Hi all, I wanted to see if anyone else thought the lore of 40K was a bit over the top. I know it should not be viewed as hard sci-fi by any stretch... however, some of the fantasy elements seem to be played up to a ludicrous extent.
Some proposed changes could be:
-Reduction in average pauldron size
-Reducing the extent to which Orks can bend reality with their psychic gestalt (no more making a piece of steel turn into a gun by belief)
-Making the Imperium understand their technology more (fixing machines with prayer is retarded)
-Make the realm of chaos feel a little more distant and unknown... right now it feels like any emo chick can swear loyalty to nurgle out of depression and open a portal to chaos. I want the realm of chaos to be more difficult to access, more difficult to perceive, and for breaches into the material realm to be much more rare. One of the best ways to ruin horror/tension is to make the exact nature of the enemy known - just look at the Matrix series... the first movie was amazing when the enemy was mostly unknown and unfathomable, but along come the later movies where all the cards are on the table, and it sucks ass.
-Fights between primarchs and other individuals of demi-god status can stop lasting for days at a time - this is just stupid fanwanking. There is no good reason why two powerful individuals fighting should take more than 5 minutes.
These are a few of the things that bug me. Has anyone else thought about this, and considered what 40K might look like if it moved a bit more towards the sci-fi end of the spectrum?
Fuck off
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/45790532/#45790532
>>46555736
Move along citizen, this is pasta bait.
There has to be at least 1 other person on this board who isn't a triggered spergmaster. I'm not smart enough to be the only person who things 40K has crossed the line from grimdark to grimderp in the last decade.
>>46556019
>muh realism
>I'm not smart enough
Obviously. Blaming the background for "stupid fanwank" is quantum stupid.
"40k" doesn't cross any lines, certain shit-tier authors and caricaturists do. Smart people just ignore the former and laugh-off the refrigerator art. Finally, the milieu is not Sci-Fi, it's explicitly Space Fantasy. So, if Space Magic "bugs" you, just fuck off. You'll stop bigging and you won't be missed.
Win/win.
>>46555736
>Reducing the extent to which Orks can bend reality with their psychic gestalt (no more making a piece of steel turn into a gun by belief)
That's how it already works, or was meant to. It turns unsafe weapons and machinery into ones that don't blow up on the first shot or catch fire spontaneously.
It's the psychic equivalent of the irish man's screwdriver, give it a knock or some tape and it'll be fine
Then the internet got it and the meme began
>>46555736
>Pauldron reduction
Yeah, ok. Your pic's pauldrons aren't the worst. They should still be big tho.
>Primarch fights
Go back to Index Astartes fluff on the Heresy. Ignore the HH books. The Heresy is a vague time period, and accounts of it are contradictory.
>Understand tech more
No. It's a con-game run by the Tech Priests to maintain their monopoly, and the Imperium is also very animist. They can repair and maintain things like guns, cars, and tanks, but anything going up the chain to stuff like plasma generators or whatever is firmly in the grip of the Martian Priesthood. And remember, animist. There are soldiers in Africa today who inscribe runes and weird shit onto their AKs to bring them good luck and ensure they don't jam up. The Imperium is like that.
>Chaos less knowable
Sure, maybe. I hate the new fluff about only the big 4 having Daemon Princes and such, and I think it takes work and luck to have a successful chaos cult. Other hand, it should still be a credible enough threat that merits the attention of big guns like the Inquisition.
Your ideas don't bug me much, anon. 40k is at its best when you customize it. Go nuts! Have fun!
>>46555736
we already had this thread, the result was that you'z a git
>>46560539
There will be more.
>>46555736
Your mammy called, she says you's a bitch and everybody knows it
>>46555736
This shit again?
obvious copypasta
fuck off
>>46555736
>>46555736
for the 40000th time you dont understand, a boltgun might be in 100 percent repair and jam when someone who isnt its owner tries to use it
FIXING SHIT WITH PRAYER ISNT STUPID BECAUSE THE MACHINES LITERALLY ACTUALLY DO HAVE MACHINE SPIRITS THAT NEED PRAYED TO IF THEY ARE TO WORK.
look up "machine spirit"
>>46555736
>>46555736
>might look like if it moved a bit more towards the sci-fi end of the spectrum?
Fuck right off. Is 40k ridiculous? Yeah. Are wolfwolfwolf too much? Sure, for my taste. But "realism" doesn't work because realism is at once more boring and far, far more ridiculous than anything in 40k.
If you're an interplanetary empire that is capable of FTL tech, why would you bother ground-slogging troops? If an enemy has a position on a planet, throw asteroids at it at, say, 0.3c, causing it to be uninhabitable for a few centuries, and then come back. If it's really bad, then continue throwing asteroids at it ad infinitum.
Just in a galaxy you have more than enough materials for any average species turnover rate to sustain.
The idea of fixing machines by prayer is a direct analogue of intepretations of how the world worked circa 16th century European peasantry.
>>46559334
>There are soldiers in Africa today who inscribe runes and weird shit onto their AKs to bring them good luck and ensure they don't jam up. The Imperium is like that.
Just, in the Imperium, it works sometimes.
>>46561906
>implying asteroids are cost effective
Admittedly this only covers asteroids vs orbital weapons, not asteroids vs ground troops, but honestly what's the point in purging xenos scum without them seeing and knowing the glory of the Emperors troops trample on their necks, deafen them with chainsword flurry and drown them in las?
>>46555736
Part of the problem is that it started as a silly over the top 80s funfest and then they tried to make it supr srs bsns so the fun elements that are left behind now seem out of place and dumb, and the serious bits now seem too grimderp in relation.
![tumblr_inline_noifcw6jWV1rf5b85_500[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/MEtJ3m6.gif "tumblr_inline_noifcw6jWV1rf5b85_500[1].gif")
>>46555736
>Hi all, I wanted to see if anyone else thought the lore of 40K was a bit over the top
>>46561841
Machine spirit shit is dumb. I liked it before when it was just superstition for natural occurrences. Things like not honoring your Las gun with ritual cleaning, increasing the likelihood of it misfiring.
Now that gw has added more stuff making machine spirits literal things, it's annoying.
>>46561805
>khornate with a rapid fire weapon
this image itself is b8
>>46564355
Looks more like a shotgun to me...
>>46555736
If it isn't over the top, it isn't 40k. You're looking for a different setting altogether. Not to mention that things like the "days-long battles between demigod primarchs" are half-remembered myths and legends, and in-universe propaganda. We're talking about a setting where faster-than-light travel is handled by not going through the universe, and taking a shortcut through hell. We're talking about a setting where sorcery is a dangerous new scientific frontier, and technology is an ancient dogmatic religion. We're talking about a setting that only exists to provide a reason for there to be only war. War between Superhumans, aliens, robot zombies, and demons. There's other settings for "realism", and 40k ain't one of them. It's not supposed to be. Period.
>>46564191
I agree, if they were to just have the imperials superstitiously praying to machines I could see that, but to have actual machine spirits is full retardation.
>>46559214
This.
>>46564436
/thread
There are much better sci-fi settings for the semi-plausible tone. The best I would say is the original Mass Effect 1 universe before the sequels made it retarded. It feels very expansive like 40k and the developers did a great job world building to make all the technology feel consistent (i.e. No crazy world breaking deus ex machina device that is used once and never exploited again.)
>>46561841
>>46562085
>>46564191
>>46564676
You really don't have to have it be one way or another, real machine spirits or superstition. Generally speaking when we hear about very active, powerful machine spirits it's for things like a landraider or a titan, not a lasgun or a bolter. Sure, someone in-universe might say "you know, cleaning our lasguns works just as well WITHOUT the chanting and prostration, so are we sure machine spirits are a thing?" From that point, all a techpriest need do to "prove" him wrong (before shoving a mechadendrite up his ass for HERESY) would be to point out the very real, tangible machine spirits that do exist. Titan princeps die from getting their own minds eaten by their titans more than they actually die in battle. Land Raiders will often fire their own weapons, or in the famous case of Rynn's Might, continue fighting long after their crews are dead. Machine spirits in advanced machines could simply be very advanced artificial intelligence that has a bit of a psychic presence. Humans are a psychic species, so who's to say that a little bit of psychic energy can't rub off on the AI of a revered war machine?
Just a thought.
>>46564676
Machine spirits are just primitive AI subroutines that use organic processors. AIs are necessary and they aren't allowed to real use AI so they have machine spirits.
Even things like simple non-AI automated subroutines are called machine spirits though.
bump:^)
>>46555736
>Reducing the extent to which Orks can bend reality with their psychic gestalt (no more making a piece of steel turn into a gun by belief)
They haven't done anything like this for a LONG time, people blow it way outta proportion
>>46555736
>>46555736
>Expecting 40k to be realistic
You're asking too much anon. Its harmless fun.
If you want realism play historical wargames, where the "fluff" isn't written by 50 different people
>>46555736
You sir are the worst human to have ever been born. I have ordered an exterminates on your location.
Glory to the Emperor!
>>46565277
you underestimate the fanatical belief in the emperor that most citizens have. Chanting has worked for 1000s of years, why stop now?
>>46568797
fucking autocorrect
>>46568825
Turn it off
>>46559214
I prefer to think that it CAN, but in practice, does not necessarily occur even half the time, or even close to that.
Maybe if there are a lot of Wyrdboyz around actively influencing things, or for particularly impressive Orks who do it without realizing it/benefit from the "hype" generated by the Boyz who alternately hate and hero worship them.
Like, not all Orks are necessarily as badass as the descriptions of how potentially badass Nobz and Warbosses can be. The description applies to Orks, but not all Orks.
So there are definitely situations where the lubrication can happen, or "important" Orks literally have character shielding because of "Da Powa of Beleef", but it's not ALL the time.
>>46565277
We know bolters have sentient machine spirits from the black templar comics.
