Previous Thread: >>45943128
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
>/cofd/ & /wodg/ Please something come out soon edition
Let's do a weird topic: What do you think would make your least favourite splat more interesting? What is the least interesting part of your favourite splat?
>>45982134
So how is the Beast: The Primordial rewrite? Anyone got the snippets we had on that?
>>45982607
Have more than a snippet and you can make your own judgements
https://a.uguu.se/tfodjk_BeastthePrimordial-CoreRulebook.pdf
>>45982654
Oh, thanks.
So this is out, huh?
>>45982732
No, that's the backer version. It's still getting edited and indexed.
>>45982771
Baller. Thanks anyway.
I like how it's immediately less assholish towards Changelings anyway.
How do I seduce an Ogre Seeming waifu?
>>45982855
Wrestle her to submission.
>>45982779
Was the original version assholish towards Changelings?
What's the smallest knife or other stabbing implement that will still be large enough to harm Lupines?
Is it wrong that I prefer the old White Wolf Mind's Eye Theatre system from the 90's over the newer BNS MET system of today?
One, I don't like metaplot too much (I know there's nWoD/CofD, which I do prefer, but to be honest, nWoD 1e had very little LARP support and CofD has none at all.) and while there is some metaplot issues in the Revised-era White Wolf MET books, the metaplot isn't too overbearing in the mechanics and can easily be removed by a competent ST. But BNS MET books are very intertwined with metaplot, sometimes even mechanically and while Vampire isn't hurt too bad, Werewolf has become an entirely different game from the looks of the previews.
So while it may seem heretical, I'll probably just stick to the White Wolf MET books for my LARP fix and nWoD for my tabletop fix. If 1e nWoD had more LARP support, or hell, even CofD had any LARP support, I would probably be running that for an upcoming World of Darkness LARP, but instead I have opted to run an easier and more accessible Classic World of Darkness LARP that is metaplot-neutral like V20.
As for the venue, I am thinking of starting with Vampire, but I have also considered Werewolf. For a first-time LARP ST, which would be easier? I've run both on tabletop, but I know LARP is a whole different ball game.
So, where should I start? Laws of the Night or Laws of the Wild? I own both on hard copy by the way.
>>45982952
If it's silver, a pocket knife could really hurt a Lupine, otherwise use something like a machete or kukri.
>>45982134
>What do you think would make your least favourite splat more interesting?
With Beast, massively fucking tone down the "we're everyone's family" angle, and make them genuine fucking monsters. Like, having an alternate form and everything.
>Least interesting part of your favorite splat
Fucking Consilium politics.
Whenever it's relevant, it's always because the Thearch is being a tyrannical fucking cockbag and for some reason everyone's okay with that.
>>45983063
>Whenever it's relevant, it's always because the Thearch is being a tyrannical fucking cockbag and for some reason everyone's okay with that.
I dunno, anon. I can see it becoming interesting if it goes the other way, too: the Thearch is a stoner who spends half his time on "entheogenic" drugs, and doesn't put much effort into ruling, so everyone below him has turned into a backbiting morass of cliques. How'd be become Thearch in the first place? Because he has stupidly powerful magic, and he's played the "wise old mentor" schtick well enough enough times that his assorted students fill a lot of the major roles in the Consilium (and they're all pretty strong, too).
Alternately, "Oh, shit, the old [insert position here] died! Time for people to start politicking with each other on who's going to fill his boots!"
So, any WoD LARP'ers around here?
>>45982949
In a subtle, abusish ways, yeah. It's not a thing you'd probably pick up much on unless you're a victim of abuse yourself, but since that's the metaphor they're going for with Changeling...
It probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way so much if they didn't keep treating Beasts like the best thing since sliced bread who everyone loved for basically no reason.
I've been told that Mind Arcana is the most broken one?
Is it so and if it is, can someone give several examples of it being broken?
>>45983362
In 1e?
Practically every spell is Subtle, meaning you can cast all day, every day without breaking a sweat or risking Paradox.
Plus all the crap related to using Magic to borrow skills from Astral Space, over which the Arcanum had massive control.
>>45983231
They really don't treat Beasts like that. No more than Vampires go on and on about how they're Gods.
Anyway, I am kind of a victim of abuse. I don't remember what Beast originally said about changelings, though. Other than the fact that Beasts are more like True Fae.
>>45983362
In 1e Mind tended to be used for a lot of things that it really shouldn't have been necessary for, and it was able to do things that were Vulgar in other Arcana. For instance, one that comes up often is Psychic Sword. Now, it's true that damage spells aren't really all that great... but Psychic Assault was able to do Covert damage with no visible source. You could also rewrite your character sheet, and as >>45983382 points out EVERYTHING was Subtle, essentially treating "Vulgar" as "has visible effects" instead of "grossly rewrites reality". Except that Fate was Vulgar as hell even though it didn't do more than nudge probability.
Meanwhile you also had Mind spells that ignored the usual Practice/Arcana restrictions. And spells like Diplomat's Protection, which prevents anyone with Resolve lower than the Potency from attacking you... which with ritual casting could be something like 30.
>>45983043
What's the best place to stick them?
>>45983415
In a fire.
>>45983448
Does that actually work? I thought it only really worked on the Vamps.
>>45983607
Fire harms all supernatural beings.
>>45983651
Fire does bashing damage though, right? Not gonna stop a werewolf for long
>>45983651
Then won't the flaming wolf be a huge danger to you in the several turns before it actually dies?
>>45983208
Yeah, UT.
>>45982991
I'm not really big on Werewolf, so I can't give a lot of comments there, but I'm curious what you find 'mechanically' tied to the metaplot?
I've been running a Masquerade LARP using BNS MET for almost 3 years now and we use our own altered setting from the BNS default, and we haven't found anything that is mechanically tied to the metaplot (we had a player who read the book, and only skimmed our game timeline, and so referenced a couple of events that happened that we didn't use), but overall nothing in BNS MET is mechanically tied to metaplot that I can really point to. The only thing I can think of is the Rarity, but at that point it's REALLY simple to rearrange the rarity merit costs.
If you are really set on using Laws, I'd say see what your prospective players are interested in; present them both options. Vampire probably has less overhead, especially depending on the size of the LARP you're expecting. I'll be putzing around today, feel free to post, I'd love to discuss LARP with someone here.
>>45983208
Yup. Run a troupe Masquerade game using BNS (running for almost 3 years now, of a 5 year planned chronicle) and do MES Lost (though I'm swinging away from that).
>>45983657
Fire does lethal normally. I don't know if Werewolves have any special rules for it or not, but using core CofD rules it's lethal. You're probably thinking of electricity.
>>45983956
Do you think renting a roman style villa and going all togas and tunics would do for a good vamp larp? Would be quite cheap in most of euroland
>>45984698
I think it'd be fine, as long as you're going for that type of period event or having the modern vampires host some Roman bacchanal for a party or something. Anything that helps out on immersion is good, but make sure you have more than just one large room area; breakout space is extremely necessary.
So I'm going for a character who basically has the power of CASH MONEY.
So far I have 5 points in resources and some contacts.
How do I get more Lodsamoney beyond the 5 point limit? Because I'm aiming for 'can buy nuclear weapons without it dipping his accounts' levels of money if possible.
Megacorp amounts of dollah.
>>45982134
>What do you think would make your least favourite splat more interesting?
Readjusting the general power levels so Sin-Eaters aren't preposterously, ludicrously overpowered compared to the shit they go up against. Also better editing and coherent theming.
What is the least interesting part of your favourite splat?
...I'll have to think about this one, honestly. The only issues I've ever had with Mage are "STs who think taking away your ability to cast is a good way to balance challenges".
>>45984883
They've hinted that you're supposed to achieve this with Advanced and Epic Merits. So basically just Advanced Resources is being a 1% and then Epic Resources means you're one of the richest people on Earth.
>>45982607
It's worse, in many ways. The original had really weird themes, but after the rewrite it's just bland and lacks direction. Kinda like Geist, but without the nice aesthetics.
>>45984883
5 dots is the max. A nuclear weapon probably has an availability of 5 dots.
All that means is you can only buy 1 nuke per chapter.
>>45984883
GM fiat currency
>>45983362
>I've been told that Mind Arcana is the most broken one?
In 1e? It isn't. People think it's the most broken Arcanum because almost none of its spells are Vulgar, but that would only be a problem if Paradox actually mattered in 1e rules, which it doesn't.
>can someone give several examples of it being broken?
Diplomat's Protection, which is preposterously busted and doesn't even follow the rules for the Mind Arcanum.
The real broken Arcana are Time and Fate, especially when used together.
>>45984907
>>45984883
You'd also need status within governments to circumvent restrictions and avoid awkward tax questions
>>45984907
Damnit, only one nuke per chapter? How am I supposed to work under such conditions.
How do I get some home grown terrorists who can spend all their time in my basement making dirty bombs for me?
>>45984924
Well the character is basically a cult leader with some of his cult being in the government and an iron-clad grip on the balls a small city.
In a game that has a worldwide scope (Which is the reason its less absurd)
Bigger than Jim Jones and so on. So I have places I could hide such weapons if need be and the local police aren't going to go looking for them, or will warn me if larger groups are hinting interest.
>>45984907
Honestly, nuclear weapons is the kind of item I wouldn't allow players just to say "I get this, because I have maxed out resources, contacts, and allies".
It's enough of a game-changer that it ought to be a story behind it.
>>45984949
do you honestly think the FBI(if you're in the US), CIA, etc. etc. are going to allow a cult of religious fanatics to acquire a nuclear warhead? That's like, the one scenario pretty much every intelligence agency in the entire western world is keen on preventing above everything else.
Hope you got tons o' supernatural bullshit to protect yourself.
>>45985117
Just get an Obrimos on the payroll and have them make you nukes
>>45985140
I think Moros would be better. Since they, you know, can make the fissile material.
Unless, of course, you are talking about an archmaster obrimos.
>>45985140
At least in 1e, creating a Nuke requires archmastery, Forces 6.
It's not like Forces archmasters are readily available, and even if they were, according to Imperial Mysteries, it would be a breach the Pax Arcana.
>>45982134
All right, so I didn't check on anything CoD related since August, what's new? What do we know about Deviant? When is the second edition of Mage? And did they make Beast bearable to read?
>>45983413
> They really don't treat Beasts like that.
As we're talking about the original write-up: yes, they do. Beasts have been inserted into every other splat's background as "older siblings", every time other splats are mentioned it's always in the context of how cool and unique and incapable of doing wrong they consider beasts to be, they torment everyone because they're perfect übermenschen who have the divine mandate to anything they want to lowly mortals, they can permanently remove people's souls by being too cool to compare, and their adversaries are all mean losers that the ST ought to show for being baddie baddies who wear fedoras. Christ, just remembering how bad it was is painful.
>>45985117
Push comes to shove I can always stockpile mustard gas for the future and unleash it on a few population centers via crop sprayers to cover my tracks.
Or, more likely, I could just buy some land and start building a nuclear power plant then use that as cover for buying nuclear materials.
We're religious fanatics but its very under cover, meanwhile the business aspect is right out in the open and covers a shitload of different businesses.
>>45985173
2e doesn't differentiate between energy types, right?
>>45982952
> fury
More like "furry" amirite?
>>45985191
So? A nuke is more than just a flash of high-energy light.
It's a continuous reaction.
>>45985181
>what's new?
Changeling looks dope, so i'm told.
>What do we know about Deviant?
Loswest power leveel besides Hunter. that's it.
>When is the second edition of Mage?
Right after Wraith20.
>And did they make Beast bearable to read?
Yeah, it's fine now, if a little boring.
>>45985191
In 2e, Forces can probably manipulate radiation at lower levels than 1e, but a nuclear explosion might still require Forces 6 according to the reasoning in Imperial Mysteries..
We really don't yet know the full scope of Forces in 2e, and Dave probably won't update the Imperial Arcana any time soon.
>>45985214
Why are CofD players obsessed with power levels yet gush over micro-templates which are basically just Mortals+?
>>45985181
>What do we know about Deviant?
Not much. The lid is being kept on, so that we'll get lots of delicious information when the KS hits.
>>45985250
>obsessed
That's seriosuly all he's told us
>>45985210
Think of the Arcana as metaphysical classifications rather than through the lens of Fallen/Mundane science, and then apply the appropriate Practices (which should actually correspond properly in 2e).
>>45985214
> Loswest power leveel besides Hunter
That'll either be refreshing after the last three splats or will become "why not just go Hunter" tier. Here's to hoping that the subject of body alteration will be sufficiently covered.
> Right after Wraith20.
Wraith 20 is in 2021, so another eleven years until Mage?
> it's fine now, if a little boring
Wow, now that's something.
>>45985254
> when the KS hits
Which will be approximately when?
>>45985281
Yes, and thus a nuclear reaction would have to be the practice of Dynamics.
>>45985302
>Which will be approximately when?
Perhaps this year?
>>45985173
Why not just rely on matter to provide equipment and resources and then do the rest in the old-fashioned way? Hell, forget matter, just use whatever arcana is most convenient to gather secrets necessary for building nukes and then do whatever you like without disturbing any magic treaties or coming into conflict with mundane authorities.
>>45985341
I can certainly see how a nuclear explosion might be possible with a Forces 5 Making effect.
I would be interested in hearing a final ruling from Dave.
>>45983063
> make them genuine fucking monsters. Like, having an alternate form and everything
> implying being an otherkin isn't enough
:^)
>>45985453
Original poster here, sadly I'm not a mage.
So most likely I'll just buy up a weapons plant and a nuclear power plant separately and quietly channel gear away from the area.
>>45985453
Building nukes will cause *serious* problems with mundane intelligence, law enforcement and military authorities. If magic is used in any way, it would be a threat to the entire supernatural community and might also be a violation of the Pax (among other rules and customs).
Attempting to build nukes would effectively make you a supernatural terrorist, and you will be treated with extreme prejudice as a clear and present danger.
>>45985493
No. You'll create one pulse of it. A flash of high-energy light, is all.
To make a nuclear explosion, each neutron created in the fission will have to strike more atom cores, and split them as well. This is more complicated than mere Making, this is Dynamics.
>>45985550
Also, admittedly what I mainly want/need is an EMP device that can cover a nice, wide area.
Something that can throw an entire town back to the dark ages for a few hours or a day.
But being able to crush your enemies with acts of nuclear terrorism is a nice second.
>>45985613
That's just wide-area Forces Making. Create a powerful electro-magnetic field.
>>45985582
Your thinking in terms of science, not supernal symbolism and metaphysics.
Although I'm not certain it's possible before archmastery in Forces, a nuclear explosion is just a combination of kinetic energy, heat and radiation.
>>45985550
> not a mage
Who, then? Mortals can just forget about nukes, it's too much trouble, since it's more logistics than money.
>>45985579
> Building nukes will cause *serious* problems with mundane intelligence, law enforcement and military authorities
Exactly how, if they aren't informed of that?
> a supernatural terrorist
So pretty much a normal member of the supernatural community?
>>45985613
Why not just destroy energy infrastructure?
>>45985649
> supernal symbolism and metaphysics
Pffft. If you're thinking of that, then the answer is no, nobody below the rank of archmage can blow up a nuke, period.
>>45985649
Yeah. But Making creates one wave of things. If you Make fire, but it has nothing to burn, it will vanish when it's energy is spent.
Making a nuclear reaction is simple. That ought to be Forces 3-ish. But making them chain to the correct level is archmastery.
Honestly, just making a city-wide explosion is simpler.
>>45985550
You don't just purchase and/or build a nuclear power plant and weapons factory like you buy a television. The process is very long, arduous, requires numerous approval and permits, is very public and involves significant ongoing scrutiny, particularly if capable of producing weapons grade radioactive materials or producing WMD's.
What would someone with 5 in all attributes be like?
>>45985702
Let me consult with the mirror.
>>45985691
That's not how the Practices or Arcana work. They are not limited by our understanding of science at all.
>>45985752
Something tells me you're just being defensive over your ignorance of the sciences.
>>45985752
Perhaps then you shouldn't try to imitate Science by making a nuclear explosion, and just make a conventional big one instead?
>>45985677
>Exactly how, if they aren't informed of that?
if you think you're not being watched then you've already failed my friend.
>>45985771
You don't need to know science, you need to know magic
>>45985749
So if I Forge Tulpa with 5 in everything, I'll get you?
Does the armor / damage boost have a limit like Attributes, or can they go up forever?
Why can't I give it skills, what does it roll?
>>45985796
My CIA informant told me I was off the grid for the last three months.
>>45985804
See, you're just proving my point.
>>45985823
> So if I Forge Tulpa with 5 in everything, I'll get you?
Only if the tulpa also has the striking looks merit at two dots.
> can they go up forever?
This, technically, but there are typically limiters for any power that can influence these parameters.
>>45985771
Your playing a horror RPG about modern wizards while complaining that knowledge of the sciences is paramount. Sigh...
To quote DaveB from a few days ago:
"The Supernal World laughs at Science, until Science hides in the corner and cries."
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/45896030/#45904637
>>45985823
>Why can't I give it skills, what does it roll?
I'm not familiar with the rules for Tulpas specifically, but if it doesn't have skills, it's probably also using simplified attributes aka Power/Finesse/Resistance
In which case, it rolls attribute+attribute for nearly everything.
>>45985898
You ignore physics, but don't ignore psychology, despite the latter being defined by the former. The only response I can give to this is shrug and hope that you will get it on your own one day.
> To quote DaveB from a few days ago:
That's a stupid quote from a man who doesn't know how science works or what it is. And yes, I'm still mad about Ascension.
>>45985933
>Successes are allocated to construct the tulpa’s Mental, Physical and Social Attributes (to a maximum of the mage’s Prime dots in any single Attribute; at least one dot must be placed in every Attribute)
Huh, I guess it does read like that.
Sweet
I'm joining a CtL game where the other 3 players are Wizened of various professions trying to create an entitlement based around a craftsman's guild.
My only experience of Changeling is reading the generals and the core rulebook. My idea is to play a Wizened Brewer Spring Courtier who's trying to brew bottled emotions related to Spring: desire, inspiration etc. Is this an ok idea and is it possible in CtL?
>>45986028
Yes.Ye.
>>45985979
>Mental, Physical and Social Attributes
If it's using those, then no, it isn't using Simplified Attributes. That would explicitly be JUST Power/Finesse/Resistance, nothing else.
I dunno what to tell you.
>>45985979
>>45986087
fugg
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVVVEEEEE
WE NEED ANSWERS!!!
>>45985977
>That's a stupid quote from a man who doesn't know how science works or what it is. And yes, I'm still mad about Ascension.
maybe a game about wizards & magic isn't for you?
>>45985977
Given you comment about Ascension, you obviously don't care for Awakening's setting where the laws and capabilities of magic are not constrained or limited at all by the laws of Fallen science.
If you wish to change the setting in your game, that's certainly your prerogative, but you preferences are entirely unhelpful in a discussion about the actual capabilities and purview of the Arcana as intended and designed.
I suggest you get a copy of M20, and the rest of us will continue to enjoy Awakening, a game of modern wizards using *magic.*
>>45986126
Or maybe you just can't process what I was trying to tell you.
>>45986129
I'm not going to pretend I could have a reasonable conversation with you.
—the point—>
your head
>>45986193
>Or maybe you just can't process what I was trying to tell you.
i don't fundamentally disagree with you on "you need archmastery to create a nuclear explosion" but i disagree with you on the reasoning. The symbolic power of a nuclear explosion should require immense magickal power for a mage to just conjure up in the first place, magickal power that's pretty much the sole purview of archmasters.
an actual, literal understanding of physics isn't necessary to constrain the Arcana.
So, how do you stat out retainers?
I'm thinking of taking a 3 dot retainer who is an old friend of my character with a touch of the second sight about her (Currently living on his couch IC)
How would I build her out?
>>45986193
Your point is that you're annoyed that magic is not bound by the rules of science in the Awakening setting and/or you apparently cannot fathom why or how that can be.
Since the science / magic issue is a fairly routine inquiry and discussion here and other forums, and most people seem to understand after simple explanations, you're particularly slow, dense, lack imagination, are a troll or just won't accept that most of us have moved on long ago from Ascension.
Enjoy your Technocracy...
>>45986331
See, you just can't wrap your head around what I was saying. Reasonable discussion: impossible.
>>45986279
It's not so much raw "magical power," which is really just Gnosis, so much as understanding the capabilities of Forces Making / Unmaking vs.Dynamics in Mage 2e.
Since the full purview of Forces has not yet been disclosed, no less the revised Imperial Practices, we're all just guessing on whether a nuclear explosion still requires archmastery.
>>45986297
>Retainer (• to •••••)
>Effect: Your character has an assistant, sycophant, servant, or follower on whom she can rely. Establish who this companion is, and how he was acquired. It may be as simple as a paycheck. He might owe your character his life. However it happened, your character has a hold on him.
>A Retainer is more reliable than a Mentor, and more loyal than an Ally. On the other hand, a Retainer is a lone
person, less capable and influential than the broader Merits.
>The Merit’s dot rating determines the relative competency of the Retainer. A one-dot Retainer is barely able to do anything of use, such as a pet that knows one useful trick, or a homeless old man that does minor errands for food. A three-dot Retainer is a professional in their field, someone capable in his line of work. A five-dot is one of the best in her class. If a Retainer needs to make a roll, and it’s within her field, double the dot rating and use it as a dice pool. For anything else, use the dot rating as a dice pool.
>This Merit can be purchased multiple times to represent multiple Retainers.
The 2e/CofD text for the retainer merit.
So, you don't stat her. At all. You might wanna pick a specific supernatural merit for her(probably unseen sense, if by 'second sight' you mean 'ability to see ghosts'), but beyond that and determining what her field is, you don't have to do anything.
>>45986364
Then explain yourself like an adult.
For instance, do you believe the Arcana and Practices must follow or obey our understanding of the laws of science, and if so, why?
>>45985898
>Your playing a horror RPG about modern wizards while complaining that knowledge of the sciences is paramount. Sigh...
That's not my problem. If you want to create a hella huge radiation burst, that's fine. A huge pressure wave, easy. Incinerating heat? Child's play.
But a nuclear explosion is something rather specific, and to create that via forces, it takes Dynamics to get the process to move in the way it takes to make it go to that level.
It'd be much easier with matter.
Chronicles of fagness
>>45986425
I'm not sure a nuclear explosion cannot be accomplished with the Practices of Making or Unmaking now that Dave has quite deliberately removed the game balance "speed bumps" in Forces. In understood the rationale for Dynamics in Imperial Mysteries, but am not certain it still applies in 2e.
I also don't see how creating a nuclear explosion would be a any easier with Matter since radioactive material, at least in 1e, had similar limitations to its creation, manipulation and general use.
I would be great if Dave addressed the question.
>>45986402
> Then explain yourself like an adult.
I'd like to, but I'm talking to a child. You don't even get the premise that I'm operating on.
>>45986525
>I also don't see how creating a nuclear explosion would be a any easier with Matter since radioactive material, at least in 1e, had similar limitations to its creation, manipulation and general use.
Didn't you just comment on how 2e is getting rid of speed bumps in the arcana?
>>45986459
You're late young man, where were you at ~7 hours ago? we were worried sick!
>>45986578
Yes. However, creating weapons-grade radioactive material, even if it is now possible before archmastery, is not the same thing as creating a viable nuclear weapon.
>tfw no Mummy group
being atamajakki is hard
>>45986575
Let's try this once again:
Do you believe the Arcana and Practices must follow or obey our understanding of the laws of science, and if so, why?
>>45986724
You've set the wrong question, m8.
>>45983063
>Like, having an alternate form and everything
But they do. You can merge with your lair, and thus adopt your beast shape whenever you want
>>45986763
You now realise that the whole lair thing was an unintentional metaphor for the basements the otherkin dwell and sperg out in.
>>45986763
Oh, is this new?
>>45985977
It was made in the context of explaining how cold can be under a separate Arcanum (Death) to light (Forces), despite that being scientifically nonsense.
I have a Master's degree. I am quite aware of how the Scientific method works, thankyouverymuch Anon.
This Anon: >>45985582 is right.
A Making spell can flood an area with so much radiation it's fatal to living beings in a few seconds (2e just says to use the Extreme Environment rules for such uses of Create Energy), but it won't make a nuclear explosion.
>>45985613
In this case, what you need is an *Unmaking* spell of Forces, to eradicate all electricity. And maybe just target it at the power grid, unless you want to accidentally kill any people caught in it.
>>45986752
First, answer the question.
Second, if you don't believe the question properly encapsulates the issues under discussion, offer what you believe is the pertinent issue.
>>45986807
Can you flood an area with rediation and blow it upwith conventional explosion at the same time
>>45986807
That's still a stupid quote that violates common sense.
>>45986815
My answer is "I don't think so" to both points. Have a good day.
>>45986829
What's the bloody point?
>>45986807
Prime 5 - Forge tulpa
Do they use simplified attributes, and if not where do they get their skills from?
>>45986297
There's a couple of quick and dirty stat methods for Retainers in the LARP version.
In NWoD MET they get 10 XP per each dot after the first, to a max of 40. That'd have to be tweaked for CofD.
In MET: Masquerade, they have pools based on their rank; their common pools are equal to their rank * 2 (so a Level 3 Retainer has a 6 for most things), and each level also gives them a specialization in a skill or a discipline. For skills, that grants them a +5 to that skill use (So something with Rank 3/Academics spec would have an 11 for Academics), and Disciplines give them up to their rank in that Discipline.
Both could be tweaked for CofD.
>>45986805
Been there since day 1. When you're in your Lair you fuse with your Horror.
>>45986803
Er...what?
>>45986805
No. If you can drag lair traits to you, you can eventually merge with the Horror, via. primordial pathways and gain a massive stat buff. Here I'll just copy paste the book.
Beast’s Horror has a much larger, more potent
presence within the Primordial Dream than others. The Horror uses the highest of the Beast’s Strength, Presence, or Intelligence as Power; Dexterity, Manipulation, or Wits as Finesse; and Stamina, Composure, or Resolve
as Resistance.
In addition, the player gains a pool of points equal to (Lair x 2) to distribute between Power, Finesse, Resistance, and Size as she sees fit.
Horrors have access to the Beast’s Atavisms (but not Nightmares, which require more finesse than the Horror can manage). The Horror can use any aspect of an Atavism — normal, low Satiety, or Satiety expenditure,
though the latter still requires spending Satiety.
Also, the Beast counts as always being in a Lair-resonant location when acting inside the Lair. When a Beast enters her own Lair (or a Lair connected to it as a Brood Lair) via a Primordial Pathway, she immediately merges with her Horror. She likewise instantly separates if she uses a Pathway to leave. The
Horror itself only leaves the Lair (barring Inheritance; see p. 234) when Starving or Ravenous, and no power can force it to do so in other circumstances. When merged with the Horror, the Beast cannot choose to use the low Satiety version of her Atavisms unless her
Satiety rating is actually low.
The balance to the Horror’s great power is its vulnerability; unlike dream-walking prey, it is wholly present in the Lair. If the Horror is killed, it and its Beast actually die.
>>45986829
You're a Master of Forces. Might as well get Biblical and have fire rain down from the skies while the earth trembles.
>>45985181
Deviant: The ********* is the next CofD game, in which characters are people who've been transformed into supernatural beings by the actions of mortals (usually conspiracies and cults, but sometimes lone Dr Moreau types or even themselves), escaped, and are now fleeing from / fighting for revenge against their creators or - in the case of self-inflicted types - conspiracies trying to co-opt them as assets anyway.
In gothic lit terms, it's the Invisible Man and Jekyll and Hyde game, but it draws on the thick, rich vein of source material based on such narratives that we've not really leveraged in a game so far.
Media examples of what would be good inspiration for Deviant characters are plenty of Cronenburg films, Guyver and other J-horror sources, Dark Angel, The Hulk, Robocop, modern shows like Fringe, Orphan Black, Sense8, the Netflix Marvel shows, modern adaptations of older sources like the last two british Jekyll series (the one by the Doctor Who team where he was a clone of the original manipulated by a conspiracy, and the current one where he's a 1930s spy facing pulp science-monsters) and Hollow Man.
You were normal, now you're not, and they're out to get you unless you get them first.
As most Deviant chronicles will have the antagonists be secretive groups of normal humans, the game's power level is pitched quite low by default, just above Hunter. We intend the antagonists to scale with the characters, though, so if you want to be the Hulk, you'll be fighting the US Army, and if you want to reenact the final act of Akira, we'll let you.
>>45986871
>My answer is "I don't think so" to both points.
You refuse to answer a simple question and cannot articulate what you believe is or should be the relevant discussion? Are you a troll or just terminally stupid or autistic?
Mage is a modern horror game about wizards. Magic need not be synonymous or consistent with scientific rules. That's important to the setting and themes of the game and actually one of the primary reasons why it's *fun* to play.
If you don't understand something so incredibly simple, it is you who lack "common sense."
>>45986803
S'funny. When I wrote them, I had two things in mind - the tunnels from an old horror novel called the Fire Worm, and Freddy Krueger's basement.
>>45987039
>Deviant: The *********
9 letters, anyone got any ideas?
>>45986886
I have no idea. It's a first-ed spell.
Probably not, and storyteller fiat.
>>45982949
Ugallu had the best quote for changelings.
"Changeling: I wish I could just carry you away. But that would bring flashbacks, wouldn’t it?"
>>45986807
Do you intend for the Imperial Practices themselves to basically remain as is for Mage 2e?
Deviant: The Freakshow?
>>45987100
Will Prime in 2e be able to replicate the 1e Tulpas?
>>45987039
What would bring a group of Deviants who don't share a creator together? Would they just draw straws to decide who gets revenge first?
>>45987100
Dave, which Arcana would you use for manipulating (or even just witnessing) Sekhem?
Fate? Prime? Life?
>>45987187
Probably the same thing that brings a group of Created together, being incredibly different from everyone and not as different as those assholes over there.
>>45987237
Does seem like it might step on Prommie toes
>>45987132
Yes
>>45987149
Yes, but they're called Eidolons. (A Tulpa in 1e is also the things that Mad Ones generate, and we changed it in 2e to avoid confusion)
>>45987187
Stuff that will become clear eventually.
>>45987202
Wait for the Dark Eras companion.
>>45987267
>Yes, but they're called Eidolons. (A Tulpa in 1e is also the things that Mad Ones generate, and we changed it in 2e to avoid confusion)
Also removes an unfortunate /mlp/ connotation, so i appreciate it.
>>45987301
>removes an unfortunate /mlp/ connotation
The hell are you on about?
>>45987039
I'm certainly intrigued, but I'll hold my hopes with me until I get to know more.
>>45987052
> a simple question
The wrong question.
>>45987075
Come on, if you look at the game through the lens of escapism, it makes perfect sense. For fuck's sake, there even was a 'beast hurts literal playground bullies' write-up in the book, I almost broke my face cringing.
>>45987267
>Wait for the Dark Eras companion
Believe me, I am.
>>45985702
>>45987267
Thanks for the Imperial Practices answer.
Do you anticipate any other major changes to archmasters or archmastery for 2e, or will we mostly be able update them on our own once 2e is released. If there are significant changes, will they be published in any of two (three?) announced supplements?
>>45987321
>The wrong question.
Then kindly provide the "correct" question.
>>45987321
Dave only wrote the Lairs section of Beast.
Complain to Matt, the developer.
>>45987462
And Lairs was basically the best bit of Beast, only thing that was original at all
>>45986693
Shitposting somewhere else.
>>45987401
Only in the physical category.
>>45987451
No. Deal with it.
>>45987462
My point still stands. It makes perfect sense for lairs to be the otherkins' basements.
>>45987470
I didn't like lairs, or more specifically the idea of them consisting of several chambers. It felt like a lethal theme park instead of the heart of darkness, so to speak.
>>45987470
My biggest problem with Beast was that there's nothing really to do or motivate characters, particularly with no real social splats. Hang-out with other splats, without more, was just pitiful.
Even the "teach people lessons" shtick was only added after the shitstorm of complaints about the Kickstarter draft.
Matt was a veteran developer, and although I didn't always agree with his choices, I never expected Beast to look like amateur hour at OPP.
>>45987547
Autistic. Definitely autistic.
>>45987561
I agree, Beast is boring. I like Lairs but that's pretty much the only bit I do like. Except the Mage crossover stuff, but that just makes them basically a mage splatbook.
I get they had like a month to re-write it after the original nearly caused a civil war amongst the fan base, but still the spooky wisdom stuff meshes so poorly that it's barely there.
>>45987586
> rationalisation
>>45987561
I can't see playing a Beast chronicle and I definitely wouldn't want someone to belly up to a Vampire or Mage game with a Beast character because immediately the game becomes about them and their 'uniqueness'.
Experience colors your perceptions
Having seen this, it's kind of how I picture non-werewolf members of the pack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czj7SyPNRto
Am I wrong?
>>45987632
>Autistic. Definitely autistic.
Thank's for the confirmation.
You can answer my simple question at any time or offer your own thesis as the purported proper basis for the science/magic in Mage 2e discussion.
Until then, at best, you have a neurological or psychological disability. At worst, you're just a troll with poor social and reasoning skills.
>>45987547
>>45987625
Beast isn't really even enough for a whole Mage sourcebook. They're more a fit for a small chapter on denizens of the Astral for Astral Realms 2e.
I just realized, Nonon Jakuzure might work as an Obrimos with Matter.
You can turn sound waves into a means of propelling yourself with Forces, can't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rQcdBQvE5A
>>45987738
im deffo getting my goofiest wolfblooded a paper-maché wolf head, which he will use to beg the pack to let him tag along on the next siskur-dah.
>>45987898
Do it, the looks on their faces will be priceless.
>>45987039
>Guyver
Hooooooooo boy.
>you will never have a qt Assamite waifu
Why even Jyhad?
>>45988132
Setites are cuter.
Is mage 2e out? I feel like it's a dead project
>>45988651
Mage 2e is in layout. We're in the final stretch before release.
>>45988614
>wanting a waifu that will swallow you whole instead of lovingly consuming your lifeblood
Truly disgusting
>>45985181
Just because you treat it as if that's true doesn't make it so
>>45985181
>What do we know about Deviant?
Outline
>When is the second edition of Mage?
Sometime soon.
>And did they make Beast bearable to read?
It'll probably trigger you.
>>>45983413
>> They really don't treat Beasts like that.
>As we're talking about the original write-up: yes, they do. Beasts have been inserted into every other splat's background as "older siblings", every time other splats are mentioned it's always in the context of how cool and unique and incapable of doing wrong they consider beasts to be, they torment everyone because they're perfect übermenschen who have the divine mandate to anything they want to lowly mortals, they can permanently remove people's souls by being too cool to compare, and their adversaries are all mean losers that the ST ought to show for being baddie baddies who wear fedoras. Christ, just remembering how bad it was is painful.
That's the Beast's point of view, they're dicks, it's not a factual part of the setting.
I think the beast part of Beast is that, like the Sixth Watchtower, we don't have to treat it as canon to the setting.
>>45988711
Hey, Setites can do that with their tongues. The also have objectively the most hypnotic eyes.
>>45988856
>The Sixth Path grants the Ruling Arcana of Spirit and Forces, and the Inferior Arcanum of Prime.
That is some fucking retarded shit.
"I am FireGhost, but I have no idea how magic actually works"
>>45987634
Beast is fun as long as you indulge in the crossover. Our group is all Beasts and we're currently caught in the middle where Vampire, Mage, and Hunter business overlap.
>>45988932
Still not the stupidest combination. you could have. How about one where where the only spells for the Ruling Arcana are Wisdom Breaking Points, Vulgar Magic or both at once...actually I'm not sure what Arcana you'd need to combine with Death to get the last one but there you go.
>>45988932
Spirit, not Death, man
Inferior Prime is probably intended as their Supernal Realm lacking the Truth and mana
>>45984883
You rang?
>>45988932
That's not what that means.
>>45989376
>Inferior Prime
>so bad at magic that it's barred to you from the get-go
>>45988907
Those are some compelling points, Mr. Snakeface.
Make with the Egyptian qts!
>>45989401
Yeah, there prolly isn't any other Arcanum that is worse in the Inferior slot than Prime.
>>45989559
You heard the man, start posting cute Sneks!
>>45989559
I'm not a Mr, but.
Oh, fun fact: the Followers also consider redheads favored by Set.
>>45989589
That's why none of the Paths have it.
>>45989683
On this note. Does anyone know where I could get background images of these without text or the clan/discipline symbols?
Here, by contrast, is a filthy Sabbat heretic. Death to the Serpents of the Light!
>>45989822
Forgive me, I didn't actually have a "cute Setite" folder.
>>45989862
Or, wait.
>>45989862
I meant the VtES cardback without an image. I think I found it though, google-fu seems to be returning.
>>45989984
http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/node/718
>>45985173
Creating a nuke isn't antagonizing gods, rewriting reality as a whole, or directly interfering with Mage politics.
>>45990609
Depending on what you do with it or who you give it to, it could very much mess with politics or antagonize someone.
>>45990909
Specifically Mage politics. The idea is that an archmage would be able to very quickly deal with the Seer/Pentacle war. And it's antagonizing gods.
Mage politics?
>I did not get paid thousands of mana to speak to the Seers of the Throne. The Seers of the Throne said I'm dangerous. And I am dangerous to the Seers of the Throne!
Seriously, though, I've been watching pretty much nothing but The Young Turks lately and keeping up with the political news and man...
Mage politics would be fucked. So would vampire politics. None of them could hold a candle to US politics.
>>45991263
mages don't really do politics so much as the scrabbling you see in science
vying over grants and money and trying to discredit and undercut the work of your rivals
>>45991263
In Vampire politics, the upstarts of Trump and Sanders would have been crushed by the establishment already. Although the idea of Trump as an Anarch is kind of hilarious to me for some reason.
>>45991420
>vying over grants and money
and interns and lab facilities and rights to look into obscure research
>>45991435
trump would be nouveau riche invictus, no bigger than an ancilla
sanders carthian
clinton invictus with promises to carthians and everyone else
ted cruz lancea sanctum scum
>>45989683
Ms. Snakeface? Regardless, your scales are looking lovely this evening.
>>45989862
>Forgive me, I didn't actually have a "cute Setite" folder.
But Setites need qts. It's a very Thulsa Doom sort of feeling.
Turn into a snake; get bitches.
>>45992231
Can Setites learn Dominate, if so...Trusssst in me...jusssst in me...
>>45991435
>>45991531
Trump is Invictus pandering to the dumb Lance. He's also someone who's sire stretched back to the Camarilla and has the big bux.
Clinton is an Invictus in the Carthian movement.
Cruz definitely wants to strengthen ties between the First and Second Estates.
https://youtu.be/GBDbGyv6SIQ
Russian Iceskater Obrimos Silver Ladder uses Ice/Freezing magic. Can make phantasmal ice skates to skate around and create magic circles using skating forms
>>45990609
>Creating a nuke isn't antagonizing gods, rewriting reality as a whole, or directly interfering with Mage politics.
You need to reread Imperial Mysteries, p.35. Nuclear Cascade.
Did Dave ever end the argument about Vinculum and Mage Sight or if Mages can feel insecurity
>>45993970
Nope.
Which vamp clan is the most thoroughly gangsta?
>>45993970
I don't believe Dave has answered the questions.
However, I would imagine that Mind, Life, Space and possibly Prime, Fate and Death Active Mage Sight would notice something is not quite right with a mage subject to a blood bond. Focused Mage Sight or basic Unveiling spells should then easily being able to confirm the "diagnosis" that the mage is subject to supernatural compulsion, and with minimal knowledge knowledge of vampires, the viniculum.
Mages should also be able to feel "insecurity," but given their very nature, including their free dot in Resolve or Composure, they shouldn't as a rule be generally "insecure."
>>45993970
Do you mean passive or active mage sight? Because the former one is in dispute, the latter is a no brainer as death or mind should be able to discover the blood bond.
>>45994275
Giovanni
>vampy fags thinking they can stand to the Mage-Gods
ayyy
>>45994313
Is Vinculum a supernatural compulsion or is it just false love? That'd be like saying Mage Sight is capable of seeing if a person is addicted to a substance.
>>45994319
Both.
Death can see vitae?
>>45994275
Gangrel.
>>45994313
>and with minimal knowledge knowledge of vampires, the viniculum.
that would take a lot more than minimal knowledge knowledge of vampires
>they shouldn't as a rule be generally "insecure."
this is stupid, please stop talking
>>45994351
>too big for their britches mage posters think they can stand to Kindred
Mage friends always operate under the assumption that any Mage has at least 3 dots in each Arcana and unlimted mana and prep time.
It's their Hubris and their downfall. Vampires are far more prepared and have seem far more.
>>45994275
>Brujah street fighter
>Toreador rapper
>Vetrue pimp
>Gangrel weapon dealer
>Nosferatu driver / car thief / running chop-shop
>Malkavian running meth lab
>Tremere priest
>>45994396
In 1E vitae can be created with Death 5 + prime 3 with an expenture of 1Mana. But it can only be used for waking up.
>>45994497
>Giovanni mob boss
>>45994457
Anyone can stand to Kindred. Vampires are never prepared.
>>45982134
>What do you think would make your least favourite splat more interesting?
I'm not sure. I could never get into nWoD Mage, though 2e is at least seeming more interesting. Honestly, I think it was the art, more than anything, that put me off.
>What is the least interesting part of your favourite splat?
Never bothered with the Changeling' dream-walking stuff. Just seemed...superfluous. Oh, and the True Fae themselves. They're a great conceptual threat, but if you try and actually use them they're either overpowered or disappointing.
I don't like the Huntsmen any better, though.
>>45994396
Its defiantly supernatural compulsion.
But the dispute was about if every mage's passive mage sight will pick up on the blood bond.
Geist question.
When using the elemental marionette manifestations, can you use other manifestations through the homunculus like you can through boneyards and similar? I'm leaning towards yes, but wanted to check if there was an official ruling.
>>45992666
Well, they can; it's not proprietary or anything. But their mental in-clan Discipline is Presence.
That said, they do have a hypnotic gaze with Serpentis. It's just that it doesn't do anything except paralyze people who make eye contact.
>>45992207
Thanks.
>>45992231
The Setites are probably the clan with the most intimate knowledge of the vice trade, at least.
>>45994731
The homunculus isn't you
>>45994453
I would imagine the risks of drinking vampire blood and other similar hazards of dealing with the more common supernaturals would be part of the rudimentary training most mages receive from their mentors or Orders. Mages have been dealing with vampires for thousands of years, and they generally record and share such information.
Also, the type of personality needed to embark on the journey to sign your name on a Watchtower, the significant power available to even a newly trained mage, and the clear mechanical benefits of the mage template, make "insecure" mages very unlikely. Just like anyone else they might have moments of insecurity given the odd and dangerous things they face, but as a "species" they are not weak-willed, easily frightened or insecure in themselves or their abilities.
>>45994457
Dude, splat fights are retarded as each faction purports to be displaying a certain individual as their "standard" while in fact both range massively both in applicability, flexibility and power.
Sure an Obrimos with decent Forces could roast a Vampire alive with a pocket lighter, or the Vampire could fight through the flame to blow his brains out with a shotgun.
And a Gangrel could tear an unprepared Acanthus's throat out, or miss becaue the Acanthus predicted it.
It's like fighting over which Superhero is the best, it gets you fucking nowhere, and there's no objective standard, so it's essentially pointless.
>>45994814
>species
Mage are humans. They're humans with powers beyond the human scope, but they're still humans with human emotions.
>implying
Vampires have been dealing with Mages just as long.
>>45982134
>What do you think would make your least favourite splat more interesting?
Beasts physically transform into their Horrors at low Satiety, adding a dose of body horror.
>What is the least interesting part of your favourite splat?
Decrees don't do a single fucking thing and basically exist because Mummy needed a y-splat.
>>45994697
>nWoD Mage,
>I think it was the art, more than anything, that put me off.
Nothing says I've seen through the prison of the Lie, know the secrets of the universe, and control reality with my will alone like a freckled adolescent riding a unicycle...
>>45994709
Of course mage sight would pick it, mage sight would pick everything
>>45994731
A mage could use better elemental powers than a geist
>>45994879
>Vampire could fight through the flame to blow his brains out with a shotgun
No, he couldn't
>or miss becaue the Acanthus predicted it
Yes, he will
>>45994898
>Vampires have been losing against mages as long as anybody remembers
Fixed
>>45994814
>I would imagine the risks of drinking vampire blood and other similar hazards of dealing with the more common supernaturals would be part of the rudimentary training most mages receive from their mentors or Orders.
You'd be wrong.
>Mages have been dealing with vampires for thousands of years, and they generally record and share such information.
Record, maybe, share, no. Also mage isn't a world wide web, information shared in one place is not available every place.
>>45994497
>Ventrue pimp
>not Setite pimp
It's literally one of their gimmicks, dude. Don't deny the Snakes their rightful place.
>>45994980
>No, he couldn't
Vampires can fight through fire.
>>45994980
>>Vampires have been losing against mages as long as anybody remembers
>Fixed
Except there's more and more vampires and still the same number of mages as there were 3000 years ago
>>45994879
But the same power that gives an obrimos the ability to do that also gives them a shield and like dozens of other abilities.
>>45994497
>Tremere priest
Lasombra priest. It's like one of their pillars.
>>45994898
Did you even read entire my post about the insecurity vs. insecure issue or bother to notice "species" was intentionally placed in quotes in the original for a reason? Sigh...
>Vampires have been dealing with Mages just as long.
Yes, they have, and so what? The issue was whether mages would likely know about the basics risks of vampire blood and abilities. All you've demonstrated is that vampires also likely know some basics about mages and effectively proved my point in the process.
>>45995018
You're operating under the assumption the Vampire has 0 abilities and powers.
>>45994799
True, but neither is the Boneyard or Oracle and both of those have clauses that let you use other manifestations through them. Oracle allows anything but touch based effects and hell the Boneyard even gives you a bonus for doing so, and specifically calls out Rage as one you can't use that way.
>>45994980
>A mage could use better elemental powers than a geist
I'm not asking about Mages? I'm asking a question about a Sin Eater power in the context of other powers.
>>45995018
Yeah, but how powerful is that shield, and how powerful is the Vampire?
An apprentice couldn't make a kinetic shield which deflects a close range Shotgun blast any more than they could stop a rampaging Vampire in a rage burning shitloads of Vitae.
It's all relative.
Until you get to the ludicrous levels of proficiency in an Arcanum, there are no hard counters.
>>45994814
Mages are a secretive group, knowledge of other supernaturals would not be freely shared. Let alone trained to every mage.
Also that Mage who was insecure just became a Mage very recently. I'm not sure how long ago the original poster said the person awakened.
>>45994980
Just Die, it people like you that angers the Developer of MAGE.
>>45995097
The Boneyard is you, though; it extends your senses. The Homunculus doesn't.
>>45995109
The vast majority of ages are secretive, not stupid, and certainly not isolationist. They use some rare, powerful and dangerous knowledge as currency, not basic information like the rudiments of survival as a supernatural being. Remember that virtually all Pentacle and Seer mages are social, members of Orders and cabals with access to their resources, and received substantial training. Some Orders like the Mysterium or Free Council even make it a point to share basic information in places like Anathaea or Lore Houses.
Dave indicated that most mages are considered fully trained within a year or so of Awakening. Is your argument now that mages can be "insecure" for about year?
>>45994275
Brujah.
Have you SEEN the art and writing for Theo Bell?
>>45995258
Yes it does, you can perceive through its senses and speak through it and everything.
>>45995099
>>45995018
>>45995012
>>45994980
As >>45994879 stated, "white room" splat fights are idiotic, and the results of any potential encounter between splats depends on the specific capabilities of the individuals involved, innumerable ancillary factors and a lot of dumb luck.
>>45995356
I don't think mages can ever be insecure
>>45995448
Fight's in which the mage always win
>>45995356
There are not enough supernaturals in the world for that knowledge to be rudimentary, further more most supernaturals keep to themselves on top of low population so thats leave very little information to spread.
On another note is it in your belief that everyone that has power feel empowered. Thats not so ture, people can feel insecure that they aren't doing enough for others, do they really deserve the power they have. So on and so worth.
I'm not arguing that every mage should be insecure just that it's not impossible.
Anyone thought about what "Advanced Mystery Cult Initiation" would be like?
>>45995933
Joining an Order.
>>45995627
Mages as a group are some of the most informed people in the CofD. The are considered the "detective splat" for a reason given their natures and abilities, and their society is intentionally analogous to academia.
Of course, this certainly doesn't mean they know of or are actually right about everything or that their knowledge is fully complete, but as a rule they constantly investigate the supernatural (particularly now that it's an Obsession in 2e), meticulously record their data and discoveries, and professionally and socially share information among their peers.
Vampires are fairly numerous (at least for a supernatural group), are generally well known to mages (and mages well known to vampires), and often occupy the same geographic areas. During the thousands of years of interaction, ranging from amicable and mutually advantageous to hostile, I'm confident that Pentacle and Seer society long ago internalized such rudiments as "drinking vampire blood makes you their slave" and "vampires don't like sunlight and fire." I would even imagine that many young mages inquire of their mentors if the myths and information about vampires, werewolves and other strangeness from movies, television and books are based on real facts.
Apprentice: Are vampires real, and are they anything like the movies?
Master: Yes, and I suggest avoiding them. Many are quite powerful and none can be fully trusted. Nevertheless, most of the myths are indeed true. Sunlight and fire destroy them, they can be immobilized by a stake through the heart, they need blood of the living to survive, and their own blood renders men slaves to their will. However, they do not sparkle.
>>45995933
>Anyone thought about what "Advanced Mystery Cult Initiation" would be like?
Awakening and joining an Order?
First Change and joining a Tribe?
Embraced by a vampire and joining a Covenant?
With respect to more mundane mortals, it might be acquiring the Sleepwalker merit and gaining low-level membership in an Order, joining a Uratha pack, or becoming a ghoul.
>>45996225
Your point is actually valid in that regards. Im actually rereading adamantine arrow about what they say on their interactions on other supernaturals, and last statement is very close to what the books says.
Slow thread tonight.
Anyone actively working on anything right now?
>>45996225
>>45996478
I imagine that at this point in time, except for a few particularly curious Moros, most mages find vampires uninteresting or boring. There are far rarer and totally or mostly unexplored phenomena and beings to capture their obsessive attention.
>>45996225
>The are considered the "detective splat" for a reason given their natures and abilities,
They're considered the detective splat because they're obsessed with mysteries, not because they set up wikipedia.
>>45996478
>Im actually rereading adamantine arrow about what they say on their interactions on other supernaturals, and last statement is very close to what the books says.
And DB has made it clear the Orders are changing for 2e so they aren't so stupidly written
>>45997082
He also said they are still using thing from the order books.
>>45997122
And that they're no longer global so they won't be sharing information globally
>>45997055
Are you actually suggesting vampires and related phenomena are not included under the extremely broad category of Mysteries?
Besides their innate curiosity, mages are the detective splat because their abilities provide tools uniquely suited to gathering information and uncovering these Mysteries. For instance, the Practices at Level 1 of every Arcanum include Knowing and Unveiling.
Also, Wikipedia doesn't even remotely compare to the vast capabilities of the Arcana or the thousands of years of information stored in places like Athenaea and Lore Houses.
>>45997082
The Orders are certainly receiving some tweaks, some Orders more than others, but nowhere has Dave implied that they're suddenly going to be stupid, ignorant or incompetent.
>>45997424
>Are you actually suggesting vampires and related phenomena are not included under the extremely broad category of Mysteries?
no, but you knew that
>Besides their innate curiosity, mages are the detective splat because their abilities provide tools uniquely suited to gathering information and uncovering these Mysteries. For instance, the Practices at Level 1 of every Arcanum include Knowing and Unveiling.
again, detective splat because obsessed with mysteries, otherwise mekhet are detective clan
>Also, Wikipedia doesn't even remotely compare to the vast capabilities of the Arcana or the thousands of years of information stored in places like Athenaea and Lore Houses.
exactly, because wikipedia is freely available for use, whereas y ears of information don't last two generations once your dead
but I'll concede that if your mage manages to trade enough to get access to a lore house and goes into debt with it, he can find out about vampires blood bonding people
>The Orders are certainly receiving some tweaks, some Orders more than others, but nowhere has Dave implied that they're suddenly going to be stupid, ignorant or incompetent.
they're being rewritten entirely. Nowhere has he said that they know everything and share everything, either.
See, I can exaggerate too, Not knowing about blood bonds doesn't make them stupid, gnorant or incompeten
>>45997408
The Orders are still most definitely global. What they don't, and never did have, is a central governing authority.
In fact, the Mysterium, probably the Order with the most knowledge, even has merits to capitalize on the global sharing of such knowledge.
http://theonyxpath.com/new-order/
http://theonyxpath.com/endless-wonder-mysterium-mage-the-awakening/
I'm really starting to believe that you either haven't read most of the Mage books or Dave's extensive Mage 2e spoilers or you just have a sense of your *preferred* CofD setting, and have convinced yourself that this is somehow the canon setting.
