>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
Chaos is getting double updates edition
>>46481165
>Chaos is getting double updates edition
Call em downdates. So far there is nuthin gud init
>Black Legion Warband gets conditional preferred enemy
>vs Demi-Company's Objective Secured and bonus Tactical Doctrine card to pop
>Khorne warband gets free marks +1 strength on good charges and waaaaagh equivalent
>Skyhammer gives charge out of deep strike, and relentless devastators with pinning on 3d6 and overwatch denial for 1 turn
Black Legion decurion better be amazing, because right now loyalists are getting great formations while Chaos is only getting decent formations.
If the Crimson Slaughter supplement allows us to mix and match artifacts, I could run my TS CAD as CS to give my Sorc the Balestar of Mannon for Divination while keeping my DP's Black Mace.
That'd be pretty baller. Might make his Terminator deepstrike retinue a bit more worthwhile, being bodyguards. Not that divination is any good though, at least not in that context.
>>46481249
If you run Thousand Sons, check out the Chaos version of the Librarius Conclave.
>30" puppet master every turn, can't be avoided via leadership check, gets channeling dice so you still have plenty left for your other powers
I want to play with a fun battle with a friend of mine as ally, but he plays orks while i do imperial guard and refuses because "muh lore"
i need some shitty rp reasons to change his mind
>>46481303
Yeah, but dont you need three 6's (in a limited dice pool, not your WC dice pool) to manifest it?
It's funny, thats about it. Those Sorcerers will get blown off the table turn 1 by most armies.
>>46481334
Blood Axe Orks?
Against a common enemy an alliance like that will hold....for a time. Think of DoW Winter assault. There was an alliance between orks and CSM. Inevitable fell apart, but you could simulate that if, when you win write down every unit still on the table and not fleeing. And fight with what you have over the spoils of war.
>Huh, why the hell do Vespids even need Hit and run? They have really average stats so you-
>Initiative 6
>fleet
>>46481364
Pretty sure you need 3 x 4+ to manifest it, since you're casting a power, not countering one. And since we're talking a level 3 sorcerer with a spell familiar casting it, it's all good.
Also
>not hiding your sorcerers in metal boxes/squads
>>46481399
>Taufag delusion
Why are you even surprised, friend?
>>46481303
I do, I was in the other thread bringing it up. It's quite nice.
>>46481364
Nah, you get an extra dice per dude not casting the specific psychic power within 12". Also yeah, I'm bubblewrapping the conclave in a 16-man Rubric squad (plus the Aspiring Sorc).
The only fear is how many wounds I'll fuck myself with via perils.
>>46481438
because I'm used to units that like to pretend they're 'melee' i.e kroot
So the Chosen of Abaddon formation is like a Deathwing army list for Chaos, 1-4 HQ and each HQ comes with a unit of vets or Terminators.
>Free Gift of Mutation for HQs in addition to any gift you buy for them
>HQs are fearless and must always be joined to their squads
So if you take Chaos Lords they become double Fearless?
>>46481516
Kroot? What's that? I've never seen one.
>>46481528
Well I think there is one psychic power that strips fearless. So as backup....
2 Theories:
| CSM-Lords lose fearless in the next codex
|| The Writer did not know, CSM lords are fearless
>>46481516
yeah or like commander smashfucker...
oh wait he actually is melee
>Space Marine Superfriends can now create, very easily, 2++ Rerollable Hammernators
>Plus whatever other bonuses you want to tack onto there (Invisibility, Biomancy, etc.)
I'm not really sure how I feel about this.
Will this mean that we see a resurgence in Termies?Probably not since they're still super-slow.
But it makes a Deathstar featuring them more disgusting I suppose.
>>46481721
A Bike Command Squad would also work.
>CSM finally gets something for the new edition
>It's not one but two books of the same shit no one bought the first time
>It's written by the typical chimps and mongoloids
>Repacks everywhere
>Sorcerer Conclave with extremely powerful mind-control spell
Thousand Sons coven?
>Khorne company with once per game old-school fleet and free marks
World Eaters warband?
>Warpsmith that has its pet daemon engines target a specific enemy and can be a spotter for one of them
Iron Warriors Warsmith?
>Daemon Prince and better Possessed that sperg out when it isn't nearby
Word Bearers Lorgar + Gal Vorbak?
Why doesn't GW just give Chaos an Angels of Death book like it's doing for loyalists? Surely it can't be hard to stat up decurion lists and relics for the more neglected legions.
Reiterated shitpost clearing compilation to clean the thread before it starts.
>Melee Race, I2, Orkurion, Blitz Brigade.
>When are they going to fix Tyranids?
>"All x-race players are y"
>D Weapons
>Super Heavies
>Baleflamer Salamander ruling
>Complaining about Woofs
>Complaining about Eldar, Tau, or Crons.
>CSM real update never :^)
So with those new muhreen powers, can GK's now have 3++ on all their units? Personally I think those new disciplines should be universal, or they should patch up the disciplines that already exist.
>>46481571
>>46481528
are sorcerors fearless?
What would be the most anti-marine list possible for your army at 500 pts?
Close quarters and a maze-like scenario.
>>46481909
They would never do something like that anon
>>46482005
Genestealers?
>>46481165
>>46481176
Why the fuck do we have two generals?Created within 1 minute of each other
>>46482005
Tyranids: spam rending claw warriors or genestealers
Space Marines: tacticals with special+combi grav or plasma, vets with special+combi grav or plasma or lightning claws
Has there been anything on a start collecting: CSM?
>>46482098
Not yet.
If they release one it will probably be Lord/Sorcerer + 10 marines + terminators or daemon engine
>>46482098
No. Be honest. Why would you want something. Start Playing CSM
Its like Trendy Hobbies: self-mutilation:
>>46482137
And the Great Formation:
Fear the wrath of the Astartes
All members of this formation have the fear rules against Space Marines*
See codex CSM for details
>>46482137
You better believe those ancient sprues of CSM are getting shoved into a CSM start collecting box. Along with cultists, the Termi HQ blister, and maybe a Helbrute, but more likely 3 bikes.
CSM is a dead faction until Q3/4 2017, when their codex gets updated to Blood Angel power levels.
Playing against Khorne Daemonkin next weekend and am confused about how the blood tithe summoning works. When my opponent summons bloodletters from blood tithe, do they scatter at all if deep struck or if they arrive near a banner they don't scatter at all? Also, do blood tithe summoned creatures also generate blood tithe when they die?
Because my friend played against Sisters last weekend and he must've summoned 10 separate units of bloodletters just off of blood tithe generated from previously summoned bloodletters. And that seems a little sketchy.
Evidently I found the wrong 40k General.
Would anyone mind running through the good Imperial Fists, Black Templar, and Crimson Fists stories out there in the BL? Thanks. 40k or HH are fine.
>>46482323
>Imperial Fists, Black Templar
>good
Pick one
>>46482323
>>46482443
Tbf helsreach is pretty awesome
Unless I screwed my math up, an unupgraded Canoptek Harvest is only 230 points?
So, Space Marines get free transports, WarConvo gets free wargear, Space Wolves get free vehicle upgrades, Eldar get free wins.
What if the Black Legion detachment gave free Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, and Terminator Weapons to all models with Champion of Chaos? Would the result be balanced?
Sure, the Black Legion Warband requires a ton of shitty, overpriced units, but each one of those units gets a free Powerfist, Plasma Pistol, Combi-Melta for when/if it manages to get close. It would go a long way towards giving you shots at the Boon Table, the only real unique thing about the codex.
If we assume that the detachments are supposed to help you emulate your faction, it turns every Character into the army into a mini-Abaddon; he's an ancient veteran who has survived and grown to martial power by collecting varous tools and artefacts.
>>46482705
YOU'LL TAKE YOUR FREE VETERANS OF THE LONG WAR AND YOU'LL LIKE IT.
Tell me /tg/, do you think this would work if I was a local TO and wanted to create a balanced 40k event?
>balance
I know
So it would be 1000 points. All armies must take a single CAD. Restrictions:
>no LOW's
>no Allies
>Except for Troops Choices, there may be no duplicate units from your codex (not limited to carbon copies, no two of the same unit from the same entry)
>Because it's a single CAD, no Formations or Detachments is implied
Would this work? Would it do anything to make for a more fun game? Would it bone or favor anything? The idea is that you cannot spam anything.
>would you go?
>>46482295
Normal deep strike rules, banners of blood or Icons let them precision strike if within 6 of them. Any Princes or BTs summoned through mortal champions also follow these rules
Every unit in KDK has Blood for the blood god and can generate Tithe points, they are awarded for killing or dying in a challenge, or losing a friendly KDK unit, or killing an enemy unit. You can hold up to 8 points, but upon spending them all are lost
That said he cheated majorly if he summoned over 6 units of anything in an average 6 turn game. You spend Tithe points at the start of your turn, the summoning based rewards start at 5 points, even with Slaughtercult granting a second pick of 1-4 rewards.
You can still purchase basic Troop bloodletters with can arrive via deep-strike, you probably witnessed him bringing those in
>>46482516
Yep. Comes with a Spyder, 3 Scarab bases and 3 Wraiths.
HQ: Sorcerer + +2 mastery, terminator, MoT, Sigil, Spell familiar, Burning brand of Skalathrax = 220 (Attached to Termies)
HQ: Daemon Prince + DoT + Wings + Armour + Black Mace = 265
Troops: 9+1 CSM/Champ + MoT, Powerfist, 2 Flamers = 195
Troops: 16+1 Rubrics/Sorc = 426
Elite: 4+1 Termies/champ, 5x Dual Lightning Claws, MoT = 232
Fast Attack: 2+1 Bikers/Champ, 2x Meltagun, Combi-Melta = 100
Heavy Support: 2x Obliterators + MoT = 156
Heavy Support: 2x Obliterators + MoT = 156
Heavy Support: Land Raider + Dirge Caster = 235
Dedicated Transport (CSM): Rhino + Dirge Caster = 40
Formation: Cyclopia Cabal: 5x Sorcerers + 1 Mastery, Sigil, MoT, Spell familiar = 700 (attached to Rubrics)
Formation: Daemon Engine Pack: Warpsmith + MoT = 125, 2x Forgefiends (H.AC) = 350 = 475 together
Total: 3200
And I was being a bit conservative with my Sorcs.. Ouch!
>>46482852
OK, thanks for the help! And he's probably not intentionally cheating, he's a new player and I've never encountered Daemonkin summoning so I was unsure.
>>46482852
Where does it say this about the deep strike in the Daemonkin rulebook? It just says "place the units on the table".
>>46482846
Problem is certain Codexes need to spam certain units to compete better.
Like at 1000 points a single Riptide is goodsauce while Space Wolves only really need the one unit of Thundercav.
Versus say Orks being only down to one unit of Tankbustas or Mek Gunz.
It's a nice idea anon and I appreciate the effort but 40k is so broke efforts like these feel almost futile.
>>46482443
>>46482503
Haha, I know GW shits on the Fists at every opportunity. Hence why I was hoping for some assistance in finding any half-decent fluff.
>>46482766
>Editors Note: Veterans of the Long War is not actually free. Pay full points for it chaosfag :DDDDD
>>46482846
>>46482969
That being said go ahead and try to get it off the ground.
It sounds fun and if none of your participants are dickwolves it should work out fine.
>>46482927
Don't have the book here. it's the page with all the Tithe rewards listed vertically near the relics.
Every summoning unit has an asterisk, and a block of text at the bottom of the page explaining that they arrive normally and scatter like anything else. Icons help but they are difficult to use, but such is life when you are getting free units
>>46482846
This will make the divide between Eldar and everyone else more pronounced, but will reduce the average distance from balance. The weak codexes will still largely be weak for the all the current reasons, and the strong codexes will still be strong for the same reasons.
>>46482846
Formations would fine if they were all like Space Marines. Obsec and one round of twinlinked tacticals? Minimum of 3 troops, 1 fast attack and Devastators. Want a Demi-Company in a low point game? Apart from the flyer formation the rest of heavily taxing and involved flavour units like 2 assault centurions and an Ironclad. Unfortunately the same can't be said for tau, elder and necrons.
>>46482846
I would add on a caveat that Eldar can't take multiple jetbike troop units.
Other than that though, its probably as close to balanced as you'll get.
>>46482862
Ahh fuck i forgot to add the mandatory VotLW to the two formations. That's 3230.
Though to be fair I can remove the Sorc Warlord's mastery and spell familiar so he's a dedicated Burning Brander.
wait, do we have leaks from the supplements?
if so pls gibe
>>46482977
GW shits on the Fists because they can take it
>>46483197
>>46482846
We are currently doing 1000pts CAD only/No allies few day tournament.
It's ok for balance, it brings a lot of the worse books up to an okish standard.
You can still bring some filth lists tho. Just depends on your players at the end of the day.
You're never gonna have balance lists if it is deemed a WAAC tournament.
We currently have a few people who rolled random lists and its worked out ok.
Another point is I fee;1000pts didnt feel as satisfying to play, the game can usually end within an hour so it iffy.
>>46481165
Does a pdf exist of the Rules for 7e 40k that's just the rules?
I'd prefer not to scroll through 861 pages of fluff, pictures, AND rules
>>46482705
Still garbage since Chaos has no good ways to even get into melee, and is worse at it than Vanilla marines anyways.
>>46483223
Reckon these are all in the book or will there be more + a Decurion?
Is slapping azrael in a land raider fair? If I'm reading the rules right i can take it as a dedicated transport for my deathwing but not actually have to put them in there. I mean azrael is pretty expensive but a land raider with 4+ invuln is pretty good.
>>46482015
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA
>>46483223
>Let Slip the Hounds
>Literally just Waaagh!
So why do Orks exist anymore?
So I was flipping through the Space Wolves Codex and can someone explain to me why they have so many differently named units?
From Tacticals to Bikers all they're infantry units are called something else.
Also anyone else find it weird that while other Spess Mehreen Codexes have one or two fancy units to differentiate them but Wolves have one for basically every unit type?
>Riders like Ravenwing
Thunderwolf Cav
>CC unit like Death Company
Wulfen
>Fancy flyer like Nephilim
Stormwolves
>Elite Infantry unit like Sternguard
Grey Hunters
>Fancy Terminators like Deathwing
Grey Hunter Terminators
>Fancy Dreadnoughts like Bangles
Wolves got 2 Dread characters and Stormshields for Ven Dreads
Only thing they didn't really have was vehicles but then they got Iron Wolves so I don't even know.
>>46483275
None of the formations have a Core v Auxiliary v Command distinction. Probably no decurion in either book.
Crimson Slaughter formations are most likely just Kranon's Helguard and the other shitty ones CSM already had for Crimson Slaughter.
>>46483283
So that there's someone for the good guy factions to beat up.When's the last time Orks won a major war lorewise anyhow.
>>46483223
>That Daemon pack
Fucking called it. didn't expect the character snipe thing but i knew they would let us use the Smith's BS/WS and shit
Is the assault Terminator kit any good? Also why aren't chainswords more prolific?
>>46483223
Nice, these all seem pretty good!
>>46483429
>pretty good
what the fuck are you smoking? They're all trash aside from the Cabal.
>>46482015
Does anyone have the updated release of that? Been looking everywhere but can't find it.
>>46482015
I thought Gazy's eternal WAAGGHHH was deceny
>>46483371
The war for Octarius.
>>46483317
>>Elite Infantry unit like Sternguard
>Grey Hunters
>Fancy Terminators like Deathwing
Grey Hunter Terminators
What?
Dark Angels
>Land speeders
>terminators
>flyer
Space marines
>Flyers
>Centurions
>AAir vechiles
>Ironclad
Blood angels
>D.company
>Sang guard
> dreads
They all have different options from each other
>>46483371
Ghazghkull ended Octarius when he teleported to the surface with his Bully Boys, got swallowed by a Mawloc, and then burst out of the Mawlocs stomach having suffered no wounds and lead the Orks to victory....then he fucked off.
>>46483223
Straight trash. When the best thing is a 30" WC 3 puppet master, with a formation of 3-5 CSM Sorcerers - motherfucking kek.
We all knew they wouldnt get anything decent, but goddamn. Re-releasing two arguably useless supplements with garbage tier formations? Unless the relics are an extra 500-1000 points of free units, CSM got fucked. At least they didnt get nerfed like Orks? Not that any of it really matters though, both armies are so far down that it's just pissing into the ocean at this point.
GW seems intent on thinning out their customer/playerbase even further. They'd have to completely overhaul every codex within a 12 month period to stop the bleeding at this point. That annual report later this year is going to open a lot of eyes.
>>46483461
It is, the issue is getting to that eternal Waaaagh! you've got to take 1300 points of useless fucking units in a completely uncustomisable way.
>>46483442
Better than nothing, I like the Warpsmith one at least.
>>46482846
How about:
>no LoW's
>ONE formation OR allied detachment allowed
>>46483525
A turd is better than nothing, doesn't mean it's Not a turd.
The Warpsmith one is minimum like 330 points, and taking it with Maulerfiends is fucking worthless. Forgefiends at least get a benefit from it, but also make it between 400 and 500 points, for a still super-squishy walker that doesn't put out much Dakka for its 200 points.
>>46483328
The core, auxiliary and command symbols aren't in the Space Marine codex either except in the Gladius section
>>46483598
Know what you sound like?
>>46483525
No, not better than nothing. Look at the Space Marine update that's being released alongside this trash. They get a significant update that adds new psychic powers and formations that are head and shoulders above this insult.
GW is playing games mate. They're abusing you, trying to force your hand.Buy a new army since yours sucks so overwhelmingly bad.
Stop supporting their bullshit, it's the only way to force their hand. 40k is not sustainable using this sales strategy. Force them to unfuck the game, or face the music. Every cent you give them is a vote for this horrible, worst ever, iteration of the game.
>>46483486
Oh yeah I guess you're right.
There are a lot more special fancy units between them than I remembered.
I'm still kind of questioning why everything is named differently.
Is it a lore reason like Russ thumbing his nose at the Codex Astartes or what?
>>46483634
There's also a guy on Dakka Dakka claiming he already updated his iPad version of the supplement, and it doesn't have a decurion either.
>>46483642
>8 semi-autocannon shots is worth 200 points, when havocs do the same thing for 100 points less.
>>46483642
Uh no. A 200 point Forgefiend is a legitimate complaint. A Tau player whining he cant kill anything in the game in one turn is vastly different.
It says in the IG codex that Catachans like to customize their equipment and vehicles. What are some things they would right on the side of Russes and Chimeras?
>>46483680
Plus Havocs have longer range and don't die from one anti-tank shot.
>>46483598
>He would rather have nothing than something
>Implying Warpsmiths are bad
>Implying Maulerfiends aren't fucking amazing
>Implying BS4 Forgefiends doesn't make up for their initial pts.
Yes everything should be Eldar-tier, amirite? fuck off you tired drone
>>46483680
>give Chaos both undivided and khorne demi-companies
>don't even bother adding a decurion to make them good
>>46483714
Uh, idk. Probably 'Right On' or something like that.
>>46483673
it's because space wolves used have their own identity instead of being "just another chapter".
>>46483721
You're a fucking retard, and your idiotic bullet points dont even make sense.
>>46483721
Well Maulerfiends are pretty nice, but they are pretty fragile. Warpsmiths aren't too great, since they don't do anything too well and Forgefiends wouldn't be worth it even at BS5 default when that formation only brings one of the Forgefiends up to BS5.
>>46483695
>>46483680
>>46483598
The formation makes Forgefiends a decent bit better. Thanks to the special rules, it pretty much guarantees that your marked target will get swiss cheese'D with extreme prejudice.
The chosen Forgefiend shits out 8 S8 shots at 2+ to hit, re-rolling 1s. Then useless his target is at least T7 (unlikely), he also wounds on a 2+ with 1s re-rolled. You're basically guaranteed you'll force 8 saves. If they're T4 or below, they get instagibbed when they fail one.
Repeat for the other Forgefiend, only this one hits on 4+ (but still re-rolls 1s). I wonder if such a volley would fuck up Calgar or Smashfucker. Can people do the math?
>>46483715
Do Havocs have more than 1 wound?
>>46483778
If I don't remember wrong, that preferred enemy only applies to one particular enemy character, so no preferred enemy for you most of the time.
>>46483816
No, but they have more than 1 model.
>>46483843
And Forgefiends have more than 1 HP.
>>46483829
Yeah that's what I'm saying. The two rules combined are great to positively make sure the enemy's special snowflake has a really bad day. The BS5 buff for general use is pretty handy. A lot of people field problem characters that might be difficult to budge.
>>46483721
Oh dear, not knowing that a warpsmith is BS5 shows the rest of your "understanding"
maulerfiends are not that bad, yes
a forgefiend is minimum 175 pts. Has 12/12/10 3HP and a 5++ save because demon.
Which for that points is very very vulnerable
It also has It will not die, fleet and a rule that allows him to reroll failed wound/penetration hits, once.
overall that thing is simply very vulnerable.
And for that formation you have to shell out 110 for a warpsmith. He is not worth that much
>>46483721
>WS5 mattering to maulerfiends
>Warpsmiths being able to keep up with Maulerfiends to give them WS5
>Giving forgefiends something they should have had to begin with while loyalists get EVEN MORE STUFF is ok
>Warpsmiths aren't a tax unit
>>46483778
>Reliably getting the PE buff for your forgefiends
>Spending 500 points on this
>Expecting your enemy's special snowflake to not hide in ablative wounds
>>46483816
No, but they have more than 1 model. You can get 8 models at the price of one Forgefiend.
>>46483853
Sure, but there are too many weapons that reliably cause explodes results. Also, good luck getting that thing into proper cover.
>>46483882
I'm fielding my Forgefiends anyway, might as well. that's my general reasoning to defending this formation.
>>46483865
115 actually, since you have to pay for VOTLW because lolblacklegion
this whole thread makes me glad I moved on from csm.
>>46483853
Are really trying to argue in favor of a Forgefiends durability? Because its AV 12, 12, 10 with 3 hull points. And seeing how it has 2 or 3 weapons, the vehicle damage table is devastating to it.
A 175-200 point AV 12 walker that is most likely rendered useless on its first pen.
>>46483714
Go watch some 80s action flicks and work from there.
>Git sum!
>Showtime!
>Not a Knife
>This Machine kills Cultists
>Goddamn Sexual Tyrannosaurus
>Executioner called 'Mr. Meltdown'
And etc.
>>46483923
That's a shit reason to defend it, though. If you're already running two forgefiends and a Warpsmith because you like the models or w/e well, why not run the formation?
That doesn't make it not dogshit.
>>46483967
Forgefiends are most definitely dogshit. The spiteful, self-loathing shitposters that hang out here every day spewing vitriol and memes would have you believe otherwise. But numbers dont lie.
>>46483967
I know man but I really struggle to say if its dogshit or not. I think that might be too harsh wording.
See, we need to be real careful here. Thanks to the huge gaping maw of balance issues the game has, we can't exaggerate with these things. Just because Tau, Eldar, SM and shit are god-like doesn't mean the solution is to make EVERYTHING go full retard. Sure, these formations still need something more but the rules themselves aren't bad. What it needs is the units themselves going down in points.
Perhaps with a main codex update, these formations would be nicer. Hell, I'm dying to try out the Conclave with my Thousand Sons, but a you see in my list post, they cost 700 at a conservative loadout.
>>46483956
>>46483714
>Goddamn Sexual Tyrannosaurus
if you dont paint that on your punisher, i will be extremely dissapointed in you
>>46484025
The formations aren't bad if you look at them alone, but you cannot do that, since not everyone will be fielding Chaos Space Marines. That's the issue here, you cannot really stand toe-to-toe against armies that have better stuff cheaper.
Anyone realised the chaos spell doesn't have a type?
>>46483882
I think two of the formation might work, simply because two maulerfiends (to run forward while the BS5 forgefiends hold the fort) are worthwhile while one maulerfiend is generally shit. Quite a lot of points though.
But the preferred enemy is indeed pretty useless, the best use I can think of for it is going after a knight seneschal, but they have a higher initiative than maulerfiends anyway.
>>46484060
Good, now you don't have any arguments about "DO I NEED TO SHOOT IT"
>>46483882
Warpsmith: WS 4 BS 5
>>46483918
True on explode results, but it has a 5++ anyway, so some cover is not that neccesary
for comparison
havocs 4 autocannon 115pts BS4 but T4, Ld9 with champ
forgefiend 2hadesautocannons 175 BS3 /BS5 with warpsmith canMoveAndShoot
AC Hades
STR7 STR8
AP4 AP4
48inch 36inch
-- pinning
If you want autocanno dakka, there is another option.
IA13 Chaos rapier+ hades AC
65 pts up to 3 per slot
BS4 because 2 CSM crew
One AC per rapier
unit is T7 against shooting because artillery
Rapier T7 W2 3+
>>46483949
>A 175-200 point AV 12 walker that is most likely rendered useless on its first pen.
Not really
it does have 5++ and demonic possession, so it ignores shaken and stunned on 2+
Still rather fragile for that point cost
So with all this talk of nerfing factions and tweaks and whatnot, I was wondering where the Imperial guard stands in the Hierarchy of power. I'm new to this and just started building an army.
>>46484090
Would you really bet that 175 points on a 5++ save? I sure as hell wouldn't, plus at 175 points Havocs get ablative wounds. When it comes to Rapier, you may be right, but not everyone is fielding Forge stuff, and the people who are won't be fielding Forgefiends.
Guys lets not forget that at the end of the day, it depends on your meta. If you play in a competitive environment where every chucklefuck has 2 riptides, of course you're going to have these formations blow chunks. but in a more casual friendly meta, the power gap isn't as large as everybody thinks.
>>46484121
5++ is worthless when cover saves are as fucking plentiful as they are. Not to mention you're just as likely to be immobilized or weapon destroyed as you are shaken/stunned.
>>46484153
Middle-tier, although you can get bitched at if you bring too many wyverns. It's not so much that they're powerful for their points, (though they are,) it's that it takes so fucking long to resolve all the blasts.
>>46484176
Of course, to add, that still doesn't excuse shitty practices and not fixing the main fucking codex for 4-5 years.
>click on all the Recreational Vehicles (RVs)
Fuck off Mr White!
>>46483673
Except for the idea of successor chapters the SW basically consider the Codex Astartes scrap paper, so potentially every single Wolf Lord may have his own personal army organization (in fact, if I remember correctly, the Firehowlers even follow a different rank progression compared to the other companies and have even different names for the units).
Obviously for the most part they will follow the general fenrisian tactics, but a basic characteristic of the SW lorewise is their great individualism (to the point that in the 5th edition codex they suggested to don't make to different IC with the same equipment)
>>46484176
The formations are garbage regardless of how competitive your meta is, all that changes is how much blood you might be able to squeeze from these proverbial stones.
That doesn't change the fact that GW is trying to tell you that "FREE TRANSPORTS" and "REROLLS ON EVERYTHING ALL GAME" is the same as "occasional preferred enemy" and "the chaos boon table might be something you keep track of rather than completely ignoring, now".
>>46484176
Ehh, its not that cheery anon. The good codexes have to go out of their way to make weak lists in order to have a decent game with the garbage tier books. The power gaps are game breakingly huge right now.
>>46484157
I wouwld rather compare
2 +forgefiends + warpsmith = 465pts
4 * (5havoc+4AC) = 470
so you get roughly twice the dakka
>>46484185
Ok. I'll be sure to only buy one for small games. I only have a "start collecting" kit but it was on my buy list
Other than the formation we have seen there's one with Abaddon and 5 terminators. The Terminators gain +1 WS/BS and reroll LOS rolls
Also you will be able to take both BL and CSM relics
Source - L'Astropate
>>46483858
No, that's not what you're saying. The majority of the time the unit targetted isn't the Character, it's the unit containing the Character plus one or more other models. That means no IC. The number of routinely-single model characters is extremely low.
Which chaos gods would the remaining chapters follow if they turned bad?
>>46484060
Yes. I checked to make sure it wasn't a Witchfire.
I remember end of January I was in England visiting a friend. I saw the GW store in Reading and we went in to see the display models. Mostly Age of Smegmar but eh, really nicely painted. Anyway, the guy who works there came over to talk, he tried to explain the game, asked what I play and all that and wasn't pushy, when I showed I'm only there to look around.
I had told him I play a bit of casual-tier tau and necrons, because I had to shelf my CSM due to the massive powercreep, and as soon as I said that he furrowed his brows and dipped his head in a nod, he looked genuinely hurt. You can tell he has some personal investment/pain from that shit and even as an employee he's powerless.
>>46484380
Space Wolves definitely Khorne. Salamanders and Fists would be Undivided due to stubbornness and no real focus. Dark Angels definitely Tzeentch. Blood Angels can go Slaanesh or Khorne equally. I'm stumped for the rest. Can't think of a single one that might go to Nurgle.
>>46484407
Is the power even that useful, if you're playing against armies that don't have big shooty threats like Wraithknights or Stormsurges?
>>46484343
Although to get those 4 havoc squads you need two CADs, so there's a tax there (320 points for 2 naked sorcerers and 4 basic cultist squads) as well, while the daemon engines have the tax of a single warpsmith (110 points).
As I said before, one of the best things about that formation is it doesn't cut into your vindicator/obliterater slots. I see BS5 on a forgefiend as a bonus.
>>46484494
>Can't think of a single one that might go to Nurgle.
Ultramarines for sure. Their primarch has been half-dead for the last 10'000 years
>>46484500
It's not bad honestly. Even if he doesn't have huge threats to hijacks, you can still take control of some unit with one-use weaponry for example. Waste a squad's combi-weapons on the rear-end of a nearby vehicle for a 2-for-1 deal.
>>46484530
yeah, their brains are already rotten too
>>46484564
Maybe. I just look at the lists my usual playgroup bring and nothing really springs to mind as something worth stealing. MAYBE some grav bikes?
Rumours on points deductions or are GW no longer doing that along with Codices?
>>46484494
Nurgle :Imperial Fists are stubborn, which is kinda nurglish go on. Ignore the pain, go on, continue....
Tzeentch: could be raven guard, expect the unexpected.
Dark angels of course. My secrets, MINE No looky here, no looky there
Slaanesh: BloodAngels definitly . We are pretty, I get BlackRageBecauseSomeOrkAlteredMyPrettyFaceTycho
So do Iron Hands. MustGetBetterMustGetBetter
Khorne: Space Wulfes Hate The Mage Kill The Mage Use Missle Launcher as club unless Too old for this shit
Salamander Build Weapons.Build More Weapons MORE WEAPONS!!!!!
Undivided: Ultramarines. Your gods are good. Almost as good as Guiliman.
White Scars: Honestly I don't know much of the white scars
>>46483259
Bump for this please
>>46484635
Literally anything, man. See what you opponent fields and grab the most troll-worthy or single-use weapon you can find and unleash it. I could control my friend's GK Dreadknight and wreck his Psyfleman Dread or poke a few holes in his Knight Errant.
Pretty sure you can find something worthy of possessing in any list. Besides, it's a "free" nuisance for the enemy. It's a psychological hit. You don't know whose going to get possessed! Do you trust your own men anymore? Should your MC be that close to your own troops..?
>>46484687
Given everybody seems to take the Librarius Conclave with White Scars chapter tactics, it's pretty clear they'd be Tzeentch.
>>46484737
I think the biggest problem is anything with a good enough gun to possess is also going to kill you next turn.
I just thought of something though. Can you use this to steal Markerlights?
Help me /tg/, I'm an idiot. Is this correct?
>Leman Russ has Camo Netting - 6+ Cover
>Leman Russ pop smoke - gets Shrouded for 5+ Cover
>Leman Russ is over 25% obscured by my own units - 5+ Cover
Do all of these stack for 2+ Cover that turn? Or is the only thing that stacks Stealth/Shrouded?
>>46484798
Smoke and being obscured don't stack. Camo netting should give Stealth if i recall correctly and that does stack with cover/units but doesn't stack with other sources of Stealth such as Night fighting
>>46484777
But this has little to do with WS fluff and rather with certain bonus rules, right?
>>46484737
>Possessing a 10-man squad of Crisis Suits
Muh dick. Might actually be worth the huge beyond-retarded pointsink to pull this off.
Do we have any leaks on the Crimson Slaughter?
them not getting anything formations originally was lame.
Hopefully the beast-possesed can just be flat out BEASTS now
>>46484798
>Leman Russ pop smoke - gets Shrouded for 5+ Cover
Popping smoke doesnt give you shrouded, it just gives you a 5+ cover.
Stealth stacks nothing else(unless shrouded)
>>46484798
Camo-netting stacks with another cover save. You use the best cover save available - In this case, obscured OR smoke, so at best it becomes 4+.
>>46484826
Correct, I was just being facetious.
>>46484790
Yes but probably worthless unless you are also tau as they do not affect something else.
But your post gave me an idea. Rather than damage, what about stealing say a group of pathfinders whose pulse carbines have PINNING.
>>46484790
markerlights arent a shooting attacks, its "instead of"
>>46484798
>Drive me closer, I want to give them a high five
>>46484874
They literally have a gun profile though.
>>46484798
only stealth and shrouded stack i was told
>>46484687
Think Blood Angels could go Slaanesh or Khorne. We are all about rage, blood, and fighting; but we also have fabulous flowing hair. Hard to say.
>>46484870
True. Everyone forgets about pinning, but it could be nice against some Infantry to charge them afterwards.
Personally I'd be more interested in blowing up a riptide with a crisis team or Vis-versa
>>46484944
With a crisis, what about Nova
can you overcharge thatt
>>46484911
According to the codex, they are ranged weapons.
I'd allow it in a game.
>>46484790
Networked markerlight could be used. Which would enable you to coerce a third unit to fire one of more Seeker Missiles. With enough Castings you could even Markerlight a target with the first and use the token with a second Shroud of Deceit.
Tau, Tyranids, and Wraithknights are the only factions really scared by this power.
>>46484995
Nah, that's done in the movement phase. Not sure what happens if the tau player overcharged the gun in their last turn though.
>>46481974
Not all. Probably only the characters can roll on them as all the units have predetermined powers.
I agree that they should have fixed the existing big book powers.
>>46485003
You can empty the seeker missile depot without markerligts. they are fired at unit bs. But whats gone, is gone.
Only broadsides IIRC as other sources are vehicles
>>46484995
I don't think you could nova-charge anything, though you could certainly overcharge any Ion weapons to blow up enemies while having them take extra wounds from gets hot.
>>46485017
Probably nothing as the charge is spent.
>>46485002
>>46484911
>Immediately before a unit from Codex: Tau Empire shoots at a target that has one or more markerlight counters, it can declare it is using one or more of tl1e markerlight abilities listed below. Each ability costs a number of markerlight counters -remove this number of markerlight counters from the target immediately when the ability is declared. A unit can combine any number of markerlight abilities providing that there are enough counters.
Only tau can use markerlights so its irrelevant
So you reckon this new mind-control power is a good counter to big units and gargantuans? I wouldn't go so far as to say they are hard counters but possibly the closest thing?
>>46485003
I dunno, there's still a lot of threat to be had outside that. Nobody wants their marines blowing each other up with their own plasma.
>>46485053
What if you play CSM+Tau?
>>46485059
>"let me use your wraithknight to shoot your other wraightknight"
Yes
>>46483513
The costs probably changed
I'm being optimistic again
>>46485059
The casting range is good, but there's a good chance you'll perils for the amount of dice you'll be throwing at it.
>>46485053
Networked markerlights could still work, so if you get close enough to a Sky Ray you could hijack it and fire some of those single-use missiles off.
Alternatively, multiples of the formation mean you can steal their marker squad and a gun to use with it.
>>46485081
Then you're a powergaming fluffraping faggot and you've won anyway
>>46485113
Skyray is a vehicle. Power does not work on vehicles.
Otherwise you could just fire seeker missles. They do not need markerlights.
>>46485113
>thinking people use a Skyray
>>46485113
non-vehicles only breh. But you can hijack suits no problem.
>>46485111
Nice trips! But you also have a spell familiar. What bothers me the most is how you need to commit the number of dice you'll be using and if you fail you can't use more dice. why not? It drains your pool and increases your perils risks exponentially, so there's plenty of downside. If you want to get the power off and accept those risks though, you can do that.
>>46485141
>>46485153
My bad. Not sure if any non-vehicle tau have networked marker lights.
Either way, there should still be some good value in turning all their special weapons against each other.
>>46485029
What? Seeker Missiles called via Markerlight are fired at BS5.
I'll say one thing, no fucker's going to bring a vindicare against CSM now.
>>46485261
The bomber and the Skyray.
That's it
>>46485290
>no fucker's going to bring a vindicare against anyone
ftfy
CAN uo charge the turn your transport is destroyed?
If yes, can you posses a unit and destroy your own transports in the psychic phase and charge in the assault?
>>46485273
with markerlights yes.
if you want to fire them without, you can but not at BS. and line of sight only.
>>46485353
>This is your brain
>Now this is your brain on chaos
>>46485346
Idk, The 14 assassin army someone posted a while back looked pretty fun to play.
>>46485353
only if it is open topped or an assault vehicle
>>46485290
Vindicare just has to stay out of range which is super easy.
I mean it's not like Chaos is going to be deepstriking next to him.
>>46485388
You could give the sorcerers Jump packs...
>>46484824
If camo netting acts like cameoline cloaks it's a +1 to cover, even if they're on open ground.
>>46482846
That's a cool middlefinger to the inquisition players.
>>46484494
I don't think dark angels would ever go full chaos, even the ones that went to chaos did so under misunderstandings and jealousy uncommon to the rest of the legion. The dark angels would join in with the cabal and tag team ruse the imperium with the alpha legion.
but yeah if it had to be a chaos god, tzeentch is the answer. As with the alpha legion.
>>46485375
Culexus is good, Callidus is alright.
Vindicare and Eversor are straight garbage.
On their lonesome, The latter 2 are free kill points.
>>46485376
So using Shroud of Deceit to blow up my own Dreadclaw Drop Pod to enable a Turn 1 Assault would be a legal play?
>>46485459
Vindicare is not garbage. Hes just really MEH
>>46485454
I don't know if you can really consider the cheap inquisitor with a bolter and servo skulls that everyone uses as actual inquisition players.
>>46485290
Why? He can just use super pen round on it from the back of the board, bs8 s10 ap2 every single turn.
>>46482705
Honestly, making Black Legion Termies and Chosen WS5/BS5 and Stubborn for free would be great. I'd be pretty happy with that, honestly.
>>46485460
You can do a turn one assault with the dreadclaw anyways
>>46485575
>>46485460
No, you can't. Dreadclaw is an assault vehicle, sure, but you still deepstrike with it. Can't assault turn one after deepstriking.
![Librarian-tiggy[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/VRaYAS1.png "Librarian-tiggy[1].png")
"I wanted to build a casual list with 1st Company Task Force and Librarius Conclave"- 1850 Pts
>1st Company Task Force
>5x Sternguard (200)
Melta Bombs (Sgt)
2 Heavy Flamers
3 Combi-Flamers
Drop Pod
>5x Sternguard (200)
Melta Bombs (Sgt)
5 Combi-Meltas
Drop Pod
>5x Sternguard (210)
Melta Bombs (Sgt)
2 Plasma Guns
3 Combi-Plasma
Rhino
>5x Assault Terminators (455)
3 x TH/SS
Land Raider Redeemer
Extra Armour
>Librarius Conclave
>Librarian (115)
ML2
Terminator Armour
Force Stave
>Librarian (100)
ML2
Combi-Plasma
Force Sword
>Librarian (90)
ML2
Force Stave
>Storm Wing
>Stormraven (230)
Typhoon ML
TL Lascannon
Extra Armour
>Stormtalon (125)
TL Lascannon
>Stormtalon (125)
TL Lascannon
Thoughts? Obvious weaknesses? Obvious better choices?
>>46485454
You're right, I'm sure he'd tell anybody with nothing but 1000 points in Inquisitorial Warbands to fuck off. Not that anyone actually has nothing but thousands of points of Inquisitorial Warbands.
>>46485388
>I mean it's not like Chaos is going to be deepstriking next to him.
Jump Pack Sorcerers are a mean son of a bitch when used correctly.
>>46484505
>Great i get to take a shitty overcosted unit, without it costing a force org slot!
>>46484362
If you have preferred enemy (characters) or similar you gain the bonus if you shoot at unit that contain them.
>>46485525
>>46485633
Believe it or not, but some people do actually play with substantial inquisitorial detachments. Sisters need them and their toys to survive certain enemy lists.
>>46485629
Needs a Third Pod. Two Pods Turn 1 is loads better than one pod and lone Rhino.
>>46485648
>when used correctly
did you mean
>when you get lucky
So are any of yall gonna pay $30 for a plastic sprue?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Space-Marine-2016?_requestid=11419026
>>46485729
Source? The rules are very unclear on this. They get to reroll to hits and wounds against the Preferred Enemy, which is defined as a "specific type of foe" denoted by the (X) variable. Is a unit containing an Independent Character the same type of foe specified as (Character)?
>>46483223
Why doesn't Shroud of Deceit mention what sort of power is it?
>>46485765
And they don't have 1000 points in either? I'm sure he'd tell that person to fuck off too. This is pointless whining for the sake of whining.
>>46485836
Undecided. Not a huge fan of the mini, but exclusivity haunts me.
>>46485863
How exactly do you plan on rerolling to hit and wound against a character in a unit otherwise?
>>46485889
Because who needs proofreading or editors when you make the FINEST MINIATURES IN THE WORLD.
>>46485903
When it's the only target. A character without a unit. Whether it would apply to a unit composed entirely of Characters is anyone's guess.
>>46483317
>Also anyone else find it weird that while other Spess Mehreen Codexes have one or two fancy units to differentiate them but Wolves have one for basically every unit type?
Do I find it weird that an ACTUAL non-Codex chapter has many different units compared to pseudo non-adherent snowflakes like Blood angels?
No
Blood Angels could be put into the primary codex just as easily as Templars. Then they'd finally have centurions so they could shut the fuck up about that
>>46485984
Think of it this way. You have preferred enemy Space Marines. You fire at a Marine squad with a Canoness attached to it. Do you not re-roll to hit because a model in that unit doesn't fill the criteria, or do you still re-roll because there's a marine model?
>>46485889
>>46485922
Something smells here and it isn't the Tau cheese...
>>46485459
The best thing I learned is yes, eversor die like bitches.
I also learned enough fleshbane attacks kill GC.
>>46485922
If they dont like our new CSM formations, then THEY'RE NOT OUR CUSTOMERS.
>>46486112
Its closest model first in 7th edition so whats the issue?
>>46486126
You're right. This is all bullshit. Games Workshop would never make an omission like that. After all, it's not like the general lack of clarity regarding the psychic phase hasn't been a complaint since day one.
Man, if this were fake it would reflect the perfect understanding of how little we expect from our CSM update.
>>46486175
Because you allocate wounds to the closest model. How do you know how many wounds there are without rolling to hit and wound first?
>>46485519
150 points for a single T4, 4+ model with a single shot a turn. He's baaaad, though I wish he wasn't.
They could have actually fucking done a Nurgle related formation. Maybe it's fine, given people's reaction to this, maybe I'm better off without.
>>46486175
No, you roll to hit a unit.
>>46486112
By the strictest interpretation of the letter of the Preferred Enemy (x) rule, you would not reroll to hit since it's a Space Marine unit with an attached IC.
>>46485519
>150pts
For the same cost, I could get a Dominion squad, give them 4 Meltas and a Combi-melta, drop pod them on an MC turn 1 and nuke it with ignores cover S8 AP1.
>>46486215
he has stealth so stick him in a ruin and hes on 3+.
He not amazing. hes just meh
>>46486305
well yeah because space marines are overpowered mary sues
>>46486341
Not Space marines, Anon.
>>46486364
my bad
i just have traumas from my third game where all my armor got melta'd before it even got to my turn
>>46486333
But then, Tau and their on demand ignores cover.
>did you see me choose to markerlight that Assassin?
>Im a strategic, AND a tactical genius
>man I'm really good with this army
Tau player thought process.
>>46486305
It's a shame but the only really worthwhile assassin in the culexus.
>>46486427
>a model has a counter
>ITS SO BAD WHY DOES IT HAVE A COUNTER
logic
>>46486215
Who can gib vehicles and ignore effectively every save in the game, though not all at the same time.
>>46486512
No retard, on demand ignores cover is not a counter to 'a model'. It's a counter to a mechanic; a mechanic which several armies depend on entirely.
God damn you Tau faggots are fucking hall of fame stupid.
>>46486215
>>46486333
>>46486427
The vindicare is nothing amazing but I run one with my grey knights and he has never failed to win his points back. However, I'm deepstriking a bunch of terminators so my opponent has more important things to deal with than the assassin. I keep him as far away as possible. In my experience he's best used for taking out special weapons and characters without invuls so you can get away with using nothing but hellfire rounds. He's also popped some light vehicles in a clutch and for that I will be forever grateful. Sure they could deepstrike their own guys on him but then those are guys that aren't attacking my paladins.
>>46486500
The Callidus is good if play it Solid Snake from the start. My buddy put his directly behind a Leman Russ so it was out of Line of Sight. The Russ immobilized itself trying to open LoS to other units, allowing the assassin to charge an infantry unit and shred it.
Shit was priceless.
>>46486427
Im such a tactical genius i counter myself
>>46486512
>tau player talking about counters
>has counters to everything
>on every unit
>entire tau army reads like a 13 year old wrote a Mary sue army.
Your easy mode even comes with cruise control.
>>46486305
Where are you getting the droppods from, senpai?
>>46486576
>BEING THIS MAD ABOUT SMALL SOLDIERS
where is your life going, kid?
Where do I buy Canoptek Scarabs? I'm on GW's online store, and I don't see any outside of a package deal, such as the starter box.
>>46486585
I do like the callidus, I like outflanking mine so they come on when everything that can threaten them is already dead and can clean up safely.
>>46486647
Scarabs come on the warriors sprue, I believe.
>>46486626
>Lose an argument
>LOL WHY SO MAD KID? AT LEAST I HAVE A LYFE
