Underrated Fight Edition
Discuss the viability of Warcraft as a tabletop RPG setting
Last thread: >>46060847
BY FIRE BE FIRST!
Second for best troll.
What would you fa/tg/uys change about WoW lore?
Third for universal cumdum-, revered and useful allies of the alliance.
>>46070711
Dark Irons never reconciled with the Council of Three Hammers in Cata and threw their lot in with the Horde to spite the arrogant Bronzebeards.
Boom. Horde Dorfs.
Alliance could have High Elf loyalists who were on Outland with Turalyon's expedition and didn't follow Edgy'Thas to becoming Blood Elves.
There were a few hanging around Alliance settlements in Burning Crusade, including Turalyon's half-elf kid.
But of course, Turalyon himself and his elf waifu Alleria have been AWOL since WC2's expansion.
>>46070714
What happens when Humans impregnate Nelves?
>>46070714
That's Ysera. She's the green Dragon Aspect, not a night elf.She also dies in Legion, apparently.
>>46070711
Remove the whole "giggly bimbo" from NE.
Make Tauren and Night Elves open allies.
Give nagas a presence.
>>46070780
I wonder how it would have gone if rather than hard and fast 'X is allied with every group in Y' they'd have done it a bit more racially. As Night Elves and Tauren have a lot of common ground but Night Elves and Gnomes? I don't see it so much.
But then, I think I'm feeling like something like BnS's PvP system would have been cool. You have one faction you WILL be part of (Horde or Alliance in this case) but you can also be set up for PvP with other groups and you get to pick which one you run with.
>>46070711
Remove all of it. Go back to Warcraft 2.
>>46070746More submissive turbosloot daughters.
Whatever happened to Elven firearms from WC2? The WC2 Elves had cannons.
>>46070673
>Warcraft
> lore
>>46070820
That was the dorfs who made the cannon that were mounted on the Elven destroyers.
>>46070820
Elves can still use guns in WoW if they feel like it, but generally cannons =/= handguns.
>>46070711
Pauldrons are considered evil by all cultures.
>>46070851
Really? Has it been changed to that now?
>>46070780
Why?
I understand Night Elves allying with Tauren, but Tauren have a few reasons to distrust night elves
>>46070711
Pretty much everything about Cataclysm ,mostly making the Horde lose ground on all fronts rather than gaining it
The Horde just isn't interesting if it's winning, and is even less interesting if it's the aggressive side in a conflict
>>46070711
Nothing. It's too far gone to salvageable. In the hugely unlikely event of an new RTS game in the series I'd really hope they'd just spin WoW into its own continuity and pick up after where TFT left off.
>>46071046
And where would you go from there?
>>46071027
Honestly I think of Varian kicked it off it could be interesting. Garrosh utilizes old Horde tactics by just raiding towns so they can survive. I could see Garrosh barely managing to keep the fight equal up until Pandaria where it goes to shit. Alliance navy just outclasses the Horde. Vol'jin is preparing the Darkspear rebellion,all of his supporters are turning against him because they're losing, he begs for Thrall for help but he's staying the fuck out of the war and thus Garrosh becomes desperate enough to use Old God Heart
>>46071092
It makes sense too, Varian in WotLK is pretty much the exact person that Garrosh became in Cataclysm, and by all logic, the Alliance should be much stronger than the Horde by simple value of Ironforge alone
>>46070711
I'd have made it in game that it wasn't straight Horde vs Alliance. Or rather, that there's numerous factions both of player races and non-player races all with different relationships. So the orcs and the trolls are part of the "Horde", and are allied to the tauren, and can go in each others lands. and such. But the tauren are friendly enough with the night elves and vice versa they can go to each others lands (orcs and elves in tauren lands would have neutrality enforced like in the goblin cities) and so on.
Instead of being four alliance races, four horde races, you'd have simply "pick your race". Might make guilds and groups a little harder to deal with, but it'd also have made the intro of new races much easier.
Also, I wish they'd left a lot of Kalimdor and (to a lesser extent) the Eastern Kingdoms unvisitable. That way they would have had space to introduce some new races later on.
>>46071006
"Same" religion, Druidic relations, coexisted for along time.
They are also the only races who want to protect the world over having a pissing contest.
>>46071150
>Coexisted for a long time
No they didn't, that's why the Tauren would be hesitant about openly siding with the night Elves
The Tauren have spent generation upon generation struggling for survival and beset on all sides by centaurs, quillboars and harpies. So much so that by the time Thrall arrives they're pretty much bordering on extinction. They discover that there's a group of people, like-minded to the Tauren, living in the forest, who have been aware of the Tauren for their entire existance... And never did anything to help
I can see quite a bit of vitriol building up over that
>>46071147
Might be a decent idea for it to just mark anyone who starts a fight as an enemy for guards in those sort of places. So you might be in neutral territory but if you start a brawl, you become the enemy for the guards in that area for a while (And likely a drop in faction reputation)
Seriously, make that reputation system DO something.
>>46071150
Plus it deepens the Horde's internal politics, which really wasn't a thing until Cata (where it was stupid). The Tauren are thankful for the Orcs support and camaraderie, but also think the orcs are too aggressive. Some orc clans think the tauren are too passive and don't understand the desperate orcish need for resources to fuel their growth so they can maintain a settled society.
>>46071202
That's what I was thinking. It's possible in vanilla to become exalted with both the goblin factions and the Pirates. Why not have something very difficult like that to allow you to even switch factions?
Hell, say you're a human and you go to the Night Elf lands. The Night elves tolerate you but aren't incredibly friendly. Not many things are available to you in Darnassus and such. You have to earn the trust of the elves to get to use stuff in Darnassus, get merchants to stoip price gouging you, etc.
Maybe I'm looking back at vanilla with rose-tinted glasses, but there was something special about having to struggle for everything. If they'd made it more like that, then being a human exalted with Darnassus should be a fucking achievement. Being a Night Elf who is an honoured guest of Thunder Bluff should be a big deal.
While we're talking about the actual mechanics, it would have been nice if, of the three talent trees, one was unique to your race-class combination. So all Warriors get, say, Arms and Protection, but a Human Warrior gets Knighthood while a Orcish warrior gets Berserking and a Night Elven Warrior gets a more ambush/trap oriented thing.
>>46071092
Or we could avoid Cata and Pandaria all togher
>>46071092
>muh groious alliance navy, never threatened by filthy greenskins.
Yeah, makes sense to have the antagonist be totally weak, ineffectual, and not really a threat to anybody. Unless you're gonna play up the alliance being the violent aggressor and end with the siege of Stormwind instead. Which is also retarded because Varian doesn't have nearly as much control or sway over the other subfactions as Garrosh does over the horde. At least Garrosh winning a series of victories through a ruthlessness which alienates his allies gives the siege some drama because the alliance and Vol'Jin's horde are actually in danger now and people have a reason to care about whats going rather than just waiting for the unstoppable alliance to finish roflstomping Garrosh's horde. Cata is just dumb, trying to "fix" it with copious amounts of ally wankery is just making it worse.
>>46071275
This.
>>46070272
Anduin's pretty homogay for wrathion and is going to be the broodmother of sorts for him.
>legion DKs going world police with the scourge
>One mission is about getting koltiras back from UD
>Rummored 4 horsemen
>Rumored KT and Anub coming back
I hopewe get to kill shitvanas
>>46071633
That would probably be the best ending for her, really. Especially if it was the Ebon Blade and not the Alliance actually carrying it out. It'd make a pretty striking event, actually; especially if they moved Acherus over the ruins for it.
>>46071633
Would Anub even be a bad guy any more with the Lich King dead?
Him and his people fought the Lich King and then were bound to his service unwillingly (He says as much in WC3).
With the Lich King dead him and his people should be free or under the control of the new, non-evil one.
>>46071633
>>46071686
That'd be amazing. But doesn't Kol'tiras just show up at the Acherus all 'yeah remember when I was dragged away to Sylvanas' rape dungeon? That never happened. Forget about it'
>>46071686
>Ma'am you're under arrest for spreading plague and un-sactioned necromancy.
>Lol, what u gonna do? trial me?
>DKs start to laugh and dogpile her
>Scourge absorbs the Forsaken, pulls them up onto flying necropolis and gives lordaeron back to whoever (you have to clean it)
Best ending really.
I was just reading that discussion about an Arthas movie in the last thread. Seems to me that the proper way to end the movie is by having Arthas whisper "Succeeding you." and then it cuts to the credits.
Next movie, which shows his conquest and ruling of Lordaeron, opens up with a shot of the bloodied crown on the floor. A hand grabs it, and Arthas puts it on his head. He orders Falric and Marwyn to continue the slaughter of the city, the camera panning towards them, right past King Terenas' corpse. Then you could pull a James Bond move and have the movie title show up, followed by the music and everything.
Just thought that'd look really nice.
>>46071729
Bolvar needs to subdelegate, canonically he isn't as strong as arthas/ner'zhul (they're inside frostmourne, not the hat anymore), he can barely take control of ALL non-smart undead, he needs people to subdelegate shit to (Ebon Blade, 4 horseman), this is where anub'arak/KT could fit in, mostly anub'arak.
>>46071756
Right. I'd be 100% ok with that for Anub.
I'm just sorta hoping they don't bring him back as a Raid Boss just because he's a recognizable undead figure.
Him and his people were the enemies of the Lich King in life and if the Forsaken get off on that excuse, so should he.
>>46071766
>Help us!
>You killed me 2 times!
>Third's time the charm
it even fits metzen's writtin
>>46070714
I know for a fact that there's a version without clothes.Post it pls
>Alliance will never gain territories
>Sylvanas will be sieging Khaz Modan soon.
>>46071633
I'll subscribe if KT joins the Ebon Blade of becomes Bolvar's vizier. I mean, he was Arthas' second hand, he knowns his shit.
Damn these /tg/ Warcraft threads are comfy as fuck
>>46071978
When they aren't overwhelmed by fanboys bitching at each other.
How come we see a whole bunch of female night elf druids, but the only male night elf priest we see is one protecting Uther's tomb?
>>46071923
Ner'zhul was like a god to Kel'thuzad and his Cult of the Damned, Arthas was 'merely' a vessel, which later gained the upper hand. Bolvar is an undeserving usurper who stole the Helm of Domination (with help from Tirion).
Now that Ner'zhul is gone, I presume he leads the Cult more philosophically, that undeath is its own reward and such, but still somehow continuing the good fight. But Skelly Kelly wil never serve Bolvar.
>>46072044
Tits and ass, son.
>>46072046
Nah, Arthas as a Death Knight was a "friend" for Kel'Thuzad as well. It's just a stroke of luck that his King and God were going to melt into one.
>>46072044
that priest is bullshit anyway, why is he even protecting the tomb?
>>46071734
>hand it over to the Argent Crusade/reformed Silver Hand
>goes full Teutonic Order and becomes a monastic state
>Quel'Thalas just silently goes back into Isolationism mode
>>46072102
The light told him too.
>>46071734
>>DKs start to laugh and dogpile her
The only thing more satisfying would be a combined Ebon Blade/Argent Crusade dogpile. A sexy Ebon Blade/Argent Crusade dogpile if you know what I mean.
>>46072154
Why is a kaldorei priest worshipping the light
>>46072211
He's not a retard like most.
The Church Of The Holy Light Virtues are wrong because it's confirmed that the first human priests were contacted by the Naaru and made up the virtues themself. Better become vindicators.
>>46072256
Humans are better at the Light than goats though.
>>46071978
Tell me about it. It's a great way to pass the time at work.
I'm honestly of the opinion that a /tg/ private RP server would work extremely well.
>>46072256
>Respect, tenacity, compassion
Pretty sure the Naaru would be pretty okay with these virtues. Just because your religion is wrong, doesn't mean it's wrong to follow the good teachings it has to offer.
>>46072303
I've always wondered about MMO RPing and I just couldn't get into it. Maybe I'm not creative enough.
>>46072303
Even a guild on a private server would work fine, which I think was tried before.
>>46072323
It's pretty decent. Been doing it for the past 10 years now.
>>46072336
Having a server where we can choose what idiotic tidbits of lore we can choose to ignore, and being able to actually shape the entire world as we see fit, might be a bit better. But that's just me.
>>46072303
> /tg/ doing any actual roleplaying
No, just no
>>46072382
>implications
>>46072311
But all those smug Draenei fanboys I'll have to deal with now.
>>46072403
well know that the guild/server would be filled with ERPers, mary sues and that guys
>>46072405
>>46072405
Smug draenei wouldnt know about the naaru whispering thing
If they do, remind them that human light champions > draenei light champions
>>46072436
Still won't be as bad as Moon Guard Goldshire, unless you recruit off /d/.
>>46072436
That's why you need competent admins and GMs to keep an eye on them. Warn / kick / ban anyone trying to start drama, have DMs run short events daily, or campaigns over multiple weeks.
The trick is to keep them active so they don't descend into degeneracy.
>>46072348
The problem is that /tg/'s population has enough contradictory opinions that we'd probably end up close to canon because we can't agree on the changes.
>>46072501
What time would this private server take place in anyways?
>>46072509
Troll wars.
>>46072501
Even then, starting close to canon would be a good thing. From that point onwards, we can decide on whether or not we'll allow the players to change things. Taking back Arathi, Forsaken pushing into Wetlands, that kinda shit.
>>46072509
Best start in my opinion is either: After Cataclysm, or just before the Siege of Orgrimmar.
Mostly because going through all of Pandaria is shit.
>>46072523
Please, that's already after much of the stupidity has set in. I'd want to go back to WotLK at least, preferably TBC or Vanilla.
>>46071250
Cool Idea but way to fucking hard to balance and takes up a lot of time. I would rather have more race specific armor sets though
>>46072523
I would say WotLK, but I have a soft spot for Pandaren so I'd be fine with MoP.
>>46072542
>>46072567
WotLK is a good choice, but the fact that it's that far back may keep new players away. They're mostly used to the 'current' lore. Which is a shame, seeing as WotLK was a really good time for RPers.
>>46071034
Back when world bosses were untethered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl0VWJdE01M
>>46072168
>DK+Crusade ends the legion
>Since DKs have to keep on killing or go frenzytard the scourge steals a legion ship and fuck off into the nether, to never be seen again
>>46072663
my boner would get so hard if that happened
>>46070746
The legends speak of a Warcraft RPG book with the answer.
>>46072663
Thus, by creating Warcraft's first spaceborne, skull attired murder machines did the cycle of IP theft continue.
>>46072695
>they appear on SCIII
>>46072753
>UNDEAD ZERG
>>46072753
they'll get space orcs first
this is metzen we're talking about
>>46072779
>Scourge
>UD zerg
they'd be more shocktroopers and the undead act as resource-takers.Or just UD from wc3.
It seems like this general prefers bronze dragon (male) over blue dragon (male).
>>46071120
You ate correct. The balance made some sense when the Bronzebeards were spending all their time and resources against the Dark Irons. Now...
>>46071147
The racial politics as they stand have next to no basis.
>Forsaken fighting 3 front war
>Lets send emissaries across the ocean
(Sylv being a high elf must have assumed they would make contact w/NE or Forsaken human sought to make contact with family aka Jaina)
>Orcs just finish war on Hyjal/Undead
>da look dat be ded man ship
>uhg yup we shoot ded, make ded gen sinky sink
>duno howbout open gate let in
>zug zug
Many more examples.
>>46072880
Male dragons know the best shortstacks.
>>46070809
This guy gets it.
Played WoW around the end of vanilla beginning of TBC and mid WotLK and I gotta say it doesn't feel as magical. My first character was NE Warrior and exploring everything was so amazing, I've recently started that trial version and it just feels like I'm going though the motions
>>46073048
Join Nostralius PvE Server
Nost is the only way to experience it again, but now the PvP server is far too busy (15k players peak on a server/game meant for 4k at most)
>>46070809
Go to bed Kosak.
>>46070416
A minor correction, that was the newest strain of Scourge plague, not the lesser version used during WC3.
>>46071827
http://boards.420chan.org/h/res/329330.php
>>46072046
>implying that Kel'thuzad won't be educating Bolvar on how to run a Scourge after being the Lich King's secretary of state for 8 years
>>46073347
I don't think Bolvar would trust someone with more loyalty to the evil voices in his head that keep trying to take over than loyalty to him. (And even though the Frost DK "kills" those voices it's anything but permanent)
>>46070673
You guys seen the new Warcraft: Illidan spoilers? I'd link it but I'm on my phone. The most notable things areIllidan and his army destroying the dreadlord home world of Nazthreaand perpetuating the "one legion across all realities" thing even though that doesn't make logistical sense.
>>46073386
>Illidan and his army destroying the dreadlord home world of Nazthrea
so they really transformed Illidan into a dindu?
>>46073409
He's more the crazed zealot that turned out to be 100% correct
>>46073409
No, the main character still says that Illidan is fucking insane.
I read the spoilers about a minute ago too. From what I gather, the Dreadlords should be heading to extinction soon.
>>46073409
He can fuck the Legion while still having fucked up on Azeroth, you know. They aren't mutually exclusive.
>>46073422
I just realised that Illidan is /pol/
>>46073376
it doesn't matter if Bolvar trusts him or not, Kel'thuzad would just show up and start handling things so Bolvar didn't have to, and every time Bolvar took issue he'd just brush it off with some sort of vague reference to "how the last guy did things..." and keep going
Kel'thuzad is the ultimate right hand and it'll be a cold die in hell when he lets the Scourge go unguided
>>46073427
>extinction
Don't Dreadlords have the whole respawning schtick going for them?
>>46073422
>>46073427
>>46073431
I'm not really talking about fucking up on Azeroth, but on the Outlands
The guy only defended himself against the Horde and the Alliance but he also attacked Shattrath before the portal opened
Guy attacked Shattrath
>>46073409
I think they're just giving him things that he had done and he was planning during the time between his second exodus to Outland and TBC. He alsowas planning to go to Argus and kill KJ and Archimonde in the nether, but we killed him before his army came back from Mardrum.
>>46073466
>, but we killed him before his army came back from Mardrum
so the playable Demon hunters are this army, right?
It's a good idea
>>46073466
So what you're telling me is that Akama is a stupid, butthurt piece of shit who sent us after Illidan; despite the fact that Illidan was planning to kill the two people at the top of his shit list?
Man they're really making him into a bumbling retard, aren't they?
>Illidan builds an army capable of invading a main legion race's homeworld and winning
>We did not destroy this army during TBC, it was out murdering the fuck out of a demon world
>The Legion is invading Azeroth
>Illidan is coming back
Are they setting up Illidan to be the hero that Azeroth needs?
>>46073386
>You guys seen the new Warcraft: Illidan spoilers? I'd link it but I'm on my phone. The most notable things are Illidan and his army destroying the dreadlord home world of Nazthrea and perpetuating the "one legion across all realities" thing even though that doesn't make logistical sense.
I thought that Dreadlords were from Xoroth, the same world as Dreadsteeds.
>>46073427
>I read the spoilers about a minute ago too. From what I gather, the Dreadlords should be heading to extinction soon.
Does their homeworld need to be intact for them to come back or can they reform anywhere in the Nether?
>>46073453
All Demons have that now (Unfortunately) but it may require their homeworlds remain intact in the Nether.
>>46073457
The most common fan theory on that is Kael'thas was already working for Kil'Jaeden and staged the Shattrath attack as a False-flag to start a war between Shattrath and Illidan so they couldn't team up.
Did the Illidan book change that?
>>46073495
He probably just doubted Illidan could succeed. And considering how he cowered from Kil'Jaeden after seizing the Black Temple/HFC I can see why he'd think Illidan was just talking a big game after enslaving the rest of his people.
>>46073495
>So what you're telling me is that Akama is a stupid, butthurt piece of shit who sent us after Illidan;
the Black Temple trailer lays that out in no uncertain terms. We kill Illidan for no reason other than Akama being butthurt that the draenei are incompetent sub-humans
>>46073537
>We kill Illidan for no reason other than Akama being butthurt that the draenei are incompetent sub-humans
That and because he drops teh purples. Really, all the Legion would have to do ensure their victory is to offer the players better loot in exchange of killing everybody on Azeroth. Imagine what kind of drops you'd get for killing a nascent Titan!
>>46070855
>Elves using guns.
I don't know why I like that subversion so damn much. Same with non-gandalf wizards.
>>46073643
>Imagine what kind of drops you'd get for killing a nascent Titan!
World of Warcraft: Borderlands edition?
I really hope that they don't COMPLETELY replace Grell with Pandaren sprites.
>>46071187
don't forget that the existance of harpies and centaurs are both the direct result of the night elves allies.
>>46073670
damn man. After several decades of fighting undeads, my blood elf huntress is now armed with the medieval equivalent of a Barrett M82
She spent way too much time hanging out of crazy ass goblins
>>46073683
Grells are shit
>>46071027
There's nothing wrong with the Horde winning. Its when the Horde turned into a superpower overnight and kept their "underdog always wins" superpower and won at everything with ease.
The Horde is way more interesting when they are undermanned, low on resources, forced to be smart about which fights to pick, make do with less, and still have honor the entire time.
That's the main lesson Saurfang was trying to beat into Garrosh. You can't win wars on pride and prowess alone.
>>46073452
>Lich King Bolvar
>Grand Vizier Kel'thuzad->Cult of the damned (Liches and the forsaken (non-DK))
>High lord Darion Mograine of the ebon blade->DKs
YES
>>46073697
>Grells are shit
YOU'RE shit!
But really, I liked them a lot as Azeroth's "Native" version of nature-imps rather than just tiny plant-people.
I also like to imagine what sort of wild-shapes they would have if they went full-druid.
Badger Druids of the Claw? Tiny cats? Maybe Pandaren imps as their "Tree form" for healing.
>>46073787
I'm seeing Mograine and Kel'Thuzad as partly comic relief through humorous comparisons. Darius is super serious about being undead, talking constantly about how it's a curse that must be borne and all that. Meanwhile KT thinks being a lich is just the neatest shit and is generally enjoying being a spooky giant skeleton.
>>46073931
>Meanwhile KT thinks being a lich is just the neatest shit and is generally enjoying being a spooky giant skeleton.
Yeah, he seems like the kind of guy who would enjoy the shit out of his job.
>>46073931
>KT gets less uppity after being killed for THIRD TIME
>It's adventure KT
>Mograine is serious 24/7
Imagine
>Hey Darion! I'm part of Dehta! I've just adopted 6000 saberons, take care of them toodles!
>>46073999
>All I ever wanted to do was study necromancy
>Now I get to do that all day every day!
>Sure I get killed occasionally, but it's not like it sticks.
>Ain't unlife grand?
>>46074013
And if a subordinate gets uppity, KT gets to execute him over and over and over again until it stops being funny. The best part of the job, hands down.
He'd probably also be very nonchalant about all the evil shit that the scourge gets up to. In fact, I imagine that'd be one of the first conversations he has with Bolivar. I mean if you were the new LK and not like the last two, wouldn't you demand to know what's up?
>>46070695
Them legs
>>46074156
>it's ok we do evil shit
>mostly because nobody else would and everyone else is worse
>let's do some dreadlord necklancing and kick some warlocks in the dick!
>>46073999
I've always wondered what the Lich King must think of him owning a cat.
Also, how the fuck does Mr. Bigglesworth not shit himself in abject terror inside Naxxramas?
>>46074207
>how the fuck does Mr. Bigglesworth not shit himself in abject terror inside Naxxramas
He's a cat. He probably thinks he owns the place and that everyone else is an underling.
>>46074207
He got used to it plus plenty of food.
Also he doesn't really get into the quarters.
>>46074254
Well, I'm pretty sure the chain of command is
KT>Bigglesworth>Everyone else.
>>46074264
Confirmed for not a cat owner.
Bigglesworth>KT>Everyone Else.
>>46074255
What would he eat though? I don't think there are that many non-plagued rats in Naxx, unless he eats those giant (compared to normal ones, not the ones we have to fight) grubs and maggots that run around.
>>46074264
Also, if the battle pet is any indication, Bigglesworth is undead.
>>46074362
He could be eating that, or whatever KT feeds him.
>That slooty pic of Maiev and Illidan.
Maiev has white hair. fantasy ruined.
>>46074362
>implying KT hasn't thought of ways to deal with this problem already
>implying he doesn't send out undead minions to murder various Northrend animals, dragging back their carcasses for the express purpose of feeding Mr. Bigglesworth
>implying KT doesn't spend time painstakingly processing these meats into the sort of DIY cat chow made by obsessive cat owners
>implying KT didn't see Dalaran's arrival as a mixed blessing, sending out disguised cultists to infiltrate the city's pet shops to acquire high quality cat food
>>46074428
Look at her old model. Her hair has always been visible, at the top.
>>46074458
If I ever run a warcraft campaign again I am totally stealing that as a silly quest. Tracking down the cultist activity in [major city], and in the end it's KT sending out his men to get some new cat toys because Bigglesworth wrecked the last set.
Is it weird to want a somewhat-more-benevolent but still madness and mutation inducing 5th Old God for crazed tentacle cultists who DON'T necessarily want to destroy and enslave everything?
>>46074554
Fuck off.
>>46074554
The conch says yes.
>>46074554
>>46074591
>>46074605
Ahe well.
I like weird fish and tentacle beasties, plus a theme of nightmares but don't especially like the Void ties and whatnot.
I was mostly imagining an Old-God equivalent to Anzu's "Cool, Comforting Shadow" as opposed to "Endless suffering and torment"
>>46070948
That's how it always was back in WC2.
>>46073931
He's not all bad. He does like his kitty.
>>46071070
>>46072884
Yeah that doesn't really make sense. The link between the Forsaken and the Blood-Elves I really dig because of the aesthetic clashes and shared desperation and history of being fucked over by the Scourge.
The main reason they did it, to be honest, is because they needed the Horde to have a significant base in the Eastern Kingdoms.
In my ideal WoW, they would have started with large areas of both Kalimdor and the EK, including all of Lordaeron, inaccessible and made the remaining lands bigger. Big enough that they could include, say, a significant orc faction in the larger Grim Batol area that had united and allied with Thrall's Horde. Or something like that. Maybe Ogres there. Who knows?
That way, they could have done two expansions simply filling out Kalimdor and the EK and left Outland, Northrend etc for later ones.
They could then have introduced the starting zones of the new races in the EK and Kalimdor, which I think would have been cool. Condiering the ridiculous number of sapient species Azeroth the planet has, playing some of the more obscure ones would be nice.
>>46075346
...why ARE the Forsaken 100% Human? Pretty sure a lot of elves got raised as Undead but as far as I'm aware the Forsaken are just human.
>>46075346
>Big enough that they could include, say, a significant orc faction in the larger Grim Batol area that had united and allied with Thrall's Horde.
that happened in Cataclysm and it was dumb
>Garrosh allies with the enslavers of fucking Alexstrasza
>don't worry guys they dindu nuffin, it was all Nekros and Zuluhed
>when Garrosh turns evil they immediately join him
>>46075428
I think we're presuming in these "if I could change something" posts that the idiots currently in charge of the writing would be tossed out as a matter of course. I mean would anyone here really want to keep them?
>>46075426
There's the occasional dark rangeror gnomein WoW
>>46075485
>Human Forsaken are half-rotted corpses with exposed skeletons
>Dark Rangers are just albino BElf girls
wew lad
>>46075485
Pretty sure he means as a playable chaeacter. And most of the Dark rangers are remnants from WC2 and WC3, not newly raised.
>>46075426
Aren't all of the Banshees former elves?
>>46075428
Mind you, the Dragonmaw *DID* turn all their attention to killing Black Dragons even before they joined the Horde. Alextraza may have considered that sufficient penance.
>>46075478
even if it was different writers, it's still a dumb idea, the Dragonmaws were second only to the Stormreavers and Twilight's Hammer for depravity and abuse of fel magic, it'd be like if suddenly the night elves invited the Highbourne back and said there were no hard feelings....
>>46075551
Pretty sure. And what's why Sylvanas was the Banshee Queen.
>>46075543
Well yeah, the Val'kyr only know how to raise Vrykul and Humans.
>>46075590
True, that particular clan probably wouldn't be usable, but if the Horde needs outposts in the EK I'm sure there are other groups that can be used, I doubt that every single settlement of decent orcs went to Kalimdor with Thrall, after all.
>>46075590
kek
>>46075346
>you will never experience exploring north of the Thandol Span for the first time since the Third War, coming into contact with the various groups that have risen up in Lordaeron's shadow.
>>46075426
Convenience, mostly. Why go through the hassle of designing and modelling elven and dwarven undead when a basic human model is sufficient, especialy since the vast majority of Forsaken are raised Lordaeronians, anyway?
>>46075551
Some lore, mostly from the comics, indicates that there were also elven zombies. Banshees in turn appear to have become very complicated in origin and much more effort is required to create one.
I think they'll expand this to Trolls in Legion because that dem dere updated model sure has a lot more nose and ugly than your average elfgirl.
>>46075640
Every orc that joined second war were insane murder phycho
Only the ones that get put in the interment camp calmed down and become relatively decent.
And they were all rescued by Thrall and went to kalimdor.
So anyone who weren't saved by Thrall is still crazy psycho from WC2.
And why didn't Alexdrasaz burn all the dragonmaw into crisp again?
>>46075640
They pretty much all did, a few of them moved BACK to the EK (Frostwolves returning to guard Durotan's tomb, other Orcs returning to guard Hammerfall), but only with Forsaken help.
>>46075709
Busy with Deathwing, and rehabilitating her own flight.
She's not particularly vengeful and there were always bigger threats. She did undermine their support from the Blackrock with that one Red Dragon sent over that got turned evil in Blackwing Lair
>>46075428
>>46075478
Yes I am assuming they are thrown out.
This. You could have written it all sorts of ways. I know Thrall's Horde have the whole redemption seeking thing, but something similar with the Dragonmaw could work. Or there are other ways of writing them in.
I'd just wish they'd made Azeroth bigger. It'd have been so cool if it took them 2-3 expansions just to finish the EK and Kalimdor. You could have Firbolgs and a playable NE ally race, you could have all sorts of interesting things going on.
>>46075752
Not in MoP she weren't.
The Blackrock weren't working with Dragonmaw.
And Dragonmaw joined Horde and went no a murder rampage.
>>46075659
Exactly. That's an expansion's worth of content right there. More, in fact. You've got the terrified human remnants, the blood elves and the forsaken, all in conflict yet trying to desperately halt the advance of the Scourge, while the Wildhammers and Amani war against each other in the east. Gilneas is the one major human nation remaining, desperately trying to support the little communities in Alterac and Hillsbrad. Etc.
>>46075891
Wildhammer lives far away from the Amani, why are they at war now?
And Gilneas cut themselves off the rest of the world after 2nd war.
That's why they did nothing in 3rd war.
>>46075835
the aspects sacrificed their power remember, if she tried anything she'd get captured and bred for real this time.
>>46075923
Forest troll tribes did live in the hinterlands, and if the Scourge is slowing down its momentum it is not impossible to consider that Zul'Aman itself might try to begin rebuilding its power base in the vacuum that the collapse of Lordaeron provided.
As for Gilneas, it is true that they went full isolationist post second war, but that same kind of self centered pragmatism may be used to advocate lending aid to what is left. After all, while you may be confident in the Wall it is still better for the scourge to stay over there, and not trying to knock it over.
>>46075891
Exactly this. I remember in the original vanilla map of the world, they'd left pretty large chunks of the world blank and inaccessible. Not just Hyjal or Cataclysm's hidden not!Egyptian kingdom, but IIRC entire coastal areas and mountain ranges were blank, and most of them seemed large enough to have few zones' worth of content.
I'd always been curious what Blizz was going to do with that, but then they came out with Cataclysm and upended everything. Ah well.
>>46076003
The dragonflight is still huge and would easily turned the table in the war.
Yet they did absolutely nothing, again.
"BZ writting staff sucks" is always the correct answer because their lore is freaking stupid.
>>46076052
Yeah. I remember someone had an expansion idea that involved turning a big mountain-range area between Feralas, Ungoro and Thousand Needles into an upland zone. Not to mention, like you said, all the coastal areas and mountain ranges. But that was more because they needed mountains to border every zone and such; I'd suggest having the unused areas all be together, so while none of Lordaeron is avaiable you can walk the entire coast of Azeroth+Khaz Modan and they'll be stuff there all the way around.
>>46076016
Yes, but Amani empire ended long ago.
The trolls that live in hinterland are Vilbranch, Witherbark and Revantusk , not Amani.
And Zul'Aman did try to rebuild but was curb-stomped by greedy adventures.
Gilneas went in a war because the king refused to keep Amberhill and pyrewoods.
That's quite unlikely.
>>46076171
Look we're talking about grand, sweeping hypothetical changes to the way WoW is set up as far back as Vanilla. Story changes will necessarily come with that.
>>46076171
Like I said, in this "version" in my head the lore is being rewritten. So maybe the various troll tribes managed to unite since the humans and elves got their shit kicked in by the Scourge.
Who knows if a new King has taken the throne? Or if they're trying to prevent people entering the Kingdom while still trying to project power, because they feel they need to to prevent their enemies conquering them?
>>46075835
Prior to Cata the Dragonmaw had been part of the Dark Hold with the Blackrock (Parts of Blackwing Lair even have "Dragonmaw" in the name.)
During Cata the Dragonmaw turned against the Black Dragons for reasons we don't understand, at which point I am sure Alextraza was more than happy to have them fight each other.
>>46076095
The Dragonmaw had the chain that held the Demon Soul and absorbed some of its power. It's possible that post-weakening the chain alone could have enslaved true dragons. So why chance it?
And the Dragonflights are apparently sterile now so they can't absorb any losses.
>>46076106
Funny enough the little hotsprings area they added between Feralas and Silithus was supposed to be a gate to the elemental plane of water before they cut the sister-raid from the Firelands patch.
>>46075891
There were not THAT many, nor were they that big. You could fit a small zone maybe twice the size of Deadwind Pass or 3/4s the size of Un'Goro east of Redridge, a zone maybe the size of Deadwind north of Stormwind, and that's about it.
>>46076214
then you have to rewrite 3rd war too because that's when they should helped in the first place.
>>46076284
That's not terribly hard, actually. Either add a Gilnean contingent to some of the human militaries, or change some of the forces present to Gilnean. Hell if you want to explain why they don't take a bigger stand now make it Lord Garithos.
Gilneas figured that Lordaeron could take care of it's own business; and then it collapsed. They sent an expedition lead by Garithos and that got Forsaken'd, so now they use more indirect help, supporting the settlements that currently exist while not marching out in force again.
>>46076216
Prior to Cata Dragonmaw is decimated and lives in Wetland, you had a bunch of quests to kill them.
I take you never played alliance because that part was infuriating.
They were never part of the Dark Horde.
Because alliance might have lost and dragonmaw will roam the land once more? why not give alliance a hand again?.
And I never found any lore about dragons becoming sterile, who the hell keep spaming that non-sense again?
>>46076315
But Garithos is from Lordaeren is why he had such fiery hatred toward the elves.
Gileans is too far from Quel'thalas.
I just want to play as these guys and if not them than Saurok would be acceptable mostly because lizardmen are kickass
>>46076352
He wasn't terribly fond of dwarves either. I thought he was just a general purpose speciest.
>>46076411
He is a dick to anything non-human but he "hates" elves, not just a dick.
I like Warcraft Elves cause they can grow beards.
Also the fact that High Elves are high as fuck on magic.
>>46076333
They were indeed still allied to the Dark Horde, but they were mostly based in the Wetlands.
In BtDP the second wave of Orcs from Draenor go to Rend and Maim to ask for access to the Dragonmaw's enslaved Red Dragons.
That tie was retained for quite a while.
>>46076411
Yes, but he had a special hate for elves since his hometown was sacked while his forces were away fighting in Quel'Thalas during the Second War.
>>46076496
I only wish they didn't have those retarded eyebrows, and if Night Elves didn't have floppy ears. My only real complaints about them.Also why I only roll a Blood Elf.
>>46076496
>Also the fact that High Elves are high as fuck on magic.
and they're called night elves because they can go all night long
>>46076528
This person gets it.
>>46074554
Go home NiceDaemonette
>>46076636
Not sex tentacles. Just insane but in a different way.
Like a bunch of nuts who believe an Old god is embedded in the far side of the Blue Child that drains the other Old gods, and believe it so fervently their madness empowers them.
(There may actually NOT be a 5th Old God empowering them but they're crazy enough that they can leech power off of and dominate the creatures of the existing ...Well i guess only three even stand a chance of being "Alive.")
>>46076513
yes but that was before DoTD, when they still had a large force.
After that they ran to wetland and the Dark Horde cut tie with them since they are useless by then.
>>46076696
There was never a specific confirmation that they cut ties, and the Dark Horde DID keep the name "Dragonmaw" on the hatchery in Blackwing Lair.
>>46076333
Dawn of the Aspects: Part I, pg. 84: "...and her ability to lay more had been forever taken away, but in addition to all that she lived with the knowledge that the other dragonflights had also suffered so. She might have accepted her loss of power, but not this loss of her kind’s future."
It's ogre for dragons until that is retconned or fixed.
>>46076691
I can see that. Maybe not one that is fighting us actively because it's fighting the others for dominance of the planet alone. It considers us pitiful tools so doesn't actively try to destroy us and helps us subvert the other old gods and their minions. At the end of the day, we'd probably end up fighting him once his other foes were defeated but at least it'd be an interesting partnership for a time. Not like we haven't done something like it before with the Klaxxi.
>>46076387
Amen man. Arakoa and Ethereals are all I want.
>>46075346
When WoW came out there were no BEs. You calling attention the the fact Sylvonas was a high elf means nothing to why they would sail overseas.
The augment I made that you ignored was that there is no plot link between the Forsaken and the Horde. The vidya game makes the world feel small when it is enormous.
>>46076352
>>46076411
This is speculation however it may have been a plan to convert the Blood Elves even Illidan was unaware of. Illidan agreed to serve Kil'jaden (Legion). Lady Vashj never lost faith in the Legion. Dreadlords the Legion's servants can drive people to hated. They also maintained power over the undead in eastern plague lands. Lord Othmar Garithos expressed greater racial prejudice then a man in his position logically should. The elves and dwarves had always served the alliance well.
>Refugees flee south
>They are treated poorly
>Undead advance on far outpost
>Garithos leads ALL fighting men away
>Undead "happen to show up"
>Naga "happen to show up" say they are here to help
>BEs forced to work together with Naga
>Garithos shows up IMMEDIATELY after just in time to see BE and Naga together
>BE inprisoned in Dalaran
>Naga show up cuz they love their cousins
>Naga free BEs
>BEs and Naga free Illidan
>Illidan has no idea who BEs are
>Doesn't care
Wake up sheeple was Garithos really just a random racist or did things happen to perfectly?
>>46076772
I don't even really care for the Old God itself being a thing, the idea that they are so insane they can actually mentally overpower the spawn of the other Old Gods is all that I really need.
>>46076795
The dreadlords used mind control on Garithos and he was the same when they were killed or he snapped out of it.
If he was under another mind control on top of that obviously the Old Gods were behind it, not demons.
>>46076315
I think there is a Gilmean contingent on WC3, actually, in that one orc mission where Grom keeps antagonizing human bases and you need to deal with them while trying to buy zeppelins.
>>46076853
yep. Led by a dwarven mountain king
>>46076853
There is.
I also like the idea of setting a little faction in the ruins of the Stonetalon foothills Alliance bases Grom sacked.
Have some quilboar and whatnot move into them.
>>46076819
Balnazzar fits the bill. He is a great manipulator, alive, in the region, loyal to the Legion and has a strong hatred for the Lich King.
>>46077011
Balnazzar and Garithos did meet and talk to each other in the mission where you beat him. If he could mind control him again he could have done so there and beaten Sylvanas.
It's unlikely that they had a double mind control going on.
>>46076315
We don't even have to "re-write" the lore during the Third War. The beauty of the games up to WoW is that a lot of stuff is actually open for interpretation of the player, because the mechanics are mostly just an abstract representation. So there's definitely a chance that Gilnean auxiliaries of sorts were present in Garithos' force.
Apart from that:
In the RoC Orc campaign in the third mission, I think, you fight against three human bases, one is named "Gilneas Brigade". This implies that Gilneas was open enough to hear out Jaina's plea to bring forces over to Kalimdor prior to Arthas' return and the murder of Terenas.
So there's some proof that some Gilneans were involved in the third war, just not on Lordaeron, and there's definitely the chance that they didn't fully embrace an isolationist mentality up until when WoW would come around.
Consider this:
In Lordaeron, they decided to slowly seal off the border because of plague rumours in northern Lordaeron, until the absolute shutdown with the Greymane Wall. Despite this, they probably still had spies and scouting parties outside, but they definitely didn't want to get involved in any sort of conflict.
After Lordaeron collapsed, eventually Gilneas must've realised that things calmed down, so it was save enough to send out more scouting parties and eventually support the refugecamps with food and maybe even weapons, because then they're more likely to stay where they are intead of trying to come into Gilneas and possibly infect the place, as well, but a re-conquest wasn't assured, so they didn't rally their troops.
As I said, there's definitely a possibility of Gilnean reinforcements in Garithos' army, but they were of such a minor role in the narrative of the campaign that it didn't justify a stronger representation.
That said, I think Gilneas would still mostly have a hands-off approach to the rest of Lordaeron for the time being.
>>46077066
SARGERAS AND THE BETRAYAL
"This dark race of vampiric demons (also known as dreadlords) conquered a number of populated worlds by possessing their inhabitants and turning them to the shadow. The nefarious, scheming dreadlords turned whole nations against one another by manipulating them into unthinking hatred and mistrust."
Yes they do direct posession but, they can just manipulate wills too.
>>46077099
Or that some of the Gilneans left without permission. I'd imagine a lot of the people trapped north of the Greymane Wall decided "Fuck this, we're getting on the boats!"
>>46077158
knowing gilneas they were probably worried about the other human nations getting dibs on the riches of a new, unexplored continent so they sent a brigade just to be sure they wouldn't get left out.
>>46076795
Elves were dicks who only reluctantly joined the alliance because Lothar pulled their ancient Oath out.
And they weren't even trying until the Trolls begin invading quel'thalas with the Horde
Then they soon left after 2nd war ended saying human sucked too much in 2nd war, while Garithos was one of those who helped defend Quel'thalas.
Elves really had it coming for them.
Garithos also says "never trust an elf!"
He would been a fine space marine.
>>46077158
I wasn't aware that Gilneas had sovereign territory north of the wall.
>>46076853
The contingent was sent by Darius Crowley, who were in disagreement with Genn and actually started a civil war over it.
He is currently the leader of the Worgen resistance in Gilneas.
>>46077268
About half of Silverpine, I think.
There was a rebellion when it got cut off by the wall.
>>46077268
Yeah, that's why there was a civil war in Gilneas.
Darius Crowley's lands including that town south of Shadowfang Keep got cut off from the rest of Gilneas.
>>46077268
the area around Shadowfang Keep was part of Gilneas that ended up outside the wall because it would have required the wall to be built in a strategically unsound route. The reason the citizens of Pyrewood Village were turned into Worgen so they couldn't get Scourged
>>46077323
Pretty sure there was an equally sound place to put the wall around the territories but one of the other nobles (The guy who joins, and then betrays Sylvanus) used that as a chance to fuck a rival.
>>46077268
Both pyrewood village and ambermill were property of Darius Crowley
This is why he was furious about the wall being built.
>>46077323
Pyrewood village citizens were turned into worgen because of Archmage Arugul. Silvepine was not in control of Forsaken prior to Cata.
>>46076387
I want Naga, personally. Loved them since Warcraft III.
>Kel'Thuzad
.. I know that he is a lich and we killed him at naxx.. but did we ever destroy his phylactery?
>>46077511
his phylactery was given to a guy who turned out to be a member of the Cult of the Damned, he escaped Light's Hope Chapel with it and took it to Northrend, where Kel'thuzad was reformed and turned him into a lich as a reward, then we killed him again and left his phylactey somewhere so he could come back and guide the Ebon Blade and Bolvar
>>46077561
So KT is still a somewhat threat?
I mean as long as his phylactery it somewhat hidden, he can continue to come back right?
>>46077561
He's going to try to reforge Frostmourne and resurrect his husbando Arthas desu
>>46077596
Yeah, but perviously, and with almost all liches even after Wrath the Pylacetary is just the "Gem on a pedastal" corpse that all of them leave when killed.
>>46077507
I don't like the new, softer, rounder look the updated Naga have in Legion.
>>46077648
Yeah, the chin using the belly coloration and not being as shark really annoys me for some reason.
>>46077648
I like that they're less flat, but my main issue is the chin reduction. The powerful lower jaw gave them some extra character, I think, and made them look more rough and bestial.
>>46077696
I also liked the thinner, more needle-like teeth. They were fishy, as opposed to generic "scary fangs."
>>46077596
Consider his appoximation to Bolvar chances are Bolvar can get a hold of him.
So if he come back he is probably back as an ally.
>>46077627
We already reforged Frostmourn into Frost Deathkinght's artifact weapon Blades of the fallen prince, so that's not going to happen.
>>46077696
Maybe they got tired of everyone being a chinlord? Will pauldrons be the next to go?
>>46077596
I like the idea of Kel coming back again and making a power play against Bolvar, trying to take the crown of Ner'zhul for himself.
>>46077627
Dk frost steals the fragments
>>46077696
>Underbite
>So many teeth
I want draconic Naga to leave.
I want roid-snek Naga to come back.
>>46077696
Heck I didn't even really like the Cata-era reskin all that much on the females. It had the scales go all the way up.
>>46077728
Good point there too.
I also am not too big a fan of all those "Circles" of different scale pattern on top of the body.
>>46077742
When the deal with Sam Raimi to direct the Warcraft movie fell through they must have decided to get rid of all the potential roles for his friend Bruce as well.
>>46077696
New one kinda looks like Hakkar, be chance? Old Gods?
>>46077782
Well, Hakkar did fuck off to who-knows-where after we freed him from Jindo in the revamped Zul Gurub.
>>46077811
I don't think the Gurubashi will make the mistake of summoning Hakkar a fourth time. The chronicle book made it clear just how much of a bad idea it is to summon a blood god. Then again, trolls are kind of dumb sometimes.
>>46077811
Eh his plot thread always felt weak and unfinished, link (evil) loa, old gods, him and naga we get a new wierd sub arc with Naga + reformed troll empire. That is almost expansion worthy.
>>46077900
It really is weak because Blizzard doesn't know how to reconcile all the deities they introduce with their larger cosmos they keep making up as they go.
And I hated the troll raids at the time, but now, I kinda miss all the weird gimmicks.
>>46076795
I accepted the point that there was no plot link between the Forsaken and Horde. I don't deny that at all.
What I'm saying is I really like an alliance between the Forsaken and the Blood Elves for thematic and aesthetic reasons. I know BE weren't until TBC, but in this weird alt-WoW in my head Blood Elves and Forsaken and maybe Gilneans would be introduced as part of a single expansion. Or hey, maybe there wouldn't be any forsaken, just Gilneans and Blood Elves. Idk.
>>46077949
Bloodelves WERE in TFT, but there wasn't any indication that any remained on Azeroth.
>>46077949
The Blood Elves are only BLOOD Elves because they got bent over and reamed by Arthas' big, frosty undead cock.
It just doesn't fit for them to roll over and prepare for frosty, sloppy seconds with Sylvanas and her Forsaken.
>>46077949
Now that point I can agree too. However I i agree more with >>46078020 It was indicated they were something like a 1% survival and literally all of them left.
Going beyond that, the ascetic of the lost elves and the armies of the dead is amazing. They did nothing with that.
>>46078020
Sylvanas has not really done anything to Horde and especially Blood Elves. Horde considers Varimathras and Putress an issue unrelated to Sylvanas (probably helped by the big shout from Sargeras/Kiljaeden when you beat Varimathras). As far as Blood Elves are concerned, Sylvanas used to be one of them. Probably as important a figure to Lor'themar as Drek'thar to Thrall.
>>46078150
I would have enjoyed seeing a undead elf model and having them populate 2/3 of Silvermoon. Address it in more of the quests. They are not two factions but still one large force. The elves died but, their strong willed ranger general freed their people and others of Lorderon.
All we got was 1 small quest and heard banchees sing.
>>46078150
>Horde considers Varimathras and Putress an issue unrelated to Sylvanas
She was supporting the "Death to the living" bullshit until Wrath tried to turn her into a "dindu nuffin"
And she still raises corpses and spreads plague where she can.
>Sylvanas used to be one of them
Considering all the bullshit with Alleria and Vereesa, I'm sure the elves are sick of the drama the Windrunners tend to cause wherever they go.
>>46078226
The undead were fairly isolationist pre-wrath, sure they'd kidnap humans (Mostly Scarlet types) to test their own plagues on but they generally didn't expand too much.
>>46078226
>>46078395
One thing I think most people ignore is Sylvonas is just a mini Lich King. They are not free they are still connected to get will.
This is expressed in the DK quests. Most of the "mindless" undead are not mindless. In there on way they have lives and politics.
I belive it is the same with our banchee queen. Not only did she not donuffin. She is the mastermind behind it all.
>>46078474
She definitely is now. But ranging from vanilla up until the beginning of WotLK, I actually believe that the Forsaken are a force of genuine common interest who follow Sylvanas because she was the most valid person to receive supreme command at the time.
Or at the very least discovered that the Varimathras was plotting and left him to it because he was an easy patsy doing what she wanted done either way.
>>46078544
That's about as likely to happen as Thrall drinking Kil'jaedens piss by accident and becoming a fel orc raid boss. There's so much baby rage about Sylvanas from some it's unreal.
Her storyline will be about val'kyrs and how to deal with the issue of her damnation which was the reason she started using the val'kyr in the first place. Not about plagues and fighting in the Eastern Kingdoms.
>>46073347
>secretary of state Kel'thuzad
I'm not gonna lie, that sounds awesome.
>>46073527
>All Demons have that now (Unfortunately) but it may require their homeworlds remain intact in the Nether.
They've had it at least since TBC.
