What would it take to "fix" 40k?
>how would models be manufactured
>what would be the price point
>how would you avoid power creep
>how do you return balance
>what needs to be cut
>what needs to be added
Hard-mode:
>don't lose any old fans
>bring in new players
No one here is qualified to answer this.Now check 'em.
>>44871212
That is a nice looking shop.
>>44871212
More women and diversity :^)
>>44871212
Is that Brookhurst Hobbies?
>>44871606
Well if you broaden this snarky remark to mean a larger playerbase period...then yeah. That would work. We definitely need more people playing this game if we want it to last/not cost two fortunes. I mean I'd prefer if these new players were chill and fun to play with, but beggars can't be choosers as the hobby slowly dies.
>>44873908
Women don't have hobbies until they're 40.
>>44873908
Best way to do that would be producing QUALITY 40k vidya, and releasing all rules for free.
If people play a 40k game they might be interested in playing the tabletop, and if they can just download all the rules (maybe official video summaries of the most basic stuff), then they might be interested in buying the models and playing.
Also: official prepainted models. Nobody who is new to a hobby and had no desire to paint wants to go through the process of finding someone to pay to paint your army.
>>44876676
This would do it.
>>44871212
>Game first, collectable minis second.
>Fire current board/ceo and replace with those who respect their customer base.
>get out of their way and let them do their thing
Seriously, this is where all of GWs problems come from.
>>44876676
All of this. People are gobbling up Vermintide like it's the second coming of Dark Souls. Share around those licenses and let the vidya flow. Hell, reactivate Necromunda as a horror shooter/RPG hybrid and ship a starter kit with collector's editions of the vidya.
>>44876777
>People are gobbling up Vermintide like it's the second coming of Dark Souls
I thought it died out in its first months.
>>44871558
>>44872142
Gator Games
>>44876886
1100 people playing it atm, which is 10x less than Left 4 Dead 2.
I think the game would be a lot more fun without things like flyers, knights and other stuff that does not really fit the 28mm scale. And if smaller games were more the norm, a few squads/vehicles a side.
Release Epic again for huge stuff like that.
>>44871212
>price point
Same as it is now, except have bundles and flash sales that make things roughly 10-20% cheaper on kits.
>Balance and power creep
Set up a well defined system for how many points certain things are worth, and apply it across the board.
That's about it really. Having sales and actually using a brain when designing armies
>>44876937
Whilst that is pretty shitty numbers, they'll probably look at copies sold rather than concurrent players. S'all abaht that dosh innit
>>44876967
>>44876974
Combine these. Vehicle cheese chases out noobs and takes up a fuckton of physical space. Rework the rules to account for that but expand the range of vehicles so a table sees a ton of variety. Provide quarterly releases. Even if it's just shit like a slightly stronger but unstable plasma firing rule.
>>44876773
underrated post
>>44876676
This.
I want a dawn of war 3 like the first one but with more shit.
Buying branded miniatures from the same company that makes the rules is generally a bad path to go down
>>44876967
Yeah this. It's a skirmish rule set depicting a battle covering a couple hundred meters square. Trying to deploy a tank battalion in that size area is just silly.
>>44876974
they will never do sales, because the small amount of market research they actually bothered with told them if they have a once a year sale, basically people hold off to buying till then. So why bother when all it means is less profit for them.
>>44877135
>mocks gw products
> has not one but two official gw measuring tapes in picture.
>hire the artists again, the good ones
>let the releases be discussed by the creative team first
>slow down the release schedule a bit and concentrate on doing quality rather than QUALITY design influenced by impositions of time and quantity
>prices stay the same, but bundles with discounts are way more common
>it's a setting, not a story: concentrate on expanding the lore laterally rather than linearly
>the ruleset booklet is free, codices' and expansions' are not, FAQ and errata get updated regularly to fix point costs and rules
>tone down the mass part of mass battles by a bit, big centerpieces should be that, centerpieces not units; move to an alternate activation system, scalable to apocalyptic battles with the use of tokens to activate multiple units in number reltive to the points of the battle, ideally between 3 and 10 total activations to make an army move/shoot per phase (army composition and formations may indicate what units are more likely to move together with the least tokens)
>be more open to what is being in the work, have ways for the fans to send suggestions in the form of polls
>have yearly worldwide thematic campaigns to sell the supplements, the themes should be light but loose, no galaxy shattering events, but reconstructions of old or new fluff pieces, the narrative in these don't have to follow all factions, but the results of other factions during the campaigns could lead to enough data to release something accordingly in the new years painting in the meanwhile the activity of the community all around the world, possibly making it more cohesive.
>Small releases like the mechanicus are the best to introduce or reintroduce reworked armies, see sisters of battle
>now that you've spent many resources making quality addictive content, gets into the money making with multiple video-games tied to the setting that do not involve commanding armies; RPG, moba, shooters from the third person to the titan version are all candidates.
Produce CM professionally.
>>44877161
>silly
It's motherfucking 40K
If there's one game where everything should be silly, it's this.
>>44876967
This 1000 times.
>>44871212
>how would models be manufactured
Plastics. Finish phasing out metals and finecrap. Overhaul SOB or squat them.
>what would be the price point
Nothing wrong with the current cost of things
>how would you avoid power creep
Who cares? it's 40k. It's not meant to be strictly balanced or competitive. Fuck, it doesn't even need to make sense if it's fun.
>how do you return balance
Don't
>what needs to be cut
Reduce SM to one or two big books
>what needs to be added
Nothing. Too many armies as is.
>Hard-mode:
>don't lose any old fans
Ok, stay the course
>bring in new players
ADVERTISE. Could you imagine how many players their would be if GW did even a little advertising outside of their own material. 40K TV ads would draw thousands of new players.
>>44877558
'Staying the course' is what is driving people away because they are fed up with the course. Poor balance actively harms fun if the army you enjoy is at a noticeable disadvantage.
And Guardsmen are £1.80 a model, Space Marines are £2.50 and Fire Warriors are nearly £3. The current price are insane.
>>44871212
Hard reset, all armies codex's are released at the same time and are included in the core rule book.
Every couple of months release a new campaign idea/other hombrew ideas for players to create their own scenarios.
Reboot old school white dwarf magazines (given the modern age probably also offer an online subscription)
Six months or so before a new edition have a free beta test ruleset be released on the website and allow for player feedback.
Get the website's articles and forums back up and running and set about updating all of the old model lines.
Continue production of models as-is however reduce the prices somewhat, back to how they were a few years ago would probably do well and also keep the cash flow coming.
Finally, stop the company from being publicly traded.
>>44877124
Pretty much, yes. All of that sweet sweet 40k over the top badassery with more units on the field, more unit types, more armies, more maps, and fuckhuge battles.
Ultimate apocalypse mod ain't cutting it no more. I need my sugar.
>>44877175
Then just do the first half and make bundles an actual value. It doesn't even have to be a cray good deal like the new start collecting boxes.
That males people more likely to buy models they didn't really want in the interest of 'savings'
>>44877366
Now I want a 3rd person shooter where you play a titan and kill shit on massive scales.
Damn you.
>>44877124
I don't think that would save 40k
That being said, I too want DoW3 and want it to be more like the first one.
>>44877926
It wouldn't, but having lots of 40K games even when the main product dies is better than the IP going to waste.
>>44876967
But... but I like the big modles...
>>44871212
>>how would models be manufactured
Kingdom Death quality.
>>what would be the price point
Given for free to grognards.
>>how would you avoid power creep
Make my army the best, nerf everything else.
>>how do you return balance
If my favoured army is clearly superior and always win, then the balance is correct.
>>what needs to be cut
Support for the other armies.
>>what needs to be added
Tits.
>Hard-mode:
>>don't lose any old fans
Allow each grognard to play by the rules of his first rule-set because it was the best version of Warhammer ever.
>>bring in new players
Tits.
>>44871212
Whoa. Your FLGS still has the all-in-one army boxes? Where is that?
>>44877212
They're the cheapest imperial measuring tapes in sensible-land.
>>44871212
>What would it take to "fix" 40k?
A miracle.
>>how would models be manufactured
Same way as now, but with some competent designers.
>>what would be the price point
Same as now, but shaft Australia a bit less. Their prices are just insane.
>>how would you avoid power creep
By not making power creep rules.
>>how do you return balance
By rethinking the entire game from the gound up. This is the cheap part. Hiring 5-10 competent game designers costs nothing in comparison to the rest of the manufacturing process.
>>don't lose any old fans
>>bring in new players
You will have to break some eggs.
> have only ever played vidya.
> originally downloaded some Space Marine models for Unreal Tournament GoTYE because they looked cool.
A long LONG time later a friend bought me DoW because I liked StarCraft.
That was it. I was hooked. I had to know everything about this universe.
> bought a ton of the HH series.
> ended up getting all the expansions for DoW, DoW2 (Which I did not like as much), Kill Team, Space Marine, and Regicide (sucks)
> love the fucking Adeptus Astartes with a passion.
> BUT will never, unfortunately, buy or play the tabletop.
> have nothing against it and I have so much fun coming here, reading and discussing the lore.
> looked at their store and I would love to have, like, one or two little SMs of my favorite chapters but I have ZERO artistic talent to try and paint
All that said I don't know how you would save 40k
It would cost SO MUCH
I've never met another human being in real life that even knows what 40k is
Never seen an advertisement in any form ever. My friend found DoW in a bargain bin, knew I liked vidya and played ONE RTS
I knew about the other games because I followed it afterwards
And the games are... I mean... I like them... but they're not... mindblowing in any way
And oh god that movie...
So SPEND money to advertise to a larger audience
and SPEND MORE MONEY to increase the quality of what you're putting out
-Continued
>>44878562
As a non-player of tabletops if you want ME to start playing (And I know most of you won't like this answer)
AS IT STANDS tabletop gaming is really only passed on through friends or family
The sheer amount of knowledge, rules, measuring, artistry is DAUNTING to those first introduced to it.
You need to appeal to a broader audience and that means bringing in more Fffilthy casuals
This might mean a large overhaul of the game itself
Yes. Free rules, alternatively rules come with armies
> speaking of which
DUMBED DOWN, SIMPLER RULES
I do not, nor do I know anyone who wants to break out a ruler and a book every time you want to do something
Dice are fine. Maybe little trading-cards that come with your specific units that have their specific rules for movement, attack, and defense for easy reference
Premade, preassembled, prepainted, standardized armies and boards/mats/arenas to play on
>>44878562
>>44878587
Pricing is fine. It's a bit restrictive from what I hear, but I suppose bigger specialty shit should be. If you want it enough you get it. Trash of Duty: Trash (roman numeral trash) is $60 and then the season pass is probably another $60.
And unpainted, unassembled groups should still be sold for the people that DO enjoy painting and putting together their own little personal stuff
Everything I'm throwing out here would cost A LOT though. All this means production or a LARGER ARRAY of MORE DIVERSE products plus the aforementioned advertisements and other quality products to get the IP more well known. That's scary.
>>44877924
>>44877924
>Implying what you actually want isn't a 3rd person cooperative shooter where you can pilot small knights on yout own or big titans with your mates against other titan legions on battlefields where infantry are just extra points swarming the objectivesexcept for the sly titan-killers devastator teams
>first DLC is death squadrons alternative (if tech wills it, combined) mode
>>44871212
>how would models be manufactured
The same but at half the size. The average 40K table just isn't enough room to manoeuvre given the speed of the models and the range of the guns. At the moment armies start off at fairly short range, run around like retards and stop a few turns later like grimdark musical chairs. This'll also make the bigger units look impressive without being as retardedly huge as they currently are.
>what would be the price point
About half of what it is now. Around £200 an army is the goldilocks zone. Make it compete with Dropzone Commander or Firestorm Planetfall.
>how would you avoid power creep
Army lists in the core books with add-on units in expansion books. Don't do one army at a time over years, do them all in waves.
>how do you return balance
Reward careful positioning and manoeuvres over just having the most powerful guns/swords. Give people enough room to avoid the D weapons and reward faster armies like DE for being fast whilst also giving Deep Strike a new use for reaching stuff you'd never catch, but risking units getting cut off.
>what needs to be cut
Fuckhueg units on a 6' table, D weapons and hull points, all the stupid rules introduced in the post-rending world.
>what needs to be added
Movement trays for our new 14mm overlords.
Trow codexes and rule-books out of the window. These things complicate gaming for new players far too much. You shouldn't have to read two books to play a game.
The way to go would be to release all rules for free, one PDF as a download that contains all rules, and only the rules. One PDF for each faction with specific stats and special rules, and separate hard/softcover books sold in stores.
Another thing that would save a lot of money would be contractors for models.
The idea is, that GW can give out licenses to companies, these companies are then granted the right to produce a specific model. As long as it fits the art-style and matches the quality requirements they can do whatever they want with the models. Make sure that there are always multiple contractors for the same model/army. This way they will compete to offer the best prices to the customers and capitalism will fix that problem. This would also mean that you would get more options to pick from as a player.
It would lead to a decrease in prices, an increase of variety, a decrease in spending on GWs side, and would allow GW to focus 100% on crunch and fluff.
>>44877968
I wouldn't mind 40k becoming a purely vidya based setting, maybe with new novels and books.
Was something like that ever done actually? I know that some vidya stuff turned into table top, and movie stuff too, but how about the opposite?
>>44876967
Nah, big models are expensive to make/sell/buy/paint. I would rather opt for scaling things down a lot more.
Currently you will run into trouble building a proper IG army for 500 points without buying like 50 or so models+paint, unless you go for vehicles. This means that new players will have to spend massive amounts of money/time on stuff that they might not actually like, which is a deterrent.
Obviously a compromise has to be made, and that would be to reduce minimum balanced game size, while also increasing maximum balanced game size.
>>44871212
First go back a few editions.
Back to 5th for just a workable game, and try to improve model lines and balance out the power creep.
Or go back to 3rd for just the core, and try to make a good game from that. But you know actually learn from all the mistakes they made.
>>44876967
Also this.
40k is a small skirmish game, or at least it is supposed to be.
>>44877725
>Hard reset, all armies codex's are released at the same time and are included in the core rule book.
>Every couple of months release a new campaign idea/other hombrew ideas for players to create their own scenarios.
>Reboot old school white dwarf magazines (given the modern age probably also offer an online subscription)
3rd era basically.
>>44877874
Hey bro, you should try out the titanium wars mod if you want something different
>>44879605
DLing right now. Thanks!
>>44876676
I got into 40k after buying Dawn of War Dark Crusade
>>44879885
You're welcome man, I'm actually playing it right now
Transition from ZANY SCI-FI version of Fantasy and move towards more "realistic" wargame presence in terms of unit variation and loadout/special rules and game pace
e.g. IG squads can take a greater variety of weapons like hellguns, shotguns, heavy stubbers, man portable AT etc
Chimera's can be loaded out with mortars, Light AA and so on
Treat 40k more like its own period in history instead of a comicbook.
Next remove the shooting, moving assault phase all together and replace it with the activation phase like in Epic. Activate a unit move/shoot/assault it then the second player can activate a unit. This order proceeds until all units have moved. This makes tabling an opponent almost impossible.
Then focus on implementing Epic into a larger strategic version of 40k that can be played as a grand campaign mode in the same vein that Planetary empires can be. Increasing the table size of both epic and regular 40k. All the while having gameplay remain the same. Implementing rules to seamlessly set up 40k battles from epic setups if you so wish to play that way.
Finally Focus on more gametypes. Outside of head to head, have a greater focus on scenarios and set piece battles.
e.g. Ambushes. Specific order of battles. Preset list scenarios (2 guard squads waiting on Space marine reinforcements till turn 3, or something to that effect) Moving further away from inane objective markers and give the terrain more presence than shot blocking.
Honestly I think it'd revive 40k very quickly instead of making it RAWR BIG UNIT BRAWLFEST
>>44880112
Huh, that's pretty good.
Reminds me of somethng though, which find really dumb.
40k games have gotten bigger, as in more points, more models, and bigger models, but the boards have gotten smaller. half the games are on 4'x4' tables, and even on 6'x4' with so many guns have have a 72"+ range theres no point in even moving anymore. Just line up your fuckhuge knghts and what not at the edge and shoot.
>>44880112
>Treat 40k more like its own period in history instead of a comicbook
That'd convince me to sell my 50,000 points of minis altogehter
>>44879957
Me too.
Real bummer that DoWII was such shit.
>>44879973
Take some shitty semi-OC as a sign of my gratitude.
>>44880237
>half the games are on 4'x4' tables
not if you play by the rules
>>44880112
While on the same topic, Stop making models in the GW scale. Realistic proportions and realistic accouterments and armaments.
Why realism? Not to make the game more grounded, but to make it THAT much more over the top. Imagine the sparse fighting of today, but the intensity of the firefights. Now imagine this in the scale of 40k. Once grounded in reality, things like Space Marines become amazing and awesome again.
>>44880282
Took me far too long to notice that they were larping.
Fucking shit, how did these faggots get an APC?I want one.
>>44880239
DoW2 did give us Kaptin Bluddflagg, so it wasn't a total loss.
>>44880237
I was playing ping pong and my only thought was how amazing a 2k point game would be on a table that size. Especially with activation rules. The fight would be VERY mobile and clinch, especially if one side was an assault army.
Back to the activation phase, most wargames use this method. The 1 turn burn method GW uses is hilariously bad
>>44876676
I actually really like the official prepainted idea. Like have some basic bitches for each army that come prepainted...troops...one HQ and maybe some other randos. Package them in "starter" boxes at a nice intro price (below $100 US). I'm not talking HeroClix level garbage...like a step up from that. Then in order to add nicer-sculpted and more powerful units to your army you have to buy traditional kits and learn the hobby.
>>44880282
They also need to fix the scale for tanks and vehicles.
I can never figure out how units like space marines are supposed to fit into their rhinos.
Or how like 30 guardsman can fit into an apc of approx. the size of in that pic.
>>44880389
The problem is that then a land raider would be about the size of a baneblade currently and the baneblade would be twice the size it is now.
HOWEVER I support this as well. Drop prices and people will buy entire new armies in the new sculpt.
>>44880321
IG don't fuck around
>>44871212
>how do you return balance
Return it from when?
>>44880389
>not knowing why vehicles have the specific dimensions that they do in relation to infantry
Are you new to 40k or just ignorant?
>>44880416
>Drop prices and people will buy entire new armies in the new sculpt.
Do you understand how retarded GW would have to be to make models BIGGER and charge LESS for them?
>>44880485
because GW has never been good at scale?
>>44880513
If people bought more it would not be retarded. You can make profit margins by quantity not just by per unit.
>>44880416
>>44880389
>>44880384
>>44880358
>>44880282
>>44880237
>>44880112
>>44879577
>>44879498
>>44878587
>>44878562
>ITT: retarded opinons
But, what did I expect?
>>44880485
enlighten me?
>>44880582
>ITT: Whining without giving BETTER solutions, or even bothering with constructive criticism
But what did I expect?
holy shit this thread seems to have attracted both the worst of the muh skirmish game crowd and a bunch of escapees from /hwg/. 40k shrinking in scale in size or model count are both tremendously shit ideas, one hinders conversion capability, which has always been a hallmark of the game, a reduction in model numbers would lead to even more emphasis on warjack-lite shit like the riptide.
what the game needs is to be financially accessible to high schoolers, maybe by having basic level kits that're cheaper but less modular and having more expensive, more complex ones for grognards.
it also needs to have editions not written around buffing/nerfing a single concept, 5th was vehicle buff for ex, 6/7th were cc-nerf, all the other technical problems flow from there, individual codices wouldn't be as bad/good if this was factored in.
finally every time someone whined about space marines they should be taken outside and crucified for missing the fucking point of playing 40k.
>>44880282
Even if you kept space marines the same size it would make them look so much more impressive next to a true scale human.
>>44880584
Your average 40k vehicle is about 4.5 inches long, 3 inches wide, and 2 inches tall (not counting the turret).
The height is the most obvious measurement as it's high enough to fully obscure any infantry behind it.
The length of 4.5 inches is such that an infantry unit can move from one side to the other in one turn without running
The width of 3 inches is less important than the other two measurements, but this allows an infantry unit to cross in front of or behind a vehicle with half of their movement.
This was Rick Priestly's intent for all vehicles when he introduced them to the game.
>>44880742
>what the game needs is to be financially accessible to high schoolers, maybe by having basic level kits that're cheaper but less modular and having more expensive, more complex ones for grognards.
I actually really like this. Keeps the poorfags happy and I keep my toys.
>>44880742
Except that 4k used to be a skirmish game, but had more variety, and conversion really was the hallmark of the hobby.
>>44880830
Except that 2nd ed was shit
>>44880742
>scale
Nobody is saying 40k should stop being 28mm.
And do you really think the people who want the game to be smaller again want idiotic units like the Riptide to even be in the game at 28mm scale? These things fit better in a smaller scale.
But go ahead, explain how getting rid of fliers/knights/riptides and taking it back to a few squads with support would be a bad thing.
>>44880772
No it wasn't.
You know how I can tell?
>without running
this wasn't a thing back then.
>>44880742
If prices all around for models were dropped, and you could buy pre-painted models, it would solve a lot of problems. I have the painting skills of Michael J Fox and the wallet emptier than an Ethiopians stomach. I could make due with playing around with unpainted models and not worry about painting them, but even then I'd still need to sell my arm and all of my unneeded organs to pay for an army with the bits I want
>>44880841
So you didn't like any of the editions then.
Great, so you don't like the game and never have. Why don't you leave discussions of how to make a game better t people who like (or liked) the game?
>>44880237
The problem is that, broadly speaking, the weapon ranges make sense. A big fuckoff artillery cannon should be able to clear the board and then some, etc. But 40k's single-d6 system has no granularity, so you can't apply range-based bonuses to hit (which would encourage mobility) without everything breaking.
Worse, given the sheer scale of units, 1d6 is the only sane system. You can't roll 2d6 to hit for each shot a guardsman fires or a turn would take all day. And nobody wants to have 90d20 on hand for when the supa-gattlas open up.
So the easiest solution is simply to not include the big stuff, but GW has been smelling money on Knight-scale kits for too long to stop now.
>>44880887
>bits
this is another issue. They need to either bring back the bits catalog store or f they don't plan on doing that ever, stop trying to sue the pants off anyone who tries to do it.
>>44880863
Actually to be fair I said that. What I really think you need is more elbow room, which you only get with a smaller army, smaller minis or a bigger table. Since people like big armies and since a table can only be so wide it's a compromise.
>>44880768
Pretty much
>>44880941
Yeah that's pretty much my point.
A few points heavy optional artillery pieces is fine for an army to have access to, bu making them commonplace, or even a core requirement of the game is dumb.
For example earthshaker tanks or w/e they were called were cool as fuck, but not really very practical. You would only have them just because they were fun.
>>44880941
Reminds me of that silly game with models on other tables in the store giving artillery support.
>>44880993
The problem is GW axed Epic which was the proper venue for such things. Kill Team and platoon/company level stuff is where 28mm 40k works best.
>>44880901
I liked 5th ed a lot up until the Necron release
>>44881149
Epic is actually making a comeback as per GW itself. They created a specialist game division in GW
>>44881158
Fair enough. As fond as I am of 3rd, probably mostly for nostalgia reasons, I think 5th was the best edition. It still had several issues, balance being on of them, but overall it was pretty clean and streamlined.
>>44881227
Honestly, if they re-released 5th and did updated codexes adding the models that have been released since, I'd buy into it 100%
Although, I do like the current psyker phase and warlord traits, they aren't necessary
40k problems start at three levels:
- company politics: this includes everything from current business model to CEO and board.
- lack of attention to fan base: poor ruleset compared ot other games, no input from community.
- expensive miniatures: this ties to the business model thingy from my first point, but it is a whole animal unto itself.
- company politics:
This is probably the hardest one to tackle, it would require that current board members drop their shares for one reason or another.
It might happen on the foreseable future if the current business proves flawed as it probably is(huge earnings to detriment of retaining customers)
Anyway, let's say that actually happens, suddenly you have a company board that is willing to "fix" GW thus fixing 40K. First step, fire the current CEO.
Second step, get someone who has business experience plus knows the ip.
Third step, change the business model: consider the company a slow return capital but a safe bet at best.
Get rid of direct sales oriented marketing strategies and start working through regular sales channels like local brick and mortar stores but not your own GW stores.
Rehaul the model making process.
Continues...
- lack of attention to fan base: every single marketing professional will tell you that alienating your customer from the product is a mistake. Make them involved again, copy warmahordes and mantic beta testing of rules before releasing new rulesets. Strive for balance, get rid of those infinite number of disparate space marines codexes, take a less is more approach, focus on main factions and aliens only.
- Expensive miniatures: cut the multipart bullshit. truth is that there is no need for multiparts, this does not mean that you need to get rid of extra bits (which is where most customization actually comes from), but stick to single or 2 parts piece miniatures. Miniature companies like Perry brothers and some Mantic plastic minis show that these is not only achievable it is actually preferable to rank and file troops. I would probably keep multipart minis for special units or monsters though. Oh and by the way, non multipart minis mean cheaper minis, which means people get the option (and OPTION is the important part here) to make larger armies.
I think this last point is possibly the one that will rustle more GW fanboy's jimmies, but other points I think make sense from a business point of view.
>>44871212
Three words
Economies of scale
Most of the people in this thread sound like they just want another game that isn't 40k.
Seriously, have you people tried other games.
All you skirmish fags would probably love Beyond the Gates of Antares. Stop being the cancer of 40k and go somewhere else.
Stop plagiarizing Starcraft, and make a setting that is actually original.
>>44881864
Skirmish isn't the cancer you faggot. Sirmish is how it was and is supposed to be.
It's you people who are cancer. You started showing up, and then grew into a huge portion of the customer base, and now you are taking it over. That's fucking cancer mate.
>>44881939
Skirmish is the cancer. The good editions have been the ones that moved away from that shit. Even 7th ed, as shit as it is, is better than 2nd and 3rd ed.
>>44881939
Seriously, have you tried other games?
>>44871212
is that brookhurst?
>>44881864
You realise that even Apocalypse is a skirmish game right?
And not wanting all the stupid huge models does not mean they want to play an entirely different game. 40k did and still does work best at the platoon level horde armies aside.
>>44882005
question, what if I want to play 40k with better rules? what if I WANT the 40k universe, but I am tierd of giant model spam and I want my platoon/company level engagements with infantry but with less shitty rules?
I never understood this mentality of GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE DON'T TRY TO IMPROVE.
Sell the models for maximum 250% over the manufacturing cost, that would still be at least 2x cheaper than they are now
Make the core rules a free download and simplify some stuff eg random charge distances
Give out more licences for 40k vidya
Stop making new kits that have op stats to make them sell.
More starter sets with special missions to introduce people to the game
Mandatory playtesting for every game designer at gw
>>44882166
>what if I WANT the 40k universe, but I am tierd of giant model spam and I want my platoon/company level engagements with infantry but with less shitty rules?
Then you're looking in the wrong place for that gameplay.
What if I want Pokemon, but am tired of different types and I want to battle them on the platoon/company level?
You'd say that I probably should either play pokemon for what it is, or find another game, huh?
>>44871212
Worked on a version of 40k with a group of dozen guys we called Warhammer 456 back when 6th ed first came out.
It took the best parts from each rule set to create a 'super' set. It came out well and we really enjoyed it, but our spirits were too crushed from all the shit that GW as dropping.
>Removed true line of sight (that rule was shit and only implemented to sell more terrain)
>>44880334
I want official tabletop rules for him
>>44882183
>Give out more licences for 40k vidya
This has to be a fucking joke
Have you seen how much shitty quality 40k vidya is coming out lately, or do I have to list all of them for you?
>>44882314
You are not very intelligent are you?
40k already was like what those people want not very long ago. Comparing it to wanting Pokemon wargames just makes you look desperate.
>>44882314
nope. Other types of pokemon games have been made that didn't have the direct battles as a focus.
Just because 40k has shitty rules right now doesn't mean it has to. Look at Apoc, look at kill team. Look at all the variants to the main game that exists right now.
To say that 40k MUST remain as it is, is rather foolhardy. I mean if 40k continues on the course you want than infantry models will simply vanish outright. I like playing mechanized infantry. I'm not a fan of knights or titans. So basically fuck off and play infinity is what you are saying?
You know GW isn't the only ones to blame for the dwindling player base.
>>44882427
If there were editions of 40k rules that were what those people want, why don't they just play an older edition? Plenty of grognards are doing it.
>>44882446
Infantry isn't going anywhere. to suggest that infantry is dissapearing in 40k is retarded. Infantry is as important in the metagame as it was two editions ago.
>>44882452
I really do get confused with this mentality. Its like the RULE.AS.WRITTEN types. Like how does this even work?
"I think the rules are broken"
GO PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME YOU IDIOT
"but The game would be more fun if.."
NO GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE YOU DON'T WANT TO PLAY 40k UNLESS YOU WANT TO PLAY A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSION OF 40K THAT HAS BAD RULES.
Adjust the prices. I dont want to pay tons of money for few boxes of unpainted plastic bodyparts that probably cost a few cents in production. This is the one thing that kept me away from this hobby.
And im sure not the only one thinking like that. I remember playing with friends when we were kids, because you actually could afford tabletop back then.
The setting has cool shit that attracts so many different players. A lot of the "normies" would play this game.
but how many of them are willing to pay 400 bucks (without paint, painting kits and rulebooks) for the game?
Oh and where the fuck are the adds? There havent been tabletop commercials since the 80s i think.
>>44882532
>"but The game would be more fun if.."
It's like fun is relative or something.
If you had your way, other people would be as disinterested in 40k as you are now.
>>44882571
Right now 40k infantry is literally 5 times as expensive or more as comparably sized multi-part kits from other manufacturers, its crazy.
>>44882532
I'm with you brother.
Why should old players who liked the old game as is be the ones expected to leave when a bunch of new people decide they like the new rules better?
>>44882653
Yeah, why should people be expected to play the systems they liked?
>>44877062
they sold like 300k by Nov 5th. The game came out late Oct.
>>44882642
Show me a company selling 13 plastic minis, with 3 weapon options each selling their game for 10 dollars or less.
If 40k infantry really is 5 times more expensive than anyone else, you should have no problem doing this. But you're not going to, because you're a liar
>>44882631
after a while of power creep and bigger models everyone will become disinterested.
So if you want your super heavies, then theres a game mode for you, its called Apoc. Why should other players suffer because you feel like there shouldn't be more game modes?
Its lunacy. Add more gamemodes instead of telling people to buy a different game.
>>44882642
This is what turned it into such a nishe game. And as long the grognards pay the overpriced shit GW wont change anything.
>rules
Bloodbowl was unbalanced as fuck and still fun.
And if you play with the same guys you could just homebrew something to make it more fair. And if more people could afford the armies you wouldnt be forced to fight against the same overpowered army again and again.
If more
>>44882738
if you want a skirmish game, then there's a game mode for you, it's called KillTeam
>>44876777
>People are gobbling up Vermintide like it's the second coming of Dark Souls.
No they arent. Its already less played than l4d2. Which is like 6 years old.
![[Heavy Breathing].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nWrWXK7.jpg "[Heavy Breathing].jpg")
First, reduce the prices of everything, especially minis. It should be $10 for 10 Guardsmen, preferably less.
Secondly, release a Ravening Hordes type book for 40k, filled with bare-bones, no fluff army lists.
Thirdly, make the rules serviceable. Not too complicated, but with some depth. Make an "Agents of Imperium" codex, which contains Deathwatch, Inquisition, Grey Knights, Assassins, Adeptus Arbites, Scions and SOB. Plus, make a "Rogue Trader" codex, which should pretty much be Dogs of War from Fantasy.
Fourthly, advertise, get 40k into the public eye.
Fifthly, make White Dwarf great again, Fill it to the brim with articles, reviews, rules, scenarios, and painting guides.
Do all this, and WH40k will be perfect.
This guy >>44876967 hit the nail on the head basically straight away. The rules are not designed to scale for whichever ridiculous massive plastic kit GW wants to push next.
I stopped playing around the end of 4th edition, just as the plastic Baneblade and Stompa came out. Even then at least they were Apocalyse-only.
A 40k army should look something like this to me. HQ, 2 Troops, and a few Fast Attack or Heavy Support, then some Termies or a Land Raider for "big" games. All of this shit around Flyers, Superheavies, Datafaxes, allies, detatchments, can fuck right off.
>ITT: people who don't even play telling people how the game should be
>ITT: lot's and lots of poorfags who want an excuse not to have nice things
>>44882729
>Show me a company selling 13 plastic minis, with 3 weapon options each
That's kind of an arbitrary metric.
And why would you need 39 weapons when you only have 13 bodies?
>>44882729
>Show me a company selling 13 plastic minis, with 3 weapon options each selling their game for 10 dollars or less.
What box are you even talking about? And why does the game price have anything to do with it?
As for my example, Gripping Beast will do 44 28mm scale plastic multi-part infantry with weapon options, lots of spare heads and extra stuff on the sprue for £22. Whereas a Space Marine tactical squad with 10 models is £25.
>>44882889
Won't pay ridiculous prices =/= poorfag
>>44882919
As another example, Perry will do a box of 38 WWII minis, with a heavy weapons team, command group, and different weapon and head options on the grunts for $29.
>>44882889
>they must be poor if they don't want to sink a load of money into a wargame that is past it's best!
>they must be poor if they don't want to play a game with skirmish mechanics from the 1980s but superheavy tanks!
What a mong you are.
>>44882849
Yup. All of this, yes.
>>44882889
Naw man. I play it and have a huge army. I still liked it better when i was picking and choosing 4-6 units from that army to play a game, instead of fielding nearly all of it.
>>44882805
I don't want to play kill team. I want to play a 2-3k point game on a large map. But I don't want the match to be ruled over with super heavies and knights and monstrous creatures. I want more flexibility to infantry on a more tactical level.
>>44882904
>What are magnets?
>>44882919
I was referencing the new Firewarrior kit, which actually has 2 heads for each of the guys too
Never heard of Gripping Beast. Looked them up and the quality looks considerably worse than GW's put out in years, although at a great price I will admit.
>>44882990
Have you tried talking to your opponents?
Most will agree not to bring a LoW or to play Battle Forged.
>>44882988
>I still liked it better when i was picking and choosing 4-6 units from that army to play a game, instead of fielding nearly all of it.
Play at lower points then, easy fix.
>>44883051
sometimes the crowd is very shitty, at least I managed to convince most of them to play activation rules. I still don't get my more weapon variation in the guard.
Ultimately more game modes is optimal
>>44881149
>The problem is GW axed Epic which was the proper venue for such thing
Indeed it was, then they tried to cram most of it downward into 40K, which ends up feeling less like a skirmish and more like two armies crammed into a ballroom.
I can't wait for Epic to re-release, but seeing as the Dropfleet Commander backer survey just went out I might buy into DZC in the meantime.
>>44882990
>3k game
Might be fun, but even that is bigger than 40k was ever meant to be.
1750 was the ideal army size for most editions.
>>44883110
THIS
People bitch about 40k, but play at way higher points than it should ever be played at
>>44882991
>magnetizing light infantry models
Anon pls
>>44883101
I still don't get why they dropped epic in the first place. It was popular, good, and fairly well selling. Probably the best selling of their specialist games.
Like I long for BFG again, but that didn't sell all that well so it makes sense that it was axed.
>>44871212
Unfuck the rules. Its really just inexcusable for the game to be in the condition its in. Its driving players away, thats not even debatable anymore. Its baffling that they've gone in the opposite direction and made it even harder to create an enjoyable pick up game.
I have friends that quit because they play CSM. Losing all the time sucks.
I have a friend that quit because pretty much no one wanted to play vs. his Eldar army. This is such an easy fix, and it will never happen. Ive stood by 40k for 20 years, but Im at the point where Im ready for it to pass on. I dont like what its become.
>>44882849
And further to this, as an old gamer I was quite surprised for GW to actually, finally, release Adeptus Mechanicus as an army. Really disappointing.
It was too late, the Design Studio has been gutted and has literally zero autonomy. I wonder what the team ten years ago would have made, imagine an AdMech book like the 3.5ed Chaos one, with millions of options.
>instead of one big codex, Skitarri, Cult Mechanicus and Knight books for dat £££ along with "DLC" style .pdfs
>some cool plastic kits, but nothing really mindblowing. Skitarii are nice, the Dunecrawler is too, but looking at the WIP thread and other places, barely anyone uses the chicken-walkers, electropriests etc., it's like they didn't even talk to Blanche
>>44883139
Well the issue is that GW is actively encouraging people to play 40k at a level it was never designed to handle.
And too many people want to play their giant robots they paid a fortune for.
>>44883165
>Not magnetizing your Firewarriors so you can play WYSIWYG
>>44883218
That's GW trying to sell minis.
It's the players' fault for not knowing that 40k is shit over and around 2000 points.
>>44882849
Yes, this exactly. Look at that fucking army. That is considered a 'huge' army but it barely fills a 3rd ed FOC. That is the absolute total maximum size a 40K Space Marine army should be and it probably even tops 2000 points, which was the 'normal' full size army. Anything bigger should be in Epic.
>>44883110
It has to be done right, thats the thing. At like 1750 points its really hard to put a good mix on the table. And higher point games run smoother on activation phase. Honestly faster as well
>>44883190
I quite when all the fun armies stopped being fun. So the introduction of 6th.
That was the point when chaos and orks became truly unplayable, space marine special chapters stopped being viable, and Eldar players went full power gamers.
Can't blame the eldar players though, they had it rough for a long time.
>>44871212
>>how would models be manufactured
Their product quality is good. I would keep this the same.
>>what would be the price point
About %30 lower then current retail. %40 or %50 in some cases.
>>how would you avoid power creep
By doing REAL playtesting and not just a fun game where the new army wins to show off in white dwarf.
>>how do you return balance
See above.
>>what needs to be cut
Unbound, True Line of Sight, no more lords of war in standard games, no more formations... for starters. im sure there is more.
>>what needs to be added
Flavor.
>Hard-mode:
>>don't lose any old fans
By doing away with the broken LOS system that have proven itself a failure and getting away from "every game looks like APOC now" im sure most people will be happy.
The little kiddies that want to play with the 15 riptides mommy bought them can do so in an apoc game.
>>bring in new players
A sane price point will get people LOOKING at the game. solid rules and good minis at a good price get people BUYING the game.
>>44883189
Looking at the blobby models it was probably time to retool the molds, a C-level saw the cost and just said no.
>you will never own a tiny Dark Eldar army
>>44883218
This.
I know the game is meant to be played at lower levels, but GW is pushing it in a way that makes it seem like you need 3k+ armies to even play.
>>44883281
Not really, you just have to choose what type of army you are going to field for that game, and go with it. I will grant that activation would make larger games more viable though.
>>44883189
And yeah, I loved BFG with a passion. Favourite tabletop game ever, hands down. At least with that I can get a very reasonable replacement in Firestorm Armada or possibly Dropfleet Commander whereas Epic doesn't really have anything that comes close.
>>44883189
GW made a new specilist gams devision.
Epic, BFG and blood bowl are all getting a reboot. and we will be seeing new LOTR / Hobbit minis under the new branch as well.
There has been leaked pics of some of the blood bowl figs floating around.
Currently this game tries to do so many things at once with a foundation that wasn't intended to do any of it. It's a skirmish massed battle micro-feeling 28mm game where the focus is shooting and melee. I believe the only way to save 40K is to rewrite the rules from scratch. Here is how I would approach the problem:
>as many models as possible need to be compatible with these new rules
>write up a summary of how each army should play and feel
>special rules should be used sparingly, as either army-wide abilities or in emergencies for the crazier models
>How many models are in a normal army? Are bigass models like Baneblades going to be the core of a force--a single large model that the army is built around--or something that is strictly limited to large games? It would be hard to do neither and simply offer super-heavies as just another option like mere Sentinels or Ogryns. This is important as the farther players get from the ideal size, the less fun they are likely to have.
I mainly play 30K, which is why I don't insist that the game shrink as much as possible. It is possible to make a 28mm game work, believe it or not, at a shockingly large scale (players with small tables need not apply.)
tl;dr 40K is the version of Gamebryo used by Bethesda for 15 years in tabletop form, it is more patch than engine and needs a total reboot or else some day it will just collapse.
>>44883391
Wait, really?
I knew about epic coming back, but BFG and bloodbowl too?
That's pretty neat. Will I be able to use my old BFG fleet?
I ask knowing GW will say no to grab more money.
>>44883391
Don't forget Aeronautica Imperialis AKA X-Wing: 40k
>>44883427
Yeah. Epic and BB are higher on the list. Its gonna be a while before we see BFG.
Hell i dont think blood bowl is gonna see anything untill late this year.
But from what i have heard they want to reboot all of their old shit. Necromunda, Gorkamorka, mordhime ect ect.
But its going to be years. i cant see them just casting the old minis up. they are gonna make new ones which takes time. and they are gonna focus on one or 2 things at once.
I think they figured out people want skirmish scale games sometimes.
>>44883391
>>44883427
We don't really know anything yet. It's all under the Forge World umbrella, 3 teams all reporting to Tony Cotteril. 1 for the existing FW, 1 for Specialist Games, 1 for LotR/Hobbit.
They have specified that they will be re-making "Adeptus Titanicus", not Epic particularly. So it will be more focused on Titan combat. Which sounds like it might piss of the people who still play it, more used to formations of troops and tanks.
All I hope is they don't fracture the existing healthy communities that these games have.
>>44883521
Hopefully its an experiment to see if a studio with (relative) creative autonomy can be a commercial success, and if it is they might apply some of that goodness to the development of 40k and fantasy
>>44883537
Yeah them remaking blood bowl has me scared.
The current rules set if great. There is not one team that dominates and i have seen a skilled player with a halfling team whoop on a mid skill player.
>>44883521
Aeronautica Imperialis is rumored to be among the first releases, as an attempt to steal X-Wing's thunder as a dog-fighting sim.
>>44883599
People still play bloodbowl?
I loved it years ago, but I haven't seen nor heard hide nor tail of it in years.
>>44883657
It's probably the most popular of all the Specialist Games still, play is very organised too by the NAF, this year's World Cup in Italy was massive.
Not to mention the (pretty poor but popular) video games, and FUMBBLwhich has a /tg/ league.
>>44880321
there's a british website that sells them
they cost about as much as a new car before the import fees
>>44883657
There are several toruneys around the world through the year.
And several leagues around the world in larger cities.
I was in a league of about 50 people. But our web site got attacked and taken down and we all lost our team sheets. with broken hearts we just kinda stoped playing but im trying to get the juices flowing on it again. sadly i dont know the first thing about building a web page.
>>44883902
>in larger cities.
That explains it.
>>44883921
I know the UK is a special example, being the home of miniature wargaming, but it's not just limited to cities here. The Swedes are oddly mad for it too, they seem to have a league in every village.
>>44883657
theres a /tg/ general dude.
>>44876676
Except you're not saving the hobby you're murdering it. Literally killed every fucking thing about it from tabletop games to the modelling and painting and replaced it with boring mainstream video games and shitty prepainted board games.
ITT a bunch of faggots who don't even play 40k
>>44876773
This
>>44884458
Hey look, its the exact same argument the GW fanboys used to defend Age of Sigmar!
Because god forbid you still be interested in a game and its setting but have the sense to vote with your wallet when they start going full retard.
>>44871212
>models 10-20% cheaper
>codexes 30-40% cheaper and cut the useless parts out
>nerf Tau
>more advertisement
>more starter packs like the start collecting boxes they brought out lately
>a bundle sale twice a year with 10-20% extra value before summer holidays and before christmas
>more "bring your friend and get little shit for free that won't hurt GW"
>more advertisement
>cut crapcast and metal sales
>rework old armies that people liked
>oh, did I say more advertisement? I'd have never come across GW and Warhammer if it wasn't for a friend 15 years ago who told me about it. 15-20k $ per year in advertisement would bring the sales up exponentially.
>enforce people to take a shower before they are allowed to enter the store. Seriously I haven't been in a GW since years, but lately startet collecting again with a few buddies and we are all disgusted by the smell that we encountered. OK, given the fact, that it was explicitly one guest that smelled bad and whilst he wasn't there while we were there again it didn't smell it seems to have gotten a bit better than 10 years ago, but WTF.
>Point above would also bring more tits to GW stores which would help to attract more nerds cause they hope to be able to hit on "gamergurls" and shit and: More nerds = more money.
Fuck if it was a little cheaper I'd even get fully back into the hobby and not only plan for a
little 750p army to play 1 hour skirmishes. Since I love the rulechanges that happened over the years.
You know, reading this thread always kinds of gets me because people bitch about the price. I honestly don't get it. Yeah, 40 bucks is shitty for just one squad, but it's not like you're expected to buy -everything- at once. It's incremental. I only started about a year ago, and have 2K points worth of SM/IG. After the models, paints, andOkay the brushes are pretty overpriced, I was looking at around 500 bucks along with a bunch of bits I bought from people. 500 USD over a year is pretty damn low for just a hobby, compare that to buying golf clubs or a quality mountain bike.
>>44886826
THIS
Why don't poorfags get it? Are you so impatient that you need to buy everything at once just to field an army of gray plastic?
>>44886826
>>44887062
When I was still actively buying (around 12-13 years ago, stopped completely a few years after that) a box of IG was 20€ for 20 guys (same for orks and other horde armies) while SM and the like were 20€ for 10 guys. Now it's apparently around the same cost (25€, but so adjusted to inflation it's about the same price) but you get half the minis. If we go back even further to the 90s when I started it was even less. Combine these with the fact that many other companies are making minis of the same quality that cost less and it's no wonder that people are feeling salty.
It's probably a simple request but I'd just like a company that saw it as a game and not a model company.
>>44887332
Would be enough if they wouldn't be deluded enough to ignore that the game is their strongest marketing tool and outsource it somebody who gives a fuck about writing decent rules.
>>44871212
Does 40k really need fixing though?
Outside of a few issues, namely how bad the CSM, ork and 'nid codexs are, the state of the SoB, who are stuff in a weird position between a support codex and a full fleged one, and a few other minor issues, 40k isn't really that bad, and consideing it's not supposed to be a competive wargame but one thats played for fun and is more geared towards narrative campaigns and not tournaments, it fullfils it's role fine.
I guess GW could stop handing out vidya contracts to anyone who offers, and focus on getting more quality stuff like DoW 3 and space marine 2, and balance the game, which is possible as shown by what forgeworld has done with 30k, and allowing FLGS to bring back online shopping carts, getting some partnerships with some big name retailers to make the hobby more accessible and enlarge the playerbase (not sure which store would be good though.), go back to the way they used to run official GW stores, bringing back some of the old artists, writers and designers to bring back the magic and soul to the hobby, and do some more market research, which could be as simple as semi-regular online surveys on the GW and forgeworld webstores.
Oh, and they should also kill of AoS and bring back fantasy, but in such a way that it can be well designed, loved by the fanbase and make money. All those and getting Tom Kirby off of the same planet as GW headquarters. That last one is probably the most important part, as even though he isn't CEO anymore, his being in the same plane of existence gives him too much input into how GW is run.
>>44886826
>>44887062
I think a large part of it is people just don't shop smart.
Only got into the table top early last hear, and I've already got 2k of space marines 1k of necrons and am currently buiding up my 30k ultramarines armycurrently painting girlyman as I type this. Not to get off topic, but am I the only one who finds primarchs harded to paint? You'd think that bigger model would mean the details are easier to get down, but all it does is make the mistakes more noticable.
It wouldn't suprise me if the eople who complain don't even buy from a FLGS that sells 40k models at least 20% off GW retail pricing.
>>44876777
OW LAWD
TRIPZZZZ
talking about pricing, it pisses people off because the price goes up -much- quicker than inflation and has gone up to such a degree as to make it ludicrous to get the ground zero 10-15 year olds you -need- for the hobby to survive.
Before you all start about kids, realise that kids, specifically boys, that age are going to be the ones who're coming into the hobby who need to be encouraged to stay in it.
Grown-ups can come and go, kids need reinforcing to stay interested, which won't happen if they can't get a new kit every few months and they can't get a new kit if it's going to cost a kidney each time.
This is obviously less of a problem in the northern hemisphere but they're slowly murdering the hobby in AUS/NZ because the combination of decreased urban populations and ball-rupturingly expensive models just pushes people out of it.
As an example, when I was a student a box of tactical marines cost 55$ NZD, the same box would now cost me $75 NZD, a price increase of nearly a third in eleven years, way beyond inflation, but also well past the mark of being something I could have afforded to throw my student shekels at regularly.
I stopped having any sympathy for their pricing structure when the manager of my local attempted to convince me that $120 NZD, i.e, the amount I was paying each week in rent, was a reasonable amount to pay for a box of THREE(!) blood knights.
They've lost their goddamned minds and need to seriously reassess their prices versus the long term viability of pricing everyone under 35 out of the hobby.
>>44871212
Try fixing the player base.
Oh I have full understanding for GW as for ditching the horrid neckbeard nagging audience called warhammer players, to start fresh. I have no illusions about it, totally was all about getting rid of that fan-base.
And 40k ain't much better. Bloated neckbeards doing Everything wrong. No personal responsibility (and I mean NO personal responsibility!), Everything from personal budget to tactics and experience.
> Uhaah, it cost to much to get the latest and greatest, now GW is FORCING me to not pay rent this month!
>Tactics and experience has Another Word for it, its called "luck" #/tg/hasonlymathhammer
You know what needs to be done? You all need to grow up, grow a pair, and realize the reality of the situation.
That GW is a Company that cares to make Money, thats it. Its even in their policy, "ether you are a customer, or you're not" Its that simple.
Start to Think out side the box, or get a good local gang that Thinks just about the same when you play games. You ether man up, and build the most extreme lists of the combinations available to your disposal, or you say "ok, I like it fluffy", and find a Group that does the same. The game is only as cheesy as you as a Group permits it to be!
Oh, and for the love of the Empereor, its a hobby, your not supposed to get 4k of whatever in one go, every time GW releases a new dex, what are you, 12? Like a kid in the candy shop for Crying out loud.
Hell, I know Ill get shit for this post, as I have generally described and publicly humiliated more than half of /tg/´s population, but I don't give a shit. Its the damn truth, so just face it!
Always wanted to do Warhammer as a kid, but never had the money to spend $6.99-14.99 ($9.96-21.96 2015 equiv.) on one or two figures per blister. Save for a couple I got on clearance when WotC closed its game stores.
But what does everyone mean the price is high?
>>44871558
>That is a nice looking shop.
Would be a shame if anything were to happen to it.
>>44890210
forgot pic
>>44890072
When I started regular Warhammer about 20+ years back, I got around $60 in todays Money. It got me a box of Soldiers for about a third and the rest to spend on other stuff. Yep, a third of my disposable income was blown away on one box.
But you know what? It didn't matter, that box lasted me the month out to be frank. To scrape mouldlines, to assemble, to the best of my ability paint, and so on. It took time, hard work and effort to build something.
But I feel today, you want it like Everything else "now!". You don't want to spend half a year to get a sizable army, you don't want to take the time to paint, hell, you don't even want to play with the models you started with, because as soon GW releases a new dex or nerf the current one you drop out!
We had it great when I was a kid, because your expectations where never that high. You watched in the latest WD and when "oohh!" on all things cool. When you played a game, every Dice roll was pure magic, and some of my best Child hood memories are still about Epic games we had!
And we enjoyed every minute of it, painting along with Heroes of Might and Magic 2 running in the background, taking our turns and pausing the painting. Hell, even playing games with just a few small regiments and an artillery piece was fun back then.
Anyone else remember "a tale of four gamers"? Oh that shit was a blast to hook on to (who else here has a Mortar named "Matilda"?)!
>>44890618
Yeah, I kinda agree with the sentiment.
The mindset of most people is that they want everything, right now. Which means they want to buy everything at once and be a 'eavy metal painter as soon as they pick up a brush.
It doesn't work that way IRL, which is why I think all of GW's IPs seem to be more successful as settings for computer games.
>>44881905
U wot m8
>>44871212
>how do you avoid power creep
>how do you return balance
>what needs to be cut
>what needs to be added
The primary focus for product marketing should be releasing terrain and battle boards that reflect the iconic locations within the setting instead of more and more army lists and models. This way you can refine the core mechanics of the game to be more balanced while also cutting the power creep. In addition you build upon what is unarguably the core of what makes 40K enjoyable, the deep lore and sense of commanding an army.
Imagine an Armageddon supplement released not only with stories of the campaign, but instructions and quality terrain for fully playing out those battles yourself. The role of the game designers moves away from making new units to creating interesting scenarios.
>>44871212
Hire / expand a serious balance and play testing team and possibly open up beta editions of rules / codices to the internet for play testing and feedback on rules interaction problems and unsure wording.
Make rules free to DL which helps cut costs and allows you more freedom to make balance changes.
Bring back support for events and tournaments, from FLGS packages, summer of chaos online campaigns, bring sponsored store to store campaigns back, and support for official and fun run events of larger scale like cons and major tournaments.
Stop walking the line between whole sale supplier and chain store. Roll back your prices some to suppliers and allow cross country online sales and better FLGS support as well.
>hobbies are expensive so how DARE you complain when GW charges stupid prices
Anybody who holds any sentiment even remotely close to this is part of the problem and needs to sort themselves out. Calling people with sense poorfags just makes you look like a blind fanboy desperately defending GW no matter what.
>>44888453
>It wouldn't suprise me if the eople who complain don't even buy from a FLGS that sells 40k models at least 20% off GW retail pricing.
If you live in the UK there is no reason to not buy most of your stuff for 25% off. There's this place called Dark Sphere in London that stocks basically every GW product with a flat 25% discount and because of the Royal Mail the shipping is the same to anywhere in the country. I've saved so much damn money over the years because of that place.
>>44882849
I never get tired of seeing this and other pictures from the grander era of Warhammer/40k.
Grander, I say, there is nothing grand about desperately large models/armies.
>>44889932
underrated post
>>44882365
>a few shitty 40k games came out!
>better keep the license from everyone and not let anyone learn or let competent devs access it!
>>44894101
It would be nice if a big/good dev other than Relic actually showed any interest in making mainline 40k games.
>>44876937
So its dead already, right
To save this game we need a few things. As most people have said, make it cheaper. Let's look at MTG here for a comparison, the casual entry bar is much lower. They sell starter decks that come with everything you need wrapped up in a nice little package. Do the same with armies. Make it so you can spend ~150 get a decent little chunk of an army that's fully painted and put together with rules and everything you need to play. Have other models that need to built and painted for the people that get deeper into the hobby though.
UNFUCK THE RULES. People are right I shouldn't need two books that are about $40-50 just to play. Make them free or condense. Also make the rules better to start up with.
Advertise. Seriously. Most people have no fucking clue what this game is. Get a good company to make some decent video games for it, make a decent movie, do anything for it. I have never once seen an advertisement of any kind for this game.
Figure out a way to avoid the stigma of grogtards playing this game. Put it in the eye of the mainstream media, it's cool to be a nerd now.
