The antagonist is a forest/pagan demon. In the forest the Demon is virtually invulnerable. It was intended that the players try to lure the demon out of the woods.
The players: We just go in his forest and kill him. (Actually very untypical for the player)
I have made over NPCs very clear that this is suicide. They have not listened to the warnings.
Now I am unsure what to do. After the setting, it IS suicide. But I do not want a Total Party Kill
Kill your players.
Fluff it as them playing a warning tale from a crusty old fuck in a tavern.
You can maybe have a couple of them survive, but stupidity should never go unpunished.
Utterly barrage them with horrors and force them to flee
>>45582504
Have the Demon play with them, make it overconfident since they are fighting on his territory. Then narrow down the fact the the forest gives him his invulnerability and instead give him a loci or heart that if the players reach and destroy weakens the demon to their attacks.
This way the NPC's are still right, the players are still stupid for trying to fight the demon on it's own turf, but the challenge is not insurmountable.
>>45582504
Start a forest fire.
let them rest and get their asses handed, when the last one dies they all wake up form a collective dream, should help lol
>>45582504
Figure out what the demon thing is.
Don't make it instant death, but make him extremely powerful (+10 CR maybe) within the forest. Don't say "you all die," make them feel the pain, and realize that they have to run. Then make it extremely difficult for them to escape. Maybe a "tree step" once a minute and a divination showing him every living thing within his forest. Doesn't attack the players until they're at the forests black heart. Then have it grab one of the PCs from the back line. High attack bonus + rend. Show it chasing them right up to the edge of the forest, then going back to eat the unconscious but still living pcs.
Then switch back to the PCs who didn't die but went very unconscious. Have them roll to see if they stabilize. They'll be up at like... One hit point. Show the demon stepping out from behind a tree. Play it out. With an invisibility potion, survival and pass without trace they could escape. Punish the players for being stupid, but a) make there a CHANCE of victory. Some cursed tree that the demon is bonded to, some awful ritual (virgin sacrifice) to be disrupted which dismisses him. There's opportunity for story here.
>>45582504
Maybe some wise old druid lives in the forest and shows up to rescue the party at the last second. If they don't accept his help to escape, or they try to fight the thing a second time after being rescued, go through with the TPK.
>>45582725
Something like this.
>>45582504
They could see brutal remains of some soldier NPCs and meet a deranged madman survivor who warns them of what the demon is capable of. They can learn about the demon's invulnerability and a clue about his hidden weakness. Have a fight with some underlings or henchmen of the demon and make it horrifying so the PCs reconsider their strategy. Worst comes to worse just tell them OOC that the demon is immortal and its suicide to try to fight him in his lair.
I personally avoid just killing PCs with stats but some tables are cool with that given fair warning.
>>45582542
>>45582613
>>45582627
>>45582702
>>45582710
All of these are good ideas.
I'd also recommend showing signs of how strong the Forest Demon is, to give your players a sense of scale. Maybe introduce a squadron of soldiers who are hunting the demon, but get their asses beat. If there's some kind of monster that the players know is stronger than their current level (Ex: green dragon) show the massacred corpse of one just off the forest path.
Also, pic related.
Terrible fucking consequences are better than just death.
They're defeated, all have horrifying, fucked-up dreams, and wake up at the edge of the forest. One of them is now possessed by the demon, and sometimes blacks out and does its will. Another PC is possessed by the ghost of a witch who tried to bind the demon 150 years ago; the PC sometimes blacks out and the witch does weird shit to communicate. The witch ghost can tell them how to get rid of the demon possession, but the PCs have to figure out which possession to trust.
>>45582725
Don't do this
If its his forest then he is at no danger. Make it so he finds the attempts amusing. spend the next session playing a long psychological game with them only for the god to prove time and time again how pointless it is.
Hint at them that his weakness is a tiny pathetic defenseless creature deep in the woods. when they strike it down. just have it turn back into a full sized god just to laugh at them. Have it kill one of the party, just to bring him back to life. Prove that HE IS God in his domain.
>>45583023
Yeah, a really good way to make your players realize they're outclassed is to show something that would make them shit their pants normally, brutally murdered.
>>45582504
Just stop the game for a second and say "Hey guys, I know a lot of stories have the side characters tell the protagonists that something is impossible only for them to miraculously discover some kind of hidden weakness and win the day anyway, but that's not what's going on here."
Do an in-game message as well if you'd like, show off its power in its domain by having it wreck a normally powerful enemy or what have you, but sometimes it's okay to just strep out of the game for a moment and check that everyone is on the same page with what kind of story is being told.
>>45583023
The problem with the soldiers is that they look like fodder to make the pcs look more badass
>>45582504
You can beat the crap out of them without getting to the point of killing them. You can slap the fuck out of them and going full villian in a monologue about how you are invulnerable in the forest and how they were foolish enough to defy him in his realm. They can just start running at some point, hiding, or making time until, whatever, the sun comes out. But if he is also able to find them outrun them in the forest no matter what, let's hope they separate so you just have to kill one... Also start devouring the first one to die, or something like that, so they have time to run.
>>45585744
Never do this in a session. Maybe first day, when you are explaining your GM style.
![world-of-warcraft-xavius[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CgvJbtQ.jpg "world-of-warcraft-xavius[1].jpg")
>>45582504
>Now I am unsure what to do. After the setting, it IS suicide. But I do not want a Total Party Kill
Here's what you do, you don't kill the party.
What you do is you have them defeated, etc.. and then you take the "party leader" or whoever is the heart of the party and you essentially curse them to show the rest of the party a lesson or something.
Have the demon fuse/turn them into a tree and not the happy kind, but the kind that the person is locked inside the tree like a living stockade and they can feel every single beetle, worm, bird and squirrel burrowing and crawling inside of them. Every time someone comes to pick up tinder from their branches it's like snapping and pulling off their finger nails- that sort of thing.
Take the team tank or the cockiest/burliest one in the group and have the demon turn him into an immortal BOAR or something the forest demon keeps and then at every night he butchers and cooks the boar while he's still alive; smoked, barbequed, fried and then finally only dying when every part of him as been eaten... Only to wake up the next morning and have to do it all over again.
You know; Feyish Demonic shit.
THOUGH, ALL OF THIS IS REVERSIBLE.
>>45582504
>But I do not want a Total Party Kill
Have it kill all but one of them.
>>45582504
It surprizes me that they went to fight the demon when there's a more obvious solution, burning all the fucking forest. Or trying.
My players always come with that kind of plans, even against apparently almost harmless threats. They're pretty paranoic.
>>45582504
Armand, the party's rogue and information gatherer was snooping around the tavern, while everyone else was relaxing and enjoying a few drinks, and decided that he would learn more about this so-called "Demon Forest".
He scoffed at the very though of it, a Demon, so close to civilization? The very notion of it made him laugh! But what was truly strange, was that whenever he'd approach someone and try to learn of the "Demon Forest" the person would turn a sickly pale, and freeze up at the mere thought of it.
"No need to speak of such things, we don't need such talk scaring folk away" was the most common answer he'd get from anyone who'd dare even say anything, if at all.
But Armand had noticed one lonely, old man whom he'd not yet approach. The town drunkard it looked like. He'd have an easy time getting him to loose his lips, it seemed, what with how much drink he had at his table.
(Cont.)
>>45582504
It's so simple.
We just burn the entire goddamn forest down.
>>45585958
(Cont. Part 2.)
Armand had gone over and sat at the Old Man's table, and ordered a couple of rounds, with his own coin, and once he'd gotten the Old Man nice and talkative, he had carefully guided the conversation to the "Dreaded Demon Forest", again, the very thought of something like that had caused him to let out a small chuckle.
But once the Old Man had heard him say such a thing, his eyes widened, and the look on his face had turned to a horrified one.
"Young lad, you truly intend to go to that dreaded place? If you're suicidal, then go ahead. It's not like my warnings ever did help the previous adventuring groups, or mercenary companies anyways. Always, they thought they could simply take a shortcut through the forest, or take on that dreaded demon themselves, the fools." He muttered this with a sad look upon his face, as if he was remembering something important.
"Lad, you and your friends best stick to the road, less danger, might take you longer to get to where you are going, but it's for the best. Now stop questioning me and leave this old man alone".
Armand, now unhappy with the Old Man's advice, turned and left, but not before he noticed something peculiar.
Upon the Old Man's hip was an old sword sheath, and a shield lay next to it on the floor. An old and famous crest was beautifully decorated on the somewhat rusted shield, one that Armand could recognize in a heartbeat.
The Crest of the Knights of the Ebon Rose. An old and powerful order of knights, that simply vanished one day.
>>45582504
You're underselling your PCs. They're probably going to destroy the forest so the fuck has no place to hide
>>45585744
>Just stop the game for a second and say "Hey guys, I know a lot of stories have the side characters tell the protagonists that something is impossible only for them to miraculously discover some kind of hidden weakness and win the day anyway, but that's not what's going on here."
Nah that's awful, plain bad GMing since you're not GMing at all. There's plenty of more sensible solutions in this thread. Incuding some of your own advices except this one. It's good to say "this game can get pretty deadly if you fuck up", and OP should've done this, but now it's too late. It would ruin the whole story.
Forest Demons aren't scary.
I wanted to make a long post but it's late.
Despite Euromyths having forest dangers abound, it's never the monsters that are terrifying.
Forest demons aren't scary. It's the forest that's terrifying. It's that the forest demon knows the forest. They were born in the forest, molded by it.
They know everything about you from the first step you took into their territory, and you are alone in a maze with seemingly no end. And there's no one you can trust when people go... missing.
That old lady at her hut who told you how to get out of the forest, was she a demon? A witch? Is she leading you to the demon to settle a debt, is that why the shadows... the shadows are looking at you? The abyss gazes into you with dead eyes that are there but for a second, a moment of dread. Might you simply have imagined it?
Play the forest demon off as a trickster, a lurker, a force of nature. Not as a combat encounter.
They are not fighting a monster, they are fighting the very ground they walk on, the sky above and all life around them.
>>45586082
That assumes the demon isn't powerful enough to protect his forest.
>>45582504
Why don't they just burn the forest down?
>>45586102
>They were born in the forest, molded by it.
If I took of the Demon's horns, would he die?
>>45586143
It would be very painful.
For you.
>>45585885
While this is a nice idea story-wise and always better than killing them, I would not advice it. Your ideas are mostly pretty humiliating and boring for the PC, and characters love action and hate sadistic humiliation. A chase in the forest once they're defeated may be more interesting. I doubt anyone is gonna enjoy roleplaying how he's a tree now.
>>45585874
It's immersion breaking, but at least it's better than the "scale it down so they can beat it anyway" idea and much less likely to result in players getting shitty because they thought they were playing in a "the PCs never encounter something they can't beat in a straight fight" game and now you've gone and killed one/all of the party unexpectedly.
I mean you could waste everyone's time dropping incredibly unsubtle in game hints until they figure shit out, but the root of the problem here is that the players seem to be role-playing a game where the protagonists are fated heroes that always manage to come out on top and that's not what the GM is running. If they wouldn't take the option of going into the forest in character in the first place then it's more immerison breaking (IMO) to correct it in game anyway.
Strike a deal with the players.
Everyone gets to escape with their lives.
But only if they bring back something the demon wants. Maybe a village. Maybe a monarch. Maybe what they prize the most, just to fuck with them.
Show the terrors of what the demon can do to a single person first. The dark, visceral rape of the mind and soul. Make a nice handout (maybe out of vellum as that's made from cow's skin) and give it to the player who's getting fucked up, make it creepy. Get it muddy. Stained. With dark, dark blood.Use inked cow's blood from the butcher, obviously, not your own blood or a player's PLEASE DON'T DO THAT
Release the poor sod. His instructions are on the paper. Make sure he has every incentive to get the cost paid NO MATTER WHAT.
Preferably pick someone who's selfish both IC and OOC.
Demons are scary not because they fight well enough to get what they want, but because of WHAT they want. And that they don't ever, ever have to fight to get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THzgoCzzkds
>>45585958
>>45586036
Too late for that senpai. According to OP they're already in the forest.
>>45582504
>Pagan demon
?
>>45583023
Fuck, I forgot I put that show down
>>45582504
Doesn't the system you're playing include some skill to know about magic creatures or simply being cultured/intelligent? Make them roll that and outright tell them the characters know well that the demon will not fall only by the sword inside the forest.
If you do this, they may fail still, but you will not dissapoint the players.
>>45582504
Have him beat the ever loving shit out of them, and then leave them alive, broken, humiliated, as an example.
Do something really awful to one of the party members. Take an eye.
>>45582542
This is a good idea, make the people who survive have maiming injuries.
>>45586311
There can be pagan demons. What I wonder is if the demon is viewed as pagan by the overculture, as I assume "pagan" here is substituting for "other," why does the overculture believe in it.
>>45582504
I have fairly limited experience with pen&paper RPG's, but if there is no real danger then there is no real immersion or edge to the game. A GM that always lets his party win no matter how stupid they act is a bad GM. Use this as an opportunity to teach your players how to roleplay better. Just my 0.02 dollars
>>45586222
This works for roleplayers.
If you are playing with people who need a bit more... concrete... motivations, though. Well. Go for the jugular. XP. Every bit of XP they gain goes toward the demon, making it stronger. It makes sure anyone who cares about that type of advancement ends it as FAST as possible. This really puts a clock on them since the longer they take the more they lose out on, and the tougher the demon will be eventually.
>>45582504
>gm makes the bb invul
>wat do
>also im the gm
I'm sensing something awry with your cool story, OP. Something amiss ...
My knee jerk reaction to OPs question is to kill the PCs. Make it clear the myths were true, as the fight develops a true hero might recognize the danger the demon presents and provide a rear guard action as the party flees for their lives. If your PCs are just dumb people this entire plot of yours is probably directed at the wrong crowd. I personally love games where people actually die.
>>45586183
>and that's not what the GM is running
It clearly is since said GM is currently going out of his way to find ways to not kill them.
have you already specified how the demon gets its invulnerability, if not, make there be a few nexus points in the forest that they'd have to destroy to make it damageable and if they go for said nexuses the demon chases them the whole time. let them take out one nexus and give them a blatant chance to escape after a demonstration of how much they don't want to fuck with the demon (have it one-shot an owl bear or something.). From there they hopefully take a more tactical approach after some leveling up, later setting up expeditions to take out single nexuses.
>>45586089
Sometimes, bad GMing is necessary to handle mistakes.
Would it have been better to iron out expectations beforehand and get everyone on the page? Yeah, but too late for that now. Hindsight is 20/20.
Honestly PCs can get really retarded some times.
One time we were stuck on a door for 15 minutes checking it for traps when the trick as just to push it with a strength check.
Granted, it was our first session, but like 10 later we got lured into a trap and we fought like mother fuckers trying to get out.
In hindsight it was a pretty good laugh, PCs getting knocked out or dying left or right. We went out with a fucking fight and almost won.
Almost. But our Dm figured we'd give up after seeing the overwhelming number.
Oh dude, maybe have some minions or aspects of the demon to struggle against that are really rough. You don't devalue the main demon if they're put down, and the PCs run away scared and having not even encountered the full force of the demon.
>>45582504
Go with it for now. If it's atypical of the players to do that, maybe they have a plan to burn down the forest or do something else to reduce his domain. That's what I'd do.
If they are just being retarded, sorry, you've gotta kill at least one of them. You can't back down on this after all the warnings. Unless you can realistically make said NPC's tools of the Demon, who is actually really weak/vulnerable to THING the players have/do and he's just trying to bluff them.
Still though, I'm vting kill them if they're not burning the woods down.
