If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed.
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/sYFe4hcd
Previous thread >>44632482
Smite Evil edition
>>44648388
What *is* wrong with human women?
>Wisdom in the Flesh
>Select any Strength-, Constitution-, or Dexterity-based skill.
>Constitution-based skill
>>44648388
4th for memes
As a Wisdom-based character, what kind of hoops can I jump to have a good Intimidate bonus?
Wasn't there some way to get STR to Intimidate?
I don't intend to make one of those demoralize builds, I just want to have a good Intimidate for RP.
>>44648625
Play an inquisitor with the heresy inquisition, use wisdom instead of cha for intimidate. Then yeah intimidating prowess lets you add STR to intimidate on top of that.
>>44648494
You know, like Fortitude saves!
>>44648625
Conversion and Reformation inquisitions net you Wisdom to Intimidate.
Intimidating Prowess nets you Strength on top of your mental stat to intimidate.
If your Charisma is terrible but your Intelligence is decent, you can grab either Bruising Intellect or Clever Wordplay traits to get Int to intimidate.
If I make a gunsmoke mystic what stat distribution should I go for at 30 pb.
>>44648650
>Skill
>Fortitude save
>>44648388
>>44648438
How many of you actually play non-standard, non-joke (re: Kobolds, Gelatinous Cube, etc) races?
>>44648694
My GM stated up the loli template once, does that count?
>>44648694
Kobold is on my top two list for small races I like to play with Ratfolk, does that count? I hate playing any of the core races.
>>44648693
Yeah! It's a skill!
Just like hit points!
>>44648685
DEX>WIS>CON>INT>STR>CHA
>>44648763
I'd argue that Cha is more important than Int for them, because they want UMD.
>>44648732if you keep playing the way you are, you're gonna have a bad game.
Is there any way to increase the crit multiplier of my weapon by 1? Ultimate Psionics and Path of War are on the table. Preferably a feat or something.
For a generic "hit enemies with my hands until they die" Unchained Monk, is there a major difference between doing a STR build and a DEX build?
Is one just straight better?
>>44648771
UMD checks don't really scale past 20. Whereas Spellcraft is a discipline skill for Elemental Flux and INT based.
>>44648694
I like to play catfolk and kitsune from time to time.
>>44648771
There's a trait that lets you use int for UMD though.
>>44648752
>inb4 midget comedy hour, angry violent midget comedy hour, or pedoshit
>>44648771
You can swap UMD into Int with a trait.
>>44648763
Also, Elric, word on the Skin of the Defender question?
>>44648694
GRIPPLI MASTER RACE HERE
SUCK MY FROG DICK, PLEBEIANS
>>44648838
I haven't gotten a response yet. All I can say until then is to use your best judgement.
>>44648824
>>44648752
>catfolk, ratfolk
Am I the only one that hates the '-folk' suffix? I guess its more straight forward and easy for the layman to remember, but it lacks a lot of 'oomph' or cultural feeling to it like an invented language name would.
'xfolk' and 'xlings' sound exactly like stunted midget matters-not-a-bit hobbits, or for comedy.
>>44648885
I can agree on that, at least the ratfolk on mars I mean Akiton call themselves Ysoki. Bad name doesn't stop the race itself from being pretty solid, doesn't follow the "rats are evil" trope. Just inquisitive and not particularly greedy merchants.
>>44648885
I agree.
However, people usually suck dick at naming races, and you get trash that looks like they banged the keyboard and added a couple letters.
I've seen only a handful of races that have good names that aren't suffixed. Not including the basics which we're all used to and take for granted as being well-named.
>>44648885
Actually I like to imagine it's a name other races came up for them rather than what they call themselves.
>>44645304
Why does the Shattered Mind they get magic implements instead of psionic discipline implements?
>>44648911
>Ratfolk on Akiton
Do they ride bikes?
>>44649007
Lazy racist humanoids you mean.
>>44649080
One can only hope.
>The only DSP monk archetype isn't truly unarmed
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Does DSP have a Wis-based unarmed combat archetype somewhere? I can't keep track of all these bloody google docs, however useful they may be.
>>44648388
what is the source of this image? google search got me nowhere.
>>44649144
Stalker is Wis-based and has access to broken blade.
>>44649170
I'd like something specifically geared for Unarmed, with the free feats and the higher damage dices and all that.
>>44649144
Stalker and Aurora Soul Mystic both do unarmed fairly well. Deadly Fist Soulknife can, too.
>>44649182
It's from the inner sea races supplement
>>44648694
I ran a game that required non-humanoid characters at the start. Ended up with a Dragonwrought Kobold, a couple of dragons, one Draconion and a Grimlock. Was supposed to be a one-shot game a few years ago.
>One shot became hack-and-slash backup game.
>Became semi-adventure looting game.
>Became revenge quest story ame.
>Became tribal survival game.
>Became nation building game.
>Became Competing Nation building game.
>Became Civilization 5 with dragons behind everything.
We have reached level 21 and we're about to hit the next big stage. I hope it goes over well.
>>44648694
I'm playing an ex-familiar cat using Tibbit stats in one game. Often play warforged or other robots as well.
>>44648810
I believe there's a weapon augmentation, either Laminated or Razored, in Ultimate Equipment. I don't know if that counts as 3rd party however. One of the above increased the crit Multiplier and the other increased the crit Range I think.
>>44649144
Mystic(Aurora Soul)
>>44648911
>>44648957
>>44649007
Its not too hard to make up a name though. Go look up what some foreign words are for that thing, lets say cat men, and go with Maori for dog; kuri, then bastardize it a bit when pluralized, such as Kurin or Kurit.
What are some good backup weapons for a Draconic Bloodrager?
>>44648818
Strength doesn't need two or three extra feats just to deal damage effectively, so that's probably the better one for just Hit The Horse Until It Stops Vomiting Money builds. Dex is more "The DM is going to spam touch-attack enemies because the party's average AC is twice their CR+20"
>>44649305
>dog man
Whoops typo
>>44649313
Claws?
I need some advice.
I'm building a Wizard in a part technology guide game.
I'm looking for any must-have spells for fighting enemies primarily using ranged energy weapons against touch AC.
Opposition schools: Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion Necromancy
(We have a shadow sorcerer, so I imagined the conjuration/illusion fields would be taken care of. The robots are immune to mind-affecting so enchantment was mostly useless.)
>>44649299
>>44649202
>>44649197
So, out of Soul Hunter Stalker and Aurora Soul Mystic, which one performs better at straight-up DPR?
It'd be the Stalker, surely?
>>44649273
>Ultimate Equipment
>3rd party
u wot m8
Also, there is none of that shit there.
>>44649041
Although there aren't fully written yet (7 sets of 8 abilities is hard to write up and balance), there will be an implement for each psionic discipline, accessible by both normal occultists with the psionic subtype and shattered mind occultists.
>>44649273
I can't seem to find it herehttp://zaffudo.com/sebe/Pathfinder%20Roleplaying%20Game/PZO1123%20Ultimate%20Equipment.pdf
Ultimate equipment, right?
Hi /pfg/. I want to make a gold-scaled Kobold paladin-esque character. Not necessarily a paladin, but it have to be a heavy-armor-wearing mounted/switch-rider type guy with the ability to shove a. And yes, it has to be a kobold. DSP stuff and Pact Magic are allowed, Spheres of Power are not. So, how do I make him not suck shit?
>>44649341
Likely the stalker. Mystic's got more team buffs and animus, but the stalker has deadly strikes.
>>44649336
Using a Dr.Doom picture to ask about the worst Wizard type, please son. Conjuration is one of the best, so is illusion. If you want to be a blaster, be a sorcerer. Be a proper battlefield controller wizard. Acid pits, fog, walls of elements, etc
>>44649481
Hussar Warder. Join the Empyreal Guardians or trait into Silver Crane.
>>44649481
There is an initating paladin archetype in PoW:E. Zealot might be interesting too. There is also that one Warder Archetype I forgot the name of.
>>44649534
Well, I'm playing a Technomancer, so Doom seemed appropriate.
And like I said, we have a caster wholly dedicated to battlefield control and summoning already. So I'm trying to fill in what we're missing.
>>44649545
Hey, Elric.
The Soul Hunter Stalker can Claim creatures.
Do any of the Harbinger's Claim feats work with that?
>>44649600
Yep, except for the ones which specify requiring the dark claim class feature specifically (which IIRC is just Grasp of Darkness).
>>44649627
How'd the surgery go?
>>44649548
Ordained Defender?
where could you get a mount?
maybe dip cavalier and take horse lord?
gotta be 4 levels though, which aint fun
with the dsp trait for +2 initiator levels up to HD, you will only be 1 level behind normal initiating. So grab that trait, first 4 levels of cavaliar, then warder, and you could skip most of the bad 1st level maneuvers, go straight into 2nd level.
Beast rider cavalier for more mount options.
>>44649724
hurrr
beast rider trades away expert trainer, which you need for horse lord. I'm sure you will think of something though
Looking at counter manuevers
Which are better typically? The ones that stop any one melee or ranged attack or the ones that can stop a melee full attack but not do much for ranged? I'm assuming theres a similar debate between the ones that replace a save or the ones that end conditions/effects.
>>44649724
Rich Parents trait and buy one on the cheap from a guy who owed you a favor.
>>44649724
Hussar for the Mount
>>44648694
One of my players is playing a Kobold Paladin of St. Cuthbert.
>>44649767
The best counters, in my experience, are whichever ones allow free, non-provoking movement, regardless of what the rest of it does.
I play Warder in like 3 different campaigns and I usually move only through counters when in combat. It's the best, seriously. The GM still hates my ass for my reach warder that literally never got melee attacked in the whole campaign of 14 sessions.
>>44649410
Upon consulting with a friend of mine, I was wrong, it's in a 3.x splatbook called Mercinaries. My bad.
>>44649080
I remember that show.
Heya, /pfg/! I'm currently scraping together a cohort for Sunday game. It's going to be a couple weeks before Leadership gets to come into play, so I have some time to be sure I can finalize this d-bag. He's a Lv.6 Mystic and I'm currently trying to nail down his feats; working off of Heroic NPC stats, I've decided to dump STR and make him largely DEX-based if he were to get dragged into combat, so Weapon Finnesse and Deadly Agility are likely going to eat up a few feats. Also going to grab Craft Wondrous to try and mitigate the artificing burden on the party. What other feats might you suggest?
>>44649627
Gareth, what's the exact difference between Extended Defense and Defending the Sky? Does the latter allow you to use counters that you could only use for effects targetting you on allies as well?
>>44650209
You really ought to talk with your GM about cohorts that craft items.
It's a major balance problem, usually. If your campaign is a more by-the-books type, you might get a ton of ire from the GM once a crafting cohort gets rolling.
If he's already OK'd it, then nevermind.
>>44650316
I'm not an authority on this but the way I've been playing it is that it's literally the same except it's ranged.
What was wrong with Steel Serpent, exactly?
I vaguely remember talk of it being bad for whatever reason. I'm looking into making a character that'd be using it heavily.
>>44650471
overly relies on DCs for one
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1000000+ Whores in MS paint
>>44650330
It was one of the first things that came up in discussion. In fact, crafting is a thing he completely expects from his players if they are considering Leadership since it can help the PCs focus more on developing in the campaign rather than being shoehorned as the artificer. He even readies himself for the first character's Cohort to take Leadership to establish a character's power base in the world and generate revenue for the party. It's a thing he does from time to time as a player, so I would suspect he may have an idea on where to pull the plug if need be.
>>44649651
Went well, now in recovery phase. Not nearly as high as I thought I was gonna be, though my experience of the surgery itself went like this.
> So what's in this nose thing?
> Laughing gas
> Cool, cool.
> I should fall asleep any minute now
> Goddamn it's taking me ages to fall asleep
> Wake up Gareth
> Ma'am why are you waking me up I still need to fall asleep for the surgery
> Nope, surgery's already done
> Passed out so hard I literally did not notice passing out
>>44650316
Ahh...lemme get someone less high for this.
>>44648820
>UMD checks don't really scale past 20
Sure they do. In fact, 20 is usually the lowest DC you'll have roll against for UMD. That's also the most common, since it's the number used for wands, but UMDing a scroll (DC 20+spell level) isn't going to be terribly uncommon, and I can see emulating an alignment (DC 30) or ability score (DC target ability score + 15) as possibly coming up too.
YOu also can't take 10 on UMD, which means you need to push your UMD pretty high before you're reliably getting your attempts off. That said, I think it's better to invest in INT over CHA in this case, so I still agree with you. Full skill ranks, a class skill trait, and a UMD-boosting item are good enough for most people
>>44649534
Why would you blast as a sorcerer when wizards do it so much better? Just look at Admixturists.
>>44650653
Yeah, I feel your pain dude.
>>44650316
>Defending the Sky
It functions essentially the same as Extended Defense. The wording difference is to make it compatible with ranged weapons and counters that allow you to protect allies.
>>44650654
The nerfed UMD for the rogue skill mastery, but there is still a way to take 10 on UMD.
ON A FUCKING CASTER PRC.
Paizo should just hand Dreamscarred Press the license.
>>44650923
You mean "We have to make Soulknives shit because they used to be shit" DSP?
You mean "We have to have Psychic Reformation, it was in 3.5" DSP?
Yeah, no thanks.
>>44650923
It really does irk me that Paizo seems to feel like UMD should be primarily a caster-only thing they reluctantly share with the rogue rather than a thing rogues and other non-casters can train in.
>>44650963
faik gareth and co werent directly responsible for oldie PF psionics/PoW stuff, and are largely trying to cope with those issues.
also soulknives are baller, even discounting psyarm
>>44650963
That was an earlier time in the writing, when it was just the two boss guys and things were different.
We've learned better. We just can't un-do what was already done.
>>44650963
I've never understood the hate for psychic reformation. In most games, it works just fine for doing its job. In high-power games, it can be used as a powerful and versatile tool.
Do you guys really have no concept of self-limitations? It's like arguing that if you're playing a caster, you must have sacred geometry at all times.Soulknives a shit though. I'm just glad that they're recently getting their act together about that.
>>44650963
Soulknives are pretty good though, dunno what you are talking about.
>>44651002
Yes, but they were specifically kept more shit than they otherwise would have been. For bizarre backwards compatibility reasons.
When the Soulknife already existed in 3.5.
>>44651032
A thought occurs, Gareth.
How would you go about writing 'basic' classes?
We've seen you writing classes with extra systems, or ones with 'different' themes and whatnot, but how would you go about writing a class meant to be something as simple as 'the Fightguy'?
>>44651104
>the Fightguy
every class is "a guy who fights"
>>44650963
>You mean "We have to make Soulknives shit because they used to be shit" DSP?
It's a full BAB class with a shit ton of class abilities. This is no way near how bad Soulknife was in 3.5, it's more that it's balanced against existing Paizo full BAB classes. Not that they dragged it down to their level.
>>44651223
You know what I mean, you pillock.
Can we talk about how garbage this blade skill is? This doesn't need to exist -- It's deceptively expensive, and not worth the price you put into it.
>Costs a Blade Skill to get.
Okay, not a problem.
>Requires the weapon you are using to have the enchantment.
So you have to 1) Get a weapon, and 2) Have the enchantment that you want on it. You're looking a a minimum of 8,000gp for a +1 quality.
>Requires you to spend an additional +1 enhancement bonus to put it on your weapon.
So that aformentioned +1 quality that you dropped a blade skill and a 8,000gp is going to cost you another +1, which is the equivalent of another blade skill.
I realize this is to 'allow' Bane to exist, but as it stands, it's hella garbage for anything that isn't it, and even then, I could probably find something better for +2.
Why can't there just be a general blade skill that adds one weapon quality to your list, with Bane needing a subtype at the time of choosing?
>>44651104
If we answer this question, the team'll be offering individual perspectives as designers, not as Members of Dreamscarred Press. If you're okay with that, we can proceed.
I'd also like you to define what you mean with 'different' themes. Like, rogue has talents, for instance. Are those an extra system or a different theme for this discussion, or are we just talking about not having something as complex as spellcasting or veils?
>>44651247
Honestly, i really don't. Do you mean a guy in heavy armor who uses large weapons? A guy who is a master archer? a guy who gets in his opponents face and makes him worse at things?
What do you mean?
>>44647044
>Hey Forrest, will you ever update the Aberrant to include customization options from the newer releases?
Passed the question along to the people who knew the answer, and the answer is "yes." It'll be in a planned Psionics Augmented: Aegis book.
>>44651296
I'm cool with that.
I'm genuinely curious, and it's a helpful insight to you as designers, how you'd handle the more elementary character archetypes.
By different themes, I just meant something like the Harbinger for instance. It has a very definite theme to it, whereas something like 'fighter' or 'rogue' is more generic.
>>44651279
Not everything has to be optimal, if your DM is Monty hall it can be pretty good simply because you have a golf bag of stuff to work with.
Also it comes with a +1, as prejudiced as I am against weapon focus I don't think a +1 deserves to be just set aside that easily.
>>44651484
No no, it *costs* you an extra +1 to use that enhancement. ErrantX pointed that out last thread or the thread before that.
So if you have a +1 flaming weapon (ignore that flaming is on the soul knife list), you'd have to spend +3 in modifiers for the same effect.
>>44651547
How... are you getting that reading?
"Enhancement bonus applied to the weapon by that class feature increases by +1"
Is this like, a 'we fucked up the wording' thing, or...
>>44651296
>>44651411
If a stalker lands a critical hit on a creature immune to critical hits, does Deadly Strikes still activate?
>>44648870
*Grippplis
>>44648438
Speaking of Smite Evil, is Holy Vindicator a decent prestige class?
>>44651434
As a personal rule, I've never liked very broad concepts; I find both 'wizard' and 'fighter' to be meaninglessly wide in potential execution and like neither as a proposal for a class concept.
In the context of Pathfinder, the answer to "how would you do a class with no subsystem" is "I wouldn't."
In the broader context of a class-based system or an archetype-based system, I'd wanna look at goals. Say I wanna make, I dunno, let's call it an Operative, someone who slots into the 'special forces' or 'action hero' type role where you have a warrior type with talents in stealth, infiltration, and sabotage. Here we have a focused goal that can potentially be expressed in a variety of ways.
The core of the goal becomes the hard-locked features on the class; those are the things all examples of the class get. Expressing the goal in particular ways (such as focusing on sabotage vs. silent assassination or traps vs. teamwork infiltration or vhat have you) would then be the job of feats and list-based abilities like blade skills or rogue talents.
But honestly, end of the day, it's very hard to make a decent class in PF without access to a subsystem, and in doing so you've essentially created a miniature subsystem out of the class's abilities. So-called "simple" classes only have the appearance of simplicity; they trade complexity of build to gain simplicity of play but the complexity, like matter, never actually gets created or destroyed.
>>44651644
>Creatures immune to critical hits or precision damage cannot be targeted by a deadly strike
>>44648810
First off Stalker and Augmented Soul can both do it, as there are stalker techs and blade skills that can increase the multiplier by 1.
There's also levels in forgelord, attuning to a weapon.
And high level fighters as well, among other ways.
>>44648810
Mythic Improved Critical
>>44651674
Is this including 'subsystems' like Rogue Talents?
Or is subsystems used here only in reference to things wider in scope?
>>44651754
Used in this case to refer to things like spellcasting, psionics, maneuvers, akasha, binding, etc.
Those subsystems, assuming they're made well, provide access to versatility and flexibility either of build, play, or both that is essentially demanded as a tax on participating in higher and higher level adventures. Without access to them the class's other features - talents, class features - would have to compensate, somehow.
You can see about how well that's gone in PF thus far.
>>44651104
>>44651434
Alright, I'll take a crack at this.
First of all, I'd be loathe to do something as generic as a fighter class. It's too generic to ever provide room for any interesting and unique abilities. The class would end up spread too thin to produce any significant abilities.
If I had to put it all on one chassis, I'd do it with a set of discrete subclass packages that fit the various types of "fightguys" people might want to play. All of them would have proficiency with most weapons, but the subclasses would come with prepackaged class features that allow you to excel at your chosen fighting style.
So if, for example, you wanted to be a battlefield commander, you'd take the Tactician subclass. If you wanted to be a heavily armored S&B defender, you'd take the Knight subclass. A ranged character might be a "deadeye" subclass.
In addition to the subclass's basic abilities. I'd probably write up a few lists of unique special attacks that can be applied as part of your "fightan" like trick shots, aggro mechanics, counters and the like that would run off a Stamina system probably halfway between Grit and Power Points.
Throw on some passives to improve saves (I like the idea of fighters just shrugging off effects entirely so stuff like Evasion and Stalwart would be how I'd want it to go) and some Stamina based utility effects (skill boosts, minor healing, some special diplomacy stuff maybe, Knowledge Devotion type abilities) and there ya go. A "generic fighter."
So when is Path of War 2 coming out?
Google keeps turning out stuff for Path of War expanded, and admittedly, I'm new to 3pp for Pathfinder. My GM is suspicious of third party stuff, so I'd need a solid base to negotiate from.
>>44650963
>not effectively willing Psychic Reformation into existence for all classes because of "I don't like this choice, can I respec" types
>>44651547
It's not what the text says.
He probably has more insight in the intent of the text than me though, even if his English skills leave something to be desired.
>>44651721
>Stalker
Where?
>>44651845
There's a difference between asking the DM if you can rebuild your character, and doing it at will in the middle of a session to respond to changing circumstances.
I want to play a gargoyle in PF but according to the wiki they're a relatively powerful race. Is there anyway you guys could think of that I could cleverly use to make him start out relatively shitting but get better over time? I obviously wouldn't want to be too OP.
>>44651865
Path of War.
BAB 15, high initiation, pretty much an initiator rogue; not quite as good at skills but VERY capable in combat and with excellent utility (teleports, etc)
>>44651820
So as an immediate, if loose comparison, like if taking an archetype was a default Fighter thing.
>>44652002
There are the Watchers from bloodforge. They are gargoyle-kin
>>44652002
Refluff one of the existing flying PC races as a gargoyle
>>44652087
Very loose comparison but yes. The big difference being that the archetypes would be built into the class instead of forcing you to trade out other features.
>>44652087
Isn't this what 5e did?
What if EVERYONE were allowed to keep a separate feat build to swap to whenever you want, in a 10-minute change process?
>>44652241
That would be fucking annoying.
>>44652161
It's also more or less how the Psychic Warrior works.
>>44652002
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/total-party-kill-games/awakened-gargoyle
This is really good shit, here.
>>44652241
>An attempt to buff martials makes casters even more overpowered
Sasuga Paizo
>>44652241
I'd allow it.For the price of 2 feats.
>>44651820
>>44651674
M'kay.
So Gareth dislikes things without access to subsystems of some kind. With subsystems defined herein as systems which allow choice about how to develop said character, and with it not being the exclusive domain of one class, or else it's just a widely-variable class feature.
Meanwhile, Elric would prefer a 'subclass' sort of deal, which each Fighter choosing a package of abilities.
Meanwhile, both dislike classes with broad concepts.
>>44652350
>implying wizards give that much of a shit about feats
>>44652393
>Literally twice the metamagic feats
>>44652136
>>44652087
>>44651820
I still say this is the easiest homebrew "fix" to the fighter:
>You may put any archetypes for a fighter upon it without trading out any of its abilities; in effect, they gain additional abilities on top of their defaults. Any archetypes you put onto a Fighter cannot "stack" on the same thing however; if Lore Warden adds onto Armor Training, you cannot select Mutation Warrior as well since it also would add onto Armor Training.
>>44652393
This.
>Going human over elf
>Ever
>>44652299
quick question regarding the mystic class feature anima burn
if i spend the 2 animus and apply it to my maneuver, which is say, iron knuckles from broken blade. Does it apply to each and every damage roll in the full attack? I know it says you can only apply it once per maneuver, but I'm assuming this is so you can't spend 4 animus and get it twice to every damage roll
>>44652422
You're going to have the good ones anyway.
>>44652426
The fighter should just not be a fucking PC class and be wholesale replaced with Magus.
>>44652445
It's an untyped bonus to damage, so wouldn't it not stack with itself?
>>44652451
not at level 5
>>44652458
not everyone enjoys playing spreadsheet simulator with a spell list
>>44652458
>stupid faggot arcane tiddly finger class that's only good if you play a dex nigger
Fuck Magi.
>>44652469
which is what i specified with my assumption
built in to the feature you cant spend to do it twice in the same maneuver, obviously for that reason
>>44652528
>worthless faggot bodybuilder class that's literally only good for fighting enemies the GM specifically adds in for him to fight because he can't fucking contribute past level 5
Fuck Fighters.
>>44652445
It applies to every attack augmented by the boost.
>>44648388
Hey /pfg/!
I want to use the enforcer feat while rocking out with a rapier. Any suggestions on how to get nonlethal damage with a piercing weapon without that -4 penalty?
>>44652725
Merciful enchantment
>>44652725
Merciful weapon?
>>44652722
awesome, cheers
Is there any way to get Wis to AC that isn't a class feature?
Fighter would be great if it could:
• Prepare all of its feats in the morning each day
• On a gradually-increasing number of those feats, ignore prerequisites of skill ranks up to its level, ability scores, and any prerequisite feats you could select with this ability (but you don't get those feats, so make sure the feat you pick actually works without them)
Solves versatility, solves the Dedicate Your Build To This Barely Relevant Feat Chain bullshit.
>>44652899
That's a very powerful ability.
You ain't gonna get it as a racial trait.
>>44652941
I'm not asking for a racial trait, though, am i?
>>44652910
Fighter would be great if most feats became basic combat options and fighter feats drastically improved using those options. Also if feats scaled to BAB.
>>44652557
Do i really need to post my build again?
>>44652993
Your build that is outperformed by an unoptimized caster of any caliber is not actually impressive you shitlord.
>>44652993
Fuck off.
>>44652941
AC sucks, it isn't powerful at all.
When you start a game at a higher level (let's say level 7), and someone approaches you with a character capable of magic item crafting, how do you handle wealth by level? It makes senses that they would make their own gear, right? Shouldn't they, for spending those feats, get some extra cash or get to use those feats during creation?
I ask because one of my players is making a forgepriest warpriest. Any advice?
>>44653069
Disallow crafting, breaks the game even worse than it already is.
>>4651279
What is with the wording of picrelated. RAW weapons are added to the list, when it should say weapon's magical and psionic special abilities are added to the list?
>>44652910
>So today I take Martial Training VI, Iron Tortoise Snap, Black Seraph Annihilation, Cornugon Smash, Leadership and Improved Familiar.
>>44652899
3.5 monk's belt does it.
>>44652993
Show something at level 5 and 10 (not level 11, certainly not level 20). Somewhere in between there most campaigns collapse.
>>44653033
It is if you actually invest in it. It's just less powerful than saves. At high level you can't rely on blur due to all the alternate vision types.
Pushing touch AC to 40 makes you very secure.
So how well would a DSP only class game work?
>Stalker and it's archetypes doesn't really facilitate unarmed combat at all, it's just capable of doing it decently
>Don't want to deal with Aurora Soul's random maneuvers thing and there's not enough people to put Glyphs on
>Monk archetype uses a gauntlet and isn't actually unarmed
>Steelfist Commando doesn't fit thematically
Am I out of options for unarmed initiators, here?
>>44653097
That doesn't seem fun.
>>44653171
Refluff the steelfist commando?
>>44653171
Does Fiendbound Marauder count?Or refluffing a gauntlet as unarmed or something.
>>44653171
Deadly Fist Warsoul, nigga
>>44653161
Relatively balanced, plus or minus the usual player differences.
>>44652993
I'm much better at building broken characters than you.
>>44653171
Anon, trust me when I tell you that unarmed combat has so much love in PoW that you don't need a dedicated archetype to make it work. And refluffing is encouraged, don't get hung up on the fluff of a class or archetype.
>>44653019
I can build a very good fighter that outperforms everything but optimized 9th level casters, but that's another story.
>>44648885
Xlings - Identified by their larger than normal eyes and distrust for all others even among their own race, all have a natural tendancy to wear thinly crafted folded metals atop their heads and are mostly by and large silent. Until they believe themselves to have an audience, that is. At that point the racial trait 'Paranoia' truly shines via linking non-related phenomena together. Also bursts of schizophrenic episodes and a penchant for erratic behavior plague these otherwise peaceable creatures.
>>44653278
Post build
>>44653278
No, it's not. Tell it right now.
This is like coming into a car racing thread and saying "Me ol' grandad's tractor can outrace you lot any day, except maybe the few of you at the top end."
>>44653124
You wouldn't have a familiar from Fighter levels, Leadership isn't a combat feat. Otherwise yeah, that's cool.
This isn't going to end well
>>44653313
It's been posted before. Eobard, The Spellbane.
This is a basic concept build. It can be pushed much farther than even this.
>http://pastebin.com/62C1eicW
I'll update it later in the thread. I had a dumb idea for it.
>>44653318
Look at the build. It's pretty high performance. I just posted it.
>>44653250
The problem I'm facing is that if I go for the flavor choice I want, Soul Hunter Stalker, I'll have like 12 AC for ten years until I can finally buy a ring of protection or whatever, since my character won't be wearing armor or using a shield for flavor reasons.
I admit I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing with this system, so I'll have to ask: is there enough unarmed love in there to make my character not die to a fart with it's low-ass AC?
>>44653403
Unarmed is not unarmored. You've been saying "unarmed" and throwing people off.
Get some gloryborn armor (that /is/ a thing in Steelforge, right?)
>>44653368
>54 str
>40 con
>those saves
What?
>>44653434
No, no. It's both.
No armor, no weapon, no shield.
>>44653403
Pardon my french but what in the hell are you trying to build that you'd only have 12 AC?
Also, >>44653434 is right. Unarmed =/= Unarmored.
>>44653368
Jesus take the wheel
>>44653489
Well, basically, the character won't be using any armor, weapons, or shields.
I want to play the "surprise i'm actually a martial arts master i'm going to whoop your ass now" guy.
>>44653124
There is absolutely nothing wrong with picking those to be your primary class features (except for not being able to take Improved Familiar with those rules).
>>44653368
Dear lord this is madness.
>>44653368
>Mex level character wearing like 5x the WBL for level 20 in gear
>This is what it takes for the fighter to even come close to Timmy's Wizard who has forgotten to put skill ranks and roll hit dice sometimes
>>44653518
PF does not support this at all.
Do Paizo intend to make Unchained versions of other classes in the future?
>>44653518
That's not what I'm asking give me numbers anon. The mechanics not the flavor. What are your ability scores?
>>44653553
Yes it does.
Works fine with Monk or Aurora Soul, for example.
Aurora Soul is in fact a great fit, it's just that I really cannot be bothered to do the whole random maneuvers thing because me and the GM don't know how this system works at all yet and it's an unnecessary burden.
>>44653368
Cute.
>>44653368
where does it get rage from?
vmc alchemist and eldritch heritage for sorcerer bloodline abilities, just cant see where you get rage powers and bonuses
Is the Ashvawg Tamer archetype any good or worth trying out? I like the prospect of getting a Bulette, Behir, Manticore or hell even a Minotaur or Owlbear companion.
>>44653551
What are you talking about? He's wearing like 10k under WBL. Did you not actually read it?
>>44653575
So far I'm looking at a level 1 character starting as such:
15 STR
14 CON
18 WIS
10 in the rest
I was intending for this to be a Stalker, but I realized that Stalker doesn't get Wisdom to it's AC, unlike Aurora Soul which I passed on due to the confusing maneuver regain system and just liking Soul Hunter Stalker more overall.
Now I'm just straight-up lost, though.
>>44653597
VMC barbarian and mutation warrior archetype.
>>44653368
also goes againts RAW/RAI, you have taken eldritch heritage feats as bonus combat feats
which they cant be
>>44653673
No they aren't, they're taken as his normal feats.
>>44653648
The maneuver system isn't actually that confusing when you get down to it, although the way it's presented is complex.
It's basically "your readied maneuvers are a deck of cards. You have a hand of 2 cards granted to you of your choice, and draw a new one at the end of each turn. When you run out of deck, reshuffle the graveyard into the deck and fish out your two chosen cards to be your hand."
I would seriously recommend just getting a mithral chain shirt and refluffing it, though. The concept you're talking about isn't really support in PF.
That, or dip up to 4 levels in other classes and take Practiced Initiator (Stalker).
>>44653723
Yes they are.
>>44653723
F14 - Eldritch Heritage
15th - VMC
F16 - Improved Eldritch Heritage
im assuming f14 means his level 14 fighter feat?
same with 16
reading comprehension son
>>44653648
OK, so did you roll for these? Are they pre or post racial?
That 18 should be in DEX, the 15 should be in WIS. Then take Killer's Implements (if you have PoW:E available) or Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility if not. Use strikes to supplement your damage until you can get the feats you need: Weapon Finesse, Deadly Agility, Improved Unarmed Strike and Greater Unarmed Strike.
>>44653769
Wouldn't that just be switching them around and not actually invalidate the build? It's more the number of combat and not combat feats. He has up to 6 non combat ones and I think he only has 5.
>>44653597
>>44653655
>VMC
I haven't really read up on how this works, but isn't this barely even a fighter anymore?
>>44653822
it is nitpicky
but, this isnt RAW/RAI, he should have to pay retraining costs, then it is fine
dont be waving your optimisation dick and acting as god's gift with an illegal build
it is just lazy and leaving yourself open to criticism
>>44653368
Eldritch Heritage and it's feat line aren't combat feats and you have two levels of fighter bonus feats selecting them. Greater Eldritch Heritage requires a 17 Cha and, with what you've posted, you only have a 15. Extra Rage Power is also a general feat which you have marked as a fighter bonus feat as well. I'm probably missing something though, so take that how you will.
So I'm about to start a game. It's tristalt and 35 PB, starting at level 3. I've got a Human Swashbuckler/Serpent-Fire Adept Monk (not unchained)/PhytoKineticist who has taken a Vow of Poverty with 16 in all stats except for Int and Cha, which have 8 and 12 respectively.
Rate my odds of success and survival, /pfg/.
>>44653824
20 levels in fighter, as fighter as they come. Ignore the barbarian, wizard, sorcerer, and alchemist class features.
>>44653891
>about to start a game
>those rules
Uh huh, sure thing. This can't possibly be real.
>>44653891
If the DM is building the game for tristalt characters: you ded
If the DM is building for characters round what your stuff is: you at least have some interesting things to do, even if it's "jack of several trades, master of not many."
>>44653787
Yeah, I did roll 'em. My GM uses 4d6 drop the lowest, minimum 10. It's post-racial, I get -2 DEX, +2WIS and +2CON. I figured trying to go for a DEX build would make me worthless in the damage department too long.
What's this Killer's Implements? I can't seem to locate it.
>>44653872
Like I said. I slapped that together fairly quickly and am planning on updating it.
>>44653890
17 when not mutated, so he qualifies.
As the GM for my group has this problem with "Out of the house" sourcebooks, I was looking to either buy or compile a pdf/book of non-corebook utilities such as feats, archtypes, spells, equipment, and so on. Is there a point in doing this, or should I just stick to the hardcover books?
>>44653923
In PoW, there's a feat (Deadly Agility) for getting Dex to damage. Killer's Implements is a stalker art from PoW 2's playtest (in Systems and Use) that gives you Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility with a chosen weapon.
>>44653890
It works, just have to rearrange the feats. He still has the correct number of combat and non combat ones. Will edit it.
>>44653976
He still doesn't have 17 cha then. Which he needs for Greater Eldritch Heritage.
>>44651841
PoW2 is PoW:Expanded, if that's what you're asking.
Is it wrong to invest in INT as Trickery Domain Cleric? Herald Caller already have 4+INT from the start and being Human with 14 INT allows me to do some skill monkey stuff. It not like I needs DC for my spell anyway.
>>44654022
>>44651841
It's also not out yet. In layout, but they haven't given us a release date or even an estimate.
>>44653923
It's in Path of War: Expanded. Hence why I said " if you have it available." Its in the Systems and Use doc.
Stalkers don't do Strength. They are DEX/WIS through and through. Again, this is only if you aren't using Path of War Expanded. In PoW:E there is the brutal slayer archetype which is STR/WIS.
>>44653967
Oh, damn, so it is.
So now all I have to do is stack the fuck out of DEX and my defensive problem is solved for the most part, without sacrificing damage at all!
Why did so many of you tell me it's not viable? Is it because I can't get phat loot and/or because getting caught by surprise could lead to instant death?
>>44653976
Ah. Well you're aware that once your charisma drops to 15 due to the Mutagen you lose access to Greater Eldritch Heritage and the benefits/abilities it provides right?
>>44654016
Yes he does, he only doesn't while he is mutated. It's not a permanent bonus/penalty so it doesn't disqualify him.
Isn't there an armor quality or enhancement that allows you to snap your fingers and it appears on you?
>>44654096
Not actually true. There was an FAQ about particularly this.
>>44653916
His DM here. I was using Donjon's random encounters until very recently to make encounters 2-3 times their level. Killed one of them twice, almost put SwashKinetiMonk into a CHA coma, had a few other near misses. We're having a ball but I'm going to start making my own combat encounters from now on.
>>44654136
Glad to hear it's fun, at least.
>>44654096
No he doesn't, same reason dex damage doesn't turn off TWF.
>>44654129
Source?
>>44654069
>>44654067
My GM has gone whole hog with all PoW stuff, so it's all allowed.
Which one should I go for, then, Elric?
Soul Hunter Stalker focusing on DEX with Killer's Implements
or
Brutal Slayer Stalker?
They'd both wear normal clothes and have no weapons or shields. They both fit thematically just fine.
Which one do YOU think fits better, here?
>>44654126
called from 3.5e
it is pretty bitching
CALLED
Price: +2,000 gp
Property: Armor or shield
Caster Level: 9th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) conjuration
Activation: Standard (command)
At first glance, this armor or shield looks like any other item of its kind. Closer inspection reveals a small image of a beckoning hand
inscribed on its surface. Provided that you and your called armor or shield are on the same plane, you can call it to you by speaking the proper command word, regardless of the intervening
distance. If you aren’t wearing armor at the time, a suit of called armor appears on your body, as though you had donned it in the normal fashion. If you are wearing other
armor when you speak the command word, the called armor appears in your space or in an adjacent space you designate
that is capable of holding it. A called shield appears on the proper arm if you are not already using another shield when you call it, or in your space or a designated adjacent space if you are.
If any other creature has worn your called armor or shield since you last wore it, you can no longer call it until you wear it again.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and
Armor, teleport.
Cost to Create: 1,000 gp, 80 XP, 2 days.
>>44654069
Because you didn't provide enough information to accurately advise you on your situation. Your question was "how do I get WIS to AC?" Not "I have stats X,Y,Z and access to [insert books here] how do I build an unarmed/Unarmored warrior?"
>>44654152
They're exploring a dungeon the size of Rhode Island where all the walls are sandwiching a layer of flowing blightburn dust. What's not to love?
>>44654170
Mechanically, Brutal Slayer is a better fit. Thematically, its up to you. It's your character so its up to you. Either one will work fine.
>>44653950
bampu
>>44654186
I'm sorry, that's my bad.
I don't really know what the fuck I'm doing, as evident.
>>44654229
Okay. It'll take me a while to decide which one of the archetypes I like more. Thanks so much for taking the time out to guide me, here.
>>44653950
>>44654277
Just to be clear, by "non-core" do you mean stuff from the companion books and campaign settings, stuff from outside of the core rulebook, or 3pp material?
For the first two you want Archives of Nethys, for the second one it's split between Archives and d20pfsrd.
>>44654319
Happy to help. It's what I do.
>>44653330
Eldritch Guardian
>>44654327
I was looking for PDF collection unfortunately, not a lookup site. The GM prefers that player options be within the house, as he usually uses his books for statting monsters due the rule of no computers at the table.
And the first assumption was correct; in house we have Core, APG, both Ultimates, and then the GM guide, and are in the midst of acquiring a Bestiary mostly so that people will stop having to reprint monster stats.
I appreciate your suggestions however
>>44654523
Follow the link in the pastebin and go to the mega link. That will have almost everything you need.
>>44653950
The mega link in the OP should have most stuff
Doing my first ever gestalt character for a oneshot tomorrow.
I'm set on Druid/Witch. Don't try to change my mind, I've thought it through.
The question I have, here, is:
How fucked would I be if my Wisdom was 16 for the Druid half? Is that too low for level 3?
My Intelligence would be 18, so the Witch half is fine. I'm allowed one, non-stat boosting magic item, and so I've chosen a bag of holding.
Playing a Human.
>>44654553
>>44654547
Oh, I am fumbling my words- I had meant to say a PDF compilation of feats and such without being attached to setting books. Perhaps What I am looking for does not exist quite yet?
>>44654728
Yeah, it's easiest to use d20pfsrd or archives of nethys for that.
>>44654744
thank you very much for your time.
