Team A: Cuchulainn, Heracles and Siegfried (all from original sagas)
Team B: Gandalf(Book), Dumbledore(book) and Merlin (from the Mists of Avalon Book)
team C: A squad of higly trained navy seal with standart gear but no comm equipament and no support.
Arena: Ruins of a castle in an island. Teams cannot cross the lake around it but can use the water and it's depths. Team start in opposite corners of the island with language in common and already briefed on situation. Center of castle there is a stash of 3 healing potions that heal anyone that drink it to a fully healthy, complete state, but won't cure death. (restore cut limbs, fatigue, hunger, thirst, etc).
If battle isn't over in 24 hours, everyone will automatically die.
Who wins?
And show your work.
>>46095179
Gandalf>Siegfried>Seals>Gandalf
MZBradley Merlin is ass, Dumbledore is worth less than a Seal.
I'm going to say Team A, because while Cuchulainn and Heracles are not as immortal, they are still just as relevant. Did I mention Cuchulainn is a wizard?
>>46095179
How the hell is she holding that bow up?
>>46095179
>one of these is a literal angel of immense power
>the rest are not
Ya.
>>46096806
>two of these are literal demi-gods of immense power
>the rest are not
Ya
>>46096806
>immense power
>>46097151
>one of these is a literal god of immense power
>the rest are not
>>46096744
It is suspended between her feet. One foot is holding the string between two toes, and the other is pushing away at the bow.
>>46095179
>no comm equipment and no support
Way to miss the point of modern-day SOF.
Dumbass.
>>46095179
Cuculain and Heracles Warp Spasm and Berserk respectively. From there it's a question of if Gandalf and Merlin can stop the entire arena being thrown at them as the two demigods make a new mountain range or two. The seals are fucked, among other things the Nemean Hide would lolnope guns.
>>46098159
"The first warp-spasm seized Cúchulainn, and made him into a monstrous thing, hideous and shapeless, unheard of. His shanks and his joints, every knuckle and angle and organ from head to foot, shook like a tree in the flood or a reed in the stream. His body made a furious twist inside his skin, so that his feet and shins switched to the rear and his heels and calves switched to the front... On his head the temple-sinews stretched to the nape of his neck, each mighty, immense, measureless knob as big as the head of a month-old child... he sucked one eye so deep into his head that a wild crane couldn't probe it onto his cheek out of the depths of his skull; the other eye fell out along his cheek. His mouth weirdly distorted: his cheek peeled back from his jaws until the gullet appeared, his lungs and his liver flapped in his mouth and throat, his lower jaw struck the upper a lion-killing blow, and fiery flakes large as a ram's fleece reached his mouth from his throat... The hair of his head twisted like the tangle of a red thornbush stuck in a gap; if a royal apple tree with all its kingly fruit were shaken above him, scarce an apple would reach the ground but each would be spiked on a bristle of his hair as it stood up on his scalp with rage" - the slaying of the boy troop of Emain Macha. Kinsella's translation
>>46095179
tossup between A and B
Merlin and Gandalf are ridiculously powerful, without a doubt. No idea on Dumbledore's power levels. Team A's loaded with some ridiculous powerhouses though.
As for Team C, they're not gonna fare well. They're not shit, they're just playing out of their league.
>>46098159
Gandalf won a match with the With King of angmar which was, by it's own right, a very powerful lich whol controlled a whole frozen wasteland. He didnt killed it but forced it to retreat. Cuchulainn and Heracles were demigods but their dids are mostly physical, unaid by magic and they were wounded or killed by mundane means at some point.
>>46099816
Gandalf is less powerful than the other two wizards but in his universe it's easier to 'spam' magic that has smaller effects but still powerful, with virtually no restriction. Floating doors, causing excruciating pain, taking the mind of others, all can be done with visual range and like...2 seconds to utter the words. Merlin can create huge storms and change the course of battles and Gandalf is a Magus (Yes, he is a fine ass swordsman as well as a magician). Team B is not bad at all.
>>46099818
Not precisely correct: Cúchulainn was basically an IRL minmaxer who fell foul of two conflicting magical obligations which he had entered into to gain superhuman might; the penalty for breaking a geas is that one is doomed to die.
Heracles immolated himself after being crippled with pain by a gift of a poisonous cloak, as he burned alive he achieved deific apotheosis, and became a god, who's cult flourished even in Roman times.
I think people are missing important points here and wasting the potential of the thread. I'm not gonna give an answer but I'll make an argument in favor of why everyteam has a chance:
Team A: Cuchulainn and Hercules/Heracles are famous for their strength but in no way in their legends they are impervious to damage. Cuchulainn was wounded in a battle agaisnt a mortal army. Sure he took most of the army off, but let's face it. Some soldier wounded him by the strength of his own arm, even if he got to hit him only due to exhaustion, he still hit him. Hercules has a bunch of good gear and a lot of strength, but I don't recall anything about him being impervious to arrows, swords or claws of beasts. I might be wrong here but I think in both cases we are seeing something like the Hulk without ridiculous damage resistance. Siegfried, as far as I know, was the immortal one, but no exceptional strength, only exceptional skill. He had a weak spot though.
So team A is brute force, with one tank and two damage dealers, mostly melee although Hercules could use a bow rather well, he was not famed for it.
Team B brings less physical prowess but a lot of inteligence to the table. Team B is the one who can tatically win this if anyone can. They can take directly any of the other teams, but they can certainly pick their moment to fight. Gandalf is not bad at all in melee combat, he fought a demon by himself, and he also happen to be a skilled swordsman in field battle, and he has magic, and although we don't know the limits of it, safe to say he can hide people from the others sight, I believe he did so to hide the Fellowship from wolves when they were trying the mountain pass, in the book, plus the ability to 'know' stuff. Team B is likely the only one going into battle aware of who they are fighting, I'd reckon. Never read mist from Avalon, but merlin from the classic saga is both wise and able to change the tide of battles by brewing potions/casting spells to encourage an army.
>>46100145
And Dumbledore, although the less classical member of this company can, as said before, use lesser magic way more directly and often then other wizards. Talk about exploding doors, disarming from a distance, petrifying, causing burst of uncontrollable will to dance. All those seem pretty darn problematic in combat. He is weak though, physically poorly prepared and the price for having a magic spammer on board would be Team B having to babysit him. Plus, I believe, Dumbledore's the only one who need visual contact to hit with his magic.
Team C:
The underdog coming into this fight without anyone believing their chances, are actually packing flashbangs, High Explosive grenades, Assault Carbines, pistols, likely a couple explosives, silencers, night vision. They lack communication, which force them to stick together and act as a squad, but if they have visual range to coordinate, they could take the wizards down easily by getting the drop on them, which would be hard providing they are hella smart, but possible. And likely concentrated fire in anyone on Team A could be lethal. Perhaps Siegfried could survive two magazines of carbine fire if none hit his vital spot, but Cuchulainn and Heracles are just a missed dodge/parry away from getting wounded and from there on, their chances are greatly reduced. I'd say the seals would need to play smart and pick their prey like the wizards, but without the burden of having to babyseat their team and having the physical conditioning of the warriors. So basically what they lack in supernatual abilities, they make it with fitness, training and modern gear.
>>46100145
>mostly melee although Hercules could use a bow rather well, he was not famed for it.
He actually was. One of the variations of his Hydra-slaying feat was him shooting down all 100 heads at the same time with 100 arrows. He then went on to slay countless beasts and enemies by using arrows dipped in the hydra's poisonous blood.
No Siegfried love yet?
Is Tarnhelm a Wagnerian invention or a mythological convention?
Depending on if it counts, Siggy would be hyper-mobile, Tarnhelm's abilities being teleportation and shapeshifting, he could quite likely observe team C without detection in animal form, team B being wizards would pose a significant threat, but depending on the ability of Siggy's teleportation, he could just zip in and whip ol' Dumbledore's head off like a Turnip.
I'm not so up on MOA Merlin, but Gandalf is a divine being in mortal guise, so his senses are probably preternatural to a degree.
He's however at a distinct disadvantage compared to his team A bros by being "conventionally mortal" in a way that neither Cúchulainn not Herc really are.
is Heracles allowed to incarnate as an Olympian God? or is he gonna have to tone it down for these old farts and men who shout Hoo-Ah?
>>46100145
>but I don't recall anything about him being impervious to arrows, swords or claws of beasts
Except, y'know, the lion cloak that specifically did that.
All in all, Hercules wins. This is the man who literally wrestled Death in order to retrieve a soul, had beat Death so badly that when Hercules was in agonizing pain from putting on a poison-laced shirt, Death was too scared to go near him to take him to the after life.
So, Hercule's friends built a funeral pyre, and Hercules rode the smoke all the way to Olympus, where he was instated as a god and Hera herself offered him her own daughter as his wife.
Now Gandalf is pretty strong, but not even he, Merlin, and Dumbledore combined could stop Hercules if Hercules was inclined to murder them. They might be able to outsmart him for a time, using illusions and the like because Hercules's main flaw was his straightforwardness and often blunt stupidity, but we're talking about a guy who could run around the island, smashing two boulders together and creating sonic claps that destroy everything around him except himself. He was stupid in all matters except when it came to coming up with clever ways of abusing his strength.
We're talking about a guy who carried the entire sky before he even was a god, beat up Cerberus with his bare hands, and killed a long list of "unkillable" beasts and men.
And Dumbledore couldn't even try to Aloha Kedavra or whatever him, because Death is too scared to try and take Hercules down.
>>46099858
Sauron with the Ring, who is far more powerful than Gandalf (OP didn't specify if we're talking about the Grey or the White, but it doesn't matter, because Gandalf the White admitted that he was weaker even than Sauron without the Ring) was killed by two warriors, one elven and the other human (Numenorean). Not exactly ordinary humans, of course, but both a long way beneath Hercules. We can assume if Sauron was killed by two guys with swords that Gandalf would suffer a similar fate if Hercules dropped a mountain on him.
>>46100145
>although Hercules could use a bow rather well, he was not famed for it.
That's objectively false. Hercules was considered one of the greatest archers of all time, and assuredly the deadliest, especially once he had hydra-blood-tipped arrows.
He was so famous for his archery, that his bow was considered a legendary artifact that was prophesied to be one of the instruments that would turn the tide of the Trojan War, and there was a brief adventure where Odysseus went to retrieve it.
>>46100464
To be fair, Thanatos was never shown to be a particularly strong combatant in Greek myth. He had the superhuman strength of a God, yes, but his role is not that of a fighter, but a carrier. I don't think he ever actually won in any direct physical confrontation.
>>46095179
Dumbledore can cast a vortex of fire and sustain it as long as Merlin and Gandalf can keep his stamina up.
The only one who would survive this is Siegfried. He could win by himself so long as the others don't know who he is or don't know about his saga.
>>46100615
Actually, Thanatos only ever lost to Heracles. He otherwise had a perfect fighting record. When Death came for you, you went with him.
That is, when it comes to fighting. It's actually possible to outwit him, like Sisyphus did twice. And, Thanatos wasn't an Olympian, so he was still outranked by Hermes, who would take special people to the afterlife, like how he took Sisyphus after Thanatos failed twice.
Portraying Dumbledore as just spamming lowlevel magic missiles and stuff is selling him short rather drastically:
He was (in the books) able to cast a camoflage spell so powerful he was perfectly invisible - combine that with his power to teleport himself AND anyone in direct contact, the wizard team is hard to catch and has amazing potential for ambushing.
It would however not be in character for him to go around shooting killing curses at people - or using any of the forbidden spells (so no torture or mindcontrol either) but even so, his trademark are creative use of all kinds of magic and out of the box thinking. Especially transformation spells.
>>46100530
Not Killed...Taken in a moment of hubris and separated from the source of his power. Then he proceeded to spent 5000 thousand years ruling a chunk of middle earth and the strongest army in the land without being in his strongest form. Numerian are effective ubermein and so are high elves. Dont dont play the big horny guy. He's worth more than that.
>>46099858
eah, I still remember in the Hobbit how he fucking destroyed the Great Goblin
You mentioned Gandalf twice, but not Dumbledore. I assume the first was him?
And I definitely wasn't denying B was powerful, I just can't honestly decide between A and B
>>46101299
You know who else are effectively the pinnacle of Ubermen? Heracles, Cuculain, and Siegfried.
>>46099727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnli_cr2tI8
>>46096744
>>46097321
in other words, pure tension. she lets that arrow fly and the bow falls harmlessly on her head.
now if she were to be doing this without shoes...
well, that's on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9mQ4DP5UNg
Seals win. They remain hidden until super powered people kill each other. Attack the survivors with superior firepower, might fury and explosives.
>>46100804
And Merlin's trademark spell is the fireball.
Team Mage has the best mobility, the best support and the best ranged power, if they let the literally invulnerable guy deal with bullet hell team before facing megamuscle team, they win.
>>46095179
how is this even an argument, Dumbleyung can wordlessly teleporting around, and instant kill or paralyse people. he can also heal injury or summon food
>>46102864
With AoE damge like that they should be in a pretty good position indeed against even demigod muscle.
I'm not convinced heracles would be protected by his cape from stuff like magic or even just fire in general and if Siegfried only gets burned on his weakspot, that makes it just way easier to find
And that's not even talking about nonlethal measures by witch the magic users could just magic their opponents out of the fight
>>46103544
According to Roman legend, Hercules created the gap pictured here >>46100530 that connects the Med to the Atlantic. If he just punched the ground it would probably kill anything in the nearby area.
>>46102983
He needs to know where people are, there is no spell for scrying that doesnt require instruments. Teleportation in Harry Potter is real loud, with a gun like bang, which means wordlessly doesnt mean stealthy. Also, teleportation in Harry report requires seconds of focus, which means no instant blinking and casting spells.
>>46106370
read the fight between voldy and dumbledore at the ministry of magic, and tell me again how you can't teleport around casting spells like a mad dog
>>46107300
He also wouldn't use the insta kill spell and the paralysis spell might not work on a literal diety
Face it, dumbledore is literally the weakest one in this fight
>>46095179
Siegfried is literally invulnerable in all places on his body except the shape of a maple leaf on his back, hercules has the strength the somehow reroute a river by hand, and Cuchulhain can kill hosts of men with a stupid amount of ease even before the riarstrid.
Heroes sweep.
>>46100663
>He could win by himself
He'd just get petrified.
>>46107361
>He also wouldn't use the insta kill spell and the paralysis spell might not work on a literal diety
>one part he's not even trying
>one part baseless assumption
>>46107856
AK requires you to hate someone to death, we don't know if Dumbles can do that.
>>46096744
>>46097321
>>46101818
The real world performers this is based on just hold it with their toes.
>>46100264
>Team C
Still the underdogs by far, but you're forgetting that they're Americans who have most likely read about most if not all of the other people on this list. They're the only people who would have a clue what they're up against.
>>46109590
>Americans
>reading
Dumbledore would probably be the one with the most knowledge of classical mythology imo.
Herakles gives Siegfried the lion's skin.
Absolutely invulnerable viking owns team gunz and probably even Merlin by himself.
But Dumbledore could paralize him, and if Gandalf doesn't need to act human, team wizzerds has the most OP unit.
>>46109590
Please. Their knowledge would probably amount to 'Hercules? That dude The Rock played in that movie?'.
>>46095179
>standart
I want JF's and clapistanis to fuck off.
>>46111343
They are SEALs not Marines.
Give them some credit at least.
so nobody is betting on the modern soldiers?
>>46112476
Grenade spam can take care of both teams if they dont realise what is happening
>>46100320
>Is Tarnhelm a Wagnerian invention or a mythological convention?
A bit of both. In the original saga, it conveyed invisibility and super-strength; Wagner changed the super-strength to shapeshifting. (Also, in the original saga it was a cloak, the tarnkappe, rather than a helm.)
>>46112867
Oh, and the teleportation is also a Wagnerian addition.
So Siegfried's tarnkappe gives invisibility and super-strength, no teleportation or shapeshifting.
>>46100804
Honestly, who needs forbidden curses when you have Petrificus Totalus? No-save Hold Person at will is going to win fights quite handily. The other teams would have zero chance against Team B in a straight fight; they'd need to try to snipe or ambush to take Dumbledore out before he has a chance to paralyze them all.
Which could possibly be doable by either of the other teams (Siegfried has invisibility with the tarnkappe, Hercules is a hell of an archer, and the SEALs could try sniping), but it would be a lot easier said than done against the cleverness and protective magic the wizard team can muster to prevent it.
If Dumbledore is willing to win, it's straight up victory for him and him alone. There are numerous charms in Harry Potter to make yourself invisible and instantly confuse, disable, or kill opponents. Teleportation is trivial. Area-of-effect spells that cause nonmagical foes to become lost or disoriented beyond function.
Heracles and Siegfried didn't practice magic. Cuchulainn did, so he's literally the only threat there, and after he goes warp spasm I doubt Dumbledore would consider him a human and just death laser him.
>>46109590
Depends on how much detail you assume the briefing all teams are given entails.
Could be as simple as the rules of engagement, with no info about the other teams besides the fact that they exist. Could be just listing the names as in the OP. Or it could be detailed rundowns of the other teams' capabilities.
One interesting way to think about this would be to assume the detail of the briefings most appropriate to the typical MO of the teams. Team C would have highly detailed dossiers on all of the other team members, because intel is a huge part of modern specops. Team B would be pretty well-informed as well, given their wise and scholarly bent. Team A...probably not so much, though I'm not so familiar with Cu Chulainn's or Siegfried's tales so I might be missing a detail about one or both of those two being inclined toward research and careful preparation.
>>46095179
>Cuchulainn vs anyone
I don't think you get just how bullshit Cuchulainn is.
>>46113644
In this thread we had the following answers:
>Dumbledore could win this all alone
>Hercules could win this all alone
>Gandalf could win this all alone
And now
>Cuchulainn could win this all alone
Seem pretty balanced to me.
>>46112452
If the SEALs won they'd write a book about it
>>46099818
>CuChulainn is a physical powerhouse
>Not spaming runic stones
>Not sniping a bitch from from 7 leagues with Gae Bulg
>Not being the faggot he is and just sitting in Giant's Dance where he is unkillable.
>>46113076
Thing is the charms work only on muggles, leaving supernatural creatures unaffected. Not sure if Siegfried manages to squeeze in from his stuff but Heracles is half God, which pretty much means he'll laugh off such effects.
>>46096806
>>46097151
>>46097281
One killing curse will bring it down.
>>46115109
Ah yes, release Heracles from his mortal coil, see how that turns out for you. Also as mentioned it's questionable Dumbledore has the appropriate mindset to cast one.
>>46107886
You forget that even after being poisoned with a horrible toxin devised by the most evil wizard of all time, Dumbledore was still strong enough to summon a firestorm that murdered almost 100 Inferni which are the re-animated corpses of the dead given massive protection against magic and physical harm.
The killing curse is a single target spell that can be blocked or dodged. It is nothing compared to unleashing fire that can burn magically fortified soaking wet flesh to ash in mere moments. That isn't even the strongest fire based spell in Dumbledore's arsenal. He is very likely quite capable of using Fiend Fire which is only used in one scene in one book by one of Malfoy's bumbling goons. It is literal hellfire summoned up with the faces of demons and monsters bursting from it, possibly fueled by the souls of the damned. It is nigh uncontrollable but between Dumbledore's skills and the abilities of the other wizards it doesn't matter if he has 3 curses he wont use.
There are more ways to kill with magic than just the killing curse.
Hell, just use some basic telekinesis spell to trip Hercules and the Irishman and knock their heads on rocks and die. If Hercules can only be destroyed by immolation a quick Wingardium Leviosa or Petrificus Totalis to hold him in place followed by one of the three using their powers over fire to kill him. As for Siegfried, a quick Expelliarmus would leave him with no weapons within reach then petrify him and have Gandalf stab him with his sword until he finds a spot that turns him off.
The seals will probably be killed in a firestorm after being blinded by Gandalfs glowstick.
>>46096744
New item...ShoeBow of course...hard to walk in, great to fight in....ShoeBow! Order now while supplies last.
