I hear a lot about how the Dark Age of Humanity had crazy technology, but was it better than peak Eldar and Necrona?
No.
>>46429829
/thread
>>46429805
No, but it is important to note that Mankind, the Eldar, and the Necrons all have rather different tech because of their varying relationships with the warp.
>>46429805
Definitely the realm of headcanon.
I would say no... but it wasn't too far behind. The things Dark Age humanity could achieve were mind blowing, feats of technology that to their more primitive descendants really does look like the work of magic or gods.
The fact that the Eldar and the Necrons have stuff a few steps beyond that is just part of why they're so scary.
>>46429805
At their peak, mankind was comparable to the Eldar Empire tech wise when it came to power. Mankind commanded hideously powerful ships that use black hole cannons, and possessed AI's that could hack into anything. Their ships were massive and could be built in swarms, and the armies were terrible to. Imperial Knights for example just maintained backwater worlds. Armies consisted of Titan spam and would be made largely up of Lords of War by the TT's standards. Areotech shit everywhere, blackhole guns on the ground, conversion beamers, all kinds of gravity fuckery. Mankind in the DAOT seems to really like manipulation of space-time.
>>46430871
Chrono/Stasis weapons, Black hole/Vortex weapons, Anti-warp weaponry, Anti-grav, conversion/neutron/volkite beams, XbawsHuge ships, shit that lasted for over 20k years, holy shit.
They are pretty comparable to pre-fall Eldar and Necrons, maybe slightly weaker due to lack of psykers. Pre-fall Eldar can respawn infinitely and can predict the future. This is the key factor when dealing with da Eldar.
>>46431134
Also the webway.
>>46430871
A lot of Humanity's DAoT technology looks tailor-made to beat back the Murderelves of their period.
>>46431180
THe only they couldnt counter is the webway I guess.
>>46431134
No, DAOT is definitely weaker than the Necrons- the Necrons at their height murdered everybody. As awesome as DAOT is, they don't have armor made out of solidified time.
>>46429805
Powerful that it gave the Eldar Empire at the height of its power pause.
>>46429805
>better than peak Eldar and Necrona
Close to Eldar in some respects, way behind Necron's at their peak. Necron's at their peak could switch off the life of entire planets like a lightswitch with minimal effort, restructure constellations with blasts from weapons, and frequently made use of shit like crystallized time for guns/armor.
>>46429829
>>46429854
This.
DAoT is a weird one, because in some sources it's post-singularity society where the fabric of reality was toyed with daily and in others it was just Imperial tech that wasn't shit. I guess it's just how much kool-aid you've drank.
>>46431355
>A lot of Humanity's DAoT technology looks tailor-made to beat back the Murderelves of their period.
This makes a lot of sense when you consider the Eldar Empire was roughly equivalent to Rome back in the day, and the DAoT humanity was (while fucking impressive) not quite as large or powerful, but needed to compensate for that in the event of a war.
necrons currently have functioning time travel technology and the ability to create pocket dimensions, so.
>>46431838
>Eldar is Rome
>DAoT humanity is Israel
>>46431869
More like DAOT humanity is England and the Eldar are the Holy Roman Empire.
>>46429829
>this
DAoT humanity can flatten almost any faction in 40k. Except maybe the full brunt of the Incoming Nid's. Also while humanity was extremely powerful during DAoT the Eldar and Necrons at their peak are ridiculously god-like. Hence "The War in Heaven."
>>46429805
I would imagine they were a step between the Eldar/Necrons and the Necrontyr/Whoever created Eldar and Orks.
>>46429829
This.
>>46431896
Eldar were China and DAoT Humans were Heian Japan I'd say.
>>46432561
Nah eldar were Rome and humanity Persia - not at the same level as elves but too much effort and distance from the centre to push them away
So they fight over trade routes and border areas like the levant whilst also trading with each other
>>46431858
DAoT humans had weaponized time travel too. In addition to this, there are references in the fluff to forbidden archeotech comparable to the necron tech being used by the Imperium. The problem is that they only (Mechanicus/Inquisition) only brought this stuff out in the most direst of circumstances. So dire that the records of what they were fighting have been deleted.
Think of it like this. The Imperium at the start of the Great Crusade was shadow of what humanity had been during the DAoT and the Imperium now is shadow of what it was during the Great Crusade. One of the core themes of 40k is decay; once we humans were as gods but look at us now! *points to techpriest flopping his dick against a computer for 24hrs before turning it on.
Fascinating subject, shame there is so little to go on.
They were definitely behind but they had unrestrained access to A I technology which would make them capable of technological feats not possible without it
>>46432743
I'll bump this thread then
>>46431869
>>46431896
>>46432561
>>46432595
These comparisons are honestly BS becuz it is inherently obvious that while the Eldar might 'dominate' the Galaxy in terms of tech. They did not own/colonised it. If they had done so, the whole Galaxy would be one fuckmassive eye of terror.
No, it's clear that the Eldar are struck in their tinydick space that we now call the Eye of Terror. While Mankind colonised the fucking Galaxy during DAoT and Great Crusade. The infinitely-respawning Eldar with the support of their warp gods may 'dominate' the Galaxy with their pansyass webway and prissy tech but Humanity ultimately ended up OWNING the Galaxy.
>>46430871
also the Baneblade was considered a "medium Tank"
>>46431544
Not even a little.
The DAoT Human Empire was fucked over indirectly through Eldar decadence.
Eldar partying > the combined might of mankind at its peak.
>>46432683
>DAoT humans had weaponized time travel too.
You mean the thing from Priests of Mars book? You are comparing a child that plays with a puddle of water to Moses who is parting the sea.
In the same damn novel series you had a Necron device that could restart the big bang through time manipulations. rebirthing planets, stars, and even the galaxy galaxy. It's called the Breath of Gods.
The DaoT humanity is not comparable to the Necrons.
>>46433987
Bullshit.
FW states that the main battletank of the DaoT times was the Predator.
Get your fluff straight and quit wanking.
Lore question related to the OP. Would humanity have better technology compared to the Eldar because the Eldar did not have technology but Warp power.
>>46433987
wasn't it a light tank?
What were eldar human relations like during this time? And whatcwas mans government?
>>46434276
>>46434297
>carnac telling people to quit wanking
Not wrong, but still.
>>46434362
That is how the meme goes, yes.
>>46434359
>Would humanity have better technology compared to the Eldar
No.
>Eldar did not have technology but Warp power.
Eldar have plenty technology.
>>46434359
No, Eldar technology is better than humanity.
Dark Eldar do not use warp in most of their tech, and not all craftworld waepons are warp based.
>>46434477
I do not wank. I try to present the fluff as it is written in the sources. If it appears like wankery than blame the authors,
If you want to useful, then do your part to combat actual wankery!
>>46434481
>>46434484
Can someone explain how the tech could work possibly? The lore always puts them as so magical and warp tuned that it can be hard to tell what is magic or what is technology.
>>46434523
>Can someone explain how the tech could work possibly?
They're not retards and are in fact ancient aliens who've been flying through space for millions of years.
>The lore always puts them as so magical and warp tuned that it can be hard to tell what is magic or what is technology.
"Magic" is not even separate from technology. You can make technology that has magical effects.
>>46430871
Jesus, what were they using all of that against anyways? I'm not too familiar with what went on in that era.
>>46434523
Dark Eldar technology is built on true science like the Necrons.
Craftworlds dabble in warp sorcery and science. Their weapons and machine are both built off actual technology and magic. The simplest example is their ninja star guns (Weeabo crap). They are highly advanced kill toys but they built to have to triggers. One is a psychic trigger (The one mostly used) and a mundane trigger in the case that the Eldar cannot use psychic powers for whatever reason.
>>46434586
>true science
>technology to siphon souls
>contain and torture psykers and daemons
>soul transfers
>warp beasts
>warp portals
>true science
>>46434658
>being this mon-keigh
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slaughtersong
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bloodtide
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Phase-iron
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Standard_Template_Construct
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Men_of_Iron
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kill-ships
Yeah, eldar tech is better than CURRENT humanity but not DAoT Humanity with Dark matter/OP weapons
>>46434584
Let's put it this way; there were a LOT of alien empires during the DAoT.
>>46434724
The codexes state that no power in the galaxy could touch the Pre-Fall Eldar. They were the masters of the galaxy.
Humanity was nothing to them.
>>46434724
Not to mention ships like Speranza and titans like the castigator class. Volkite/phosphorite weapons (Fire that cannot be extinguished), vortex/dark matter weapons, bright lances, man-portable void shields etc.
>>46434727
>>46434584
GW never really touched on the DAoT but much of tech appear to border/counter that of the Eldar
>>46434658
There are Necron technologies that can siphon warp energy (pylons).
Also one dynasty has a warscythe that can rip souls out of bodies.
Ignoring that, >>46434484 I said that most Dark Eldar tech do not use the warp.
>>46434727
So DAoT humanity was basically super-earth from helldivers?
>>46434762
The fact remains they are still confined in their smalldick space that we now called the Eye of Terror. While Mankind went on to colonise the whole damn Galaxy.
The only edge that the Eldar had was psykers, precognition, warp entities, infinite respawn, long lifespans and the webway
>>46434804
And this is an example of "true science"? Necron tech is a poor example, because it works on what ever the author decided sounded cool or needed to happen that day. There's no consistency in their abilities.
>>46433585
>They did not own/colonised it. If they had done so, the whole Galaxy would be one fuckmassive eye of terror.
This. A better example might be France in the 1700s China. Even if the Eldar were more advanced they never matched the scale in numbers or controlled worlds that humanity had. The Eye of Terror used to be the core of the Eldar Empire with the Exodites being the only colonies outside of the core of the Eldar Empire. Humanity on the other hand spread everywhere, hell Macharius was discovering independent human worlds up until he reached the Halo zone and had to turn back.
>>46429805
>I hear a lot about how the Dark Age of Humanity had crazy technology, but was it better than peak Eldar
Yes.
Source : Priest of Mars, an Ark Mechanicus suddently remembers that it got some DAoT ware and 360-no-scope an Eldar cruiser with chrono-weaponry.
>and Necrons?
No.
Some bits of the fluff hint at necrontyr ruins infecting the machines used by human archeologists during DAoT, and being one of the reasons why the Men of Iron revolted.
>>46434833
You can find prefall Eldar colonies, maiden worlds, and exodite worlds at every corner of the galaxy.
Also Eldar have armies of automated warmachines that did not rebel!
>>46434846
Still it's labelled as a product of "true science" within the setting.
>>46434658
>>warp beasts
Hey now, you don't see the DEldar stuffing their warp beasts into their guns, vehicles and dinobots, they just catch and dominate them through sheer force of will.
>>46434877
It is even hinted that there are other former/inhabited Human worlds or even STCs in the Halo zone.
>>46434833
>The fact remains they are still confined in their smalldick space that we now called the Eye of Terror.
They were not confined there. Most of them just did not care to leave the core worlds because there was no reason to.
>>46429805
Seeing as how it was Eldar dominating the galaxy at the time, I'm gonna guess no. Hell, seeing as how Eldar at the time were said to trade heavily with other races, there's a good chance DAoH tech was Eldar tech the entire time.
>>46434932
>they just catch and dominate them through true science
FTFY
>>46434950
HFY
The fact remains that while the Eldar may 'dominate' the Galaxy, the Human race effectively 'controlled' it.
>>46434925
>Still it's labelled as a product of "true science" within the setting.
At this point CWE got more science in their shit than Necrons.
>>46434762
Thats just eldar dicking with your brain to appease their superiority complexes, and remember that not all pieces fluff in codexes are supposed to be believable, so it can be just lies.
>>46435006
Nope. The Eldar blew them the fuck out without even trying or noticing.
What humanity had in their "control" was only because the Eldar had decided they had better things to do.
>>46435014
I disagree.
The Escalation rulebook (paraphrasing) states that Necron technology is built on such far reaching SCIENTIFIC Principles that only the Eldar can struggle to understand some of its basics ideas.
When it comes to true science, nobody can beat the Necrons.
>>46434724
Are any of those supposed to be impressive? A cloaked exterminatus ship is something Eldar have in current 40k, nevermind pre-fall. Eldar had Blackstone Fortresses that could destroy entire star systems. They also had AI that, unlike the Men of Iron, actually worked and succeeded in dominating the galaxy. The entire reason The Fall happened in the first place was because Eldar had literally nothing to do due to automated psychic war constructs.
>>46435053
O'rly? Speranza and the many ships built during that time would beg to differ. The fact remains that Eldar tech isn't tat impressive and their primary strength lies in their hax elf magic.
Stop your fan-wanking. It's wetting da table.
Peak Eldar literally had a machine that made their thoughts real. DAoT ain't got shit on that.
>>46435053
His point really does still stand though. Eldar never had the initiative or drive to expand, they were content to rest on their laurels. Hell even after humanity collapsed the Emperor didn't settle for a modest and stable realm like all of Segmentum Solar, he set out to conquer the entire galaxy.
>>46435020
>remember that not all pieces fluff in codexes are supposed to be believable
I dissagree.
And I also disagree due to the fact that even main rulebooks maintain the superiority of the Eldar at that period.
>>46435094
>O'rly?
Yes.
>Speranza
Massive one of a kind ship that blew up the hick yokel yaught with no actual shielding.
Related question to OP. Do we know how peak Eldar and DAoT humans matched up to Old Ones?
>>46435104
>His point really does still stand though.
In what way?
>Eldar never had the initiative or drive to expand
They once did, but once they turned inward as their power grew and they no longer needed to.
>Hell even after humanity collapsed the Emperor didn't settle for a modest and stable realm like all of Segmentum Solar, he set out to conquer the entire galaxy.
So what?
>>46434925
The funny thing is that Necrons woul be extremely offended if you said that their technology is magic. They would likely murder you for the insult. (picture related).
>>46435020
>Codex fluff doesn't count
Oh fuck off and stick your headcanon up your arse. If rulebook fluff and codices aren't canon then nothing is.
>>46435161
>So what?
Eldar collapsed and focused just on surviving, humanity collapsed and gladly joined the Emperor in conquering the entire galaxy. The point is that Eldar lack the drive and determination that humans have. If the Eldar had similar initiative they would have had some concerted efforts to rebuild the concept of an Eldar Empire outside of Biel-tan sometimes attacking humans who live on what used to be a maiden world.
>>46435285
>>'Re-conquering' and exterminating the Galaxy of foul Xenos scum, even they are more technologically-advanced with wacko warpo powa
>>46435285
Are you arguing who has more determination or who has better tech? The whole reason Eldar were so ennui stricken was because unlike the Men of Iron, their galaxy police actually worked. If anything it worked too well.
>>46435089
They can change the name to Codex: True Science for all I care. But when their fluff both states they lack warp tech and they got tech capable of warp shit, and their dudes are unable to comprehend the warp, yet fuck with it, when their warp defence should be lacking, but are more reliable than anyone else's, I shall remain skeptical.
>>46435285
>gladly joined the Emperor
Is that why they had to subjugate human colonies by force? And how they all fell to anarchy so fast once the Heresy broke out?
Under which rule should the Eldar join under? The DE are basically what's left of the Eldar empire, but the Exodites and CWE left the empire. You think DE would give two shits about joining the deserting faggots of the craftworlds? Besides, what good does joining forces do when their true enemy is Slaanesh, who won't go away no matter how much the band together?
>>46435365
If you gonna nag on consistency in warhams, then I got to tell you that you are in the wrong setting.
>>46429805
DAOH were the undisputed masters of physical space time in a universe where less than a quarter of the relevant universe is physical.
That's basically the issue in a nutshell. They were fucking amazing, but who cares. That's why Emps was playing with the webway.
>>46435517
>DAOH were the undisputed masters of physical space time
Way.
>>46435446
Obviously all the Eldar should unite under the Corsair Prince Yriel of Iyanden the greatest tactician who ever did live, yes sir.
>>46435517
>DAOH were the undisputed masters of physical space time
Not even close, they built shitty defective robots and that was about it.
>>46435449
No, I'm gonna nag about the consistency of Necrons. How many other factions have so much back and forth in each new release?
Arguing who had better tech is slightly stupid. They were all really powerfull and could wipe out the threats in 40k easilly. But without a doubt, military wise, it's Necrons > Eldar > Humanity.
>Necrons had complete control over their tech, were infinite because they can just rebuild warriors, controlled the galaxy and were united
>Eldar had complete control over their tech, were infinite because they could just be reborn, stuck mostly to the area around what is now The Eye of Terror and stood together, but weren't united
>Dark Age of Techonology humanity had complete control over their tech (right untill the Men of Iron rebelled), weren't infinite but still had ridicilous numbers and robots, dominated most of the galaxy, but they probably made only smaller alliances
It's like comparing the psyker powers of the Emperor, Magnus and Malcador. Sure Malcador was the third most powerful psyker ever, but the difference between him and Magnus is still ridicilous.
And all three have fallen far. Infighting, loss of technology and stooping themselves lower than their predeccesors affected all three in varying degrees.
>>46435780
>but weren't united
Says who? I thought the Eldar Empire had a huge Aristocracy that controlled everything.
>>46432293
DAoT humanity would sure as fuck slow down the 'Nids.
>>46434584
Presumably the Eldar before they murderfucked Slaanesh into existence.
>>46435446
>You think DE would give two shits about joining the deserting faggots of the craftworlds?
That's no way to talk about their Battle Brothersjust like Tau once were with both Eldar and Space Marines nevr 4get
>>46434724
Almost like the eldar had some sort of racial fall too....
>>46435090
This
/tg/ ork, eldar, nid, fluff curse strikes again.
>>46435767
All of them? Considering the Imperials has most of the fluff, the Imperials has the Necrons beat.
>>46435990
/tg/ is just bad at fluff in general.
>>46435285
>The point is that Eldar lack the birth rate that humans have.
FTFY
this reminds me of a story I read! I think it was in fateweaver but I'm not entirely sure, if not it would be death of integrity
anyway! in it they had found a DAOT ship in a space hulk, it had super genius human AI, the ability to time travel, controls and weapons beyond their understanding, and was made of living metal.
tl;dr they found a ship from DAOT which was godly amazing
>>46435446
The 3 main eldar factons are all representations of various parts of the pre-fall eldar not just the DE.
The Craftworlders were a thing back then too, sort of like the equivalent of our sea faring cultures they were still eldar but a different sub-culture. The same with the DE, and Exodites which were more or less the rank and file with nothing to do, and the Eldar Amish / Puritans.
>>46435813
Slow them down, yeah. But even the Silent king went all "I wasn't ready for this shit!" and fucked right back to the milky way, when he encountered the the main body of the Tyranid swarm. So that may imply that the tendril Hive fleets ain't got nothing to the main fleet.
>>46435446
All of the Eldar factions got all their chips in the birth of Ynnead.
Though they would need to all die first.
Cegorachs travelling fare of murder clowns also manages to unite the forces of the DE,CWE and exodites from time to time.
>>46435568
Necrons were still dormant during the DAoT iirc.
>>46436043
Care to give examples of this Imperial back and forth fluff on such a major scale as the Necron science?
>>46436238
Craftworlds were just merchant ships. Their time away from the empire allowed them to see the depravity it had fallen into and decided to bail. Their culture was not built around the seers nor the aspects. And the Exodites ditched the empire long before the Fall and chose a simpler life. DE are direct descendants of the empire.
>>46436449
Exodites left the Eldar empire a good while before the fall, while most of the major craftworlds were created and fled almost right before it actually happened, which is why places like Altansar were sucked into the Eye or Terror, and Ulthwe pretty much orbits the eye. Iyanden and others that are further away probably left earlier, like you said.
Dark Eldar are pretty much the descendants of Eldar that had their pleasure cults in the webway, and especially Commorragh. It's suggested that some of the older haemonculi are the very same eldar that witnessed the fall.
>>46436405
HH series.
>>46429805
Nah, way behind the necrons, and they were behind the eldar, they just had a lot better stuff than they currently do and were advancing stuff pretty rapidly
>>46435094
Necrons> Pre-Fall Eldar > Dark Eldar> Eldar >>> DAoT humans>>> Imperium of man = Tau > Orks > Tyranids
Eldar do use psychic shit and warp shit yes, but their basic tech also blows humanitys shit out the water
>>46436242
In a couple of the tyranid codex and the main rulebook it outright states that the current hive fleets are but the grasping fingers of the main fleet and are nothing but the tiniest fraction of whats to come
Leviathan alone requires the imperial guard to increase 500% in size to stand a chance of winning so... Lets hope Necrons all wake up and unite and attempt to stop them
>>46429805
on par with the Eldars, but not even close to the Necrons.
>>46429805
>I hear a lot about how the Dark Age of Humanity had crazy technology, but was it better than peak Eldar and Necrona?
>Peak Eldar
Yes.
>Peak Necron
No.
>>46437159
Incorrect.
>>46437269
>>I hear a lot about how the Dark Age of Humanity had crazy technology, but was it better than peak Eldar and Necrona?
>>Peak Eldar
>Yes.
No.
People show start posting proofs.
There are no credible or conclusive sources on what, just exactly, DAoT humanity was capable of in terms of technology, only stuff that occasionally comes out of a Magos's asshole to serve as a magic 'fix impending doom' button every other story. Then again, we also have few or no reliable sources in regards to the pinnacle of Eldar technology or the pinnacle of Necron technology.
This is an utterly pointless argument because nobody has any reliable sources to substantiate any claims. The only thing we know for sure is that Necron tech was more advanced than Eldar tech during their respective primes.
On DAoT vs necrons, the answer is necrons
On DAoT vs eldar, it's impossible to call. We have quite a bit of knowledge regarding the eldars power, but its impossible to tell what DAoT's level. We have many examples of amazing feats, like the many forms or archeotech, all the special weapons of the imperium, that one ship that's already been mentioned, but we don't know if that stuff was the norm for DAoT mankind or if it was rare even back then.
Without that info, you simply can't call that fight
>>46429805
Not better then Eldar but Daot humanity probobly had greater numbers
necrons no but humanity might be able to put up some kind of fight
>>46437749
>Without that info, you simply can't call that fight
Eldar had a machine that made their thoughts real.
They win.
m-m-my necrona
>>46437928
But we have no way of knowing if mankind during DAoT had something to counter it.
We just don't know.
>>46437949
>But we have no way of knowing if mankind during DAoT had something to counter it.
They didn't. They had primitive robots.
>>46437143
That makes me hope, that when the story evolves into tons of shit hitting the jet engine, the emperor returns so humanity has at least a small chance of not being totally analy anihalated
>>46437143
>Leviathan alone requires the imperial guard to increase 500% in size to stand a chance of winning
Technically that bit was a proposal in reference to the as-yet-unseen main force. Still pretty grim.
>>46437143
>Leviathan alone requires the imperial guard to increase 500% in size to stand a chance of winning so...
That was Tyranids in general, not just Leviathan.
>>46434276
No, the timeywimey problem was due to the hrud
Other races aren't even trying.
>>46438403
I am talking about device not the shenanigans that happened at the end of the novel. The device can regress planets and suns, create planets, stars, even galaxies if fed enough power. How does it do this? By siphoning cosmic energies from the future, past, and the present.
>>46437976
And weaponized time machines. DAoT wins
>>46438649
You're talking about a people whose military capabilities were so poor that when their military turned on them it lost.
Meanwhile the Eldar were invincible and unchallenged rulers of the galaxy. They became so bored that the force of their boredom fucked over DAoT mankind unintentionally, as a mere side effect.
>The Cadian Pylons are located on a world at the edge of the Eye of Terror
>They are the only things preventing the Eye from expanding and eventually enveloping the entire galaxy
Were presence on Cadia an act of foresight or was it just blind luck that prevented a galaxy scale disaster?
>>46438734
No, I am talking about a people whose military capability was one of the first to be corrupted by chaos. Mankind didn't know that chaos was a thing, the warp was getting more terrible by the day because the eldar were watching gachi for the plot and fucking the warp up.
Eldar constructs like you mentioned were psychic. Weapons like that would be shielded against warp interference far more than unshielded human tech. Its less because human tech was shitty all around and more because human tech had an achilles heel that was never even thought to be a problem.
Also the elf pattern of seeding planets was extremely elegant, and too impractical. Humanity meanwhile created more rough and ready tech that was reliable enough to colonize more worlds more rapidly.
If eldar tech was a weeb sword folded 1 mirrion times by master swordsmith, imperial tech was the mass produced swords the japs used during ww2. It might not have the finish of the former, but it worked just as well in cutting off heads.
>>46438829
Depends on source. Just as whether or not they're actually stopping the Eye from expanding or merely keeping a passage open into it.
>>46438909
As detailed in the CSM codex and Black Legion supplement, Abaddon's Crimson Path which revolves around expanding the Eye towards Terra hinges on destroying the Cadia Pylons.
>>46434297
>>46434558
It seems magical to the IoM, I the way that people sending messages to each other instantly via boxes that glow with light seems magical to a medieval human. When it's actually just computers
>>46438994
>It seems magical to the IoM
Well everything seems magical to the guys who pray to a toaster to deliver bread
>>46438903
>No, I am talking about a people whose military capability was one of the first to be corrupted by chaos.
Prove it.
>Also the elf pattern of seeding planets was extremely elegant, and too impractical.
They were beyond practicality you idiot. That was the point, they didn't want rough and ready worlds, if they wanted a new world they would have a world fitting to their particular fetish. In one novel we see a planet from before the Fall created specifically for one Eldar.
The Eldar were past the point of giving a shit because they had been there and done it all.
>>46438978
The Crimson Path isn't about expanding the entire Eye. It's about creating a pathway of destruction from Cadia onwards to weaken reality and allow his daemonic allies to break through. The pylons aren't stopping him from weakening reality. The pylons are stopping him from weakening reality around Cadia, and defeating Cadia not only boosts his own ego and shows everyone how big his dick is, but also makes sure there's no massive enemy fortress behind his back as he makes his way towards Terra.
Only problem I see with this plan is that the reason why the Cadia Gate is a big deal is because it's the safest passage into the Eye. If he destroys it and his plan fails, any future engagement he's forced to make would require him to fly out of the Eye without the safety of the Gate, making it much more difficult.
>>46439079
Abby never was known to be very bright.
>>46435758
Really? Do you think your computer would still be working after 3 million years in a cave?
>>46437313
Repudiated
>>46436515
Vect saw that shit.
>>46439079
>The Crimson Path isn't about expanding the entire Eye.
But it will. We have a passage that shows the future in which Abaddon makes it to Terra. The Eye had grown across the galaxy and can be seen from every star system.
The Cadian Pylons act as a dam that preventing that.
>>46439063
>Prove it.
the Gaunt's ghosts novels have an STC recovered for creating MoI and it is corrupted by chaos. Direct in universe example of them being corrupted.
>They were beyond practicality you idiot. That was the point, they didn't want rough and ready worlds, if they wanted a new world they would have a world fitting to their particular fetish. In one novel we see a planet from before the Fall created specifically for one Eldar.
It didn't matter. End of the day the eldar empire stagnated and died and took the humans along with them. Humanity got KO'ed by the eldar's fall.
>>46439328
That was a vision. The text talking about his plan says he plans to wipe out Cadia to ensure it no longer bothers him and cause so much mayhem that the warp breaks through and allows his daemonic allies to come forth, then he will continue this mayhem towards Terra, forming a path of destruction and trailing the daemonic forces in his tow, to ensure that the Imperium falls once and for all.
>>46439426
>Humanity got KO'ed by the eldar's fall.
I thought that was by the MoI revolt
>>46429805
What was that one novel where a DaoT ship sniped a necron cruiser through the warp?
>>46439808
It was a lot of things anon, MoI and the Eldar fall causing Daemons everywhere were the two biggies,
>>46439426
>the Gaunt's ghosts novels have an STC recovered for creating MoI and it is corrupted by chaos. Direct in universe example of them being corrupted.
That doesn't prove anything, it proves that that particular machine was corrupted. But it doesn't even prove when it was corrupted, remember only newer robots were produced corrupted all the old ones were normal.
>Humanity got KO'ed by the eldar's fall.
They go KO'ed by the prelude to the Eldar's fall. The actual Fall of the Eldar allowed the Emperor to start the Great Crusade.
>>46438903
>>46437928
>>46439554
>>46437575
>>46437109
>>46434762
>58 posters
>145 posts
Why are elfags so convinced they're always right?
>>46437690
Basically the lore on all fronts degenerate into post-singularity techno-magic and warp fuckery; basically "as powerful as the plot requires". This would seem to indicate that these groups are all functionally equivalent, as all function as a deus ex machina limited only by the rule-of-cool.
The best quantifiable, apples-to-apples comparison I've seen is provided by the Treasure Generator in Rogue Trader: Stars of Iniquity. This system starts with a basic item (current IoM tech level) and then adds features depending on it's alien or archeotech origin.
Start with a basic rifle...
The Eldar version would more efficient; increasing the damage by 10-20% and quadrupling the clip size (i.e. 20 shots per clip becomes 80 shots per clip).
The Necron version is an energy weapon with unlimited ammo and a 10% chance of completely by-passing the target's armor.
The archeotech version has more options. It would have some combination of increased accuracy and reliability, double the range, 10-20% increase in armor penetration, 10-30% increase in damage, or be indestructible and never jam.
The gist is Eldar tech is more elegant and efficient than DAoT human tech, but potentially less powerful. Meanwhile, Necron tech never runs out of power and has other special advantages, usually based on special energy fields. Compared to either Eldar or Necrons human archeotech is precision engineered, overpowered, and/or indestructible. This pattern holds across weapons, gear, and star-ship components.
>>46440165
> Less than 3 posts per person
So you want a conversation or do you just want me to call you a faggot?
>>46440103
>That doesn't prove anything, it proves that that particular machine was corrupted. But it doesn't even prove when it was corrupted, remember only newer robots were produced corrupted all the old ones were normal.
It is proof enough that IoM tech can be corrupted. That doesn't make it bad at what it was supposed to do.
>They go KO'ed by the prelude to the Eldar's fall. The actual Fall of the Eldar allowed the Emperor to start the Great Crusade.
No, the eldar churned up the warp so much that FTL travel was all but impossible. That brought the DAoT down. Humanity fell because the eldar messed shit up.
>>46440210
It's less that and more xenofuckers crawling out of the wordwork saying 'no git ever beats da elves eva'. Which just isn't true. DaoT tech was stupid good, while elder tech was basically "I cast magic missile" with souls and drugs instead of actually working with the laws of physics. Magic is effective in 40k, but you'd be hard pressed to call the way eldar test their guns something resembling the scientific method.
>>46431869
>>46431896
>>46432561
<mfw your comments
This is the most retarded shit I've read on /tg/. Jesus Lord. Such a simplification for an interestingly complex explanation.
The Eldar largely represent the ancient civilizations of Greece, Asia, Egypt, and the Celts (see Greek helms on Dire Avengers, the ying yang on Asurmen, Baharroth is Horus of ancient Egypt, the Banshees of Irish mythology). This is also why they are pagans and have such ancient/homely styled symbology (Ulthwe and the Egyptian eye, Iyanden and the universal hearth, the name Saim-Hann is an old Celtic Pagan festivity, etc).
The human empire is the middle ages and represents a variety of things but is largely focused on single deity worship (the emperor aka Christ). The Black Templars represent general knights from Europe, the White Scars are the Huns/Mongols who were known to purposely scar their face so they wouldn't develop facial hair (the Huns became Christian), Blood Angels are the Latins of Italy, Thousand Sons represent the fall of Egypt to Islam, Dark Angels are the Jews (often viewed with suspicion), Ultramarines are Byzantium, Space Wolves are the Scandinavians redeemed by their conversion to Christianity. Chaos legions in general are demon worshippers, nothing hidden here, they literally represent Satan worship against the Lord's true teachings (the emperor). Obviously Horus slaying emprah resembles Judas betraying Jesus.
The Dark Eldar represent the rise of the future and atheism, a civilization of only flesh and its end result. They are the most advanced technologically, the most merciless, have no guilt, they bow to no one and live for the present.
Obviously not everything is tied to the above symbols but W40k is largely centered around human history in vague references to various civilizations even multiple civilization at various points in history (Necrons are the 'bad' ancient Egyptians, Swooping Hawks are the light of Ancient Egypt, Thousand Sons - the fall of Egypt).
So here no one know the answer and are speculating with their head cannon?
>>46440311
>It is proof enough that IoM tech can be corrupted.
That was already fucking obvious. But just because something can be corrupted doesn't mean it is corrupted.
>That doesn't make it bad at what it was supposed to do.
It was bad in that it lost a war against civilians.
>No, the eldar churned up the warp so much that FTL travel was all but impossible.
Yeah, the Eldar fucked the DAoT humans, without even trying. That's my point. That's the difference between them.
>>46440412
>It's less that and more xenofuckers crawling out of the wordwork saying 'no git ever beats da elves eva'.
Eldar get beaten plenty.
DAoT was not one of those times.
> elder tech was basically "I cast magic missile" with souls and drugs instead of actually working with the laws of physics.
Eldar technology totally works with the laws of physics.
>you'd be hard pressed to call the way eldar test their guns something resembling the scientific method.
How? It works, it's repeatable. It's a science.
>>46440412
>It's less that and more xenofuckers crawling out of the wordwork saying 'no git ever beats da elves eva'
All I see is HFY-faggots ignoring canon fluff.
>>46440520
>That was already fucking obvious. But just because something can be corrupted doesn't mean it is corrupted.
no the fact that your loyal murderbots turn on you on a fucking whim means there was chaos fuckery involved.
>they lost to civilians
After a fuckhuge war against sentient space machines that shot out black holes and had timecannons.
>the eldar fucked DAoT w/o trying
No, they fucked with the warp which indirectly fucked with the FTL methods of travelling that the humans had Which in turn fucked them.
It is like the chinese saying that they destroyed the WRE on purpose by driving the huns away.
>>46440891
>no the fact that your loyal murderbots turn on you on a fucking whim means there was chaos fuckery involved.
No it doesn't. That's completely imagined. The idea of robots rebelling against people is probably as old as the idea of the robot itself. No demons necessary.
>After a fuckhuge war
Yes, that they lost. The robots made to kill stuff lost to dudes who were not made to do anything. So they fail on two counts.
One, shitty loyalty.
Two, shitty fighting.
>No, they fucked with the warp which indirectly fucked with the FTL methods of travelling that the humans had Which in turn fucked them.
>It is like the chinese saying that they destroyed the WRE on purpose by driving the huns away.
I'm not saying the Eldar destroyed them on purpose, that's actually my point. There was never any fight. There was never any grand plan by the Eldar to fuck the humans up. Mankind simply got step on and wasn't even noticed. To say they were superior to the Eldar when they got wasted by the Eldar accidentally without the Eldar even noticing them is laughable.
Imagine some spear chuckin tribe living on an island somewhere. Then one day they are wiped out by a tsunami of raw sewage from a first world nation. That's DAoT and the Eldar's relationship.
>>46436449
>DE are direct descendants of the empire.
All Eldar are. The only difference is Deldar didn't stop being fuckwits. Craftworlds left at the last possible moment. Seers and Aspects were created post-Fall by Asurmen when he created the Paths.
>>46429829
THE END
>>46441079
>I'm not saying the Eldar destroyed them on purpose, that's actually my point. There was never any fight. There was never any grand plan by the Eldar to fuck the humans up. Mankind simply got step on and wasn't even noticed. To say they were superior to the Eldar when they got wasted by the Eldar accidentally without the Eldar even noticing them is laughable.
The eldar wasted the entire warp themselves. So much so that they lost parts of their entire webway to chaos down the line. They were so high on popper that they burned down the neighborhood and realized it was too late when their garden caught fire.
The eldar killed humanity not through their oh so superior space elf technology or culture but because they were busy being fuckwits.
>>46441235
>All Eldar are.
CWE and Exodites abandoned the empire and built their own societies and ways of life. DE continued from where the empire left.
>>46434658
In a world where the soul empirically exists, such as in 40k, where it can be measured, manipulated and studied than it be scientificaally studied.
Same for the Immaterium and immaterium warp technologies like warp-drives or psyker powers
Warp sorcery is bit different though because of it's involvement with sentient beings beyond our comprehension. In our world sentient beings are still governed by laws of biology and chemistry and physics. God knows what, if anything governs a being like Tzeentch in the Immaterium (though warp entities do have rules governing them quite a bit when they cross over into the plain old materium of course)
>>46441305
>The eldar killed humanity not through their oh so superior space elf technology or culture but because they were busy being fuckwits.
Again, that's the point.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY.
Humanity cannot be superior when they got completely BTFO by a people who weren't even trying to BTFO of them. Humanity was collateral damage in the Eldar's galactic orgy.
Humanity was blasted back to the dark ages by a rogue cum shot.
>>46441310
That's still direct descent. In many ways, Craftworlds better reflect the Pre-Fall empire. Unlike Deldar, they still use some Pre-Fall tech, which the non-psychic Deldar can't use. Deldar would literally by unable to live like Pre-Fall Eldar due to their psychic inaptitude. They only reflect one aspect of the Eldar empire towards the end of its existence - the depraved pleasure cults, which started as a subculture before taking over in the latter days of the Empire before everything went to fuck.
>>46441439
>suck so much you create a demonic gateway and a god of excess hellbent on torturing souls
>lol, we got u humans, it was all part of our plan
>>46441423
Yet the warp is suppose to be beyond logic and reason, not bound by causality.
>>46441476
Well done anon, that's exactly what he said. Well done on not avoiding the point.
>>46440818
You say that, but orks have kicked eldar, imperial, chaos, and necron asses before.
Orks still kick eldar asses in the 40th millennium, and eldar players think so damn often that they're the best army to ever live. Eldar are prideful, eldar players are prideful.
>>46440574
>Eldar technology totally works with the laws of physics.
Their guns are made out of wraithbone.
>>46441476
its just a space elf wanker. Its like a guy who posts scat fetish because it gives him a chubby and later says he was doing it to get a rise out of people.
>>46441513
That was exactly what the Pre fall eldar did. They got high and murderfucked the galaxy. And they did it with their minds, not with their super technology. Yes they had psychic robots. Those did nothing when their empire crumbled from the inside out
>>46441476
>>suck so much you create a demonic gateway and a god of excess hellbent on torturing souls
>suck so much
The complete opposite, they created the god because they got bored and had nothing better to do but reach highs of depravity and pleasure unseen in this universe before. Because nothing else was able to bother them and challenge their position in the universe.
>>lol, we got u humans, it was all part of our plan
Like this guy said: no, it wasn't. Humans didn't even show up on the radar of the pre-fall Eldar.They were basically the Tau of their time
>>46440477
Anon, are you autistic?
We're not discussing culture you fucking moron, but politics. The HRE and England resemble Humanity/Eldar due to the HRE largely overshadowing England in power for much of the Early/High Middle Ages, but really keeping to itself. Then England in the future surges forward as the middle ages carry on, becoming a superpower in the end and utterly dominating the region.
>>46434221
I think humanity at that point could be compared to the steadily advancing barbarians at the gates of decadent Rome. The Germanics weren't too far behind in many technologies compared to the Romans, and perhaps the same can be said for eldar and humanity. Of course, the tech-bases are actually pretty divergent and many aren't very comparable at all.
>>46441474
>That's still direct descent.
How? Their whole society and way of life is different. They've disowned themselves from the Empire. Their whole thing was the leave the empire. How the fuck are they a continuation of the empire?
Commorragh was the port city of the Eldar empire, so what ever tech they have is from the empire.
>Craftworlds better reflect the Pre-Fall empire
How? Because I don't remember pre-Fall empire being a bunch of Buddhist monks denying their emotions and meditating on the ancient riddle of shoveling lizard shit real good until they went mad.
>They only reflect one aspect of the Eldar empire towards the end of its existence - the depraved pleasure cults, which started as a subculture before taking over in the latter days of the Empire before everything went to fuck.
Eldar who survived the destruction of the empire, in the port city of the empire, and continue doing what the people of the empire did, are less like the empire than people who left the empire because they didn't want to be like the people of the empire.
Makes perfect sense!
>>46441611
but the dark eldar don't use psychic tech at all.
>>46441558
>That was exactly what the Pre fall eldar did
You avoided his point by shitposting with a green text strawman. It wasn't a difficult point to grasp, but fuck me did you try your hardest to be an obstinate fuckmunch.
He specifically said multiple times that the Eldar didn't plan on it, but you, mongoloid you are, still put those words in his mouth, because you have nothing better to retort with.
>>46434484
That's IOM tech, not DAOT tech.
>>46441611
>Their whole thing was the leave the empire.
It was leave the crazy people and the monsters running around in the Empire.
Imagine if America became a liberal hellhole and so the conservatives decided to sail away before it blew up.
Both liberals and conservatives are descendants of America.
>>46441649
He doesn't even have a point. The dark eldar didn't plan on anything at all. They were constantly trying to score the next hit and they fucked over the immaterium in the process. To use that as an example of eldar might is useless. Its like saying that the radiation poisoning from Chernobyl was an example of the USSR teaching the pesky Pripyat dwellers how mighty they were without even using a nuclear warhead.
>>46441642
So, how do they feed on the pain and souls of their victims? How do they siphon your soul, store it, and then feed on it? How do they stuff the souls of daemons and psykers into little cubes and unleash on the enemy? How do they make webway portals?
And, again, Commorragh was built by the empire and was an important hub. If it's full of non-psychic tech, maybe it's just possible that not everything in the empire was made from wraithbone and shit. Seeing how much training and concentration it takes to even use CWE weapons and armour, surely people of the empire seeking decadence would not have time for shit like that.
>>46441711
>Its like saying that the radiation poisoning from Chernobyl was an example of the USSR teaching the pesky Pripyat dwellers how mighty they were without even using a nuclear warhead.
But it isn't about teaching anything.
You could say it is an example of how vastly more powerful the USSR was than the Pripyat dwellers though.
>>46441611
>How?
Because they directly descend from the empire. Do you know what the words direct descent mean? During the Empire, they lived on merchant ships to and now they still do, only they've militarised the fuck out of them.
>How?
I already explained. They use the tech the empire used.
>and continue doing what the people of the empire did,
Except they don't. The vast majority of things the Empire did are verboten to them now because everything worked on psyker tech. The things that made the Empire what it was, psychic tech, is unusable to them. They can't use any of the shit the Eldar empire ran on. They only reflect ONE aspect of the empire - its dying days. Craftworlds actually reflect the stable elements of the Empire that traded with other races and used magi-tech.
>>46441693
Except in this case the hardcore tea party put on pilgrim hats and went off to live in Alaska in the ways of their forefathers, abandoning anything resembling the US, and the rest of the conservatives adopted a lifestyle closer to a Catholic monk than a red blooded American, while the liberals continued to live their socialist America on Hawaii.
>>46441559
But they didn't hold a significant portion of the galaxy. Humanity did. Macharius found uncontacted human worlds millenia after the Great Crusade united most of humanity under the Imperium. Necron Tomb Worlds are everywhere too and they aren't something the Eldar would leave functioning. All this implies that no matter how great the Eldar were, they stuck to the part of the galaxy that later became The Eye of Terror and didn't leave it.
>>46441790
>But it isn't about teaching anything.
>You could say it is an example of how vastly more powerful the USSR was than the Pripyat dwellers though.
no it would be an example of the USSR ruining a nuclear reactor because they were too stupid to go through procedure while recklessly trying out new experiments.
>>46441759
>How do they stuff the souls of daemons and psykers into little cubes and unleash on the enemy?
Necrons do it with science.
Their pokeballs capture daemons and use the warp energy from their essences to power the zero point generator. The more the daemon struggles the more powerful the binding becomes.
Also mentioned before, the Necrons have a special scythe that can rip out souls from people.
> How do they make webway portals?
Necrons also can create those. Dolmen gates!
Unless you want to argue that Necron tech is warp tech, then you would concede that these feats are not warp tech exclusive.
>So, how do they feed on the pain and souls of their victims?
The result of developing the thirst.
>>46441860
>Do you know what the words direct descent mean?
I do not mean biological descendant. I mean direct continuation of what was to what is now. CWE abandoned the empire, they chose another way of life.
>They use the tech the empire used.
What do you think Commorragh is?
>because everything worked on psyker tech
Commorragh doesn't. So, [citation needed].
>They only reflect ONE aspect of the empire - its dying days.
Yes, because they're continuing off from there.
>Craftworlds actually reflect the stable elements of the Empire that traded with other races and used magi-tech.
Do provide evidence that CWE society is anything like the empire in the past. And that's in fact what they modeled their society on.
>>46441864
>the hardcore tea party put on pilgrim hats and went off to live in Alaska in the ways of their forefathers
Were their forefather's not American?
>the rest of the conservatives adopted a lifestyle closer to a Catholic monk than a red blooded American
But they could argue that they are closer to the red blooded american than what the liberals were. Their culture has changed in the years since, but they can still think of themselves as a truer version.
>while the liberals continued to live their socialist America on Hawaii.
But what if their culture also changed? Remember the Dark Eldar did not remain static, they used to be ruled by noble houses and are not a complete meritocracy. They do not use their psychic power which is the same as living blind or deaf to the Eldar of old.
>>46441883
You have also webway gates all over the galaxy as much as Eldar ruins. This is why Biel-Tan fought on Baran.
>>46441938
>no it would be an example of the USSR ruining a nuclear reactor
And in doing so completely BTFO of smaller, less powerful people.
>>46441476
You're a fucking moron who can't read.
>>46441962
>Their pokeballs capture daemons and use the warp energy from their essences to power the zero point generator. The more the daemon struggles the more powerful the binding becomes.
[citation needed]
>Necrons have a special scythe that can rip out souls from people.
You mean the scythe that's unique and made by the C'tan, not the Necrons?
>Necrons also can create those. Dolmen gates!
You mean the one C'tan gave the Necrons the Dolmen Gates?
>The result of developing the thirst.
Do explain the science of this.
>>46442017
yes, and it would be known that the USSR blew up a nuclear reactor
Not
>USSR so mighty that it blows up a nucular reactor and doesn't afraid of anything
>>46441711
>He doesn't even have a point.
Fuck me nigger, he could literally drive his point through your thick skull and you'd still yell NUH UH. You've done everything you could possibly do to avoid Humanity was just collateral damage to the whims of a much larger empire. Were does teching come into you straw manning fuck? How many times do multiple posters need to tell you that it's nothing to do with intent, but the fact they had that kind of power at all.
They were so complacent in aeons of galactic dominance that the warp blast of sheer psychic boredom was enough to fart out humanities best and brightest like a candle in the wind. While humanity was struggling not to get killed by its own shitty AI, Eldar automated war machines were working so well that an entire race was left with nothing to do but pursue the greatest danger wanks of all time.
>>46442000
>Remember the Dark Eldar did not remain static
The mad scientist homunculus covens have no changed at all. Someone them are old enough to have operated during the pre-fall times.
>>46442043
It's not about how mighty the USSR is in this case, but the difference in strength between the USSR and the people living in Pripyat.
Let's rephrase the OP.
>I hear a lot about how Pripyat was crazy powerful, but was it better than peak USSR and USA?
>>46429805
You might as well ask the true question,
if the emperor rose from his golden throne,
and seized control of all of humanity,
could humanity "win"?
>>46442000
>Were their forefather's not American?
Pilgrims came from England.
>But they could argue that they are closer to the red blooded american than what the liberals were.
So can I, but I don't think anyone would take me seriously on that claim.
>Their culture has changed in the years since, but they can still think of themselves as a truer version.
When have CWE or Exodites claimed to be the true Eldar empire?
>But what if their culture also changed?
Is it a natural evolution of a society or an exodus that ends up forming a whole new society that doesn't want anything to do with the old one?
>>46442098
If the emperor came back, I think humanity would quickly smash down everyone but the tyranids, necrons and chaos.
>>46442039
>[citation needed]
Grey Knight codex
>You mean the scythe that's unique and made by the C'tan, not the Necrons?
Rumored to belong to a C'tan but that's besides the point. The C'tan are being with no connection of the Warp. Purely physical beings. This means physical things such as non-warp tech can affect the warp. You know, like the pokeballs.
>You mean the one C'tan gave the Necrons the Dolmen Gates?
The Burning One granted the Necrons the knowledge. The Necrons made it a science and then into the technology called the Dolmen Gates.
You have no point.
>Do explain the science of this.
No science or meaningful warp sorcery on the part of the Dark Eldar since they cannot into the Warp du to their stunted psychic abilities. It's just side effect of Slaanesh feasting on their souls
>>46442048
He doesn't HAVE A FUCKING POINT
THE eldar were sequestered in their tiny corner of the galaxy doing drugs while humanity expanded among the stars. They did so without having a magic webway gifted to them.
The eldar just fortified their corner of space and jacked off until they destroyed the galaxy.
>they were so complacent that they farted out humanity
Because they were designed as a psychic weapon to throw against the necrons. Much like a leaky battery they got ruined from disuse and blew up. They didn't do it with their oh so special tech. They did it because they went haywire on a species level and blew up.
Also, humanity expanded among the stars in the last 40k years, when the eldar were way into their edgy phase.
>>46441570
>are you autistic
Gee I don't know, I mean my pic was titled 'you triggered my aspergers asshole'. The simplification of humanity or the Eldar in w40k to the comparison of a couple nations or empires in real human history based on "overshadowing in power" is ridiculous given the obvious tells on what we know about them. It is just illogical to make it so simple.
Also the topic is DAOT, which correlates with the in-between period of the "materialistic" pagan world and the rise of monotheism (didn't think this needed to be said). It represents a period where more materialistic notions were prevalent and technology was advancing more steadily (yes this is prior to the rise of HRE or England), this would take place during the time period when the real Roman Empire still existed, and no I'm not talking about Byzantium. Fuck your England and HRE comparison.
There's literally a million examples of overshadowing powers in human history. A cultural comparison is better because it is clearly what the setting was based around.
>>46442006
Yet they still didn't do shit. I can accept that they left humanity alone because they thought it couldn't pose a credible threat. But leaving Necrons, the enemy they were literally created to destroy, alone raises some flags.
>>46442098
Yes. Because the Emperor can only be reborn once humanity achieves it's psychic evolution and thus becoming incorruptible. If he dies before that, best case scenario Terra erupts into a new Eye of Terror and most of humanity into Daemons, worst case scenario Chaos destroys reality.
>>46442186
Nah, several anons have proven you to be a huge retard that goes deliberately against canon fluff because you can't stand space elves being superior at some point in their history.
>>46430871
Bullshit.
The Eldar Empire was not rivaled by anything. That is a core fucking aspect of their fluff. The fact that they had no threats, or strife to keep shit interesting, as their automated warriors kept simply expanding their realm, and keeping lesser races in check, is one of the reasons why they fell to the boredom, and eventual decadence.
DAoT humanity might have been powerful, but they were fucking nothing when compared to the Pre-Fall Eldar, who are described to have been the UNDISPUTED masters of the galaxy at their height.
>>46442306
I am not even the last guy you were talking to.
Face it, the eldar had the galaxy to themselves and they fucked it up for EVERY FUCKING ONE. That is what the eldar empire did. They tore open a new hole into reality and turned the warp into a new hell.
>>46442173
>One such temporary alliance has yielded the Tesseract Labyrinths: strange objects crafted with heretical science by cunning alien hands. Each one is a cube, roughly the size of a Space Marine’s fist, covered in a precise geometric web of circuitry. The Tesseract Labyrinths possess the ability not only to trap Warp creatures but also to contain them within the esoteric energy field of its zero-point reactor. The power of the Daemon is then contained by its own essence; the more it fights against the Tesseract, the stronger the bonds of its prison become.
-Grey Knight codex
But wait there is more!
>The Lord of Change chose the world of Sargotha, deep within the wilds of the Ghoul Stars, a cursed place avoided even by the Orks that plagued that region. The root cause of the shadow that hung over Sargotha lay within its countless obsidian pyramids, vast megalithic structures left behind by some forgotten xenos architect. More than mere physical structures, each one seemed to still the Warp around it and drink in psychic energy. M’kachen knew if he could lure Stern to Sargotha, it would rob the Grey Knight of much of his psychic power.
>However, the Lord of Change had to tread with care, for the same pyramids that would give him the advantage were anathema to Daemonkind. So it was that M’kachen possessed the body of an unwitting Cultist and used him as a vessel, before laying a trail of blood and death bearing the Daemon’s mark that would bring Stern right to him.
-Grey Knight codex
There is more still.
>It's man against twisted, corrupted Space Marine in the heart of a warp-funnelling monolith. A handful of Imperial Guardsmen take on a host of deadly Raptors in a fight to the finish.
-Monolith (Short story).
So it has been established that warp/psychic energy can be harnessed by real space SCIENCE.
>>46442270
>But leaving Necrons, the enemy they were literally created to destroy, alone raises some flags
Shitty writing? They just ignored that they should actually have killed off all the Necrons? Somewhere I read that the excuse is that the Eldar completely forgot why they were created, while the Necrons went to sleep and waited until the problem would go away. I don't know if this is headcanon from /tg/ or where else I could have read this.
>>46442320
Sorry anon, but the Ark Mechanicus wrecks Eldar ships.
>>46442350
>Face it, the eldar had the galaxy to themselves and they fucked it up for EVERY FUCKING ONE
Absolutely no one is desputing this. This was not the point of the argument.
>>46442380
Yes, and?
Fluffwise, the DAoT humanity was still fucking small game in comparison to the Eldar Empire.
>>46442358
The Eldar weren't created to fight Necrons, they were just recruited into the War. The Eldar just didn't have the desire to fuck with the Necrons any more.
>>46442380
NO
ELDAR SHIPS STRONK
HUMAN TECH SHITTY
WE WUZ SO STRONG THAT WE TORE THE GALAXY A NEW ASSHOLE
>>46442398
They aren't so undisputed if humans' mass produced ships were stronger.
>>46442358
(picture related) and the Eldar codex 6th ED give reasons behind it.
The Eldar thought they were invincible and godlike. They no longer feared the Necrons as the ages went by, that was how much arrogant they were becoming.
>>46442173
>Grey Knight codex
Your claim that the daemons power the generator is bullshit. Second, do provide evidence that Necrons have captured daemons with these, since it has taken the GK massive campaigns to bind daemons into them, and even they have been lesser daemons.
>The C'tan are being with no connection of the Warp. Purely physical beings.
With the ability to devour souls.
>they cannot into the Warp du to their stunted psychic abilities
But Necrons and C'tan can? Where does this double-think end?
>It's just side effect of Slaanesh feasting on their souls
Does the same side effect allow the C'tan to consume souls?
>>46442320
Except the Eldar Empire was largely located in hammerspace and they stayed the fuck away from the sprawling human-xenos federation that covered much of the galaxy during the DAOT. Who were all toting black hole guns.
>>46442398
Fluffwise actually the Eldar were tiny and irrelevant. They kept to the Webway and only occupied a tiny portion of the galaxy. Humanity meanwhile allied with multiple other species in giant federations and controlled most of the galaxy in a massive civilization the remnants of are scattered further than the Eldar ever were.
>>46442439
>Except the Eldar Empire was largely located in hammerspace
Only a small minority actually.
>they stayed the fuck away from the sprawling human-xenos federation that covered much of the galaxy during the DAOT.
They stayed wherever they wanted. This mostly being their coreworlds because there was no reason to leave.
>>46441883
Eldar maiden worlds are also found scattered across every corner. Same shit applies.
>became The Eye of Terror and didn't leave it.
You know why craftworlds were originally built right? You know why Webways reach every pocket of the galaxy yeah?
>>46442402
Actually, the Oldcron codex and Liber Chaotica (Slaansh) outright state it.
Nothing n the old lore goes against this. Recent novels (Necron material and the Talon of Horus) still refer to the Eldar as a child-slave race for the Old Ones.
FFG even states that the Eldar were the greatest of the Old Ones servant races.
One wonders if humanity recovered from the shitty Imperium period and also continue to evolve into an all-Psyker race, would the end result be something like a fusion of DaoT-tech, with its love of space, time, and general physics fuckery, and Eldar-tech, where the humans invent technology meant to capitalize on psyker powers?
>>46442402
>They are the creators of the Eldar and many other intelligent races of the galaxy such as the Slann and the Jokaero, as well as the possible ancestors of the Orks, and are known to Mankind mainly through Eldar mythology
Why is it so hard for Imperial fags to admit that humans were not the top dogs of the galaxy at one point?
The Pre Fall Eldar being the masters of the galaxy is one of the most elementary aspects of the background fluff of 40k, and yet, people still deny it, going "nah ah, muh DAoT humanity were the actual masters of the galaxy!", when the codexes, and the Big Book itself, all flat out stat otherwise.
>>46442496
>Actually, the Oldcron codex and Liber Chaotica (Slaansh) outright state it.
Nope. They were created by the Old Ones, but not to fight the Necrons, this is covered in Libre Chaotica.
>>46442504
You too.
>>46442510
Elf hate meme.
>>46442492
>You know why Webways reach every pocket of the galaxy yeah
because the old ones made it as a quick way of transportation.
>>46442350
>Face it, the eldar had the galaxy to themselves and they fucked it up for EVERY FUCKING ONE
Wow, good thing that was never the argument being made.
>Oh shit, I lost an argument! What do I do!?
>I know, I'll push an angle no one is actually saying
>They'll never notice!
>>46442510
It's probably HFY trolls. Everyone who has ever read even the fucking Eldar entries in the main rulebooks should know this pretty basic amount of background.
>>46435145
The eldar like the orks were created to be warslaves and fight the necrontyr.
I like to think that the orks were siege and mass warfare and the elder were mobile and special ops, that bits just headcannon tho.
The point was they have nothing on the old ones, hell who do you think built the webway.
>>46442412
He's getting desperate boys...
>>46442551
The greatest examples of eldar tech are the Webway which they inherited from the old ones
And the blackstone fortresses which they say their gods made.
They stayed in their webway all the time because it was the in thing to be, while humanity expanded into realspace with their blackhole ships and murder bots.
>>46442320
The fluff that refers to the Eldar as wholly unchallenged specifically mentions the time prior to man's emergence. Even after Humanity comes along, the Galaxy is still fuck-huge; plenty of space for everyone. There is no good reason for the Eldar and humanity to fight. Humans would just settle the 99% of the galaxy outside of the Eldar Empire's core territory (now the Eye of Terror).
>>46442353
I can pour water into a glass, but that doesn't mean I have mystical water bending powers or give me deep understanding into the nature of water.
Pylons and null field matrices do not counter the warp like a psyker or wards would. They act like gellar fields, strengthening reality and making it harder for psychic energy to come through, thus calming the warp (since less emotions flowing into it) and making it harder to use psychic powers (harder to draw on the warp). Similar technology is used by the Inquisition to protect caches of questionable materials by placing gellar fields in real space around them. Double reality is stronger than single reality.
Labyrinths are pocket dimensions with no connection to the warp. So a daemon trapped there cannot escape into the warp because there is no warp in there. Actually getting a daemon trapped in one is a more daunting task.
In the end, it's no more mystical or anti-warp than me stabbing a daemon with a knife and banishing it back into the warp.
>>46442432
>Your claim that the daemons power the generator is bullshit.
Lies see (>>46442353).
"The power of the Daemon is then contained by its own essence".
>Second, do provide evidence that Necrons have captured daemons with these, since it has taken the GK massive campaigns to bind daemons into them, and even they have been lesser daemons.
Disingenuous demand on your part because we both know that there is no detailed daemon vs Necron lore yet.
But the fact the Grey Knights managed to captured a warp daemon with it proves the point that warp energy can be contained via real space tech.
>With the ability to devour souls.
Proving that physical beings or technology can affect the warp.
Utterly blasting your point.
>But Necrons and C'tan can?
Never said that Necrons and C'tan were psykers. The fuck are you on?
>Does the same side effect allow the C'tan to consume souls?
No Slaanesh does not suck on the souls of the C'tan. I don't C'tan have those!
>>46442186
It took millennia for the Eldar to become that corrupt. It took a few years for half of humanity's special forces to turn full traitor and pledge to destroy their own race. Humans are defective in W40k, Eldar aren't perfect but they are superior to every other species. That's in the official lore. Humans took over while the Necrons were napping and the Eldar had a hang over, humans think they're tough beating on some mentally retarded orks lel.
>>46442562
>I like to think that the orks were siege and mass warfare and the elder were mobile and special ops, that bits just headcannon tho.
Which would make good sense. But just imagine the Old Ones told them at some point that they need to work together, plan together and fight together!
>>46442586
Where are you getting this idea that the Eldar were primarily in only the webway from?
>>46442521
>Nope. They were created by the Old Ones, but not to fight the Necrons, this is covered in Libre Chaotica.
The Liber Chaotica does not say why the Eldar were created. It just says that Old masters suddenly arrived and told the Eldar to create war constructs for them.
The Oldcron codex says that the Eldar and many pychic races were said to have first appeared when the Old Ones started to fight seriously against the Necrons and C'tan.
>>46442652
His ass to save his face.
>>46442614
>"The power of the Daemon is then contained by its own essence".
Do note that it does not read "use the warp energy from their essences to power the zero point generator." But hey, what do I know, I'm the liar here.
>Disingenuous demand on your part
Hey, if you're going to claim it, you better have some evidence to back it up.
>Proving that physical beings or technology can affect the warp.
Or proving that C'tan are not all we're led to believe. But hey, keep telling us how Necrons are totes warp-tech with no warp connection while DE are totally unable to have any warp-tech because no warp connection.
>>46442425
>They no longer feared the Necrons as the ages went by, that was how much arrogant they were becoming.
The pic you offered explicitly says they were "distracted by their own plights". "Plights" implies bad things going on.
>>46442616
The only difference is, the eldar corrupted the entire realm of souls with them. Humans created a new god directly opposed to the gods that the eldar directly empowered, and humanity has at least as many super soldiers that are directly opposed to said chaos gods.
>>46442652
because it was the backbone of their empire. Because the eldar don't have a FTL system of travel that doesn't use the webway?
>>46436165
Didn't that ship refuse to recognise the imperials as human?
>>46434453
IIRC, DAoT humans were initally kind of chill against xenos, but after Orks, Eldar screwing them over seemingly without a reason and all the other kinds of xenos that love to eat human for breakfast they went full xenophobic genocideal.
>>46442534
>because the old ones made it as a quick way of transportation.
And they taught how to do this to the Eldar.
>>46442600
Bla bla bla
You went way off track and delivered a pre-prepared speech. Did or did not real space science influence warp energy (drinking it/harnessing it? It did.
Of course it won't be as good as actual sorcery but that's not the point being argued here!
>>46442731
Again its not eldar technology in the slightest. They inherited it off the old ones and used it to jumpstart their empire when the necrons were gone underground and the dinosaurs were just extinct.
>>46442714
>Because the eldar don't have a FTL system of travel that doesn't use the webway?
Nigga...
>>46442616
chaos gods born out of human corruption =0
number of empires destroyed because humans were to busy having an orgy =0
number of galaxy wide goatse's created because of how corrupt humans are = 0
>>46442773
well, do they?
>>46442793
Yup.
>>46442763
>Again its not eldar technology in the slightest
>Just inherited
>"TECHNOLOGIES ONCE TAUGHT TO THE ELDAR"
It's literally there staring you in the face. They were taught it. Not given.
