundamentally not anarchist
>>46698755
Fucking thank you.
Capitalism depends on the state to enforce a system of private property.
>>46698706
Literally any problem in china can be put down to civil war - they literally have civil war as part of their general view of how things work, that's how many times it has happened*I am drunk. Do not take this at face value
>>46696292
Somalia
>>46698565
I dunno. I know the word was definitely used as early as 1890, maybe even a decade earlier, but I really wouldn't be able to say when the word was first used or by whom.
>>46696292
>anarcho-capitalist
I'm not 100% on what that entails, but it sounds like one of the worst ideas conceivable.
>>46698706
>Christianity is blamed for scientific stagnation of humanity
Note: I realize you're not taking this position, so this isn't directed specifically at >(You).
LOLOLOL. There have been repeated plateaus and minor backslides in human knowledge. The fall of Rome, the second sack of Alexandria, and the sack of Baghdad are arguably the worst single events in the west for loss of knowledge and subsequent impact on scientific development. Christianity in the Middle Ages didn't so much repress advancement as widespread religiosity tamped the fires of curiosity -- same thing happened with Islam post 13th (some argue 15th) century.
Cino-Confuscianist thought has its own complacency trap: if it's worth knowing, the emperor (or The State in modern times) would already know it, or would have tasked some scholar with exploring and understanding the topic. Why make waves by bucking the status quo? Cultural Harmony Uber Alles.
>>46698807
Don't judge until you've tried it.
>>46698807
Anarcho-capitalism is the abolition of a state, with economic entities entering into mutual agreements forming the framework of all trade (and functionally all society). And yeah, it's a really horrible idea, even by the standard of napkin ideologies. It presupposes that everyone will act in rational self-interest at all times; that no party will ever use force, coercion, fraud, collusion, or monopoly to skew natural market behavior; and that simultaneous universal shunning will prove effective in policing anyone who breaks the above rules (which aren't rules, because this is anarchy).
>>46696292
Pretty sure David freedman wrote a book about a similar idea Its called Harald and a sequel called salamander.
>>46698960
This nigga gets it.
>>46698997
>David freedman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgUemV4brDU
What about Milton?
>>46698875
After reading up on it: It's exactly the dumb nightmare I expected it to be.
Shit like this can only be cooked up by completely shut in and removed from the world intellectuals. It's the philosophical equivalent of ivory tower game design.
It's the fucking Prisoner's Dilemma extended to an entire society. There are a lot more holes in this concept, but fucking first term Psychology is enough to completely wreck it.
>>46699135
I've long felt like this show could be used as supplementary study material in a political science class.
>>46698860
>if it's worth knowing, the emperor (or The State in modern times) would already know it
Makes sense.
>>46699229
It's a bit out of date (and The Thick Of It would probably help for post-Blairite understanding, in the UK at least), but it certainly has a way of getting to the point alongside the entertainment
>>46698960
You can't abolish the state and keep property.
>>46699347
INORITE? Ancaps will argue that property existed before the concept of a nation-state did, but that's ignoring the ability to enforce ownership. Let me see if I can do the concept of private property without rule of law or monopoly of force.
So, arguably everything you can lay hands on at the magical transition point where you segue from some lesser state to anarcho-capitalism is owned by you. Assuming strict adherence to the NAP, if anyone were to attempt to claim property you regard as yours, you would voluntarily enter into mutual binding arbitration and abide by the outcome. If one party didn't want to play ball, the remedy is to use their mutual associations as pressure groups to achieve the outcome you seek. But somehow this won't lead to power blocs or insular groups doing whatever the fuck they please, because MAGI- I mean PERFECT CAPITALISM!
>>46699558
They'll respond that each and every individual is technically their own state, responsible for protecting their own property, and are free to make deals and treaties with others as they wilt as a sort of microcosm of the international stage.
Of course, this ignores the fact that the international stage is already anarchistic in nature, and that the EU, UN, and so forth are wholly ineffective at preserving order amongst their constituents since they are ultimately voluntary and have no teeth, owing to them not actually being real super-states.
>>46696878
>Read the Sagas of Icelanders
Can I read the Northlanders version?
>>46697169
>In something recognizably modern, you're looking at corporations (or guilds) who control the land and work together only for profit, but mostly fight each other(fiscally).
Lazarus?
>>46698458
>你是中国的
>中国强大
这家伙 -_-
>>46696292
Fallout 4
>>46696292
What would an anarcho-syndicalist fantasy setting look like, /tg/?
>>46698960
Would pirate cities fall under this blanket?
>>46700561
Don't make me go back and try and get kaiserreich working again.
Please.
>>46700561
Ravnica? In a dysfunctional form, at least.
>>46700631
Do it for Willy.
>>46700849
But he was a dick.
If you do it for anyone, do it for Bismark
>>46697845
>mercenary company
>not complete assholes
Anon think before you type.
>>46700561
The Dispossessed with Wizards
>>46697973
And this brings us to that oh so important factor of the state: hating someone for being different. All the extorting mercenary companies can gang up one night, and murder the band that tries to repulse them. Then hang their mangled bodies in the square as a lesson to any of their abused merchant-slaves as to what will happen if they stop paying and oh hey look I just turned anarcho-capitalism into a simple warlord state run by bandits.
>>46700631
Oh man, I used to work on that mod. Haven't thought about that in a while...
Dragons own the means of production and sit on vast hoards of gold. The workers give all they have to their corporate overlords, and thank them for the generous service of not eating them.
Also there are no roads.
>>46696292
I'm not even sure how it's theoretically possible for a society to be both anarchistic and capitalistic at the same time.
>>46700561
Medieval Star Trek with guilds instead of Starfleet?
But that might be boring so if you wanted conflict in your setting maybe the guilds are in conflict with each other for some reason.
In such a setting the ancaps would support a mutually agreed upon private legal system that arbitrates violation of property and contract law, which would be ignored by the other factions and effectively act as a government for that faction.
The syndies would have a trade union center that the other factions in turn would ignore.
The individual anarchists might have some kind of voluntary self-defense militia with democratically elected leaders.
>>46696292
Like Omega from Mass Effect.
Of course if you count the mob like a sort of state that would make it no longer AN-cap, well... it's probably not posible. Capitalism relies on enforcement of rule of law, and this can only be done id the top dog decides to enforce the rules for everyone.
>>46696482
Nothing edgy about it, it's just as likely as the endgame of Communism. And aggression doesn't have to be guys beating up on each other. Corporations do that a lot.
>>46696292
i have no idea what i'm doin'
blah blah blah polycentric law
>>46705389
>Don' stomp on me
>>46696292
> What would an anarcho-capitalist fantasy setting look like, /tg/?
1) Imagine feudal world.
2) Change land ownership to factory ownership.
Engineer-knights swearing fealty to the CEOs, factory slaveworkers, small city-states ruled by trade unions, church that worships coming singularity.
3) Add fantasy.
Dragon shareholders, monasteries of undead monks, holy order of bridge trolls, stock exchange run by prophets.
>>46697267
> both types
Get real. One of those types will live and die as first level Expert.
>>46698110
> How does this work?
Co-ops.
I'd like to be more specific, but each state has its own legal definition of such thing. Well, US doesn't have any, IIRC.
>>46706472
>>>trade unions
You don't know what anarcho-capitalism is, do you?
>>46706521
Would you prefer "guilds" instead?
>>46706527
Organized labour is the antithesis of anarcho-capitalism, in all forms
>>46706538
It's not like you can prevent people from banding together and cooperating.
>>46706585
This is true. But it is not what anarcho-capitalism is
>>46706611
No anarcho-capitalist has any problem with people voluntarily cooperating.
It'd look like trash.
What would a mutualist society look like?Also, I'm still fucking confused as to whether or not mutualism is economically left or right. Creators say it's left, but it's often placed on the center right side for the political compass charts.
>>46706659
Anarcho-capitalism, no.
Anarcho-capitalists might though.
Only highly specialized, hard to replace workers would be able to unionize.
>>46706472
See, this is interesting. Why don't we talk about this.
>>46696292
Dunno. Gilded Age Wild West with dragons and shit? Doesn't sound very exciting.
>>46698776
>Capitalism depends on the state to enforce a system of private property.
Wrong. PMCs and PSFs can do the job even better than the government and the free market would ensure that competition both prevented one or two of them from essentially becoming a government, and make your protection better, cheaper and faster.
>>46707897
>Anarcho-capitalists might though.
As an Ancap myself I can say that I nor any other ancap I have ever met is against that. We ancaps aren't horrible people who only care about money, we simply don't believe that the government needs to exist, as everything that it does can be done better by the free market
>>46711186
ever notice how you can replace "the free market" with "magic" in everything an ancap ever says?
>>46711186
>>46711266
>muh free market is perfect
>muh [nature] is perfect
>muh [magic] is perfect
kek
>>46698110
Workplace Democracy, look up the Mondragon Corporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
Election of supervisors, managers, CEO, and major company policy.
Instead of "taxes", the local lord calls it "rent"
>>46711186
>>46711266
Wow some ancaps finally showed up! Guys listen your not going to convince any one here, this whole thread has been people misrepresenting ancap beliefs and ideas the calling them stupid. The amount of stupid trite in this thread is unbelievable and not worth saving in the least.
But in line with the topic which i find very interesting, what would an ancap setting look like. What are the conflicts the party adventures to correct. What do these partys look and act like.
Im intrested in what ancaps actually think on this topic, not what all these sad marxist and statist have to spew to derail a good topic.
>>46707316
Political compass charts are shit, don't listen to them.
It's the OG form of anarchism. No government, society ran by co-ops. Market ran by the community.
>>46707316
political compasses are completely useless.
an idiology is completely different from an alignment
there are different types of communists, capitalists, anarchists, etc. each with a different set of ideals, and not all of them can be easily described as left or right.
>>46707316
literally every form of government is mutualist, human nature is mutualist,
in fact its so ingrained that it is one of the deadly sins to be greedy.
>>46711524
thats anarcho-syndicalism
>>46711323
Not an argument :^)
>>46711500
>Guys listen your not going to convince any one here, this whole thread has been people misrepresenting ancap beliefs and ideas the calling them stupid.
Oh I know.
>what would an ancap setting look like.
What do yiu mean when you say look? If we're talking aesthetics, then it could look like whatever you want.
If were talking stuff like police forces, armies, roads, all the stuff the government does now, then it would all be done by private companies. PMCs and PSFs replace law enforcement, roads would either be run by charities, be free to drive on and have a ton of advertising, or be toll roads.
>What are the conflicts the party adventures to correct.
Depends. You have most of your usual stuff, except anything that involves a government, though you would also have alot of new possibilities. Perhaps the party works for a private company watchdog group, who investigate companies so that customers of the watchdog group can make informed purchaes, and during a routine investigation of a PMC they discover that a group of companies are collaborating to form a new government and must be stopped.
They could be workers for a PSF and then get incolved in whatever plot hook you want.
Or they could be part of a PMC hired to explore and lay the groundwork on a new planet for the real estate comapny that hired their PMC, only to have the job go horribly wrong and end up stranded on the planet, trying to survive and complete the job.
Or there part of an arbitration group hired to settle land disputes and have to work to ensure the two parties don't turm violent against each other, all the while investigating and trying to figure out the solution to the dispute.
There are more possibilities but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
>What do these partys look and act like.
Depends
>>46711344
>anything I don't understand is magic
>>46712593
Hey thanks for the ideas, not sure why i didnt think of half of those myself. Particularly the space frontier example.
What about in a war against a state or extraterrestrial race? Im intrested in your take here.
>>46713043
>anarcho-capitalists don't understand the free market
you got that right
>>46711344
>muh [government] is perfect
>muh [workers in charge of the means of production] are perfect
>muh [god] is perfect
>muh [king] is perfect
>muh [insert literally anything which a government system depends on here] is perfect
See I can handwave stuff too!
>>46713043
>trust me guys, we can put our absolute fate in this human system
>it's perfect, trust me
>>46713225
But I never said that the [government] is perfect, only that it is useful and necessary in some capacity.
>>46696292
A lot like pic-related.
>>46713050
>What about in a war against a state or extraterrestrial race?
Well, for the most part those probably wouldnt happen that much. After all, how often do states invade or declare war on near anarchy places like somolia, except when the people from those places attacked the state first? Most nations, except for those still stuck in the imperialist era who would gladly wage war and conquer anything they could (like china and russia), have better things to do than invading governmentless places, because the lack of a nation significantly deacreases how much a nation can threaten you.
As for aliens, that really depends on alot of factors. If they are sentients and sapient, then I would think the NAP doesn't apply to them, so agressing them (through war or hunting or anything of the sort) and taking "their property" would be fair game. If they were sentient and sapient, then I guess it depends on how you interpret the NAP.
If either the state or aliens were the aggressor though, then you can bet people would fight back, both by paying PMCs and PSFs and by doing the fighting themselves if need be.
>>46713382
And nobody ever said the free market was perfect, simply that the free market was perfect, just that it can do the job better than the government can while also not requiring the surrender of many freedoms.
>>46711706
There isn't a market in Anarcho-Syndicalism.
>>46698041
>Killing someone and robbing their whole home would pursue my own economic interests. But I won't do it because I'm not an asshole.
Then you are an idiot that would be outcompeted by those that do.
>>46713225
Except no one believes those are perfect(except God, philosophically speaking. Church reform pressure groups still exist, though). So we made regulations and limitations to prevent those from fucking up too much.
An-caps have no such fail-safes(except the free market, but that can be subverted with some tricks)
>>46714228
>Except no one believes those are
And nobody believes the free market is perfect, simply that it is the best option
>>46713786
The freemarket does a different job than the government, which has its own jobs. When the two can synthesize properly, there is more prosperity and progress than just one or the other.
>muh freedoms
lol ok kid.Also the free market only cares about the present and near future, assuming that every agent is a perfectly rational , self interested individual. You may not care about the future ten, twenty generations from now, but I do.
>>46714577
It's the best option (for the most part) when supported and protected by the state that stays out of it (for the most part) except in areas such as natural monopolies / things we think ought to be natural monopolies (water, power, muh roads, infrastructure in general, data, etc) in the interest of national prosperity and services that ought be due to every citizen.
>>see thread
>>might have interesting discussion
>>full of condescending arseholes and strawmen
Another day, perhaps.
>>46711186
Wouldn't the best PMC just use it's superior force to become the state?
>>46719013
>see post
>might have had interesting discussion
>instead it's an assblasted anarkiddo
Another day, perhaps
>>46719013
This thread would be 4 times shorter if ancap kids read any history books instead of jerking to economic fairytales
>>46698176
>Read Marx
Nah, I'd rather not take economic advice from someone whose personal finances were an utter clusterfuck just because he claims to have solved all of human history.
>>46721748
Well, putting an ad hominem to the person of Marx doesn't makes he less correct.
But you should read him nonetheless, to actually know what you are criticizing about.
>>46696292
Rouge trader?
Traveler?
Every rifts game where some one learns the create scroll spell.
>>46698176
>implying hierarchy is bad
>implying democracy is good
>>46696343
This is the best answer.
>>46696391
Levels only exist as an abstract game construct to facilitate the players' story. In in-world terms, they don't exist. In terms of mechanics, most NPCs are statted with a set level, which never increases. A king might be level 4, and never increase beyond that for his whole life.
>>46720603
You've just made my point, but I'm not an anarchist
>>46720802
Again, made my point
Don't mind me Commies and Randroids, I'm just here to watch you both fight while I sit in this well maintained park bench.
>>46722637
Rogue Trader has Imperium (central authority that handles stuff). So does Traveller.
>>46727135
I don't think there is a single Commie arguing in this thread. I.e. there might be some Commies, but they don't actually argue.
I'm Commie and this (>>46706472) was my post.
>>46727089
Whatever helps you sleep at you
>>46722477
No, being wrong on every single account regarding every possible issue is what makes him less correct. Dialectical materialism made a number of predictions, and they were all wrong. They will continue to be wrong. It's the worst historiographical theory ever. Marx's intended social ends are the worst intended social ends ever. Marx's justification for anything he says is garbage, every single time. His misuse of Hegel is disgusting. His materialism is stupid. His reductionist, shitty, wrong piece of fucking shit book is the single worst thing for mankind to have been written since the quran. and is ultimately responsible for millions upon millions of deaths.
If I could go back in time and shoot one person, it'd be Marx. There are political "philosophers" who have been shittier and more incorrect, like Ayn Rand, but none who was both so shitty and so influential.
>>46720354
It would have to gain a very large natural monopoly to do that, but such monoplies can not be sustained without a state.
As long as the PMC has competition, and it will always have competition, then it would be impossible for that to occur. Not to mention that a PMC has the goal of making a profit and a state does not, so you have a conflict of interests as well.
>>46720802
Not an argument.
>>46728999
Arguing with ancaps is fucking pointless, though. Niether of them actually go outside or do anything. It's more a game of pretend for mediocre IT deskjockeys with delusions of grandeur and no friends than a real political ideology. Even the tragically failed abortions that inhabit /pol/ will sometimes go out and do SOMETHING for the master race (typically stupid bullshit, but still something).
Ancaps don't do anything. Ancaps don't know anything. What's the point in arguing with them?
>>46696292
Florida, probably.
>>46696292
any setting. Our world is what happens if there is anarcho capitalism but not the non-violence that anarcho-acpitalists say is a component of it.
From there, the extreme freedom of everybody lead to people doing stuff based on their freedom and agreeing on having different systems (and coercing others to, as there is no non-violence). So even a communist setting is an anarcho-capitalist setting + time.
>>46700958
but he was also also a dick.
A smarter one than Willy of course.
>>46729515
No shit. Thats the point. Its a juvenile power fantasy. They are imagining themselves as these powerful nietzcheian übermench captains of industry, unhindered by laws or morality backflipping into their ferrari cabrios filled with waifus when IRL they are flipping burgers at mcdonalds and blame society.
>>46731523
>when IRL they are flipping burgers at mcdonalds and blame society.
Nah m8, that's commies.
Ancaps are just extremist libertarians.
>>46730650
Wait, hol up, are you saying that anarchy is merely the state of nature?
Whoda thunkit.
>>46732690
Libertarians are just ancaps who aren't honest with themselves, and who like the police when it serves their direct interests.
>>46696292
Shitti(er) roads
Everyone is somekind of neutral alignment.
The damn goblins still seem to run everything.
>>46727083
This.
>>46727640
>and is ultimately responsible for millions upon millions of deaths.
Pretty sure that was the people who actually starved and murdered the people. That's like blaming the gun manufacturer after a shooting.
>>46732690
>ancap
>I'm a born winner, society is holding me down. we should break down society so I could take whats rightfully mine!
>commie
>I'm born equal, society is holding us down, we should break down society so we could take whats rightfully ours
>>46727089
Was your point that you're a cuck? Because if so then yes, I made your point pretty clearly ;^)
>>46730586
Seconding.
It is a magical place.
>>46733568
>sucking this hard at comebacks
Bantz better.
>>46733568
>delicious bait
>>46727135
>Georgists
>Relevant
>>46727640
Dude, your post almost sounds like you've been hurt by Karl Marx himself, recently.
Also,
>is ultimately responsible for millions upon millions of deaths
kek
>>46732965
>2016
>straw-manning arguments
>>46735039
You dont have to strawman them, thast literally what they say.
>take other peoples shit and give it to me because I deserve it
>>46696292
>>46727640
You fucking asked about how Socialism works. Marx made it. Read marx. you don't have to agree with him. I don't. But if you want to know how it works, read the Communist Manifesto, where Socialism is basically - 1, workers seize the means of production, 2, workers unite and organize and control, 3, the Communist state emerges after a period of Socialism. It's the form of Socialism that influenced the world, it's from what Social Democracy, Maoism, Stalinism, Leninism, Anarchism in all forms, and whatever stem from. What other answer do you want? The other socialists of the early industrial age didn't make their mark; save a few in the Anarchist family. The only way to know about Socialism is to read the book that made it. Simple. It's like saying, 'the bible isn't correct scientifically, historically, or whatever, but I wanna know more about it', someone says, 'read it', and you refuse to do so - you're only hurting yourself by ignoring it.
>>46735249
hehe
>>46696292
Capitalism is the movement of goods and services through men who have the means to support that movement and get rich off it. Even in a Social Democratic state, people will suffer under Capitalism, just like the minority will be fucked in a Democracy; but the alternatives are worse. Free market = EVERYONE gets fucked save the very few. Anarchism = Everyone gets fucked to the next band of bandits that's stronger than their victims. Socialism = The workers are upsurped by big men. Communism = needs Socialism to actually work, never realized, would probably fall to some group in the system controlling everything. Etc, etc.
In the end, we are hierachal. There WILL be coercion. The best we can do, so far, is to legitimize force; keep order, and play around with the settings for a balance of growth, prosperity, and as little fucked-upness as possible. Social Democracy, Mixed Economy Capitalism, and I guess, Western Liberalism will form a Hegemony, and no other assortment of systems offers a reward so good with so little in pain. Now, maybe something big might happen, maybe some new fangled tech might even the odds across all strata - but I doubt it. As long as there is a scarcity, as long as there is someone who pines to be above someone else, this is what we're stuck with. Bon apetit
You know, considering there is no government, there wouldn't be any difference between an anarcho-capitalist and an anarcho-syndicalist society.
>>46735588
or warlordism
