I was looking through some old AD&D books recently, and I came across some stuff about the Drow.
Is it just me or were the Drow significantly more like an actual race back then as opposed to a caricature?
It seems like the only significantly evil thing about them was that they saw races like gnomes and humans the same way humans see kobolds and goblins, as in stuff to be exterminated or possibly enslaved.
What changed?
>Is it just me or were the Drow significantly more like an actual race back then as opposed to a caricature?
> Chad-zak
>>46540309
>Chad-zak
That's from a dragon magazine article published during 3.5e by Paizo.
>>46540344
Then, actually, yes.
Whatever Drow may have been, they are significantly less like an evil caricature then after someone wrote about Chad-zak and nobody stopped them.
Can we blame Salvatore? I think we can.
>>46541444
I was going to say this
Drizzt ruined them forever
Best Drow/Underdark sourcebooks/literature?
>>46541444
He even blames himself.
>>46540272
I like Eberron's take on the race. Drow there are significantly more interesting and diverse. While they are no good guys by any means, they are also not inexcusably evil. They have live on a distant continent, and established several different cultures.
>>46540309
>Chad-zak
What is this?
>>46540272
>What changed?
IMO, it was vampire: the masquerade. In the 90's the goth craze hit hard and along with it came an influx of tragically hip, angst-ridden literature majors who played VtM.
Every other game publisher wanted a piece of that action and/or ass. How can you blame them? It was a lot of business, good money even in the dot com era, and some of the girls were HOT. Like, as in, impossible to believe they were gaming. Strippers, doctoral students, in one weird case a stripping doctoral student, club girls, professional artists. Anyway....
So immediately the other RPGs began goth-ifying. Taking pre-existing gothy elements and playing up the grimdark tortured souls aspect. Every game had it, and D&D being the old grey lady of the RPG world did it too.
Drow weren't the only victims, but they were a big one.
>>46544140
>>46540272
Which AD&D books are Drow detailed in?
I want to see what they were like. Before.
>>46544207
>Before the dark times...
>Before the Pathfinder...
>>46543824
It is common for pregnant drow to carry twins or even triplets. Even in these cases, multiple births are rare, as the strongest of the fetuses feeds on its siblings in the womb. Pregnant drow can sometimes feel these mortal combats take place in their bellies. Such prenatal battles produce in their mothers a euphoric sensation, referred to in the Undercommon tongue as chad-zak. The feeling is infinitely stronger than that produced in the bedchamber or by any intoxicant. Without it, it is doubtful that drow women, selfish to the core, would ever deign to suffer the inconveniences of reproduction.
Chad-zak occurs up to four times per multiple pregnancy. It usually happens early in the third trimester. Mothers who experience repeated chad-zaks usually feel them in quick succession, once every one or two days. The final chad-zak indicates one fetus's successful slaying of its rivals. This process does not result in stillbirths; the slain are absorbed back into the mother's body.
>>46544268
The goth magical realm is, if not the worst, still up there among shit magical realms.
>>46544268
I am now imagining Drow versions of the Mortal Kombat cast duking it out inside the womb. I'm not sure if this is awesome or stupid.
>>46544268
What is this boner
>>46544321
You imagined that, too?
>>46544328
>>46544405
I don't even know how I would ask for more of this. What keywords would I use? Pregnancy, of course. Vanishing Twin Syndrome? In-utero homicide?
>>46544268
.....You know, the Phil and Dixie strip about the Drow has a joke about 'oops, I ate the children!'
That was pre-3.5, so predates Chad-zak.
Fucking Paizo self-actualized Drow into an even bigger parody.
This is why I gave up on 3 before 3.5 and pathfinder came around. Nothing to do with the rules; all of the writing just turned to shit.
>>46544268
That's hilarious
>Drow fetuses partaking in mortal combat in their mother's stomach gives her orgasmic sensations
Who comes up with this shit
>>46544539
Fetish-controlled morons.
My personal drow have a very simple reason why they go through pregnancy often: They live in a backstabbing society. The only people they can trust (mostly) are their family members.
Funny, in my settings the high elves are much more treachorous to the point where members of the royal house have a shorter life expectancy than the average elf
>>46544268
This sort of shit is why I let my players play drow if they want to play drow and just ignore the magical realm nonsense. Who came up with this? It looks like something an edgy teenager would write in an attempt to make a faction look as evil and twisted as possible.
>>46544268
Dark elves in my campaigns are just the elven equivalent of Tieflings, and they still don't get this edgy.
>>46544576
I figured Lolth when they were changed made them mildly more fecund then other elves to circumvent the highly likelihood of early death problem.
It fits since Lolth only cares about them the way a kid who tortures their ants in an ant farm does; if they all die she can't torment them anymore, and in Lolth's case she looses the self-sustaining group of worshippers she never needs worry about.
>>46543780
At this point Eberron is basically the one official setting I still like.
>>46544491
Absorption.
Holy fuck, why am I telling you this. Save yourself before it's too late!
>>46545434
It was always too late.
>>46543626
I was going to say Jarlaxle books, but then I remembered I was high when I was reading them and they were written by Salvatore. And they don't seem as amusing in hindsight.
>>46544207
> Before
In the beginning they were black chicks with pointy ears and hairstyles from the 80s. Because it was 80s at the time. Then someone drunk too much cool-aid tried to make them BDSM. Because piercing and spanking are Evil.
Also, this someone didn't get laid often.
>>46544140
>>46544246
The thing is, I genuinely like the mechanical adjustments made by recent editions, but I would love to play a game using an old-timey setting.
>>46544898
In canon, that's not far off. They're one of the cursed races, the other big one being orcs, and arguably tieflings, although they have more freedom of choice as to how they turn out.
>>46540272
Dunmer > Drow
>>46545933
Well yeah. But they're hardly the same thing. Dunmer are arguably the least evil elves in the setting.
>>46545933
My N'wah
>>46544207
I am looking forward to having a chance to translate the evilness of the drow in the corporate world.
>>46540344
>>46540515
>>46544268
Fetal reabsorption does actually occasionally take place in real life, in early-stage miscarriages, but the mother obviously doesn't experience any such pleasure from it.
>>46547711
>you will never be blackmailed into having your face shoved between her stocking clad thighs
>>46547919
>She has an important meeting.
>Your face is between her thighs while she talks buisness.
>>46544268
>>46540515
>>46540344
Also, shark fetuses cannibalize eachother in the womb, ensuring that only the strongest out of them survives to be born. It's an acquired trait to ensure the strength of offspring even before birth, made necessary by a harsh and unforgiving environment.
If you ask me, this is what the writers were drawing inspiration from when they came up with this.
>>46547968
>she pauses in the middle of a speech when you make her cum.
>>46547711
>>46547919
>>46547968
>>46548113I can't stop
>>46547711
>Oh, hello there Anon. Do you know why I called you up?
>Yes. That's right. You're due for a performance review.
>Oh now, don't fret. I'll make sure to go easy on you. But don't let anyone know that I said that!
>Oh, I just dropped my pen. Could you get it for me?
>Yes.... That's right... Bend over...
>>46540272
From the AD&D 1e fiend folio
>>46541444
IS there ever a stupid D&D thing that can't be blamed on Salvatore?
>>46549056
Alignments?
>>46549061
Alignments at their core were fine. People who refuse to accept that they were never supposed to be more than two quick buzzwords are the problem.
>>46549120
Srsly. Alignment was a descriptor, like hair color, and it worked early on because a lot of characters are actually caricatures. The more mechanical it became, the more contentious it got, until later editions seem to lean toward, "Fuck it, have alignments or don't. Whatever."
>>46544246
In fairness the Pathfinder setting's Drow are much less weird kinky assholes that get off on their children having death battles in the womb, and more just...kinda logically evil?
Cause let's face it, if our planet got hit by a fucking space rock because Cthulhu-esque shit squirds got annoyed at humans, and like a sect of hippies had to rebuild their entire society underground and go through years and years of medieval style noble house infighting and corruption due to some god fucked with their souls, after their smarter hippy friends fled for the moon or something...I'd think they'd be pretty pissed off and hate everyone too once the earth managed to be recovered and back to normal?
>>46544500
Pathfinder doesn't actually have this, their drow are just evil because of some god shitting out spooky darkness radiation. Not a lot of societal building or lore on Drow in Pathfinder besides political wrestling.
>>46545933
Go home and take your fifty fucking elves that shouldn't be elves with you, Elder Scrolls fag.
>>46549341
>fifty fucking elves
Pot meet kettle.
>>46549056
Ed Greenwood did Elminster...
>>46550009
this.
Salvatore is responsible for everything wrong with male drow, and Ed Greenwood is responsible for everything wrong with female drow. Salvatore at least made the (failed) attempt to write something good, while Greenwood was, is and has always been a filthy old man trying to shoehorn his fetishes into everything. Forgotten Realms is quite literally Ed Greenwood's Magical Realm.
>>46544268
What the fuck am I reading?
They discovered second wave feminist theory.
>>46549056
>Blaming "literally" the only Forgotten Realms author who's written anything memorable, with the exception of a couple of Waterdeep books, for any systematic problems with D&D
Why even?
Sup guys I heard you were talking about drow
>>46551721
i really wish there were more than just 2 pictures of 80's aerobics drow
