Fair and balanced edition
>>45370926
The format wont be balanced again until they ban eye.
i just want to play this deck forever
>>45370926
I'm particularly glad that modern is now literally the colorless, flavorless, soulless format it has always been deep down. Maybe this is for the best.
>>45370926
I, for one, welcome our new Eldrazi overlords.
R8 my brew
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
3 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Godless Shrine
3 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Dark Confidant
3 Abbot of Keral Keep
2 Butcher of the Horde
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Goblin Dark Dwellers
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
2 Crackling Doom or Kolaghans Command
2-3 Liliana of the Veil
Looks good? Any recommendations?
>>45371803
I suggest making your Butchers a playset, just for consistency reasons
>>45371856
So what should I cut? He needs the token producers like Lingering Souls and Hero of Bladehold to make sure he always has enough sacrifice fodder
>>45371896
Maybe take out a Confidant and the Goblin Dark Dwellers?
I know this will never be good, but here's my mainboard for tomorrow. Any thoughts other than stop playing meme tribal?
>>45371803
>>45371969
if you want to boost tokens, swap abbots for young pyromancers.
Also, what do you think of Brimaz?
>>45372207
I feel like Hero of Bladehold just does what he does better.
>>45372207
My real question though is this even a viable midrange deck? I don't want to throw it together to find that it doesn't work
>>45372274
Grave Titan is better than Hero, he makes 2/2s
>>45372563
But costs 2 more mana. You do make a good point for adding a single Grave Titan perhaps.
No point playing this format until the ban in three months.
>>45371298
Eldrazi feed themselves tears and blue mana.
>>45371803
Dies to Eldrazi
>>45372205
Replace meme jester with 4 bushwhackers more.
Replace meme fanatic with 4 signal pest.
>>45372857
Eh chalice doesn't hurt the deck too bad.Especially not with maindeck K Command. Crackling Doom also helps because their creatures can easily be removed through it and Path does it's work. I'd probably up the paths if I anticipated a lot of Eldrazi. Helix keeps aggro at bay. And bolt helps stop Burn.
>>45372912
>>45372205
Also with 4 atarka's command I would rather play the full playset of Stomping ground or even basics since cavern can't cast any of your noncreature spells, and it's not like anyone will be playing counters at your fnm tomorrow.
>>45372912
Signal pest isn't a bad idea. Spike Jester is kind of a favorite though, he might have to stay
>>45372973
Youre splashing black just for him, he's a 1 toughness creature with no evasion. You know about those relationships that can kill you and just stop you from realizing your full potential? Spike Jester is one of those. He's easily replaced by another uncommon from the most recent set man. Also if you get 4 reckless bushwhacker you'll be 4x Monastery Swiftspear from playing the same deck in standard which could be fun.
Don't forget your 4x Destructive Revelry for the sideboard.
So the death of Rush got me thinking about lightning bolt again. A long long time ago I had him sign my bolts but I dont have them anymore. Do you know of any black bordered Rush bolts that I can find for less than $100.
>>45370926
DED FORMAT :^)
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-shouldnt-be-a-pro-tour-format/
>>45372332
proxy/online testing will tell you much much better than random anons can.
having said that, i've only been into modern for a couple months but i would guess that it is pretty viable
>>45373167
>Here are litteraly zero pieces of evidence to support my statement. I hate fast mana, bloo hoo edrazi. Remember when I invested pack rat?
What a fucking idiot.
I want to put Pandemonium into a Naya Zoo Deck. How bad of an idea is that?
What do you guys think of Chained to the Rocks for decks that run blood moon?
PtoE is obviously a nonbo.
I know some decks run decay and Qasali but it's disrupting and can't always be dealt with
>inb4 chalice on 1
So which is getting the ban, Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Temple?
>>45373302
A ban on eye would be pretty fair. It wouldn't completely destroy the deck. But it'd bump it down a few pegs.
>>45373053
Japanese 4th edition is objectively the best bolt
>>45373302
>Chances of Eye getting a ban: 100%
>Chances of Temple getting a ban: 80%
>>45373332
>>45373368
Isn't a temple ban better? Banning Eye hurts Tron also, while Temple only gibs Eldrazi.
>>45373391
eye is what makes the deck broken
>>45373302
Both, hopefully.
>>45373365
Not better than a blitzschlag
>>45373271
>How bad of an idea is that?
Very. Impact tremors and Outpost Siege would be far better additions to the deck than Pandemonium, that's not to say that those would be good additions either.
>>45373391
>Banning Eye hurts tron also
That ban would only take away Tron's super ultra nuh-uh inevitavility long game plan, which was still kind of unfair. Also I don't remember any Tron buld running more than one eye so most tron players will be meh about it if it means they can actually play their deck.
>Temple only gibs Eldrazi.
Leaving Eye unbanned still let's Eldrazi players go T1 Mimic, mimic, mimic, t2 SSG, TKS gg? Even T1 3 mimics into t2 removal can be an impossible situation to recover from for most decks.
>>45373391
The problem is the Eye doesn't tap for it's 2 mana, whereas the Temple does. So the eye leads to more shenanigans with the lowercosted eldrazi by making them even LOWER costed than they should be.
Frankly, if they're going to have low-costed Eldrazi I think both lands should be banned. Now Eldrazi is like every other tribal with a curve rather than "a bunch of overcosted fatties," the lands would be like putting out "Elvish Temple: Tap to add GG to your mana pool."
>>45373391
Eye is by far the more problematic of the two cards, turn one Mimics into turn two Thought-Knot or Smasher is much too powerful.
>>45373455
Just saying, eye should have completed the legendary lands cycle from Urzas Saga. T: Add 1 to your mana pool for each colorless creature you control
>>45373443
>filthy nazi card you cant say without yelling
>better than glorious nippon card with qute moonrunes
>>45373519
>filthy nazi card you cant say without yelling
Yeah I don't think you can come up with a better reason than this
>>45373519
>not wanting to shout blitzshlag at the top of your lungs while wearing an SS uniform
>>45373564
>idolizing a loser who lost and committed suicide
I prefer winners, like America.
>>45373611
>Implying america didn't commit suicide
>Implying america hasn't lost half the wars it was involved in
>>45373633
No one really wins a war anon. Everyone loses.
>>45373682
I cant argue with that
Rate my shitting Naya Zoo Deck:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/12-02-16-naya-zoo/
how good is that mtggoldfish budget monogreen stompy deck?
>>45373924
The build they have on the site is ok, but I find you're better off dropping the dismembers and adding Collected Company. Maybe editing the creatures a bit. Groundbreaker with Aspect of Hydra is insane.
>>45373491
and again we are at the point where /tg/ shows how they can't into logic
you state
>Eye is by far the more problematic
and go on
>into turn two TKS or Smasher is much too powerful
tell me anon, how does the Eldrazi player pay for those T2 TKS? Where does the colorless mana come from? Where do the 2 mana he needs come from?
fuck, someone should have told your mom not to drink when she was pregnant with you
you are basically saying 1 Mimic into TKS is okay but 2 Mimics into fucking nothing is not
this is why you don't win anon
your thinking skills are just inferior
>>45373924
Go download XMAGE / Cockatrice and see for yourself.
If you don't want to play against T0 / T1 decks, state so in the lobby name.Sorry anon, but it's really easy nowadays to just playtest 20 or so matches with a deck, make your own adjustments and give yourself better impressions than a 4chan post could
>>45374139
Eye allows you to cast multiple 2-drops on turn one, if that isn't a problem, I don't know what is.
>>45373454
if you can do the "magic-christmas-land-hand" I can do the same:
>he plays 3 Mimics
>I play T1 SSG Pyroclasm
>gg I just 1for3'd him and his TKS T2 can suck my dick
also, on what planet is T1 3 Mimics into T2 removal problematic? why should I commit to the board? Why not play my own removal
fucking Forkeld Bolt is a 1for2
and if you are right and a bunch of low costed 2/1 oder whatever are unbeatable, why doesn't everyone play Memnites/Frogmites etc. and wins tournaments
fuck, pull that dick out your brain and think just for a minute before acting like you actually invested any thought into what you write
>>45374139
Your eyes also allow you to freeroll 1 Newlamog for when you need it and make your urborg produce 2 black.
The only thing that temple has over Eye is that it casts your non-eldrazi cards.
>>45374167
Affinity can do the same fucking thing
do you see Frogmites or Memnites banned?
It is one, exactly one creature they can dump on the board. If you think that is broken and not the T2 TKS than there is no helping you anon
stick to standard please
>>45374195
A Memnite is a vanilla 1/1, a Mimic is a 2/1 that can become a 4/4 or even a 5/5 on turn two. They both cost 0 in their respective decks but one is significantly more powerful than the other.
>>45374195
>Affinity and Eldrazi is the exact same deck
Nice strawman, retard
I think the difference between Affinity and Eldrazi is that Affinity has an incredible pile of dead cards (Springleaf, Mox Opal, Ornithopter) that it has to play to have its explosive open; and that explosive open has to usually involve a Signal Pest. And it has to continue running good not and any sort of post-board hate just takes it completely out of the game.
Eldrazi's "dead" cards are merely lands. The followup to fast Mimics is a degree of beatdowns that even under less than ideal conditions inflicts a level of beatdowns that can only be achieve in Affinity by a Plating draw. A less ideal Eldrazi hand without Mimics still kills you real fast with T1 2/2s - something Affinity requires a strong combination of cards to achieve.
Sometimes I feel like I have the opportunity to Wrath both decks. The difference is that often, Eldrazi bounces back faster whereas Affinity demands a Plating+Manland to get by post-Wrath.
That's why I feel Eldrazi is much stronger.
>>45374225
>on turn two
GOD FUCKING DAMN ANON READ MY FUCKING POST
HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BE A 4/4 OR A 5/5 TURN FUCKING 2 WITHOUT TEMPLE
fuck you guys are trying so hard to stay stupid
it is the T2 play that is broken and not the Eye T1
and you damn fucking retards keep responding
>but Mimic can turn fucking huge T2 so the problem is, that the Eldrazi player could play them T1
no fucking no
with Eye the can play up to four Mimics that can't do shit T2 because there is no follow up
with Temple they can still play Mimic into TKS into Smasher
fuck fuck fuck, why are you guys to fucking hard to educate
>>45374269
Even with Temple gone, the T1 Eye followed up with T2 Urborg is still fairly filthy. Wasteland Strangler is still good though not as ideal.
I think we're arguing about nothing here. T1 Temple to T2 Temple is strong. Eye with a combination of Temple or Urborg is strong. They're both too strong and both on the wrong side of fair.
I think we can agree that any either line of play is too strong and nobody, even Tron, would cry with the loss of both Eye and Temple.
>>45374325
The point I was making in a previous thread though is, that with both lands gone the whole tribe would end up being unplayable again
since /tg/ makes fun of WotC for killing diversity I have to say the outcry to ban Eye or both is hypocrisy
I was playing grixis delver, but I think Im moving over to control.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-02-16-lwv-grixis-control/
What do you think of the list?
>>45374399
I'd cut the Tombstalker for another Tasigur, cut 1 Pia and Kiran for Kalithas.
Also, I'm not really sure about the second Jace + the Rakdos Charm in the sideboard.
>>45374433
Tombstalker is a pet card, I always run im in the spot of one of the tasigurs.
Charm is useful for kikichord, afinity, and grishoal.
I will try Kalithas, he seams neat. What would you suggest in the second jace slot?
>>45374348
I don't really want to jump through the mental gymnastics of who is being a hypocrite or which community is being a whiny bitch.
The way I look at is there's a line of what is fair and not fair in Modern. Some decks tread that line in a way that I'm not terribly pleased about but I am willing to put up with it.
Eldrazi is flagrantly on the wrong side of that power line to me. I don't really care about hypocrisy because no matter what, it's not making the format any better. I feel like Wizards can safely nuke the deck into the ground and we can thank them for correcting their mistake - and they can continue not giving a fuck about Modern when they design new cards. It's just the right thing to do in my opinion.
Really though, it doesn't matter all that much to me in the end. It's not like at my store there are going to suddenly be half a dozen people terrorizing everyone with Eldrazi. Maybe one or two people will have it in our Modern community of around 20 people and most of us just won't care about one player in 20.
If in 2 months the deck proves to be unbeatable then I expect a ban; but if it proves to reshape the metagame into a different yet fair environment then I will retract my feelings on the deck being too powerful. I might have to "suffer" through two Modern events possibly "dominated" by Eldrazi in that time and who really cares.
Wizards is a company that utterly fucks up all the time in my opinion. I think this error in card design is hardly the worst thing they've done. I think the fact that a dip into Modern costs more than a house payment is more ridiculous and they're making no effort to solve that. Really, if Modern was affordable I will put up with all the Eldrazi you want - no joke. If cards were $5 at most I'll accept any fuck ups on their part.
>the difference between Eldrazi and Affinity
>>45374448
Not sure, to be honest.
On another note, how is the manabase working out for you without filterlands?
You are running cryptic + snap + some double mana cards.
Maybe cut a mountain and an island for some filters?
I'm not super experienced, these are merely suggestions made by a sleep-deprived anon.
>>45374452
Why don't we just unban Preordain, Twin and SFM?
Then reprint force of will as a rare, give white a worse version of blood moon, print true name nemesis in a normal set, reprint Natural Order
>>45371803
Cut bladehold and dark dwellers, add bitterblossom.
Also cut either abbot or confidant. Abbot is kind of dumb when you're running that many 4-5 drops..
>>45373260
modern really should not be a pro tour format.
>>45374545
Fuck off, Owen
>>45374195
> one creature
They can dump endless one too...
If their hand is eye + some variation of mimics and endless ones, They're ALL coming down. Literally 12 mana worth of creatures possible.
>>45374545
What other competitive events that support modern are there on that scale?
>>45374497
I cut a mountain and a island for a sunken ruins and a cascade bluffs, because I think you are right about that,
Im going to keep playing around with the creatures and jaces to see what I want to do.
>>45374545
Modern and Legacy should both be pro tour formats.
One sealed, one standard, one modern, one legacy.
>>45374594
Or two standard instead of a sealed, either way.
>>45373391
Eye of Ugin can easily "produce" more than 2 mana per turn whereas Eldrazi Temple is capped at 2.
If you go T1 Mimic, Mimic, your Eye essentially produced 4 mana. If your turn 1 land was Temple, you could only cast 1. Another example is with the UR Draftdrazi deck. If you play a Skyspawner for U, a Mimic for free, and an Aggregate for R, you got 8 mana worth of creatures for 2 mana. Eye "produced" 6 mana in 1 turn.
Also, if you ban Eye but not Temple, Eldrazi can still have crazy nut draws where they go T1 Temple, T2 Temple, Thought-Knot, but they have to have 2 out of 4 Temples.
However, you can only have 1 Eye on the field at a time. If you were to ban Temple, any extra draws of Eye are dead cards (assuming no land destruction). Banning both is too much, but it seems like it could go either way if Wizards is to ban one of them.
>>45374552
It's bad for the format either wizards bans something to make it interesting(in their opinion) or the players start clamoring to get something banned once it is over.
also results are also easily skewed due to the 6 rounds of draft.
That's also not including the fact that the pros hate it
>>45374573
I prefer GPs and the like.
>>45374594
legacy pro tour would result in the format being changed. I'm sure top would be one of the first things to go(i know some people would be happy with this).
>>45374660
What legacy decks even play top? Miracles and 12 post?
Sure, Miracles is everywhere, but im sure it would become like Tron - everyone playing decks and cards that play around counter top lock
>>45374660
I dont think anything needs to change for legacy. Its a healthy and diverse format. Giving it a spotlight would help attract more players for it. Hell if there was enough interest wizards might consider going back on the reserve list.
Anyway, I think each of the three major formats deserve their time in the spotlight.
>>45374674
>>45374660
While miracles is the top deck I dont think that it is too over represented. Even then if they banned top only deck goes out. Either way the format looks like its in good shape to me.
>>45374683
modern was mostly fine before this ban list. bloom most likely had to go but the format was fairly healthy and diverse.
Wizards can't have every modern pro-tour feature the same decks every time. Same thing would happen to legacy eventually something would have to go for the sake of "diversity". modern and legacy are better of being outside of the protour spotlight.
ITT: Morons and/or people that hate Legacy and want it to get the same treatment as Modern gets from WOTC. I don't want a dozen cards banned from a great format to spice things up.
>>45374711
Top is played in Doomsday, ANT, Painter, 12-post, Miracles and I'm probably overlooking some deck. It would essentially kill lots of decks.
>>45374764
Magic players just like to whine. They complain that wizards doesn't print cards for modern or legacy, but as soon as some new cards turn out to be really good they demand an emergency ban. There was nothing wrong with modern, but people bitched, now its all screwy.
>>45374727
This, modern should have never been a Pro Tour format.
>>45373260
>One deck has fast mana
>The other decks don't
>There's no way of stopping fast decks
You don't see this as a problem?
>>45374791
Wizards never printed any cards for Modern. They just forgot that Eldrazi were supposed to be big monstrous creatures, and broke Eye/Temple because of it.
>>45374533
Spicy sugestions
>>45374862
They do on occasion print cards for other formats. Abrupt decay was made with legacy in mind.
>>45374533
>reprint Natural Order
ye nah
>>45373282
Chained is better than path only in enchantress. If you are running blood moon as the only enchantment, give up on chained.
>>45374727
I disagree with the bloom ban being good, bloom was one the few decks that kept non interactive aggro in check.
Modern will be 60+% aggro even after the Eye ban because they banned almost all good combo decks and control and midrange don't have the tools to deal with 20 different flavors of aggro.
>>45372205
Play some lords.
>>45374862
wizards throws other formats a bone now and again. General tazri is a bonus commander for edh players this year.
>>45375013
>Abrupt decay was made with legacy in mind.
And I will forever hate them for printing the damned thing.
>>45375322
jeskai ascendancy will be the new meme combo deck when eldrazi go.
>>45375380
eldrazi will never be go, theyll only slow down slightly
What would the meta look like if they removed the banlist for a year?
>>45373052
him being a 3/1 might as well read 3/3 for all it matters in modern
>>45372836
Or, the meta is affinity and eldrazi, both higher percentages then any one deck has had for a while. And the rest of the decks people try to play can't win.
>>45375465
better than now
>>45374269
>HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BE A 4/4 OR A 5/5 TURN FUCKING 2 WITHOUT TEMPLE
A wastes, exile SSG. Really anon, it's not that hard.
The only reason it wouldn't be eye, is because WoTC normally doesn't ban cards of real monetary value, with the exception of JtMS.
>>45374452
>Really though, it doesn't matter all that much to me in the end. It's not like at my store there are going to suddenly be half a dozen people terrorizing everyone with Eldrazi. Maybe one or two people will have it in our Modern community of around 20 people and most of us just won't care about one player in 20.
Really wish I had an LGS where not everyone plays T0-1 decks, there's going to be at least 5 eldrazi there tonight for me.
>>45374533
>give white a worse version of blood moon
Literally the only thing you said that I can get behind.
>>45374269
T1 start with gem on board, play eye, 3 mimic
T2 play waste, drop tks, swing for 16
Or
T2 play temple, drop smasher, swing for 20
You can even do it without gem, just crack a SSG
>>45375611
So play something with Blood Moon in the side.
>>45374533
>Unban Preordain
No, it pushes the combo decks over the edge.
Everything else seems fine, although Natural Order might be a little too strong.
>>45375897
>No, it pushes the combo decks over the edge.
What combo decks, there fucking aren't any, unless you count infect as combo.
>>45375863
You're dead before you get to cast it. Lantern with bridge and needle mb is about the only thing keeping eldrazi from having a 50+ winrate against the whole field.
I made a shitty skeleton tribal deck for modern. I guess this would be better posted in a casual thread but i can't be fucked to make a new thread. Maybe it will work at my LGS.
The deck basically builds off my skeletons dieing repeatedly to put stacks on door of destinies. This would honestly be a million times more effective if done with zombies, but not half as cool.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-02-16-skeleton-tribal/
>I want to use damnations instead of judgment day, but that would kill my drudge skeletons.
>gravepact doesn't work with athreos, and athreos is more important
>blood funnel could be really fun in this deck if I change stuff around. If I use that, then I'd probably replace vampiric rites for more expensive draw cards.
So tell me tg, am I onto something, or am Iboned?
>>45374177
>why doesn't everyone play Memnites/Frogmites etc. and wins tournaments
they do, its called affinity
>>45373282
PtE is a nonbo only if you don't play Blood Moon as the tempo spell it truly is.
Don't worry about freeing them from Moon, Moon is fundamentally a speed bump card you use to tempo-screw other decks into submission.
>>45376007
>You're dead before you get to cast it
I just tested Affinity against Eldrazi and found this to be generally not true.
>>45372205
more mogg war marshals
reckless bushwhacker
whats the sb?
>>45376132
Affinity doesn't count, it can outrace eldrazi as it is.Cranial Plating should eat a ban with Eye.
>>45370926
I have a goblin deck that can get 100/100 tokens in 8 rounds. Using dolmin gate.
So much whining.
If you think Eldrazi is so unfair, why don't you just play it?
>>45376148
Why would they ban cranial plating? Is Affinity really that degenerate that it deserves a ban?
>>45376214
Why drop a G on a deck that gets banned in two months for cheap wins in a degenerate meta?
>>45376214
they were busy spewing memes instead of buying everything while it was cheap
>>45375980
I don't think you could have Twin and Preordain in the same format, not to mention decks like Grishoalbrand which are probably due a ban or two anyway.
>>45376219
Cranial enables t2 kills (in a "turn 4 format") with the nut draw more often than Infect ever, which is the reason why Bloom got banned.
>>45376175
Also, I only need 8 land to cast every card, however, it has 19 land. Red, all
>>45376214
Too much effort, also Legacy is dead where I play.
>implying Eldrazi isn't totally a gateway deck for Legacy
Just add Ancient Tombs and you're ready for maximum bullshit.
>>45376233
>banning every single damned combo deck in the format
You know what, modern deserves to get stomped into the mud by the eldrazi menace, fuck this whole format.
>>45376230
>buying into a meme deck that has 100% chance of getting gutted
Enjoy your eye of ugin and eldrazi temple flavored fire kindling
>>45376268
>Giving combo decks the tools they need to reach Eldrazi levels of oppressiveness
>>45376268
Ad Nauseam is a thing and kills on t4 fairly regularly.
>>45376299
How about actually making a healthy format by giving every deck the tools they need to compete instead of turning the format into special olympics?
Post good guy decks
>>45376011
Drudge skeletons are pretty bad run Augur of Skulls instead and don't be afraid to sacrifice it. Also you could probably shift to a more smallpox/deathcloud based deck with bloodghasts and flagstones of trokair.
>tfw people still refuse to believe Chalice of the Void is the problem card in Eldrazi
>>45376228
>Why drop a G on a deck
Because you shouldn't have to.
I mean, if you waited until now to get Chalice of the Void, then you fucked up. It's been a decent card for over a decade. Even moreso, Mutavault, SSG, Blinkmoth Nexus and Spellskite have been Modern staples for years now.
I'll admit... I did get fucked on Eye of Ugin. Bought three of them for $8 each on eBay back in December. By the time I got a refund from the seller, they were $30 each.
>>45376230
>they were busy spewing memes instead of buying everything while it was cheap
Strange. It's like they've never watched a pro tour before.
>>45376251
Affinity is one of my go to decks. I play it once a month (out of at least 4 modern events a month).
I don't think I've ever had a turn 2 kill.
>>45376256
>Too much effort
Effort? What effort?
>>45376340
Oh shit, I see the direction you're going anon! That sounds dirty as hell, I love it!
>>45376315
Because one deck's gain is every other deck's loss, the reason the ban list exists is to stop particular archetypes from becoming too powerful and maintaining a format where a diversity of strategies exists. Modern would look very different without the ban list and likely wouldn't be as good a format as it is with the ban list.
Of course, this is all hypothetical, since WotC seems to think that Twin is too strong while Eldrazi decks are fine.
>>45376354
>I mean, if you waited until now to get Chalice of the Void, then you fucked up
It's a good thing you addressed the most important bit :^)
No one here is heading to the Pro Tour top8, so dropping [amount of money here] into a deck the power level of which gets you nothing but free wins and some boosters for the next two months is just not worth it.
>>45373611
>Implying Hitler actually committed suicide
American education everyone
>>45376251
The frequency of kills before turn 4 is what's really important. Infect and Affinity might be able to win on turn 2 with the nut draw but they can't do it consistently. Compare that with Bloom or Grishoalbrand, which are decks that can win on turn 2 with some regularity, they can even win on turn one.
>>45376383
too lazy to scrounge up cards for a deck I'm probably not gonna play anyway.
Don't even care about the ban odds, just not feeling the cost/benefit.
>>45376353
How is it the problem card? Worst case scenario it stops 1 drops turn 1. How would you beat the deck with those 1 drops?
>>45376353
Chalice can be backbreaking on the play, but it's easy enough to beat for the most part. It's no worse than Blood Moon.
>>45376495
blood moon is better in modern because nobody plays basic lands besides me in modern
>>45376391
Thing is modern isn't a good format even with the banlist, it's a half-aborted fetus of a format.
>>45376444
A lot of the decks that would have a positive matchup (fast decks that go low and under instead of trying to compete with Eldrazi in the attrition game, or cascade combo decks like Living End where you're wiping the board repeatedly for asymmetric value) get gimped by Chalice on the play.
>>45376495
It's stupid in game 1 on the play though.
Anywhere else, in any other deck, Chalice would be fine, but the Colorless Eldrazi deck is far and away the best Chalice deck in the format, and it has a warped performance record because it shuts down its bad matchup before it gets to sideboard while the rest of its list is just rock solid and able to trade blows with the best of them in a game of attrition.
Chalice is more comparable to Stony Silence, but with so many decks getting brick walled by it that the best opener on the play is almost always t1 chalice for 1. You just throw it out blindly because so often it locks out the opponent from the game, and the decks it doesn't work on you were already favored against them. And this is all in game 1, no sideboarding required.
>>45376538
This.
The Eldrazi fiasco has only made me realize how crappy Modern really is and how little of a shit Wizards gives about it.
You basically can't stop it from becoming Linear City, USA without cards like FoW. The idiotic bans removing one of the few last bastions of interaction from the format (Twin) doesn't really help either.
Sure there are exceptions like GBx and Abzan CoCo (However Jund looks so outclassed in the current meta it's both sad and funny), but for the most part Modern is just about doing your thing as fast as possible. Didn't draw your sideboard card? Too fucking bad nigger.
Pic related, it's mfw Eldrazi keeps taking at least 50% of all Top 8 slots in MtG. Every day.
But the meta will totally adapt, you guys.
I've been testing Eldrazi and it doesn't seem nearly as broken as some of the shit I've played in the past.
>>45376700
>twin
>fostering interaction
>B-B-BUT YOU CAN CAST RENDING VOLLEY ON MY DECEIVER EXARCH! NOT THAT IT MATTERS BECAUSE I BOARDED OUT THE COMBO GAME 2 AND YOU TOOK OUT CARDS THAT COULD'VE IMPROVED YOUR ODDS BY BEING THE BEATDOWN JUST SO YOU CAN RENDING VOLLEY AN EXARCH!
>>45376768
Still better than
>I fart out my hand
>There's nothing you can do about it
>I win
I mean there was a fucking 47 second game at the PT. 47 seconds.
>>45376768
You trim the combo down, you didn't take it out. If you board plan was "board out all my creatures for removal" then that's your fault for having a shitty board plan
>examine Top8 results
>see 22 decks under "Creature Toolbox"
>mfw it's a mix of chord and coco decks that really aren't even close to the same deck
>mfw one of the decks under that heading is ALSO Eldrazi
>mfw seven of them weren't even Top 8 finishers
Correct that and Eldrazi decks are 24% of the competitive Top 8 results in the last two weeks and rising.
>>45374139
Cavern of souls ? Any painlands that can replace the temples if they get banned ?
Eye into painlands/cavern + SSG ?
Are you retarded ?
I feel like there's mostly two types of modern players
http://strawpoll.me/6796201
which do we have more of
>>45374195
Are you retarded ?
Memnites are 1/1 with no effects.
Mimics are 2/1 that become 4/4 or 5/5 on T2
>>45376915
That poll is bullshit.
>>45376914
>3 cards=2 cards
>>45376986
so is this format
>>45376849
Expanding on that, only two decks are above 8% of the metagame:
>Eldrazi Aggro ~22%
>Affinity 13%
Nothing else is even within 5% of Affinity, but let's say for the sake of diversity that the next two closest decks can be Tier 1 too.
>RDW 7% and falling
>Jund 6% and falling
That leaves us with a Tier 1 of Affinity, Red Deck Wins, and Jund if we're being extremely charitable. At this point Eldrazi Aggro could actually be considered Tier 0 not because its presence in the metagame is higher than the next TWO T1 decks but because the deck that's best at dealing with it (by all counts Affinity) hasn't been able to keep it in check. And the other two decks in "Tier 1" are declining in representation every day.
Congrats, Wizards. You may have literally broken the format.
Post lobsters
Since and including the PT, Modern top 8s have been 47% Eldrazi aggro.
>>45377071
>there will never be a Modern-legal lobster
>>45377101
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=370632
That is the closest you are going to get because there is no lobster creature type in magic.
>>45377090
Apparently their "wakeup call" for GP Singapore was when 70% or more of the Day 2 field was playing the same deck (Caw Blade).
>>45377214
>70% of players on Cawblade
>Emergency bans
>75% of a PT top 8 is Eldrazi
>Eldrazi had around an 85-90% non-mirror win rate over the PT
>dog_coffee_fire_fine.jpg
I was planning on trading into Snapcaster to start a UR Delver deck.
At this point, after the pro tour, I'm not sure if it's even worth it anymore. What do you guys think? Worth trading into Snapcaster?
>>45377245
Either build Legacy or stop playing Magic.
>>45377245
Things are really volatile now. I say stay out of Modern for a while, at least until Eldrazi gets banned.
Do pick up Snappy though. If anything, you can play it in Legacy or sell it later.
>>45377090
>>45377054
>>45376849
>the meta will adapt desu :^)
>>45377309
>The meta will adapt to a flood of 2/1s on turn one, and a 4/4 that guts your hand on turn two while turnings all of those 2/1s into 4/4s
I agree, what an incredibly easy thing to hate out of a format :^)
>>45377309
>the meta adapts
>all decks are now eldrazi decks
I'm really, really praying for a Twin unban. U/R Lantern with Twin as a "backup" plan to win if the game stalls would be fun.
That said, how terrible would a Temur deck with Emblem of the Warmind, Intruder Alarm, and Presence of Gond be? Or maybe Naya with Midnight Guard instead of Intruder Alarm? Could it work?
>>45377240
>>45377309
>it's fine when it happens to Modern
>this is all about pushing OGW packs
Doesn't matter which of these reasons is behind it, I'm building Legacy.
Land (24)
2x Academy Ruins
4x Buried Ruin
4x Darksteel Citadel
1x Desolate Lighthouse
1x Foundry of the Consuls
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Island
2x Mountain
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Swamp
Sorcery (4)
4x Wildfire
Creature (1)
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Artifact (23)
1x Codex Shredder
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Dimir Signet
4x Izzet Signet
4x Mox Opal
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Rakdos Signet
4x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
Instant (4)
4x Thirst for Knowledge
Planeswalker (4)
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Sideboard (15)
1x Dispel
1x Duress
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
2x Spell Pierce
4x Spellskite
3x Thoughtseize
>>45377340
Wizards won't unban Twin purely because they've only just banned it, and they're at a stage where they never EVER want to lose face about anything whatsoever. That's why they're hesitant to unban cards that clearly shouldn't be banned like Visions or Dread Return; unbannings make them look bad at their job.
http://mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO
THE SECOND MOST PLAYED CARD IN MODERN IS NOW GHOST QUARTER
IT IS VERY QUICKLY OVERTAKING LIGHTNING BOLT
YOU HEARD ME, THE TERRIFYING LIGHTNING BOLT THAT BROKE STANDARD AND HAS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL CARDS IN MODERN SINCE THE FORMAT WAS CREATED
IS ABOUT TO BE DETHRONED BY FUCKING GHOST QUARTER
>>45377340
Honestly I'm not even sure Twin could do anything against the memedrazi.
>>45377392
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLPnwhD_sY8
It would have some game but I think Eldrazi would still be favored. Amulet is faster most of the time if no t1 ghost quarter.
>>45377371
Even without unbannings they look terrible at their job.
>>45377457
Nope. They actually did an splendid job with the PT.At selling OGW packs.
>>45377392
Probably not. I just really want to play Twin. Also, I have a copy that just lost a fair amount of its value, and I'm hoping it goes up just so I can play it somewhere. I probably can't afford to make any real kind of Modern deck, but I can dream.
>>45377487
Yes Anon, all of those viable ARCHETYPES like Zoo, Infect, Affinity, Eldrazi, Burn. So many different ARCHETYPES I just don't know what to do with myself.
>>45377526
But anon, you can literally take your draft deck, add 8 lands to it and have a top deck, see how nice wizards are?
>>45377601
>drafting 52 card decks
>>45377621
>Implying the target audience sees a problem with drafting a 52 card deck
Let's say instead of banning eye or temple, wotc wants to unban stuff instead so that Timmy doesn't lose his new modern deck and quit magic.
How much shit would you have to unban to create a decent format? Can you even do it without making it a turn 3 format?
>>45377701
Unban Stoneforge Mystic, Deathrite Shaman, Twin and BBE.
>>45377701
I'd unban:
Twin
Bloodbraid
Stoneforge
That should just about make it.
>>45377701
>How much shit would you have to unban to create a decent format?
Well, you'd have to make it...
>Can you even do it without making it a turn 3 format?
It already is.
>>45377659
>Implying the target audience sees a problem with drafting a 52 card deck
Good point.
>>45377701
ban Chalice, it's that fucking simple.
As long as Eldrazi gets Chalice, there's no point in playing non-Eldrazi decks.
>>45377726
>Control still nowhere near viable
>>45377719
DRS and BBE would push BGx and especially Jund back over the top.
>>45377719
>tarmogoyf_typing_at_a_computer.jpg
>>45377746
>>45377758
I may have a slight bias towards the "Jund 'em out" strategy.
>>45377701
Everything that you could unban would both make Timmy quit Magic -and- do nothing to stop Eldrazi.
Why are Twin memers such fucking idiots?
>>45377740
Control will never exist in Modern until they actually print good, universal answers. Which they have said that don't like for Standard. So, never.
>>45377781
>needing universal answers to make Control good
wew lad
>>45377795
How are situational answers a good thing for control decs?
>>45373922
It's a start/10
Look into aquiring some paths, Knight of the Reliquaries, collected companies, and if possible a playset of noble hierarchs. Ditch the rampager for huntsmaster of the fells.
>>45377828
That's what researching the metagame is for you stupid fuck.
You have a 60 card main with 15 card sideboard, do your goddamn homework.
>>45377778
I wasn't even thinking twin
My personal list was bbe, jtms, ancestral vision, and seething song
>>45377849
>You have a 60 card main with 15 card sideboard, do your goddamn homework.
>load deck with answers to affinity
>lose to burn
>change deck for burn
>lose to infect
>get facefucked by eldrazi no matter what
>>45377849
This metagame has existed for a long ass fucking control and no stable control deck has come into being. Abrupt Decay is the single biggest reason why BGx does as well as it does, meanwhile Ux has nothing.
>>45377849
Lel. You keep brewing that control list buddy.
The only thing that would maybe help "control" is an Ancestral Visions unban. But in this hypothetical scenario where memedrazi is never banned, even that feels too slow.
>>45377880
>Eldrazi just sideboards into a processor and dumps Visions into your yard
>>45377894
No, they sideboard into Oblivion Sower and get a huge mana advantage that you can't keep up with. Nice Mana Leak fag.
>>45377931
Mana Leak isn't a control card and it never has been. Logic Knot does its job much better.
>>45377873
Modern will never have good 1cmc/2cmc counterspells or good drawing spells. I've long since given up on it.
>>45377870
>build badly
>get fucked for building badly
>complain that [archetype] sucks anyway
>>45377880
I'd play AV only because it's cheap enough in suspend to commit to without disrupting my plan of curving out low to support Deprive.
Deprive is kinda a cool spell as long as you don't get greedy about it.
>>45378008
Deprive isn't really that cool considering the end game of traditional control in Modern is resolving a Sphinx's Revelation for as much as possible.
>>45378008
>He thinks Deprive is Control and not Tempo
>>45378034
Jeskai is a shitty control deck though, UW even worse.
If you aren't playing UBx of some sort, you deserve to get fucked.
>>45376768
>twin is not interactive
I love this meme
Who's ready for jeskai ascendancy :^)
>>45378163
Deceiver Exarch is the straw breaking the camel's back.
It lets Twin bully decks for playing the beatdown.
>>45378167
That's a fake.
Fucking amateurs.
>>45378167
Fake and gay.
They don't use "play" on spells anymore. Only "cast".
>>45378207
They could have included that so they could print lands with madness.
>>45377964
Logic Knot is awful turn 2 when you really need a counterspell to stabilize for turn 4 wrath. It's also a nonbo with Snap, which is one of the best control cards out there. There was a lot of BGx in my meta for a long time so UW control became popular and EVERYONE agreed Knot was shit.
>>45378231
>Lands with madness
Even Wizards isn't THAT dumb.
>>45377746
I'd honestly like to see it. Jund is pretty fucking terrible against the top decks right now.
>>45378271
Yeah because you can't cast land.
>>45377389
Clearly Ghost Quarter is too strong. I look forward to seeing it banned in April.
>>45378258
Snap is more of a tempo asset. Using him means going into 2-for-x mode and while that can make gains in tempo it isn't really efficient from a control standpoint until you're ready to move into the endgame.
He's amazing simply for being extra copies of the best spell you already cast, but don't deny that tacking 1U to your best spell is always what you want to be doing.
Unless you're Jeskai and your control plan is so shitty you literally have to double as a bad burn deck to compete with half of the field in which case Lightning Helix is still good even when you're paying 1UWR for it so long as you also get a permanent out of it (like resolving Ajani Vengeant; I'm not kidding, evan as a 4 mana Lightning Helix he's still surprisingly awesome)
>>45377778
I didn't read a twin player in his comment at all. But, why is modern a place for Timmy anyways? Timmy's are EDH cancer, and supporting them in a format not geared towards Timmy is fucking retarded.
Alright boys. Rate my brew. It's BW D&T list - tuned mostly vs Infect, Eldrazi, Zoo, Affinity, Tron, Merfolk, and Delver
10 Spells
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to Exile
2x Mana Tithe
27 Creatures
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Flickerwisp
3x Wasteland Strangler
2x Eldrazi Displacer
2x Aven Mindcensor
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Fiend Hunter
23 Lands
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Tectonic Edge
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
3x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Swamp
SB -
2x Worship
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Sunlance
2x Stony Silence
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Mark of Asylum
1x Disenchant
1x Celestial Flare
>>45378365
I wouldn't put Timmy in EDH either.
Timmy belongs at the kitchen table until he begins to appreciate deckbuilding as a Johnny or the raw thrill of winning like Spike.
>>45378271
It's interesting, something like:
~ ETB tapped
tap: add B to your mana pool
Madness
would probably be a fairly reasonable card. The templating is silly since you'd have to include a cost and lands don't really have costs to play them (although 'when ~ etb, sacrifice it unless you do X' is functionally very similar). I don't think they would print a land with madness but from a powerlevel perspective, it could easily be a very fair card.
NICE ELDRAZI NERD HAHAHAHA
GOT EM
>>45378258
You've obviously never played with it yourself then. You can't run 4 copies of it, but as a two of it's a staple in Esper Control.
On turn 2 you should be able to cast it for X=1 and counter 2 and 3 drops.
Also Snapcaster is a Tempo or Midrange card because Control decks often don't have a use for the 2/1 body. You play him in Control decks because he's really fucking good, not because he fits perfectly with your game plan.
Esper Charm is a Control card.
>>45378391
Endless One causes you some problem, but yes, assuming you get to 5 mana before they kill you, Godhead of Awe would be difficult for Eldrazi to deal with.
>>45378391
Kek.
Also,
>Implying you will survive for five turns
>>45378391
Congratulations you just made that Endless One even bigger.
>>45378385
Madness lands are cute but only if you have to pony up nontrivial amounts of mana to put them in play, otherwise they become an easy way of breaking the symmetry of a number of black cards.
Imagine Smallpox with Madness lands, just for a second.
I'm not suggesting Smallpox decks are the sole reason why it's a bad idea, but just imagine what it's like to be able to cast Smallpox asymmetrically like that.
>>45378409
Logic Knot just isn't a good card for the reasons already stated. It's a more mana-intensive version of Mana Leak on turn 2 (if you even have enough cards in the yard) and it's worse than Cryptic in the late game. Not to mention that you want to keep various cards in your graveyard since the control decks often win by just using Snapcaster for value.
>>45378428
Not with that attitude you won't
>>45378463
There are situations in which Pulse is better than Decay, but that doesn't stop BGx running 3-4 copies of Decay and just one Pulse. The question is which is the better general answer, not which is the better situational one.
>>45378485
And Logic Knot is rarely a better general or situational card than the other counterspells that the control decks run.
>>45378463
A lot of things are worse than Cryptic in the late.
Problem is that right now I wouldn't want to run Cryptic because by the time it's online you're probably dead and wishing to have had a way to stop spells earlier on in the game. It's like one-of material in my book, and even then I'd probably only run it in Faeries. Options mean jack shit if you're not alive to make use of them.
>>45378432
The amount of hoops you have to jump through in order to get a [minimal] return are such that I think the card is perfectly alright to print. Played 'fairly', a madness land would allow you to effectively negate one discard effect from you or your opponent. Ideally your opponent casts a mindrot on their turn and you actually end up ramping by one. The ideal situation here is using cards like Lightning Axe on your opponent's turn to get a 'free' removal spell and ramp your mana. It's worth noting however, that neither of those cards (swamp that ETB tapped and a 6 mana burn target creature for 5) are what you want to be playing outside of those specific interactions.
Played unfairly, you would probably most benefit from playing this card with Pack Rat or similar instant speed discard outlets. Retrace spells would also be made somewhat more powerful. It's important to note that playing a land via madness still takes up your land drop for the turn, meaning it's only possible to ramp through discarding the land on your opponent's turn.
Regarding Smallpox, Flagstones of Trokair already does what my proposed land would do, except it gives you a dualland and doesn't necessarily eat up your land drop for the turn. In a majority of cases, Flagstones would be superior to my proposed madness land.
>>45378463
Mana leak is shitty in Control decks though. You can't afford to run a bunch of dead cards with no deck manipulation to dump them when they're no longer needed, and Mana Leak becomes dead surprisingly fast when you run 4 Path to Exiles.
Also, Logic Knot and Cryptic are completely different cards and the fact you think they're comparable shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
Logic Knot is a 2 mana hard counter for most of the game. It's what allows you to wrath and hold up countermagic for their next threat, or win counter wars against other blue decks.
Cryptic can't do that because even though it's a much better spell, it still costs 4 fucking mana.
>>45378559
>Mana leak is shitty in Control decks though
Not when everyone's racing to 20 as fast as they can and tapping out every turn.
>>45378578
But eventually you'll stabilize and they'll be dropping their 1-2 mana threats on an empty board with 7 lands (3 of which you gave them with Path) and you'll die because Leak is useless.
How would you price a "Counter target spell. Its controller adds its CMC to their mana pool." Would it even be viable?
>>45378559
As >>45378578 says, Mana Leak is better than Knot when your opponent is tapping out every turn, you still get to counter the spell with Mana Leak without having to worry about what's in your graveyard.
>Also, Logic Knot and Cryptic are completely different cards and the fact you think they're comparable shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
You're correct, Cryptic Command is a good and modern playable card whereas Logic Knot isn't.
>>45378559
>running Path to Exile in Control
Would rather bleed myself from Vendetta than ramp the opponent, the way things are right now. Though maybe the right play would be to run Dismember since it deals with so many things.
>>45378578
Eldrazi decks are taking care of that, your biggest concern should be stopping them.
>>45378632
The effect is currently priced at 4cmc based on both that one Lorwyn counterspell that has Clash where winning it gives you the Mana Drain effect, and that one simic counterspell from RTR block that straight up gives you the actual mana used to cast.
>>45378630
You won't stabilise without Mana Leak and once you do have a stable board, you're able to start casting Cryptics and Snapcasters to answer their threats.
>>45378632
That's worse than Deprive on turn two.
>>45378652
>You're correct, Cryptic Command is a good and modern playable card whereas Logic Knot isn't.
That's wrong though.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11514&d=265507&f=MO
>>45378659
I don't see the point in really trying to beat Eldrazi, the deck is just so far beyond the rest of the Modern cardpool.
Either it eats a ban in a few months or we all quietly put away our decks and go play Legacy instead.
>>45378749
This deck finished higher in the very same event:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11514&d=265502&f=MO
>>45371298
How about you git gud and make a better deck, adapt you fucking cunt
