How is it that one of the most allured to military organizations in all of modern fiction is primarily known for incompetence.
And not just misfortune; mismanagement, self indulgence, trigger happiness, corporate pawns, just every trope of military failure shows up in the original work they were created for.
How is this one of the if not THE most badass space soldier outfit of renown?40k need not apply, too hilarious
>>46307357
Mainly because they were written that way. If you look through the Colonial Marines training manual, all the fluff has a very Vietnam feel to it. A lot of it is fighting for corporate masters and wiping out enemy troops and then covering it up.
The movie is fucking awesome by the Colonial Marines themselves are corporate sellouts.
>>46307400
Oh, I don't want to change them. I luv me sum Vasquez banter after cryo sleep.
I just find it peculiar that they are the greatest and also the worst, and known for both, famously.
>>46307357
ANOTHER GLORIOUS DAY IN THE CORPS!
>>46307357
Eh, I didn't see them as particularly incompetent. They're arrogant and over-confident because they've seen situations like this before, but they didn't account for the xenomorph being intelligent. That, and nepotism in the higher ranks means they've got a shitty raw Commander, plus the rules of engagement mean they're literally not supposed to fire their weapons.
Basically, I see the grunts as being decent at their jobs, if arrogant, while the higher command structure has serious problems that ultimately screws them over.
>Objective eliminated
>>46308183
This.
USCM are pretty badass when the chips are down, even Hudson got his ass together and went out a hero like everyone else. It's not their fault they went in unprepared and saddled with a greenie like Gorman for a CO.
>>46308738
>>46308183
That's the rosy tinge of nostalgia. Higgs was the only halfway competent of the bunch. They were prone to panic and sustained bad morale. They couldn't follow a sentence longer than their clits. And if there had been no aliums but bunnyrabbits they would still have taken out the reactor coolant system 2 minutes into the mission. All with the CO away on patchy coms and an obviously veteran Sgt to handhold them through a few dark corridors. Ooh Rah!
>>46308183
Aliens also had a fairly strong Vietnam theme running through it. Ripley's PTSD, overconfident conventional forces, a hostile, obfuscating environment, being cut off from their own world, betrayed by their leaders, unable to properly fight, emphasis on getting out alive rather than completing the mission, Hudson talking about how many days he has left, disconnects between the officers and the men.
>Nepotism
To be fair, they only sent a squad or two, on what they presented as being a minor, easy operation. Just the thing to wet the beak of a raw low level officer. Plus they were probably meant to fail anyway, so sending someone competent wasn't a smart move.
Im going to have to disagree with most people in this thread. The Colonial Marine where based on the US marines coming out of the 80s. Which was a dark fucking time for the service. Drug use and abuse was rampant, officers coulnd't go into barracks without armed escorts for fear of being disappeared. Theft pf equipment and desertion was high. The whole armed force felt betrayed coming out of Vietnam, becaise they one the battles but wheren't allowed to won the war. It was a messed up time and that is reflected in the movie.
The marines themselves are a fairly decent spread of what one would expect out of a modern military. Competant NCOs a few decent enlisted who will probably stay to become NCOs. None of them are ungodly supersoldiers because such a thing doesn't exist. This are not elite forces. They are just grunts. Most will finish ther tour and go do something else with there lives. They are all people first and sokiders second, which is a refreshing xhange from the usual super space marine trope we get with modern sci fi forces.
As for the officer, the useless LT is a trope as old as the Officer/NCO system. The Sgt should have been advising him more and using the op to help train a green officer.
The ROE issue makes sense for a technical point of view, but for the guys on the ground it sucks. Once agin this is not just a vietnam thing. Happens today in our current wars and it'll happen again in whatever war we fight next.
Overall, you could have taken the platoon and slotted it into a late 80s military unit and it would only have stood out by how cliched it was.
>>46307357
Because they're the most common of sci-fi military organisations, due to american cultural hegemony.
In a setting where the protagonists are military, there no need to give it a particular name, because it will be developed alonside the characters.
If the protagonists are civilian, the army will get less focus (if it's there), so an already existing organization helps characterising it (and marines are the best for it because RL US marines + lots of space marines in other settings). And not-protagonists have higher failure rates, since the "cavalry coming to save the day" is an old wild west trope that isn't really used anymore.
The french comic Aquablue has space french foreign legion for the same reason, complete with kepis, and I remember space spetznaz in some bit of russian fiction.
I suspect the polish have space winged hussars.
>>46307357
>organization primarily known for incompetence
Protip: The soldiers were fictional - the writers were real - and they screwed the pooch with the scene where Apone confiscated magazines. The butterbar had ALREADY ordered the sergeant to string his troops out single-file in enemy territory until they were out of comms range, and any sergeant would have known that they would ALL DIE ON CONTACT WITH AN ENEMY UNAFRAID OF SAF AND SEISMIC SURVEY CHARGES. Any sergeant would also have taken steps to preserve his platoon in such a situation. Yes, there would have been a little discussion with the ell tee regarding procedure once everyone was safely back at FB Luggage Car, but nooo. The lazy writers used the ticking bomb cliche to move their stalled plot forward, and besides, everyone knows how stupid and trigger-happy Marines are, so ...
ROCK N ROLL!!!
>>46307357
-Corrupt and incompetent leadership:
In short, USCM leadership either doesn't care, doesn't know any better, or are in a Mega-Corp's pocket.
-Poor morale and espirit de corps:
Not only do most Marine units operate independently and far away from headquarters, they are so small and sequestered there's little reason to keep up discipline other than to keep your butter-bar Lieutenant off your ass, and even then there's only so much he can do.
Furthermore, everybody knows the Colonial Marines are corporate sell-outs, even the fucking Marines themselves. Nobody joins the Colonial Marines because they want to serve the country, or want to be part of the Glorious Colonial Marine Corps. They're there for a paycheck at best, at worst because they just wanted to see combat and blow shit/people up.
Take, for example, this version of the Marine Corps Hymn (from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual)
>From the balls of Hancock's Juniors,
>To the shores of Misery;
>We will curse our country's leaders,
>'Cross the stars, on land and sea;
>First to fight the distant corporate wars;
>Spill our blood for a sheaf of green;
>We will do or die, we ask not why;
>'Cus we're Colonial Marines
That's not something you see in an organization that takes pride in its honor or upstanding tradition of service and discipline.
The Colonial Marines are well-equipped, well-trained, and competent. However, they have poor morale, terrible leadership, and shaky discipline.
>>46313184
Also, since we're talking about these guys, I'm making a homebrew system and planning to run a campaign set in the Aliens 'verse, with the players taking on the role of a rookie squad of Colonial Marines.
Anybody have any ideas/suggestions for missions, plot hooks, things that could go wrong?
I've read the Technical Manual, and I'd like for the players to have to deal with increasingly gray and corrupt missions before ultimately being given the option to desert and go AWOL.
>>46313373
Isolation is full of ideas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp6TINbkAE0
>>46313373
http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-Campaign.html
>>46315385
Try
http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-Campaign-USSDeterrent.html
>>46315385
>>46315467
Hot damn will this come in handy. Thanks!
I have a set accurate reconstruction of the Nostromo interior.
>>46315775
>>46315799
>>46315823
>>46315845
>>46315875
Also Hadley's Hope
>>46316033
>>46316060
>>46316107
>>46316130
And if you're feeling inspired...
Never forget
CREW: EXPENDABLE
>>46307357
>How is it that one of the most allured to military organizations in all of modern fiction is primarily known for incompetence...mismanagement, self indulgence, trigger happiness, corporate pawns, just every trope of military failure
Because the actual military organization is primarily known for incompetence, mismanagement, self indulgence, trigger happiness, corporate pawns, just every trope of military failure?
Citation: every time the US military in general and the marines specifically have been deployed in the last 60 years.
>>46313373
So, for further background this is gonna be my first time DMing (and the first time for all of the players as well). I'm wondering if I should have all players consist of members of the infantry squad, or if I should allow players to take on other roles such as gunship pilots, vehicle crews, ship crews, etc.
On the one hand, this would allow a good amount of variety and give players more freedom, and also open up a lot of opportunities for player interaction to go beyond 'working together as a fireteam to accomplish objectives on the ground'.
On the other hand, I've seen plenty of warnings about 'never splitting the party' and this is doing literally just that. I'm also concerned about keeping people engaged. What can the Marines do while the ship engages pirate vessels, or their gunship pilot evades enemy AA to place them at a safe LZ? What can the gunship pilot do while waiting for the Marine team to poke through that spooky abandoned colony?
>>46318096
Keep it simple.
bump-o
>>46318212
This
This thread seems as good a place as any to post this...
>>46322208
Neat. Thanks.
What is USCM?
>>46327472
United States Colonial Marines; in short, the soldiers from the movie Aliens and its associated expanded universe.
BAMP
>>46317258
Here's your (you)
>>46333186
I don't get it...
>In the pipe - five by five
>>46307621
They're Vietnam era United States. They're the best because they kick ass the hardest but also the worst because they're corrupt and do shit things. It's pretty straight forward OP
>>46339535
That's pretty schizo.
>>46335540
Here's your reply.
>>46342653
To what?
>>46344312
He's implying that your post was made specifically to stir shit and get attention, and he's pretending to give you the attention he thinks you want in the most can't-be-arsed way possible.
>>46344519
>>46342653
samefag
>>46338360
>In the pipe - five by five
Alright ... we got seven canisters of CN-20. I say we roll them in here and nerve-gas this whole fucking thread!
>>46348341
>survives vacuum of space
>survives molten lead
>has concentrated acid for blood
>doesn't afraid of predators
Bring it, dude.
Has the Pentagon managed to worm its way into Hollywood to such a degree nowadays that people can't process it when a movie doesn't portray the squad of cannon fodder test subjects as God's chosen asskickers?
>>46349670
apparently
