What would change about magic if say the next set released all ten color combinations of expensive fetch lands except as $2 uncommons?
The entire magic player base throws a collective shit fit as their expensive collection of fetch lands went from four digits to $80.
>>45730803
I would laugh at bitter manchildren who invested a fortune on cardboard.
>>45730803
The big question is what would have to change in the design of current fetches in order put them on an Uncommon power level?
>>45730803
The manabase for my Commander decks would be slightly better. Besides that, nothing would change for me personally.
>>45730926
(1)[tap]: Sacrifice this card, search your library for X and put it onto the battlefield.
>>45730926
>The big question is what would have to change in the design of current fetches in order put them on an Uncommon power level?
Nothing, fetches aren't powerful in draft/sealed as it is.
>>45730951
t. MTGO player
>>45730951
Addendum: The real reason fetches are rare is that they are highly sought after; therefore, Wizards, a for profit company, made them rare in order to sell more packs.
People would find something else to complain about.
>>45731082
The only thing I don't get about the arguement of "not good in limited" though is why you'd scale something's power based upon a format where your resources are, you guessed it, limited.
You get a fetch in draft and it's a card that might as well be another basic. The only reason why fetches are solid in literally every other format however is because of their "x or y card" clause that allows them to find a card with the specified subtype. It's why Standard is so retarded right now: a black/red fetch can search for blue mana if it wanted to. It's lead to the use of fewer and fewer basic lands and the rise of four-color decks that are big in the meta right now.
In short: They're highly sought after because they have that much power, and it's the level of power they have that slams them in that rarity. If that's a hard concept to understand you probably don't even play Magic.
Basically, we'd have a rerun of the Amiibo fiasco.
>collectors, scalpers, and vendors desperately try to hoard everything they can in an attempt to limit supply and jack up prices
>Wal-Marts and other mass retailers see the packs fly off their racks because they're the cheapest available
>articles from SCG, CF, and TCGPlayer all condemning the scalping while also partaking in it or featuring stores that do so
>more articles from those sites and other major sites about how Wizards is trying to ruin Magic
>blog posts and articles from just about everywhere else singing Wizards' praises
>comment section flamewars everywhere
>some contributor schmuck at Forbes writes an article about it and quickly regrets it as the argument explodes onto Forbes
>every Wizards employee goes dark on their blogs and Twitters to get away from the cataclysm
>riots and fights break out at brick and mortar stores as they try to limit pack distribution so that everybody has a chance
>eventually makes U.S. headlines when somebody inevitably gets shot/stabbed/brained/any combination of the preceding
>>45731250
>The only thing I don't get about the argument of "not good in limited" though is why you'd scale something's power based upon a format where your resources are, you guessed it, limited.
Wizards justifies all of its rarity decisions by claiming limited balance.
>You get a fetch in draft and it's a card that might as well be another basic.
Yes and staying in the vein of limited balance fetches should not be rare.
>In short: They're highly sought after because they have that much power, and it's the level of power they have that slams them in that rarity.
Except, that power in limited formats not constructed formats is what wizards claims determines rarity. The only effect rarity has on constructed formats is cost since you can always acquire more of the card(while it is still in production); which brings me to my point here.>>45731082
>you probably don't even play Magic.
I do actually.
>>45731454
>>eventually makes U.S. headlines when somebody inevitably gets shot/stabbed/brained/any combination of the preceding
Has this actually happened?
I know there was a truck that was literally stolen because it contained a shipment of Splatoon amiibos, but I couldn't imagine someone would get shot let alone jabbed with a pencil over them.
>>45730926
For the Zen fetches it was because they had landfall in the format and wanted to limit the amount of them there is what i heard. Now as far as the onslaught land idk. That might relate to the Zens being rare because they would drop the prices of the older ones if the Zens where uncommon. The Onslaught ones rarity is a mystery to me however because fetch lands are bad fixing in limited but they might have though that they were better filter than the cycling lands.
If mana base goes to cheap levels alone, the spells cost would rise and in general, make decks costs more.
>>45731688
In comparison, yeah, but decks will for the most part just outright lower in value.
Manabases make up the vast majority of the cost of decks in constructed formats, which is why most decks tend to stay expensive when the actual functioning parts of it are inexpensive themselves.
>>45731688
Please explain your reasoning that if part of a deck got cheaper the overall cost would increase.
>>45731575
Not that I'm aware of, but MtG fans are far more borked in the head than Nintendo's.
>>45731750
When people have easy access to a part of a deck they are more likely to buy other parts. Look at the recent announcement of Eternal Masters, FoW is announced at mythic and every single card on the reserved list jumps by 20-50$. Sure FoW is going to be like 60-80 instead of 80+ but everything else just got even more expensive because they're not getting reprinted.
>>45731750
When every deck can easily be 4-5 color goodstuff, the goodstuff gets expensive.
>>45730803
How about this
>wizards puts high power legacy cards on reserved list
>wizards retools modern so that it isn't an abortion
>wizards prints modern stuffs (duals, staples, etc) at 5$ MSRP packs
>they don't limit supply as much as they did with Modern Masters (which inevitably killed the prices)
>If you want to make an investment, go jew legacy
>if you want to play a game, go play modern
>>45732624
I'd appreciate it if they also retooled EDH to not include reserved list stuff (I know sheldon and the RC actually decide that). I want to play a game but not need multiple $100+ cards to compete. At least in Modern there's only Goyf and Liliana and they're both reprintable (although wizards doesn't seem to want to drop the prices of either).
>>45732369
That only holds if 4-5 color goodstuff is the best deck in the meta and the only reason more people aren't running it is because they can't afford the manabase. Pretty sure that's not the case.
Fact is, pricey manabases are a prerequisite for competitive-level play. Everyone playing multicolor decks competitively, even just 2-color decks, is running loads of expensive lands. And while there is a fairly limited set of lands that are good enough for competitive play, the range of cards that make up the decks those lands fuel is a fair bit broader.
At worst, average deck prices will simply settle off back to around the same as before. There will be an initial dip in prices, which will draw in an influx of new players who couldn't previously afford the manabase for a competitive deck. As the competitive scene grows, prices of all cards (both spells and the newly-cheaper lands) will gradually rise due to the increasing demand. Eventually it'll settle in at a new equilibrium, but it's highly unlikely that this new equilibrium will be any higher than before. After all, the change is ultimately driven by an influx of people who aren't willing/able to spend big money on a competitive deck, and as prices rise that will stem the influx, and eventually start driving some back out, which will diminish or even reverse the price increases.
>>45730858
>>45731454
Fuck "collector" scalpers, magic is a fun hobby where a card should never cost more than 20 dollars.
Sad to see that this is the age where it's 100% justifiable to make proxy and counterfiet cards.
>>45732772
The existence of goyf as a mythic in two overpriced underprinted sets shows that the reserve list is not the problem, Wizards trying to protect people's "investments" is the problem.
>>45735238
People obviously don't agree with you as they do buy cards that cost considerably more. Perhaps you should rather look over your economical situation and reeavluate if you can actually afford a hobby.
>>45730803
I would finally get fetchlands
Also, I would buy a booster box
>>45736399
probably this
I would get me a playset of each and can finally play all the weird multicolor brews I want to play
I am completely on the side of "fuck the collectors"
I would welcome my collection becoming worthless and having more people and decks to play with
I am okay with the concept of rarity in a tcg because hunting/trading is still fun
but it got out of hand regarding lands and certain staples
fixing fetchlands with the proposed method would send a strong signal to hoarders and collectors to stop inflating prices
>my breakpoint for what a card should cost ist like 15-20 bucks
>>45732836
Breaking it down into simple economic theory. More numerous fetches at common and uncommon is a massive increase of supply which should lower prices and increase quantity. All arguing over demand changes is silly because what's being propose here is a mere change in supply.
Now long-term, who the fuck knows, That's not basic shit anymore.
>>45736599
Now on to decks, as people have accurately said, with the decrease in the cost of acquiring the complementary product being reduced demand for decks will increase, increasing the price and quantity of the decks other than fetches.
Sure there will be other factors involved that I can't remember off the top of my head but this is the most likely result. Unless the magic bubble pops, then I have no fucking idea what happens.
I for one would welcome the price of fetches dropping so I can easily finish my decks and get a set for cube.
>>45730858
This. As much as I hate it, the second hand market is not something you want to fuck with. Say we reprint all ten fetches as uncommon. Then literally everything else skyrockets in price to compensate. We would have like 200 dollar snapcaster mages.
>>45736276
People could afford it more if there weren't card hoarders.
Wizards doesn't want to upset all the fuckers who play Wolf of Wallstreet in a tcg so they accommodate them over the vast majority of players who'd rather have a non-jewish play experience.
>tfw you don't play any Constructed formats
>tfw you would actually be somewhat mad about uncommon fetchlands because they wouldn't be valuable as trade fodder
meh
>>45736581
Are you me ?
>>my breakpoint for what a card should cost ist like 15-20 bucks
Only for one-of
Cards that you need in 4 copies should never exceed 5 bucks
I own several fetches and I wouldn't even be mad. I don't understand why they ever made the dual lands rare in the first place.
>>45736581
>I would welcome my collection becoming worthless and having more people and decks to play with
As would I anon. I literally brought a black lotus 2 hours ago and if I found out right now that they were ditching the reserve list and printing millions of the things I would say dang should have waited a few weeks and then I would throw a fucking party that costs more then the lotus did in celebration.
>>45735697
I sometimes wonder how protecting investors makes them money surely the increased sales to these colecters is less then the drop in profits from the people it drives away from the game.
>>45737101
>I would throw a fucking party that costs more then the lotus did in celebration
This.
This all the way
The more I see how MtG players react to Wizards business choices, the more I'd like WotC to start acting like Konami with YGO, except without the stupid banlist choices and weird playtesting they do that let broken stuff go under the radar.
YGO has all the reprint sets in better prices, but the way the games shifts and design choices are made is what been killing my will to play it. On the other hand, MtG has better design choices and formats where the banlist isn't pants-on-head retarded but it tries to "protect the investors".
What if they made marginally worse fetches and shocklands at uncommon?
>>45739149
they already have those, they ETB tapped
nobody uses them
>>45735238
>a card should never cost more than 20 dollars
Your in the wrong game, that is YuGiOh's gimmick, not magic. Magic is collectors value and the secondary market scalping.
>>45739213
Funny enough, what I said here has also been said by WotC themselves. Hypocrites.
>>45739195
That's way worse. I mean with a very tiny downside.
>>45739287
like what? a fetchland that casts 2 life to activate instead of 1?
>>45739315
Something like that. It should be just as fast as shocks and fetches but slightly worse.
>>45739287
I want to see mono color fetches. Tap,sac: search for an island, Etc. Throw some taplands with minor effects into the set to make limited fun.
>>45740083
That is actually a pretty good idea
>>45739195
He, I like thoseMostly because I can't afford fetchlands
>>45736794
I have never in my life, ever, EVER read anything so retarded, and I probably never will again.
Take pride in the fact that you are quite literally the dumbest motherfucker alive. It's quite an achievement being the undisputed #1
>>45736276
Why does it care if people agree with him? If the plebeian masses agreed with oneself, it'd be a sign that you fucked up somewhere along the way in your reasoning.
You're retarded.
>>45731250
Are you incapable of thought about the kindergarten-level?
Why should more powerful cards be rarer?
Garfield said from the start that it's fucking retarded to distribute cards in their respective rarities based on their power - from a game design perspective, there's no real reason to prefer weak commons and strong rares over the inverse.
It's exclusively a method by which to earn money, and you're a fucking moron and so pitiful as to be beneath contempt,
>>45731575
Happened with designer sneakers.
I'm not kidding.
>>45732018
Are you trolling or are you really so stupid you don't recognize your false equivalence and retarded premises?
>>45737144
you're making the mistake of assuming Wizards exists as a singular entity and isn't full of mongoloids whose friends' (and to a degree their own) entire life (and savings) is Magic
>>45732624
Modern is a horrible format for scrubs, baddies, memers and morons though
>>45740599
I'm still wondering why WOTC hasn't figured out that they can make budget versions of cards that don't suck.
What I really want to see is a cycle of dual lands that are like "rocky isle: land-island, tap:add r to your mana pool". It's slightly worse than a dual land in that it's harder to fetch, but it doesnt violate the reserve list. It violates the spirit of the reserve list only if the spirit of the reserve list is "legacy playable lands"
>there are people that legitimately believe that in order to play a children's card game you should have to have thousands of dollars to invest into cardboard
Glad I found a good source for proxies that are indistinguishable from the real thing, I'm collecting all your neetbux
>>45741217
You do remember that Lightning Bolt was a common while Ancestral Recall was a rare, right?
>>45741630
You do remember the fact that there weren't any rares back then, right? It was as rare proportionally as rares are now, but it was made at the very beginning of the game, when the understanding of the game's winning strategies was limited.
Setting all that aside, "that's how it's always been" is such a brainless comment it boggles the mind. How is that at all a rebuttal of what I said: there is no reason to distribute cards' power according to rarities, other than pure consumerism.
>>45730803
>That Scion
He just looks so pleased
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO-aOdJLiw
>>45741860
>first of all, you can't have any bad cards
Seems like they've forgotten something
>>45736794
I woudl actually be more comfortable with $200 Tarmogoyfs and $100 Lilianas if the lands were cheap.
I feel WotC fucked up there. If everyone had perfect mana everyone would be a client for every card, instead most people buy a set of lands and refuse to buy into off-color staples because they'd need to buy the lands and it becomes prohibitive.
>>45744127
It would be nice if WotC figured out how to control card prices. I'd take chronicles 2 over this "well I guess I won't buy cards anymore" state of affairs. If they really want to stop counterfeits, make it so that it's not 2k for a deck. I'm not going to counterfeit a $10-20 dollar card, and if I just need a couple $40 cards I'll buy them all. I won't spend a grand on 4 cards, so I'll get those counterfeited
OP is a faggot for not realizing that uncommon fetchlands already exist
get your shit together.
>>45737016
>>45736581
Exactly how I think. Good to know I'm not the only one.
>>45744386
What'd you use to print those three?
>>45739195
They're not Modern-legal.
They may be used in that mongoloid format if they were.
>>45744386
But those have such a huge downside that you may as well play one of any number of dual lands that come in tapped.
How's this for an uncommon fetchland (who am I kidding, it would be printed at rare):
Tap: Add W to your mana pool.
Tap, pay 1 life, sacrifice ~: Search your library for an island and put it onto the battlefield.
>>45745018
It's even better in some scenarios. As a lategame topdeck when you want mana but don't want to take additional damage.
As a delayed landfall trigger that can still generate mana.
If you wanted it as an uncommon, it would have to say "basic island".
>>45745018
That's actually better than a standard fetch. You get the option to get mana while also having the option for a quick land grab at the end of their turn.
>>45739315
>>45739421
>>45740083
>>45741352
>>45745018
please use your containment thread
>>45730803
Might drop the value of expeditions by 5 bucks.
>>45745341
Expeditions: just like putting spinning rims on you '99 camry, you might think you look cool but everyone else is just laughing at you
