>Shadows over Innistrad
>The homogeneous white villages of the previous block are now full of black people
Can a flavour analysis explain this? Why the large scale migration of humans? Why the ready acceptance of dark-skinned foreigners by suspicious and embattled humans?
>>45255055
>Can a flavour analysis explain this?
No. It's reverse racism time at WotC.
>>45255055
Flavor Text of Moonveil Dragon (DKA):
>Their hearts beat, their lungs draw breath, and they have one true form. I count them as allies of the living. - Thalia, Knight-Cathar
If the citizens of Innistrad accept a giant flying lizard as an ally, why wouldn't they accept another human, regardless of what they look like?
Why do we give a shit?
>inb4 muh masserrace
They've hinted at going in a Lovecraftian direction.
The mongrelification of Innistrad could be a sign of its decline in the interim?
>>45255252
>why wouldn't they accept another human
A giant lizard won't breed with your daughters
There were always black people on Innistrad. Asians too. What have you been smoking OP?
>>45255309
>Won't breed with you daughters
Do you even dragon?
>>45255333
Innistrad vampire always struck me as vaguely feminine. I'd be more worried about breeding with my sons.
>>45255326
The card you bring up makes it seem like they were a group of outcasts living on the periphery of society. This is a far cry from the widespread acceptance we see displayed on the new Innistrad cards. Some giant social upheaval must have happened to overturn the deeply ingrained prejudices of the Innistrad villages.
Literally who cares?
And don't say some shit about "muh consistency" or "muh retcons"--the ending of Battle for Zendikar is far more egregious on that front than a simple change in melanin.
>>45255470
Wow. It's almost like that's exactly what happened at the end of the block.
More likely however, is that it was simply that none of the cards depicted the non-white citizens of Innistrad, when they were there the whole time. I have yet to see a card depicting a Innistrad baker, but I'm fairly certain they exist. Wizards decides what's in it's settings and there have always been black people in magic. Going back as far as the first handful of sets. There is no reverse racism. They probably only just realized they have to remind their artists to draw people of other skin colours more regularly, as most of them are white and therefore more inclined to draw people of the same colour.
>>45255055
you are dumb
>>45255326
like this anon said. there have always been several races mixed in on innistrad.
>>45255470
You're overthinking this. Because clearly, card art is an accurate demographic representation of the entire plane.
Maybe if nearly every person is black now, you'd have a point, but we have, what, one card?
>>45255055
>The homogeneous white villages
The whitests no doubt
>>45255553
This. Why the fuck does /tg/ throw a shitfit when black people are depicted on cards? This is /pol/-tier shitposting of the worst kind, noone else is so easily triggered by black people. I can kinda understand Theros, but it's one of the three blocks (the others being Portal and Kamigawa) that are pretty much race-locked. It really doesn't matter.
>>45255326
Tiago was from Innistrad too.He also should have been red, but I guess yellow is close enough.
>>45255654
>but we have, what, one card?
Exactly. This one card symbolizes their minority status.
>>45255683
>I can kinda understand Theros
Theros was upsetting because they took the set based on Ancient Greece and made sure not to include any white people.
With Innistrad, it's annoying because we have a set inspired by Germanic tales being black-washed.
The two situations are akin in some ways.
That's green, not black tho- oh.
>>45255755
>The two situations are akin in some ways.
Because the only people who care about it should stay in /pol/, where they belong?
>>45255683
Eh, Theros was fine. They had about equal parts white, black, and brown. It's inspired by Greece, not actually Greece. At least there weren't any Asians.
The only time race has been a problem for me in MtG was when two brown people produced a white ginger daughter with zero explanation.
>>45255801
>>>/tumblr/
>>45255755
I was always under the impression that Innistrad had more of a Salem influence, see pic related. However although you do have a point, settings are allowed to have multiple inspirations, taking some from whichever pot they see fit. It's fantasy with no direct links to history ala-Ancient Greece or Feudal Japan, it's not the worst setting to have a mixed populace in.
I swear to fucking God, you fucking crackers get as triggered as tumblr whenever you see a tiny amount of non white skin.
And this is coming from a white person.
>>45255291
>mongrel
>>45255055
i want to fuck his bbc
>>45255755
>made sure not to include any white people.
So, Ancient Greece?
>>45255291
Yes.
>>45255972
Tfw you will never purge the riff raff from every plane
>>45255885
>it's not the worst setting to have a mixed populace in.
With Innistrad, we have a setting where humanity regularly lapses into inhumanity.
Do you really think progressive social ideals like multiculturalism fit into this world?
>Stone a witch before hugging a gay.
>>45255055
A better question is, did any of the vampire noble families create black vampires?
>>45256004
No, not really. Did you do poorly in history?
>>45256065
Are trying to tell me that because people are paranoid about ghosts, demons, vampires, and other spooks they suddenly must also hate black people?
>>45256124
>paranoid about ghosts, demons, vampires, and other spooks
I note that werewolves and vampires can both pass as human and represent a threat from within. A world plagued by such threats will likely fear outsiders.
>>45256209
And why would people of color be outsiders? They might have been integrated for literal millennia before things got really bad.
>Villagers depend on food from outlying farms
>Most farmers have fled their fields or gotten slaughtered in them
>Food is scarce and the situation is dire
>Invite a bunch of black foreigners to join your villages
WHAT
>>45256065
1. We've yet to have a single confirmed gay on Innistrad.
2. I'd think that, with things like the shambling dead, bloodsuckers, and wolfmen running around, humanity would have bigger problems on their hands than "I don't like you because your skin is darker/lighter than mine". You're basically assuming that all planes automatically default to 18th-early 20th century views of race.
>>45256237
Well, Innistrad IS somewhat inspired by Germany...
>>45256234
>They might have been integrated for literal millennia before things got really bad.
This is possible, but doubtful. None of the cards in the first block suggest anything of the kind.
>>45256286
Do any of the cards in the first block suggest that racism is present?
Don't you idiots understand? Homogeneous white societies are a myth and never existed! Today's demographics are eternal.
>>45256309
I mean, I am on the not /pol/ side, but th only people of colour are grizzled outcasts and snap casters
>>45256270
>You're basically assuming that all planes automatically default to 18th-early 20th century views of race.
I'm actually assuming more of a 10th century perspective according to which race isn't a primary factor in determining one's outsider status. I have in mind a sort of tribalism.
>>45256348
Well, in any case there is only one continent on Innistrad, and it seems to be about Europe sized. So if there are people of other races, people would have to be pretty used to them by now
>>45256348
In which case the essential ruling power of the Church of Avacyn and the trade of vital resources between the four provinces wouldn't work due to tribalistic clashes. That is, unless you want to assume that the angels just cull all dissenters.
>>45256418
>the trade of vital resources between the four provinces
Is this something that actually happens? What are these resources? I'm genuinely curious and you seem well-versed in the lore.
>>45256409
A quick look at the warring nations of Africa will prove instructive.
>>45256491
Except, the villages in Innistrad aren't fighting each other. They're fighting spooks.
A village might have had black people in it for centuries and centuries. Why would they be outsiders?
Okay, you want an explanation? The vampire families, with all their decadence and narcissism, noticed that you become paler when you're turned. They then perpetuated a narrative amongst themselves that fair skin was a sign of purity and quality, and that darker skin tones were inferior and bestial.
When Avacyn was absent, the check on the vampires' influence was removed. So, while they cultivated humans to serve as food sources and be turned into vampires, they attempted to weed out the darker skin tones. People of color were hunted down and slaughtered. They didn't even drink from them because they didn't want to pollute their bodies.
Those of darker tones went into hiding, or were outcasts.
Then, with the return of Avacyn, the vampires were forced back, and people of color could come out of hiding and re-integrate into society. As an added bonus, you didn't have to worry about whether they were vampires in disguise because vampires would never "stoop" to turning one of them.
My issue with black people in Innistrad is due to the fact that Innistrad is described as a cold plane, like the entire plane is a temperate zone. It makes zero sense that humans on the plane would evolve in such a way that the amount of melanin would make their skin dark. Its not racist is fucking science.
I don't mind black people or asians in Innistrad but having a mixed population like we have in the real world is stupid. Either create a reason for having different races (like adding other continents) or just make everyone look more or less the same (white/black/whatever).
>>45256571
Vampires confirmed for Klansmen
>>45255055
Gotta meet those quotas.
>>45256557
>Why would they be outsiders?
Any number of reasons really.
Consider the following: The Greeks of the classical era though their Macedonian neighbors to the North were barbarian outsiders.
>>45256557
>They're fighting spooks.
I thought your whole point was that they wouldn't fight spooks.
>>45256609
Sure. Black and white people from one village think black and white people from the other village are weird outsiders.
What's the issue with that?
>>45255055
Just because black people weren't featured doesn't mean black people didn't exist just off-screen.What compels you to start shit, /pol/?
>>45256571
This explanation. This explanation is a good explanation.
>my card game isn't racist enough
Every time
>>45256630
You gotta fight spooks.
Honestly, I'd love an African mythology MTG set, just so I can watch the /pol/acks get in an autistic shit-fit spouting "WE WUZ KINGZ" and "AYO HOL UP" while making themselves look even more idiotic than before.
>>45256678
>Return to Jamuraa never
Damn shame.
>>45256678
I'd have preferred an actual POO IN THE LOO block. Kaladesh seems like a fucking cop out to me. Where are the many arms? Where are the rakshasa?
Look at how much of a better product you have now when you force these agendas though.
TFA clearly the best star wars media ever created, makes ESB look like shit.
Ghost buster action figures, can't stay on the shelves, literally people trampling others to get to them.
Just think how much better all the people who are solely playing MTG for card art will do now, they are going to destroy you in tourneys.
>>45256237
Why do you assume the blacks are foreigners?
>>45256678
Do you think an African mythology set or another Kamigawa would have diversity quotas for whites and Asians too? Would be weird to see, but there were some non-Asian humans in Khans I guess. Personally I wish WotC would just keep things consistent with the cultures they obviously rip from the real world or actually invent something new.
>>45256633
Once again, this is possible, but it requires so many narrative leaps that it becomes exceedingly implausible. We are imagining here distinct groups retaining their distinctness while forming a cohesive whole in the face of other groups which have somehow formed the same peculiar arrangement. The mind begins to boggle. The cards don't support it either.
>>45256678
>I'd love an African mythology MTG set
As a white separatist. I'd be happy to see this.
>>45256735
The cards DIDNT support it.
And Angels, demons, and a world with only one continent and no edges breaks my suspension of disbelief too.
WOTC PRINT ONLY EXACTLY EARTH ANAGOLOGUS PLANES FROM NOW ON.
>>45256270
People in North America and Europe who perceived shambling dead, wolfmen, and witches as very real threats had extremely negative dispositions toward non-whites, and even other European groups like the Irish. Multiculturalism is a purely modern, purely Western phenomenon.
>>45256720
>Why do you assume the blacks are foreigners?
An other anon mentioned that black-skinned humans come from warmer climates. Taking this as a given, these black-skinned humans would have had to come from a distant region.
>>45256733
>Expecting science and sociological consistency in a fantasy card game.
>>45256789
But there are no apes in Innistrad, nor environments where apes would be successful/walk upright. So how did humans evolve at all?
>>45256775
>and a world with only one continent and no edges breaks my suspension of disbelief too
I always got the impression that it was a world with one known continent.
>>45256789
That doesn't mean it has to have happened anytime even remotely recently. Innistrad's black population might have migrated there centuries ago.
>>45256795
>wanting 2010 US Census demographics in every set
Can't we go somewhere else for once?
>>45256065
Literally everything that is not a human on this plane is trying to kill you except angels.
Do you REALLY think anyone gives a flying fuck what color a human's skin is when the whitest people on the plane are bloodsucking monsters and anybody could be a fucking werewolf?
Racism is a waste of time you don't have when there's literal demons and monsters constantly at your gates. Every human you can get is helping to stave off the fucking extinction of your species. Multiculturalism isn't a matter, it's the fact that you can't fucking afford to have less than 100% manpower because a couple don't look like the rest.
>>45256831
I thought it was mentioned that if you sail out far enough you hit a wall of dense fog and eventually just come back out facing Innistrad anyway.
>>45256678
>Bitches don't remember Mirage Block
>>45256835
>That doesn't mean it has to have happened anytime even remotely recently.
Unless we have some sort of rigid caste system, their would have been substantial intermingling had the two groups encountered each other a long time ago.
Think of the Normans
>>45256861
>Literally everything that is not a human on this plane is trying to kill you except angels.
Speaking of, why are werewolves back? I thought Avacyn turned them all into wolfir or whatever, which was basically friendly werewolves stuck in beast mode. But we've already seen a werewolf transformer.
>>45256571
This is actually pretty good. Well done.
>>45256884
Well, clearly some shit is going down. That's the plot of the block that we don't know yet.
>>45256884
>Speaking of, why are werewolves back?
They were popular.
>>45256884
Some of the Wantons, who reveled in their monstrous forms, refused the Cursemute, and presumably can still infect new humans with the curse.
How long until Wizards get bent out of shape over these spoilers?
>>45256861
Humans aren't perfectly rational creatures.
It makes sense to unite in the face of extreme dangers, but often the opposite happens. imperiled humans become even more divided.
Xenophobia tends to thrive in times of need. History has demonstrated this time and time again.
>>45256875
Black Africans have been intermingling with white, indigenous and Spaniards in the Americas for several centuries now.
I notice there are still black, white, First Nations and Spanish people.
>madness is back
yayy
>flip cards are back
fuck that noise
>>45256733
I recall there being some white and Arab humans in the Mirage block, but they may have been confined to the third set Weatherlight, which was not set on Jamuura and had little connection to the Mirage story.
>>45256875
There's nothing to stop a large population from intermingling culturally with a larger population but still mostly only fucking within their own population due to different standards of beauty.
Asian populations tend to integrate really well into American culture but most still only marry and reproduce with other Asians. And despite what /pol/, interracial porn, and some black comedians will have you believe, black men still by and large prefer black women to white women.
>>45256963
That's due to long term discrimination/cultural segregation. Better to look at somewhere like Brazil where a lot more mixing has taken place.
>>45256953
History's never had an example where the dead and creatures from a stygian abyss walk the earth and constantly seek to destroy and devour the living.
The humans of Innistrad came together against impossible odds in Dark Ascension. It's that or die.
>>45256963
Those who have retained their distinctness in South America have lived in isolation due to status or geography.
>>45255055
>intial response to this
Who gives a fuck?
>read thread
Retards apparently
>>45256848
Never said I wanted that, but it's very funny seeing oblivious anti-SJW's getting just as triggered over "diversity" in geek media as Libtards are when an awards show is "whitewashed".
>>45257034
>>45257093
In this case, the lunatic fringes are those who would force exclusion and those who would force inclusion.
The moderate position is allowing game designers to cater to people like themselves without shame.
>>45257034
Honestly, I don't care. I just don't like this pressure to make everything in creative spaces conform to an idea of diversity (ie the removal of even depictions of homogeneous societies). I don't think WotC is necessarily "creatively compromised" or anything like that (they are a corporation with a vested financial interest in drawing as many demographic into giving them money), but putting your own stuff out there feels like walking a tightrope.
I don't like the idea of a secular dogma replacing the Christian dogma that formerly dominated our society. I think we would be better off without either.
>>45257200
>The moderate position is allowing game designers to cater to people like themselves without shame.
Basically this. People should be free to create regardless of dogma.
>>45256454
1. Yes.
2. Gavony's largest exports are the various holy orders of Avacyn, who are trained in Gavony and bring the light of the Church to other provinces. They are also the breadbasket of Innistrad, due to the relative security and safety of the land. Stensia exports sheep and sheep products, and logically will have to import a variety of vegetables in order to supplement their diet, given the poor soil of the region. Kessig exports lumber from their forests to the other provinces. Nephalia is the major trading region, and exports seafood and manufactured materials (as it is a largely commercial region and seems to be the most metropolitan province).
>>45257265
I do feel like homogenous societies are still depicted in MTG, it's just that for the most part they are non-human species such as the merfolk or elves or vampires.
>>45257265
>People should be free to create regardless of dogma.
Correct. And that means that, if what they want to depict is a heterogeneous society, they should not be criticized for doing so.
>>45257315
That's true. Honestly I dislike that too. It only stands to reason other species would have multiple cultures or races too. I guess it comes down to the same reason Star Wars always uses human main characters: people just can't relate to weird space aliens or elves.
>>45257389
I agree. It just strikes me as weird that a homogeneous society so obviously and extensively informed by a specific period of our own history has suddenly adopted traits of a society 200 years in the relative future.
I guess it would be like someone in 2200 writing a novel set in 2015 but there are still robots, or someone today writing a novel about the 1800s with Internet. Not because "black people" didn't exist, but because the concept of an extensively heterogeneous society is so tied to mid 20th century philosophy.
>>45256783
So I suppose that trade never existed between Europe and Asia before the 1800's, then? Or cultural exchange and influence, for that matter. No, every culture stayed in their neat little box like good tin people.
>>45257473
You're missing a step in that final example, not that I don't agree with you for the most part.
It's not so much that a novel set in 2015 written in 2200 would be weird if it still had robots, because it would be quantifiably inaccurate. It would be if somebody based their fantasy setting on 2015 but still had androids or whatever.
>>45257473
>I guess it would be like someone in 2200 writing a novel set in 2015 but there are still robots, or someone today writing a novel about the 1800s with Internet.
Or steampunk?
>>45257493
Contact for trade purposes was often strictly restricted.
Merchants were not always allowed to roam around.
>>45257473
By that logic, Ravnican society should be far, far more advanced in terms of social ideology than ours is. Given that, you know, the city's been running for over ten thousand years. For comparison, ten thousand years ago, we were just coming out of the Paleolithic.
>>45257620
And? That's where multiculturalism starts. Things on the world scale change very slowly, not all at once. The idea that multiculturalism emerged ex nihilo in the 1900's is a blatant denial of all the historical events leading up to it.
>>45257651
And Sorin was dressing like this over six thousand years ago, and had already created the Church of Avacyn.
As for us? Six thousand years ago, the Bronze Age began.
>>45257706
>The idea that multiculturalism emerged ex nihilo in the 1900's is a blatant denial of all the historical events leading up to it.
But it did explode though. It was only with the advent of inexpensive mechanical transportation that traveling large distances became commonplace. This, in turn, allowed what we call multiculturalism.
that's not to say contact didn't happen before, but it was qualitatively and quantitatively different before rails and roads spread across our planet.
>>45255722
Werewolves were outcasts that look exactly like normal human beings, except for having a tainted two-soul that made them anti-social.
Some of them can overcome their nature and be decent human beings to non-werewolves.
That there is a black werewolf character in your M:tG setting, shouldn't make you assume that that black people don't exist or are the result of vampires.
WotC is in the business to selling to everyone, and black people play M:tG.
That some of the employees decide to attempt to include black people in their settings in a way that lets black people self insert should get your ass blasted.
>>45257493
>>45257706
Come on man, don't try to act like the organized importing of millions of foreigners was ever a thing until the last few decades.
>>45257592
Steampunk goes out of its way to blend technology into a more or less "accurate" (as far as most hack writers can be bothered to research) depiction of society, though. Period sociology is usually a major theme, with things like monarchy, imperialism, exploration, poverty, an oppressed working class and an unabashedly dominant gentry being common. It wasn't until pretty recently you started seeing modern ideals being blended wholesale into genre fiction to create superficially inoffensive settings (beyond, again, misconceptions driven from lack of research or understanding of history).
>>45257651
The difference is that Ravnica isn't roughly analogous to a distinct and relatively recent time period on Earth. Innistrad is definitively based on gothic horror which was created in and depicted (for the most part) the societies of 18th/19th century Europe, long before the rise of state-enforced multiculturalism.
To the people saying "I don't care".
Would you still don't care if 'Return to Kamigawa' had 33% of the characters White, another third Black and the remaining Asians?
Be honest for once in your lives.
>>45257538
Anon. A fantasy setting in the early 1600's with motorcycles but none of the other prerequisite shit sounds stupid as fuck. Sorry.
>>45257902
As long as the Asian themes remained the same I wouldn't care.
>>45256345
Those might be the only people who are a clear real world ethnicities that are not white.
There are a quite few card arts with characters in positions where you can't really tell (obsuring clothing and such) their real world ethnicity. (Case in point, Champion of the Parish)
I'm not muscling through Innestrad's Art, because there are a lot of cards that don't depict humans period, and that makes it annoying to do.
>>45255055
Basically after decades of reading penny dreadfuls featuring generously endowed and swarthy foreigners the white women cajoled their husbands into accepting these men into their villages. For my full novella on what happened and what happens next, please read my future blog posts at http://magic.wizards.com
>>45257902
If it was a good set and maintained the shinto themes as they were in Kamigawa I wouldn't care.
It would be unusual, but there's a difference between something being unusual and something bothering me. Life's too short to get booty-bothered about the race of people in fantasy art.
Innistrad is still less unusual because as we were shown earlier in the thread black people already existed on the plane.
>>45257746
The short answer might be that fantasy writers have no sense of scale, and ehen they do, they say fuck it, and do what they want.
Does no one care they retconned the horrible wolfir and brought real weres back? Am I finally going to get my were legend??
>>45257902
Still wouldn't care. I can't give a fuck about how the human characters look.
The thing I'd be more worried about a return to kamigawa would be the whole plane turning into a superficial pop culture version of Japan with modern anime aesthetic.
>>45258062
MaRo already said they're done with worldbuilding anything deeper than the pop culture perception of a genre/culture because it's "exclusionary" and alienates people who don't want to do a lot of reading.
>>45257943
>>45258035
>>45258062
What if it were 100% black people?
You REALLY wouldn't think it would be worse from a purely aesthetical POV?
>>45258035
>Life's too short to get booty-bothered about the race of people in fantasy art.
You care enough to post in this thread and go searching for cards to sustain your position.
>>45257902
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY JAPAN, IT'S ALLOWED TO HAVE NON-ASIAN CHARACTERS.
![3081_210969419239025_2419829873713427385_n[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/dCKkyeb.png "3081_210969419239025_2419829873713427385_n[1].png")
>modernmagic.jpg
>>45258121
Gotta source?
>>45258157
He posted it on histumblrawhile back, it was a question specifically about Kamigawa. I'll see if I can find it.
>>45258128
You're moving goal posts there, fella.
>>45255804
holy shit what?
>>45258145
>Something I don't like is objectively bad and comparable to literal fecal matter
That's not even a strawman in greentext, that's literally the comparison you're making. You are not the final arbiter of what is and is not good.
>>45258128
It's a needlessly alarmist position to take.
>One card depicting a black guy is spoiled
>"WHAT THE FUCK?!!!?! THERE WEREN'T BLACK PEOPLE ON INNISTRAD!"
>Two or three cards depict that yes, there were, and it is likely two or three in SOI will be similar
>"OK, but what if we changed 100% of an established plane's races? What then?"
At the moment, we know there is one black guy being depicted in Shadows Over Innistrad.
There were three or so cards in the original innisrad block that depicted black people.
So far nothing has changed about the presentation of the plane's ethnicities and people are panicking for reasons that elude me.
I'd be willing to bet five bucks less than five cards in Shadows and its twin depict black people, and this was already a setting that had a black minority present in its art. People are getting worked up over nothing.
>>45258061
They done similiar things in terms of story telling.
There's a general theme of "there are no complete and utter destructions of big things in M:tG" and they have retconned stuff that kinda implied that but worked it in anyway.
(Old Mirrodin lets everyone soul trapped go back to ???, we still have a population of 1st generation immagrents mucking about as well as some people where the thing didn't take, Phyrexia takes over Mirrodin, the ideals of freedom still live in the surviviors scattered and the red mana Phyrexians who use of a empathy and freedom tool warps them as well)
Hell, even the death of the Eldrazi titans doesn't remove their menace and impact from the Zendikar setting, ignoring their immortality. The lie of their divinity makes some normal Zendikar maybe consider attempting to get the Eldrazi to return in some manner. The vampires still exists, and they are basically warped descendants of the Eldrazi and the natural world (the being that is Drana used to be a bit of Ulamog and some random ... human? and she is soemthing of a synthesis of might of the natural world and the eldrazi, who decided to help the natural world over the eldrazi at some point.
>>45258061
They didn't retcon anything. The Cursemute was a voluntary thing. Some chose to become wolfir, some chose to stay as werewolves.
>>45258121
What?
No way. Kamingawa might not have been the best set, but its aesthetic and theme were PERFECT.
>>45255683
Also mirage block
>>45257902
>afro samurai
Yes please.
>>45257889
>The difference is that Ravnica isn't roughly analogous to a distinct and relatively recent time period on Earth.
16th century Prague, dumbass.
>Innistrad is definitively based on gothic horror which was created in and depicted (for the most part) the societies of 18th/19th century Europe, long before the rise of state-enforced multiculturalism.
And Innistrad was like that six thousand years ago, too. Complaining that its social mores are 200 years more advanced than the "depicted" time period is complete horseshit when they've had six thousand years of that "depicted" time period with zero change.
>>45258061
They never retconned them
It's been canon that not all werewolves abided by Avacyn to become wolfir.
You must not like werewolves that much if you didn't know that shit.
>>45258145
>Yeah, a strawman ms paint comic! That'll REALLY show how wrong their opinions are!
>>45258128
>You REALLY wouldn't think it would be worse from a purely aesthetical POV?
But black people are more aesthetically pleasing than Asians, anyway.
>>45258250
And Kamigawa flopped, leading to any further depictions of other cultures being purely a pop rendition of them (see: Theros).
>>45258300
Don't you start this shit
>>45258260
Can you cite me a source for 16th century Prague being anything like Ravnica other than it having guilds?
>>45258259
I'll agree, taking black people and lets them do Japanese stuff makes stuff that's fucking sick.
>>45258309
Kamigawa flopped because it was a bad set mechanically.
>>45256609
Barbarian in greek means "not able to speak greek correctly", so any one who was not greek, and most of the greeks with a different dialect
>>45258259
>Afro Samurai
>Not Yasuke, retainer of Oda Nobunaga
>>45256678
We already had a full-africa mythology set. With african vampires!
>>45258337
Not according to WotC.
>>45258200
>>45258237
From what I understand, your position is that "race doesn't matter no matter what".
Just wanted to check out if that's really it.
>>45258342
Which illustrates my point that small differences like one's dialect can often make you an outsider in the pre-modern world.
>>45258365
>african vampires
>>45258342
That's not what it means in Greek, it's an onomatopoeia for nonsense sounds (i.e. anything spoken that's not Greek).
>>45257315
to tell the truth, most races vary a lot in their structure.
For example, most goblins are stupid, but they have different kinds of stupidity across the planes
>>45258365
Is there a reason to not revisit those themes?
I mean, yes, Time Spiral and a few Commander Products did bring back Tefari, who is a representative of that (as well as Urza's Saga/Invasion stuff)
>>45256735
>Once again, this is possible, but it requires so many narrative leaps that it becomes exceedingly implausible.
You're talking about a card game in which exceedingly powerful wizards with the ability to wander freely among different planes of existence use magical spells and summoned minions to fight gigeresque nightmares and eldritch abominations from beyond space and time. At what point does that suggest that evolution or sociopolitical circumstances have to be identical to the way they are in the real world?
>>45258427
Yeah, but what I meant was that most planes had the non-human species tend to be a singular culture and race. The elves had some tribes, but for the most part elves are monoliths on each plane. Goblins are monoliths, etc.
>>45258416
... your " onomatopoeia for nonsense sounds" sounds like something that would be used to describe people who speak a different language.
>>45258381
You have a bad understanding of what seems to be the majority of people's positions then. This is a incredibly small detail in a fantasy setting with no obligation to portray realism. It doesn't really matter.
Social Justice has infected WotC.
Get out now. Or make your own card game and sell it as a game on Steam. (Youc an sell 'packs' of digital cards.)
>>45256884
Not all of them. There are a lot of werewolves who hate what they are and when Avacyn came back, they begged her for restoration. She tried, but she couldn't do it, so she gave them the choice to become Wolfir.
Naturally, there are werewolves who weren't going to have any of that crap.
Wew
>>45258473
It would be used to describe them, but it's not what the word is derived from or what it "means" - which is βαρ-βαρ-βαρ-βαρ, basically barking to indicate dumb sounds.
>>45258485
>This is a incredibly small detail in a fantasy setting with no obligation to portray realism. It doesn't really matter.
Again, then why would you not be ok with full-black Kamigawa? Would that be too much?
>>45256093
> Greeks
> white
You get to pick 1, ok?
>>45258260
>16th century Prague
>clearly 18th century dress, like tricorns
>>45258545
If the original theme of Kamigawa was Nigga Samurai then no. But it wasn't so it would be.
>>45255055
>>45255106
Lore and Racism has nothing to do with it, it comes back to one thing money. Wizards is getting fucked over by online secondary markets way more than your LGS. Now any player can get their hands on ANY card. Back in the early 2000's most towns had one maybe two LGS, if they did not have the card in stock be it casual or spike, you then had to hope to trade or just start cracking packs. Then starcity and tcgplayer came and maybe it easy as fuck to get the card you need. Yes Wizards still made money form the first sale, but this reduced the amounts of packs being opened. Now if you look at wizards in the last three years that have a game plan.
1. Sell more packs
2. Bring more people into the game
Well how do you do this, look at your player base, mtg is mainly filled with players from nerd culture. Ok, lets look at nerd culture, there has been a growth in diversity (Blacks and Mexicans), women, gays, and trans people. WotC looks at it's player base and sees white guys in there 20's and 30's buying single cards off tcgplayer. So they want to bring on that younger (high school - college) as well as that more diverse player group mainly women. The best part about younger or female demographic is that they don't know you can buy singles online, or they can't they rather buy packs because they can go to target or walmart and buy packs. So how do you get these people simple more diverse characters and a baby easy to follow story. You ever wonder why UR felt like bad fanfiction or why we have gay, trans, and even autistic characters in the lore and as cards. It's because WofC is appealing to those types of people more likely to buy packs, and you know what it works. After Dragons with Alesha (Trans) and Narset (Autistic) support for them blew up for wizards on tumblr and those little idiots went out and bought pack after pack to get that card that they identified with.
>>45258606
>Everything has to be exactly the same as it was before
Why bother making a new set then.
>>45257902
It would be very strange, given what we've seen of the plane.
>Werewolves still have the same flip clauses meaning they'll still only ever be vaguely useful in limited while going directly against the cards inherent aggressive nature
You had a chance to fix it. To make them playable, and you pissed it all away.
I'm not even surprised and yet I'm still mad.
>>45258606
It's a shame Afro Samurai wouldn't translate well to a MTG setting. That was a fun watch.
>>45257822
Acceleration isn't spontaneous generation.
>>45258543
You have an understanding of language that I feel isn't useful for moving around the world, but am conscientious enough to know that I don't have the whatever it takes to convince you otherwise.
.... I don't expect you to reveal that knowledge of how to change your opinion to me.
>>45258655
I didn't like the movie much. It was much better as just an idea and concept art.
>>45257889
When did I ever imply that? I simply suggested that the relaxation of borders and the mass importation of cheap labor were both simply the result of historical trends that had their roots in things that occurred centuries previous, and not, for example, the result of a secret cabal of wealthy bankers manipulating the governments of the West.
SNAPCASTER MAGE
>>45257902
No, I wouldn't.
>>45258721
...won't be reprinted. They said it was a mistake and it'll be a chase card for Modern Masters 3. Chances of reprint in the new set are nil. If like to see Flashback again though, may be a bit busted with prowess though.
>>45256571
10/10
>>45258559
Where on Ravnica have you seen a tricorn?
>>45258606
But that's what people are complaining about this set.
Old Innistrad had like 5 or so non-european people, yet one of the few cards spoiled so far stars a non-european person.
I guess it could be an exception just like before, but considering WoTC in recent years, doubting is legit.
>>45258800
So if there are four or less other cards that depict a non-european character absolutely nothing has changed from when Innistrad came out except nobody got mad about Cathedral Sanctifier being black.
Even from a flavor perspective it can still be justified in that the human population resurges under angelic protection until this new disaster happened, which probably included some of the black guys that we know were already there.
I don't think this is something to get upset about over a single spoiler.
>>45258789
>Where on Ravnica have you seen a tricorn?
>>45258789
Disregard that, I suck cocks.
Thought he meant Innistrad.
>>45258855
That's... not a tricorn.
>>45258850
>nobody got mad about Cathedral Sanctifier being black.
I was a little upset.
It seems like every single holy figure is now a black woman now. Pathfinder opened the floodgates.
>>45255055
holy hell thats only an uncommon?
thats actually a pretty good card.
Nigger worship, plain and simple. America was founded on nigger worship, after all.
>>45258800
>one of the few cards spoiled so far
was a random card from a booster. The timing of the spoiler has absolutely indication of what the rest of the set is going to be like.
>>45258902
errr. I wouldn't give Paizo the credit, and that's because I am super fucking salty about them as a respresentative of 3.x style RPGs which excludes the fuck out of people who like playing combat with interesting martial characters.
I also like art of black ladies (and white ladies, and white guys, and black guys, and so on and on) so anything where art is less likely to be samey is good by me.
>>45258855
That is not a tricorn.
>>45258902
Eh, that's not true, there's been plenty of clerics of other races.
Angels tend to be white, too.
>>45255055
>black werewolf
>sly depiction of the savagery lurking behind a civilised visage
>>45258636
Holy shit I never thought of it that way
So, nobody will actually discuss the cards? Or did I missed a thread?
>>45259412
People discussed them. New clue tokens are neat. Nahiri is doing red shit and being Nahireeeeeeeeee
>>45258636
>They don't sell the same number of packs
That's not true, to buy your stupid mythic expedition, starcitygames had to open the same number of packs that you would have cracked to buy one. the number of packs opened remains the same, cause they have a lot of customers that don't want to buy packs, so they buy tons of packs and sell what the customer really wants. the things that change is Who really is buying the packs. and is not you, nor your lgs playerfags, but a giant company that can reliably buy tons of boxes and open them. Wizards don't loose a cent on the secondary market, if they did, they would not have done the reserved list even if the collectors whinned all day. the reality is: they want more new players cause oldfags and nostalfags are leaving the game cause the changes to powerlevel and complexity, so they want to pull more people to play the game, that would buy cards to star of david games, that would buy lots of boxes to Jews of the coast, in thanks to that, wizards will mantain an artificial scarcity that will make profitable the buy of tons of boxes.
>>45255959
Tiny amount of non white skin, Innistrad hates furrys?
>>45256571
What happens to blackulas?
>>45259551
So are they just riding the trend of Muh' Diversity because that's what's happening in nerd culture?
>>45259623
Obviously they want new players so they will use every aspect they can to get them, even if they are tranny or niggers, but they don't do it to sell boosters, but to have an stablished big number in the playerbase
The real travesty is there being dragons in Return to Ravnica. Niv Mizzet genocided them all to death before the first block. A couple survived but they were barely dragons.
Now we return and apparently he missed a bunch. Or they pop into existence out of nowhere whenever he isn't looking.
Fucking disgusting. Niv Mizzet is the one true dragon of Ravnica.
>>45255055
also that guy is clearly wearing a mask and I think is white under it
>>45259697
Do those groups eve play Magic, or just complain about it?
>>45259962
wait, I thought complaining but not actually playing was the correct approach to Magic.
>>45259551
>the changes to powerlevel and complexity,
Just say the game is getting fucking lame as hell. This new block is just going to be the same as the old. There's not going to be anything interesting or fun like it was in the old series.
>>45258365
Wait, what? What set was this?
>>45258855
Still pissed this bitch didn't have 'Vampire Advisor' as its type
>>45260373
Mirage...
>>45255309
Only because his lizard-dicks will split 'em before any breeding can be done.
>>45258337
Let's not forget that it came right after Mirrodin as well, creating quite the terrible Standard.
>>45258357
The stories surrounding how badass this guy was were probably responsible in part for Afro Samurai.
>>45256234
>And why would people of color be outsiders? They might have been integrated for literal millennia before things got really bad.
If they were integrated for that long, interbreeding would have smoothed out all the differences. Everyone would be quadroons.
You only get racial differences in close-knit communities when:
1) the species has been seperated into geographical populations long enough to generate them in the first place (10,000 years since we left Africa).
and 2) said populations have only recently started to reintegrate (less than 500 years of major interbreeding).
The world's current state of affairs is not a stable state: it's half-way between hardly mixing at all and totally mixed. Which one ends up the dominant state again is up for grabs (or we could all just split off again and re-divide geographically).
So, this is just a random question about the lore, but do the worshipers of Avacyn realize that a vampire made their angel?
>>45258552
I pick go fuck yourself, /pol/.
Which ethnicities are white then? Are Occitans? Spaniards? Just the fucking Germans?
>>45261255
>implying arguing about who and who isn't white doesn't make you jut as /pol/
>>45256865
Piss of grandpa, I was 2 when Mirage came out.
>>45261255
Argentinians
>>45261255
The ones who didn't involve a great people of intermixture with peoples from Asia Minor and North Africa. So not the Greeks.
>>45258636
Dude, what the fuck are you even talking about?
>>45260097
Looking at /tg/ I'd agree with you.
Hell, my modern meta is just that.
>>45260554
That standard season being terrible was Mirrodin's fault, not Kamigawa's. Kamigawa/Ravnica standard is widely considered to be one of the format's high points.
YOU FUCKING SHITLORD
Fuck you wotc.
Cardboard market is unsustainable.
MTG is tired as fuck.
FFG will destroy you.
5-10 years these cards will be used as kindling.
YOU killed the minotaur for hasbro, WHATCHYA GONNA DO WHEN HIM COME CALLN'?
>>45258855
It bothers me that the Simic emblem isn't on that card, but the Dimir emblem is.
So what's the deal with this set, did the planeswalkers won in Zendikar or what?
>>45262850
...I never noticed that. Now I'm angry.
>>45259551
>starcitygames had to open the same number of packs that you would have cracked to buy one
>implying WotC doesn't own Star of David Games and isn't supplying them expeditions tosll
oy vey, get a load of this goy
>>45255683
i really *don't* get the fuss over theros, as a hell of a lot of trading happened between greece and egypt.
>>45258223
Chandra.
>>45263222
racism, anon. Including a black person shatters the illusion that Greece was a glorious Aryan paradise that became the foundation of all western culture because there were no minorities to hold them back.
>>45255755
where did you get the weird idea that Greeks were white? Also, did you know Greece is right across the Mediterranean from Africa?
>>45263340
but... greeks aren't even white. sort of. Not germanic white anyway.
>>45263457
nobody ever accused racists of being intelligent.
>>45263357
>Also, did you know Greece is right across the Mediterranean from Africa?
Are you implying that Africans moved to ancient Athens, and none of the extant literature mentions this?
>>45263527
>un-ironically liking non-whites
>>45256678
Mirage is one of the best sets.
I don't want modern wizard's anywhere near it.
>>45255055
/pol/ pls go
>>45255055
MONGRLES N THUGS
>>45255568
Hell, the second Big/little/little block was Mirage Block, set in Jamuraa, basically Africa, with nary a Mighty Whitey in sight
It was the block that gave us PHAAAAAAAAASING and is, therefore, the best block.
>>45255885
>I was always under the impression that Innistrad had more of a Salem influence, see pic related
The witches of Salem were hanged, not burned. Burning was a European thing.
>>45255055
Look more closely at the art. His skin is differently colored around the mouth, indicating either a mask or a really nasty skin condition.I suspect both, because the paler skin around his mouth also seems kind of mottled.
>>45255055
>back to zendikar,
>back to Innistrad
>Back to ravnica
>back to myrodin
FUCKING HELL WIZARDS! WHY CAN'T WE GO BACK TO MORE BASED SETS LIKE SHADOWMOOR OR KAMIGAWAbastards didn't even make more of best based arcbound when we went back to myrodin
>>45255804
Pia is definitely darker-skinned, but Kiran looks fairly pale, and we don't know how the Kaladeshi genome compares to the Terran one. This isn't surprising to me: the Indian subcontinent is nearly as large as continental Europe, and contains about a many ethnicities. It is only *extremely* recently that India came together in any kind of united way.
As for the red hair, eh. Ridiculous world of magic. Chandra's powerful innate fire-magic or planeswalker spark may have made her be born with red hair.
>>45255055
Is this for real? Even if Grizzled outcasts didn't exist black people in a european town is hardly shocking.
>>45261250
The Lunarch and a few others know, as I recall.
I've always wondered about the other angels, personally. They were around in the time before vampires so Sorin didn't create them. What do they think of Avacyn? It looks like most of them sort of look to her as a queen or mother figure, but...
>>45268420
Upper region indians are the fair skinned indo aryan people. These are the pretty/handsome ones you usually see in the movies.
Lower region indians are the black / shitskin ones.
>>45268451
Sorin was an Oldwalker when he created Avacyn, so he easily could have disguised himself as a normal human or something when presenting his daughter to the other angels.
(I like to imagine Avacyn as totally acting like Sorin is her daddy, while Sorin acts like Avacyn is his little girl. But that's me)
>>45268661
I do prefer the "dutiful daughter" interpretation of Avacyn to "Avacyn is a robot" too. Wizards seems to lean a bit more towards "Avacyn is a robot," though, which is a bummer.
>>45268619
De gustibus non disputandum est.
I would not call this lady's skin "shit".
>>45268704
>Wizards seems to lean a bit more towards "Avacyn is a robot," though, which is a bummer.
When presented with two paths, Wizards will always take the worst one :(
>>45259551
Bullshit. A distributor like SCG ensures that cards are distributed much more efficiently. Before, you opened a shitload of cards that you didn't particularly want in the pursuit of the ones you did if you wanted to play competitively. Now, SCG opens enough packs to satisfy demand - and since they're able to divvy up pack contents among the people who want only some of the cards from each, fewer packs ultimately wind up being open.
For a very simple example, imagine one person wants a Monastery Swiftspear for their Jeskai deck and the other wants a copy of Zurgo Helmsmasher for their janky EDH deck. Without a SCG-like distributor, they'd each need to buy separate packs, and the spare cards sit in their collection until a favorable trade comes around (which may never happen). With one, SCG can open one pack to satisfy both players.
Now, most of the chase cards are going to be Rares or Mythics, sure, which means you do need 1 pack per player, but between the occasional low-rarity card of value and the existence of foils occasionally putting 2 rares in the same pack, in large numbers there's going to be a measurable change in the numbers of opened packs.
