What would win in a fight between a Baneblade and a Scorpion? Assume equally competent crew.
Scorpion's largest armament is a 90mm cannon. I'm not sure it would even pierce the Baneblade's armor.
Baneblade. W40k materials tech >>> halos. Hell the Scorpions' weapons might just bounce off of it.
>>46537065
Comparing Halo to 40K is a waste of time and I don't see why people keep doing it.
>>46537065
The Scorpion is a shit tank even by modern standards, and the technology in the Halo Universe is fucking wack as hell.
Whether it's the fact that the UNSC still uses basically modern fire arms, the fact that the Spartan's capabilities vary almost more than Space Marine's in lore, or the fact that both factions are ludicrously strong in space combat despite the rest of the crippled technology.
>>46537065
this would loose even vs a chimera...
>>46537134
Exactly. Not only is it impossible to really get a good idea of how strong anything is relative to each other since both of their crunch deviates from fluff significantly, the Halo universe's tech basically goes like this:
>humans go to spess, are bretty gud at fightan after long unification wars throughout the Sol system
>have long period of peace (like multiple centuries)
>rebels in late 2400s give humans a chance to learn to fight again
>finally get back to decent combat ability, still only a little past modern when it comes to footslogging it (aside from Spartans), sometimes even worse than modern
>see designs of Warthog and Scorpion
and the Covenant still get dunked on the ground by people most of the time, it's just that it doesn't matter since the ground invasion is essentially just an Elite circlejerk most of the time and they just glass shit anyways.
Yet the space tech on both sides by Halo 5 could trash 40k. So clearly there's wide and inconsistent levels of ability on all sides, on all fronts. No use comparing.
>>46537239
>trash 40k
Nigger, you don't know what you are talking about
>>46537360
>Visually aimed combustion powered cannons.
Naw, 40k spacecraft are literally retarded and couldn't threaten any competent force.
To save space, is there any setting that beats out 40k?
40k is so obviously made to facilitate power level over 9000 and rule of cool that I don't think any setting really tops it.
>>46537428
>muh ergonomic halo designs
>>>/v/
Well, the scorpion is a tank small enough for a single dude to pilot it.
The Baneblade is a super-heavy tank designed to slug it out with other super heavy tanks or evaporate smaller tanks.
This doesn't seem like a fair fight just due to weight clases.
>>46537488
Even a predator/leman russ seem unfair
>Becuz side siphons
>>46537452
There is always the Culture. But that's a cop out.
Not really any others that I know of. I think in some respects certain stuff in Mass Effect is head and shoulders above 40k. Small arms and armor specifically. But the ships aren't really comparable for a variety of reasons.
Eclipse Phase has some things that are 1 to 1 better than 40k stuff. But it lacks scale. Except the TITANs because they operate on Clarke's Third Law. That can probably be said of a lot of science fiction settings though.
The Forerunners from Halo are a weird example though, because they are so variously OP and completely useless.
>>46537452
There's plenty of anime just as ridiculous as 40K. TTGL tech is literally powered by emotion and can evolve and create matter with no limit. Literally no limit - if you get enough people with hot blood focused on one thing you can create a mech that's big enough to hold the Big Bang in its hands.
>>46537512
Ceph from Crysis franchise?
They are pretty bitchin'
>>46537512
Honestly with the Forerunners' tech the Flood should never have been an issue.
>>46537527
Well yeah, but they are never explored in any meaningful way. Not to mention the fact that it's a weird rock paper scissors thing there. The Nanosuit is pretty meh by 40k standards, but it's the only thing that beats the Ceph. The Ceph are Necron tier though.
>>46537537
Exactly. Even in Halo: CE it struck me as pretty weird that they could build the Halo Arrays but couldn't figure something else out other than blow up reality.
Though once it's explained how powerful the Flood can get? I kinda understand it.
>>46537512
>small arms and armor
Lasguns would ignore the shielding tech of ME.
>>46537583
That's not true.
There are plenty of directed energy weapons in ME that are stopped by kinetic shields.
>>46537608
As I recall, they weren't true energy weapons.
>>46537452
Pretty much all of them. If your spacecraft uses guns aimed and fired by hand it's a joke, not a weapon.
>>46537583
Lasguns would do no damage to the ceramic coating of hard suits. Lasers, in general, a retarded fucking weapons for small arms.
>>46537617
What? You mean the gun that shoots lightning? Or the plasma shotgun? Or the flame throwers?
>>46537428
It really doesn't matter what it's armed with if anything you toss at it besides a whole broadside is absorbed by void shields.
Where Halo ships have the advantage is in risk free FTL travel.
>>46537452
Pretty much anything with outright silly power levels, ie Heart of Gold turns an Emperor class battleship into a pot of boiled cabbage because it's not impossible just incredibly improbable.
>>46537663
This shit depends on setting.
Pulling it out does not make you look smart.
>It's a fucking retarded argument
>>46537065
40k is leagues ahead of Halo in tech. This is like a Matilda fighting a Challenger. Also Scorpion is just a shitty design for a tank.
>>46537608
Codex for ME1 says "shields don't stop energy weapons, only physical objects"
Then ME2 energy weapons happened, and they ignored that little bit, while the codex writers had to jump through hoops to bullshit the science of why these energy weapons ain't REAL energy weapons
>>46537655
To be fair those are plasma based weapons(fire and lightning are plasma) and thus have an actual physical component whereas a laser is just photons.
>>46537065
Ignoring tech differences, isn't a Scorpion like a normal-sized Tank, while a Baneblade is some ridiculously sized super-tank?
I don't care how good the Scorpion is, it's not going to take out a tank five times its size in a straight fight.
>>46537707
>>46537685
It's really down to whoever has better magic, because it's both from fantasy settings. There's no objective way to answer the question when the settings have no consistent rules or real internal logic.
>>46537663
The Mass Accelerator cannon on the Orbital installations around Earth have 52gt weapons. Which could cripple any ship in the 40k universe from far outside of their range. The Halo universe is capable of theoretically ludicrous weapons, but the humans are largely limited by the problems of cost and construction time.
>>46537761
eh Shermans did fine against tigers. not the same scale but its not impossible.
Tangenital question.
Could a single Necron Overlord destroy a single Baneblade? Fluff wise.
>>46537777
citation needed. Halo space weapon yields vary from author to author and game to game. If you want to claim that they have 52 gt mass drivers while still using nuclear missiles and being massively more advanced than modern earth you are going to have to show multiple instances of that.
>>46537779
Dude unless the Scorpion can outcompete their Tau equivalent, the hammerhead. I find it hard to see your point.
>>46537777
And likewise, Imperial ships can just warp next to those installations and board/rape them with broadsides.
It all depends on the fucking setting.
>>46537796
depends on the Overlord. I'm 99% sure a named character could do it.
>>46537777
The Halo universe had pretty poor quality control on its numbers early on, leading to inconsistencies and blatant idiocies like the 52 gigaton cannons. This mostly comes from the issue that Halo's early novel writers were video game fans and Bungie staff, not serious science fiction writers.
The Super MAC has the power to punch entirely through a covenant capital ship's shields and hull, then keep going and kill another ship behind the first. However, this doesn't begin to require the 50 gigaton yield that was calculated from one set of figures. A multi-megaton yield would be fine.
>>46537779
The Baneblade has a troop-transport variant that carries 60 men while still having a crew and guns.
The size difference is massive.
They might get lucky, or the crew might outsmart them, but in the strict question of 'who would win in a fight' the winner is the tank that can fit multiple of the smaller tank inside of it.
>>46537810
Fall of Reach. The Orbital Stations fire 3000 ton slugs at 4% speed of light, or about 12,000 km/h. I don't believe it's ever been contradicted before, and they're hilarious overkill even in setting. They can punch through 2 Covenant capital ships and cripple a third.
>>46537827
Probably just bust open a hatch and kill the crew inside.
>>46537065
The Scorpion would be like a scout tank in 40k considering it can be airdropped.
>>46537141
Wait, wait, wait, are you attempting to apply modern standards to the debate?
Because I've got some bad news for you.,,,
40k tanks have regular steel armor shittier than what we had in WWII. So idk.
>>46537846
that's just retarded. But then again 40k has shit like that.
>>46537883
The Scoprion is, at best, going to be Predator/Leman Russ tier. It's a standard battle tank.
Even if we assume the Scorpion is that good, that's still a fraction of what the Baneblade is doing.
>>46537874
Yeah that was my thought.
>>46537898
What? Since when?
>>46537558
How powerful can they get?
>>46537846
The issue with this being that those guns are supposedly powered by microwave power transmission from groundside fusion plants. The problem with this idea is twofold. First, that a microwave beam carrying that much power would melt the power receptors on the space station into slag, and the entire rest of the space station along with it, from even a tiny amount of inefficiency. We know the UNSC doesn't have perfect transmission because in the very same book, when discussing early marks of Mjolnir, Halsey refers to "inefficient broadcast power"
The second issue is that the same microwave beams used to power the stations would be more effective weapons than the Super MACs themselves.
It's commonly assumed that the actual number was .04% lightspeed rather than 4%; that gives much less crazy yields. The "4% lightspeed" figure came from a low ranking navy tech talking, not the narration or a reliable source, so it's entirely possible he had no idea what he was talking about.
>>46537898
Adamantine is magical space metal whose properties vary according to the needs of the author/rolls of dice.
>>46537452
So, a Commander from Supreme Commander lands on a planet.
In about three minutes, they are capable of taking on an Imperial Guard regiment.
In five, they can defeat a Space Marine Chapter
In 10, they could defeat a Titan
In 15, they could defeat every single Space Marine Chapter at the same time.
In 30, they could hold an entire Ork Waagh off, and defeat it eventually.
In an hour, every single Tyranid Hive Fleet could descend on the planet and the same time and all you'd get is a lot of dead nids.
And this is assuming the planet they land on is resource poor.
And let's not even talk about Total Annihilation.
>>46537916
galactic scale space magic bullshit.
>>46537777
>Which could cripple any ship in the 40k universe from far outside of their range.
>>46537898
Nope futuristic material
>>46537905
>This
>>46537926
Honestly I kind of thought Total Annihilation was on a lower power scale than SC. Am I just wrong?
Wait, are we posting about how 40k stuff is hilariously underpowered and shitty beyond all belief?
Because boy, do I have an image for everyone!
>>46537917
To the point where it's differen't materials based on printing.
Currently Lemen Russ's are made with Plasteel. In 4th they were made of regular steel of a lower thickness than modern tank armor.
It'll probably be different in another edition as well.
Also, don't pull out "but the technology doesn't make sense" when 40k is being talked about.
>>46537926
>what is gameplay and story segregation
>>46537944
>believing the numbers of britbong nogunz
>>46537428
40k dose over the top stupid shit very well and makes it look good.
I remember seeing a pic somewhere of a imperial battleships (or whatever) main cannon. after the thing was shot it had to be pulled back by 100's of slaves to be reloaded.
Retarded and over the top but god damn it they pulled it off.
>>46537065
Better question, who would win in a fight between a Scorpion and the 10 man tank crew of a Baneblade?
>>46537913
>What? Since when
Not that anon but I think he's referring to some early 40k books that say shit like a Leman Russ' armour is only 40mm thick of homogeneous steel.
>>46537938
you are.
>>46537961
Oh no man, there is no gameplay and story segregation in SC or TA. Both games are specifically in real time.
>>46537938
TA's still a bit stronger, but you have to remember, that TA is essentially about both factions being reduced to killing each other with rocks because that's all that's left.
>>46537946
Don't they constantly talk about how the Russ design is very adaptable and easy to make out of local materials on most planets, which is why the Russ is used throughout the galaxy?
It seems pretty likely that Russ' from different planets can be made of different metals and have wildly different performances, even if this isn't represented in 40k's rules.
>>46537983
>Inb4 Lascannons/Spartan lasers, heavy bolters, autocannons, Plasma guns and meltas
>>46537983
Depends on what the baneblade crew is allowed to take from the baneblade's storage.
If they got any sort of plasma gun or heavy weapon, the Scorpion is fucked if it doesn't get the first shot in.
>>46537938
Isn't there a unit in Total Annihilation that can take like five nukes directly to the face?
>>46537961
Except Supreme Commander has no gameplay and story segregation
>>46537944
>its slower than 22 short
...
>>46537983
The ones with faith in the Emperor.
>>46538005
My favorite part is the weight.
It shoots fucking pellets, and yet it weighs as much as a Deagle.
Why the fuck does it need to weigh that much?
What the fuck does it only have a six round mag? Is there not enough space for the bullets or something?
What the fuck is it even made of?
>>46537988
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Leman_Russ_Battle_Tank
>Superstructure: 180mm
>Hull: 150mm
>Gun Mantlet: 100mm
>Turret: 200mm
>>46537975
But the thing is, the fucking book was published in 2008.
Fucking 2008. They could look the fucking numbers up.
And I feel like they did for some of them, because some of the other stats are essentially acceptable, if not minorly tweaked modern day stats.
>>46538000
>assume an RTS is accurate to its own fluff for the sake of jerking off as hard as possible
Up next, a single building can produce entire chapters of space marines.
>>46538033
And that dose not account for the added effect a slope gives it.
That however will vary if you take a stock russ, punisher or one of the other variants.
>>46538022
Whenever I see blatantly dumb stuff like that, I just assume they're using it wrong and they forgot how to really use it after the golden age of technology. Alternately, that whatever in-lore database they keep their numbers in is corrupted and no one fixes it because that would be super heresy.
>>46538066
The entire concept of the game is that you can send a single commander onto a planet and half an hour later he's built an entire army for himself.
Shit, the whole fucking point of TA was that endless, total war waged so long and so big was because even a single commander, given a couple days, could have built an army capable of overwhelming anyone. Neither side could possibly declare themselves a winner until they'd killed every single enemy commander, because even one could keep the war going forever.
>>46538060
look its just better if you assume 90% of the technical specs in expanded universe content for franchises was written in universe by idiots.
>>46537452
40k gets by on three things.
First, it is rife with made-up materials that are inconsistent in their properties. Most sci-fi settings have some kind of plotonium that has some vaguely defined properties and limitations, but 40k has like twenty with really no defined properties. Space Marines sometimes take tank shells to the face, and sometimes bugs from space carve them open like tin cans. This basically ensures that any debate of "which setting would win" will inevitably get sucked into a quagmire of made-up numbers from which there is no escape.
Second, it is very large. In most sci-fi, humans inhabit some small percentage of the Milky Way. The Imperium inhabits the majority of it.
Third, the Warp. Often also cited as a hindrance, the Warp is also a boon to 40k because it is also very poorly defined in what it can and can't do, and thus it also inevitably leads to endless bickering on whether or not Kirk would be corrupted by Slaneesh.
If we endeavor to ignore the first and third point, we find that 40k is a setting where chainsaws are considered viable weapons, spaceships use broadsides, and the secret to the power of the Space Marine's bolter is "the bullets explode." I'd say, in most cases, 40k's best hope is a draw as their opponent can't blow it up fast enough due to it's galling size.
>>46538089
I like that.
>>46537065
Ignore the 40ktards who don't even know their own setting. Scorpion would outrange the Baneblade, and the Baneblade only has...what did they say? 300mm RHA armor? APSD or HEAT from a 90mm cannon would go through that with no real problem.
But if the Baneblade got the drop on the Scorpion? Dead Scorp.
So it'd be like any other face-off between tanks, whoever gets the first hit is the one most likely to win.
TL;DR: could have used google for a minute and not made a shit thread.
>>46537141
You mean how stubbers and autoguns are also basically modern firearms, but are still widely used in 40k...?
>going through Halo lore
>a species exists that can alter the fabric of space itself
>they literally created the species of the Milky Way
>they created the flood accidentally
>then doomed the galaxy to spite the forerunners
>>46538170
>Widely used
>Used by chaos militia trash and underhive gangbangers instead of professional armies
Real men use lasguns.
>>46538159
We only know the thickness of the armor not the actual protective qualities. For all we know 1mm of adamantium could provide 500mm of RHAe
>>46538089
This sounds pretty true to the setting.
>>46538180
I remember when a friend explained Halo lore to me. I facepalmed so hard.
>>46538159
Baneblades have feats for tanking a point blank MOAB that sent it flying 100 feet into the air without the crew even being concussed. Nobody takes the Forge World stats seriously because they don't reflect ANY of the fluff for vehicles in 40k. Specifically on how they're retardedly durable and can tank triple digit megajoule energy weapons that vaporize entire bunkers (meltaguns).
The Scorpion is completely fucked.
40k would beat everything by far
>>46537065
The Scorpion if Master Chief is piloting it, because hurr durr plot armor. The whole point of 40k's grimderpiness is that anyone can die at any time, even the God Emperor of Mankind is about to die for good.
>>46538159
Depends on the Baneblade variant. Vanilla, yes, but a Shadowsword would absolutely rape the fuck out of all the Scorpions you could care to add.
Given that they can use an Auspex which is not restricted to LOS firing solutions, and they have a gun that can literally shoot through fortifications . . . . . .
The downside is that the tank has to stop and disengage it's main engine to fire. So, 1v1 the Scorpion has no chance in hell, but if you could keep throwing Scorpions at it then it wouldn't be able to run away and you could cover it in dead tanks.
Also, it's powered by the tortured souls of murdered psykers for that extra 40k goodness.
Jesus fuck this setting is retarded.
>>46538256
The Vanilla Baneblade would laugh off the Scorpion's 90mm cannon. There's nothing the Scorpion can do to even damage it as Baneblades have survived far, faaaar worse. Like point blank MOABs.
>>46538256
I see they went to the rusty venture school of engineering.
>>46538277
MOAB =/= penetration.
The concern would be the 90mm shell piercing through and detonating inside the tank.
I was also being pretty generous.
>>46538285
I love the setting, I won't lie.
But if you're coming into expecting reasonable or consistent power levels in the fluff, then you're not getting it. It's pretty much straight up "rule of cool" here.
So I can say confidently that a Scorpion could take on a Baneblade if it was thematically appropriate and magic intervened.
>>46538248
>The whole point of 40k's grimderpiness is that anyone can die at any time
Unless they are a named character in a codex.
>>46538388
Unless they are Ultra marines
>>46538330
It got hit by a fucking nuke and was launched a hundred feet through the air without issue.
90mm shell ain't doing shit. Especially when Leman Russes use ~150mm-160mm shells and they just scratch the paint on a baneblade.
>>46538139
It's 40K vs other setting, not Imperium of Man vs other setting. Even if they can defeat them they still have shit like the chaos gods and kroot and tyranids.
>>46537239
Do you know anything about halo? Have you even played half of one game? Let's not even talk about the books and vedios. GTFO learn to lore.
>>46537926
Engineering units from Supereme Commander/Total Annihilation are terrifying, ignore the the whole "can build planetary scale military infrastructure in seconds" thing for a moment and consider how engineering units set to harvest free resources act when they encounter anything organic. They instantly disassemble them into raw resources. Trees, animals, giant monsters, just gone as soon as they get anywhere near the engineering unit.
If a commander ignored one of those engineering units in an environment where people or soldiers still existed it'd happily "eat" entire armies for the paltry resources they had in them. Cities in it's path would be erased. And it's not like even the lowly engineering unit can be taken down easily by "low tech" forces, it's got that weird single atom stretched across entire hull super-tech armor that continues to function after being hit multiple times by 200mm plasma cannons until it catastrophically fails and the whole thing fuses into one solid hunk of metal.
Would a comander even notice mass infantry attacks? Purely organic forces like tyranids? I didn't notice those dinosaurs until my 2nd playthrough.
>>46538480
sorry for pointing out the 40k fan-wankery but tau also use railguns. so do scorpions. its not about the SIZE of the shot, its about the speed
(force = mass x (speed ^2))
tau hammerheads can gut baneblades in a few shots. so so can scorpions. problem is that the scorpion cant take hits worth a damn so it will probably not survive longer that a few seconds to the baneblades return fire. ESPECIALLY if there is a machine spirit piloting the damn thing (for those are basicly AI and i remember cortana kicking all kinds of ass, an a lot of machine spirit as kicking in 40k fluff)
>>46538170
>using 40K as any sort of metric on which to judge the progress of technology in a sci-fi setting
As far as Imperial fluff is concerned, 40K is "hey let's WW1-2 again but in space!" Because this franchise is written by Brits, and the GREAT WARS were the most interesting thing involving their country in the past century.
>>46538180
>>46538206
I don't see how ANYONE is still paying attention after 343 took control of a series that delivered its tone and backstory through little hints and glimpses, and decided to move the plot forward by explaining every goddamn detail and making up random bullshit when they ran out.
>>46538696
>but tau also use railguns. so do scorpions.
The M808B Scorpion battle tank is armed with a 90mm smoothbore cannon you dolt. That means it fires a shell using a chemical propellant.
It's like asking if a WW2 Japanese Tankette would stand a chance against a modern Abrams tank.
The Baneblade is WAY bigger and way more heavily armed and amoured. The Scorpion is a fucking light tank even by modern standards. The Baneblade could just as well run the Scorpion tank if it so wished.
>>46538191
Heavy stubbers are heavily used by the IG, which I fucking love.
I don't give a fuck, the use of fiddy cal brownings makes any space setting better.
>>46538856
>it is bigger
>therefore it is better
>and could also just run over everything
Remind me what the top speed on a Baneblade is again?
>>46538892
Hasn't it only gone through one or two changes since its use?
>>46538896
25 kph to the Scorpion's 97, but the Scorp still can't scratch the damn thing.
I guess the Scorpion could win though technicality by running away or something.
>>46538856
>The Scorpion is a fucking light tank even by modern standards.
Worse. It's a MBT armed like a light tank. Fucker weighs 66 tons.
>>46538896
Scorpion is slow as fuck too. Even if we assume the Scorpion's maingun can penetrate the BB's armour, the sheer size of the BB will mean the Scorpion will have to land a whole load of shots in order to reliably take out the BB. The thing has fucking stories.
On top of that the BB has at least two lascannons, potentially four, several heavy bolters, one fuck off huge maingun with a coaxial autocannon, and a hull mounted demolisher.
>>46538933
Maybe it could get a lucky shot straight in the barrel of the demolisher cannon since the thing is so damn wide.
>>46538696
The Scorpion is armed with a 90mm cannon firing shells worse than those in fucking WWII you retard. They aren't even HEAT or shit. The Scorpion just uses solid slugs.
>>46537065
Hmm, so on one side, we have a 300+ tonne super-heavy with a main cannon that fires meter wide,rocket assisted shells, a weapon designed for breaking through fortress walls that has a recoil so powerful it can send lesser tanks rolling over if fired on the move, two las-weapons capable of punching through most tank armour and 7 different solid ammo guns, 6 of which shoot .75 caliber mass-react shells, which can turn space marines into a red mist. And on the other side, we have a 66 tonne tank that doesn't have a fully closed cockpit, a main gun that shoots 90mm rounds and a 7.62 ap rounds. Well it is certainly a tough one.
>>46539164
It might be actually easier to make comparisons to the Predator/malcador/Leman Russ makes than a fucking super-heavy
>>46537452
Schlock Mercenary.
Absolute instantaneous teleport anywhere in the galaxy is a basic ship capability. Comms are absolute instant too.
Easy acceleration to solid fractions of lightspeed.
Reactors don't run out of fuel.
Gravitic manipulation for everything, fraction-c warheads and shields that block them.
If your ship is big enough, you can just crush smaller ones into miniature black holes and eat them for fuel.
Although in pure body size, warhammer probably has bigger ships, they are blown out of the water on energy capabilities.
>>46538924
Something like that yeah, they also made a slightly changed version with a slightly different cooling system for door gunners to better utilize the wind.
>>46537926
>Loses to a single orbital bombardment
SC doesn't really have any space combat, does it?
this isn't a good comparison. shit I don't even think the scorpion would stand up against modern armor in a one to one brawl - but hear me out, I don't think its supposed to.
about the only thing the scorp has going for it is that it can be carried and dropped off by a single pelican troop shuttle - which can also transport a squad of tooled up marines, even a spartan. Airlift capability like that for any tank is pretty sweet (as well as being practically unheard of today, imagine a V-22 osprey or a UH-60 dropping off... not even an abrams, like a bradley or something on command), and probably goes far to explain why the armor is so lacking, and the armament is so small - it has to be able to be air-dropped.
A baneblade would trash a single Scorpion like it was nothing - but for the same logistic footprint, you could probably have 5-6 scorpions, their pelicans, and accompanied marine squads for a single baneblade, and that, I think, is the more interesting fight.
pic unrelated
>>46539562
Dude the imperium does the same shit but on a totally different scale
>Fucking Titans
>>46539609
agreed, and we all know this, but I guess more what I'm trying to say is that if this make believe fantasy battle is going to be something worth considering, the scorpion has to be given some handicaps to make it interesting. just food for thought.
>>46539655
not handicaps, I meant advantages. derp
>>46539512
It's not featured in the game but it's hinted at. We see multiple instances of starships and space fighters in cinematics.
The space based quantum gate network is specifically designed to allow large spaceships to move around.
And let's not forgot, Black Sun is definitely space based weaponry in the sense that Starkiller Base is a space weapon.
>>46537428
>Visually aimed
People in 40k must have really, really fucking good eyes. Those 'visually aimed cannons' engage from tens thousands of kilometres away you spoon. It's WWII battleship combat in space.
>>46539718
Machine Spirits!
>>46537961
The creators said that there isn't any segregation. The gameplay is canon.
Look, Scorpions are cool and all, but you can walk up to ones vent with the shittiest weapon in the game and completely fuck it up.
Not to mention it has no EMP shielding. I always imagined that Halo vehicles are just meant for speed lore wise and that is it. The blitzkrieg of mass produced scorpions would do amazingly well against other light vehicles and infantry, but that's about it. Still fun to talk about though, especially considering the main thing the UNSC has that could kill a space marine in one shot is Gauss.
>>46539746
Heroic gameplay is canon, you mean.
>>46539765
Until the second trilogy, the only gauss weapons the UNSC had on a infantry level was vehicle mounted, and what they have now has an obscene prep time.
As for OP, a scorpion would get rocked. It's about half the size of a baneblade and has a percentage of a baneblade's armament.
Why is the comparison between the biggest tracked vehicle regularly fielded by the IG, dwarfed only by the Leviathan, and a Halo mbt? They aren't even in the same class category.
>>46538688
Yea, I always thought it was wierd how nobody ever weaponized that. Could have made for an interesting Experimental Resource Collector or somesuch. Then again, it might simply never have occurred to anyone, or the implications kept them from it.
>>46539718
Considering that they score hits with macro cannons against maneuvering opponents at those ranges they probably have absurdly effective fire control systems.
>>46537777
It's magnetic accelerator cannon tard.
>>46539299
>Reactors don't run out of fuel.
Technically you -can- run an annihilation reactor out of fuel. It turns any matter into energy and most people store fuel as nutorinum in order to maximize the amount of fuel stored in one place..
But the only time people worry about fuel is if they are, for example, keeping another ship from crushing them into subatomic particles. The other time you worry about it is if something happens to the fields keeping your nutorinum compressed, because without them it evaporates, a word somewhat to gentle for "violent enough to turn you and everything nearby into vapor racing away from this point at .2c
>>46539825
Yeah, I meant in general usage, not getting roughed over.
>>46539810
In 40k basically everyone uses ships that are kilometres long and therefore can't dodge so good. From playing Battlefleet Gothic, 40k space combat is basically WWII naval combat in space in pretty much every way.
>>46539803
Nanolathe is a bit weak sauce when others are shooting tactical nukes and quantum effect cannons. Some fighting units in the game are actually quipped with a small nanolathe, the Aeon's assault bot is a particularly notable example. If you select a group of them to guard an area they actually move around and hoover up all the resources around and repair each other.
The only thing that the UNSC would have going for it, would be that if it could survive long enough, it could adapt its technology to better handle the threat.
>>46537452
Star wars. A star destroyer can glass a planet without planetary shields in 24 hours. And unlike exterminatus weapons, that's using the normal turbolaser batteries on the ship, which implies some absurd energy output. FTL is very reliable and fast, crossing the galaxy (which is about 5 times the size of the milky way) in about a week.
Not to mention the obvious advantage of "not being completely fucking retarded in engineering and tactics".
>>46539840
Kilometre long isnt very big in space when you you are shooting at something between 45.00 km (Rogue trader) and 450.000 km's away (Battlefleet gothic). Being able to, at that range, land with a solid 33% of fired shots (Bfg gunnery table, abeam and long range) against an opponent who is actively attempting to not get shot is no mean feat at all.
>>46539850
Yea, good ol' Harbies MK IV. Love the bastards, altho why would you post a picture from that sequel that they never made?
Never Made.
>>46539888
*Rogue trader 45.000 km. Mea culpa
>>46539886
in their own galaxy.
And they fight at tiny ass ranges compared to 40k combat.
>>46539886
Short version: Star wars ftl is a shit without having extensively mapped space first.
Star wars ship fight at point blank ranges.
Star wars ship explode at a moments notice (That might actually be in favour of their guns being decent)
Do remember, Exterminatus are extreme and highly specialized weapons. You dont employ the Lifeater virus or cyclonic torpedoes because they are the only way to pummel a planet, you do it because its faster, simpler and cheaper then having your ships sit in orbit and lob ordnance for a while.
What would be interesting, really, is the comparison between the fucking immense star fighters the Imperium makes use of, and the very piddly ones in star wars.
>>46538533
Not a single thing in his post implies the horrible inconsistancy is imperium-only. 40k is less internally consistent than star trek, and that literally changes shit between episodes for the plot. 40k is fucking horrible for Internet nerd fights because one guy can claim the land raider is still some sort of invincible god-tank and another can point out that it's armor is about half the effective thickness of a M1A1 abrams, AND BOTH ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT. Arguing over 40k vs other universes is like trying to make a castle out of the ocean.
>>46539896
Hey at least I didn't post pictures fromPlanetary Annihilation
>>46539840
Because of the extreme ranges involved a kilometer is not actually a very big target and even very minor maneuvers will induce properly aimed shots to miss.
Also 40k space combat isn't like world war two naval combat at all. The only similarity is that many ships prefer to fight with their sides pointed at the enemy.
>>46537944
>posting homemade ganger pistols as proof of 40k tech level
>>46537988
People quoting that shit don't understand how RHA works
Same fuckin shit all over again.
Just a reminder that no one 'wins' an internet argument.
>>46538060
That's a pretty high cyclic fire rate.
>>46537141
lazer guns are easy to use in space
they are harder to use in atmosphere
modern missiles are extremely effective in space
not so effective when there is no risk of explosive decompression
>>46540075
>explosive decompression
I wish this meme would end.
>>46540080
>I wish this meme would end.
What meme? Not everyone on a 40k ship is going to be a fucking spessmureen who can survive complete depressurization of a section of the ship + not be thrown out of the hole.
>>46537452
Off the top of my head?
The Culture
The Xeelee Sequence
Dr. Who
Star Ruler
There are others, but 40k is really around the middle in terms of power when it comes to sci-fi.
>>46540160
Dr Who is totally incoherent, you shouldn't really include that in this kind of thing.
This is a retarded comparison. Even a modern Abrams would be able to kill a Scorpion, the fucking thing can be destroyed by a chump with a normal rifle and a few reloads of ammo assuming they know where to aim.
>>46540207
I've personally never watched it, I just know it involves time travel and a race of beings that could destroy the galaxy in a heartbeat if they wanted to, both of which constitute things that would beat 40k.
>>46537105
Except for FTL drives that don't risk murdering the crew constantly.
>>46540207
>Dr Who is totally incoherent, you shouldn't really include that in this kind of thing.
Why are we discussing 40k then?
>>46537938
someone calculated that to deplete a milky way size galaxy of 99% of resources (strip mining entire planets) they would need to strip mine of resources a planet every 1.2 seconds.
They are basically Von Neumann madness.
CORE homeworld is a matrioshka brain style dyson sphere.
They have a galaxy imploding bomb for christ sake.
Their warships were using D-cannons that are mounted on commanders.
They also have interplanetary teleportation.
The only reason it seems low scale, its because their Galaxy is devoided of resources, and both forces basically canibalised themselves for mass. You take the role of a kind of "special ops" Commander doing a series or 25 mission in order to push for victory away from the main frontlines.
And in the expansion after we learn of galaxy imploding bomb, we also learn that both sides took contingencies to secure their survival. So all it would do is to reset the galaxy, just so they could do more warefare.
TA makes 40k look like amateurs with the all "In the dark future there is only war" thing
>>46540234
THERE IS NO RISK
THE EMPEROR WILL PROTECT YOU
>>46540267
>he wasn't on the Occurrence Border
LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT GELLAR FIELDS
>>46537926
>In an hour, every single Tyranid Hive Fleet could descend on the planet and the same time and all you'd get is a lot of dead nids.
Tyranids would actually not even be considered a danger, they would be a blessing
>Holy kek! Look at all that organic matter falling from space!
>Cues a billion of engineering droids
>In a week all Tyranids ever, are turned into mass and re-used
>>46540160
The Concordiat of Man would be a good one
>>46538159
>would outrange the Baneblade
Why? TT ranges are not canon.
The co-axial weapon on the Baneblade is roughly equivalent to the primary weapon on a Scorpion.
This is a retarded comparison.
>hurr lets compare a small single man light tank to a fucking superheavy unit
That's like saying "who wins, a single Imperial Guard Sentinel OR a fucking Covenant Scarab"
>>46540316
>"who wins, a single Imperial Guard Sentinel OR a fucking Covenant Scarab"
You'd still get 40kids arguing for the Sentinel.
>>46540291
In SC2 there was a dinosaur that could tank 11 megalits for a minute, which actually makes him stronger than any of the experimental units.
>>46540316
I'd rather see who'd win between a Fallen walker tank and its 40k equivalent, whatever it may be.
>>46540343
kek
SC2 is kind of retarded fanwanking and murded of the good canon from SC and BW tbqh
>>46540343
What does StarCraft II have to do with this?There was no sequel there was no sequel there was no sequel if I say that enough it will be true there was no sequel there was no sequel
>>46540343
Shhhh, they never made SC2
NEVER MADE
>>46537777
Fun fact: the microwave transmission beam from the planet used to power the SuperMAC on that station would actually make a better weapon than the station itself.
>>46540425
There was a sequel you ninny, acceptance is the first step in murdering those responsible.
>>46540447
Fun fact: Writers don't know things.
>>46540425
>>46540435
Are you me?
>>46540449
Stop lying your lying liar!
>>46537452
Strike Legion
Their basic Imperial Guardsmen equivalent are tougher than Space Marines, and PC characters are orders of magnitude more dangerous than those.
Planet busting grenades and surface-to-orbit handguns, beam swords that can kill battleships, battleships that can accidentally planets, Mastery powers that can and have erased solar systems and can pull conceptual bullshit that even 40k shies away from.
It took 40k and a dozen other things and threw them all together.
>>46540447
microwave beam isn't going to punch through shields
>>46540115
I think he assumed you meant "explosive decompression" as "a person exposed to vacuum explodes", like in shitty sci-fi, rather than to mean "the gas within a pressurized craft will effectively explode outward if breached, carrying everybody inside with it."
>>46537944
>>46538033
>>46538060
Don't take the bait people.
>>46540524
What is? I mean, do the shields block out light, sound and air as well? What does get through and what doesn't?
>>46540226
Even old-who displays the capabilities of the aliens somewhat inconsistently because of differing writers and because it often depicts events happening many thousands of years apart. Hence you have things like the Daleks being originally restricted to a single city on their homeworld to being an emerging power and later a galactic threat. It should be noted however that the original dalek empire is actually defeated via biological warfare by a rarely mentioned race of androids.
Then nu-who happened and any sense of continuity was thrown out the window and then when Russell T Davies left all sense of that particular continuity got thrown out of the window and now the capabilities of all of the badguys is essentially arbitrary and determined entirely on an episode by episode basis.
Tech manuals are dumb and should be mostly ignored, I remember when the official halo guide said MAC cannons accelerated their giant projectiles to half the speed of light,
>>46540680
>block out light
they block lasers so i'm assuming it's not too much of a stretch to say that it could block another form of EMR.
a powerful enough beam might start melting shit though.
>>46539512
I dont remember in SC, but in TA there were massive fleets, but in time they got cannibalised for mass.
It's just more cost effective to teleport a single commander to a planet and have him buid his forces there.
In a resource rich enviroment they could get fleets working in days
>>46539964
IsPlanetary Annihilationbad?
>>46540752
Don't the guns use NATO rounds and shit?
>>46540752
>half the speed of light
Sweet jesus.
>>46540833
5.56NATO iirc for the assault rifle, but it's not as shit in the lore as the game too.
>>46540770
They still fail when hit by enough energy, it does not have to be kinetic.
>>46540770
Could it be based on wavelength? So it only blocks certain wavelengths, thus allowing visible light and radio signals to come through. Question is, what are those wavelengths and could it be possible for it to block lasers but not microwaves?
>>46540864
I think the funny part is that they're using NATO rounds some 500 years into the future. Like, does NATO even exist anymore and why are they still insisting on using the same old cartridges. We're already looking into better alternatives today.
I'm surprised there isn't an M1911 being used by some dude.
>>46537065
Scorpions are woefully underequipped by modern tank standards.
Their only hope is to employ some unobtainuium or Adamantine tier armor piercing round shit.
>>46537141
That's because no modern planner would call the Scorpion a tank. At best they would term it something like a High Mobility Light Tank. Although it is relatively poorly armored and poorly armed compared with an MBT, it is very similer to systems like the M551 Sharadin, BMD-1 and FV101 Scorpion, except unlike any of those, it can be deployed organically with air assault units, instead of requiring a cargo plane. It is far better protected against small arms, being completely immune form all angles to 12.7mm and highly resistant to 14.5mm. The Scorpion isn't designed to be the best tank, it is designed to be the best tank you can stick on a Pelican and drop anywhere.
>>46541037
OTOH they apparently consider 7.62x51 an intermediary cartridge, due to cybernetic enhancement being standard for everyone.
>>46541066
Which I think they high placed turret supports, since it allows it to take up hull down positions and pop a round or two before driving off.
It's a shame we don't, even in 2, get to see a proper battle tank, just more drop troop crap.
>>46540740
There's interesting bits of stuff in old-Who lore. Like the conflict between the remnant of the Dalek empire fighting a civil war against Davros' imperial daleks, which he essentially bred from scratch and contain zero Kaled genetic material.
Two factions of time travelling genocidal cyborg tankettes is pretty baller and cold provide a shit ton of story seeds.
But no don't worry about that, something, something Time War.
>>46537452
>To save space, is there any setting that beats out 40k?
There's plenty. 40k is mid tier in terms of power, maybe upper-middle depending on how you look at it.
>>46537065
>Scorpion
That tank where you always killed the driver by shooting him with a dinky pistol while he was seated in the tank.
>Put up a fight against a baneblade
Shiggidy
>>46538634
I've played every game except 5 (watched a playthrough since I can't be arsed to get an xbone) and I've read every book. Fight me.
>>46541233
the setting of Frontier in Space in which the Daleks are meddling D-bags who want everyone to wipe each other out so they don't have to get their plungers dirty is another good one.
Also the master has an AR-15 pistol.
>>46541840
forgot my pic.
>>46541066
Well, that makes sense, considering that Halo takes a lot of motes from the Colonial Marines, which were all about mobile firepower.
>>46537944
>this can kill a demon prince
>>46541066
Well technically the Scorpion being air-mobile has more to do with the Pelican being awesome and less to do with the Scorpion being light and or portable. Marine Ospreys make Pelicans look like pillar men in comparison.
>>46539512
Even ignoring what everyone else has said, it would be trivial for the T3 artillery to shoot into space, and most of their fighters would be space capable anyways, or could be modified to do so.
And the fact that they have enough defenses to survive a bombardment.
>>46542029
How? It doesn't have stats.
>>46540015
Except that gun makes no sense as a homemade weapon either.
Sunday Specials are almost always stripped down to the bare minimums. Even the better built stuff is still not exactly good quality.
Plus, home made weapons tend towards the huge caliber, to make up for their lack of, well, everything else.
Who the fuck scratch builds a fucking BB gun, and then makes it weigh fucking a million pounds?
>>46542162
It's an autopistol used by chaos cultist sergents
>>46537452
EvE online
>>46542270
It's a stubgun, not an autopistol.
>>46542156
The ICBM's are probably useable to target things in orbit as well.
Similar weapons are used to kill capital ships in 40k and Commanders can spam a LOT of them if they have the resources. You could probably convert an entire hives mass into anti orbit nuclear missiles by the time an Imperial ship arrived.
>>46542579
Never forget that SUPCOM battles are the equivalent of 4 guys in a civilian car with facepaint and suppressed SMGs fighting against the local police. Presumably they have far more effective GTS batteries that take days to build and thus are not in the memory of a special forces ACU.
>>46542185
Just repeating the description of the pistol which the guy obviously forgot to post.
>>46542791
My favorite part is where this is a better make and considered a possible sidearm for guardsmen.
I would stat the scorpion along the same lines as an IRL modern tank, albeit slower. Very high armor value, but low hull points, A gun with medium strength but powerful ant-armor special rules.
Scorpian nails the baneblade for a couple hull points before being pounded flat.
>>46537978
The best part is auto loaders exist in the imperium already but that's not grimdark enough
>>46542958
autoloaders are expensive and can break. Something goes wrong and takes out the autoloader, you're fucked for the near future. Something goes wrong and kills the slaves, you clean up the big bits and send in more slaves.
>>46537065
The Scorpion would find itself hard-pressed against an Abrams or a Leman Russ; a Baneblade would laugh at it.
>>46537488
Not knowing the Baneblade is classed as a light battle tankbut thats by dark age of technology standards
>>46542893
I also like the part where the first part of your post is complete bullshit and the second part where you do mental gymnastics to justify your retarded generalization.
>>46537239
>Yet the space tech on both sides by Halo 5 could trash 40k
Human, please.
>>46540226
>it involves time travel and a race of beings that could destroy the galaxy in a heartbeat if they wanted to
like the Necrons?
>>46537452
The first thing that immediately comes to mind is Lensemen.
Star Wars by far reaching second.
>>46543066
If we take Forerunners into account (and I guess we should if we're giving 40k crons and elfdar), then yeah they get fucked. Even just the Covenant have super fast ships that can hit from way longer ranges than any 40k ships.
>>46542270
>being this thick
Stub guns don't have 40k stats anywhere. You're free to prove me wrong, but I've looked through all the books and not one of them gives any stats for stub guns. Autoguns, the 40k uzis, have stats and are equivalent to laspistols.
>>46542893
The sheer conviction of posting the actual quote and then jumping through hoops to make it sound like what you want it to say, it staggering.
>>46540280
I am actually running an Only War campaign where the players' ship had its gellar field momentarily fail killing half the crew, driving 3/16ths mad, turning a similar number into horrible mutants with the rest of the crew and passengers being forced to survive. Thankfully the crew managed to pull the ship out of the warp in time to make sure that nothing worse can happen. Now the players are trying to not die. So far they have been moving towards the bridge to see if a distress beacon has been sent and hold up in there until someone arrives.
>>46542958
Even a Russ has an autoloader.
>>46540829Yes
>>46539886
>"not being completely fucking retarded in engineering and tactics"
anyone who has read even a little bit of EU stuff knows that isn't true
>>46542162
I think Stub guns have a generalised S3 Ap-, which this would certainly fall under.
>>46543230
They don't. I've looked at the books. Nowhere do you get stats or any "use them as this" for stub guns. That's a pure fluff piece.
>>46542893
>considered a possible sidearm for guardsmen
It's just saying that guardsmen can bring and keep the stubgun they crafted themselves.
>>46543138
>Forerunners
>not retarded
Stub guns have stats in 2E and in the RPG's.
They are only a little worse than autoguns and the heavy stubber is a .50 cal. Which is why its always amusing when idiots say everything in 40k is impervious to modern weaponry.
>>46543230
Stub guns haven't had rules since 2nd edition. They were basically just autopistols but shit, and you'd only ever want to use them because revolvers look cooler than machine/laser pistols.
Supreme Commander pretty much just trumps every sci-fi setting outside of the godlike Culture.
>with sufficient mass, these things can be produced by the minute
>those are trees
>>46543138
>Even just the Covenant have super fast ships that can hit from way longer ranges than any 40k ships.
nova cannons exist
>>46543435
supcom < total annihilation
So, in regards to supcom, why are they still using semi-conventional unit designs?
You'd think that the fact that a late game base is quite literally capable of creating matter from nothing that their technological progress would be through the fucking roof.
>tfw no supcom sequel
>tfw no supcom sequel with fleets and the big toys
>>46543389
>Stub guns have stats in 2E and in the RPG's.
And clearly those examples are equal to the example brought up in this thread, right? It's not like a stub gun is a general moniker for a junkyard firearm of varying styles, nope, they're all the same.
>heavy stubber is a .50 cal.
Funny, since I don't remember it saying anywhere that they were .50BMG. Or do you mean that one type, the one on vehicles, looks like an M2, so that must mean it's an M2?
>>46543469
TA is just so depressing
>Every last human is dead
>one faction remnant are brains and spines endlessly cloned to man their warmachines
>the other faction remnant are digital consciousness inscribed on microchips to pilot their machines
>>46543498
That's why I love it, though.
>>46543498
Humanity isn't dead, they live on through their glorious progeny.TA is pretty much the perfect example of a post-human Malthusian trap
>>46543482
First of all, gameplay.
Second, fluff-wise, probably efficiency of design. Sure, by the end of it you create matter from energy, but the issue is getting to that in a battlefield scenario isn't easy against a competent enemy, so you need cheap, efficient units to get to that point.
What little we see of civilization outside of the battlefield look a lot more laid back about their tech and just chill.
>>46540338
>sentinel drops on the Scarabs deck
>camps the cockpit entrance
What now heretic?
>>46540338
To be fair, when you can punch the Covy's MBT to death it does call the integrity of pretty much all their shit into question.
>>46543607
The Covenant don't have an MBT, the Wraith is a light artillery piece.
>>46543201
>He's never played Dark Heresy
>>46543533
But this isn't just regular, run of the mill near-100%-efficient mass-energy conversion, this is "literally fabricating mass and energy from quantum fields" tier.
The sheer tech level of this would afford them the ability to halt the expansion of the universe, and is testiment to either the citizen's iron clad adherence to tradition, or the single most effective government control of technology in history.
>>46543607
>>46543711
And the ones punching it are superhuman creatures that can literally punch a dent in a starship's hull.
Elites and spartans ability to fist shit to death is not a commentary on how weak armor is in Halo, but how powerful they are.
To wit, that is almost every elite. Brutes are even stronger.
>>46543492
The point is stub guns are conventional guns similar to modern ones and the ones that have stats are very similar to autoguns in damage.
I never said they were 'all the same'.
>>46543711
I thought the... spooky named thing... in Halo Wars was their mbt.
Small crew, had a direct fire cannon on a smaller scale of the scarab, ded 'ard.
Say what you want about Halo but you gotta admit that the designs are cool as fuck.
>>46543778
Autoguns which are mentioned as being superior to modern day assault rifles.
>>46543868
But clearly not by a huge amount. Not that this will stop idiots claiming PA is impervious to 40mm AP shells or even 120mm tank cannons even though it can be penetrated by dumb bullets.
