What went wrong?
They dug too greedily and too deep.
>>46542246
Making 40k anything other than a parody.
Dropping WHFB for AoS.
Letting people keep more than a certain amount of money as their take-home pay instead of focusing their profits on the company.
>>46542258
Currently waiting for them to get deep enough to let out the Balrog.
>>46542246
They prioritized quick gains in the short term but fucked themselves in the ass long-term.
Warhammer should never have become a mass combat system, it should have staid at a lower model count with crazy heroes and magic hijinks instead of turning into a game that nobody can afford to get into because you need 10 boxes and 5 blisters to put an army on the table.
They got rid of specialist games basically because they were shit at organization and made a bunch of mistakes and needed to cut costs fast.
They chained themselves to the most retarded rules release model ever with their cycle of army book/codex releases, which resulted in core rules that could not be significantly changed between editions.
They neglected creating a solid formula for army design so an army can be shitty or amazing depending on who wrote the book.
What they should have done is focus more on skirmish rules sets and things like that. Warhammer fantasy would have been amazing with a rules set more like the LotR game with a couple of dozen minis per side, they should have revamped the rules and turned it into a game people can actually collect and play in a reasonable amount of time instead of the money eating monster it became, they didn't have to scrap the entire setting which was one of the strengths of the IP and turn it into World of Warhammer.
>>46542246
In one breath they say 20% of GW customers actually play the game, the rest just collect models. In the next breath they say they've never conducted market research. And we're just supposed to think the 20 space marine armies + video games came out of no where.
>>46542246
Basically everything.
The lack of competition is the only thing that has kept them alive.
>>46542279
And they'll sell it to you for $800.
Never take your company public unless you want to see it become a zombie of its former self.
>>46542554
/thread
There once was a man named Kirby.
He wasn't satisfied with his position at the company, so he took out a fuckhueg loan to buy it from the guy running it at the time. The loan had to be fuckhueg, because the guy running it was basically real life Cave Johnson and mostly doing it for the hell of it.
So now Kirby had the company, but also a fuckhueg debt. And the company had to pay for this debt, literally.
And now WHFB is dead and we are here.
The end.
>>46542665
As much as /tg/ hates on kickstarter (hurhurrkikestarter) it's at least a realistic option for a small business or garage operation to get the funds to make a game or put out a new line of products without having an investor looking over their shoulder and fucking things up all the time.
>>46542372
This guy nailed it.
Warhammer 40k should have remained a skirmish-level game akin to Warmahordes.
>>46542246
LONG AGO IN A DISTANT LAND, I, AKU, THE SHAPE-SHIFTING MASTER OF DARKNESS, UNLEASHED AN UNSPEAKABLE EVIL!
Did they really do anything wrong though ? (outside of some game design mistakes) One game has to be the most expensive premium experience. Maybe GW read the writing on the wall that miniature gaming wasn't going to be or return to a wide market demand.
I mean take WoW, I think Blizzard went full cash grab with it so I don't play. But guess who plays ? My friend with a wife and a 6 figure salary and doesn't have to worry about value the same as I do.
>>46543184
so she logs in, does her garrison missions and then logs out?
>>46542275
Honestly I think that AoS isn't necessarily shit in and of itself, just that they dropped WFHB for this entirely different system. I honestly kinda dug 6th edition and how it had this big rulebook that wasn't necessarily all that approachable. Not everybody wants that kind of dead simplicity. That said though, I haven't really been involved with WHFB or 40k since 6th ed WHFB.
Seems like in general they recognized themselves as a miniatures making company, and streamlined everything to make for selling miniatures at a high profit margin, to the point where even the rules are just a method of pandering the models now. Which eventually forced out an older fanbase in favor of newer kids and such, who are more into video games anyways. Now they've just dug themselves into a hole.
>>46543184
But the only thing that's premium about GW games are the miniatures.
The rules, the game are what motivates people to buy more than a handful of miniature, in fact warhammer specifically started as game meant to make nerds buy more fantasy minis than GW could sell them just for role-playing.
Then they started cranking up the target number of miniatures for an army by making a rules set that emphasized combat resolution through rank bonus and stuff like that, and the size of a "normal" game of warhammer grew in model count like crazy.
This resulted in a huge drop in new players, and the game couldn't survive just on selling more stuff to the same people any more, because nobody was starting to play it any more. It was ridiculous.
>Oh boy, I want to play warhammer, I'm gonna play these cool elves!
Okay, awesome, you can start with these two boxes and this blister.
>Okay, and that's my starter army?
No, that's your first unit of spearmen.
>...right. And how many units would an entire army be?
Oh, you know, maybe five, and some warmachine or monster.
>...Do I need that many miniatures for 40k?
Nope.
>Alrighty then, space marines it is.
This has nothing to do with "one game has to be the most expensive" it's purely poor planning by GW and an example of hurting your long term by trying to cash in more on the existing player base by unintentionally making the game impossible for new players to get into.
>>46542386
>In one breath they say 20% of GW customers actually play the game, the rest just collect models. In the next breath they say they've never conducted market research.
This! And the worst offender was Kirby himself at the top of the org chart with his foolish belief that the customers were effectively slaves addicted to GW's products when lack of alternatives was the true main selling point for years.
>>46542372
>They chained themselves to the most retarded rules release model ever with their cycle of army book/codex releases...
This wasn't accidental. GW knew that both individual model sales and army sales were/are driven by how effective / appealing the model / army was to play on the table top.
>They neglected creating a solid formula for army design so an army can be shitty or amazing depending on who wrote the book.
This is what truly shot their release formula in the foot (repeatedly). They had some truly crap-tacular codex writers like Gav Thorpe, Mat Ward, and Cruddace. GW was driven by the misguided notion that people would simply abandon one army for the next new thing. If they had written decently balanced rules and allowed old and new models to have value in an army list people would have collected *everything* for their favorite army. Instead models were added and abandon from one edition to the next - or panned repeatedly in some cases. (Biovores / Pyrovores anyone?)
GW to damn clueless to understand that balanced rules = lots of fun games = more model and army sales.
>>46543318
It was kind of the other way around.
Warhammer started as a way to sell more miniatures at a high profit to kids.
Then they made rules that made the game impossible for kids to get into because it was too big of an investment, and profits dropped like a rock, to the point where warhammer earned them less money than hobby supplies in some stores despite taking up as much shelf space as 40k.
>>46542246
The decided to "be a model company, not a game company" without realizing the "model company" is a niche market already dominated by their forge world line and thus spent years trying to remove the Games, from Games Workshop, when that was their biggest demographic.
>>46543456
>This wasn't accidental. GW knew that both individual model sales and army sales were/are driven by how effective / appealing the model / army was to play on the table top.
It might have been intentional, but it was still a mistake since they were starting to get competition from games that didn't compete by having better minis, but by having better rules.
>>46543067
Zone Mortalis and Kill Team will let you play that for now.
Either GW will realise BIGGER ARMIES BIGGER MODELS BIGGER PRICES is killing 40k just like it killed Fantasy or the whole thing will collapse.
>>46543184
Miniature wargaming has been consistently growing while GW sales have been decreasing for years. This is a problem with them, not gaming.
>>46543423
>This has nothing to do with "one game has to be the most expensive" it's purely poor planning by GW and an example of hurting your long term
whats your proof that they are doing bad ? last time i checked GW is still in business, still #1 in miniature gaming, and are taking in very good profits.
>>46542372
As much as people make the WoW comparison, at least Warcraft has -some- grounded factions and actual citizens to protect. Warcraft may be suffering from terminal spectacle creep, but it's nothing compared to some of the recent map leaks from the new AoS book, Godbeasts. Apparently, in Age, acid oceans, upside down dimensions, chained suns, and "unreachable" floating mountains all exist within a few miles of one another, and that was only ONE of the leaked maps.
>>46543461
WHFB was 35% of revenue during Chapterhouse. It was killed entirely because GW was too stupid to understand why 8th reduced sales so much.
And when you think about it GW is astonishingly stupid. They gave up effective monopolies in half a dozen wargaming genres which allowed numerous competitors to spring up and become successful. Once people realise other games are both more balanced and better value for money they rarely come back. Especially when you can play 2-4 other wargames for the price of playing 40k or WHFB.
>>46543184
The revenue being largely flat/sinking slowly even though they are jacking up the prices and have pulled pretty much every ace in the hole they have except the Plastik Thunderhawk and Plastik Primarchs. This suggests that their sales are falling.
Falling sales are the worst thing that can happen to a Wargame, since you need at least two players to play a game. What gave 40k and WHFB its power was the widely spread playerbase, take that away and the game withers away against its competition (see: WHFB)
This is also why GW convinced itself of the "collectors" narrative. Collectors don't need a community to buy, hence why they are absolutely fine.
I seem to remember that somebody (Cavatore? Jervis?) once said that the Primarchs are their biggest ace in the hole, their silver bullet, since they knew that people would buy them like crazy. If they ever showed up, it would be a sign of dire times for Games Workshop.
>>46543558
falling sales doesn't mean anything. what actually matters is the margins on the products you are selling.
>>46543537
They are freezing staff pay, cutting expenses as much as they can and are STIILL not increasing profit.
Also X-wing is now #1. AoS was such a disaster than it even scared off 40k players.
It became a corporation managed by a board of directors and accountants, many of whom have never actually played a tabletop game. Nobody should be surprised that theyre just slowly coasting to a halt.
>>46543537
They're the biggest company but they wasted a lot of potential and had to make a lot of cuts to stay afloat, have you been living under a rock?
GW stores are manned by 1 person these days, tons of them have closed down, they scrapped one of their major games because it wasn't making any money, and they've had fairly shitty financial reports for ages.
They ARE doing well, it's more that they would be doing amazingly if they didn't constantly shoot themselves in the foot.
They can survive on being the most well known brand for ages, but that doesn't mean that they're well managed or that they couldn't do better.
>>46543596
Falling sales are a huge deal for a wargame.
People aren't going to buy your shit if there's nobody to play with.
Sure, there are people that go 100% second hand or continue playing without ever buying anything, but most either stop alltogether, or pick up another game.
>>46543596
Yes, until you focus so much on the margin that you end up losing customers to competitors.
They can't keep cutting costs, freezing pay, discontinuing games and closing stores forever and just act like the margin is the only thing that's relevant.
>>46542246
honestly, a lot has been going right lately
>>46543611
>>46543619
>>46543660
lmao butthurt poorfags. look who is running a successful business, not you guys:
http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2015-16-Press-Statement.pdf
If GW starts to lower their prices and keeps putting out a steady flow of AoS stuff the system will pick up. But if they keep pumping out Stormcast who are per figure the most expensive dudes in the whole range the system is dead in the water.
GW is going to start running into the Allee effect pretty damn hard.
The fewer people buy/play the fewer people keep playing/start playing because its hard to find games.
The biggest thing GW had going for it was its omnipresence. With stores closing and lots of LGS's becoming increasingly fed up with GW they are losing their grip on the market and without that they are fucked.
A strong IP will not save them from people being exposed to dozens of games that are both cheaper and better made.
>>46543697
It still has the fact its one of the worst games widely available going against it. Its also completely unsuitable for casual LGS play. Not to mention that when you rely on veterans to get new players and the veterans despise your new game you have problems.
>>46543596
Not in a game that needs a community to be appealing you dingus.
Wargames are like MMOS. When the player base starts dropping and the company starts doing more and more cash grabs, the players get scared off and start looking into alternatives.
They can call themselves a miniatures company as much as they like, they are still putting out games systems to promote buying their miniatures, unlike companies such as Andrea, Pegaso or Hasslefree.
GW was the big dick in 28mm formation fantasy wargaming, 28mm sci fi wargaming, 6mm sci-fi wargaming and 10mm fantasy wargaming, now they're basically left with Warhammer 40 000, while pretending they didn't even care about being a games company anyway. They could have been the big dick still if they hadn't painted themselves into a corner with their bad design choices and shitty business decisions.
The fact that they're still relevant at all is largely because of 40k and because they had such a huge lead on every competitor to begin with.
>>46543694
Jesus fuck you are retarded.
>Whilst we are disappointed with the decline in return on capital reported in the period, we are
all confident that we are focused on delivering the necessary changes to address this decline.
>December sales were below expectations across the Group. At this stage in the Company’s financial year, the Company’s internal projections indicate that pre-tax profit for the year to 29 May 2016 is unlikely to excee £16 million
And that's without comparing those numbers to what they were during GW's glory days.
Please go shoot yourself in the mouth.
>>46543067
I do like big armies but then again I have the tree like patience to slowly build, I ask why not both?
>>46543821
Because GW is so stupid they think a smaller scale system is 'competition' with the bigger game instead of an entry point.
>>46543704
>With stores closing and lots of LGS's becoming increasingly fed up with GW they are losing their grip on the market and without that they are fucked.
except GW actually opened more retail locations and increased the number of 3rd party stores selling their shit this past year.
>>46543728
>veterans despise their game
AoS actively wants to get rid of those. They couldn't care less about a crows who would constantly bitch and buy nothing.
As far as AoS being by far the worst system? Yes, just taking the 4 pages it is pretty unplayable. Take some kind of comp and 3-4 house rules and the game can be entertaining. And it has a few things going for it for casual LGS play: Easy to set up, not many models needed, highly customizable and not much time required to play.
As far as I can tell most new player come from 40k. people who always enjoyed the models but never wanted to invest. Now they can take whatever they want.
But all the positives it has going for it, small as they might be, is worth nothing if GW doesn't work on the living rulebook, give the community regular new stuf to play around with -a secnario book with 15 new battleplans every few months for $20 would be pretty good, as opposed to the overpriced hardcover stuff they do now- and most importantly: Don't release just Stormcast/Khorne for 30 bucks per model. Sell cheaper stuff, get a solid base, then go and release $120 models for every faction. PP did it with the collossals and I hardly know anyone who didn't get one.
>>46543815
lmfao ok kid.
>>46543854
And they consistently report profits quarter after quarter while most Failing Lame Gay Spots barely manage to stay out of the red by peddling MTG crack and dewritos
>>46543704
Which is just ashame, because the IP is what brought me in, I Dont want my necrons to collect dust
>>46542246
So GW is forgetting they need a human element, no community, no sales and then their IP gets bought by a company who cares even less and we all suffer
>>46542372
>What they should have done is focus more on skirmish rules sets and things like that
Agreed. I have always wondered if the current game could be brought down to the level of Necromunda, but with all the races of mainstream 40K. Seems like a much more enjoyable and affordable game.
>>46543952
They are slowly, ever so slowly turning around. Depending on the outcome of the Facebook FAQ and if they keep releasing the "Get Started!" boxes things might yet look up.
>>46543955
The sweet spot we want is rules comparable with necrimunda/mordhime style skirmish play, but can still smoothly transition to army level play
>>46543485
I wouldn't disagree that it was a mistake. Just that it wasn't accidental in nature. Bad rules design combined with minis sales driven by game rules combined with competition on both the minis design and rules front, and unsustainable price increases = inevitable failure.
>>46543980
I did look up on learning about overkill and the genestealer rules, but was sad when they still snuffed out brettonia
>>46543859
>comp
Most people expect a game to be finished when its released, especially with the obscene model prices.
And it is AWFUL for casual player because you need lots of experience to make it balanced, as it stands its trivial for people to stomp their opponent by accident. A good casual game needs tight, balanced rules and an impartial way to set up forces.
>AoS actively wants to get rid of those
Then they are idiots, veterans are the ones who introduce new people to games. People stopped buying because GW is idiotic and won't give people what they want at sane prices.
>>46542246
They went public. This introduced a set of problems that has been rotting the company at it's core. When game decisions are made or influenced by accountants and cfo's, etc. this is the result. It's been discussed time and time again. Creativity and passion cant be substituted with the bottom line. They can coexist - but thats not whats happening at Games Workshop.
>>46543952
there is no reason for them to sell their IP. They get royalties from their licensing.
>>46543980
>get started boxes
This just brings them out of crazy levels.
What they really need is an across the board price cut. No 28mm scale infantry character ever has an excuse to cost more than £5.
And £3.50 for a monopose plastic Dwarf with a horrible sculpt is just an insult to people who might have considered playing.
>>46544017
None of the bigger GW systems were playable out of the box except maybe LotR. Fantasy had miles long comp documents and even then matches could be incredibly lopsided. Not having point costs on the other hand was a completely retarded move.
>>46544214
40k was never in this much of a mess before and I never had to use comp to play Fantasy in 6th edition.
Near impenetrable lore a la Forgotten Realms.
>>46542246
http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/
Don't be intimidated by its length, it's worth every minute.
>>46543982
I think the problem is too many people have insufficient attention spans to accommodate complex rules for large scale battles.
I'd be all for that though, I'd love skirmish play.
>>46542246
because their models are some of the most hideously expensive things on the planet, i mean shit you can buy top tier model tanks with shit like copper and brass pieces for the same price as a leman russ
>if it costs up to 300 odd quid just to basically get the models and extra shit just to put a basic army on the table you dun fucked up
>>46543854
>>46543859
>>46543882
>>46543889
This DESU SENPAI They are getting record sales today across the board and will probably buy all the shitty concurrence in 5 years!
>>46544046
Lol If GW was ruled by actual accountants it would not be where it is today, its just run by hacks and retards now.
>>46542246
Fun fact:
Warcraft happened because GW pulled the rug on a licensing agreement early.
It now shits money and GW is rotting away.
I'd like how this turned out, but Blizzard turned into a shit company too, so...
>>46544639
A lot of game companies have gone to shit.
>>46544639
Blizzard went to shit after they got bought out by Activision and got focused into a profits-only-fuck-the-customer company.
Also why the fuck aren't they using their in-house CGI studio to make the Warcraft movie? This blending real actors in Game of Thrones-tier plastic armor with CGI Orcs looks fucking awful and the entire thing would be a lot better if they just made the entire movie CGI like they did with their game cinematics. Imagine a two and a half hour long WOTLK cinematic. It'd be amazing.
>>46544661
'S what happens when they turn from Game Companies into Companies that make Games, anon.
>>46542258
So, like every company these days?
>>46544836
Yeah its why I can't find a job!
>>46542246
Too comfy with their pole position, got overtaken by companies with more interest and more feeling for the pulse of the target audience. Now they are scrambling in panic and fuck it all up because they never had to deal with such a situation before.
>>46543056
I don't think /tg/ really hates it, there's just a vocal minority that likes to shitpost and the rest is wary of it, which they should be. Kickstarter is great, but like everything in business, you have to keep a keen eye so you don't get robbed.
>>46544942
>>46543056
Isn't the problem that small businesses can't afford the advertising campaigns required to run a successful kickstarter? Chaosium for example.
>>46544942
I think the same personally. People should be more aware and careful of the dangers of kickstarter robbery; it happens so goddamned often that I'm not surprised legal action hasn't been taken about it yet.
>>46545045
No its not a problem. I can't tell you how many people I have seen do "build it and they will come" approach and then be surprised when their shit fails. Doesn't cost a lot of money for advertising especially for niche products where you wouldn't be using standard advertising anyways.
>>46545045
The problem is most kickstarter developers don't know how to actually run a business. So they stumble and run out of money after any initial success. Or completely dry up after the kickstarter finishes.
Kickstarter's great, but not all problems can be solved by throwing money at them.
>>46543600
Is that map for real or is it something fan made?
>>46545101
You probably aren't wrong, but they're campaigns that spent a fortune on advertising like Mighty No. 9.
>>46545163
I think it's a leak for AoS.I can't believe my hobby died for that shit.
>>46544476
>Can buy perfect-grade gundams and historical models for less than GW's 'premium quality' models
Joke company desu senpai
>>46545192
That looks like something I would have made when I started collecting in primary school.
I am genuinely shocked that is official artwork.
>>46543600
>JUST
>>46545163
This is what AoS maps are like.
>>46545370
Yeah, its pretty terrible.
>>46545528
Okay this one is actually pretty cool.
>>46545564
Its still shitty quality though.
>>46545528
They're run by idiots who don't understand long-term strategy.
>>46545045
Its more like 90% of the people that start a Kickstart have no idea what they are doing. Small businesses mostly end up mismanaged or in a situation where they just can't compete. It takes a lot of advertisement to draw attention to a uninspiring product.
Its like the restaurant industry, most fail within their first year, because its a lot of people just not realizing what goes into it, and its a lot of just not being able to stand out.
>>46545062
People need to stop trying to pretend its a store and realize its still an investment. Yes, you are not going in for a share of the profit, like the standard investment, but you are still getting something out of it.
>>46543067
The older format, keeping 40k skirmish level and apocalypse FW supplements for mega-level enthusiasts, was the best direction.
>>46545757
The original intention for Kickstarter was just that. A project that only needed a kickstart to get off the ground. A good example would be a book with buyers lined up that only needs money to cover the cost of the first print run.
Problem is people are stupid and there is (was) a big market for unicorn dreams.
>>46542246
When they went public, share holders are sucking the life out of it. Look at 2000AD, they went through a similar process and all I can say it they'll bounce back but we still have a lot of years of shit ahead of us. It's too big now to just walk away from but they'll run it into the ground before they change direction.
>>46542372
They seemed to get rid of Specialist Games because they didn't make a pile of money in themselves. But it seems to me that lots of people played specialist games inbetween periods of doing Fantasy and 40k, it kept their interest in GW and kept bringing them back, and greatly enriched the GW universes. GW pretty much told everyone that there's only one way to play GW, it's Fantasy or 40K, and it's great big armies all the way. Further, dropping Specialist Games opens up lots of holes in the market that other companies are keen to fill. Great for gamers, but GW can't easily retake that ground, or undo the exposure to other companies they have allowed.
Their magazine has turned to shit with the same thinking. The magazine advertising their product, thus it should do absolutely nothing suggestive of anything else. WD had a lot of adverts for a long time, but gradually it became more white space and everything was an advert, all the creativity and interesting stuff was gone. Cheap to write and wall to wall crass advertising.
By always looking at the bottom line, GW have cut themselves down. They just seem to limp along year after year making cuts to store staff and cutting everything to the bone so as to stay profitable and keep paying dividends. But it's ultimately going to make it very difficult to turn around if they ever want to be really creative again.
>>46542246
they started being publicly traded
as soon as that happens, any morals or ideals a company might have had are immediately forced to at best tertiary importance, after;
stockholder dividends and maintaining or improving the stock price
>>46542246
Don't worry guys, as soon as 3D printers are more commonplace and armies can be produced for a few bux, they'll breathe their last.
>>46544693
It's because live action is considered more "credible" then animation
>>46544693
This guy knows what's up - Blizzard's cinematics have been top notch since Warcraft 3, I imagine they could make a full-length movie with that engine.
>>46544693
It costs too much and takes too much time to make a feature-length CGI movie.
>>46546651
Hell even post Activision blizzard has good cutscenes, well except one
>>46545528
>skullheaps
This setting literally has just piles of severed heads. Mountains of bloody skulls with bits of flesh still on. Are they naturally forming, or did some daemon just go "fuck it, I'm gonna collect mortal heads" and then things got out of hand, like on that hoarders show, so he moved a bit to the north and started again until skull mounds dotted the landscape?
>>46545528
All I can think of when I see this image is Rollercoaster Tycoon 2.
>>46546868
The AoS setting is basically a Deathklok Themepark.
>>46546902
No, because that would be interesting.
their only actual competition went out of business and was purchased by a company that did nothing with the license until they sold it recently.
>>46546902
I'd legitimately play a Dethklok war game.
>CFO hero as my commander, Klokateers to fill out my army, special equipment: lamps
>>46547017
fuck I want that.
>>46547017
I've seen somebody do up an Imperial Guard army themed around Metalocalypse. Klokateer guardsmen, Rockzo psycher, the band as a command squad. It was pretty sweet.
>>46546934
>their only actual competition
You what? Their competition is growing all the time and they are losing sales to other companies.
There is a reason their sales fall while the industry as a whole keeps growing.
>>46547115
in the 90ies
>>46546447
yeah man cause 2d table top games really got BTFO by home printers.....
>>46544693
>Also why the fuck aren't they using their in-house CGI studio to make the Warcraft movie? This blending real actors in Game of Thrones-tier plastic armor with CGI Orcs looks fucking awful and the entire thing would be a lot better if they just made the entire movie CGI like they did with their game cinematics. Imagine a two and a half hour long WOTLK cinematic. It'd be amazing.
because they actually want to make money. not lose money spending big bucks for a few measly NEET dollars.
>>46547300
Right, because these things are exactly the same
>>46543067
>>46543486
>>46543982
I honestly dislike the idea of skirmish, mostly because its slow and boring. I prefer it when I can run mutiple tanks without having to focus my entire army around one, like a TAG in infinity. Besides, GW will never do this because it would piss of people who already built huge armies. Out of 40k, 3rd to 4th edition was far superior to the early days. Its only now that things have gotten silly, but suggesting we go back to the idea of 10 minis perside is dumb. Another thing i dislike about skirmish games is the use of named characters. Why the hell are these super duper generals and such getting so close?
>>46543600
I barely count X-wing as table top game, considering how it barely shares anything with other TT games, and the absolute lack of a hobby scene
>>46543859
>AoS actively wants to get rid of those.
Then they did a great job. People who have spend literally thousands of dollars on their armies, have stopped buying product because their armies don't work anymore.
Yeah, it's a sunk cost fallacy, but I've seen two game stores worth of people jump ship on GW completely.
>>46547762
>Besides, GW will never do this because it would piss of people who already built huge armies.
What makes you think GW fears pissing off the people who already built armies?
>I barely count X-wing as table top game
Its sold in hobby stores and played on a tabletop by a customer base that overlaps significantly with other wargames. You may not consider it to be competition, but GW sure better if they expect to hold onto their market share.
>>46547762
>I barely count X-wing as table top game, considering how it barely shares anything with other TT games, and the absolute lack of a hobby scene
Listen, if GW wants to go back to the days of throwing GTs, you can make that claim. The fact that x-wing has a national competition supported by the company that makes it already puts it on another level.
I don't play the game personally, I like armada much more, but it's a more interesting game than AoS.
>>46542407
Can't wait untill they bankrupt (It will take a while I know, beasts like this die long and painful deaths).
The time before anyoneprobably Disnybuys their IP and starts making their own stuff will be the golden age.
>everything agreed upon in the internet via massive nerdwar/consensus
>new models made by fans (people who care) and adapted to 3D printing
>Old armies instantly triple in worth because of the lack of supply - rise of demand because it got good again
>>46548031
My money is on FFG. That's who has been buying up GW's boardgame and RPG licenses.
>>46548031
we can have that already, except for new models, but there are plenty already
I think AOS could be a step in the right direction. An easy to grasp skirmish appropriate game with great models. The fluff sucks, but the great writers of old aren't there, so what do you expect?
However, the damage is done. AOS isn't a launch in a new direction, its a desperate attempt to claw their way up from the bottom of the pit the game fell into.
>>46548031
>everything agreed upon in the internet via massive nerdwar/consensus
>new models made by fans (people who care) and adapted to 3D printing
Do you get the feeling that there's a fan boy in here upset that we think GW is having problems?
I think the problems stem from power creap, army nullification, and no good starting point. Yes, AOS upset people, but the damage was done before that.
>>46547017
We're ready to rock our way across the warp.
>>46547948
I guess thats true, I was making the assumption that GW would be smart. But focusing on smaller armies would certainly piss off people who bought larger stuff.
>>46547976
Oh of course, X-wing is way better. But i put it more along the lines of MtG; a game more popular than 40k, but entirely different.
>>46547762
>skirmish, mostly because its slow and boring.
>skirmish
>slow and boring.
>I barely count X-wing as table top game,
You can just say you're retarded and save people the trouble of reading your posts.
>>46547762
Wow. Im not sure youve ever played a skirmish game.
>>46544535
You are incorrect sir. The studio is beholden to the executives. And the executives are directly responsible for some of the poor design decisions that killed WHFB and are now killing WH40k.
![1277360935176[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/8ELZej5.png "1277360935176[1].png")
>>46542372
>Warhammer should never have become a mass combat system
It's idiots like you who're responsible for the shitfest that is Age Of Sigmar
>>46543067
>>46543955
Just because he says it in a vaguely authoritative tone, doesn't mean he's right
During Warhammer's golden age during the 90s and early 2000s, model count was just as high as it is now. Warhammer became big in the first place because people wanted the tabletop battles between army-sized forces of historical gaming combined with the fantasy and sci-fi settings of role playing games like D&D. First edition 40k was a mess with jumbled rules that only worked for skirmish games, and it got expanded out to army-size because although people liked the setting they wanted the larger scale.
Repeat: GWs early success was based around the fact that they realised that SKIRMISH GAMES WEREN'T POPULAR
While everybody else was trying to make rules for D&D clones with a couple of models on the table, GW gave you actual battles. If people wanted to play skirmish, there was still Necromunda, but you know what? Not many people did.
The only reason skirmish games have become popular is because the price-per-model has been hiked up so high that a lot of prospective players can't afford it any more. GW went for quality over quantity in their models (herp derp we're not a gaming company, we're a modelling shop) when their whole business model was based around giving quantity in the first place. It didn't have to be like that. Back when I started playing around ~2002 you could get a box of 16 chaos marauders for £15, and you didn't have to pad your army with specials with stupidly over-sized, over-elaborate models. There isn't any mystery as to why GW is failing: they went exclusively for the high-end customer and ended up pricing themselves out of the market where they'd originally carved their niche. GW could solve a lot of its problems by simply decreasing price per model.
>>46548122
They already had at least two easy to grasp skirmish games, AoS is just tripe.
>>46548989
I actually have some of the pld noise marines with mohawks and guitars. I've been looking for a scale size VW Bus, I mean Rhino, for my band. I can't find one that's scaled appropriately however. Someday I'll get to make my conversion.
>>46549039
>The only reason skirmish games have become popular is because the price-per-model has been hiked up so high that a lot of prospective players can't afford it any more.
That is an outright lie and you know it is.
Its ridiculous to claim that dozens of games are only played because people do not want to pay for a big army.
>model count was just as high as it is now
Wrong, 8th edition armies were bigger than 6th edition ones and had much bigger units.
>>46549039
Warhammer works well as a competetive mass combat system, but you need a small level to go with ut for quick pickup games and starting out.
Look at X-Wing. Standard is 100 points, easy to get into. Epic is 300 points.
Age in theory is great as the 50-1500 point game, Fantasy at 1500-4000.
40k should be between one box, any box, and Apocalypse.
>>46543694
>>46543882
>>46544497
Bad damage control. So bad that it's probably not even the GW IDF, but some joker trying to make them look bad with false flag shitposting.
>>46549039
An attempt to make a skirmish game was not automatically doomed to become the failure that is AoS. GW fucked up colossally, but that doesn't mean the idea of a smaller scale game is inherently bad.
>>46549039
The price per models is what they really need to focus on as you said. I would still like them to reduce the model count however, but not to something with ~a dozen figures, but more to around thirty with a tank or two.
>>46549039
I more or less agree, and I love mass combat games, but in 6th and most of 7th the models per unit were generally between 10-12 for super elite infantry units, 15-20 for normal infantry and only slaves or goblin USUALLY went upper, at least in my meta. You generally bought a box of plastics and the models in it were enough to deploy that unit. There were no rules encouraging mega-units of 40 models and one could start with fun 1000 points games and then scale up.
In 5th the model count was lesser but I preferred 6th-7th because the characters in 5th were too strong.
>>46549211
>GW IDF
i'm not even sure they exist, the company appears to be convinced everything is rainbows and unicorns.
Here is a great excerpt from the article posted earlier:
“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”
Really says it all. Sales people see the company through a very narrow lens, the kind of lens that only focuses on very short-term, predictable profits.
>>46544535
>>46548728
From an interview with Rick Priestly.
>The financial scare spooked management, Priestley said, leading to a change in Games Workshop’s culture.
>“The appetite for new games just disappeared,” he said.
>“But I have to say that this was not due to the concept being wrong, I think it was due to them not having the sophistication to manage the stock or manage the new sales divisions that had been created.
>“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”
>>46549127
It might not be 100% true or even a major factor, but to claim it as an outright lie would be wrong as well.
If anything, I'd say that it is a sensible claim that feels like it can be true (likely because I hold similar beliefs and thus am biased to it already) but it's not something easily provable one way or the other.
At the very least we can agree that the idea of spending 300 bucks and getting a tournament level list skirmish games versus spending 300 in 40k and getting 2 troops and a hq is a whole lot easier to swallow to a new player.
>>46549191
Very heavy on the theory.
There already was a Warhammer skirmish game using the same rules and models, it worked great. But GW dropped it for some reason.
And 40k has been a joke every since GW made normal 40k just like Apocalypse to make more money.
>>46549039
>army-sized forces of historical gaming
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm I think you'll find that WFB forces only have 100-200 individuals on the table top.
That's not an army. Historical gaming, WWII and onwards stuff notwithstanding, represent thousands of people.
>>46549274
Oh I don't mean IDF in any official capacity. I'm talking about touchy fanboys and/or GW store employees doing it unofficially..
>>46549299
There are lots of pre modern skirmish historical games with a 1:1 representation.
>>46549344
that's the point.
to call WHFB armies "realistic" depictions in the context of force size is laughable
>>46549344
But I'm not talking about skirmish games.
>>46549127
>Wrong, 8th edition armies were bigger than 6th edition ones and had much bigger units.
you could field units as big as you liked in 6th, so that's bullshit. I think 8th increased the minimum width of a rank from 4 to 5, but that's hardly a big jump. I used to field marauders in blocks of 32 - 64 when I'd built up my army enough to play that scale of battle. Granted, earlier editions might have been slightly better geared to allowed small AND large scale games, but even in a small game we're still talking about dozens of models on the table, nowhere near skirmish size.
>Its ridiculous to claim that dozens of games are only played because people do not want to pay for a big army.
it's not the only reason, but it is the main reason GW started losing market share. After people started buying into skirmish games they got invested in them, and their fluff and mechanics, and now stuff like Warmahordes has a sizeable player base it's all started to be self-sustaining. But none of that would happened in the first place if GW hadn't increased models prices so ridiculously, and it's still an ongoing process, with GW driving potential new players into skirmish games.
>>46549235
I'm not saying that there isn't a place for skirmish games. I'm not saying that there can't be Warhammer skirmish games. I'm just saying that the idea that GW's problem is too many models is flat out retarded (and the kind of thinking that led to insane decisions like scrapping WHFB to make AoS)
>>46549299
WHFB was originally designed to hit the sweet spot between skirmish level D&D and historical wargaming, where you'd have thousands of troops (as block regiments). Not quite real army size, I agree, but at least a passable imitation unlike the skirmish games available, which was what gave it its success.
>people have been saying for 5+ years that GW is killing themselves
>yet GW keeps posting profits quarter after quarter and their executives are getting richer and richer all the time
Hmm....what does this mean?
>>46549724
They post profits, but it doesn't mean that they are increasing. At least point out that fantasy sales went up slightly with AoS if you want to defend that awful company.
>>46549724
It means you guys dont know what sales shrink is, and how they kept profit relatively flat while actual revenue declined.
But hey, it's an anonymous message board, and you have an mba from an Ivy league institution -so fuck it, right? Shitpost away Mr. Buffet.
>>46549724
>GW keeps posting profits quarter after quarter
I think you mean to say
>GW keeps posting lower profits quarter after quarter
It takes a while for a company that size to spiral down into the gutter, but each year their profits are lower than the year before. Eventually they'll end up in the red and that will be that.
>>46542246
>The financial scare spooked management, Priestley said, leading to a change in Games Workshop’s culture.
>“The appetite for new games just disappeared,” he said.
>“But I have to say that this was not due to the concept being wrong, I think it was due to them not having the sophistication to manage the stock or manage the new sales divisions that had been created.
>“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”
http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/
>>46549658
Seeing normal non goblin/skaven infantry in blocks of bigger than 20 was extremely unusual before 8th edition. And it was not unusual to see elite infantry in blocks of just 10-12.
The increase in model count for 8th was a significant problem, it increased the barrier to entry. Both actual and also mental from seeing the armies people used.
i feel like Apocalypse was the start of the end for me . I used to have so much fun in 4th edition playing 800 point battles and making a small warband and fluff for them. I can see the appeal in these huge massive fuck off battles but its not for me and its a massive money sink and time investment especially when you want to paint and convert your models. Now that you can have a Riptide suit or an army of knights in a 500 point battle I'm not interested.
Unrelated but they also don't do books like they used too. I spent so much time mulling over this as a teenager
>>46550007
That codex was amazing.
>>46550007
Yeah apocalypse rattled our ~50+ strong playerbase here in Phoenix, AZ. When Escalation came out we lost probably half of our players overnight. Over the course of 6th we gained and lost a few, probably a net loss overall. When the Necron, KDK, and Eldar codexes hit over the course of a few months, everything just evaporated.
Now I see a couple WH40k games on friday nights, or the odd casual game between friends on a random afternoon. If there are similar situations going on across the globe, there is absolutely no way this game survives.
The silver lining? All the former 40k players have branched out into a variety of different games, and its damn near created a renaissance of new game exploration and taking leaps into the unknown. So I guess we owe Games Workshop a debt of gratitude for being so utterly incompetent at managing their systems.
>>46550117
I still wish that there would be something to fill 40k's old niche instead of the many small skirmish systems currently. I still like to see largers vehicles in 28mm, just not too much of them.
>>46549658
>you could field units as big as you liked in 6th, so that's bullshit.
Yes but the system did not ENCOURAGED you to do so with specific rules for bigger units.
> think 8th increased the minimum width of a rank from 4 to 5, but that's hardly a big jump.
It is if the models in the box do not change. Buy 16 orcs and and unit of rank of 5 or 6 is not possible out of the box. You can buy additional ones and people feel cheated.
>dozen of models
In 5th 12 warriors of chaos, 5 knights and a mounted character was 1000 points. There was this specific example in my high school edgelord Realm of Chaos book.
All else aside, I just get the feeling they treat their customers with absolute contempt. Fuck you, we know you'll spend $30+ on a single space marine, eat shit fatty.
>>46550245
yeah 40k was at its best when it still was infantry focussed with a few tanks/vehicles
>>46550082
What is really amazing (and sad) is that you can build less feasible armies now for CSM with 3 books twice the size of the 3.5 one, plus more dataslates, than with that book.
I really don't know if they stopped giving a fuck, fired anyone with talent, it is calculated greed or a mix of all but I hope they will pay for this.
40k is just an absolute mess of a game, and I don't understand why anyone plays it beyond that point where it's the only wargame you've heard of.
It's utterly confused about scale- it wants to have individual infantry and titans on the same board.
The balance is more or less non-existent, especially with formations and unbound everywhere.
The rules are neither deep enough to be really tactical nor simple enough to be a quick, fun game- there's lots of shit, but not much of it interacts meaningfully. Just ends up as a lot of bookkeeping.
>>46550363
dataslates<
>>46543318
>Honestly I think that AoS isn't necessarily shit in and of itself
Stopped reading.
AOS is such a confusing game. People say it;s nice to have a game without points where you can just field whatever you want, but there's nothing stopping you doing that in any game ever- just disregard the points and pop down what you feel like. And then they come up with endless ways to competitively balance it all.
>>46550427
>Unbound
Is there some great plague of Unbound players dominating the world by tabling enemies somewhere when, say, Battleforged eldar and tau are wholly top notch?
>>46550488
It's not necessarily stronger, but it lets you do stupid shit like all heavy tanks, and if someone's casual army isn't prepared for that it's not going to be a fun game.
Realizing that no matter how broken thongs like Wardian codices made the game, power gamers would still jump on new "OP" armies every time. Then coming too late to realize that casual gamers wanted to have fun and didn't like to rebuild their army everytime a new iteration of the codex with copypasted fluff and pics is released.
>Ugh. I'm really sounding salty...
>Consider collecting Tau because ofA E S T H E T I C S
>See price tag on Tau Commander at FLGS
>$50
>Nevermind, I'd need another $50 for paints and brushes, and I haven't even bought another model yet!
That. That right there. Even if he comes with a couple of drones (which are simple as fuck models) that's still unbelievable.
Fuck that.
>>46543537
http://masterminis.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-future-of-games-workshop-part-15.html?m=1
>>46550561
The easy way around that is to decline games from assholes
>>46545660
If AoS was presented as being ludicrously OTT like Doom I'd have zero problems with it but it's just trying to hard and desperately wants to be taken seriously.
>>46549211
>GW IDF
GW doesn't even have a PR department and is proud of it. IRL companies that use internet shills (i.e. disney) don't even bother with 4chan, this little fish sure as hell wouldn't even if they had one.
>>46547762
>I honestly dislike the idea of skirmish, mostly because its slow and boring.
As opposed to 2000+ point games with huge numbers of units, which tend to breeze by?
>>46550609
That article is good, but it is old. In 2015 a lot of things changed for GW. Time will tell if it was for the better or worse, but so far 2016 is off to a good start.
>>46549801
hey idiot you can see all their annual reports with a simple google search. they are doing better this decade then they were previous decade.
>, but each year their profits are lower than the year before
is totally not a trend if you took 5 mins to look for yourself.
>>46550651
The GW IDF is a purely volunteer organisation comprised of battered wives.
>>46547762
Nigga you dumb.
>>46543859
>Take some kind of comp and 3-4 house rules and the game can be entertaining.
Requiring the end user to make house rules to make it playable isn't a strong argument in favor of the system
>>46549211
that was me who posted that shit. I don't even play GW stuff because its too rich for my blood. But I don't fantasize about them crumbling like some people who are butt devastated. Some people can pay for more expensive things than you, get over it.
>>46550726
I think battered wives are the majority of GW clientele. The strong independent ones moved on to new games.
>>46550245
try Bolt-Action. It's a ww2 skirmish game set in 28mm. It's not very historical though. I mean the vehicles, hardware and uniforms are all there, it's just more "Hollywood historical" if that makes sense.
>>46550793
>thatsthejoke.jpg
>>46547762
>I honestly dislike the idea of skirmish, mostly because its slow and boring.
>I barely count X-wing as table top game, considering how it barely shares anything with other TT games, and the absolute lack of a hobby scene.
You should actually play X-wing. An average game lasts about 45 minutes.
Prepainted models do harm the hobby scene, but it keeps games from being unpainted grey ships vs unpainted grey ships.
And if you really want to you can repaint your ships.
>>46550479
On one hand I wanted a combined Bret/HE army for years.
But on the other, the game is unayable in a straight up battle and the lore is horrendous.
My friends and I have made a rule only to play in the points range of 500-800 for our games. It's a lot better that way, and none of us have to buy any more models.
>>46542246
The same thing that happens to all companies.
Marketing/management took over from creative/engineering.
>>46550561
but I mean you can already take the minimum
>>46550245
>>46550809
Warlord are bringing out a weird war version of Bolt Action called Konflict '47 which I'm pretty excited about since in theory you could have a pseudo historical army for Bolt Action and then just by a few of the more sci-fi/dieselpunk minis to use the same army in K47.
>>46550664
Holiday sales 2015-16 did not meet expectations. By GW's own admission. If Im not mistaken that same report mentioned BaC missing its sales goals, and some vague, positive remark about AoS.
Looking at their own downward trending sales numbers over the previous 4 shareholders reports, and taking into account the downsizing and the various fat-trimming and corporate tactics to keep profit from taking it on the chin - I expect this years report to be an eye opener. Huge releases like Knights, a new game, a new edition, new codex releases, plastic HH werent able to stimulate growth. That is a very bad sign. This is new territory for Games Workshop, and they will have to face some hard truths later this year. I have no care for their fate nor their future decisions - but I am definitely curious to see how they react.
Thus far they have remained stubbornly obtuse, and seemingly in denial that their bad decisions and sales strategies are causing these problems.
Will they eat crow and completely rethink their approach? Or do they double down on stupidity and myopy as they have done in the recent past. It's like watching an HBO drama, except it's real.
>>46543600
What the fuck is that some final fantasy shit?
Looks like an Everquest map
Why would gw throw away the vast interesting and believable warhammer world
>>46550651
>IRL companies that use internet shills (i.e. disney) don't even bother with 4chan,
That might change if you had a large, popular image board devoted to your market. GW hardly a major company in the larger world. It's what is termed a micro-cap company at only 155M good boy points. Disney doesn't need to worry about what's happening on a Laotian puppet forum, but GW probably does. Not saying that GW does emply paid shills, just that saying major companies don't shill here doesn't mean a small company like GW doesn't
>>46545163
Welcome to Age of Digital Art Interns
Some of that cost cutting mentioned elsewhere in this thread probably went to the art department.
>>46550682
This is true, but they have been masking sales shrink and protecting profits by way of downsizing and increasing efficiency. Which is good. But the loss of market share, and selling significantly less product is not good. It is akin to avoiding taking your medicine. You arent going to get better until you admit that youre sick, and then take the necrssary steps to cure that sickness. GW doesnt seem to be able to admit that its sick.
>>46542246
40k creator Priestley it all went wrong when marketing gained control rather than the creative design.
>>46550792
>d-d-d-d-d-d-damage control!
Nice mad ;)
>>46550651
Oh shut up you retarded cunt. Nobody means an "official PR department" when they talk about IDFs. They mean buttrustled fanboys who'll leap to something's defence.
>>46551102
The Realms are "near-infinite" a d "ever shifting" so a worldmap of any of the eight planes, the Warp, or Skavenblight is now impossible.
So GW can produce a new map for every story without having to worry about any actual consistency.
>>46551224
Half their Sigmarine art is CG they apply filters to. There's an image they released bragging about this.
They pay for one character model, then repose it.
>>46550651
IRL entities certainly shill on websites they think have communities relevant to their products. Like it or not, 4chan is an engine of low level internet culture.
I doubt Disney shills here - we don't really have that much of a fanbase for them, anyway. But do traditional gaming companies? I have zero doubt. We know devs and corporate employees browse /tg/ because they have referenced it in the past, either as a sly nod of the head or an explicit shout-out. It's not too much of a reach to suspect that GW might inject deleterious elements into fan communities.
>>46547762
You sound fun to game with
>Muh spooky 4chan shills.
>Muh paranoid delusions over my obscure hobbeh.
>Muh failure to realize I'm a fucking retard.
Come on guys. If there is ever any shilling going on here its hardcore fanboys, redshirts, mongloids new to the hobby, etc. Games Workshop dors not employ someone to guerilla market on internet message boards and such.
>>46551471
I'm not here to have fun, I'm here to win
>>46551227
loss of marketshare to whom ?
>>46550245
Try giving "Tomorrow's War" a shot? I haven't played it myself but from what I understand it's 20-30 guys and max like 2 or 3 vehicles. From the same company that does Force on Force so the focus is probably on more realistic infantry tactics rather than "lol I attack the tank with my chain sword"
>>46551700
>I'm not here to have fun, I'm here to win
This kills the game.
>>46551812
I would love to see something like that but with an actual model range. The unit count is perfect though.
>>46550828
Are those repaints? Quality seems much nicer than any diecast or pre-painted models I've seen in the past
>>46551801
Fantasy Flight, Privateer Press, Battlefront, Corvus Belli, Mantic, Wyrd, Warlord, the list goes on.
>>46551915
Those are repaints, but the paintjobs for X-Wing are pretty good.
>>46551968
I will attest to that. They are certainly in another league than the truly terrible Heroclix figures, but not as high as something you have lovingly painted yourself.
>>46551700
Daaaaaaayyyyyuuuuuummmm. So obvious, yet with a subtle finesse. I sense years of successful trolling under your belt. Your undone, beleagured belt. That poor belt suffers for all of us. It once held your Lee's waistband proudly hidden just under your dorito receptacle, and provocatively above your front butt. But years of sustained, expert-level trolling has taken it's toll. It no longer reaches the final customized perforation you skillfuly created using your mothers finest, ketchup stained steak knife. We cry for thee, belt of fa/tg/uy. We share in thy suffering, for it is but a small price to pay if that is what it takes to bask in such master trolls. Please anon, link your blog, your twitter, something. This hunger for more can never be sated without.
>>46551801
Possibly the dumbest post on the entirety of 4chan right now. Congratulations man, this is quite a feat.
>>46551345
Why even bother? You can't get any kind of narrative like "the militia is marching forth to stop an orcish incurion into the empire" or whatever little backstory you want to come up with if there isn't any consistent world. Mauraders raiding the farm? Who cares, there aren't any lasting impact or consequences, lets just roll up another infinite plane.
>>46551953
Fantasy Flight sells licensed Games Workshop product as well as many other products that GW will never sell so I am not even going to count them. (and FF is going to do great regardless of GW does or doesnt do).
Privateer Press on the other hand is a true competitor but since they are a private company I have no idea what there actual numbers are but on speculation it would appear to not even be close to GW.
>>46552008
nice copypasta my boi
>>46552099
You realize that Fantasy Flight makes X-Wing, which outsells 40K, right? And by all measures Warmahordes is only behind X-Wing and 40K in popularity. It doesn't matter how close they are, it just matters that there is competition in the first place.
>>46552073
AoS epitomizes Games Workshops detachement from the hobby. It is failure taken physical form.
>>46552099
God damn nigger, you are riding this wave of stupidity like a monkey on a surfboard. Im guessing you dont understand market share? Possibly dont even know what it is? Is this the first time youve heard the term? Genuinely amazed at your ignorance.
>>46551911
Why not just use your existing 40k guys?
Or one of the mfg mentioned here: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=279305
>>46552127
Hell naw muh nig. That shits hot off the presses.
>>46552199
Those aren't bad ideas. Shame that the Prince August models aren't sold anymore. If I can get someone to play it with me, I will give it a shot. Seeing a similar game become entrenched would be great.
>>46552233
damn son thats tasty
>>46542246
It's run by ascended fanboys.
Good art comes from people who understand the ways their work is shit so they can improve that. Fanboys can't conceive of any part of their franchise being shit.
Good writing requires you to be a dick to your characters. Fanboys can't do that so they write mary sue oneupsmanship contests.
Good game design requires that you test lots of possibilities and weigh them against each other. Fanboys only care about their favorite option being the best.
Market research requires understanding that different people like different things. Fanboys can't do that because they think anyone who doesn't like their franchise is wrong.
Business sense... well, it's not directly contradictory with being a fanboy, but it's rare and if you hire the biggest fanboys instead of looking for business skill you're unlikely to get lucky.
>>46552141
>>46552194
you guys are missing the point, I bet GW makes more profit from royalties than the total operating profit of PP. I could really care less if you guys play with more figures from another company. People are claiming that GW is crashing and burning or that some other company is going to take them down which is not the case.
>>46552336
But their sales and profit do drop every year, and 40K is no longer the most popular miniatures game. These are facts. I personally doubt that they will go out of business soon, but either their game is getting smaller, other games are getting bigger, or there is some combination of the two.
>>46552336
Except they are burning. They may not be crashing, but there is absolutely a fire.
>>46542246
https://youtu.be/_1rXqD6M614
>>46552233
Fucked around and got a triple double taboot. This anon is on fire.
>>46552397
>>46552434
R E A L I T Y
>>46552505
oh, the irony, considering Apple these days
>>46552586
Thanks for including an outdated chart that doesn't even include sales. Meanwhile GW has axed one of the largest games because it wasn't profitable enough.
>>46552659
holy shit your dense you must be voting for bernard.
>>46552586
Share price does not a whole story tell.
Post rejected. Reason: laymanism.
What if someone posted their sales shrink? Huh? What then anon? What then! By your logic that would be the final word!
Seriously though. You're better than that. Think. You can do it. Push those images of feminine penises and cheese stix out of your mind. Explore reality.
>>46552684
I guess /pol/ would be the sort to not respond with any sort of argument. Enjoy forging that narrative!
>>46552684
>get told
>cast political insult
WuhuhuhuhELL played Sir!
>>46552724
i dont even play miniatures i could care less what you or your friends play. this isnt a dick measuring contest for who sold the highest number of toys to all the nerds in the land. to the people who say they are a failing company are fucking retarded.
>>46552778
Do you have a single fact to back that up? Hint: Return on capital is not equal to profit or sale numbers, especially after axing their second largest game.
>>46552778
I honestly didnt know, nor do I understand why you're mad. I thought we were all just fucking around having fun. Then you post that retarded chart that is one small slice of the pie. Come on man, who really gives a fuck? I play tons of games, including several by GW. It's not like either of us holds any interest at all in what does or doesnt happen to them. I think we can get past this, and become really great friends.
>>46552867
>Then you post that retarded chart
>facts are retarded.
>>46552778
Well son, you seem to be clinging to the facts that support the reality you prefer, and ignoring the facts that illustrate the reality you dont wish to acknowledge. Thats not very scientific.
What yall need to be doin is looking at ALL the facts, THEN arriving at a conclusion. Not selecting your favored conclusion, then cherrypicking the facts that support it. If you want help doing this lemme know. Its an awesome exercise that'll make you a better person. And waaaaaaay more scientific than you are right now.
>>46552950
No, but the context you attempted to use that chart in was most certainly retarded.
>>46552684
/pol/ plz leave
>>46543955
http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html
Check this out.
>>46551345
That's fucking dumb Everquest pulled that with Everquest 2 12 god damn years ago and then spent expansions backtracking to try and rebuild a cohesive world after getting stomped by world of Warcraft
There is no motivation no reason for anything
No empire defending humanity on all fronts
No chaos trying to corrupt the world
No ork raids or dwarf grudges
There is no point to anything anymore
>>46553114
That looks exactly like my sort of things. My old group of highschool buds are getting back together and I'm definitely running this by them.
Thanks familias
>>46543601
The root of all of GW's problems is this.
All other problems are a direct result of this.
>>46553092
He's dropping knowledge though. Apparently years of sales shrink and flat profit by way of wage-freeze, streamline, and downsize dont mean shit as long as your return and revenue only declined a little from 2013-2014.
>>46553170
Not a problem. I don't even play standard 40k anymore. HoR Kill Team is the only version I care about now.
I just got sick of dealing with tons of models, from buying them to taking 20-30 minutes to put them on and off the board. Besides, I just think the squad-sized tactics are more enjoyable.
>>46545192
I understand that games workshop was too expensive in models
But warhammer fantasy battles is not warhammer fantasy skirmishes
They should have readjusted their prices not changed the allure of the game
Now it's just a bunch of Atherial pseudo gods fighting in the "realms" like some kind of fucking Thor or Greek mythology movie
