Discussion thread for Fate, Evil Hat Production narrativist RPG.
Held a retro-future dieselpunk space RP for a couple of sessions. It's pretty great with player interaction, since they really are encouraged to shape the world with you. It's great.
>>45531499
Masters of Umdaar was a great FAE World, released in the Fate Patreon and released PWYW at drivethru. It's technofantasy in the vein of Masters of the Universe. I really enjoyed the artwork.
I ran that a couple of times.
I was seriously thinking about doing a G.I.Joe/M.A.S.K. type thing with FAE as a follow up, but then I remembered M.A.S.K. sucked.
>>45532604
Pic related.
One of the few things I found below par were some of the included stunts were unbalanced with each other on the same page.
>>45531592
Did you shape it yourself, or did you do it alongside the players? I don't think I've seen an incident of joint setting creation like that yet...
>>45531499
SJW: The SJWing, now with less comprehensible rules and a more lackluster writing style!
>>45533466
>SJW: The SJWing
What's the problem now, did they include a paragraph saying your character can be whatever gender you want?
>>45533466
>less comprehensible rules
Holy shit, if you actually believe this you are some kind of retard, how hard is it to know "roll four dice with pluses and minuses on, add or subtract the result from your skill, spending these points on an aspect of your character lets you reroll or add +2"?Not gonna lie though, I had to skip an issue of that Fate fanzine because it was too SJW-y for me. I think it was the one with lesbian noir and how to not ~trigger~ players
>>45533499
>>45533623
I love Fate, but even I must admit that the writing style can be pretty poor. The 100ish page book could be completely summarized in a few pages.
I never got the SJW vibe from the game though, I keep seeing that complaint. Even if they are, the game is so great I don't care.
>>45534222
Yeah, I don't get it from the main game, it's just that one fucking Codex issue
>>45534360
I'm not even entirely sure what you're talking about. I've only read core, FAE, the system toolkit and Dresden. I didn't know there was a fanzine or whatever the codex is.
>>45534222
>>45534360
The SJW complaints mostly relate to the sample worlds and adventures, particularly the NPCs in them, a disproportional number of which are gay, transgressive, or queer, even when (at least according to some opinions) it doesn't fit and serves no purpose. The art also seems weirdly terrified of showing white men. It always has to be a lesbian black Muslim with short cropped hair, and she's probably chubby to boot (because god forbid they'd be accused of fat shaming).
Also, they're currently working on a toolkit called "Fate Accessibility", which is about playing characters with disabilities and is written by the writer of Feminist Sonar.
That's not even a joke. That's a thing they're working on right now.
So there's that.
>>45534496
Actually, the books have no problem with showing art of white men... when they're the antagonists.
Yeah, I know.
>>45534496
Ever notice how elves are over represented in fantasy art? Like there's at least one in every party, but their population numbers are low enough that you shouldn't ever have to think about them.
Its pmuch a political conspiracy to make my fantasies different.
>>45534486
There is. It's on DrivethruRPG, I have a couple of issues. Other than that one issue it's actually pretty decent, although I haven't looked at it in a long time.
>>45534496
Yeah, the art is pretty weird like that-
>Fate Accessibility
What the flying fuck
>>45534496
>Also, they're currently working on a toolkit called "Fate Accessibility", which is about playing characters with disabilities
Holy fucking shit, I remember that when Fate Core just came out, one of the first discussions in /tg/ about it had a detailed example of group character creation using the cast of Katawa Shoujo.
It was a sign. It was all a sign...
>>45534550
http://www.evilhat.com/home/tidbits-from-our-gencon-state-of-the-hat-panel/
>Fate Accessibility: Fate Accessibility is a handbook for bringing characters with disabilities into your games and players with disabilities to your table, using the Fate system as a lens for both. The project is led by Elsa Henry of Feminist Sonar.
>>45534550
>>45534560
>>45534572
What are you actually upset about here? That they're publishing a book that is for people who aren't specifically you? Is this a thing about controlling gaemer culture?
>>45534572
Also:
>Fate Accessibility is something I’ve reached out to hear more on, but at this point it appears to be an interesting idea of bringing both characters with disabilities to games in Fate, but also for making it easier for players with disabilities to play.
Just to make the point that this isn't an April's Fools joke or anything, that's an actual thing someone thought was a good enough idea to spend money and eventually publish a supplement on. Can't wait for Fate Racial Representation and Fate Gender Equality, so we all know the proper way of using non-white and non-male characters in our games and how not to offend our non-white and non-male players. Because those are totally things you need to read a book on, as opposed to, say, have common sense and not be a fucking jackass.
>>45534610
I'm upset because they imply I need to read their book in order to know how to handle disabled people around my table or how to insert them into my stories. Who died and made them the authority on that subject? Who died and said there NEEDS to be an authority on that subject? Can you imagine someone publishing a toolkit about playing Afro-American characters? Female characters? Gay characters?
This is all stuff that should be plainly obvious to anyone with the social skills to participate in a roleplaying game in the first place. Putting it all in a rulebook just demeans the subject people by implying that they're so different from "everyone else" and so vulnerable that if someone doesn't literally read the fucking manual on how to interact with them they'd be hurt by it.
>>45534610
>fat genderfluid triggered furry anti-cis shim mopbucketkin detected
>>45534671
^This.
One of my players is blind. We've been gaming together for years now. She's played both blind and sighted characters. Neither of us has ever needed a rulebook to tell us how. She's a human being who happens to not be able to see, not a pet that needs to be cared for.
>>45534671
So you're upset that they put information in a rule book for new players. Okay.
>>45534722
New player =\= New to human interaction.
Somebody being disabled has nothing to do with their ability to play roleplaying games on such a fundamental level that it requires a rulebook. It's a basic social skill, not a game mechanic. If you can handle disabled people in any other situation, you can game with them just fine. If you can't, than it's not a fucking rulebook for a roleplaying game that's going to help you.
>>45534722
Because being new to something means you need to be told not to be an asshole.
I'm finding myself agreeing with the guy who leapt right to calling you a genderfluid turbotriggered furfag HAES activist couchkin here.
>>45534572
>>45534610
>>45534671
>>45534705
>>45534749
I just hope that they stick to stuff like how to print braille character cards and advice on how to organize the table to accommodate wheelchairs, rather than remind us every three paragraphs that everyone around the table will inevitably be triggered by everything all the time.
>>45534763
>>45534749
>claims to already understand now to approach new things and not be an asshole
>be an asshole
gg
Tumblr has turned an entire generation of "Adulthood starts at thirty," asshats into an even less self-responsible "You can't say that because it hurts my feelings at twenty five," Douchefucks.
This is just a prime example of it bleeding into what was once an unspoiled lifestyle.
>>45534496
I was going to suggest it might just be a book with a collection of character drawbacks and disadvantages for people with no imagination since I'd actually understand the appeal of something like this, but I don't think its made by people who have even a modicum of self awareness.
>>45534867
I'm not seeing any assholeishness here. Maybe you should post a list of all the things that ~trigger~ you, or alternately head on back to tumblr where you can block people who say things you don't agree with.
>>45534722
>telling people what to think
>telling people what to feel
>implying people need to change something they enjoy (gaming) because they're not "inclusive"
It's preachy. People don't like being preached-to. That's the resentment
Well, at least we got through four posts about playing games this time.
>>45534920
Nobody cares about this godawful system anyway. These threads exist to spread tolerance-hate.
>>45534940
>Fate is godawful
shit taste and/or buttmad grognard detected
>>45534961
>Tossing insults at me instead of arguing for the system
Triggered.
I actually am running a DW game right now, and am going to evolve it into FATE as soon as the players are ready. We just came off a 2 year PF AP campaign.
>>45535010
Interesting. Evolve as in slowly change the mechanics or something else?
>>45535007
>no reasons why it's godawful, just "it's bad and nobody cares"
um can u not??!
In all seriousness though, it's a way better system for a narrative game than most others out there, and I recommend it for people who want a game that feels like a novel or TV series with dice.
Plus the system itself is so easy you could probably teach it to retarded bonobos, see >>45533623
>>45535072
change the mechanics. I really like the concept of Aspects
>>45535138
Converting moves to aspects could work. Why use DW as an in between though?
>>45535102
Why are you jumping to this things defense like Canadians jump to defend Bono
Yes, it has an audience
Yes, it has a decent system in place to drive story
Yes, it's incredibly easy to learn
But like Bono, if it were to drop off the face of the Earth, there would be a very minute amount of people, if any at all, that would truly miss it.
>>45535138
Aspects for characters are nice. "Everything has Aspects and Everything Is an Aspect" is pointless and excessive. Even the rules themselves don't put aspects on all the things they supposedly should (anyone remember the last time Setting Aspects were used in an example adventure? They're made a pretty big deal of for like two chapters of the core book, than they're never mentioned again).
It also creates those ridiculous situations where A Person who is Tall with Blue Eyes finds themselves Lost in a Wood which is Big and Filled With Birds who Sing Loudly, and there are already so many aspects on the table you can't even tell anymore what's an aspect and what's just a fucking adjective.
>>45535181
who's bono?
>>45535188
I mean Campaign Aspects.
It's like even the developers eventually understood that they fucked up with a system that places 30 Aspects on the table at any given time (between those of the characters, NPCs, environment, game, time of the week and zodiacal ascendancy) and just quietly stopped referring to it in hopes people would forget it existed.
>>45535181
By that logic the only RPG that matters is D&D, given there's not that many people in the world that'd miss anything else if it went out of production.
Anyway your point is moot:
-The rules exist, they're in print and are available online for nothing
-Even if Evil Hat collapsed tomorrow and the SRD was taken down there's enough print copies and pdfs hanging around for it to still exist. Look at how 3.5 refuses to fucking die
I dunno what your brand of retardation is but you should get it looked at
Ignoring whatever retarded shit the developers do, my group seems to like FAE alongside Savage Worlds, and I'm waiting for the Dresden Files Accelerated version to come out.
>>45535164
DW appealed to me due to its "soft successes" and general bell curve with the dice. PF becomes an unimaginative game of numbers in my opinion, and I wanted a short game where anything could happen.
>PF: Okay, you attack everyone and everything and you win again because no one has attributes as high as yours. Let me give you some more loot.
>DW: You strike the villain with your sword, but your blade gets stuck in the bone! What do you do?
So....trying some new gaming experiences and breaking some old gaming habits and expectations -- that's my motive. DW is simple.
>>45535188
kek
>>45535188
All adjectives are aspects the moment they have any bearing on play. Any aspects that don't have bearing on play probably never needed to be stated as aspects in the first place, and there are mechanisms in place to allow characters to change their aspects to reflect what is actually relevant to their character after some trial and error.
>>45535441
Yeah, if you go far enough that way Aspects just lose all of their dramatic distinction and the action used to Create them means nothing more than an action spent this turn for a +2 next turn.
>>45535441
>All adjectives are aspects the moment they have any bearing on play
I dig this definition
>>45535441
>>45535474
Which is to say, from a mechanical viewpoint there's nothing to prevent from turning the fact that the sky is Blue into an aspect, and than get a bonus from it. It is possible for a system to become so fluffy that it loses cohesion. FAE gets the balance just right, most additions to it in the Core book mess it up one way or the other.
>>45535260
I want to see what the Interface Zero Fate Core adaptation will be like; its official/final release has been delayed (a Kickstarter, of course) but I am still so fuckin hype
>>45535188
>"Everything has Aspects and Everything Is an Aspect" is pointless and excessive.
Nowhere in the text do they recommend to do this. The real issue is that don't tell you NOT to. Being able to stat up anything like a character, however, is one of the most flexible and interesting parts of the system, and when used well makes seamless and easy to understand gameplay, because you don't have to go searching for extra rules. Give it aspects, or slap a stress track on it, and the game already has ways for you to interact with, change, or defeat whatever it is.
>>45535654
i hope you like see much less boobies in the book. Because, for some reason, Evil Hat don't like boobies or "sexual poses".
hey guys I'm trying to run a RWBY game in FATE. Any ideas on how to handle Semblances?
>>45535752
Yeah, try getting better taste in faux animu
>>45533623
>>45534222
The writing technique is very similar to a choose-your-own-adventure paperback, which makes it painful to reference. They will delay topics to other pages, which doesn't help. FAE book has better structure and is much more accessible as a "rules-light" adventure. I suggest using their SRD. It seems easier to get things done.
>>45535735
Thankfully I'm not in it for the art. /tg/ has so many awesome art threads for sci-fi I'm not exactly low on inspiration.
>>45535752
From a quick glance a RWBY wiki, it says these Semblance things are unique to the individual.
I think an Aspect would suffice for permission to do cuh-ray-zee stuff but a Stunt or two might be more useful if you're trying to use this power for more focused applications.
>>45535735
pokay with this desu semphamilia, it gets annoying when there's tits in everything. If I wanted to jerk it, I'd look at porn.
>>45535474
You sound like you're agreeing with me, but the 'this' aimed at my post suggests otherwise, so let me hedge here; aspects lose their weight and importance when they're applied to EVERYTHING. Only treat relevant information as mechanical aspects and they all have weight by virtue of being relevant. 'Blue Skies' is a fantastic aspect that sets the scene for a meatgrinder of a bombing run where ace bomber Yossarian /knows/ the Enemy Artillery has an advantage; it's be more than fair to make it an aspect, BECAUSE it affects the action. In an underground dungeon crawl, Blue Skies has no business being noted as an aspect, as it has jack shit to do with what's playing out. ' Everything is an Aspect' is a pointless fool's errand; ' Anything can be an Aspect' is necessary for the game to have full flexibility.
>>45535888
i like my woman looking like woman, instead of boypussies. Thank very much.
>>45534496
>The SJW complaints mostly relate to the sample worlds and adventures, particularly the NPCs in them, a disproportional number of which are gay, transgressive, or queer, even when (at least according to some opinions) it doesn't fit and serves no purpose. The art also seems weirdly terrified of showing white men. It always has to be a lesbian black Muslim with short cropped hair, and she's probably chubby to boot (because god forbid they'd be accused of fat shaming).
The characters that recur in the illustrations in my copy of Fate Core are a couple of white guys, a white girl and some kind of cyber-gorilla. Admittedly I am kind of offended at the prominence given to the gorilla, because to my mind gorillas aren't appealing characters to roleplay, but I don't think it comes at the expense of white dude representation.
And if they're making a conscious effort to show a more diverse cast in their newer releases, is that REALLY such a big deal? Generic RPG systems have a proud tradition of terrible artwork that doesn't matter because you already know what the world you're going to play looks like. Why is it worth complaining if you get crude sketches of muslim lesbian witches instead of all-american space marines? It's not going to make any goddamn difference to how you experience the game.
>>45535997
Does it help at all that he's a kung-fu cyber-gorilla?
>>45534671
I think they deserve criticism for this, but I doubt they're really going to get much of it. What we're really going to get is people being OFFENDED. You can tell the difference because criticism is something that passes. It gets made, then we move on with our lives. Butthurt does not simply fade, and once this is released there are going to be people who insist on posting the PDF in every single Fate thread and acting like the system is somehow ruined forever as if shitty splatbooks were new and everyone was somehow forced to use this one. Put another way, you can discuss L5R or 7th Sea without people feeling the need to bring up literally every single stupid, douchey thing John Wick has ever said or done, whereas every single Fate thread has people whining about SJWs.
Honestly, I'm not even sure this book is as needless as we're making it out to be. You're always going to find /pol/ types who want to play Biggus Niggus, javelin wielding not!African tribesman on a quest for the Holy Fried Chicken Bucket, and one of the classic "problem player" behaviors is playing a member of the opposite sex and trying to bang everything that moves. But that only serves to highlight what a dumb idea this is. The people who really need this kind of book are NEVER going to read it. It is literally useless, something that serves no discernible function. It's like those "consent" seminars they give at colleges. Most people are not rapists, and would be far better served by someone spending 5 minutes or less giving them a clear, concise, reasonable definition of consent. But instead, they target the people who really need it overexplained to them. Those people are paying literally zero attention, so all you end up with is the other 95%+ of the audience walking away confused about what is and is not rape.
>>45535244
There's a large handful of people here who become enraged every time they're reminded Fate exists, they will never, ever give you an adequate reason why, and they will keep shitposting about how they don't like Fate in either a nonspecific or totally nonsensical way until the thread dies. Ignore them. Don't give them the reply they're clearly hoping for.
>>45536324
Oh, like virt and Dungeon World. Gotcha.
>>45536468
Or like virt and Fate, actually.
>>45535710
Technically, you can do that with GURPS as well.
>>45536313
>you can discuss L5R or 7th Sea without people feeling the need to bring up literally every single stupid, douchey thing John Wick has ever said or done
Really? I don't remember the last time I saw that on /tg/.
>>45534572
Why would you even NEED a book like that? Just make it an aspect or something, throw in a stunt or two and you're done.
>>45536286
It makes it considerably worse.
>>45534572
People are shitting up the thread about this, but it seems like a great resource for schools and classrooms.
>>45536956
That's an extremely roundabout way of going about shit. Just teaching kids this young the concept of roleplaying games, much less one as conceptually complex as Fate*. If for whatever reason you're dealing with children so sociopathic that you have to resort to supplements for roleplaying games to teach them the idea of not to be assholes to the handicapped, you'd be better served by using any one of the numerous books that already exist for that purpose. Hell, there are specific books for how to teach children to tolerate the blind, the autistic, the paraplegic, the dyslexic, kids with cancer...I know because I had to read those for the sake of various members of my family. We have the shittiest luck in this regard.
* Before you sperg at me about how simple Fate is and what a retard I must be for considering it complex, notice that I said CONCEPTUALLY, not mechanically. While Fate is mechanically very simple, some ideas which are central to its gameplay rely on a level of understanding of how stories are told and how games are played that kids under a certain age would have a very hard time grasping. I'm not even talking about questions like "what counts as an Aspect" or what's the narrative vs. mechanical difference between various actions. The fine balance between player narrative control and the GMs authority, for example, is something that even some adult roleplayers have trouble with. To grade schoolers, it would likely look complex to the point of apparent arbitrariness (from their point of view, either you're playing make-belief and everyone has equal authority, or you're playing a very primitive proto-roleplaying game and its the GM guiding the players. There's a reason roleplaying games aimed at young children normally have clear definitions for that).
>>45537522
True, Fate is quite a departure from things children and even more experienced gamers are familiar with: board games.
Fate is narrative meta and Aspects can be outright bewildering to people used to more rigid "do X when Y" rules.
>>45534548
I want Humanis to leave
>>45531499
Highly overrated. With how light this thing is, you could just go freeform and things would flow faster and smoother. If you're looking for a rule system, there are way better options out there.
![bono_chocolate_150x180[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/oQpt40o.png "bono_chocolate_150x180[1].png")
>>45535199
Anyone have problems with FAE?
There's a player that uses Stunts and narrative justification to use ONE Approach.
God damn what the fuck
>>45542121
I think part of the reason so many people have trouble with Fate is that too many people rely on the system to force them to not be shit players. There's not all that much stopping you from making incredibly OP characters either beyond GM discretion, or from doing stuff like this.
>>45541046
Hey, can you guess how I know you've never actually used Fate before?
>>45543439
You know, the Stunts are really cool and I guess you can justify being a turbo-god by having a multi-part Stunt that consumes all your Refresh...
I think the problem is you need to make sure the Stunt ONLY works in very discrete situations or has a cost. I am very much a fan of the Fudge '0' mean roll and the idea of both Invoke and Compel per Aspect. Give and take is more interesting than +this +that +this other thing all over the sheet.
>>45545193
>I am very much a fan of the Fudge '0' mean roll and the idea of both Invoke and Compel per Aspect. Give and take is more interesting than +this +that +this other thing all over the sheet.
Could you go into more detail on this? I don't really know FUDGE at all outside of Fate
>>45545475
'Fate dice' are oft referred to as 'FUDGE dice', for the reason that Fate took this distribution very directly from FUDGE.
There is no difference but if you're looking to buy a set, you can search either term.
This dice distribution is very interesting to me because it shares so much resemblance to the standard normal distribution. 4DF presents a most frequent "normal" (0) and the decreasing frequency as you go 'worse' or 'better' in either direction from the center.
>>45542121
(Side note: that's what is called "aspect spamming")
How is stunt ever a valid justification for using a specific approach beyond "I have this stunt so I want to use the approach it is attached to"?
As for narrative justifications, as a GM you have the final word on what approaches are valid for a given task. As starting point, you should use the question what the character wants to do, and the answer must not refer to an approach. Once the action has been described, most of the time it should be pretty easy to tell what approaches are not good for it and what do work. For example, if the action is "I need to get from here to there without the people noticing" you can bet the Flashy approach isn't going to cut it. If they say "ah but I will distract them with [a Flashy action]" then the action is no longer about moving unseen but about creating a distraction first (a Flashy CAA so they can invoke the aspect afterwards for their Sneaky Overcome to move unseen).
But also note that some repeated approach use is not a bad thing. Characters should be able to be played to their strengths (highest approaches).
And you can always use a carrot: if player wants to use approach X (their highest approach), say if they use approach Y instead, any success will be a success with style instead. Of coure approach Y needs to make narrative sense.
>>45546104
Crap, I was referring to "approach spamming" there.
>>45546104
>>45546127
I sense this player might be ignoring parts of the Stunt rules but I appreciate your points.
It's good to use your strengths, as people do this when they can--and so should the characters they create.
>>45534496
It's about damn time that the physically impaired are getting recognition in geek circles. Let's hope they don't embarrass themselves the way White Wolf has so many times!
>>45536956
>>45534749
Maybe it is written for people with social development disorders.
>>45534796
This actually would be better. A role-playing game for disabled people, instead of a role-playing game for (generally) non-disabled people to play disabled characters.
This thread is a fucking trainwreck
Why are RPGs becoming more like improv drama classes instead of tabletop games?
>>45547308
Because it is called ROLEplaying, not ROLLplaying.
They are finally shedding their D&D wargame shackles.
>>45547428
Why not join an improv or acting group? I'm pretty sure they've been playing games and doing exercises like this before D&D was invented.
>>45547491
But most of them don't like swords and sorcery.
>>45547502
What do they like? Serious question.
>>45547539
You're implying that I actually interact with people outside my job.
>>45547575
Is your job related to improv or acting? I'm taking a huge gamble on this one.
>>45547575
So you don't actually know what they like and are speaking from which orifice, exactly? I started my 4e table from a high school drama group, and supplement my 5e and Fate games with university theatre students.
>>45547308
>Short attention spans and laziness make crunchy games less attractive.
>Snap judgments are made about games that just look more crunchy
>Developers get overzealous with streamlining
>People like to follow trends
>Computer games are usurping the game side
>People shy preparation work
>Some like their improve drama
>>45547491
Extra rules help guide creativity. Also because standard RPG rules make chit wargames look like paragons of technical writing. Even with their huge rulebooks, something like Paths of Glory is a million times more elegant than your typical edition of D&D.
>>45536324
The worst I've ever seen was by some horrible That Guy guest star on a podcast, Angry GM, I think he was. He said something about the lines that it isn't even an rpg because of the meta currency of Fate points and the meta gameplay of compelling and invoking took you out of your character. That you should always be in character St all times and any meta features make it not a roleplaying game because you're making decisions you character wouldn't.
I guess I kind of see his point, but it's just so fucking pedantic it borders the bizarre. He said some other shit about Fate and rpgs in general that I can't remember (Except that minmaxers are the best and true roleplayers), it just infuriated me.
>>45550204
>Wants to enforce being always in character
>Wants everyone to be minmaxer
That doesn't seem to fit together, minmaxing isn't the most simulationist way to build a character.
>>45550204
>I guess I kind of see his point
Really? I don't. How is it any more "meta" than your character suddenly learning a new ability after killing an arbitrary number of things, or at least a dozen other common RPG features?
>>45550325
Yes, but are you really surprised a guy who calls himself the "Angry GM" is an incoherent mashup of every obnoxious grognard stereotype?
>>45550375
Angry GM is a mild ordinary handle. Kind of expected to work with the memes in any given subculture.
>>45547575
So you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
>>45534548
>Ever notice how elves are over represented in fantasy art?
Not in a way that I object to.
>there's at least one in every party, but their population numbers are low enough that you shouldn't ever have to think about them.
Not in any settings I can think of, besides (Maybe) Middle Earth.
>>45534548
Elves aren't a real life population that can be pandered to/offended, you idiot.
>>45550375
Not fully understanding or agreeing, mind you. It's just that if I squint hard enough I can kind of see the logic. I think every opinion, no matter how stupid, deserves to be tried to be understood and given the benefit of a doubt.
