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>Core rulebooks, adventure modules, Unearthed Arcana
https://mega.nz#F!UVkTnT5b!FJ34UZ98BMY2mEtexenS7g
>Pastebin with homebrew list, resources and so on:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck
Have you feature extraterrestrials in your game yet, /5eg/?
>>44702520
>Have you feature extraterrestrials in your game yet, /5eg/?
Only your mom, OP.
>>44702520
That depends on whether "extraterrestrials" includes creatures from other planes. I have a few PC races that originated on the elemental planes and ended up migrating to escape the genies.
>>44702520
Current BBEG is an extra-dimensional sun eating creature that splintered when landing on the planet.
It gathers energy by making suns go Supernova, to get the most energy put of them. Debating how to make it appear properly in full.
>>44702728
>Having them explode, dispersing their energy across an ever greater area
Wouldn't suns give greater energy if you just ate them whole?
Why is there no jedi monk tradition?
>>44702832
There's the sword swingy wizard class. Sounds pretty jedi to me. Wield a longsword. Fluff extra stuff as punching and kicking etc.
I play a polearm battlemaster fighter, I fluff the trip attack as a swift knee or boot where applicable, or at times a headbutt.
>>44702832
Same reason we don't have lightsa...
> remembers sunblades
Hmmm...
>>44702832
>Why is there no jedi monk tradition?
Because it is Dungeons and Dragons, not the fucking Star Wars RPG. Are you serious?
>>44702832
>What is a blade singer
>>44702832
Wait, what isn't jedi about monks already?
You can already use most melee weapons as monk weapons. Having a great AC while unarmoured, parrying and even stopping ranged attacks, running kenyan speed over water, expending energy points to do superhuman stuff?
>>44703036
>Wait, what isn't jedi about monks already?
No.
1) No increased speed
2) No immunity to disease
3) Monks don't have the force
4) Monks cannot do telekinesis (ie force push)
5) Monks do not have anything like Jedi Mind tricks
I understand the thematic similarity but to make that comparison is, no offense, rather badly thought out to put it mildly.
>>44703094
1) Jedi don't exist
2) Monks do
Monks > Jedi
>>44703036
>>44703302
>>44702832
Jedis are just a special kind of monk with psychic powers.
It would be really easily to homebrew that shit if you wanted. Force push here, force choke there, lightning if you're so inclined.
>>44702600
fucken' goteem
I can twin Haste and have myself as a target right? I'm assuming it's only if the target specifically has a range of self that I can't?
>>44703636
Sounds correct. Any spell that targets one person and isn't just self can be twinned.
>>44703636
Correct. Haste targets only one creature and does not have a range of self so it's twinnable. Polymorph is another great twinnable spell.
Mystic update fucking when?
>>44702832
I made one up to level 11 if you want it. YMMV, but I essentially gave monk the 1/2 caster abilities of the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight.
Want to Jedi Mind Trick someone? Choose charm spells.
Want to shoot lightning? Pick fucking lightning bolt.
Fluff as needed.
>>44703762
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/642017095115345920
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/624308219754647553
Sometime in your lifetime, maybe.
>>44703762
Didn't you hear? It's going to be included in the PHB2 alongside the MM2, Ravenloft setting books, Eberron books, and the Martial's Handbook all releasing this March!never
>Want to play a summoner
>Summoning is a bunch of poo-poo and each caster class basically has a single decent summoning spell each
Wah.
>>44703920
I just want a proper artificer..I like that it's a wizard tradition now, but it's honestly really disappointing that your features extend to:
> I can make a very limited range of potions
> I can eat up my arcane recovery allotment and turn it into a few scrolls..instead of just recovering my spell slots
> I can temporarily give a piece of armor or a weapon +1 or eventually +2
It's like it has the trappings of being a magical inventor without actually doing anything inventive with it.
>>44704014
You could be a Bard and use Magical Secrets to get the summoning spells from the other classes. You can then buff them up a bit with Bardic Inspiration too. Then beg your DM to swap out a Bard feature with Durable Summons or something.
>>44704014
Yeah. Between what summoners could do in 3.5 and PF, they decided to make summoning very weak in this edition. Similar to what they did with Necromancy in this edition but summoners got it worse.
I'm DM'ing Mines of Phandelver, and I'm having some issues keeping track of all the NPCs and the vital information that they all need to give the PCs. How can I better keep track the NPCs' mannerisms, quest info, AND accurately role-play each of their characters? This question may seem a little all over the place, but it's just the most difficult part of DM'ing for me and I have yet to best it. I've DM'ed this part of the module before, and it is really hard not to consume 75% of the session just talking with NPCs.
>>44704055
>Combine scrolls and potions to make double magic scrolls
>combine double scrolls together to make golem
>equip golem with +2 greatswords for fingers.
>>44704097
Have your characters write some of the info down. Also index cards for each important or group of NPCs helps me. Nothing complicated, just their name, appearance, importance, and like 4 character traits to help me remember their personality.
>>44704097
Just make an index card for each NPC, with the front divided down the middle. One half has basic info (name, race, affiliations, etc.), the other is split into two parts. Top has basic description, bottom has mannerisms. Story notes on the back.
Or if you do prep digitally, make a similarly-divided table.
>>44704097
Make a note card of each NPC. Put important notes, conversation pieces, quests and mannerisms on the card.
PCs meet the NPC, pull out the card.
Eventually you won't need the cards at all, but they should help get you used to changing character all the time and remembering who does what.
>>44704097
Keep notes somewhere for each character. Write down key pieces of information, a little detail on their character, and enough about them to be able to ad-lib effectively.
For significant characters in my campaigns, I write up something similar to a character sheet. For Phandelver, you can probably get away with just a cheatsheet or flashcards of each significant NPC
>>44704132
>>44704146
>>44704148
>>44704150
Notecardmind
>>44704097
I'm partial to making info cards for everything, you might consider giving them a try. Include their name, a brief blurb about their appearance, how they act in general, and whatever info they have attached to them
>>44704124
>Can't craft a golem without GM permission
Crafting is my least favorite part about this edition, hands down.
>>44703835
https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/684788021334376449
>>44704075
Actually not a bad idea.
I feel like Durable Summons should have been stronger though, for anything you'll summon at level 14 it's basically at most a 20% HP bonus and it's so low in utility compared to the other wizard level 14 features.
Like, make it give an AC bonus too or something. Focused Conjuration is almost infinitely better than Durable Summons.
Not to mention that Summoning will have mostly stopped being relevant at 14 anyway.
>>44704132
>>44704146
>>44704148
>>44704150
>>44704160
Cards are love
>>44704164
Really? They left it ambiguous to give DMs major leeway with it. It can be as creative or boring as you want it to be.
That being said, the official crafting rules for Expeditions or AL are complete garbage.
>>44704055
FUCKING EBERRON CAMPAIGN SETTING WHEN!?
>>44704208
One of the two planned adventures that Perkins talked about a few months ago involved and airship and barbarians, specifically using the word "pulpy."
>>44704132
>>44704146
>>44704148
>>44704150
>>44704164
Thanks mates, I'll give this a try. This seems like the only downside to the module so far for me. They seemed to pack all the NPC quest givers in this one area, and my players just LOVE to talk to every last soul in town and get all their quest objectives before moving on.
Any tips for tMoP in general? my party is really enjoying it and I feel we'll actually finish it this time now that we have a regular date and players fully dedicated to playing frequently.
>>44704185
I do think it's better in some ways than say PF's crafting rules, but it really bugs me that there's no way for you to craft faster without DM say so. You make 5gp progress per day of work per person working on the item. All workers have to be proficient with the appropriate tools. At least in PF you could invest in a crafting skill to speed things up.
Magic items are the same way, since this edition is intended to be low magic compared to older editions.
>>44704208
When hell freezes over, thaws, and freezes again
>>44704243
>and my players just LOVE to talk to every last soul in town and get all their quest objectives before moving on.
Wish my group did this. So many NPCs and quest lines get totally ignored.
>>44704226
>Adventure
God damn it no.
I want fully featured variant rules for a high magic setting so my game doesn't fucking break in half when I hand out a lot of magic items.
>>44704281
this desu
just handing out warm boots of fuck snow settings really gives a guy an advantage in the ice
>>44704243
>They seemed to pack all the NPC quest givers in this one area, and my players just LOVE to talk to every last soul in town and get all their quest objectives before moving on.
I'm with >>44704269 here, I'm downright jelly
>>44702520
My Warlock had a couple of Ayy kids a little while back.
>>44704281
This.
I want to be able to pass out wondrous trinkets like candy on halloween without worrying about overall balance..3.X was pretty good about that at least. The magic was expected and encouraged.
>>44704243
I've ran it once already. I altered it somewhat fluff wise to fit a campaign idea I had, but I otherwise ran it as is.
Don't be afraid to challenge your players. The death save mechanic of 5e is very forgiving.
Remember, larger numbers of enemies is generally harder than just one big and strong enemy.
Cover!!! Remind your players that it is a thing; ideally by using it yourself!
When you run theGreen Dragon, run him like this https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2e682e/what_makes_the_green_dragon_work_in_lost_mines_of/forgive my link for leading to reddit. the content is worth a read
>>44704281
Huh.
Whereas I actually like that 5E makes magic items rare so that you don't have to weigh martials down with enough artifacts and relics to give an anthropologist a three-foot boner.
>>44704337
Holy shit thanks for this link. The last time my previous group got to Thundertree, they fucking rekt the dragon turn 2. They raped it so hard I had to give it hitpoints to at least try to get off a breath weapon. I'll definitely try this next time they get to Thundertree.
>>44704281
Just... hand them out? Giving players a ton of magic items in 5e just makes them more versatile, and Eberron's magic item shit is mostly focused on technology and daily life shit anyway. Following the attunement rules and rarity guidelines keeps their power in check just fine, just don't give a level 4 fighter a +3 greatsword and don't give a level 5 wizard a staff of power. Maybe make uncommon magic items readily available through House Cannith craftsmen if they have the coin.
>>44704358
My favorite settings are Planescape and Eberron.
This whole low magic vibe really doesn't fit them at all.
>>44704358
Different anon;
I like that you don't -have- to weigh down the martials with magic items. The issue comes when I want to give out magic items and I have to worry about whether or not they'll be too overpowered because a +3 is considered legendary status.
>>44704337
The thought of getting to purr this dialogue in my best Jeremy Irons baritone gives me a mischievousness boner. Thank you very much.
>>44704337
>>44704451
PS: I get the feeling, though, that my Ranger (with chosen enemy dragon) and RAAGH VENGEANCE Paladin aren't going to fall for this stuff easily. But I'll do my best to play up the intrigue angle and maybe it'll work.
>>44704429
>Using pre-written settings
Wait, people actually do this? I thought they just mined them for ideas.
>>44704434
The +X magic items are the boring ones, though. Just hand out wondrous items like candy and you'll be fine, since they can only be attuned to so many anyway.
>>44704465
Play up on making a deal with the party. My group was cautious and suspicious, but in the end the dragon pressured them into a parlay by speaking reasonably.
The whole "I only take to a fight I can win overwhelmingly" really can boost the player's confidence too. Because the dragon "seemed" to be just as afraid of the group as they were of him, they wrongly let their guard down.
>>44704014
It's hard to balance a spell that basically creates an entire warrior with the abilities actual warrior classes get.
How do you deal with people that metagame? Anything you do as a player to make things right?
>>44704465
Samefagging here.
>>44704533
Forgot to mention to really play up the dialog the most with your more receptive players.
The Ranger with favored enemy dragon might not be all that willing, but the rogue who has eyes for treasure and fame might be able to quell the party's aggression long enough for Venomfang to get into position.
>>44704571
Depends on how they metagame, since there are several ways with different levels of annoyance. Gotta be more specific.
>>44704571
If I know one of my players is using out of character knowledge, I try to change that knowledge.
He's read the module? Time to change some things around so he'll be wrong. If he keeps doing it though I'd probably tell him he isn't welcome though. Fortunately it's only happened once, and the other players asked him to stop pretty much immediately.
>>44704592
Currently I have players in my party who saw that I had to role a deception check for saying I was saying I'm not, the person I deceived failed the check and believed me. They never did the check but know that I'm lying. So they continue to say so.
>>44704652
Next time someone tells them the truth about something, like a fork in a road, one ends in ambush, one is safe, roll a d20. If they believe he is lying despite Insight pinging truth, then they run into the ambush.
This is how you teach them.
>>44704652
I avoid that by never having NPCs make Charisma checks, for starters. Players have to take NPCs and how I play them at face value. If they say they want to get a read on someone, I have them make an Insight check, usually against the NPC's passive Deception if they're actually lying. Through this I've avoided metagaming of that type altogether.
Although I'm not sure if you by "your party" you mean you're the DM or a fellow player. If you're a player, you shouldn't be rolling Charisma checks against your companions anyway.
>>44704451
When I think Jeremy Irons and D&D, I don't think subtlety.
So this is the anon that's been posting about running the aquatic campaign a few threads ago. I need some input on something. Should I keep humans as they are, and have magically maintained bubble cities, or should I just give them amphibiousness and swim speed? They would be the only playable race that couldn't breathe underwater by default if that were the case.
Would you allow players to use shape/control water on other liquids?such as lava
>>44704755
You've got a point. I'll have to resist being cheesy until the dragon springs the trap.
...That's going to be really hard.
>>44704778
If it's a liquid that contains water, sure.
>>44704652
Pre-rolls. Have a list with numbers from a pre-rolled d20.
Keep the next number in mind and they won't spot you "rolling".
>>44704778
Clearly, for lava they'd need Mold Earth, or whichever the stone affecting cantrip is.
>>44704815
Blood contains water.
>>44704769
Bubble cities. Human are cool because they make shit work. Don't turn them into Kevin Costners for convenience sake.
>>44704881
Sure, they can control blood that's spilled with it. But if it's inside someone's body there's no line of effect, so no bloodbending allowed.
>>44704881
Now I want to run a scene with some kind of vampire caster who has pools of blood to control.
Or shit, go all Vileblood form Bloodborne.
>>44704895
>Destroy Water:
You destroy up to 10 gallons of water in an open container within range. Alternatively, you destroy fog in a 30-foot cube within range.
>they get cut and you destroy all their blood
>>44704926
People aren't really "containers," are they?
>>44704887
How can I express this mechanically? Humans will remain as default, but all the other playable races will be amphibious. Isn't that a bit of a drag?
>>44704963
Abundantly available scuba gear?
>>44704951
We're hardly considered solid.
>>44704681
>>44704753
I'm not the GM it's not my decision, it was also an important thing. My bard was trying to fool someone so they would remove the curse from me without having to give up my eyes.
>>44704970
It's fantasy, no scuba gear exists.
I mean i'm adding amphibousness and some kind of swim speed to most of the other races, without really taking anything away. Isn't that a problem for balance? I mean nobody will want to play a human if the majority of the world is in water.
>>44704979
We're certainly not "open"
>>44705022
You can ok magically maintained bubble cities but not some kind of magitech scuba bullshit?
>>44704963
Give them a 30 foot swim speed and let them hold their breath for 15 minutes at a time like lizardfolk. Leave everything else the same.
>>44705022
Just make a cantrip called Bubble Breath or something. If someone wants to play a human that isn't a spellcaster well, fuck 'em.
>>44705022
It's a massive problem, yeah. Just give humans amulets that give them waterbreathing and a swim speed or something.
Why are the humans even there? Humans are shit under water, they'd live on islands.
>>44705022
>It's fantasy
Yes. Exactly.
Just invent a relatively common plant that can be brewed into some kind of potion or ointment which provides underwater breathing.
Have a Wizard guild that provides affordable magic scuba shit.
Jesus Christ, use your imagination.
>>44705046
Its not magictech that's maintaining the bubble cities, bu the burgeoning power of corrupt sorcer-monarchs who demand fealty or banish you from the city. Air is precious, and you have no right to it.
>>44705059
There are no more islands. 99% of the world is now underwater after the world drowned. There is no more surface civilization.
>>44705070
>plants that produce Sonic the Hedgehog-style bubbles that let humans travel great distances across the ocean floor
>>44705022
Human can magic right? Have the market of the bubble cities flooded with potions of waterbreathing for the plebs, and pendants or chargable wands for the rich.
This lets the rich travel from bubble city to bubble city, and keeps the poor stuck in one area (likely never able to leave the city).
>>44705098
In which case humans would prefer living on Waterworld-style rafts.
>>44705077
Then you've answered your own question. Humans cannot survive under water. Humans have no way of getting out of their bubble cities. Humans cannot participate in adventures outside of their city. Problem solved.
If you make the humans amphibious, then there's no point in some corrupt government entity controlling access to their bubble cities..they can just as easily live elsewhere.
>>44705105
>>44705070
Isn't that how Harry Potter did it as well? Harry chewed some weed or whatever?
No, wait, that turned him into a merfolk. Well, why not just have some weird plant that, when you chew it, it releases lots of oxygen somehow? You wouldn't be able to talk underwater but it would work well enough.
>>44705122
Where will the wood come from?
>>44705098
>>44705137
>99% of the world is now underwater after the world drowned.
Y'all are underestimating just how damn big the world is. As it is, I believe oceans cover about 71%. A 99% ocean-covered Earth still leaves plenty of room, maybe even for entire continents. Unless you want to add another couple decimal points to that or make your world smaller than Earth, you'll still have sizable islands in your world.
>>44705137
Magic?
>>44705137
Wood isn't the only thing that floats.
Magically augmented pumice or some shit.
>>44705133
That doesn't solve my problem at all. If humans are amphibious, the bubble cities wouldn't exist. They'd have no place.
>>44705137
How many modern ships are made from wood? I presume there is metalworking in this world? Low-grade steel could build pontoons, platforms and so. You could fire bricks or concrete and it would still float. Where did all the pre-drowning ships go? They clearly have a way of turning salt water to fresh water or they wouldn't be able to live for long, why can't they remove the salt from some underwater soil and plant conifers in the bubble cities and later in the floating towns? Why don't they just dry and weave seaweed into fibers for cloth ships, like Indonesians occasionally did?
>>44705207
That's what he said in his post, ya dingus.
>>44705161
It's an abstraction. The point is adventure is underwater, the campaign setting takes place underwater. The surface is enigmatic, mysterious, and yet quite empty of nearly everything but water and sky.
Think Dark Sun, but underwater.
>>44705213
None, there was metalworking in this fantasy world at one point, much has been lost including Fire itself.
>>44705220
What we're trying to tell you is that humans can't participate in the campaign if they can't breathe underwater. Let them breathe underwater for a limited time and the bubble cities will still exist, but if you want them to participate on equal footing the bubble cities won't make sense.
>>44705106
>keeps the poor stuck in one area (likely never able to leave the city).
Damn anon... you been playing Dark Heresy lately? Sure is Grim and Dark.
>>44705242
So why can't they build leather or fabric canoes? The technology could be extended to decently sized rafts with fish bone framing or whatever, tied together with ropes of seaweed into entire raft-towns. They could make nets and basically fish, or suspend nets and make fish farms. But underwater bubble cities aren't the natural conclusion to humans on a water world.
Your worldbuilding is already nonsense, just let humans breathe water like everyone else.
>>44705255
Poor people not traveling isn't particularly grim, nor is it all that rare in fantasy stories.
Waterworld guy has already made up his mind. We all have told him how to make the bubble cities work, how to explain it; shot down every time.
Jesus fuck, leave humans out or make them Kevin Costner. Shit. It's what you've always wanted Waterworld Anon.
>>44705243
Right then. So if every race has that mechanical advatnage over humans. What advatnage could humans have to even it out. Not so they can breathe underwater, but something humans have access to others don't?
>>44705276
Humans get a feat. They'll be fine.
>>44705255
That's not particularly grim.
I mean, you only need to go back to the 1700s in my country to find a time when it was literally the law that you could leave the area right around your birthplace unless you paid a monstrous sum of money to the local count.
>>44705287
Alright then, that's all I wanted to know.
Fuckin hell anons.
>>44705276
They live in bubble cities, meaning they can light fires meaning they can work metal. Give them iron or bronze. Can't do smithing under the water, except for things like gold.
>>44705290
COULDN'T*
>>44705275
I haven't made up my mind at all.
Also i'm not looking for Waterworld, more first act of the Little Mermaid.
>>44705295
Unfortunately he's already decided metalworking was lost with fire.
>>44705242
Was this world always underwater or is it relatively recent thing that happened gradually?
>>44705220
Human PCs are part of the sorcerer upper class, they've had magisurgery giving them webbed feet and gills.
Poor people are still shits stuck in the bubbles, sorcerers and nobles have the mobility to leave.
>>44705313
Then what are the katanas made from?
>>44705295
>meaning they can light fires
No they can't. I mean it when Fire has died. The drowning of the world broke it metaphysically as well. There are now only three elements, Air, Earth, and Water. All other planes are defined by the sea. The Astral Sea, the Elemental Chaos/Primordial Sea/the Abyss.
>>44705313
So what, even if you had a bunch of dried kelp you couldn't make it as much as smoulder? I can see making give magic fail but screwing with prime plane physics seems a bit much. Sounds more like Exalted logic.
>>44705314
It happened some time ago, and it wasn't gradual at all. It was an apocalyptic event.
>>44705364
Then humans wouldn't have had time to adapt and any bubble cities would have had to have been there all along. I dunno I'd sooner make the calamity convert everyone to water breathers automatically bubble cities can then be made because fuck who wants to live in the clammy water all the damn time?
>>44705353
>The drowning of the world broke it metaphysically as well.
Wait, so there's no sun? The element associated with life, birth, creation, and the noble aspect of the soul is just completely gone?
Christ. I can only hope that the game is going to be about returning the natural balance, because, otherwise, I can't see any way for the world to not die a slow, declining death.
>>44705391
Good point.
I was thinking bubble cities will likely have been hastily constructed things maintained by powerful mages or other magical means. The city is more like a section that was preserved, surrounded by ruins.
>>44705412
No there is light, it comes from above. In this world those qualities are attributed to air and breath.
>>44705353
By that logic, wouldn't this be a frozen ice world?
The heat has to come from somewhere mang.
>>44705418
Hastily constructed while everyone was a thousand fathoms below the sea and drowning?
>>44702520
Which cleric is best cleric?
>>44705438
No, more like in the throes of doom. Think the sinking of Atlantis in Atlantis the Lost Empire. A costly magic that preserved what it could in the moment as everything sank.
>>44705412
>so there's no sun
That's...actually a really good point.
Without fire, there's no sun. Without the sun, there's no photic region. Without the photic region, there's no marine snow. Without marine snow, there's no reliable source of nutrients for the aphotic region.
Going from the other direction: Without fire, there are no hydrothermal vents. Without hydrothermal vents, there are no black smokers. Without black smokers, there are no chemosynthetics to serve as the base of the food chain.
How in the hell does this system work? There's no source of energy to sustain the biosphere.
>>44705438
Local Wizard/s creates huge bubble around their towers and portions of a city as the world floods. Seems viable.
>>44705433
Heat is still a thing. Steam is very important and magma still exists, there are underwater volcanos still.
>>44705462
Shit, I gotta rewatch that
>>44705468
>Without fire, there's no sun
but that's wrong though
>>44705432
Where does the hell does the light come from?
Also, for what possible fucking reason is life associated with air when almost everyone can breathe water just fine? Seems like air would be associated with death, given how much beaching can fuck over whales and how immediately fish die when their gills dry out.
>>44705468
>without fire there's no sun
The sun isn't fire, it's a superheated plasma caused by nuclear fusion (hydrogen and helium). Combustion (fire) is never involved.
>>44705491
How is there a giant ball of fire if fire doesn't exist?
>>44705498
>>44705491
Welcome to fantasy, guys, this has already been stated to be a system where the "elements" aren't Hydrogen and co., but Water, Air, Earth, etc. Read the thread, dammit.
>>44705510
>great ball of fire
You must be a troll.
>>44705498
And the fact that, in every fantasy universe and historical culture, the sun is associated with fire is completely irrelevant?
>>44705493
Fish still breathe air, they just grab it from water that flows over their gills. Gasses can dissolve into water, anon. It's how your coke bubbles.
>>44705521
read the damn thread ffs
>>44705353
>>44705493
Good point, but fish breathe oxygen which in fantasy terms falls under air.
I do like that dichotomy though. The surface means death.
>>44705444
Depends on what kind of cleric'n you're wantin' to do.
I'm partial to the Knowledge Cleric myself. Very bardish. But not too bardish if you get my meaning.
>>44705526
But this is specifically talking about cultural associations.
If someone's alive when they're in water, and everyone who goes out of the water eats shit and dies, which one's gonna be associated with death?
>>44705525
The sun is associated with light and heat, fire is also associated with light and heat. It's a natural conclusion to make that the two must be related, but they aren't.
>>44705560
Yeah, the sun it seems in D&D terms is associated with Positive Energy? Radiant damage harms the undead quite potently.
>>44705432
>>44705484
>>44705491
>>44705498
>Fire doesn't exist
>Literally every possible association with fire still exists, you just can't get anything to actually catch on fire
This is the laziest goddamn worldbuilding I've ever heard, and also the least internally consistent. As far as I can tell, the fact that fire doesn't exist has no meaningful impact on anything.
>>44705553
Is the death cleric alright?
>>44705579
Shit is broken dude. Do you this much when you're reading Dark Sun too?
>>44705498
>>44705550
Trying to hold to this level of scientific knowledge is absolutely retarded if you've said that oxidation simply doesn't happen.
Fish don't breathe oxygen, they breathe water. If you told anyone back in the days of alchemy that fish breathe air, they'd laugh at you.
He just doesn't want the players to get equipment more advanced than the stone age shit he's willing to bestow, anon
>>44705581
They're all pretty decent except for Trickery imo.
>>44705601
Alright then.
Thinking on it, I like it even more. Air means life and spirit to humans. It means death to others.
>>44705572
>>44705579
Actually, I just thought of one.
>in a world wracked with metaphysical apocalypse, the elemental forces have sprung out of alignment
>without the Radiant energy from the Sun and the element of Fire, necromantic energy has become much more potent than it was in the old, drier world
>now, aquatic necromancers wield terrifying might in the form of vast armies of drowned, unbreathing zombies that shamble endlessly on the darkened seafloor, destroying all in their path and capturing territory for their lich-lords!
In this case, the association with fire and radiant/holy damage still exists, and therefore the consequence of not having that holy damage still around in any form means that things have tipped heavily in favor of dead things. I don't know, does that make sense?
I think people are getting hung up on how fucked up everything is instead of just trying to run with it and work things out.
>>44705581
I run some as occultists in my game. They are okay flavorwise. Mechanically, their abilities only lend themselves to melee combat or duplicating necro spells on close targets.
I would say good nova potential, but they only get one attack without multiclassing.
>>44705598
Dark Sun actually bothers to make the losses have real impacts on the world. The fact that the sorcerer-kings are in power is the direct result of the fuckery that occurred, and the loss of divine magic is strongly felt.
In this case, fire is gone and...that means absolutely fuck-all. Everything that fire did is still done, every possible meaningful consequence has been nullified, and it's entirely possible for that fact to never come up. The world's flooded, but that could easily occur without the loss of an entire element.
>fire doesn't exist
I guess that puts a stop to all non-bacterial metabolism too, then. Enjoy your dead and unrusting world.
>>44705560
We're talking about a setting where the metaphysical representation of fire went 'boink' and fucking disappeared.
When that's something that can actually happen, you have to consider that maybe physical laws as we know them might not be strictly in play.
>>44705645
>Everything that fire did is still done, every possible meaningful consequence has been nullified, and it's entirely possible for that fact to never come up.
But that's just you saying that. All OP's actually said is that fire's gone and that the world is flooded. Hell, he's explicitly mentioned that metalworking is impossible now, which completely contradicts what you're getting worked up so much about.
Fucking Christ, I'm only half-paying attention to this thread but it seems like you're not reading it at all!
>>44705629
That's interesting. I was defintiely going to have a strong undead presence in the campaign too. The ruins littered with the ghosts of the confused and angry dead, and skeletons with bones picked clean and covered in barnacles/coral.
>>44705682
You can metalwork without fire though. If you use magic to become immune to heat you could build a forge out of a deep sea heat vent, and with some magitech you could have electrical/magical heat smelters and forges.
>>44705629
>I think people are getting hung up on how fucked up everything is instead of just trying to run with it and work things out.
No, the problem is that things aren't actually fucked up at all. Every time someone tries to work out a consequence of how things would be, he rushes in to say that the consequence isn't a problem because X.
Shit, a slowly dying world is totally my jam, but you have to actually commit to what an apocalypse means.
>With the death of fire, the sun was extinguished. Without the plant life to support a photic zone, life retreated downwards, clustering around the black smokers. However, as the core of the world has cooled, the smokers have grown less and less productive, and mages studying them have begun to fear that there may not be much time left.
That'd be fun as hell, and could lead into blood magic as a source of "new" life--without fire to start the process, we start cannibalizing the life energy of the poor and disenfranchised, desperately staving off the end. Meanwhile, strange life forms begin to emerge out in the dark depths of the freezing waters--strange creatures of ice and death, with no need for fire to sustain them.
>>44705645
The real impact are that sorcerer-monarchs rule the bubble cities, and nearly everyone else is primitive as fuck. All knowledge of previous ages have been mostly lost, with only sculptures and carvings remaining. No books, scrolls, maps, survive unless in the bubble cities, but the ever present dampness will get to it in time. Most cloth has rotted or been eaten. Metal has rusted to brittle and poisonous relics. There are only echoes left.
>>44705717
Sounds like Grixis.
>>44705717
Your one post of world building is a thousand times more compelling than the dozens of posts we've gotten from Waterworld anon.
That'd be fun as hell, and could lead into blood magic as a source of "new" life--without fire to start the process, we start cannibalizing the life energy of the poor and disenfranchised, desperately staving off the end. Meanwhile, strange life forms begin to emerge out in the dark depths of the freezing waters--strange creatures of ice and death, with no need for fire to sustain them.
Goddamn I love this.
>>44705682
That's the one thing that he mentioned, which makes no real sense in a world where spells can easily shape metal. Not to mention the fact that he explicitly said that heat is still a thing, with underwater volcanos called out. And gods of the forge are usually volcanic, so it's not that much of a leap to say that you could set up a forge next to a hydrothermal vent.
>>44705733
What does that have to do with the loss of fire? That's just everything being flooded, which could easily happen without fire going poof.
>>44705684
Yeah, thanks!
I was thinking it would be really cool. You'd have the classic necromancer enemy archetype leading his army of the damned and an in-world-explanation for why they might be srs bsns.
I was thinking it might also be cool to make them spooky looking merfolk. The necromancers themselves, I mean. They could swim over and around their troops.
>The shambling shapes of centuries-dead humans come into view from the murk
>Swimming over them is the dark, gaunt form of their merfolk master, his robes billowing behind him in the current
I feel like the three-dimensional opportunities combat will allow for in this setting might be a bit much to handle, but I imagine you've already given thought to that.
>>44705468
So, the only situations where there are no consequences are situations where you've explicitly imagined that there are workarounds like "magitech" and deep sea heat vents that you have no way of knowing exist in this setting? Is it just me, or does that make about as much sense as accusing Tolkien of being a hack for not having the hobbits fly in a fucking plane?
>>44705717
The loss of metalworking is something WaterworldAnon has explicitly stated as an effect of the loss of the sea.I agree that having the slowly dying world would be cool shit, which is probably why I'm getting in on this "undead armies of the ocean" gimmick so hard, but it doesn't sound like that's what he's going for tonally speaking.
>>44705745
I admit it's awesome, the setting clearly needs work which it why I come here.
The main reason why I like that fire is gone, is that society will need to work around that loss. Phosphorus or bioillumination or light, harnessing steam for heat. Metal becomes incredibly rare and precious.
>>44705778
Fuck. For my second reply, I meant to reply to >>44705707. Sorry, trying to do two things at once. Probably shouldn't be
>>44705790
How in the world do you get steam without fire though? And if you're heating water with something else to get steam (magma, etc), why not just use that for heat in the first place?
>>44705778
>The loss of metalworking is something WaterworldAnon has explicitly stated as an effect of the loss of the sea.I agree that having the slowly dying world would be cool shit, which is probably why I'm getting in on this "undead armies of the ocean" gimmick so hard, but it doesn't sound like that's what he's going for tonally speaking.
I do want the dying world, one of my main inspirations, but rather than everything drying out to dust, I wanted everything to drown instead.
>>44705778
>deep sea heat vents that you have no way of knowing exist in this setting?
>>44705484
>>44705804
I'm that guy, and not Waterworld anon. I was just trying to say that losing fire doesn't mean losing metalworking. After living on the ocean floor a few decades, explorers would probably have found these hydrothermal vents and shit.
>>44705756
Then commit to the loss of fire. Axe the sun, have the vents slowly cooling off. No new influx of life means that everyone's clustered around the remaining embers, fighting each other for a spot to keep themselves warm...
...but life is a funny thing, and will find a way to adapt. From the perspective of nature and history, this is just the end of one age and the start of a new one. New creatures emerge, as they always have, and the world keeps on spinning.
But, from the perspective of the races currently struggling to remain alive, that shift means their extinction. Why should they be pleased that there are necro-cryo-sharks swimming happily through the water? Even if those should one day develop into necro-cryo-shark-people, that race would represent their replacement--not their salvation.
>>44705816
Easier to move steam around than magma?
>>44705811
Steam is metaphysically places between Air and Water. Magma between Air and Earth.
I threw this together the other day based on some sudden inspiration for a "challenge" mechanic somewhat similar to the Crown Paladin's channel divinity. I ended up making a fighter subclass based around it. Any input would be appreciated.
>>44705819
Yeah, realized that shortly after I posted it. My bad, man.
>>44705790
Hmm. If we're saying that phosphorous, magma, steam, etc., all still exist, I can't say that it makes hella sense to have Fire, elementally speaking, completely gone/caput/vamoose, you know? So maybe tone down the complete absence of elemental fire to a severe weakening. Maybe the PC's destiny is to attempt to restore the balance somehow by strengthening elemental Fire. Not sure how they'd do that, but it's a possible hook.
>>44705824
>Axe the sun, have the vents slowly cooling off
I'm not going to do this, because I also love the ecosystems surrounding coral reefs and black smokers. Light is a big deal, there are places where it doesn't reach.
What I will do, is have natural sources of heat difficult to use, and alternatives like bloodheat coming to the front. Metal suddenly becomes very symbolic.
>>44705860
Hmm, maybe. I wanted Fire to be like the Gods in Dark Sun. Absense means alternatives and work arounds.
>>44705860
>main quest: Restore the element of fire to dry out the world.
>effects: Humanity restored to glorious power,merfolk communities on what suddenly becomes land die out en massa, large scale land-ocean war in the future.
>side quest: Stop the merfolk necromancers and the undead water-cold armies.
>effects: Short-term respite.
>>44705860
>If we're saying that phosphorous, magma, steam, etc., all still exist, I can't say that it makes hella sense to have Fire, elementally speaking, completely gone/caput/vamoose, you know?
That's exactly what you were arguing against in >>44705778, though.
Man, I'm just confused now.
>>44704496
Personally I like playing a world with a lot of history and I don't really have the time or creativity to fully flesh out a setting that is as storied as many of the pre-written settings. Some people see that as a bad thing, but eh. It's not like I chain myself to the lore of the setting, I feel as though I can alter it to fit what I want to say as I see fit, but having a world with a long history of shit that I don't always have to make up on the fly (which may end up contradicting something I said earlier) can be useful.
>>44705880
The problem, as >>44705860 finally agreed, is that that just doesn't make any sense. Those are all basically small fires from a metaphysical perspective--with the exception of the black smokers, which are all fueled by the same BIG fire.
>>44705901
I can foresee that restoring the full power of fire in that way might carry some moral weight, if a good swath of merfolk would die because of it. That could be something to explore, too, by having extremist NPCs on different sides, maybe.
>A lone, crazed, rebellious human mage who calls himself The Pyromancer extolls the PCs to help him restore Fire
>tells fables to his flock of the Forgotten Element and its extraordinary power, to create a world where people could breath anywhere and the merfolk were constrained to their cities! A world where humans were dominant... and free!
>>44705920
Well, yeah, I missed something pretty important, and said some stupid stuff as a result. That's my fault. I'm sorry if I said anything upsetting; that was my mistake.
>>44705880
>Bloodheat
What even is this? Blood isn't all that hot. I'm not sure it would work for a heating system.
>>44705967
Fire fuelled by human sacrifice, anon. A portmanteau of blood magic and fire magic.
>>44705967
An earlier suggestion in the thread, using negative energy/necromancy as an alternative to fire. I really loved the idea.
>>44705893
They're already living under the water. What does the loss of fire actually do to them, given that fire doesn't actually burn in water?
Just have the world be flooded if all you want is to kill off the literal use of open flames.
>>44705948
So it makes more sense, that fire isn't dead, but is very weak in this world, instead?
I was thinking of having displaced ifrit stranded, appearing like demons of steam.
>>44705984
Are you talking about >>44705717? Because that's directly predicated on the loss of the sun and black smokers.
>>44705988
They live in bubble cities. We wanted them to light fires from dried kelp or whale oil or whatever to dry out their houses and forge swords, Waterworld anon didn't.
>>44705984
No, that post was about using blood magic to make up for the fact that, without fire, there's no source of life via sunlight or hydrothermal vents. Basically using the poor as batteries to fuel farming to make up for the loss of photo- or chemosynthesis as the base of the food chain.
>>44706007
Why didn't he just point out that swords are a shitty weapon underwater because the resistance would slow your swing?
>>44706028
That's a whole other school of fish i'm tackling. As a general rule, piercing damage weapons are fine. Most other things are shit.
>>44706004
Yes. And do throw in the "We're all dying aspect", maybe with an option where the players can restore fire and the surface, at the cost of the millions of merfolk lives that now live on what used to be the surface.
A good and evil end, because the apocalypse is a shitty thing and you either die or kill someone else.
>>44706007
>>44706004
>fire isn't dead, but is very weak in this world, instead
>Waterworld anon didn't... want them to light fires from dried kelp or whale oil or whatever.
I feel like it bears mentioning that we can have it both ways on this.
Ancient myths frequently make a big deal out of fire being, at some point, a gift from the gods. In the case of Greek myth, for example, the secret of fire is stolen from the gods by Prometheus and given to humanity. Before then, humans are said to have lived in darkness and eaten only raw meat. Perhaps it could be that, during the immense elemental apocalypse that so weakened the element of Fire in the world and drowned it in water, that the secret of Fire itself was lost to humanity?
This would a) make a plausible excuse for why bubble-city people don't strictly speaking have their own ways of making fire, b) add another level of mythological weirdness, and even c) provide ambitious fire-friendly adventurers a way of restoring balance: they have to journey to wherever the secret of Fire could be found and return it.
That could be neat.
>>44706043
Presumably, despite being bludgeoning weapons, unarmed strikes are also fine.
>>44704926
>3.PF kid tries to game the rules
That is why DM's hate you
>>44706064
Holy shit I didn't even think of this. Yes, this is awesome.
Goddamn guys this place is way better than the worldbuilding thread.
This feels relevant.
>>44706064
Yeah, going fall-out mythology and stealing fire back from the gods would be cool as fuck too. People still know how to strike flame, but without the mystic aspect of fire in their possession, they can't actually get fire going.
>>44706064
I feel like, while the SECRET of fire may be lost to humanity, the fact that they're the only ones who can't breathe water should mean that they still have some elemental connection to it.
Because, honestly, why would everything else be able to adapt, but not them?
>>44706081
>taking shitposts seriously
>>44706076
Nah. Mantis and pistol shrimp work by cavitation, not bludgeoning. Water resistance would play havoc with slicing and bludgeoning weapons. Piercing would be the shit.
>rapiers and tridents side by side
>>44706064
It would also explain why everything else that uses fire (photosynthesis, chemosynthesis, convection, magma, steam, et cetera) is functioning just fine. They don't need to know how it works, they just do it.
>>44706111
Cavitation would still be represented as bludgeoning damage in D&D terms, though, since cavitation isn't its own damage type. And I defy you to tell me that a class capable of doubling its speed as it levels up isn't capable of shrimp-style punching.
>>44706119
>photosynthesis, chemosynthesis, convection, magma, steam, etc
None of those are fire.
>>44706090
It is, but i'm going to boost the variety of weapons that can fit those broad weapon types.
>>44706147
They're heat.
I am the Waterworld-anon and I see the point of it now. The argument convinced me, and I love the more mythic idea that fire isn't gone, but the secret of fire is lost.
>>44706076
Yes, unarmed strikes are fine.
>>44706089
That's because the worldbuilding thread is filled with people looking for feedback on their own ideas, rather than people gathered to discuss and argue with each other.
There's a reason that I don't bother going in there despite spending most of my time working on my setting. It's like a giant circle jerk where everyone's waiting to be jerked before they themselves start jerking.
>>44706147
Jesus Christ, are we still doing this? They're not literal flames, but at the point at which there are four elements, and the discussion of "fire died off" is even capable of being had, the conception of fire has to extend beyond the visual aspect of combustive oxidation.
I am dealing with a War cleric 4/ Fighter 1 with Polearm master, sentinel, and tunnel fighter fighting style. Minotaur were "too easy". He found gargoyle challenging for him, and the party agrees, but we all agree that that is due to their resistances. So far overwhelming numbers, reflex saves, and taking down the other party members are working well. I know he had a huge problem with Ankhegs since one took him down and ripped a leg off. Aside from rust monsters, any way I can challenge this guy?
>>44706263
Tunnel fighter is fucking retarded, why'd you allow it?
>>44706263
Ranged weapons.
>>44706263
Puzzle monsters and things that prey on his weaknesses. Charm effects are always fun.
Is Wizards serious with this bullshit?
It isn't even corrected in the Errata
>>44705851
>Potentially up to 7 Action Surges per Short Rest
I'm probably the worst person in the world at trying to balance stuff, but even to me that seems insanely overpowered. Even at 18th level.
And two immunities to boot?
>>44706320
Centered on you, there are eight directions in which it could go while moving directly away from you.
Boom.
>>44705220
>Poke holes in their scuba mask
>Roll to hold breath
>>44706320
>i didn't like 4e, everything sounded the same
This is what we get. It's not the natural language we need, but the natural language we deserve.
>>44705851
Just go Swashbuckler rogue and refluff.
>>44706353
On a grid you cannot center a 20-foot sphere on yourself.
>>44706363
4e wasn't bad per se, it was just that abilities were all kind of samey. Fighter does dice damage to enemies next to him, wizard gets pretty much the same effect with his fireball and so on.
>>44706363
Spell descriptions are generally pretty bad in 5e, much worse than 3.5 because the language they use is straining against all the limitations made to the spells for balance purposes.
>The Fabricate description mentions that you could use it to make a bridge
>The allowed area means that you would never use it to make a bridge
>>44706297
>>44706297
I knew it was retarded, he knew it was retarded. We both agreed it was the logical progression of his character, if I allowed it. Dude is on point with the RP, the heals/ buffs, and is fun to play with. I have warned the table that I am not allowing this build ever again.
>>44706313
Puzzle monster? What do you mean by that?>>44706299
His AC is pretty high. Most things miss him.
>>44704337
Wow, that's actually really good, thanks for the link mate.
>>44706500
>Puzzle monster? What do you mean by that?
Something in a position where he cant hit it to death.
>>44706514
Ok, I have something I could eventually do with a ghost. And if he tried to hit that to death, he would cause PvP, I am certain.
>>44706500
Have enemies gain advantage against him (for instance, from being hidden).
Ranged spells that force saves.
Enemies with reach greater than or equal to his.
Disarm him.
Traps.
Just make sure that he's on board with you doing this to give him a greater challenge. Because if he's having fun and everyone else is having fun, and you shit on it, you're just being That Guy.
>>44705468
> how in the hell does this system work.
Hmm, I don't know anon...
So since we're doing world building here, I was wondering if someone could help me out with my idea too.
What I have is basically a slightly steampunk world (elves, dwarves, highest level of tech is fairly simple firearms and hot air balloons, one of the human cities has a steam-powered underground tram and a "no horse shit in the city centre" rule) where the humans are mostly about tech because they're generally poor at magic, while the dwarves are isolationist and high-tech in their own way (Roman Empire type torsion tech turned up to 11 with magic-aided metallurgy), and the elves ignore tech for basically magic because they have loads of it. Civilisation is based on the two continents that elves and humans started out on, which are connected in a Eurasia-like way, and a smaller continent a bit further away about half the size of Australia where dwarves started out. The dwarves are mostly living in their mountain strongholds, so the land of Australia is still mostly uninhabited, and that's why the humans and elves are colonising it for the last fifty years or so. There are three main countries colonising Australia, and also elves from several elf nations doing a joint venture. The plot would be based around the colonies of a slightly militant human nation, a highly religious independent human colony, and the freshly independent colony of "freedom, fuck yeah!", interacting with the dwarves who aren't too pleased about their land being grabbed by foreigners.
What I was wondering was if anyone knew how I could spice this setting up? Right now it's pretty much looking like a very bland "Eberron"-"18th century Europe-America relations" mix.
My group basically does multiple games in our own settings and so far we've had a "everything is set on islands floating around in the air" setting, a "totally not the nation of Cheliax from Pathfinder" setting, and a "Ice Age Apocalypse" setting. Apart from the Ice Age Apocalypse, it's all been pretty shit so far, unfortunately.
>>44706479
>The Fabricate description mentions that you could use it to make a bridge
>The allowed area means that you would never use it to make a bridge
You can fabricate a Large or smaller object
(contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufcient quantty of raw
material.
40ft long bridge per casting seems pretty damn long, why wouldn't this be bridge worthy again?
>>44706500
Find some monsters that target his bad saving throws, try something like a Mind Flayer Arcanist commanding a hive of Intellect Devourers for the next Big Bad if you really wanna challenge him.
If his weapon is non-magical, try a Black Pudding.
Try to include more spell casters in general in your encounters.
>>44706415
I played 4E for a few years and I never thought the "samey" complaint was very justified. Most classes had enough going for them in terms of features, builds, and feats that you could make them stand out if you wanted to. Overall I'm also enjoying 5E but I certainly miss the comparative clarity that 4E's powers usually had.
>>44706554
Oh, obviously. I don't want to kill this character until they have the ability to cast raise dead if wanted (though he is the cleric). He is one of my best, and I value providing entertaining gameplay. Part of being entertaining is challenging my players creativity.
>>44702832
Go read the Psionics unearthed arcana.
Theres a Psion archetype that runs super fast, is hard as fuck to hit and can make their sword a incorporeal psychic weapon that cuts through armor really easy.
>>44706500
It sounds like he is pretty good against big dumb brutes that stay in melee. Its usually pretty normal for most builds to have at least one thing like this that they excel at. The problem is it seems like thats the kind of encounter you like to run. Ranged creatures, spell casters, and the environment are your friend anon. Have traps that are triggered during combat, or hobgoblins fucking shit up from murderholes. How does this party deal with fireballs? Fireballs from a pyromancer who has summoned fire elementals?
Anyway to play D&D with other anons online?
>>44706898
Have you tried the fucking Gamefinder thread?
>>44706665
Throw in something very wrong or weird. This thing is a source of power or magic.
The Dwarves are protecting/preventing something. New colonies are disturbing this.
>>44706857
I'm running PotA. Right now they have not fought the fire cult at all, and just finished a five combat brawl in the gardens of the earth cult monastery. I was nice with the Unber Hulk, who dropped players then fled to wreak more havoc in the surrounding hills. There are still enemies there, but for the parties purposes they consider it a rousing victory. They were doing this as a job for the air cult, as all but the cleric (the only surviving original member) have not fought them. The Air cult (through representatives from Feathergale Knights) is going to surprise them at their next long rest, offer fast travel to a town of the parties choosing, and take them there to receive payment. But first there will be a minor detour to force evil actions from the party, as the Air Cult has learned of the Aaracokra paired near their dungeon, and want to force the cleric to help them kill the bird people. This is important, as the party was saved at level two by these Aarocokra, and basically lied to them for help. The diminished tribe will attack after a few biting verbal attacks, along with their hidden Air Elemental ally. If the party aides the cult, they receive their promised reward (4,000 GP, scrolls of gaseous form, invisibility, and fly, six basic healing potions, oil of slipperiness, two potions of climbing, a potion of fire breathing, and a potion of water breathing) and the location of the water cult. If the party refuses and aides the Aarocokra (and survives, since I'm thinking of having five Aarocokra vs. ten Knights, a priest, seven hippogriffs, and a giant vulture) I am thinking of gifting the party an Air Elemental Gem, from the DMG. If the Aarocokra suffer minor losses due to help from the party, I was thinking of allowing future characters to be of that race. Thoughts?
>>44706898
Roll20
>>44706944
Okay, I like that. I was essentially going to do a mini-underdark based out of abandoned Dwarven cities and strongholds, but my idea for that was sidequests or peripheral events. Focusing on it sounds like it could be interesting, and it would give the dwarves a reason to have an arms race. I'll have the elves try to muscle in on it too I guess.
Is there a PCGen style app for 5e?
If you have a character in the party who is a dragon sorcerer who always wears a hood due to facial deformities, and the other members of the party are hassling them to see their face, can't I just roll a persuade check to try and persuade one of them to give up? What would that be contested against? Or is the skill not meant to be used that way, like, against other players?
>>44708307
You can either tell the other players OOC to just give up because it won't happen, or have him get really upset because they won't drop it, and show them his face. Describe it in excruciating detail, then end by saying that, once they're able to peel their eyes away from all his deformities, they have just enough time to see how sad and hurt he is before he pulls the hood back up and turns away.
Use good roleplaying to make them feel bad for their characters being a dick to this other character.
