7:04pm Shitposting edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
So how much of an improvement would it be for lower end factions on the tabletop if all upgrades in 40k were free?
>>46530880
Tau come out ahead.
>>46530880
Lower end factions are usually there because they lack effective options, rather than the points costs.
>>46530880
Making things cheaper just encourages more GW jewery for making you buy more models.
Screw that.
I would rather see a lot of the top tier stuff cost 5-20% more depending what it is. (obviously 20 is an extreme, like the wraith knight)
>>46530880
Games Workshop needs to abandon their shameful sales strategy before it's too late. Theres no way in hell power creep and balance manipulation sell more models/attract more customers than a solid and balanced game would.
>inb4 some grognard points out that 40k cant be perfectly balanced
No shit. But an attempt at balance would improve the game exponentially.
2000 pt CSM list
5 formations of five ml1 sorcerers on bikes
During deployment ball them up into one unit
What could possibly go wrong?
>>46531076
Not enough models. As a single squad, they're also very prone to getting blown up by a single blast. Without Invuln saves, they'll be rather frail. You're pretty much entirely relying on rolling Invisibility.
You'll lose on objectives, since all your models are in one place. You're also almost entirely reliant on psychic powers for shooting.
>>46531076
Thats 50 T5 wounds. You're entire army is tabled turn 1 by Tau. Everyone else beats you in 2-3 turns. You kill nothing, except a couple of your own Sorcerers with perils.
Meanwhile Eldar and SM are manifesting on a 3+ or 2+, kicking your ass, while baking brownies.
>>46531053
Use the 30k army build rules, it reigns all the shit in
>No formations
>One detachment only
>LoWs must be 25% of your army total if you field them.
>>46531076
no fearless.....
beware the vindicator
>>46530937
this csm for example need cheap droppods or something like that.
>>46531248
I do play HH. I occasionally still play 40k too. I have one HH army, and four 40k armies.
Are there any books that mainly revolve around Cadians? I'm building a Cadian 8th army for my first army and want to get into the universe.
>>46531076
Sounds brilliant to me. Have them all run demonology so you can cruise around at to speed summoning more stuff. How many warp charges is that a turn?
>>46531420
25, plus 3 on average.
Since you need 3 dice to reliably summon though, that means you're getting 4 a turn.
>>46531530
Meant 7 dice, not 3.
Edited my army build based on feedback. Removed Creed and Hydra to fit in dedicated transports for my troops.
First army I'll ever build, mainly aiming for casual play in the store but I plan to eventually build up to 1500.
Astra Militarum
Point Goal: 1000
Points Used: 1000
HQ [1]
Command Squad [105]
> 1x - Company Commander; Plasma Pistol
> 4x - Veteran; Regimental Standard, Vox-caster, Camo Cloak
Troops [3]
Veteran Squad [165]
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 9x - Veterans; 2 flamers, Vox-caster, KrGren, Grenadiers
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera
Veteran Squad [165]
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 9x - Veterans; 2 grenade launcher, Vox-caster, KrGren, Grenadiers
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera
Veteran Squad [165]
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 9x - Veterans; 2 grenade launcher, Vox-caster, KrGren, Grenadiers
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera
Heavy Support [2]
Wyvern Battery [130]
> 2x - Wyvern; Heavy Flamer
Leman Russ Squadron [270]
> 2x - Leman Russ Vanquisher; Heavy Flamer
>>46531530
(25+7)/3= 10ish right?
Driving forward and dropping 10 units of Demons the first turn sounds pretty good for a turn.
What would happen if /tg/ wrote Warzone Fenris Part 2:
>orbital bombardment of worlds in system
>Changeling turns the Dark Angels suspicions toward Space Wolves
>Inquisition tries to stick up for Space Wolves, but Changeling tells them to investigate the bottom floor of the Fang
>Inquisitor goes to the bottom floor of the Fang
>he discovers the long-forbidden Slaaneshi "Yiff Cult" at the very bottom
>Space Wolves performing forbidden acts with mutant wulfen
>mutating themselves rapidly into more mutants
>inquisitor escapes and tells Dark Angels to attack
>space wolves get bombarded for heresy
>Its Wolftime.jpg
>Leman Russ returns from the eye of terror
>he has the tree of life meant to revive the Emperor
>everyone rejoices
>but he uses the tree of life on himself instead to become a daemon prince
>entire Space Wolves legion mutant into rape wolves
>massacres and forcibly yiffs Dark Angels
>boards Dark Angels battle barge with fur squad of wulfen
>Changeling offers Dark Angels pact with Tzeentch to prevent further yiffing, threatens to expose the Fallen if they don't make the deal
>Azrael makes the deal
>Dark Angels become corrupted by Tzeentch then and there, three-way battle between them, yiffs and Grey Knights begins
>Cypher and a bunch of Fallen show up and side with the Inquisitor and Grey Knights, turns out they were loyal all along
>Magnus the Red emerges from the Warp thanks to deal with Changeling
>banishes Russ back to the Warp, but before Russ is defeated he borrows the tree of life to cure himself of daemonhood and cure his men of the rubric curse
>space wolves retreat into the eye of terror, renaming themselves the Yiff Legion
>dark angels retreat into the eye of terror
>Thousand Sons and Fallen become loyal again and receive a heros' welcome
>>46531700
You misunderstood. Sorry. You get 28 dice on average, and need 7 to reliably summon
>>46531571
How is your command squad going to order your veterans if they're moving forward in their Chimera?
>Plasma pistol
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
>>46531547
>>46531530
>>46531420
don't forget the formation special power
5 shroud of deceits every turn
I feel like painting my IG/Cadians a light blue instead of green. I also feel like making a black and white braid on the tank camouflage.
Anyone know if that'd look good?
And what colors would I need?
Pic related, what I mean by a braid on the camouflage.
>>46531877
also jink
from the formation rules it sounds like each shroud of deceipt gets 4 free dice as long as the other four sorcerers are within 12"
so if you are OK with some failed casts on shroud of deceit, ~4 daemons and up to 5 deceits on the first turn
that's spooky
>>46531530
How many warp charges does summoning need? Three?
Also, with twenty eight dice you should actually be able to dispel stuff too.
>>46531982
I don't have access to my book atm, but there's got to be a way to optimize this into a WAAC tier army.
>>46531877
>>46531982
>shroud of deceits
What's this?
anyone know where to get custom transfer sheets? Mainly just trying to get some carcharodon sheets made.
>>46531701
This is GW. We would like to offer you the senior writing position for War zone Fenris: Curse of the Wulfen 2: Yiffing Boogaloo. Please report to Nottingham HQ by Monday.
Bring knee pads or a small pillow for your first day.
>>46532275
>>46532275
Shitty psychic power Chaos gets in their new supplement of shitty formations.
>>46532170
It needs 3 minimum, but realistically you'll need at least double to get a successful cast.
>>46532275
Special power the formation allows. You get to shoot with an enemy infantry unit.
>>46532275
New Black Legion formation bonus.
3WC power that let's you make a normal shooting attack with an enemy non-vehicle unit.
Now what I'm curious about is if that means that if the enemy model has multiple guns, such as a GC, are you allowed to shoot all of them?
And can you chain Deceits to have a Stormsurge shoot like 3 times?
>>46532408
No reason you couldn't cast deciet on the same model multiple times. Not sure if it allows for multiple weapons though. It says Shooting attack, but what that means isn't very clear.
Either way, most units have only one gun you'll really want to fire anyway, aside from wasting any single-use missiles they have.
>>46532456
I think that was the caveat that Geedubs was trying to avoid with the whole non-vehicles thing but were too incompetent to remember things like Wraithknights or even Carnifexes existed.
Still though.
>Wasting all the Destroyer Missles on a Stormsurge into the backs of a Broadside team
ahahahaHAHAHA
>>46532562
Forget Wraithknights and Carnifexes. There are quite a few infantry that get to fire multiple guns. Tau suits, Centurions,Terminators with those missile launchers, anybody with a pair of pistols...
Personally I would allow them to fire all the guns, if only because it's a 3 warp-charge power, and they can already target multiple model units with it and fire all those guns instead.
>>46532562
>Chaos codex is so weak that their most competitive strategy involves mind controlling units from other codexes
Running an Arenas of Death mini tournament for the spess muhreen birthday, wondering what kind of restrictions i should put into place
Basically, its
>1v1
>150 points per side
>Movement and shooting works as normal
>Once in melee you go to a kind of card based system
>Both people put cards face down
>both add init+modifiers on cards+2d6
>Whoever rolls highest has the major effect on his card happen
>Lower player has the minor effect happen
Im just worried people will bring jetbikes or shit and cheese people by running and shooting
I know im going to forbid named characters, trying to decide if I want to forbid relics as well
>>46532654
forgot pic
newfag here. I have decided to get into the tabletop and my army choice is Space Wolves, but before I get them, is there anything I need to know? Am I better off not getting them?
>>46530880
>free upgrades
Look at what that does for skitarii
Today I played Guard vs Guard and learned something terrible
Basilisks and their earthshaker cannons have lost their only true weakness
because apparently looking at the barrage rules, their minimum range is pointless because they can still fire directly at targets so much as 2 inches away from them
what is even the point of minimum range?
>>46532408
Yup. You get to make a shooting attack, as though it were part of your army. If you had enough cabals, I don't see why you couldn't.
Might not have to take a whole lot of anti-tank, if you can steal their stuff.
>>46532456
>>46532562
It says as though it were part of your army, you can shoot all the weapons on a monstrous creature if it's your army.
>>46532709
You can't fire at shit under your minimum range that's out of LoS.
>>46532690
Will you be able to handle the furfag jokes?
>>46532793
so you put some basilisks out in an open corner and bam they're effectively unburdened by it?
>>46531879
I think the /wip/ thread will be more willing to help you out in that regard.
>>46532709
There's a 3 foot blind spot where they can't shoot indirectly.
Bassies are pretty far down the list in terms of competitive HS slots.
>>46532830
I mean, sure, but most importantly I would like to know if the Space Wolves are a generally weak army compared to others.
>>46532840
>in an open corner
They're AV12. If you put them in an open corner, they will die.
I need a case to fit my 750 point imperial guards but don't want to spend close to 100 bucks on a case.
Solutions?
>>46532889
Nope. They're solid enough.
>>46532931
Nice, I'll try them out. Thanks anon.
>>46532896
I suppose this is all just an experience to force me into using more lascannons, thanks, I just wanted to make sure the loss of my scions wasn't bullshit
>>46532690
I'd just warn you they're getting more wolf and less viking every edition so it seems. If you're cool with running WOLFclaw equipped thunderWOLVES supported by WOLF pods full of WOLFwolves then go on ahead. Other than that they're a pretty good army. Them being an Army of the Imperium you can ally with probably over half the factions in the game with no drawbacks.
>>46532690
Do you like wolves?
Seriously.
Do you like Wolves?
Wolf puns, wolf names, pack mentality etc.
Do you fucking love wolves.
>>46531571
Get rid of a squad of vets to give your command squad a chimera, drop plasma pistol and vox casters and use the rest of your points to give better weapons to your vets (plasma rifles and meltas are always good).
Oh and I'd split your wyverns into two squads. Means you can attack two units at turn instead of one.
>>46531571
Drop Plasma Pistol; Give your vehicles camo netting. The Wyverns are good. The Vanquishers less so.
If you want some mech, run a command tank; Pakisher and an Executioner in a squad are really strong.
>>46531879
Check out some military historical modeling tutorials.
>>46532205
Not even close.
>>46531248
>no formations
>one detachment
A dramatic step backwards.
>>46531248
As a BA player I recognise that the state of my book could be a lot worse, but the state of it drove me to 30k where even if I get shitty legiones astartes rules (which they aren't), the crusade army list is still shared among all the legions.
Idk why they don't do this in 40k. Excluding instances where a chapter explicitly does not use a specific piece of wargear, it would make a lot of sense to just have all marines share a pool of general wargear, and make the differentiation be in characters, tactics, formations etc. 30k has proved it works and it helps balance a ton.
>>46531076
The best "fuck you, have more infantry" tactic is still massive IG conscript blobs with a commissar to "encourage" the troops when you fail a leadership test
>you can't kill us all.jpeg
>>46531571
Not too bad anon, the plasma pistol isn't going to do much, really the command squad should be behind your veterans when they disembark so you can give them orders. I'm not really sure how I feel about your choice of grenade launchers, eventually you may find that plasmas or meltas will serve better for mechvets.
When you build your Vanquishers, don't glue the Vanquisher gun in place - that barrel readily swaps with the main battle tank barrel. The Vanquishers are going to miss their target alot on bs3 and the ordnance templates of the main tank might serve you better in this list.
People might throw shit for having two wyverns at a casual 1000 points list, it depends on who you play and just how "casual" the environment is. I might drop one wyvern and save it for 1500 points in order to give some vets melta or plasma
>>46532901
Hot glue and foam core board with a rubbermaid container for wal mart. Looking at around 30-60 dollars total, depending on how much shit you have. It's a lot of time and effort but it's a good system.
I am a Necron player who doesn't do very well. I am looking to fix some of the problems with my army, which is that my list is slow and loses to drop pods and rhino rushes.
I have dropped my Annihilation Nexus already and bought some fliers for transport, but I still feel like I am not proactive enough.
I want to run some fast melee units to tie people up in the middle of the field, but I cannot decide which. The question is between Wraiths, Charnel Scarabs (switch entropic strike for shred and rend), and Arcanthrites. Which one would be best to take?
Are there any good fluff-heavy campaign systems out there for loyalists, like the Path to Glory pdf that Chaos has? It would be a lot of fun to do a prewritten campaign with detail heavy scenarios, but I don't own any CSM models.
Pic unrelated.
Anyone mind taking a look at this?
Strike Force Command
************* HQ ***************
Pedro Kantor
- - - > 185 Points
Battle Demi-Company
*************** HQ ***************
Chaplain
+ - Boltpistol
- Teeth of Terra
+ - Meltabombs
- - - > 130 Points
*************** Elite ***************
+ Ironclad Dreadnought
- DCW und Heavy Flamer
- Seismic Hammer und Meltagun
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 180 Points
*************** Standard ***************
7 Tactical Marines
- Meltagun
+ Sergeant
- Boltpistol
- 1 x Combi-Melta
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 153 Points
7 Tactical Marines
- Meltagun
+ Upgrade zum Sergeant
- Boltpistol
- 1 x Combi-Melta
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 153 Points
7 Tactical Marines
- Flamer
+ Upgrade zum Sergeant
- Boltpistol
- 1 x Combi-Flamer
- Meltabombs
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 153 Points
************** Sturm ***************
Bike Squad
5 Space Marines auf Bike
- 2 x Boltpistol
- 2 x Gravgun
+ Sergeant
- 1 x Combi-Gravgun
- - - > 145 Points
*************** Heavy Support ***************
5 Devastator Marines
- 4 x Lascannon
+ Sergeant
- Boltpistol
- Bolter
- - - > 150 Points
1st Company Task Force: Space Marines
*************** Elites ***************
8 Sternguard Veterans
- 7 x Bolter
+ Sergeant
- 1 x Bolter
- 1 x Boltpistol
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 211 Points
5 Sternguard Veterans
- 4 x Combi-Meltagun
+ Sergeant
- 1 x Boltpistol
- 1 x Combi-Meltagun
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 195 Points
5 Sternguard Veterans
- 4 x Combi-Grav
+ Sergeant
- 1 x Boltpistol
- 1 x Combi-Grav
+ - Drop Pod
- - - > 195 Points
1850
>>46534046
format your post so it doesn't take up an entire page, Fritz
>>46533873
Wraiths. Always wraiths. That said, are you using the old FW Necron flayer dynasty? I'd recommend using the normal 7e codex, you'd get better results.
And, if you're having problems with survivability, there's always the forever cursed upon Decurion.
>>46533644
>a dramatic step backwards
Yeah, because all the formation faggotry in 40k is totally not just a crappy band aid for a hilariously imbalanced game.
>>46534125
Band-aid? How is Eldar getting BS5 on everything as a band-aid?
>>46533873
Current list is:
Toholk the Blinded
2x 10 warriors in Night Scythes
2x 10 warriors on foot
2x 10 Charnel Scarabs
2x 3 heavy destroyers
Formation: Conclave of the Burning One
1840 pts
>>46534172
It's a band-aid to their insecurities.
>>46533774
>>30k is balanced guize, savior of warhammer
everyone plays marines
If everyone played orks and only orks, this game would be fucking balanced, too.
>>46534320
And amazing! There are enough Ork units that this could work as a format.
>>46534320
>30k is balanced guize, savior of warhammer
It's not. It's feared that it will be brought down to 40k levels, but there is only one hope for 30k and 40k. Pic related.
Are there bits and/or images for Psychotroke, Psyk-out, and Rad grenades?
Only one I know of is an image for Psyk-out, which look like frags but with a brassy skull on them.
>>46534385
>model with a points price tag of ~5000
>even higher Australian price tag
>takes up an entire normal sized table
>has ruins terrain on top of it that models can occupy and fight over
>a good thing for 30k or 40k
>>46534484
Just bring it out. Who's going to play against it? It'll scare off the WAAC.
>>46534507
True.
Still, would Forge World even make such an expensive and huge model?
>Forge World produces Imperator Titan model
>they charge ten times your life savings for it
>only three people buy it, one from Russia and two from China
>Forge World has a party celebrating that some suckers actually gave them several thousand dollars for a toy robot
>a month later, hundreds of "Forge World Imperator Titans" appear on eBay, selling for only $200 each
>>46530880
>>46530937
So I've been thinking about GW balance stuff for a while, and while i do think the power creep is a real problem, I think GW design problems go deeper. I still love the game, that's why I play it, but I think GW doesn't understand counter-play.
By counter-play I mean the fun that's had playing against something. This is a huge part of vidya design, so much so that it's on extra credits. This runs from things we normally don't care about balance wise to some of the egregious death stars that make people sad when they show up to play. GW does this sometimes, like the new psychic phase, but often they totally miss the boat.
I dunno maybe this interests just me, does anyone else want to talk about counter-play in 40k?
Anyone know what Caledor Sky base and Lothern Blue layer looks like? Thinking of using Caledor Blue as a base for my IG's armor, and Lothern Blue as the highlight color.
>>46534687
Weren't Imperators in Epic? And that's my only idea on how to tone down the WAAC besides maybe adding rules to the Tau that highlight how short Tau lives are or a rule about that possible Tau civil war brewing, and having wraith everything discontinued because they're aiding Slaanesh somehow. Laugh as the local tau players react to their fire warriors dying from heart attacks, or their 50 Riptides turning on their army and shouting "Farsight Akbar!"
>>46534734
Not sure what a Lothern Blue layer looks over top of it, but Caledor Sky is a very pale, greyish Blue. I find it's actually very nice for a more industrial looking blue color. I think it might work very well as the primary color for armor or a tank, though so far I've mostly used it for smaller details.
>>46534787
Nah, I meant Lothern as a highlight color, sorry.
Glad you think it'll look good on armor and tanks though, I plan on using it as a base, then adding the usual Cadian tan camo lines on my Leman Russ.
>>46534125
>formation faggotry
>band-aid
Nigger, the formations arent the band-aid. They're the blood and pus seeping out of the grotesque, diseased butthole that is 40k balance.
>>46534107
Dude, dont suggest Wraiths to an innocent. They are possibly the most undercosted unit in the game. To name just one of their several glaring issues.
>>46534718
>>46534718
I get what you mean. GW doesn't really account for how fun something is to play against, which I think is the big part of the problem.
Obviously, being able to buy a bunch of big guns and upgrades on a unit and blow all your enemies away is a lot of fun, but scooping up half your army because the other guy went first isn't.
Things that outright ignore or trivialize certain mechanics are probably the biggest issue with 40k. AP 2 weapons make armor irrelevent. Ignores cover makes cover meaningless except for blocking LoS. Fearless makes morale pointless.
Any army that either relies on these things or has any interesting mechanics with them just has their entire purpose nullified. Mariens don't feel durable because their armor gets ignored so much. Dark Eldar can barely function because they're so reliant on cover. Pinning could be a neat and tactical mechanic if it worked on something other than Orks reliably.
The more things become easy, cheap, and efficient just continues to boil down 40k to a math problem rather than a game. It gets to a point where you get a guns that can't miss or fail except if stopped by Invisibile Invulnerable deathstars.
>>46533873
Consider some Ghost Arks as transports instead of Night Scythes for your Warriors.
Perhaps break up your 20 Scarabs into 3 units of 6-7 for greater coverage.
Wraiths could also occupy your backfield to wreck ass of any DS units.
You could also deploy some Acanthrites in the enemy zone to melta their shit.
But if Drop Pods are really a pain, take some Deathmarks: they can DS on the same turn that your enemy's units do /and shoot them on their own turn/ with Rending Fleshbane Snipers--FUCK YOUR DEEPSTRIKE.
I am so tempted to buy 25 AoS chaos Knights and a box of space wolves to kit bash some bike sorcerers now
but how will I ever afford all the demons?
>>46534826
Hmm...tan might look a bit out of place next to the blue. Maybe a grey could work for arctic camo, but that depends what you're going for.
If I'm fighting Tau as CSM is it better to drop my termies from space or drive a Land Raider in? Also how effective would a distraction flying Daemon Prince likely be against them?
>>46534937
eBay a kidney?
>>46531076
So, I've thought about it some more, with my codex in hand. I think the optimum work be 13 ML 3 sorcerers with familiars on bikes, spread over some number of cabals, with four power fists thrown in.
Starting out this gives you 39+1d6 warp charges a turn. Getting three or more 4+results on five dice is 50%. With a spell familiar, it's 75%. So, your can throw the 40+ dice 8 times and get about 6 successes (almost 600 points of Demons) first turn.
After that point, you just zoom around summoning more Demons and hijacking their stuff until you run out of sorcerers or all their stuff is munched.
>>46534969
Would it? I'm planning on keeping the classic tan fatigues as well.
In my head it looks like it would be nice, though I plan on braiding the tan with a strip of white and black.
For some reason, I keep getting a Beach head invasion feel.
>>46534937
Dont support summoning spam. The game mechanic that was hamfisted in solely to sell more kits. Dont support it anon. Dont do it. Dont.
>>46534046
Casual play or tournament? What's the meta like?
>>46534989
Land Raider. A Flying DP will just get skyfired, wasting 300+ points. Every Tau cocksucker in the world will tell you he took skyfire in his list once he sees your DP. Last minute list tailoring is a trait all Tau fags share.
New player here. Why the fuck is the chainsword AP nothing? And why do Grey Knights get an AP3 force weapon and a storm bolter on a 20 point model when Berzerkers pay 22 for an AP4 chainaxe and a bolt pistol?
>>46535094
Because Grey Knights have their own personal forge world, and berzerkers are slaves to darkness.
>>46535044
how else can 25 sorcerers in a 2000 pt list be viable?
>>46534718
Tyranids could get biomorphs for their monstrous creatures: Vacuum Carapace(ignore Helfrost insta-kill effect, Void Hardened), Adapted Blood Chemistry(Poisoned counts as 1 worse to a min of 6+) and Heavyworld Carapace(graviton weapons need a 6 to wound it), and have it be either/or for these.
Make Haywire wound Tau Battlesuits and Drones on a 2+ and disable their fancy stuff(Nova Reactor, Blacksun Filter, Multi-tracker, Stimulant Injector) for a turn, since you're hitting something using conventional robotics technology with EMP.
Nerf Stomp so that you can charge a Gargantuan Creature or Knight with a 2-hand axe Bloodthirster or Carnifex brood and not have a 1 in 6 chance of dying randomly before you can kill the thing.
Add Legion Tactics to Chaos Space Marines so they can give stuff infiltrate or tank hunters, which would be huge for them.
Make Graviton weapons ignore Jink on jetbikes and skimmers to represent that you're messing up their gravity drive systems.
Make Dangerous Terrain tests fail on a 1-2 for vehicles, bikes and jetbikes. You're driving something into a wall, chances are your gonna crash if you don't have a dozer blade.
And seriously, nerf Eldar.
>>46535094
Welcome to the show. You're probably going to hate it. Especially if you're looking at Berserkers.
>>46535127
All of them rolling on biomancy?
>>46534989
Give it nurgle demon for shroud and 2+ jink saves a all the time. Iirc tau have SMS which gnore cover but have a poor ap.
>>46535127
I hear you. I just hate that summoning spam exists, it epitomizes the bad.
>>46532951
Hey I just started space wolves. I was able to snag two start collecting sets off ebay for a total of $135 which gave me my two troops, enough Thunderwolves to put a lord on (I also have a regular if I ever want to use it) and 5 Thunder Wolf Cavalry which are a fantastic unit in our codex.
I was then able to find two Rhinos for my 20 Grey Hunters at ~$30
Next I bought a used drop pod and 10 Long Fangs (only using 6 right now)
Personally I think I am going to grab some Wulfen next because they seem decent for what I do.
The Deathstar of TWC has been really great.
My friends started with Dark Angels and Chaos Space Marines and I never once felt weak against them yet.
It is a really fun army.
>>46535094
>Why the fuck is the chainsword AP nothing?
because AP 5/6 would just inflate the costs of already mediocre units
>why do Grey Knights get an AP3 force weapon and a storm bolter on a 20 point model when Berzerkers pay 22 for an AP4 chainaxe and a bolt pistol?
because Berzerkers have more attacks and a higher WS. Higher strength too, if they get the charge. Their pistols give an extra CC attack, while the storm bolters don't
'zerks are worse than knights for a variety of reasons, but comparing their wargear straight up is a poor way of showing it
>>46532901
Try the battlefoam alpha case
>>46535113
Zerkers have the Dark Mechanicus. They don't give a shit about regulations so they probably have daemon powered assembly lines making weapons cheaper than anywhere ever. Knights meanwhile have to spread their sacred jizz from the Emperor's testicle mines upon each blade. Surely that takes more work.
>>46535025
Tough to say. I think the color overall gives more of an ice or urban camo vibe, so a tan might contrast a bit harshly with it.
Pic related is pretty close to Caledor Sky, so you can see a bit there how tan looks on a tank with it.
>>46535094
Because GW hates the "badguy" factions like CSM, Orks, and Nids.
The chainaxe is shit by the way, don't take it. Feel free to model it, and just tell you're other players that it's just a standard CCW, since that's what they used to be before anyway.
>Mom dropped my younger brother off so she could go somewhere
>Let him come watch my friends and I play 40k in the garage
>One friend is ranting about markerlights
>Little brother tells him to just get good at the game
>He gets angry and leaves early
I hope none of you ever get told to git gud by a 10 year old.
>>46531341
Cadian Blood is pretty cool, has cadians in a zombie apocalipse (plaguezombies, really)
>>46535193
>Higher strength too, if they get the charge
don't they have to pay extra for the icon to get furious charge?
>>46535217
little bro is right, but markerlights are still bullshit
Let people take cover saves against them, or something.
>>46535197
>Zerkers have the Dark Mechanicus. They don't give a shit about regulations so they probably have daemon powered assembly lines making weapons cheaper than anywhere ever.
And that's why they're bad. In one recent story Abaddon is fed up with daemons in everything and also this.
>Knights meanwhile have to spread their sacred jizz from the Emperor's testicle mines upon each blade. Surely that takes more work.
Not really because do you know how hard it to keep daemons under control?
>>46535217
Your brother should be scalded for spouting memes without understanding the context of the discussion.
Also he's not even old enough to play darksouls, he shouldn't be parroting adult memes.
>>46535201
That's a fine looking Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. C!
Hmmm..... The tan I'd be using looks a bit darker than that, but I think it'd work for an Urban camo scheme.
Actually, that's what I was thinking of in the first place, Urban camo! I remember what I was thinking about when I wanted blue. Thanks mate.
I think I'll stick with the tan, I think it'll come out nice enough. If I like how it looks, I might add a Ceramite White braid?
>>46535245
That'd be nice.
It was just funny to hear him say that, I expected him to just sit quietly and watch like he usually does.
>>46535287
He lives with my mom and sisters, I'm sure one of my sisters are to blame for his vocabulary.
How crucial would it be for an Orikan Star to have a Night Scythe?
I already have Obyron's teleport and an Overlord with Veil. So that is two ways to deepstrike them wherever I want.
It is only 6-8 Lychguard with the 3 HQs.
I am about to buy one for my Immortals tomorrow but the shop owner said if I bought both he would discount them another 10% off the total ($75 with tax)
I only have ten immortals so the second one could really only serve the Lychguard.
My warriors have two Ghost Arks.
>>46535190
>Doesn't feel weak against CSM
>Thunder Wolves
>>46535245
>Let people take cover saves against them
I think I would wreck tau if I could jink a markerlight.
>>46535127
Fuck the haters. Roll demonology.
See how many bikes you can transom into greater Demons.
>>46535206
I've played a few games with my brother and a friend. The chainaxe seemed helpful, but neither played Space Marines so maybe that was the difference? My brother plays Necrons and they seemed worth it to me.
And yeah I'm picking up on that looking through codices. I'm playing Khorne Daemonkin, but man it really seems like I pay a lot of points for units that are pretty dogshit compared to the other codices.
>>46534718
There's counter-play in current 40K. It's called D. It's really the ultimate in counter-play because there's quite literally no way to counter it when you roll a 6. The only way you survive that is by having a crap-load of wounds/Hull Points and being immune to Instant Death/Explodes. So in other words being a super-heavy yourself. Same goes for Stomp. Roll a 6, and it doesn't matter what you have, you're going away.
It's really poor design though, because no-one likes just straight up losing their models without any counter-play being available. The trouble is that 40K has hit the point where the options for dealing with deathstars have more or less boiled down to "another equally powerful deathstar" or "Give them the D". I think it's no co-incidence that back in 4th ed when I started playing, most psykers were a joke, but the game was more balanced. Flash forward now and the rise of psykers has contributed greatly to the power imbalances that plague the game now. Ironically, the new psychic phase introduced a counter-play option (Deny the Witch) but because players could just invest in more psykers to boost their power die pool the effect of this is largely nil, except in specific cases like Eldar Farseers.
On top of all that there's the issue of certain factions not having a person on the rules team who is really into them, leading to lackluster and dull rules being churned out, whilst the factions with devs who are into them get amazing rules.
>>46535272
Chaos doesn't need to stick Daemons in everything though, and as that story shows doing so just pisses the Chaos gods off because you're stealing a bunch of Daemons but not doing anything with them.
But that's not important, because Chaos can just TAKE A FUCKING MELTAGUN and BOLT IT TO ANOTHER ONE
Twin-linked Meltagun, no Demons required. How is this difficult?
Chaos doing Tech-heresy doesn't mean shoving a Daemon in everything. It just means they'll tape together weapons in ways that would make loyalists faint from shock at the poor machine spirits being abused.
And yet Loyalists are the ones getting stuff like Meltaguns strapped to Powerfists.
Looking to buy an Ork kit which I can customize and enjoy a bit of time giving some character. Are there any kits which would let me have some fun to personalize an Ork Squad? I would be thinking along the lines of the 'Ard Boyz, look of large spiky armour and gobs.
I am not a heavy converter or a converter at all, but I am interested in slobbing some bitz together and making a squad of rough and tough Ork veterans.
Any suggestions?
>>46535362
nobs
nobs are not very good, though
>>46535245
I never understood that. My last game I was in a set of ruins with tiny slit windows being the only way to see out. Do the markerlights have super heat seeking powers? I mean by the rules if I was in a steel box at maximum range with a hole the size of a rifle bore I still would get hit by half the shots they take with them.
>>46535159
maybe with a mix of psychic powers? if all 25 sorcerers ball up together they can get all the buffs
but are 50 wounds of invisible jinking FNP EW 3+/4++ enough? That's one hell of a deathstar.
>>46535317
>my friends willingly split the Dark Vengeance set
>it is my fault his Nurgle Bikers can't into assault
Sorry but I am a new player and we are all having fun.
However he just got the Nurgle Start Collecting and a Daemon Prince to ally so apparently he is learning.
>>46532340
Bolter and Chainsword has you covered.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/499-carcharodon-badab-war-era/
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/85-space-sharks-carcharadons-decal-sheets/
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/302-space-sharks-2nd-rt-era-decal-sheet/
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/315-space-sharks-carcharodon-astra-version/
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/257-space-sharks-rt-era-logo-sheet-bols/
You have to buy the transfer paper yourself (you don't need a special printer tho), but there are some great ones on there. A little googling around will show you what you need and what to do.
>>46535296
I think some white wouldn't be amiss. Fits fine with an urban scheme and might help ease the contrast a bit.
You might want to be careful with Ceremite white though. In my experience it tends to be a bit chalky and difficult to work with. I might actually recommend Pallid Witch Flesh, which is a very light tan. Goes on more smoothly and is better for smaller details like that.
>There were 20 primarch, 20 legions
>2nd and 11th legions missing
>Alpharius and Omegon were last primarchs
>pic related = Alpha, Omega, Sigma
>Sigma is the eighteenth letter of the Greek alphabet
>20-18=2
>2nd Legion
>Sigmar is the lost primarch of the 2nd legion
>9/11
>>46535348
>It's called D.
Pic related.
>>46535360
>How is this difficult?
It's harder than beating a Tau/Eldar army with Orks. You have to realize the Chaos Gods and daemons won't allow you to prosper. They want you to suffer and stick daemons in everything otherwise they won't be getting souls to eat. It's like a drug addiction. The Chaos Gods(drug dealers) sell you drugs(daemons) and get you hooked on more.
>>46535378
This is purely for construction purposes. I've stopped playing 40k years ago but my heart still lies with the greenskins.
I got a nob squad a fair while ago with their massive double handed choppas and such. Is the kit the same or has it changed? I know they are veterans but I would be thinking not quite nob level orks but still rough and experienced, like, as I mentioned, Ard Boyz or the classic Skar Boyz.
Also if for nobz for veterans I would consider Mega Nobz but I'm guessing they lack custom parts.
>>46535388
quick math suggests it would take about 3600 bolter shots to kill that death star
>>46535245
I still like the suggestion of making it cost 1 markerlight to reduce cover by 1. Still nerfs it a fair bit, but makes the quality of cover actually matter.
>>46535206
Necrons are a "badguy" faction and they get great rules. Daemons are pretty much the definition of "badguy" and they get great rules. For that matter IG are "good guys" and their rules are very hit and miss. Same for Blood Angels.
The issue is that certain factions don't have a person on the rules team who is interested in them, so they don't produce good rules for them. It's a natural enough thing; I play Orks and if someone told me to write Codex: Eldar I pretty much wouldn't know where to start. I'd probably end up copy-pasting a lot of their existing stuff whilst trying to go through their fluff to find out anything that translate across to rules. Maybe I'd play up the "dying race" aspect by dropping their maximum squad size down and making them take morale checks whenever they lose a model, not just when they take 25% casualties.
>>46534915
Exactly!! It's especially bad from a fluff standpoint, because counter-play is a big part of how, at least I, visualize the fluff on the tabletop. Your marine examples are perfect in this regard. Again, its not that there should be NO AP2, its that it should require a strategic sacrifice. That's why "Gets Hot" is a cool rule. It requires a sacrifice of reliability for damage output. It also means that the opponent has a real choice: leave the gunners be because they might kill themselves.
The thing is, they knock it out of the park sometimes. Think about 7th ed psychic phase. Deny the witch is interesting, because it makes people think about where to put psykers in their army both for pulling off powers and for blocking them.
The screamerstar has nothing for the opponent to interact with. Therefore no fun. That's an easy example though, because we all have no fun playing a screamerstar.
The best example, I think, are jet infantry. Jet infantry move, shoot, then depending on terrain, are unavailable for counter-actions. Jet infantry aren't imbalanced per se, though. They're good, but far from the most terrible thing in the Tau or 30k Mechanicum lists. Riptides have that honor. However jet infantry are just no fun. The opponent cannot interact with this type of play in a meaningful way though. There's not really any risk, etc. However, jet infantry are fun as hell to play.
That's one good example, but there are totally others. I just find it unfortunate.
>>46535462
>making them take morale checks whenever they lose a model, not just when they take 25% casualties.
Right now they could add this to Eldar and they'd still be overpowered desu senpai
>>46534915
Also I missed the point about pinning. That might be the best example of bad counter-play.
>>46535456
>Is the kit the same
yes
>Ard Boyz or the classic Skar Boyz.
your best bet in that case would be just taking a regular boy squad and buying/getting a hold of a bunch of bits from the other kits (burnas, nobz, flashgitz, etc) to customize them.
What if I want to play Thousand Sons but not have only Rubrics for infantry?
>>46535509
Fair enough. Thanks for the advice. Just hope the boyz squad cost doesn't decimate my wallet.
>>46535530
just field whatever you want?
maybe the thousand sons have a cultist following? or perhaps they hired some mercenaries?
Maybe they've taken in some new marines in the past ten millennium?
Or maybe since time is distorted within the warp, some of their marines are not yet turned to ash?
>>46535543
>Decimate
So you'd only lose 10% of your cash. Not too bad.
>>46535500
Pinning could definitely be enhanced in a lot of ways.
Like:
>getting hit by a pinning weapon is enough to force the check, it doesn't have to cause a wound
>barrage and sniper weapons are pinning again
>heavy weapons teams for all factions have the "suppressive fire" ability, allowing them to make their shots snap shots in order to gain pinning on them
>you get a -1 modifier to pinning for each pinning test you'd already taken(getting caught in a crossfire sucks)
>>46535348
>>46535479
Our thoughts are very much at the same place it seems. I would say the design issues are forgivable given the variety of races, but plenty of mobas have tons of heroes and at least reliably attempt counter-play, even if they aren't totally successful.
That said, we should probably also give credit when GW does this so that they can know what we like. If recent times are evidence, GW actually does hear us, but making new rules and products takes a ridiculous amount of time.
>>46535576
Touche! But 10% would still a lot for me, super freugal this one.
>>46535479
I get what you mean about Jetpacks. They can be very annoying since you can't easily reach them with buildings in the way. At the same time, they do offer solid options to shooting units that might otherwise be too short-ranged or to frail to survive a solid counter-attack.
The issue is when a Jet unit is so durable that the jet pack is just a bonus.
Reavers, for example, can really use their Jet thrust on their bikes to good effect, and that opens up some counterplay because they're frail enough that chasing them down becomes a decent option, because catching them means you'll likely kill them.
Craftworld Jetbikes, Riptides, and Crisis suits, on the other hand, don't offer that sort of option, since even if you catch up to them, you're dealing with a durable MEQ or monstrous creature.
In my group's games, I tend to find that the best way to make jet-packs more interesting is the addition of doors. Specifically, our terrain is mostly corner-wall ruins, with single doors on one or two of the walls. Some are multiple floors, some aren't.
The effect though, is that a Jet-pack unit using one of these walls for cover can still pull of jump-shoot-jump fairly well, but the existence of a door means that an enemy can easily barge in and charge them next turn.
It instead encourages the Tau player to instead go for distance using Jet-pack moves, rather than for cheesy hiding tactics. Instead of trying to hide in a building like that to poke out without reprisal, instead they'll simply be trying to get enough distance to avoid assault, which often means finding themselves outside of cover or in the line of fire.
>>46535530
Run normal CSM as renegade mercs. Cultists could be played like the priests and their followers who maintained the mortuary temples at the pyramid complexes of the Old Kingdom. Daemon engines could be painted with glyphs showing showing that the sorcerer lords bound them personally. Other cult units could be played off as offerings from other Chaos lords who want to stay on your Warlords good side. You could even use maulerfiends as the stereotypical bull from a Heb-sed.
>>46535596
Right. Maybe you could choose to take a leadership to run through the fire? you take shots at the weapon profile, but get to move again? that would allow players on the receiving end meaningful choice while making pinning itself viable.
>>46535603
There is no new codex update in sight for Tyranids or Chaos Space Marines.
And the current Eldar codex is a patently ridiculous elf wankfest.
>>46535647
>Being frugal
Such a foreign concept to me, the one who spends the free money his college gives him every few months on retarded shit.
>>46535596
I do think Pinning weapons should have to cause a wound to pin, as it doesn't make much sense for a Marine or a Necron to take cover from a weapon that just bounces off their armor, but the blanket immunity to pinning is what's really annoying.
If a quick-firing weapon like that kills a guy in your squad, taking cover is the natural tactical reaction.
I really do like the idea of a suppressive fire rule though.
>>46530777
I'm thinking about getting a basilisk
I like how they look and heard they do real damage
Is the 36" minimum firing distance hard to play with?
>>46535677
Alas. Been out of college a bit and fortunately paid it all up front so no debts. Still trying to get myself afloat proper so, while I can spend some on some fun stuff like 40k Orks, Battlefleet Gothic and the odd game or two there, 90% of it is put away for the future. Its weird to a lot but it is what it is.
>>46535669
That could be a really neat way to make pinning function. A simple leadership check, and if you pass you can stand up and move, but if you do, the unit with a pinning weapon gets free shots at you.
That could also mean you could remove some of the morale immunities to pinning tests. Instead of just not caring about pinning weapons, they'll still take cover, but then you can change that bonus to let them choose to stand up and move without having to test for it, but still taking the shots.
>>46535651
Yeah 40k has more and more difficulties just because terrain changes the viability of some armies so much. I'll try adding doors and see if that gets us anywhere. Though I will say that I don't think jet infantry are broken, I think they aren't fun. I'm fine with imbalanced games that are fun. Though I prefer a game that is both, like SC2.
![Ahriman_battle[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/v4yNJWw.jpg "Ahriman_battle[1].jpg")
>>46535530
Play Prodigal Sons.
>>46535717
I should probably start being smarter, I'll be a junior in the fall and I want toteach high school Englishso I need to be smarter with money.
>>46535737
I'm totally in favor of this also. Morale is a perfect place for counter play and ATSKNF and Fearless totally bypass it. I bet we could think of some more.
>>46535696
It's not too bad, since you can move and still fire ordinance, you will just be still firing directly more then you'd like.
>>46535758
Yeah. I tend to fine my group's buildings are actually really good at leveling the playing field though. The giant walls with doors also mean assault armies have a reliable way to block line of sight without having to walk all the way around the building or wall to actually charge.
I agree with you on Jet pack units though. It's part of the reason Tau are one of my armies.
I don't think 40k will ever be perfectly balanced, though there's a lot of ways it could be better. Plus once it is balanced, then you can always un-balance it again by creating scenarios that favor one force or another.
>>46535414
Ah, I see, thanks a lot for that then!
Hmm... I'm rethinking Lothern Blue, and thinking about going with Teclis Blue, as Teckis is darker, and I think would work a bit better, maybe?
>>46535462
Yeah, it's kind of hard to get a good codex for an army without vehicles from a guy who looooooves vehicles...
>>46535795
I've seen the idea suggested before here that each army should have 'fearless', but only for one type of morale check.
So, for the pinning example, you could have Necrons able to automatically stand up from getting pinned, since they're extra-durable and don't really value their lives.
Something fluffy like that for each army would give everyone a specific aspect of leadership that they get a bonus against, without just making Morale not matter for 50% of armies.
I think something else key for Morale is that rather than outright nullifying the enemy's effect, any sort of morale bonus should either just boost your odds of resisting it, or just make it somewhat less effective.
Say for example, you had a rule to counteract Fear. Rather than just ignoring Fear entirely, you could make it so that Fear makes the unit only fight at 1/2 Weapon skill, rather than 1.
Then the player with Fear has their rule actually matter, but the player with Fear-resist gets a leg up compared to other armies.
>>46535758
Playing 40k with heavy cover, including line of sight blockers is probably how it's meant to be played.
in fluff do chaos space marines have any kind of fleets comparable to imperium?
>reading word bearer novels
>word bearers sneaking around imperial fleet on a stolen civilian vessel that they refitted
>they get tense because if they get detected they're dead
pretty funny. are csm poverty marines?
>>46535815
I agree on the balance point too. 40k doesn't have to be impeccably balanced to be a good game though, it just needs to give me meaningful choices once my models are on the table.
40k as it stands is quite complex, but its complex choices are in list building, not in playing. I enjoy building lists because that's the part of the game that involves neat tactical choices. However, I like games, and therefore I'd like the game itself to have more of this type of fun in it. The list building focus of 40k, in my opinion, makes it easy to accidentally make an army that is not fun for your opponent to play, or for you to play given what your opponent has brought. Considering the time investment that even a small game of 40k requires, I'd say that's a problem.
Not to say there is none, because I still play the game and find some games thoroughly fun. I just wonder if we could shift the rules focus.
>>46534320
>disregarding Mech, Knights, Solar, Militia
>willingly playing a game with Tau, Eldar, and Codex Marines when there's a game with none of those things.
Ok.
>>46535917
Right. But Tau can ignore any cover any time they want. And they also have missiles that dont require los. So what are you supposed to even do vs that?
I play CSM, and I'm at the point I wont even play against Tau anymore. Same thing every time:
My list is casual.
This isnt my competitive list.
Friendly game?
Yet every single time its the same shit, and I get monkeystomped. Thanks for that Games Workshop. Really enjoying this game for the past 4 years. Four years.
>>46535917
Agreed, and I certainly do this. even then, I find it easy to accidentally play a game of 40k which is not fun. That is a problem to me anyway.
>>46535899
Oh totally. We could link these benefits to characters, which would make the counter-play that precision shots would matter for board control perhaps.
>>46536097
There's always Zone Mortalis.
>>46536045
I run CSM. My friends run Tau, Space Wolves, and Necrons. I don't think the dark gods can hear my prayers.
>>46536045
My CSM where gathering dust for so long. I just started using the SM book. Holy balls the difference is staggering.
Anyone that complains just end up in my shit listthey are usually eldar players too
What's the typical composition of a Farsight Bomb?
>>46535957
>in fluff do chaos space marines have any kind of fleets comparable to imperium?
No. Even Abaddon has to resort to tricks to keep away from the greater bulk of the imperial navy.
>are csm poverty marines?
Yeah, more or less. All their gear is shitty too, because their maintenance crews are retards AND they frequently murder them for funsies.
>>46536167
Cancer and narcissism
>>46535957
>>46536185
Much like the crunch. CSM work best when someone is busy summoning a butt nigga ton of daemons.
I actually play a summoning + Varks endless tide with CSM because I love chocking the field with units.Carrying that many models is a cunt though
Speaking of terrain to balance the game:
Roads:
>if a model moves via a road while at least 24" from the enemy the whole time, it gets a movement bonus
>must start, follow and end on the road
>bikes and jetbikes get +6" movement
>non-walker, non-flyer vehicles get +6" movement, count as combat speed up to 12" and cruising speed up to 18"
Lava Vents:
>difficult and dangerous terrain
>failed dangerous terrain test = AP1 wound/penetrating hit
>ignore Dozer Blade/Siege Shield(danger is not easily shoved aside)
>failed on a 1 if Move Through Cover
>failed on a 2 normally
>failed on a 3 if bike, jetbike or vehicle
Bridge:
>counts as part of road
>crosses impassable gorge
>non-skimmer/flyer superheavy/gargantuan stepping on it collapses it, causing both it, and every non-skimmer/flyer model on it, to fall into gorge below and be removed from play
>jump and jet pack models may pass initiative test to avoid falling
>bridge supports can be targeted for demolition, count as AV12 with 2 HP
>>46536045
Run a scenario where roofs to ruins/cavern ceilings block LOS ignoring weapons?
Run hard LOS blocking terrain to make markerlights less overpowered?
>>46536234
I've got it!
take a bunch of GW boxes and cut them into little demon shapes, attach them to bases
since it is fully GW product, nobody can give you shit for it
>>46535413
Thanks anon, you da mvp.
>>46536420
what
>>46536367
Are you familiar with Tau players? I've never met one that would willingly concede his advantages.
>>46536167
Farsight joined to a unit to prevent deepstrike scatter and a selection of Crisis suits, tailored to the specific enemy composition you expect.
>>46532358
Is this real or nah?
>>46532358
It's real. Weep later.
>>46535304
>How crucial would it be for an Orikan Star to have a Night Scythe?
bump.
Here's a thought about issues with the rules, and "cheater" units.
Some units have ignoring one rule or another as their thing: ATSKnF preventing Fear, Sweeping Advance and retreat, Flyers being hard to hit, Tzeentch Daemons laughing at grav guns, etc.
The problem is when the unit completely ignores just about every rule out there:
1) Strength D and Stomp. Here we have attacks that ignore every normal defense: armor saves, armor values, feel no pain, and can ignore all saves altogether. In addition, they deal multiple wounds or even instant death while ignoring Eternal Warrior. They just automatically kill everything if you roll good. Not only that, but they lack the interactive penetrating hits rules of hit effects: they just strip hull points mindlessly.
2) Super-heavies and Gargantuan Creatures. Here we have vehicles and MCs that ignore terrain and do whatever they want. Here we have vehicles that are immune to grav and penetrating hit effects, monstrous creatures that are nigh-immune to poison. And then they get stomp attacks/strength D usually, and can fire all their weapons as much as they like at whatever targets they like.
3) Riptides. This unit is a Monstrous Creature with a Jet Pack(ignores terrain, jump shoot jump, relentless, fire multiple weapons). It also ignores haywire even though lorewise it shouldn't, and ignores Blind and Night Fighting, all just for being a battlesuit. It's pie plates ignore armor, and cover too if they get a markerlight. And then it has its impressive defenses.
4) Formations that give free stuff. Getting free razorbacks or equipment for every squad in an Imperium army is a problem, because it removes the logistical fact that taking transports and AP2 weapons means less boots on the ground. It's a balancing feature of the game that is cast aside.
(cont.)
>>46536629
>tailored to the specific enemy comp
Tau players, anons and gentlemen.
>>46530880
I don't think that can possibly outweigh all tau suits getting 4++ or FNP for free
>>46536711
Massive gamebreakers have been added to 40k. The game was originally balanced around a certain scale, with the really stupid stuff reserved for Apocalypse.
Meanwhile actually well thought-out mechanics are ignored in the current rules. For example, units lacking Tank Hunters testing morale when charged by a Tank. Barrage and Sniper weapons causing Pinning. Daemons deep striking without scatter next to icons held by mortals, not just other daemons' icons. Strategy ratings giving elite armies the upper hand in choosing the battlefield. All of these rules have been sacrificed, and replaced by what? Huge slugfests between $150 dollar models?
Run Strength D using the old Eldar Distort rules for Eldar D weapons(-1 on distort chart for D-Scythes still). Auto-wound/pen, considered strength 11 whenever that stat is required, for the big D weapons.
Run super-heavies using the rules for non-superheavy units, but let them keep their high hp/wound numbers and still have Explodes! and Instant Death only reduce wounds/hp by three.
Errata out any formation abilities giving 50+ pts free stuff to each unit.
Limit the number of formations/allies that can be taken(tournaments are already doing this).
You can also add in some of those older rules, call it a special scenario or something. I'd say limit it to CAD and do classichammer but right now certain codexes are so screwed over without formations that's hard to do.
Basically make the game self-regulating and blacklist players who bring WAAC lists to friendly games.
Any thoughts on this?
>>46536826
The expected enemy comp. Plasma is usually safe if it's all comers, since you're more likely to need precision anti armor than MEQ killing.
>>46536826
You and your opponent are retarded if you don't tailor what aspects of your list you can or need to.
Now, most of the time and with most armies you don't need to bring entirely different lists to every enemy. But something like attaching Farsight to a specific unit based on circumstance (or changing vehicle loadouts or deciding between plasma/melta or warlord gear etc etc etc) is something fairly basic that is actively hurting you if you don't do it.
It's far better to full-ass one thing than half-ass two things.
>>46537127
...Or tailoring a list to be friendlier.
Nice, casual...uh, Farsight bombs.
>>46537127
If I'm playing Tau and I need more anti-tank, it's easy. I just swap out their guns for a few Fusion Blasters.
If I'm playing Tyranids and I need more anti-tank, I'll have to cut something out of the list and replace it with an entirely different model (that I also have to buy and paint) that actually has anti-tank options.
List tailoring doesn't become more fair just because both people do it.
>>46536915
>>46536711
Honestly just gear up and play the game. Plenty of chinese recasters around for you to "pay to win". Try to play your chosen faction to the best of your ability and change your list to tailor the event.
Tournament favors deathstars? Bring one
Tournament favors objectives? Objective secured MSU it is
Not playing tournaments? Just fit your list to the meta and get you units when you can afford to.
It's a hobby your list should change. Most fun I have is when we play narrative stuff locally.
>>46537167
>>46537222
Don't complain about balance or winning in friendly games. You can try to purposely gimp your army to play with friends, but if you're doing that you may as well homebrew better Nids or w/e anyways. Since as we know, fucking GW won't do it anyways cause they're retards.
And if you expect people NOT to list tailor in competitive games you should stop playing competitively (not sure why you would with 40k anyways, it's pretty garbage, but that's ultimately not my point).
>>46537289
You're retarded. Lack of balance hurts friendly games more than competitive games.
>>46537231
>don't bother trying to change the rules
>just buy more shit
I'd accuse you of being a shill, but you condone recasters.
>>46535190
You're playing a top tier army against some of the worst in the game. It's no big deal as long as everyone has fun.
DA Has ravenwing. Chaos has...Lost and Damned, which is what your friend should start collecting. Chaos might get better with the new book but I'm not holding my breath.
If you need to handicap yourself, give all your Sargeants every upgrade you can to ridiculously inflate the costs while still being fun
>>46536915
Classichammer is taking off at my store. 1500 point games, 1 CAD, that's it.
>>46537414
The rules can be harder to change. Alternatively find a tournament set of rules you like and try to convince your local meta to take that up.
ITC, Adaptacon, Nova, etc
Although all of those usually feature Eldar in the top 15 so.. even they haven't addressed the core issues
I bet the Dark Angels are actually the baddies and Alpha Legion were goodies all along.
>>46537574
I bet this was never the intention of the original developers, but Black Library will sadly take this route anyway.
I love people who run WAAC lists that get shit on by my terrible lists that are only built to spoil the meta.
>>46537572
None of the major tournament rules actually try to balance things.
>>46537709
They must change the OOTB rules just for the fuck of it then?
>play iyanden and saim hann eldar along with tau in 4th and 5th since I love the armies, their models, fluff and design
>return to the game a few months ago
>everything I play has become cheesy WAAC faggotry
>people refuse to play me on principle
might just start a new army until they get nerfed
>>46537719
Is that the Tau combined fire thing? That was arguably FAQ matter.
>>46537736
Reign yourself in and get people to give you a chance. Once people see that you're not a WAAC asshole, you won't have problems getting games in.
>>46537754
hm fair ITC do seem to change rules though like the GC not getting free cover for no reason
Still better then the OOTB rules, usually
>>46537736
Play orks
>>46535012
that also means you only have 26 wounds instead of 50
I think the right balance between bodies and power per body would depend on the local meta.
Moreover the fomation special power really rewards cabals with five models (four free dice on the three charge power? might as well cast it every turn, even if it fails you got it for free)
Personally I would want to balance it around 20 sorcerers so I can get away with buying a little less. Will need to crunch to determine whether they would be better as five groups of four, or four groups of five.
>>46537818
Or Dark Eldar.
+++ 1849pts/1850pts +++
++ Combined Arms Detachment (860pts) ++
Sorcerer (60pts)
2x Chaos Cultists (50pts)
2x [FW] Chaos Relic Sicaran (135pts)
[FW] Chaos Knight Paladin (430pts)
[Dirge Caster (5pts), Khorne Mark (50pts)]
++ Combined Arms Detachment (558pts) ++
Herald of Tzeentch (150pts)
[D6 Exalted Daemonic Reward (30pts), Daemon of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch (25pts), Psyker Level 3 (50pts)]
Herald of Tzeentch (120pts)
[Daemon of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch (25pts), Psyker Level 3 (50pts)]
10x Pink Horrors (90pts)
11x Pink Horrors (99pts)
11x Pink Horrors (99pts)
++ Chaos CR Vraks Renegade Unending Host (431pts) ++
Renegade Command Squad (65pts)
[Master of the Horde (20pts), Warlord]
Renegade Infantry Platoon (96pts, 32 man strong)
3x Renegade Infantry Platoon (90 pts each, plat is 30 man strong)
>>46537981
You need to learn how to read. Especially the restrictions on the Infernal Relic and Master of the Horde rules.
>>46533888
Can't look it up where I am right now, but was Path to Glory good?
>>46537981
This looks really ambitious and clever, daemons, Tzeentch, and heavy metal, love it.
>>46538054
Sorc is the technomancer. Removes the relic restriction.
Master of the horde restriction re the 15 models + is played at the platoon level. At least that's how we play it locally but it's not a big deal for me to change this around
>Got back into 7th edition
>"I heard eldar bikes are OP hmm let me take a look"
>windriders can take scatterlasers
>"oh yeah that's definitely good but I don't see why-"
>ANY
>WINDRIDER
>CAN
I swear this shit is so fucked I almost thought it was a typo
>>46538121
>Whenever an individual Renegade Infantry Squad...numbering at least 15 models at the start of play
>>46530880
I'd honestly just to be happy for cheaper transports for my sisters.
40pnt rhinos hurt.
>>46538245
35 point Rhino's really aren't much better. I wish Rhino's were more expensive but more durable. It's retarded that the elite forces of the Adeptes Astartes and Adeptes Sororitas go to war in tissue boxes.
>>46538314
chaos rhinos with a havoc launcher and an extra combibolter are so much fun but they really do crumple up when people so much as look at them funny.
Trying to revive my old Witch Hunters army for an upcoming league of 1850 and would love some feedback.
Inquisitor - lvl 1 with hammerhand, force weapon, rad and psyk nades, power armor
Inquisitor - BoV (just for the scout move more or less)
Inquisitorial henchmen - 5x deathcult assassins, 4x crusaders /w valkyrie /w rocket pods
Inquisitorial henchmen - x5 jokaero weaponsmiths, x1 psyker (rolling divination,) x1 mystic /w chimera
Inquisitorial henchmen - x10 acolytes /w x3 meltaguns x7 bolters, x1 psyker (rolling divination,) x1 mystic /w chimera
Canoness /w eternal warrrior relic, eviscerator, rosiraries
Priest /w LoF (auto passes hymns)
sisters of battle squad x5
sisters of battle squad x5
dominions x5 /w x4 meltaguns /w Immolator - twinlinked multimelta.
seraphims x5 /w x4 handflamers
Exosist
Exosist
Exosist
Void shield generator x3 projected shields.
The nade inquisitor goes with the CC henchmen, so does the canoness and the priest, they can in theory gravchute in anywhere and not take DTT with the mystics around, yes they'll take a turn of shooting but that's how it goes. The seraphims deepstrike in, again under mystic guidence to flame eventual horde counter attacks.
The scout relic inquisitor goes with the weaponsmiths and get them to midfield on the egde of the shield for melta range to knights and the like (hopefully) so does the dominions, the acolytes does roughly the same but they aren't held up with heavy weapons. The exosists do what they do best and pummel anything worthwhile while hopefully taking a few turns to kill under the shield.
>>46537521
>Eldarhammer 40000: the store.
>>46537521
>Classichammer is taking off at my store. 1500 point games, 1 CAD, that's it.
That fixes nothing. Eldar with a CAD is still going to whip an Ork CAD to bits. Formations are sometimes the only way that lower tier armies stand much of a chance in a casual environment. Hell, the Ork codex is more or less designed to be used Unbound.
>>46531838
>Plasma Pistol
You're not wrong. Sadly I built the unit before I had any intention of playing the game.
>How is command going to order your vets in chimera?
I hadn't thought of this, only played one game before making this and didn't know range was a rule.
>>46533570
>give your chimera to the command squad
A really good idea, thank Anon, I'll do that. Upgrading is a bonus.
>Wyvern into two squads
Good idea. I witnessed how good a single one was for the points they have.
>>46533618
>Drop plasma pistol
I've already made the unit, do people get pissed if you specify a unit doesn't have a specific item even though the physical model does?
>Vanquishers
I'll try out that combo, I've only made one Vanquisher so far which I can use as a command tank.
Cheers for all the help, I'll put a revised version in the thread soon
What are blood angels supposed to do for anti-air? Do i just get copious amounts of missiles or tool up that flying land raider and hope it doesnt go down first?
Hmm, are there any ways to play Warhammer 40k online? I'm really interested in giving it a shot, but at the moment I don't have money for miniatures and I want to make sure that I actually enjoy the game before I start sinking money into it. I can imagine something like this would also be useful for trying out certain armies and whatnot before investing in them.
>>46539202
Tabletop simulator
Any of you guys use house rules?
Me and a few of my friends that I play with just collect MEQ armies and we enjoy playing 1000 pt games with no MCs and no vehicles beside transports. Infantry battles are pretty fun
>>46539202
Search 'Vassal 40k'. It's actually a pretty fun system to use, although it can be a bit messy sometimes.
>>46531571
>>46531838
>>46533570
>>46533618
>>46533843
I've tried to incorporate the feedback, how does this look?
Astra Militarum
Point Goal: 1000
Points Used: 997
HQ [1]
Command Squad [170]
> 1x - Company Commander
> 4x - Veteran; Regimental Standard, Medi-pack, Sniper Rifle
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera; Camo Netting
Troops [2]
Veteran Squad [200]
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 9x - Veterans; 1 Plasma Gun, 2 Melta Gun, Vox-caster, KrGren, Grenadiers
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera; Camo Netting
Veteran Squad [200]
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant
> 9x - Veterans; 1 Plasma Gun, 2 Melta Gun, Vox-caster, KrGren, Grenadiers
> 1x - Dedicated Transport Chimera; Camo Netting
Heavy Support [4]
Wyvern Battery [65]
> 1x - Wyvern; Heavy Flamer
Wyvern Battery [65]
> 1x - Wyvern; Heavy Flamer
Leman Russ Squadron [140]
1x - Leman Russ; Punisher Gatling Cannon
Leman Russ Squadron [155]
1x - Leman Russ; Executioner Plasma Cannon
Which is better for a Ork walker army, Dread Mob or Dredd mob?
Does anyone know where I can find the rules for playing on a deathworld?
>>46539228
spent your last 3 points giving both sergeants and your officer a bolt pistol
>>46539302
*spend
>>46539228
Maybe one of the veterans in the Command Squad a vox-caster. IIRC you need a vox-caster in both the unit giving and receiving orders for it to work
I'd also roll with Leman Russ Battle Tanks if I had the option (since they are anti-everything) but with your point restriction you probably don't
>>46539290
Nevermind I found it
>>46539334
>IIRC you need a vox-caster in both the unit giving and receiving orders for it to work
this is correct
>>46539334
>>46539363
I'm probably wrong, but I know a vox-caster on both ends allows for rerolls on orders. It'd be a moot point to have that if you couldn't order them at all.
Generally speaking, how effective is a squad of marines, tactial/terminators/whatever vs a single Riptide?
>>46539372
If his vets have it and his Commander doesn't he either has 10 points that can be re-allocated or he needs to spend another 5 to grab another vox caster.
Personally I'd boot the med-pack in favour of the vox since because since his vets don't have 4+ any competant unit that can shoot them will probably kill them, and if it's the same fire that wrecked their Chimera it's going to carry Instant Death
>>46539383
How far apart are they?
So some guy has the BL digital codex, according to faeit. any changes in artifacts, traits and any more formations available?
Anything on Crimson Slaughter?
>>46539423
Say within assault range.
>psykers come in sets of 3
>minimum unit size of 5
goddammit GW
>>46539383
Tac Marines can't win without luck
Vanilla Termies do decently.
Hammernators demolish it unless it gets very lucky.
>>46539403
yeah , your company command squad shouldn't be taking hits in the first place and senior officer's orders are really use full so the reroll would be nice for him
>>46539427
If there was it'd be pasted up and down the general as well as in three seperate threads by people that can't confine their complaints to a single one.
>>46539455
GW using Hot-dog theory is old news.
>>46538407
anyone?
