So the 7th Sea 2nd edition Kickstarter's finally come to an end with about 1.3 million dollars collected and nearly 12,000 backers. Never again shall John Wick have even the scantest doubt of his game design genius, and never shall he have any reason to change his ways. We're all gonna get fucked because of this.
Other than that: thoughts?
>>46003010
My thoughts will be witheld until November when I get the core book PDF and begin disemboweling it of the original rules so that houserules may be put in.
Until then I don't care.
>>46003135
If you're going to ignore the rules anyway, why not start now?
>>46003010
Well, instead of constantly bemoaning what's going on in the lives of whoever you've decided is the biggest Internet Boogeyman, you could get a fucking life.
Just a thought.
>>46003010
He's got a team to hold him down to sanity.
If the game does come out shit (which I sincerely doubt it can possibly be a worse clusterfuck than what the ink monkeys were paid to do to Exalted), then make your own system. It's not like Wick has time to come to your parent's basement and scold you for wrongbadfun...
>>46004785
Agreed. I will try to spend some time this summer looking over suitable mechanics to scribble from. When I get the game, I will run it at least once as written with my group. If it's a good system, and works well with my group (not necessarily the same thing), I'll run it more. If not, the axe comes forth and I'll create some crazy frankensteinian thing to use with the fluff.
>>46005373
Dude, the version of it on the quickstart's probably going to change in some ways but the core is there to stay. If you don't like that, you wouldn't like it by October.
>>46005386
Hence why I'm a) going to run it with my group before I decide (and something funnier than the QS adventure), and b) am looking at alternative systems even now.
>Why is *interesting bit of history* not included in the game, John?
>Well, Theah isn't Europe. It's only similar to it.
>Than why can't I have this cool bit of swashbuckling mythology included and have to abide by boring shit instead?
>THAT'S HISTORICALLY UNREALISTIC, YOU MUNCHKIN
>>46007032
Would be interresting to see what bits and pieces will be missing (and will have /tg/ up in flames as usual).
I backed it on the last day. Worse case scenario I have something new for the collection.
Besides, I'm not really a huge critic of ROG systems so I'm sure I'll enjoy myself, and my players will too.
>>46009020
He already mentioned that there wouldn't be either Jews or gypsies, at least in the corebook (unknown whether or not he's keeping the Fhideli, they weren't in the 1st edition corebook either), and he specifically stated there would be no slavery or manifest destiny in effect in the Americas (because "the Vaticine church looks down on slavery", presumably in contrast to our historical Catholic church which was all over it and also hated scientists and never funded any scientific research), which /tg/ is going to have a field trip with. Unknown as of this point what he's going to do with Africa.
>>46011546
Of the topics you mentioned:
-Jews/Gypsies: Meh, I fail to see what's so fascinating about that. At least it will mean less depressing progroms.
-Manifest Destiny: was apparently not used until later.
-Slavery: good riddance of that depressing topic.
Just a thought, but how would the non-existence of slavery change OUR new World? I seem to recall that slavery could roughly be divided into three groups: servants, agriculture and mining.
Servants are the easiest, with no slaves they would just have to hire someone from the lower classes for a pittance.
Mining, on the other hand, would probably be too expensive without the abundance of labour for very cheap, especially since it had such a high lethality. Or possibly there would be advances to make it not so lethal, and then possible to hire people to do it.
Agriculture, on the third: apparently slavery was mostly (only?) used to grow tobacco, sugar and cotton, all of which are luxury goods. With no slavery, could it still be possible to grow these for a profit? Would we instead see villages having small tobacco/sugar/cotton fields in common for a bit of disposable income? (Note that if this was implemented, the goods could be sold for even higher prices, at least tobacco and sugar, since they would be even MORE of a luxury goods).
>>46011618
>depressing = bad
By that logic you can also remove all others depressing sources of conflict like war, poverty, piracy, disease,...
Personally, I think that rpgs are about overcoming opposition, so depressing issues aren't bad per se IMO.
And seriously, it's a 17th century setting. No one with a bit of common sense is gonna be offended by it, and I would prefer to have consistency instead of a view of 21th century morals.
>>46011546
>presumably in contrast to our historical Catholic church which was all over it and also hated scientists and never funded any scientific research
I cant even tell if you're joking or not
>>46014786
Personally, I see rpgs more as adventures (opposition is part of that, but the main thing is thrilling adventures), and all of those depressing things can serve as fodder for adventure, or at least a backdrop (or background). I might be short on imagination, but I fail to see how you get adventure from slavery or progroms.
>>46003010
After reading through the Quickstart Rules several times I'm not a big fan of the dice mechanics. Pairing up dice to get groups of 10+ as successes just seems convoluted to me. I also don't see why they have to use d10s, those aren't exactly the most common type of die unless your group plays WoD a lot, which is already close enough to 7th Sea mechanic-wise as to not be anything fresh or new.
I'm sure this system could have been altered to use d6s in a way that kept the math and mechanics roughly equivalent. In fact, here's one that should keep the math roughly intact:
>Roll a number of six-sided dice equal to your attribute plus your skill
>Every die showing a 1, 2, or 3 is discarded
>Every two dice showing a 4 or a 5 is a success
>Every die showing a 6 is a success
Anything that adds dice works exactly the same. The effects of your first Dramatic Wound is changed to "Treat 5s as one success instead."
Six-sided dice are way more common than ten-sided dice and thus make these games way more accessible to new players.
>>46014311
Both the cotton economy and plantation slavery we're slowly dying in the south due to it being unprofitable before the cotton gin was invented
>>46003010
>We're all gonna get fucked because of this.
OR you could simply not play anything by him from now on. You know, like a normal person.
>>46015179
>7th Sea using anything but Roll and Keep
>>46015110
This is quite obviously sarcasm.
>>46015549
Like I said, I cant even tell anymore
>>46015278
Except that now, game designers are going to look up to him as a model. Why wouldn't they? He succeeded vastly more than any one of them in recent memory. Clearly, he's doing something right.
In other words, his ideas are going to spread.
>>46015153
>I might be short on imagination, but I fail to see how you get adventure from slavery or progroms.
You are TERMINALLY short in imagination. Like, "how can you even engage in tabletop rolplaying" short. Literally off the top of my head, typing as I think without stopping, you got heroes who are ex-slaves (a fictional archetype), heroes out to redeem themselves who were involved in the slave trade, villains who are still involved int he salve trade, intrigue on a plantation (a subgenre of Gothic literature), helping slaves rebel against their masters, smuggling slaves away from their masters, an investigation involving questioning the slaves who see all but are dismissed by all, a character backstory involving escape from/participation in a pogrom, family members threatened by pogroms, the villain planning to use the chaos of one in order to perform a dastardly deed, an important character being killed off in one.
*stopping typing*
Now, on a different note: can you seriously not see other dramatic roles for Jews other than "victims of a pogrom"? What about the numerous Jewish scholars of the period? What about the Jewish mystics of "The Golem"? What about the Jewish villain of The Merchant of Venice? What about Jewish conspiracies? What about the tragic stories of the Jews being forced out of Spain, and the clever heroes who defended them? What about the Jews who lived in hiding? What about the entire fucking mythos of Jewish diaspora stories from Russia alone? What about the ancient history and magical folklore of Jews?
>>46015884
The minor: How would a jewish scholar differ from one of another faith? I honestly fail to see the difference, "Scholar" takes presedence over whatever faith they might have.
The major: Thank you for illuminating me, I can now more clearly see where you're coming from.
>>46015884
Also, before you get triggered by and go all
>Jewish Conspiracy
Consider the game you're playing. this is a setting in which there is a literal, honest-to-Theus FEMINIST CONSPIRACY and the church has got an order of magical assassins running about killing people who disagree with them, who are in turn opposed by the order of Illuminati scientists. This kind of craziness just fits within the genre, nobody takes it seriously. If you want to be extra-respectful towards the Jews, go the Sophia's Daughter route and say that they're only doing this because King Solomon entrusted them with terrible knowledge of an upcoming disaster they must manipulate the population in order to prevent, or something (the villainous Jewish conspirators would be members of the organization who have betrayed its ideals and perverted them into a powerplay).
>>46016014
>The minor: How would a jewish scholar differ from one of another faith?
It's tied into their faith. Rabbinical Judaism places enormous value on the virtues of logic (in the philosophical sense - the ability to make a logical argument is taught to Rabbis as a spiritual discipline and argument and interpretation of Holy Texts make up very nearly the majority of their time) and science. For millennia, Jews have actually believed that a "proper" Rabbi should naturally also deal in science, in a specific religious role in Jewish communities (the Chakham) is meant to do nothing but study useful subjects for its benefits. Jews, especially during the Middle Ages, have been big believers in the idea that research is meditation and science is a path to God, not in the "I shall usurp God's place" fedora sense but in the "if God created all things than I might better communicate with Him by studying them" sense. Scholarship, literacy and mathematical knowledge were all held in very high regard by the religion, leading to the Jews' relatively extraordinary dominance of the sciences in Europe for so many years.
When people argue that Theah doesn't need Jews because the Vaticine Church is already Jewish, this is what they're referring to. The problem is that Jews were more than that: they were a persecuted minority with secret traditions who lived apart from the Christians. This is why you cannot just replace them with Vaticines and Vendel and get the same dramatic result. They're a whole different thing, storytelling-wise.
>>46003010
i want to impregnate hertits
>>46016848
That's biologically improbable, unless you're a bird and she's got pet ones.
>>46003010
Newfag here.
Should i start DMing with this game? since its new, everyone will be on starting point.
>>46015153
Not only adventure, but also character and setting devellopment, reflexion on morality and ethics, or simply easy to grasp villains.
Why do you think nazis are so popular in pulp settings ? You don't have to try to understand them or feel bad for killing them, they're nazis. They represent objective evil.
If would have been the same thing with slavers.
Also, in an age of sail without slavery or religious conflict, you have to wonder where they find all those colonists.
