Go vs Chess, which takes more strategy, skill, etc.
I honestly couldn't tell you which requires more skill since I'm an amateur at both.
I personally enjoy chess more though.
>>46049730
I played Go only once or twice, i play chess regularly. Chess speaks more to me personaly. I think how hard the game is really depends on who you are playing, from what i remember Go has simpler rules but more combinations, while chess has more complicated rules but less combinations
>>46049730
Go is non-local, thus it is a superior game.
For example, I don't have a Go club in my town. The closest is at least 30 km removed.
>>46049791
how dose it make it superior?
I'd say that go is more complex than chess, but the beauty of go is that all the complexity emerges naturally from a few simple rules,.This is the main reason why I prefer go to chess.
The same statement can't be said for chess which begins with relatively complex and mostly totally abitrary rules.
The "standard" modern day go board is 4x larger than the chess board.
Pro go games very rarely end in draws whereas most pro chess games end in draws.
A game of go begins without any stones placed on the board which means that the "setup" of the game is decided by the players. In chess, the pieces are all placed in defined positions.
No two 19x19 go games are the same, whereas chess games are often the same at professional level.
>>46049730
>glorious chess figures carved from expensive materials vs pleb go "stones" found in shit on the roadside
So, it's basically "be evil for money" or "be a good cuck". DnD never changes.
>>46049730
Both of them are solved, so they aren't worth playing anyway.
>>46052110
>Go and Chess
>Solved
>>46052134
>Chess
>Play white
>Win
>>46052103
Eat shit ignoramous. Go stones can be made of any semi-precious stone. Traditionally, they were made from clamshell (white) and slate (black). Try finding a 1cm thick clamshell big enough to drill 180 stones from on the beach, then tell me how pleb go stones are.
>>46049730
Chess became too hard for humanity to compete in 1996, Go became too hard for humanity to compete in 2016. Clearly Chess requires more skill.
>>46049958
>most pro chess games end in draws
[Citation Needed]
>>46049730
Well, Go takes more computing power to come up with a strategy that is on tier with or superior to peak human skill.
>>46052134
Yeah, people use the term incorrectly, most don't see difference between artificial intelligence sufficiently advanced to beat any human opponent and game being literally solved.
>>46055664
whilst he is wrong I believe what he means is most "classic" style games end in draws (50-55% or there about).
In faster time control games like blitz the number of wins goes up as players make more errors.
Go is objectively the more complex game. It arguably takes more skill as well, but I enjoy playing Chess more, probably because I started younger and am not as bad at it.
I wouldn't consider Chess or Go "strategy" games. They are only remotely like that when played by people who are casual with the game.
When you get serious with the game, it's not about strategy vs strategy, but about memorization of patterns vs memorization of patterns. The person who knows a wider and more complex array of patterns will win every time.
There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it's a mistake to consider these games "strategy games".
>>46052134
They might as well be considered "solved", for the exact reason I am talking about.
>>46056870
>but about memorization of patterns vs memorization of patterns
Isn't that ultimately what strategy boils down to?
>>46049820
Have to deal with it less. Absence, heart, fonder, etc.
>>46056932
Not really. Strategy games have dynamic and changing elements to them to challenge your skills in a wide array of possible situations and modifiers. 3+ player politics, randomly generated maps, dice roll elements, things like this quickly enforce elements of strategy over pattern memorization. Having more than two players does this in particular.
Chess and Go are 1v1 games on a static field. As I said, there's nothing wrong with this, I just can't see how they can be considered strategy games when it boils down to memorizing static, mathematically based patterns.
>Go
I'm an old chinese man/I'm a hipster
>Chess
I'm an old russian man/I'm a neckbeard
Why not both?
9x9 board
Pieces as king position
lose them to lose the game
2 passes dont end the game
>>46057060
I disagree. Many classic RTS games don't have any of those elements, and are unquestionably strategy games. They also include a strong element of pattern memorization, in terms of build paths, resource optimization, and so on. Perhaps a better way to go about this is giving some examples of games you consider to be strategy games. Is Stratego a strategy game? Is Monopoly? If they are, why are they and not chess or go?
>>46057322
legit answer
There are several other old [country] men you could choose for chess, though. It's a much more widespread game.
King of games and game of kings coming through.
Serious though, chess is fun until you realize it's nothing but formulas and mastered by unbeatable savants. Every game is like this to an extent but chess is a very good example and one of the more extreme.
I've never played Go.
It took 50 years and millions of dollars to build a chess AI that still had to cheat to beat the World Champion
It took two weeks of lunch breaks by some Google employees to build a Go AI that BTFO the Workd Champion
Weebs always lose
>>46058333
ayyy I love backgammon.
>skill + randomness
>good for one game or a scored tournament
>enough depth for serious play, but casual enough to play at a bar with a few drinks on board
I want to build a set like that.
The misinformation presented in this thread is astounding. To be expected from /tg/ I guess
>>46049730
What's up with all the Go love lately?
>>46058480
Yeah, I've never seen a fancy set or really any backgammon sets for sale that aren't cheap travel briefcases. I really love to play it and I'm alright at it too so it'd be nice to have.
You can find gorgeous chess sets everywhere though.
>>46058563
those are some sweet corrections you gave
>>46049730
Chess requires more skillto make a good set of peices from scratch
>>46058333
I thought this image was a real board instead of a render from a game.
Fuck, I'm not even surprised either but not being able to tell real from render would have blown everyone away decades ago
singularity is real
>>46058670
Backgammon has sort of been relegated to "boring games we only play at grandma's house".
A fancy chess set sitting out is a status symbol, even if the owner barely knows the rules.
>>46058725
A lot of product shots have been rendered for years. Bit of a bummer for skilled product photographers.
If you see a "photo" of a fancy watch or smartphone in an ad, it's likely a render.
Works best with smooth/metallic objects. Food and soft goods are much harder to do.
>>46058833
my grandfather actually taught me how to play backgammon, that might be why I hold it in such esteem.
Also I've never really thought of chess as a quick, exciting game but you hit the nail on the head with fancy sets.
>>46058475
Chess is an eastern game too. In origin at least.
>>46049730
Go is the more complex game, really, even though I love chess. Chess, in motion, is quite limited. (But that's why I love about it.)
>>46059144
It was a popular club game for a few decades. Like a classy affair with tournaments and whatnot. Never at the level of Chess maybe, with international champions on the evening news and all that.
Maybe it went down along with the popularity of men's social clubs?
>>46059608
I'm sure, that side of the family was also way into bridge, cribbage as well as super into euchre and other trick-taking card games, but that was a different time and place in the country.
I wish I could find people that knew how to play or wanted to play.
>>46059294
Chess was invented in Ireland m8
>>46058475
Yes, and it took 69 years and trillions of dollars to build the infrastructure and machines for you to shitpost on the internet.
It took me 1 minute to reply to you.
Retards always lose.
>>46061043
>Gocuck mad that his much wise wow amaze mystic chink champion got BTFO by a Chrome app 2 weeks after development started
>>46061961
>chesscuck content in his many years of service to his robot overlords
>>46062037
computer databases, tablebases ,engines and training tools have made us better players than we were before m8
sounds like they're the ones in our service
>>46062130
Then how is that any different than AI go? Particularly game 4 of the Lee Sedol matches is a godly match. With advance go ai, we could elevate level of play in a similar manner.
Real question:
Which do you prefer /tg/, Poker or Mahjong?
>>46049730
>Go vs Chess, which takes more strategy, skill, etc.
This is simple to verify.
Create a chess biatlon, where people play on a simultanous go and chess match.
The one that wins both win the match. A win and a tie is not a win.
Now get the strongest guy on this sport and get him to play against strong go only players and strong chess only players.
The game he will have more losses is the one that need more strategy
>>46062193
Mahjong. I don't know how to play Poker.
>>46052217
A proper game of chess involves two rounds where the players alternate colours
>>46062202
as some example, the decatlon sport that need more skill is 110 m hurdle
>>46058333
>CG mugs
>>46062193
I sort of like the thrill of poker. My family just plays dominoes though.
>>46056870
My redguard, real strategy games have
>morale
>range
>firepower
>numbers
>supply lines
>motivation
>mentality
etc
Chess is child's play
>>46066008
>translation: "i'm shit at chess"
>>46057060
>3+ player politics, randomly generated maps, dice roll elements
Politics and randomness are pretty much the opposite of strategy.
>4chan
>asking if anything is superior to the asian equivalent
The problem with Go is that while it is more complex is scope, most of the moves used by the pros become a series of pattern recognition.
Look at a go terminology encyclopedia, they invent fucking words for the most mundane of shit.
Chess is the superior game.
>>46049730
I believe that Go has the higher skill ceiling.
Chess is currently closer to being solved, and It's taken roughly 19 more years to develop a pro-level go computer then it took to develop a pro-level chess computer.
Chess: so bad it has to ride some other game's hype train just to keep a thread alive for more than five posts.
>>46067472
>most of the moves used by the pros become a series of pattern recognition.
>Look at a go terminology encyclopedia, they invent fucking words for the most mundane of shit.
This is different from Chess how?
>>46055722
Still one of my favourite gifs.
>>46062193
Mahjong. Vastly prefer mahjong. Now get in 7447 fag.
>>46049730
Chess and go represents American idealism and eastern socialism respectively.
Chess (invented on India but ultimately refined by Europeans) represents the western dominant mind set of the importance of the individual. The pieces are all unique and even a pawn can become a Queen.
Contrast to Go which it represents the logical conclusion to a collective ideology. Not only all the units the same saying you have an infinite amount of them. Taking and holding tuff matters. men do not.
>>46068147
Okay, that graph is technically accurate but bullshit if we're going by the spirit of the results. There's only 3 goddamn percentages on your chart.
>>46068147
>unlabeled x and y axes
this shit would NOT fly in gaming group
>>46068165
I'm pretty sure that's the joke.
>>46058670
This is my set that I got from my dad. It's been kind of destroyed by my kids, but it used to be pretty nice.
>>46068616
huh. i have that same set
>>46068147
is that sides or players?
>>46049730
Both are solved so who cares?
>>46057060
>memorizing static, mathematically based patterns.
What strategy games aren't? I mean Paradox games (as easy as they are) and even hard titles like War in the East still boil down to recognizing patterns and knowing the appropriate counter to those patterns.
>>46062193
Poker. I prefer Go to Chess however.
>>46058638
Apparently there's some AI that was kicking a Go master's ass in it
>>46056870
It's only a "solved" game when all possible moves have been calculated beforehand and accounted for, checkers was solved, chess is far from solved and go is considered unsolvable with modern technology.
>>46062193
MCR > Texas Hold 'em, but then again we never play for money.
>>46067912
Not a gif.
>>46071344
Fine you pedant. I bet you'd complain the robot beat you too.
>>46049730
They kind of both don't at really high levels. In chess you just match gambit to gambit.
Don't get me wrong, they both take tonnes of work to play -- but unfortunately, most games in general don't have much strategy to them when they've been analysed enough. Even Diplomacy, my favourite game, falls to this.
>>46052217
Playing white gives you, what, a 2% greater chance at victory than playing black?
That's hardly "solved."
>>46068616
>It's been kind of destroyed
Yeah, but it's also pretty filthy.
>>46071549
But in ties doesn't black win?
>>46058333
>>46058480
I've always loved Diplomacy.
>only skill
>people politics introduces "randomness"/variety enough that it can't be solved
>people and different countries give it huge replayability
>huge amount of depth
>forces you to roleplay
The only problem is that it's pretty much impossible to play in person.
>>46059294
India isn't Japan you dumb fuck.
>>46052134
Who cares? Human players make mistakes so it doesn't matter whether a supercomputer has solved the game or not.
>>46071626
>impossible to play in person
Why?
Also, while it probably can't be solved mathematically (at least not without singularity tier AI), game theory might reveal some optimal strategies...
>>46074252
There's a tonne of optimal strategies already. Like I said, every game is reduced to some degree when it's scrutinised. The thing is, unlike chess these strategies actually rely on people agreeing to do what you ask them to -- on people not being scared, not being convinced by some other bugger that you're the enemy, or just not being an idiot.
>why?
Because it needs seven dudes and (possibly) an eighth adjudicator, and about seven hours too.
