>I'm so creatively bankrupt that I prefer to roll for stats!
>I'm so creatively bankrupt that I prefer pointbuy!
>>46505879
I can't fault anyone for their choices... unless they choose to make the players roll stats.
>>46505961
So bankrupt you had to steal OP's statement
If the entire point was to be creative, why do you even need stats?
>>46506045
There's no reason trying when OP opens with stale copypasta anyway.
>>46505961
>>46505879
>I'm so autistic that I refuse to do anything but pointbuy! My character concept must be followed to the letter, down to stats!
>>46505879
That's funny. I never heard that one before.
>I'm better at roleplay than you are!
sad.
>>46506076
Have you played freeform before? That's why.
>>46506319
If creativity is the only measure by which OP evaluates the success of a game, freeform would be his ideal.
>>46505879
>assigning values = creativity
Ever wonder if you're stupid? If the answer is no, that means you're stupid. This has been proven through research. It's call the D-C effect. Im guessing you think you are neck deep in it.
>>46506016
Our party rolls stats all the time. What's wrong with it?
Point buy just seems so boring.
>>46505879
>I'm so creatively bankrupt i prefer to roll for stats down the line like i'm still playing the blue box and if you do it any other way I'll call you a pussy that hates RP
>No rolling
>No point-buy
>Everyone is assumed to be average in all stats
Now you really need to be creative instead of relying on numbers!
>>46509051
>I'm so creatively bankrupt I start a thread with a single line of green text
>>46506045
So bankrupt you had to defend a shit OP and contribute nothing else.
>>46505879
>creativity means choosing your stats!
This is what gamist rollplayers actually believe.
>>46505879
>I'm so slow I have to plan a character out beforehand. Writing one up after rolling stats is s-scaary!
>>46509218
This sounds like a good idea.
>>46505879
I'm so autistic I'm shivering!
How is choosing your stats to be as efficient as possible more creative than rolling random stats and finding a way to make them work? It literally works in the opposite direction.
I don't even prefer one or the other, I'm just trying to be objective here. Rolling for stats demands an overall more creative process than point-buy by it's inherent structure.
>>46509541
>being cold is a sign of autism
Wow, kill yourself kiddo.
Honestly, at least in D&D it feels that classes are punished too much for not taking certain skills. It doesn't feel safe to go for something other than certain skills with your first three, then the last three skills can be whatever.
When it comes to rolling stats, I tend to feel cheap if I've got better stats than everyone else or like I have less potential if I have worse stats. I don't want to think about the stats all the time and what stats I could have rolled. I'd rather see a more dynamic development of stats.
I don't want to have to pick a high intelligence for my wizard, knowing I'll be screwed later on if I don't. I want to do things like start with a stupid wizard who can do other things, but over time he gets more intelligence or maybe he never does. Okay, we call that a sorcerer but let's not go into that.
What am I doing wrong with my life?
>>46509591
Rolling stats
4+3=7
The dice limit what you have available.
Point buy
Z=X+Y
You choose z (character concept) then pick stats to accommodate this.
Array
Z= 4+3 or 2+5 or 1+6
>>46509781
how much glue do you sniff on a daily basis?
>>46509330
>high wordcount = good thread
You poor misguided soul.
>>46509781
>You choose z (character concept) then pick stats to accommodate this.
Hahahahahahahaha no, faggot. Point-buyers first choose race and class, then choose the optimal stats, then make a clumsy backformed story for their min-maxed bullshit character.
>>46509591
Rolling stats limit what you're allowed to do based on how the dice fall.
If you view roleplaying as a creativity competition then I guess you'd get docked points for not rolling, but if you want to play a competent swordsman who's tough enough to take a blow for his team you aren't going to get very far when your highest rolled stats are a bunch of 13s.
>>46509856
>good threads consist of greentext shitposting
>>>/v/
>>46509051
Sometimes it just fucks over one character in particular. If you're an awesome RPer then it can work, but it sucks to be someone who isn't particularly good at anything in a party of competent badasses.
>>46510114
You can always become the ass of every joke and play as a literal joke of a character and ruin the seriousness of the campaign.
Except nobody will drag your body to be resurrected.
>>46506158
>Defending pointbuy
>>46510114
>but it sucks to be someone who isn't particularly good at anything in a party of competent badasses
Any normal group will just ask you if you wanna reroll. Anyone that FORCES you to keep crap stats is just being a dick.
>>46510114
itt: buttmad rollfags reeeeeeing after being called out
How you faggots can justify the possibility of one of your friends being fucked over from day one due to sheer luck is beyond me
>b-but they can play creatively and that'll help!!
Yeah, and martials aren't fucking useless in the shit editions of D&D.
THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS:
HOW DO YOU MIX POINT BUY WITH ROLLING
>>46510348
>generalized "itt" to try to cast the net as wide as possible
>"buttmad" and "faggots" flags set
>preemptive stuttering strawman quote
Cookie-cutter b8. 1/10, would sneer at pityingly again.
>>46510391
Maybe like this:
1- Roll one month info of your character.
2- Create his next 5 years and story using pointbuy
3-go back to 2 until you arrive at the desirable age
PS: you must save some points on step 2 to use it on later steps
>>46509202
WRONG!last time I checked he was playing 4th edition
>>46510154
That, and being the butt of a joke for an entire campaign.. That's like making a character based off one bad joke, it gets boring two sessions in.
>>46505879
>>46505961
>I'm so much of a uncreative asshat, that I don't use the superior elite array.
It's like you faggots hate fun.
>>46506671
The most derivative RP experiences I have had have been freeform.
>>46505879
Rolling for stats gave me a campaign villain, so make like a tree and get printed into FATAL.
>>46510482
>implying it's not true
Yes, your impotent, frustrated tears are delicious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K9mKpAMREU
Skip to the 9-minute mark. This guy knows what's up.
>jerky mc jerkface
>okay, he's not so bad that you'd kick him out of the campaign but you still don't like him
>he rolls really good stats
>he minmaxes
>even if you reroll bad stats if you get them, he still has good stats and nobody will make them reroll good stats
>GM likes them enough as a friend or whatever to not kick them out anyway and it'd ruin the atmosphere
What now fuckers
>>46509740
Playing D&D.
You clearly want to play a different system.
>>46505879
Gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8
>>46510759
>Dark Heresy
>jerky mc jerkface
>blah blah blah
>see before, good stats
>same thing happens
What now?
GURPS?
>>46510348
>shit editions of D&D
That would imply there are non-shit editions.
>>46509871
>le stormwind fallacy
>>46510257
If you're going to re-roll until you get the stats you want, why not just cut out the fucking middle-man and go point-buy?
>>46510257
Literally every group I've ever been, and they've been a lot, even in different countries which makes me think that good players and good GMs are the minority
>>46510842
4e.
>inb4 hurr mmo with dice
Or BECMI
>>46510596
I did, my monk died in the first encounter
>>46510842
>>46510909
Less about getting the stats you want and more about getting someone who isn't crap at everything/who can pull their weight in the group.
No one's going to have any fun when only one of their stats is above 10.
>>46510909
Because rolling dice is fun.
I have my players roll 3d6 in order, and if their stats fuck up their character, like a wizard with 3 Int, then I let them swap at the most two stats around.
>>46510257
This
I let my players reroll if they net below 72
though the only time I've ever seen someone complain was throwing a tantrum because they had no 18s and had one 9, the rest were 16s through 12s
>>46510842
>>46511073
Play the game where everyone uses the exact same lineup of stats. No, your wizard cannot swap his 16 STR with his 10 INT because that means he's min/maxing.
>>46510842
>>46511328
>My opinion is the only one that matters
>>46511394
Yes.
>>46511328
>never partake in intellectual debates
Good thing the entire content of the post was "IT'S SHIT STOP LIKING IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" instead of any arguments as to why, huh?
>>46510973
>playing a monk.
In 3.5?
>>46511328
Except anon never made an argument to be rebutted, he just shitposted.
>>46511374
>>46511261
>>46511328
>>46511328
It sure is Tumblr in here.
>>46511485
>>46510973
How much less shit does a 3.5 monk get if you use the Lost Tradition* feat?
*can pick what ability score you want to be your casting stat at first level. Meaning you can make a muscle wizard or a cleric with lots of turning attempts and bonus spells by changing from wisdom to charisma
The biggest fallacy people commit when it comes to rolling for stats is the assumption that the GM isn't allowed to let players re-roll if they roll really badly.
>>46511731
No idea, I never played a class that much of a cluster fuck in 3.PF
>>46510114
The best character I ever played was a guy with a 9, 3 4s, a 7 and a 3.I played him as an asshole weeb edgelord who used a katana (with a -10 to his attack rolls and it did 1d8-6 damage) with brass knuckles(-12 to attack 1d3-2 damage).
>>46505879
>I'm so fiscally bankrupt I play with pirated .pdfs
>>46509202
Let's be honest here, who else likes this guy? He sparked my interest in DnD when I still thought it was for faggots and betas.
>>46513342
Me here, my friend showed me his videos and in a week I went from a basement dweller to going to game stores three times a week to play Dnd with other basement dwellers.
>>46510909
see >>46511106
It's literally about random generation of stats without making a retarded character, and seeing what you can do with them. If the character is weak/unplayable any normal group will say you can reroll. If they force you to keep stats that are absolutely terrible you shouldn't be playing with them.
>>46505879
Roll for them anyway.
Take feats and traits that explode the fuck out of your good stats so you rarely, if ever, hav eto rely on the bad ones.
>>46513092
best =/= my favorite
>>46513221
But muh ctrl F
I always point buy because I need to round out whatever group I'm playing with, so they can have more fun and not get fucked by particular situations.
I've played with a rogue and a bard who were both diplomat skill monkeys, so I just rolled up a two weapon sword and shield fighter who acted as the bards bodyguard.
Anytime combat came, they got to do all the tricksy m, but interesting shit they wanted cuz I was busy pissing off all the enemies and doing a decent job doing enough damage to hold their attention.
Whatever my group looks like, I'll just play something to make it so the night never really has a moment where things stall too hard.
>>46510272
>if you want to do the 3d6 method, use 4 ones, 3 twos, 2 threes, 2 fours, 3 fives and 4 sixes.
Why not just three of each?
That said, I use card draws with 3 of each when doing osr games. It just feels nice, you know?
>>46510810
wod, perhaps?
Rolled 5, 4, 3, 2, 6, 2, 1, 1, 5, 6, 2, 6, 6, 2, 3, 1, 5, 5 = 65 (18d6)
Well I'll take that as an excuse to demonstrate this method.
We begin with 3d6 for each six stats. Eighteen dice in all.
>>46506045
OP its ok that your premise was flawed and shot down easily by the first post.
>>46514175
>Str12
>Dex10
>Con6
>Int14
>Wis11
>Cha11
All right, we're looking at a guy who is stronger and smarter than average, but eternally sickly. I'd make him some kind of war vet who took some serious internal damage back in his service days. Or had his immune system put through a ringer by some trench or siege warfare. Maybe a Barbarian that uses his Rages to offset his low HP.
>>46511073
>>46511328
>>46511501
Does anyone have the version where the angel flies back up and he goes "I still don't like thing"?
>rolling for stats in WotC D&D
WotC's greater emphasis on stats means that you're probably fucking yourself hard by rolling.
>>46505879
Gotta get those (you)'s.
>>46513943
>Why not just three of each?
Because it's really hard to get 18s that way. Think about it; if you've already drawn a 6 for any of the other scores, it's impossible for you to get an 18 from then on, if you only have three of each. The end result is that you end up with a much steeper bell curve.
>>46514340
IMHO I'd run him as a Wizard due to that 14 INT. It may be not as high as you might normally want but he would be decent in a fight even though he bruises like a peach.
>>46510272
>>46513943
>>46514959
Honestly, 4 aces, 2 twos, 3 threes, 3 fours, 2 fives, and 4 sixes (the top right graph in the pic) gives you the closest results to the 3d6 bell curve, but either of the top two are good. The bottom two are rubbish.
>>46514340
This right here is the reason rolling is retarded
All this is is a cool character concept with and emphasis on concept, this character is absolutely awful, I've seen wizards that are stronger and more resilient than this guy
He's going to completely fold to any form of combat, he will die to a strong breeze not to mention his fortitude save will be max 0 at level 1
I don't care how good of a player you think you are you are not going to be able to make this work
>>46515431
Nah, it's fine, he's only on -1 HP per hit die, 50% System Shock, and 55% Resurrection Save. Not even any penalties to his poison save (which only come into play at CON 1 or 2 anyway).
>>46510391
You roll 7d6. You can then assign them as you please to your stats, which start at 8 baseline. You can assign multiple dice to a single stat, but you can't go over 18.
>>46513342
I like his stuff, don't agree with everything he says, but it is okay that people have different playstyles. And I like his meandering rants.
why would you roll for stats instead of pointbuy?
I guess if you didn't have a character in mind?
>>46515473
Rolling works fine in earlier systems, because a low or average score doesn't hurt you nearly as much there. You don't usually get any real significant bonus from a score until you hit 15 or so, and you don't start getting severe penalties until around 7.
In early D&D, >>46514340 is a fine character, because it's very strictly average, with the exception of Con. Compared to another fighter, he'll have a point less of HP per level, and be dishing out slightly lower damage than someone with higher strength. He'll still be better in a straight fight than the Cleric or Rogue, and that gulf will only get wider as they level.
In 3.5, that character is basically garbage for anything except maybe a Wizard, and that's only due to how ridiculous wizards can be. He'll die to a stiff breeze and all of his attacks and spells are dealing with the system assuming he's supposed to be at a +4 by now.
5e arguably has it functional as well. He's low on HP, but that can more easily be made up with by Racial choice. A Hill dwarf with those stats wouldn't lose any HP at all. 14 Int is only 1 below what you could get with pointbuy anyway, and it doesn't change the modifier. If you accept the low HP, you can easily get a +Int race to make up the difference at start with an even 16. Still only really useful for playing a Wizard though.
Suffice to say, different editions have vastly different expectations about what acceptable stats are.
>>46513221
what happens when the company doesn't release a pdf version of the game, so if you want a digitial copy you'll have to get a shitty photo copied version of the pdf.i bought the actual physical copies of said books.
>>46513342
His FMV Hell and Reb Brown videos were funny. His D&D stuff is rambling.
>>46515683
Some people are crazy enough to have a fleshed out concept and roll for them anyway.
Rolling is better. Otherwise you end up with optimized characters that wipe encounters off the map in one round, two if he rolled a 1-2 for all his attack rolls.
Both are completely valid
Point buy is better for more balanced systems, while rolled stats is better for unbalanced systems, allowing underpowered classes/builds to be viable, and overpowered classes/builds to be less broken.
Either way it should be the GM who decides if you can use those stats, so in that sense, it all comes down to personal preference, based on the GM, which one you use. Unless you have a shit GM, which ever you use should be the one that creates the most balanced party, allowing maximum fun for everyone
>>46515905
All of his stuff is rambling from what I've seen.
>>46505879
Point-buy is for rollplaying scrubs. It results in carbon-copy characters without a single interesting trait in them.
At least when you roll, you get unconventional stat arrays that force you to think outside the box or play characters who aren't copypasted hackjobs.
>>46518715
Agreed. Point-buy makes boring characters. I have not seen a single exception.
>Roll for stats
Create character within the constraints of the rolls, making you play a character you've never played before
>Point buy ( what you think you do )
Think of a character concept and then choose class, race and stats
>Point buy ( what you actually do )
Choose class, race, stats, then make something up to justify your minmaxing
There's a lot of strawmen going around but point buy is honestly superior to rolling.
>all pointbuyers are minmaxers!
kek, is having an actually competent character minmaxing now?
>not being able to appreciate and work with both
>>46519413
>It's just a coincidence that all the characters I make have the best possible point buy stats for that build!
I highly doubt you've ever made a fighter and decided to dump strength and dexterity and put it all into wisdom or intelligence.
>>46519386
>what you think you do
>what you actually do
I don't know who taught you that you're a psychic who knows the motivations behind other people's actions better than they themselves do, but I certainly hope you didn't give them any money.
>>46518715
>At least when you roll, you get unconventional stat arrays
only 3d6 down the line does that, and hardly anybody uses that anymore. Most people use 4d6 drop the lowest then rearrange, which does absolutely nothing to prevent people from just putting the highest roll in their main stat and the lowest roll in their dump stat. My fighter having an 8 INT compared to Steve's fighter having a 9 is not an interesting variation between two characters.
3d6 down the line is perfect for randomized characters in dungeon crawls while arrays (and/or PB) is the perfect system for long character driven games. Unfortunately we get this retarded compromise between the two that accomplishes literally nothing.
>>46519442
>current character is a 5E battlemaster
>15Str, 10Dex, 8Con, 12Int, 14Wis, 13Cha
Get out of my house you ruffian
>>46519460
>My fighter having an 8 INT compared to Steve's fighter having a 9 is not an interesting variation between two characters.
also thinking about it, 5e takes a step in the right direction with this. Giving players the option to randomly roll for character backgrounds, motivations, personality, etc is what makes for interesting and unique characters. not a line of numbers that fall in slightly different places on a bell curve
>>46519460
>3d6 down the line
>lowest stat raised to 16 so everyone's guaranteed to be good at something
>Can reroll one stat with 4d6 drop lowest, but all other stats are reduced by 1
My players are pretty satisfied with it. YMMV
>>46513342
I do like his work, espeially the older stuff.
As the other anon said, I don't agree with him on some things, but so what?
He's pretty fucking entertaining, once he actually manages to put something out.
Plus, if you watch through his library, you can practically see him crumbling apart , to the point of one video just being him drunk, miserable and rambling, and slowly rebuilding himself. It's fascinating really.
>>46519496
I'll agree with this. Sometimes I have a concept before I even take out my paper and pencil, but sometimes I'm stuck and rolling for these makes it a fun exercise in making X, Y, and Z work together.
>>46510684
>that slight misuse of words
>using "creatively bankrupt" as a synonym for "I don't like thing"
I see a lot of pseudo intellectuals around here. Sad!
>>46510257
In particular because if you don't get to reroll you're just gonna create a new character or throw your existing one into as much danger as possible to get him killed sooner. Then again, doing so can also create some amazing stories when that character actually manages to pull through despite his subpar stats.
But yeah, if a player really wants to reroll his stats there's no real reason to stop him.
>>46509838
>simple math confuses and scares me! don't use it or I'll insult you!
>>46505879
>Not rolling for stats
>Not basing how you roleplay based on how your character naturally is
>Not allowing yourself new and interesting roleplay challenges
>Not allowing yourself to have bad rolls that give your character deep flaws
>>46519623
It's fun to do that with dice, but you can also do all that before you roll and then use point buy to give your character an appropriate approximation of what you'd need to make sense of it.
Neither is inherently better for roleplay purposes. One assumes you don't already have a concept in mind, the other assumes you do. Both require creativity to do right, both require improv skills and at least a little acting talent to make memorable.
>>46506319
freeform DND is pretty much like the D&D episode of community, with one asshole who knows the rules super well powergames and bunnies everyone
>>46505879
i prefer to roll for stats because there is more room for creativity. following some point system to assign stats limits your possibilities.
for example you could roll really high a couple times but the rest would be shit so your character has one main purpose and you have to rely on your party to handle your flaws e.g no charisma meaning you avoid all conversations and just hang back as muscle or high charsima but low strength and dex so you do all the talking and when it comes to fights you hang back and distract the enemies and cheer on your team.
assigning points makes everyone really average at everything
>>46519692
>bunnies
What does this mean?
>>46519711
Unless you use the points you're given to do exactly that, you incredible moron.
>>46506674
Kruger is with a K anon.
>>46519736
bunnying is leaving people with no choice but the railroad. It doesn't have to be the DM who does it, but it's shitty and no fun. Best example I can think of *besides* Pierce from community is how Spoony's Vampire game went.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3AEBnH1kAM&t=11m29s
>>46510114
yeah i agree with >>46510257
when my group rolls for stats we decide what the base lowest points should be until you have to reroll, the base lowest goes up the more high rollers you get and if you get close to the base lowest you can be allowed to plus 2 or 4 onto a shit stat so you can hang with the rest of the group.
i guess it comes down to are you playing with friends or rage tards who will force you to play with shit stats or are they tards that will say you have to use a point system because everyone has to be mediocre and their characters can have no particular flavour
>>46519711
>I want super high STR because FIGHTAN MAN
>Oh, high scores are expensive
>I guess I'll lower INT. I won't be using it
>Oh, if I want to keep my DEX and CON decent, I'll need to sacrifice a little more
>I don't need all that DEX, I'll leave it more average
>Maybe I'll leave a couple extra points in WIS in case of magical saves, but I'll have to take a small CHA dip to balance out the points
>Huh. High STR, average DEX, decent CON, low INT, decent WIS, and mediocre CHA.
>Well, he could be a barbarian. Rough around the edges and not very educated, but he has the insight and discipline to be observant and cunning. Strong, tough, but maybe being stealthy is a sort of a dishonorable thing in his culture so he never focused on it beyond being quick enough to not get pounced on by a tiger.
Pretty easy to do that with PB too.
>>46505879
>I'm so creatively bankrupt I create a thread with copypasta older than my grandmother!
>>46519810
I mean, we're having fun with it, so at least OP did something right.
>>46519809
yeah but your other stats dont have to be low, if you roll you might get only one really high stat, or you may get 3 or 4. but when you play point system you can pretty much be sure that you're gonna get 3 above average stats then 3 below average stats
Congratulations /tg/, you fell for a /fit/ meme that originally died when posted here.
>>46519848
>what is intentionally not using all your points if you don't need them
If you're that desperate to have low scores, you can have them. If you're cruising for three 18s and a 16, nobody cares about your problems.
>>46519860
>implying /tg/ does not knowingly and willingly jump into troll threads for a bit of fun discourse and exchange of opinions all the time
Are you new here?
>>46519754
fuck off. rolling and using points end up with the same results only rolling gives you more variety and allows your character to be good at something rather than just average.
for example i made a monk by rolling and a level 1 his stats had 20 dex, 18 wisdom and a natural armor of 19. he was bad ass and suited my character well because i want my monk to be a strong fighter but if i rolled my character would have been shit and only reached decent after half way through the campaign.
i hate grinding just to get out of the shit into the real game.
>>46519878
No, because every time you think you are being clever and trolling the troll you just make them come back until they overrun the board.
As a group, we are not as clever as you think. This will be reposted and a fresh batch of posters will come screaming from the hills like thIs shit was not here the same week.
>>46519923
>trolling the troll
That was never the plan. The plan was to discuss whether we prefer point buy or rolling, throw a few jokes at each other and occasionally argue why we like one over the other to see if either of us might have missed something the other picked up on.
The OP stops mattering about ten seconds after it's been posted.
>>46519878
>implying we dont all know this
>implying we dont enjoy expressing our opinions as if they are facts and having a big circle jerk of anger
>>46519951
That's exactly what I was implying. Did you misquote?
Rolling for stats has forced me into using dex as my primary damage stat. In trying to make it work mechanically and have those mechanics somewhat align with the fluff and flavor of my character I'm playing a swashbuckling roguish Musketeer daring-do guy instead of the more uninspired "army captain gone mercenary" backstory I had originally planned.
While I can appreciate a good point-buy and designing the crunch of your character from the original concept, there's nothing wrong with a little improvisational design.
>>46519912
>I want to start out strong
Then agree on a higher point budget, you mong.
>>46519987
Derring-do. Army captain gone mercenary and musketeer swashbuckler are equally uninspired.
>>46519967
yep sure did
>>46520004
In my experience the former is about as rote as "the plot hook is your family got kidnapped by the BBEG"
>>46512585
This. My AD&D GM has us roll 3d6 straight down. No arrangement.
Even he lets us reroll a stat if it's something ridiculous like 4 or 3.
>>46519871
>>what is intentionally not using all your points if you don't need them
This never actually happens and you know it. Rolling randomly makes things fair and honest.
I don't see the point of rolling for stats. If you allow for rerolls, it becomes just a means by which to inflate your stats.
If you are the kind of guy who likes to pick race and class after rolling stats, you can always do randomized arrays.
I remember in High School, our DM had a rule where we rolled for HP as usual, but if you got a bad roll, you could take the average value instead. All this meant was everyone's HP is about 1.5 times higher. House rules are fine but it seems suspect to just want to inflate stats under the guise of fairness.
