What's the alignment of someone who brainwashes people in powerful positions to stop exploiting poor countries or the environment, effectively destroying their personality?
>>46486532
chaotic good
According to the Book of Exalted Deeds, lawful good.
According to the Book of Vile Darkness, chaotic evil.
Stupid retarded, because they're using alignments in the first place.
>>46486532
Brainwashing people for your own ends, even if those ends are good, is evil.
>>46486532
i would say chaotic good because he forces someone to do something they dont want although for a greater good
>>46486532
Lawful Good.
I'd say they're definitely Evil. Because they're doing this with good intentions, I wouldn't say they're Chaotic but more Neutral.
Chaotic Good.
>>46486532
I think it depends on more then judging one act.
I think it relies on the entier context of the character.
I think outside of this alignment becomes a futil argument.
I think that's why alignment has the rep it does.
>>46486594
Got a rules cite for that?
>>46486532
They're evil. Sounds like a good campaign villain.
>ITT: people think DnD alignment works according to their personal moral standards
>>46486954
Which books would you recommend reading in order to learn how to correctly place a character's alignment?
>>46486568
This. It is arbitrary nonsense.
>>46486551
>>46486603
>>46486709
Destroying someone's freedom is the opposite of a chaotic character's ideals. They'd be acting against their alignment doing that.
>>46486592
Also this
>>46486592
/thread
>>46486532
D&D alignments aren't made for complex moral dilemmas.
>>46486738
>I think it depends on more then judging one act.
>I think it relies on the entier context of the character.
>I think outside of this alignment becomes a futil argument
This
OP descibes an evil act done for good and the lawfulness of it is subject to context.
>>46486532
OP, you are asking for the alignment of a person, but only speak of one act.
In a vacuum, the act is neutral, possibly Lawful or Chaotic depending on context.
>>46487038
No, Chaotic refers to ones own willingness to do things outside the box. A lawful and a chaotic character might have the same end goal but have different methods of getting there.
In this situation, a lawful character would obey the letter of the law and things that are generally excepted as morally acceptable. The chaotic character only cares about the end result, and will do whatever it takes to get there, even doing things that others would judge him negatively for or would go against previously stated morals.
Good and evil are more arbitrary in that sense.
>>46487071
If only there were some venue where rpg concepts could be discussed, applying them to scenarios beyond those of their original intent, perhaps using the internet and images in some fashion.
>>46486532
Every part of that description is chaotic evil.
>>46486532
Doing good deeds by vile means is a decidedly neutral approach. Lawful/chaotic depends on the specifics, but it's probably lawful.
> Change Alignment, Greater (Su)
>Prerequisites: Alchemist 20, change alignment discovery, infusion discovery
>Benefits: Once per day as part of his preparation of infusions, the alchemist can brew an infusion that shifts the imbiber's alignment to good permanently; this alignment shift can only be reversed by a wish or miracle. The effects of this infusion may have serious repercussions for a creature suddenly struggling with a new outlook. Many see it as little more than forced insanity, and some good faiths outlaw its use. A permanent, forced change of alignment may be devastating, and some believe it is little better than zealous slavery or mind control. Others consider a good alignment brought about by any means but purity of heart an affront to freedom. This discovery remains controversial at best.
But if it's only used on Evil people, it should be fine, right?
>>46487038
How stupid can one person be
>>46486532
Classic example of a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Who is pretty cliché as far as villains go.
Evil.
>>46487329
Try that shit for 40 minutes in actual game sessions.
Alignment is bad and should go.
Liberal Bern Victim
also known as beta cuck race traitor
>>46487507
Discussing alignments during a gaming session for 40 minutes sounds awful.
That's not the forum I was thinking of.
Alignments are fine in the hands of the non- stupid.
>>46486532
"The ends justifies the means" is Neutral Evil.
>>46486532
Characters of any alignment could choose to take this action.
Alignment might be the basis of the reason why a characters might take an action and wether thier actions are good or bad depends on thier intentions.
>>46486532
>what alignment
Chaotic Stupid.
Okay, follow-up question:
What's the alignment of mind-wiped victims of psychic battery, targeted by Rainbow Warriors who couldn't understand that giving impoverished villagers their first paying jobs is called "employment" and that "the environment" can easily defend itself from some turd world landfill?
>>46489745
For most of these people, "good intentions" is a thin excuse for doing whatever the hell they want.
Look how many climate change advocates live in mansions and spend all their time garnering huge speaking fees for flying around the world to paid speaking gigs and climate summits.
It's called "virtue signalling". The idea is that if you look like you're doing the right thing and can tell yourself that what you're doing is the right thing, then it doesn't matter what you do. Go look up the supreme court decision Buck v Bell. They told themselves that it was all for the best, too.
>>46486532
Well-intentioned Evil
>>46489972
>implying eugenics is a bad idea
>>46486532
A character of any alignment might do this, for better reasons or worse.
Acts aren't alignment; characters are. Alignment tells us about their attitude towards general concepts, not what a given individual must do in a given situation.
A CG character might do this without realizing his hypocrisy in preserving the freedoms of others at the cost of the freedoms of a few.
A NE character might do this because he holds a grudge against the establishment, the means are available, and he thinks he can get away with it. A nation-sized 'fuck you' to the individuals he's controlling, undoing all their hard work.
A TN character might do this if they feel the cosmic balanced demands these changes be made at any cost.
And so on.A good roleplayer would develop their character's individual response to this interesting ethical situation.
>>46487862
>>46490788
This.
>>46486532
Druid/Paladin multiclass
>>46486532
liberal
>>46487038
>Robin Hood isn't Chaotic Good because he's infringing on the freedoms of the rich he robs.
C'mon man.
>>46486532
>Brainwashing someone, destroying their personality is somehow different from just murdering them
if your characters are okay with murder, there's no reason they'll be getting evil points for this. It's even better than just shanking corrupt nobles, as it doesn't leave power vaccuum, ready to be filled by next generation of assholes.
>>46486532
I don't know about the alignment, but the class is Social Justice Specialist Mage.
>>46487781
Not when end is good from the beginning.
I'd say neutral good/chaotic good. After all it's used to make world a lot better. It depends on whether PCs are on his or overlords' side, whether it's already done or in process. But all the interpretations in this thread show what a failure alignments are as arbitral descriptions.
>>46495879
No, the projected ends are always 'good' from the beginning. That's the point. It doesn't make the means at all excusable.
>>46486532
Lawful Neutral or True Neutral.
>"Neutral is the best alignment you can be because it means you act naturally, without prejudice or compulsion."
-3.5 SRD
Sounds a lot like True Neutral to me. Borderline questionable methods just to retain a more natural balance of things. Waiting until everything goes to shit and only THEN ruining the perpetrator's day out of principle is exactly what a True Neutral would do.
>>46486532
W/U
Subjective Neutral
>>46487071
Or, if depends on what gods of good think about it
Describe what you mean by destroying their personality. This is integral to determination of the alignment.
OP here, how interesting. The answers we got are
>LG
>NG
>CG
>LN
>N
>NE
>CE
>any alignment
Just nobody said Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil explicitly.
And lots of arguing about how depending on how this is too little to judge or how this shows why alignments don't work in the first place.
I'm not a huge advocate of alignments myself, but I don't mind them either. I was mostly wondering whether an adventuring party would think it is somebody who needs to be stopped, and reading all of this I guess that's a good way to split a party if one so desires.
>>46497980
I like this answer. Are there cards/characters like this in MtG?
>>46498333
Same person, full memories, but suddenly has a complete change in personality and is fine with that (because he has been programmed to be).
>>46498639
shit, meant Lawful Evil
>>46498639
>Same person, full memories, but suddenly has a complete change in personality and is fine with that (because he has been programmed to be).
In that case Chaotic Good
>>46498639
The easiest way to answer this question is to doa few things.
Split Intentions and Actions into Internal and External influences.
Diagram each into best camp. Do some weighing, and possibly put a lens-of-the-class over it. (standing up for nature and the little man? That a psion pretending to be a druid)
Example:
Wanting to save the environment. Internal, intention - neutral to good.
Wanting to stand up for the abused an exploited - internal, good.
vs
Brainwashing to get it - external, action, evil. Maybe, ~maybe~ neutral if we're talking off switches, or efforts to rehabilitate after you've got what you want - but as presented with op's information, hella evil.
Chaotic influences are hard to judge, and it goes down to whether your character processes it as an internal or external influence, which is why seperating it and using more fidelity is so important.
A chaotic but good meaning rogue who goes outside the law to get work done (han solo like archetype, harpers) chafes against Law, but ultimately getting stuff done for his agendas/goals/friends trumps the needs of the people he encounters and deals with.
Versus a chaotic character like, say, a paladin of freedom that is equally liberated from legality, but would would never trample or act against the freedom and individuality of others, as imposing your will on others and making them do what is both a lawful influence and an injustice when its forced.
I'd say one of a few things
'Youre true neutral, but haha you're pretty much not going to stay there due to extreme methodology. lets see which way you break'
Lawful, if its more about imposing your will on the way Things Should Be According To You.
Chaotic, if you're standing up for how it was before the Evil Town-Ruining Corporations Came To Town.
Good, if you're trying to make things better for your people and their country.
Neutral if you care about nature more.
And sliding towards evil because methodology.
More info needed
>>46487666
But the thing is that anyone who isn't stupid just ignores them.
>>46487038
>chaotic
>ideals
lel no. Chaotic Good is someone who'd do anything to stop evil. It is exactly the alignment of a who would brainwash an evil guy for greater good.
Yes, CGs value freedom. But evil people don't deserve the privilege of freedom.
It would be Lawful Good and maybe Neutral Good people who may not want to do that kind of thing.
>>46500168
>anyone who isn't stupid just ignores them.
Or uses them as rough characterization guidelines and, in the case of D&D, actual planar polarity.
A CG elf rogue plays differently than a NE elf rogue.
A LE bandit npc will play different than a CN bandit npc.
Once you've fleshed out and played with a character for a while and the become familiar, they become Named Namerson instead of Alignment Race Class, but you can still use the brief summation when describing them in a nutshell to someone new.
Why ignore a tool if it's there to be used?
Tools are fine in the hands of the non-stupid.
>>46494437
Robin Hood is lawful good because he's conducting a guerilla war against the enemies of the rightful King of England.
