Formerly /hbg/ - or Homebrew General.
Last Thread: >>44487019
A thread dedicated to discussion and feedback of games and homebrews made by /tg/ regarding anything from minor elements to entire systems, as well as inviting people to playtest your games online.
Try to keep discussion as civilized as possible, avoid non-constructive criticism, and try not to drop your entire PDF unless you're asking for specifics, it's near completion or you're asked to.
>Thread Topic:
What are your general thoughts on implementing set classes for players, and what's your approach when dealing with them?
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good luck anons
>>44565203
>>44554378
Cross posting some unanswered questions from last thread
Also to clarify, it's +1d4 to attack or +1 damage for each bullet.
>>44574722
I like your combat idea just because mixing dice is a mechanic i'm fond of for some reason and it doesn't seem very hard to follow
your grid, on the other hand, is a bit too complicated for my taste
Is there anything for CCG design?
>>44575105
I'd use it, depending on how combat is handled. I usually like light out of combat, in-depth in combat. But that's just me. All I'm saying is there's probably a market assuming you have supplements to expand it a al GURPS. That's honestly the best part about it.
Why should I spend countless hours making and refining my game when I'll never be able to make money from it and do it as a career?
Aside from having a personal system that is viewed to have no flaws
>>44575434
Maybe damage could be something like "stages" like you have 3-4 "stages" each with penalties, and for every successful hit you move a stage, and if you get over twice toughness they move 2? Players can choose to go down early to avoid being killed, because it kind of sucks to have your guy go down from a lucky swing.
Removing dodge from ranged attacks seems kind of OP, you can make it easier on yourself by maybe requiring them to be able to move or something? So it's less modifiers for attack rolls and an immobile target is a sitting duck.
>>44574950
Well I know I need to do grid based to do a proper Tactics game. Unless anyone knows how to do Tactical Combat without a proper field to work off of. I like grid based in general because it makes it easy to know exactly who is where, where different objects are in relation to each other and the like. Helps prevent "no I was standing by the door" or "I wouldn't have walked over that trap".
>>44573474
>What are your general thoughts on implementing set classes for players?
It depends on how freeform/restricted you want the game to be. 3.5 and 4e DND both have set classes but the differences between the spell/combat systems meant a world of difference in supporting character concepts vs supporting game balance.
Personally I prefer strictly defined classes. I like class skill trees in the style of FFG Star Wars, or classes that can branch into different archetypes (think 4e but done better). Meanwhile I hate multiclassing with a passion. It only seems to encourage asshole minmaxers and create headaches for the DMs trying to rein them in.
Gonna try to get in on the ground floor of this one --
Posting a repeat invitation from the last thread for anyone that wants to try out a really really big, complete system. I'll list the main points.
>www.thelastbook.us
>Downloads section
>Current version is 0.3, but 0.4 is coming relatively soon
>PDF is ~250 pages
>There are some premade character packs also on the dev blog
>There are some structured playtests also on the dev blog
>System is rules-heavy, only crunch (though there is some fluff injected to exhibit how the crunch works)
>System is high game, moderate simulation, low narrative
Currently working on expanding mundane combat. Essentially, I was unhappy with the idea that a player buys Basic Combat Proficiency, buys Advanced Combat Proficiency, buys some Advanced Maneuvers, masters them, and then they are done. I wanted players who wanted to focus on mundane combat to go deeper, so I'm working on Paragon Maneuvers and Elite Maneuvers.
>Paragon Maneuvers
These work by isolating a group of five similar, or themed, Advanced Maneuvers in each Expertise, and providing ~3 Paragon Maneuvers that become accessible once a character has all five prerequisites and masters them fully. This, in total, is a Paragon Style, and there are three styles per Expertise.
>Elite Maneuvers
Same sort of non-CAP progression as above, but the prerequisite for these are that the character can use every single Advanced Maneuver in an Expertise (all 25). Then, they are provided with a few 25 CAP Elite Maneuvers that are kind of a, insane, cinematic, penultimate display of the Expertise.
Here is a link to what will be the Mundane Combat Expansion doc... Keep in mind that the system as a whole is still under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H5o0BV3z0QDTAnBBMZ9cS9EN3jRJlyM4jwc26IeUovY/edit?usp=sharing
Will respond to thread topic tomorrow, too tired now.
>>44575671
IMO what you wrote after "Aside from" is the only thing that matters. I'd venture to say that most of us just genuinely enjoy designing games, even if only our friends play them.
>>44576377
Thing is I'm an unemployed/unemployable NEET
So, aside from
Firearms
Melee
Endurance
Agility/Athletics
Knowledge
What other skill are "needed" for a squad tactics game? I was thinking something like reflexes and leadership, but one could fall under agility and the other could be a whole-squad stat. Is it worth it to split them?
>>44575671
Mostly so I can have the game I've always wanted to play.
If someone came out with it RIGHT NOW I'd drop what I was doing and buy it.
>>44576533
I think Reflexes could certainly fall under Agility. There is an argument that Leadership could fall under the purview of Knowledge.
What about Explosives? I feel like that skill set could be different enough from Firearms and Melee for it to be its own thing. That also creates an avenue for someone to create an "explosives expert" which, with little investigation, sounds cool off the cuff.
>>44576675
Fuck, I always forget explosives! Thank you you beautiful person you.
>>44576706
No prob. My brain also leapt to a "breaching" sort of skill set, but I feel that sits pretty comfortably within Knowledge... Like knowing how to enter a room, where the targets will likely be, how to assess and locate the best cover quickly, etc.
Do you have anything online yet that I could look at? I love the idea of a squad based tactics game.
Also, some real life research for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
>>44576533
>>44576789
Maybe you could do Knowledge for like abstract things that you know (potential for Leadership to be here) and then have another skill called Tactics for procedural knowledge like breaching, positioning, etc.
I need a very fast and simple but still interesting way to have fleets of spaceships fight.
Got our first batch of rulebooks printed! Tomorrow's our first session with this edition. My buddy is writing a quick one-shot adventure for it.
>>44576916
>>44576789
>Knowledge and Tactics
That's a good idea, I'm not sure what I'd use Tactics for, maybe reflex and things like that?
And the links I posted earlier are all I have online atm, honestly I just got back to the system the other day after a while hiatus to work on All Around the Fireside. I have a sample weapon chart, and a WIP character sheet and a sample enemy (Type Z-9 Lether-gen Infectee) but those are all one actual paper.
>>44577344
Nice, I am just getting into contact with a few friends and we are debating on digital or print.
So what do you guys use to format and publish the rules you write?
Scribus or something else?
What is your preferred workflow?
>>44574993
What are you planning to do?
with a TTRPG, it's ok if only one gaming group is playing your homebrew, good luck distributing a fucking cardgame. Even a deck-building game is kindof doable, but a CCG? how many people are ever going to play? 2?
>>44578749
Some of us are hoping to make it big in the world of tabletop gaming.
>>44578831
Alright, are you, in addition to being a game designer, a graphic designer. You're gonna need one of those if you plan on selling a CCG.
>>44578862
Me, personally? No. But I'm working on a wargame, and my artist is putting out quality shit, as you can see.
Link to my play by postpseudoHex based wargame
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MaLl3OHk77DxtQm476hxkKJm_Y2P5sY-hvjvsI_G2xkpsuedo only because hex is not necessary, any discreet node location map will work
Mechanic Inspiration : MTG and RPS101
Inspired By: Erfworld
The last part i didn't write, was heavy DM involvement through Player surveys, and during in game spell development
>>44578881
That is pretty great. Color me, as an artist, impressed. But by graphic designer, I meant someone who can manage card layouts and all of the design other than the card art. These are things that any CCG needs to have if it wants to stand out from the crowd. The cards need to look good beyond having good artwork and you need a hell of a printer.
When it comes to card games and being successful, looking good is as important to sales as the rules are.
>>44578940
Interestingly enough, I'm actually planning on publishing a lot of the material for my game in card format(taking a page out of X-Wing's book) but also making the cards important to the wargame, not just ways to list upgrades.
What works best for a science-fantasy (admittedly Star Wars-esque) game:
D100 or Roll and Keep
D100 allows for more precise stats, but R+K makes results less random. Not sure what would feel better in a space fantasy setting as I haven't played R+K myself.
Fishing for opinions on an idea I've just had
So in this game, we have all sorts of cards; a Commander for your force, special pilots for your mechs, Rigs(basically loadouts) for those same mechs, various artillery batteries, minefields, and infantry forces that can hang out in their trench and then leave later.
I've been thinking this whole time in terms of doing it the same as X-Wing, where you have all your cards face up and your opponent can see exactly what he's up against at a glance, But what if you could keep your cards face down until they became relevant to the game. Fluffwise, your opponent won't necessarily know who your commander is until he recognizes their signature strategy, and he wouldn't know who your mecha pilots are until their unique abilities/tactics start showing through, and you won't know what's in the enemy artillery battery until they fire.
So does being able to keep this all secret and slowly having to figure out what list the enemy's running over the course of the game seem like a neat dynamic to you?
(If I do this, the Chivalrous Knightly faction will have a commander who makes you play with all your cards face up in exchange for certain advantages.)
>>44578940
>>44574993
I'm working on a hybrid TTRPG/CCG and i've been teaching myself how to use InDesign and Photoshop with youtube tutorials to get over the graphic designer hump. I feel like my messy prototypes will work well enough as a design doc if I ever try to go professional.
>>44579347
is it solely cards or is there a battlefield or board or minis or something as well?
>>44579496
There is a battlefield with miniatures, but a lot of stuff, referred to as Support choices, affects the battlefield from offsite, primarily your Commander and any Artillery you decide to take.
What are some systems with good examples of gunplay? I hear gurps is supposed to have good gunplay but I'm not really sure which splat to flip through.
>>44579512
Then I like your idea, but i feel like those face-down cards would need to be fairly generic in their effects in order to not give them away immediately? It would be fun to play a reconnaissance-based faction though to see the opponent's face-downs.
>>44579601
The idea is that they'll flip face up the moment you use them. Like, you fire a battery of rifled muzzleloaders, your opponent now knows you have at least three RMLs, but he's wondering what those other two artillery pieces you have cards for are.
The idea of recon as a unique ability is a good one, and I'll probably give it to Nzemya, the nation of Communist Romani Zulus in power armor.
>>44579621
So your making Stratego?
>>44579641
While I've never heard of Stratego before, it does seem like the creators were thinking along the same lines is me. But turn it into a company scale dieselpunk wargame with mecha, rather than a generic game of capture the flag.
>>44579658
>never heard of Stratego
what your the gameplay goal? utter opponent destruction?
>>44579586
I'm just gonna throw this idea at you because I've had it floating around for a while now and don't have a project to use it on.
So, for a tabletop RPG, you have a section of the book that's just sihlouettes for various common positions people will be found in(prone, crouching, standing at ready, standing at rest, sitting at a desk, etc.)
When you want to shoot a gun, you don't have modifiers to hit or to miss, but rather modifiers that affect how far off target your bullet will go; you combine this with a directional die like the Scatter Die used in Warhammer 40k, so you roll a scatter die and whatever die you're basing your system on, then adjust the number for all the relevant modifiers, and that's how far off your initial point of aim the bullet scatters. Distance from the target could be used as a modifier(long range doubles scatter, while close range cuts it in half, etc) and stuff like wind, bullet drop, and the coriolis effect(for long range shooting) could apply directional modifiers.
It sounds complex at first, but it seems like it might actually be a more intuitive system than most gunplay. Rather than abstract "hit" or "miss" you can figure out exactly where your bullet went, while cover is as easy to add as sliding a piece of paper over the bottom half of the silhouette to represent a waist high wall. Shooting at multiple targets, you could just have some sihlouettes on transparent projector sheets so they can be placed next to each other rather than one per page, and so on and so forth.
It's just an idea I've had sitting around for a while but haven't had a game to fit it; do with it what you will.
>>44579347
Sounds fun, works for bluffing certain strategies then swapping it out for the one you intended, and also works fluffwise. I say go for it. You should probably add a few rules on determining when to reveal your cards, I imagine it could be hard if each of them has multiple abilities.
It could also get problematic if you're aiming for tournaments to be viable, due to needing to inspect the lists for balance, as well as spectators and such.
>>44579696
Since it's trench warfare, you're trying to capture the enemy trench. Mecha aren't good at this because they have limited operational times before they run out of power/overheat, so infantry are still critical to capturing territory. Which means the most common means of victory will be moving as many infantry models as possible into the enemy trench to gain victory points. You rely on your mecha to support and escort the infantry.
>>44579715
I figure tournaments could solve it by having each player add up the other player's list after the game is over, or at least giving players the right to demand to see all the other player's cards.
>>44579723
you just belittled Stratego's capture the flag, and your gameplay is capture the point?
>>44579723
>Trench warfare with mechs
>>44579744
Saying "I have fluff instead of being generic" isn't belittlement, it's just that this is a wargame rather than a board game, and wargame players want more than an abstract battle. They tend to be at least as invested in the fluff as the rules.
>>44579754
Don't tell me you don't want a Art Deco Knight mech with rockets and a giant hammer facing down against an Egyptian sarcophagus armed for war with tesla coils and lightning cannons.
>>44579737
That would basically invalidate (don't know if that's the word I want) the commander idea you had for the chivalrous knight faction though, which would be a shame. Of course this problem only really matters for tournaments, in casual play it wouldn't really matter. You could put it in the back seat this early in development for now, but having a plan ready for when it comes up should be a good idea.
>>44579774
fluff makes mechanics more generic
abstract makes gameplay way more unique
if this is a quick setup game players will be just as if not less invested than in Statego
play Stratego against a competent opponent and report back
>Don't tell me you don't want a Art Deco Knight mech with rockets and a giant hammer facing down against an Egyptian sarcophagus armed for war with tesla coils and lightning cannons.
visual fluff is a crutch for hollow gameplay
>>44579774
>Don't tell me you don't want a Art Deco Knight mech with rockets and a giant hammer facing down against an Egyptian sarcophagus armed for war with tesla coils and lightning cannons.
I feel like the entire point of trench warfare is that you can't leave the trench without getting blown to shit. What's the point of digging a trench if an enemy mech can just fly over/dig under the no-man's land into your trench?
I have an iron age set in the ice age thing I am working on, going to run it on rollz.net soon. It will be centered on cold weather survival and exploration, run in GURPS. Still looking for one player so if anyone is interested they can join.
Wall of text incoming:
Before the world froze over and killed off most of the human population it was filled with thriving civilizations that were at the technological level of the early middle ages,
however most of the kingdoms and empires went extinct with the coming of winter, while the remnants of the old world huddled together and migrated to southern warmer lands, lead by aristocrats.
After many years of travel searching for habitable land in the cruel and frozen world that came to be they found a large crater that was always warm (there are underground geysiers at the place of the crater keeping it warm and fertile.)
and they settled there. As time went by their population grew and they proclaimed themselves the city-state of Propirgonia. As the climate grew more forgiving they ventured out into the world as explorers and colonists, finding a warm sea to the north,
great elk forests to the east and southeast and an unforgiving plain of ice that covered the whole south, making any travel southward difficult and deadly. The elk forests were inhabited by wildmen split into many small tribes the size of villages and they often
warred amongst eachother over land, family squabbles or tradition. The wildmen knew not of agriculture until the arrival of the Propirgonians who carried it from the old world, and soon agriculture spread across the continent. Beyond the great icy waste of the south
to the southwest was a large tribe of people in the middle of nowhere called Karstzeme. The people were goatfarmers and tended to livestock while they lived off of the geysiers in the area using them for heat and working the fertile land around them.
(1/?
>>44579847
to the far southeast was a immensley large tribe of slit-eyed people called Oristeri who used mammoths as livestock and as beasts of war. They cannot conquer the north due to the great track of ice between them (their mammoths would starve) so they simply trade mammoth
pelts at extortionate prices. The Propirgonians spread across the shores of the warm sea working the land next to it which was rich, and soon their city state grew into a very large empire, that ranged from the western ice wastes to the eastern elk forests. When the
Propirgonian borders grew to the elk forests they started subjugating the wildmen that lived there, using them mostly as slaves and cutting down their trees en masse as they had land that was favorable enough for agriculture. Many wildmen were also used as mercenaries
or slave warriors as they were great in number and their men willing to fight. Once the colonies in the east grew too large to control from the Capital they delegated the work to a dictator named Perequs. Perequs was a general that conquered most of the elk forests under Propirgonian
domain and knew the land quite well. After the current emperor of Propirgonia died the dictator attempted to take the empire for himself with no bloodline heir to claim the throne his, the defense of Propirgonia was left to the beurocracy. Perequs waged a bloody war attempting to take over
Propirgonia but failed, only siezing the eastern colonies and the eastern shoreline of the warm sea. A truce was signed and the second empire was born, dubbed Profilakia. In the aftermath of the imperial war one of the many traitor generals that was cast out into the wilderness to die by Propirgonia
managed to survive long enough to travel to the untamed elk forests where wildmen were still free of the subjugation of the empire. This general formed a band of adventurers and educated them in Propirgonian tactics which were far superior to their undisciplined ways. (cont)
>>44579826
>What's the point of digging a trench if an enemy mech can just fly over/dig under the no-man's land into your trench?
...these aren't anime mechs. They're about four meters tall and fairly slow. They essentially replace tanks in this world, but I chose them for coolness factor and because they provide for more interesting visuals.
>>44579822
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0BwBWo5FzN-KvfmdER2RVRnlpR0l4cjhjdGF4OEhiQ0NibU9Oa1JEUVFhVnhrZ2YySDJHRTQ
Take a gander at my rules and see if you still think they'll be hollow. If so, please point out where they fall short, because I know there's plenty of issues.
But I'm not really concerned with comparing my game to Stratego. They share some elements, but if someone wants to play Stratego, they'll just play Stratego. The two games have very different audiences.
>>44579871
>>44579871
and started subjugating the wildmen tribes,
harshly punishing internal squabbles over tradition or culture that came from the newly conquered tribes, preaching unification on an ethnic basis. Some tribes were happy with this while many were discontent, but he formed a professional army to help keep the tribal confederation from falling apart. Within nine years
his great tribe of Deratairish became a force to be reckoned with, greatly outnumbering the northen empires in sheer manpower. The tribal confederation has proved to be a great thorn in the backside of Profilakia, often sending armies to aid tribes that the eastern empire is trying to conquer, thus slowing down their growth.
Many times it served as an accidental ally to the western Propirgonian empire who still have a strong rivalry with Profilakia.
Technology has degenerated somewhat from the old age, and now the technology of the early iron age is the norm. Reincarnationism is the dominant religion of the land, but it slightly differs from culture to culture. With no strict set of laws reinforcing religion and with no heads to lead it it is not as influential as the abrahamic
religions were, this is however also a negative thing since the positive effects of the coming of christianity/judaism/zoroastrianism/islam are not present, ie; there is no force upholding virtues such as kindness at a moral level or even 'thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill' and the like. Kindness is extended to immediate family and close friends in this setting, and
it is quite uncommon from strangers, and it is viewed as a debt to be payed, but it is also valued far more and materially even.
map related. the bright blue stuff is ice, the northern blue stuff is the warm sea.
what do you think /tg/?
>>44579873
I took a gander
At best i can say it is undeveloped and haphazard, especially the core gameplay unique to your game
The way its worded Units move EXACTLY their move distance, no more no less, when they can by available movement order card (instant turn off)
If the cards available in an order deck are in the "orders document", are consumable, and recycled each turn, I have warning lights going off for "CHANCE BASED ORDERS"
It looks like a Chance based Escort Quest, but will take far longer to learn, than to play an entire game your "target" already knows how to play (Quick indoc is important), and will take far longer to play than will be fun due to chance based mechanics (Risk, Monopoly, etc)
There are plenty of references to undeveloped things(no big deal, i know its a work in progress)
I don't know if players move their own infantry, and when infantry move (along with mechs?)
I don't know where scoring tables are
To be honest I'm having trouble actually following turn structure's written connection to the orders deck and d12
Generally with a escort quest, You can effectively win by:
allowing the opponent to get a number of units into your trench, without getting any into theirs
Using your inherent field advantage, destroy all but a few of their units
Keep their isolated units unable to progress with crowd control (or deduct their points if able through capture of these units)
Walk your remaining units unattested to their trench for victory
tldr:
>resolves into progress quest with dice and dec randomization
wargames turn me off with their chance nonsense, your pseudo-wargame is no different
abstract and discreet state without constant randomization is always better
>>44580147
>>44580147
>Units move EXACTLY their move distance
Whoops, wording error, gotta fix that.
>On Order cards
It's nothing more than a way of planning your actions secretly from your opponent, like X-Wing's maneuver dials.
>I don't know where scoring tables are
Oh, those are a reference to something I eliminated a while back. I have comments enabled on all the documents; could you put a comment on where I mentioned them so I can get rid of that.
>wargames turn me off with their chance nonsense
Gonna have to discount your opinions in general, then, just because if you don't like wargames you probably won't like whatever wargame I finally end up with.
Thanks for the read through, but you obviously don't want what I'm making.
>>44580224
>Oh, those are a reference to something I eliminated a while back.
>eliminated scoring
>mentions scoring In how to win
>mentions scoring In this thread
Then how do you determine a winner?
>Gonna have to discount your opinions in general, then, just because if you don't like wargames...
dude I wrote this one
>>44578913
I don't like you giving handouts to the gods of chance, they don't need it
>>44580291
I got rid of scoring tables, which were a complicated way to get points, and just went for infantry scoring points.
>>44573474
I've been working on optional rules to add distinctiveness to the 10 Megacorportations in SR5 through what the players interact with the most: Their gear.
SR is basically a shopping simulator, so I figure that if the gear itself gives meta-information about the setting, it would help? It also gives some mechanical consistancy for the NPC'S gear.
It's a bit clunky right now, but I'll post it here for feedback, opinions and suggestions in case some of you are familiar with the system.
There's two sheets.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l7Vdne1mtu7pS-iyL2FTSGBLTRpNGJI5tdhc-gqS-xQ/edit?usp=sharing
>>44579774
>>44579822
Just wanted to point out that "Stratego With Mechs" exist. What Anon is saying, sir Trenchbreak, is that Stratego is OLD AS SHIT and that it survived the decenies through being an actually good game, and the visuals are simply a context on which to project the mechanics.
The common "modern" commercial iteration was piggybacking the same setting as "Risk" because it's easy marketing. The original game was setup in the animal kingdom and shit.
So far from what we can read is that you're essentially using a game system to promote a theme, rather than making a theme promote your system...
Tell me anon, have you ever heard of the term "Ameritrash"?
If not, you might want to research it? That's basically what Anon is being afraid of here >>44580147 & >>44580291
>>44577331
Any help? Really scratching my brain here, I tend to make things way too complex.
>>44580820
Thanks
I didn't really mean to hide by implication the re-skinning of boardgames, I thought it was common knowledge
Fuck, monopoly does it on a weekly basis
>>44578881
Have you figured out the infantry issue yet? I'll always be here, waiting.
>>44579700
>A million silhouette cards, the game
Only works for human, too. I think just using a normal standing silhouette would work just fine and letting a person' imagination do the rest.
Or use a phone app and 3D models.
>>44580839
Just play X-Wing
>>44581019
X wing is tactical, I'm trying to develop a grand strategy game.
>>44581031
...and we were supposed to know that how?
>>44581031
From your initial post I thought you wanted a mechanic to roll out fkeet battles in a few minutes not a whole game.
>>44581050
I thought it was understood, from "Fleets of spaceships have fast simple fight"
X-Wing has fighter squadrons, not fleets. Essentially, I want some way to have star destroyer and other capital ships in fleets fight it out, with the game being more about where you move your fleets and such than the battles themselves, without it being "you have 29 ships, he has 30, he wins" And also not star wars.
Sorry for the lack of clarity.
>>44581081
Yes exactly. The game is about maneuvering to protect your stuff and take the opponents, with fleet battles being less common, and hard to make decisive (although if you go all out, you may reap big rewards but with a big risk alongside).
Also, since actions could be anything from catching a couple of cruisers trying to nail one of your colonies to slugging it out over the enemy homeworld with your battlefleets, ideally it would be able to handle both somehow.
I'm in the very early planning stages here, so I don't have much worked out yet, and I'm trying to avoid my typical overcomplexity.
>>44581031
Ever played Eclipse?
It's a better, streamlined, boardgame version of Master Of Orion
>>44581105
Just play Armada
>>44581106
Nope
>>44581147
Never heard of it. Who publishes it?
>>44580845
Infantry now get replaced if they die or score.
>>44581160
Fantasy Flight
>>44580147
>wargames turn me off with their chance nonsense, your pseudo-wargame is no different
I disagree with your aggressive method of voicing your opinion about games of random chance and how abstract and discreet is better. Harsh words and dismissive statements are hardly the only ways to recommend better mechanics.
>>44581031
Would you mind giving a few examples of a grand strategy game to look at for inspiration and ideas?
>>44581171
Can they still do jack shit against mechs, making everyone wonder why anyone bothers with them in the first place?
Your core issue, which you've just blustered past so far, is that infantry have no reason to exist.
The game is about getting infantry to the enemy trench, so they can fight the enemy infantry I guess. But why bother, because the enemy infantry can't do anything to the mechs. And if you do capture the trench...what do the infantry do, wait to get raped to death by enemy mechs?
>>44581106
>>44581160
You should. It was rated #1 game on BoardGameGeeks for quite a while.
>>44581202
Diplomacy kinda fits, although this game is less about the actual diplomacy part. I know there are others but I'm beat and can't think of any atm.
>>44581105
I think it's difficult if not impossible to handle both battle scales in detail.
That said, most space wargames are just sea wargames in space, so you might want to start there. Ganesha games has a simple ruleset for ship combat, iirc galleys and gallons.
>>44581237
>I think it's difficult if not impossible to handle both battle scales in detail.
Yes it is pretty difficult. Especially if you also take space stations and such into account. Ah well, I'll keep thinking about it.
>>44581237
One method would be to divide them into different mini games. Have one part of the game be solely about fleet battle management, representing the battles in the frontlines as damaged ships retreat and new ships are moved into position, while the other represents the political aspect, trading territories when certain ships are defeated, or certain goals accomplished. The fluff justification could be something like a "neverending fleet battle that continues at length, with reinforcements shuffling in to replace defeated troops, battle lines shifting every minute, and all the while political intrigue happens in the background".
Basically like playing Star Wars: Armada at the same time as TI3, and having both games influence each other somehow.
A simpler method would of course be to focus on one aspect and simplify the other. Something like using battle cards that have fluff in addition to its effects to simulate how the fleet battles go down, or have deckbuilding representing the political aspect.
What do you think of the idea of using 3 dice to determine action resolution?
skill+attribute+tool quality ranging from a coin to a d12
>>44581460
I'd be surprised if that hadn't been done before. Without putting much thought into it, it looks fun.
If I am gonna go for fudge ( opposed rolls and against DC ), how should I handle character ability scores ( was thinking of {-4,4} range ), or should I just sweep them under a rug and use something else?
>>44581931
Forgot to add: skills are static values.
I had idea of doing skill rolls as 4dF+skill+1/2 attribute, but not so sure. It might end up with bit too little variance.
Good morning, replying to keep it alive and bumped.
>Classes in TTRPGs
Personally, I don't like them. I feel like they provide for an elegance in game design, but overall make a game less fun than it could be. There's also an argument for the simplicity, that having classes simplifies the process of character creation and gameplay - My opinion is they certainly do simplify things, but that simplicity can be sacrificed for fun. There's also a question of rules saturation. I think classes are fine in games that aim to be rules-light.
In TLB, I sort of use a hybrid. Characters are built using points from the ground up, but there are several "packages" that a player can purchase and inject into their character. Take Templar for example, a package which costs somewhere around 100 CAP in total (if the character buys some Prayers with it). That's 1/5 of the total points available to build a character, so they still have points for Attributes, Combat, et al. A lot of my players will identify themselves this way ("Oh, I'm a Templar"), but one Templar can be, and usually will be, radically different from another,
All in all, I prefer no classes to classes, but if implemented carefully, neither is a better option than the other.
What are some good basic rules for designing war games? Is a roll under system generally preferable to a roll over one?
>>44582599
>What are some good basic rules for designing war games?
Depends on the kind of game.
>Is a roll under system generally preferable to a roll over one?
Imo it is just important to keep it consistent.
Going for the higher numbers could lead to a bit of book keeping and math depending on what you do with the rolls though.
>>44578561
So you guys are not interested in talking about publishing your rules I take it?
>>44582657
Not too many of us have the know how to start publishing anything unfortunately, especially since many projects are still in development. Drop a link or two if you have anything, we could add it to the OP or something.
>>44582657
I would discuss it, but I have nothing to do with the graphic design of my PDF. A guy in my group does it, and I think he uses Adobe InDesign or something like that.
>>44582629
>Imo it is just important to keep it consistent.
Yeah, that's a lot the problem so far, I want to keep it consist but what works for some works better for other.
right now I'm going for the roll under but high as possible system which seems to work well for opposing rolls.
What do you guys think about attribute systems? I feel like 4-5 stats is optimal. More than that is really hard to balance powerwise and it is really hard to make all stats interesting. Like I have no idea how to make endurance/constitution fun.
>>44582855
>Like I have no idea how to make endurance/constitution fun
Just fold it into strength con into a single score. It's a waste of a stats if con just does hit point and endurance checks and hitters are going to need the extra hp any way.
What do you guys think about skirmish wargaming? Do you see it as tactical and with a lot of depth?
I've seen that some games have huge amount of tactical possibilities, like Infinity for example. And others which are based around combos (for example Warmahordes), that have a lot of tacticallity in that aspect but not really in other stuff.
Do you think fantasy/medieval/ancient wargames, with their focus on melee, can be made really tacticaL?
What about stuff like Mordheim, but with a tactical edge?
>>44582629
The problem is that sometimes it's nice to have a roll under and a roll over, or roll high mechanic at the same time.
Imagine Warhammer for example, it has a roll high in attack-type stuff, and roll under in attribute checks. If they didn't have the roll under, they'd have to have a standard 'difficulty class' for stuff. I guess it could work though
>>44582937
I'd say medieval era stuff is doable. If you can't rely on ranged weapons to cover large areas, you can go the opposite and make cramped spaces, with plenty of hiding spots. Focus on terrain and being able to affect them. The key thing though is to either discourage 1-on-1 battles in order for there to be less 'trade hits until one dies' type duels, or make them more interesting, so that 1-on-1 fights are just as tactical as the rest of the game.
>>44578405
I say go with both but I've had more success with print.
>>44582855
I use six attribute, 3 physical (Strength, Agility, Stamina) and 3 mental (Intelligence, Willpower, Awareness).
In terms of making them interesting, I just try to make sure they all do something unique at every level of the game. For my project, Attributes are actually the skeleton Parent-Child system for the entire game - You can trace literally everything in the game back to an Attribute eventually.
Now, to balance, I go to ambiguous levels and investigate what each attribute does.
Derived Attributes and resources - Intelligence governs learning rate (important in a point build system), Willpower governs a character's favor with his or her god, but even if they don't have any priestly abilities, it still partially governs how easily they are stunned or rendered unconscious.
A level deeper, into combat - Strength governs any weapon that the character can swing, and how much damage they deal with any weapon whatsoever. It can also determine how well they block with a shield or weapon. Agility governs any weapon that the character thrusts, and it also determines how well they can parry and evade. Awareness determines how well a character shoots a bow an arrow.
Going sideways a level, I have packages, or sort-of-classes - Willpower largely governs Priestcraft, Intelligence largely governs Alchemy, Stamina largely governs Conqueror (the idea being that the high Stamina, the more resolve with which to inspire allies).
At the end of the day, I think just being able to trace back in a parent-child system ensures that all the attributes are robust.
>>44582855
The optimal number of stats is however many the system you are envisioning requires. You could use the classic six-spread if that's what your game demands. You could use more unusual stats if your game requires tracking something else. For a good example of the latter, the first to spring to mind (since I looked at it recently) would be Don't Rest Your Head. You won't find Strength nor Wisdom in it because the mechanics do not require metrics for such concepts.
>>44583084
But how can you make melee tactical?
Some choices like ways of attacking and defending could be a way to do it...
Like, fast attacks, strong attacks, defensive, etc, with different bonuses to different throws
>>44583328
>But how can you make melee tactical?
If you allow for a bit of cinematic combat versus strictly simulation, it opens up a lot of options. Knockbacks, Knockups (fall damage), strikes to body locations with different effects for each, strikes that include movement (charges, rushes, etc), defensive maneuvers, different types of damage that all produce different effects (slash, pierce, impact, etc.), multiple attacks (within a period of time that typically only one attack would be allowed, strikes that hit multiple targets (think of a spear sweep), et al.
>>44583328
Those are a few. Reading the opponent's attacks, defending yourself blow for blow, take a dangerous swing that could leave you exposed, there's plenty of minor things during a melee battle that could be simulated to make it interesting. You could also have melee move you around, travel several spaces as the momentum from attacking or defending pushes their back to the wall, limiting their movement further. Or maybe they have a misstep and fall down the stairs, only to be greeted atleast two other opponents at the bottom. Basically take whatever choreography you found interesting in movies, and try to get them onto the table. This is in addition to whatever tactics you employ in positioning your troops or placing terrain obstacles too.
You could probably read up on modern melee-ish sports for further ideas. Kendo, fencing for starters, then the hand to hand martial arts might have something.
>>44583487
This guy gets it.
>>44583328
>>44583487
My system has got an entire library of "Advanced Maneuvers" for melee combat. Pic related.
So, to outline the tactics involved in this particular selection, I'll go through it using laymen's terms.
>5 CAP
This is a point build system, so a character spends 5 CAP to learn the maneuver and be able to use it
>Parent
A character can either Swing to use this attack (Swing is governed by Strength) or Throw to use the attack (Throw is governed by either Strength or Agility, which is chosen at character creation)
>Fatigue Cost
This is a pool that is exhausted by using Advanced Maneuvers like pic attached. Character expends 2 to use this particular move
>Lapse
Used to exhibit how wide a character leaves himself/herself by using this maneuver. This number equals the penalty to defenses until his/her next round.
>Damage
Some maneuvers add to the damage of the strike, this one adds 4
>Speed reduction
Main idea of this maneuver is to daze the shit out of an enemy so they start moving slower in combat, therefore, -1 Speed for every 10 damage inflicted
>Damage inflicted vs. damage dealt
Damage inflicted is the measure of damage after the victim's armor reduces it. Dealt is how much damage came out of the strike. This maneuver requires that 10 damage is inflicted (after armor) to reduce speed.
Within the game, this is a hafted weapon maneuver. There are 24 more. Hafted is one expertise, and there 9 more of those, so all in all, there is a total library of 250 Advanced Maneuvers that span across daggers, swords, hafted, long weapons, shields, ranged, etc.
My opinion is that there are plenty of avenues to build tactics into melee combat.
>>44583686
Another example with some similar characteristics.
>>44582931
I think this is great solution for lighter games, but I'm aiming for something more realistic. It is prolly stupid to try make something realistic and at the same time try to balance it super tight but that is my goal
>>44583263
Yes, but unless you are doing something really focused I think it is pretty hard to find optimal balance between detailed representation of everything you might need and choking players with shitload of stats.
>>44583729
>>44583686
I really need to read up on this again the next time my group wants some nice crunchy combat, I keep forgetting how much depth the entire system has.
>>44583833
Yeh, some people find the depth overwhelming, but we love it. I've found that once you realize that everyone is functioning on the same system (GM and players) and that the entire system is just a ladder that leads to Attributes, it becomes less complicated.
>>44583828
True, but if a system has a shitload of stats confounding the players it has been designed wrong. A massive statblock is not, as I put it, what a system requires.
In a 1v1 card game, if Player A is bidding their units against Player B, but Player A only gets to see roughly half of Player B's forces when deciding what to bid, is that fair? Does it add a good layer of strategy since Player A does get to see some of the opposing forces?
>>44584192
I think if both players are bidding only for part of their force, and both see only a part of the opponent's force, then that's okay. For both sides there's then a known and unknown factor on the field.
>>44584192
I think it depends on what info that Player A can see, but in general partially obfuscated information is always an easy method of introducing bluffing and prediction into the mix, either by tricking the opponent using what they know about you, or by predicting their actions by using what you know about them.
Well, in the example I posted, Player A has a fixed group of forces that are stronger than most, if not all, of what Player B has, and Player A would be the only player with cards that do something when played (think Instants or Sorceries from Mtg) while Player B has to rely on their forces that do something when they enter play or are revealed.
I just realized how convoluted this sounds out of context.
>>44584304
Derp, this was meant for
>>44584239
A quick runner up of the basic damage system without going into details:
>Damage is calculated by a damage roll
>The resulting number then is marked in this damage track in the correspondent slot
>Light wounds give a /
>Severe wounds give an X
>Filled dots beneath the slot mean armor, which needs to be broken in that particular spot before being able to actually deal damage
>Your Vigor stat determines the amount of severe wounds you can endure before dying
it's a pretty simple thing that doesn't require that much bookkeeping and I love it, but I can't wrap my head around how I can do the damage rolls correctly because each approach brings a different issue
The number of maximum slots isn't final if you have any ideas that would require a bigger or smaller damage track
>>44583469
>>44583487
Those are great for skirmish games. I'd rather not have too many counters or hitpoints, so effects would have to depend on movement, a few counters and decisions with almost immediate consequences.
>>44583686
I love this, but it's too complex for a wargame with 15-20 miniatures per side.
Do you have a link to your system?
>>44584602
I have no idea how this is supposed to work
>>44574722
So, quick question.
Needing a 3 per success on d4's + 1d(4-12) seems VERY likely to get a lot of successes.
I want them to mean something, and presently there is only an average of 2 DR. Should I move to 4 per success, making a shot harder to land? Maybe 3's needed for Melee? Or should I find a way to increase the average DR?
>>44584908
you get hit, you get a number and you mark it on that number's slot with /s until you start stacking up on Xs and dying
i.e. you get an 8, you mark the slot 8 with a /
next attack you get damaged for 9 but the attack deals damage in 3 slots, therefore 8 is now an X, and you have 9 and 10 marked with /s
if you reach the maximum number of Xs you can endure, you're fatally wounded and will die unless someone helps you out before your time runs out
the issue is how you get that number without everything going to shit
>>44584958
Or I suppose, I could have some kind of Minimum Successes required? But that feels weird with the Attacker Oriented system I have now.
>>44584683
Yep, there's an official post somewhere up above but...
>www.thelastbook.us/downloads
It's also in the project spreadsheet in OP.
Let me ponder about some interesting melee combat in a mini wargame format and get back to you.
>>44582693
>>44582697
I just used Scribus once, but wasn't really all that happy with it. It's been a few years though.
>>44585211
Nice, I'll be waiting for that then.
I'll check out your system too
So I've been working a lot on a magic system lately and been having a nightmare about how to balance spells per day or mana points or whatever and then I thought.
Why even worry about that? Why not just hack the system to make it a no mana system?
Make all spells very low powered, with any attempts at empowering them requiring time, physical resources, or a risky roll that can corrupt the caster or cause magical backlash in some way. Magical spells in combat are similarly balanced to attacks and out of combat their effects are limited and specific. Things like Harry Potter style charm magic, or prestidigitation-like effects to a greater degree.
How would people feel about this? Would you think its possible and would you think it would be interesting/well made enough to want to play as a Wizard or caster in this potential ruleset?
Latest Hellsgate. I've tried hosting it online for the project list, but Googledocs keeps fucking with the formatting. Not a big deal, since its just a rough draft, but it does it in a way that makes it hard to read. Also, found a mistake that was fixed in the main document, but not big enough to justify exporting a new version of the PDF for; its refers to defense modifiers, which were changed to be attack modifiers now.
>>44584602
Model A, but instead of armor needing to be broken through, it downgrades the strike by a step, IE. The dirk would be hitting those low numbers, but if it keeps getting light wounds, it won't do anything? Make armor breaking something that special rules deal with (Armor Piercing attack: Breaks armor on that spot instead of dealing damage). You could also add armor pips to show armor health. They'd still have the same effect, downgrade damage by one, but hardier material would take several armor piercing attacks to break; a full suit of soft leather gives all spots 1 pip, while a breatplate of studded leather only cover the first 4 spots, but gets 2 pips each.
What advantages should different weapon types confer in a melee-based wargame?
What advantage should spears confer if combat is simultaneous? (also in a wargame)
>>44576505
The fact that you really should spend your time on more productive things is not really an argument for why people who have things going for them can't enjoy pissing away hours on whatever hobby they like.
>>44582657
Publishing and what tools to use is like the least interesting/most irrelevant part of the topic.
It's like talking about what kind of shelf you put your miniatures on in a WIP thread or what monitor you use in an art critique thread. Yes, it's tangentially on topic but not what anyone came there to talk about.
>>44587260
Spears are generally seen as giving two advantages in wargames, reach and speed. If placement is a thing, IE. different weapons can strike things as different physical ranges, then generally spears would give a longer range. If there is no distance or placement required (all melee is in base-to-base combat), then they would give a boost to when you strike before your opponent. There's also the support approach, where a model in contact with a friendly model, but not in contact with the enemy can boost combat in some way, either a bonus to the friendly model or an additional attack.
If you mean combat is simultaneous, with no initiative style system, you can either have them boosting, which means the model carrying the spear doesn't get a bonus if in combat, or give it a "defense" boost, since the model is striking before the other. And example of that would be a system like what Frostgrave uses, where combat is each model rolls off and the higher rolling wins. In that case, the idea would be the spear gives you plus to that roll, making stealing the initiative easier and winning.
Generally, it depends on how combat works. If you have a basic version to share, it'd be easier for me to make suggestions and pitch ideas to you.
>>4457347>>44582540
So this is a compendium of RPG design patterns where the author has basically sat down and listed what kind of mechanics are used in different rpgs, what rpgs use them and what the pros and cons or things to consider are.
It also has a "getting started" and "things to consider when making an rpg" sections.
It's not really about telling you what to do, but more about what things you need to keep in mind and what options other games have chosen. I think it is a really useful tool for anyone who wants to design an rpg. If nothing else, it can be really hard to know what other games have already used the mechanics you're considering and how they play, and this is a great help.
>>44587260
What scale and model count are we talking about?
I mean, if you're doing 6mm with huge blobs, then reach and stuff like that is really hard to make useful at that scale.
The most likely candidates are stuff like bonuses when defending against a charge, bonuses for extra ranks, bonuses against cavalry or monsters etc.
>>44587481
I beg to differ.
Thing is you can write the best rules possible, but if you suck at communicating the system you created to your audience you failed as much as a game designer, as if you made an unplayable game, since in practice, it become unplayable.
First and foremost that is down to how you write the rules themselves, sure, but formatting is important, especially for larger rulesets.
Visually structuring your rules is as important as logically structuring if you want to communicate them successfully.
>>44587512
At first I was thinking about a system which had "I strike, then you do", but eventually I discarded it in favor of a more LOTR-like system.
Both roll and whoever wins, can wound.
I would need an option for that.
Support is also not so viable, since it's a skirmish game.
>>44587661
A skirmish game, so that wouldn't work
>>44582657
I'm hoping that if I refine what I have enough that somebody will come to me to talk publishing. Perhaps I'm insane, but at least the thought powers my drive to revise and refine.
>>44588344
Everything you say is true, but you have to be dense not to realize that publishing and formatting is getting way ahead of most people in a thread where they are asking questions like "so what rules are good for spears?" And "Do people like rolling under more than over?"
You shouldn't be surprised that nobody bothered to reply to you the first time.
I can respect that you're brimming over with insight and knowledge you want to share, but make a pdf or something, don't sit around acting pouty when people aren't jumping you to bask in your wisdom.
>>44588391
Well you've kinda shot yourself in the foot as far as options for weapons with better reach go if combat is simultaneous but skirmish level.
Do something like the lord of the rings battle game where spear-armed guys can assist guys can fight enemy models in base contact with friendly models the spear armed guy is in base contact with, or let them get a free attack before regular combat starts maybe?
Hey, I'm the guy that playtested the tcg for someone a while back (I've also been working on an rpg, but I'm not ready to post). Anyone working on a tcg with finished cards I can look at?
>>44588504
Are you kidding me? Trying to start something? Or just projecting that hard?
I just asked if anybody here wanted to talk about it and if nobody does that's fine too. I can't ignore something like this >>44587481 though.
The whole reason to do this in the first place is to get the rules to the players.
And while some people are talking about dice rolls I don't think it's up to you to try and tell people what they can and can't talk about in here.
If nobody wants to talk about, because nobody is there yet the problems solves itself since there is nothing to talk about then.
>>44588391
I wouldn't be so fast to discard support as an option. LOTR is a skirmish game, but it uses spears for support. But yeah, if you are going with the rolling off system, look into spears giving a boost, to cover the idea that they generally outreach the opponent. Something like "If a model with a spear was engaged in combat this turn, it gains +X to its rolls". Or if you want to take reach into account, it could be that models are engaged when not in base-to-base combat, giving spears and things like that a certain distance for engagement, but models without reaching weapons get a penalty of some kind, like they can win combat, but instead of wounding, they move into base-to-base.
>>44588548
I know, but the truth is that I need to have combat options and choices after seeing who 'wins', moving the combat to one place or another, stunning the model, etc. And I think it's a cool thing
But I could change it back I guess... I just don't want to have any tables, because most players nowadays HATE fucking tables, and besides I don't wan't to make it too similar to Warhammer
>>44588695
I've thought about marking the 'distance' of the melee combat. Short reach would give knives an edge over all other weapons, average range would be bad for both knives and spears, and long range would give an advantage to spears and polearms.
But every combat should be marked and changed every time someone wins (if you win a combat you can choose to get closer to your opponent, to change the advantage), and sometimes I think it'll be a little bit too clunky.
The thing about support is that the game is about 10-15 minis per side, heavily objective based. I don't think there will be too much time for supporting or anything. It works well in LOTR because you're supposed to make formations. This is a fast and brutal skirmish.
I guess I could just change to "roll to hit, roll to save" in speed/initiative/agility order, instead of rolling off and then one saves.
>>44579899
Bahahah I'm not reading that, make an elevator pitch version or a hook to make it seem interesting and someone, hell, I, will give honest input.
>>44589156
See, I think that when going low model, objective heavy, you can get away with things that would be clunky like shifting positions and such, because placement plays a role. The combat range thing would be a mess if you were going for 20+ models a side, but when its less than that, it would add a dynamic to combat, making it more engaging. Simple is good, but you still need to take scale into account when determining if its too simple.
If you mean to have an average of 6 models per side, and all combat is one player rolling a 4+ followed up by a 5+, that's not going to keep people attention. Part of why I feel AoS is a bad system, its too simple.
The other part of it is, the best way to handle special circumstance comes down to how you present them. If you look at my skirmish game here >>44587216 combat isn't complex. You roll dice equal to a stat, you opponent rolls dice equal to a stat, and how much you win by determines damage. Its, like I said, how you present it. Movement and positioning is important, since the Backstab rule is there. Some weapons play complete different because of a simple rule or two. A model with a rune-etched sword goes from an rounded character to a melee powerhouse against demons with the inclusion of one rule. You can easily put it that base-to-base gives knives and other short weapon +X, standard melee has a range of 1", and spears have a 2". Make it so the winner can either strike to wound, or they take the advantage to make a 1" move, turning combat from just a slugfest to a tactical choice without adding overly complicated rules.
>>44589496
>If you mean to have an average of 6 models per side, and all combat is one player rolling a 4+ followed up by a 5+, that's not going to keep people attention.
Should say, this was just an example I pulled out of my ass to make my point.
I do think that giving the other player something to do to react to your attack is good. Either rolling off, or how Dark Age does it, where the opponent makes the to wound roll.
>>44589496
Yeah, AoS doesn't have any kind of tactics at all, it's just a rollfest. It's why I think Warmahordes is more like a CCG/TCG than a wargame. The turn sequence (classic IGOUGO) also gives this impression.
Infinity's reactions are really cool, but only work for sci fi or modern. An ancient/medieval game with that kind of reactions doesn't work that well. SOBH works pretty well, but it's too simplistic in my opinion.
The LOTR turn sequence is actually really good, even more so with the might-using interventions, that can create good choices.
About melee again, I think the combat range could be cool, but I'm afraid to implement it and watch as the game just becomes a sluggish marker simulator. But it could be a nice choice.
Right now I'm focusing on the effects of attacking, either to knock back/push the combat according to your facing, wound your enemy, stun him, etc.
I like your idea of damage depending on how much you win by, in fact I was using something similar. But then, since it's so low scale (and since it's campaign based), I started thinking about different weapons which could have lower armor penetration, but higher chance to cause deeper wounds, like hunting arrows.
Then I tried with 3 rolls, one to hit, one to save (the defender) and one to wound. The wound result would have few bonuses, and would determine wether the enemy is pushed back, lightly wounded, taken out of action, stunned or just killed in a gruesome manner, demoralizing allies around.
I'll check out your system, glad someone else is making a wargame around here, I don't usually get much responses
Alright, so after some toying with things, I have a Stat Line I like, and rather than get caught up with deriving sub-stats from that, I decided to give a Trait associated with that Stat every 2 ranks, at the owners choice.
MEFAKXT
Melee
Endurance
Firearms
Athletics
Knowledge
eXplosives
Tactics
At each interval of 2 Skill, gain a Trait for that Skill
Firearms:
AR
Suppress- Drop Weapon Die and Skill Dice, target all in a Square
Fire Control- Make Burst Rate 1, divide Max rate by difference, gain 1d4 to Attack
Pistol
Akimbo- Replace 1 skill Die with a second Weapon Die, add +1 to Burst Rate and double Max rate, add Lethality Bonus
Commando- Replace 1 Skill Die with Melee Weapon Die in Melee, add Melee Skill Dice
Shotgun
Breach- spend 1 ammo to unlock and open door, may be used in conjunction with an Attack
Slam Fire- Increase Max rate by 1, replace one Skill Die with Weapon Die
Rifle
Snipe- Double Range, gain 2d4 Attack and +1 damage if only firing one round
Pinpoint- Reduce Called Shot Threshold or Penalty by 1, gain 2d4 Attack or +2 damage for Ammo Spent
SMG
Spray-Fire: Drop Skill dice, target all foes in 1 Square or 2 adjacent foes
Unload: Make Max Rate equal to Ammo Cap
Melee:
Bladed
Frenzy: Use 2 actions, attack at double Skill
Deep Cut: Replace 1 Skill Die with Weapon Die if higher
Blunt
Smash Down: Reduce foe's speed by 1 on successful hit
Heavy Swing: Reduce Skill Die by 1, treat all Skill Die as Weapon Die, +1 lethality.
Agility
Nimble: +1 Pin, +1 Threshold/Penalty
Sprint: +1 Speed
Quick Step: Free Step Action
Quick Hands: Reduce Ready actions by .5
Endurance
Die Hard: +2 Lethal
Mule: +4 Kit
Armor Skin: +1 Armor
Tank: +1 Lethal, +2 Kit
I still have some Stats to cover, but I feel this is much more elegant than what I had. Also, technically now the Weapon Die replaces one of your Skill dice and you get 1 Ammo Die just for attacking. However the net result is EXACTLY the same. It just make more sense in my head that way.
>>44581213
You keep ignoring the fact that infantry are there to score points. That's their role in the game. If there were infantry-portable anti-mech weapons in the fluff, there wouldn't be any mechs, just squads of infantry where one guy has the rocket launcher/AT rifle.
>And if you do capture the trench...what do the infantry do, wait to get raped to death by enemy mechs?
Bring up the artillery. Mechs fold to artillery shells easily.
>>44580820
Stratego is a board game. I'm making Trenchbreaker as a wargame. The two have nothing in common besides the fact that they're war themed and you can keep what you take secret from your opponent. That's literally it.
I don't want advice about how to make my wargame from people who want to make board games, for the same reason that I don't want advice from a ramen house chef on how to make spaghetti. While the utter basics are the same(still has noodles/still about war where you guess what the other guy is doing) literally everything else is different. Stratego plays completely differently from what I want to make.
Playtested my game today. Very fun and very eye opening to finally actually play it. Even if it was just the very foundation of the game we tested. Can't wait to fine-tune it.
>>44591620
What did you learn from playtesting?
>>44591635
How turns really progress, how players come to their decisions, how options emerge, how certain things aren't implemented as well as they could be. There's still a lot for me to do and a long way ahead I think.
>>44591712
Neat. I'm approaching the point of playtesting myself. Gotta rig up some cardboard cutouts for the mecha and lego stand ins for the infantry.
I know I'm late to the discussion on making melee combat in skirmish games more tactical, but I'd like to see what /tg/ thinks of my combat system so far.
The basic premise is a RPS-style choice of attack or defense, ordered as such:
attack<block<power attack<dodge<feint
To declare what type of attack or defense the models make, each player places a card face down, on the back of each card is a symbol denoting offense or defense.
Before the cards are flipped both sides 'wager' an amount of d6's they wish to roll for their action, with the attacker wagering first. Next both sides flip their cards and roll, and whoever has the single highest die wins, with the next highest breaking ties. Additionally, whoever wins the card match-up gets +1 to their roll.
This is a very rough draft of what I want my combat to look like. What I really want to play up is mind games and bluffing your opponent.
>>44592060
Are you doing shooting with a similar level of detail? If not, I feel like getting into melee would slow the game down a lot.
>>44592263
With magic, yes, but with bows and crossbows, no, as I can't think of any options other than 'return fire' and 'dodge', which don't strike me as interesting.
I admit my main concern is that melee will bog the game down too much, but I'm hoping that low model count between 6 and 12 will off set that.
Also, I havn't decided how to determine damage yet, but I'm considering either a static number, ie. 1 wound, 2 wounds, etc based on weapon and stats, or somehow tie it in with the first roll. Hopefully either will streamline combat a touch.
>>44582657
"Publishing" for me generally amounts to me printing out a few extra rulebooks and putting them up for sale on ebay. I try advertising in random places here and there.
Is it bad that I don't want to post my game here for fear of it being stolen? I want honest outside feedback but I'm clearly an insecure human wreck.
>>44590767
AoS is the Snakes n' Ladders of wargaming.
I think alternating activations or LOTR system are the best. I think LOTR's would be great for a large scale game.
>but I'm afraid to implement it and watch as the game just becomes a sluggish marker simulator
That's part of why I suggested using actual distance on the board. If you just mark the units as being different distances in combat, it takes another level of abstraction further removing players from the game. I think giving the ability to move or push the enemy instead of wounding would add another level of tactics to the combat.
I'd suggest reading Dark Age if you go the multiple rolls instead of rolling off. They do a system where the attacker rolls to hit, using a success range determined by the attack skill and defense skill: You add together the attack skill of the weapon and the defense skill of the targeted model, and try to roll under with a D20. To wound is each model has an armor value, you subtract the power of the attack, and the defender tries to roll under to save. The third roll can be instead of wounds. You roll and determine what state the model is in. Similar to how Mordheim handles a model reduced to 0 wounds, come up with levels for the roll and only apply a new state if its worse than the one on it, IE. a model is lightly wounded, only further rolls of better than lightly wounded would be applied. A way to avoid issues with toughness on various models could be a system inspired by Wrath of Kings, where this tract could be individualized for each model. WoK has a system where each card has a chart that you roll against to determine the attack outcome. Could have a similar set-up.
The other thing is what kind of die are you planning to use? Personally, unless you need large pools, I'd go with D10 at the lowest. I'm not a fan of how little crunch room D6's give you, and are really only useful if you need a mass of the same result.
>>44594130
I've seen this sentiment expressed before, and it seems silly to me. I mean, I doubt too many professional game designers come here looking to steal stuff. And if someone does steal your idea, so what? Unless you plan on publishing it/making money off of it, there's no real harm done. You can still make your game, and get to see the direction someone else takes it in too.
>>44592060
I'd think about using the dice as the model's action points. For example, a model get's 6 D6 a turn, which can be spent to move or attacks. To counter, give models a pool of defense dice to use, so both sides have to think before they wager. Do you wager a lot of dice in an attack to force your opponent to use up their pool of defense for the turn, or do you wager only a few to save some for another attack later? On the flip side, do you risk being hit by an attack by a model using a large pool of dice so you can use your defense dice against another potential threat?
>>44592678
The only problem is the amount of emphasis this system would put on magic and combat. Ranged would fall to the wayside. If you want, you could always fluff it to remove ranged from the equation: The world has erratic weather, making non-magical ranged near impossible, or something.
>>44594130
Yes. Number one thing to remember when designing a game, everyone thinks their game is the next hot thing, they'll more than likely prefer their own project over yours. Even if someone likes parts of yours over their, they're more likely to pick and choose than steal the whole thing. Which is generally fine, that's where most people get their inspirations, from others. Worry about the project as a whole over the individual mechanics.
>>44594663
Its not a bad attitude to take in some markets, but this isn't one of them. So I can understand the mindset, its just learning to apply it appropriately that needs to be handled.
anybody else making a game?
i just started making mine after seeing a picture on 4chan that i will post. imagine if the purge was real but it is only effecting some areas and for 1 day murder is legal because of a fuck up by 1 mad man who had power. the only problem is that there is little area's effected by this and the one place that is fine to do it is a high school as it meets the crossroads of another area that has this law.
you play a boy who is in a school lock down and he must escape high school killers who's where either abused by people or killer teens who are trying to kill to get rid of someone who is getting to close to someone they like.
the game will look a little like yandere chan but mostly Akiba's Trip
>what you must do.
hold out until the law is removed in 24 hours
get people in the school to safety in a room that is only known to you (watch out people you bring in may be killers and if you let them in they will kill the people and leave making you have to hunt them so they don't rat your safezone)
Find and save your childhood friends and female teacher
>What you must avoid doing
Killing.....why because ("He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster.) killing in self defense is fine
bringing killers into your zone
letting people from outside help you(the door is closed and parents can't come in nor anybody else unless they wish to be shoot and sometime they may throw things this is sometimes to help there kids or to help others) if this happens throw it back or destroy it to save there life.
also if a child see's there parent die a mentality bar drops to zero and well..... here is a link of what happens http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeWhoFightsMonsters
sorry for my spelling and i hope to see you all when i finish
>>44594733
Regarding dice pools, I didn't go into them much earlier but you've got the right idea that wagered dice are a limited resource, so wagering gives your opponent an idea of your intent. That said, I havn't pinpointed what the average pool size should be yet. I'm going to have to do some rough playtesting for that I think.
I also forgot to mention that when you are on defense and win, you can then follow up with a counterattack, thus giving you the opportunity to attack, feint, etc. I was thinking the attack and defense dice would come from a shared pool, so if you are too aggressive you won't be able to protect yourself, and turtling means you can't kill your opponent.
I'm not sure I get why ranged would be ignore. Sure it's simpler, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be an effective means of dishing out damage. And there are otherways to bring variety to ranged attacks: called shots, indirect fire, covering fire/overwatch to name a few. Granted, I havn't put much thought into how ranged attacks will work yet, but I'm open to suggestions. Though outright removing bows from a fantasy game is too bizarre to me.
>>44595075
Why bother with the whole thing of the law when illegal school shootings happen all the time anyway?
>>44595088
sorry, wasn't exactly clear on my intent. Its not that ranged would be ignored, probably the opposite. It would be overshadowed. When you have a system in place that has a lot into it, and one that's simple, the simple system feels out of place, which gives a negative feel to the game.
I actually had something like that I ended up removing. I wanted certain models to have command skills to support the army, so I had an extra phase for models to do that. But they didn't feel fleshed out, the abilities were just there, and were lost in the rest of the turn (a few test games, we completely forgot about them, even). This is what I mean, it just didn't feel as fleshed out as the rest of the game, so there was no excitement for it, it was just there.
The other problem is, if its too simple compare to the other mechanics, it may end up being unbalanced. Either too powerful, since there's not that balancing effect combat or magic has; or too weak, since it may be overlooked for the previously mentioned reasons.
I'd definitely think about the called shots-indirect fire-etc. route, bring it into line with the combat and magic systems.
>>44583686
Why on earth did you put the summary on the bottom separate from the rest of the crunch, especially when it has the same bg color? All that's gonna do is make it a little harder for the reader to skip to the next move via visuals.
>>44595158
because i don't want it to be just any mass shooting. i also think if something like that was to happen the military won't stand by and shoot parents because of it. I want the military to look like monsters in the game for following orders that people in the country say fuck no too
>>44595454
It still seems like an overly convoluted explanation for a scenario that's basically happening all the time anyway.
>>44595502
At least that means it'll appeal to the anime crowds.
>>44595310
Now that you've got me thinking about it, I suppose there should be defense rolls vs ranged attacks, which would mean ranged attacks could help whittle down a model's melee potential and encourage focusing on one enemy at a time. That will definitely be a challenge to balance. Shields will probably get free bonus dice against ranged attacks, so dice won't have to be expended dodging arrows.
>>44595640 here again
I also like the idea discussed earlier about choosing between wounding and moving yourself/your opponent around as mentioned here: >>44594420
I'm thinking on a successfully dodged attack you can choose to move away, or towards if you're dodging a spear.
>>44594893
>>44594733
>>44594663
Ok, well, if anybody wanted to take the time to read my rules and give feedback it'd be greatly appreciated. It's a TTRPG/CCG that, if ever released, would have a release structure similar to Netrunner or any other FF LCG.
>>44595870
aaaannndd i forgot the rules https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kJfJ0aqP6m8OFny8XuDqZqqxQ9le41MA10tBMrNZiCI/edit?usp=sharing
>>44595870
>>44595933
There was a guy in here earlier looking to playtest card games, by the way. I'd keep an eye out for him, might be useful.
>>44581460
Makes me think of something I came up with, too. 3D10, Cost/Damage/Secondary skill effect (things like pushing the target, causing ailments, etc).
Cost would be double if the associated die was a 1, or half if 10; damage would work vice versa. Secondaries would have their own target number, and some higher level skills could have more than one effect.
Also, regardless of the attack's success, the sum of the 3 dice would be added to a "drive point" pool, that could be used for "super moves."
>>44595075
I'm making a worker placement game that takes place after the apocalypse happens and you need to rebuild society.
That said, I'd like some input on something. I want there to be a survival theme in additional to a worker placement scenario. Here's what I have so far:
>Each play may place up to 4 workers in a space.
>Players do not actually do the action until the start of the round.
>At the start of the round, survival phase happens
>At the survival phase in each space in numeric order (spaces are listed 1 to 5), each player in turn order rolls a number of D6 equal to the number of workers that player has in the space.
>That player has to roll a number equal to or less than the the number of workers that player has.
>If there is another player in that space, the amount is decreased by one.
>For each worker that got the passing number, return that worker to your playerboard.
>As long as one worker succeeded, you do the action on that space.
For example, if Red has 4 workers in space 1, and Blue and Yellow also have workers in that space. It is Red's turn to roll for his workers in space 1. Red rolls 4 dice since he has four workers there, but because that there is another present in space 1, Red needs a 3 or lower on each die for each worker (Under normal circumstances, Red would roll 4 dice.) Red rolls a 1, 3, 4, and 6, so 2 workers return to Red's playerboard. Since a worker returned to Red's playerboard, Red gets to do the action on space one. This process repeats in turn order for the rest of space 1, space 2, and so on.
>>44595075
If the intent is to simulate the experience of living through a traumatic situation that can happen in real life, there's certainly potential. There are already several RPGs that simulate real life experiences as a way to see what's it like on the other side, like a black man walking home from work, or a village being colonized. It'd need to be approached delicately, but it would certainly be an interesting experience.
If the intent is to have a "survival in a world with no laws" type of game though... I don't know, you can probably make a different premise without utilizing such a touchy subject like high school murders. For example, a building gets whisked away into another dimension and the players have to do the exact same things, except the killers are replaced by monsters or ghosts ala Corpse Party.
>>44587594
Uploaded to mega.
https://mega.nz/#!xUsyVKJD!xkH3kJT7sT5zX7WGGgDF_7Ds2hw2hHe94jaFU8cHXr0
Really need to get to summarizing the links in the OP soon, these links without context are making my butt itchy.
>>44590767
I didn't know which post to quote so I'll just use this one, but I do think that this is one problem where cards are a much better solution for resolving combat than dice. Something like, anyone who is in combat, draw cards. Then the effects are pitted against each other, maybe one card has 5 attack and 'gain +2 attack if they have higher attack than the opponent', but oh no the other card is a 'negate the other card effect if it is a red card', making the 5 attack card wasted. Just imagine each model on the field having a duel like this, all the while moving around, too engrossed in their own duels to notice the reinforcements coming right around the corner.
Have a look at Middle Earth Quest's combat system and how they handle the cards' effects. Actually, take a look at how they handle movement too, it might be relevant to how you can handle movement. An entire game could probably be done just out of choosing which cards to discard in order to move around without sacrificing potentially useful attack cards. Alternatively, you could go Mansions of Madness and split a card into two effects, one for each side, then draw cards when combat occurs, looking at the effect belonging to the side whose turn it is.
>>44591433
There are infantry portable weapons in real life and we still have tanks, you stupid fuck.
>>44597464
Rude.
I'm trying to come up with hacking rules for my cyberpunk game. If you gents could refer me to an existing game that does hacking well, or help me brainstorm, I would greatly appreciate it.
Here's a few ideas I would like to bounce off of you:
>Purposes of Hacking
1) To gather information.
2) To detect enemies.
3) To disable enemies in combat.
>Depth
Programs running have a 'depth' ranging from 'surface' to 'deep' to 'dark'.
Programs running at the shallow end are easier to detect and easier to attack, but they are also more far reaching. Programs running at the deeper end are harder to detect and attack, but their effects are also much narrower.
Team Networks typically run at the surface level.
Personal Area Networks typically run at the deep level.
Neural Networks typically run at the dark level.
>Action Points
Each character has a pool of Physical Action Points (PAP) and Mental Action Points (MAP).
PAP's are spent to do things like run, punch, and use 'Hardware' (armaments) while MAP's are spent to do things like examine in detail, aim, and use Software/Programs.
>Lag
Some programs have a 'Lag' rating. When you use a program with Lag, it raises the MAP cost of all other programs you use for the rest of your turn.
>Cyber Attacks
Cyber attacks work much like normal attacks, except that you use programs instead of weapons, are opposed by the target's security software instead of armor, and you attack do disable the target's programs instead of dealing damage.
Suggestions?
>>44597538
well he's being a salty cunt every time he gets any criticism whatsoever, so there are no saints here.
do you guys ever suddenly realize the extremely simple and obvious solution to a problem that's been keeping you stuck for weeks and feel like a complete idiot
>>44598222
Yes.
>>44596318 Here.
I'd really like some input for this. To me it doesn't seem quite right.
>>44598421
Seems too convoluted
>>44591270
So, for the purposes of game balance, I'm wondering if I should stat up Combat Magic similar to how I stat guns, but using Knowledge as the skill and supplying the source of Mana (used like ammo for spells) or if I should just have combat magic Talents that have a unique but simple effect. I know I'm only going to have combat magic either buff or cause Pinning, it won't deal damage (except to certain races) due to how magic works in the setting.
I'm also debating letting players choose Talents at every skill level, there being 4 total, and just adding 1-2 Talents per category.
>>44599281
This is really good.
So, because I'm a nostalgic weeaboo idiot, I'm thinking of making a Naruto RPG system - i've got the following design principles in mind:
•Capable of depicting events from the start of the manga to the timeskip – post-timeskip stuff will be an expansion book if it appears at all
•System should encourage battles to be affairs in which each side spends time and energy attempting to gain advantage to deliver a final blow, rather than rocket tag or HP grinding
•System should be combat-primary, with the understanding that players are warriors and assassins above all else
•System should begin gameplay with characters competent, and go up from there
•System should encourage players to focus on a specific theme, rather than being broad generalists (while still allowing generalists to be effective)
•Different weapons and jutsu should feel meaningfully distinct
•Creating your own Jutsu as a player should be relatively simple
So far, I'm thinking of a dice-pool based system for default rolls - combat would steal Exalted 3Es initiative system (one of the only good parts of that system, IMO), in which your initiative is also a measure of who has advantage over who at the moment, and it can be spent to make gambits or attempt to finish the fight. Taijutsu gives you an array of buffs for your mundane attacks and at higher levels, allows you to make multiattacks or reflexive attacks if you can set your opponents up in the right conditions. Ninjutsu and Genjutsu would be point-buy systems where you start with one of an array of basic effects, then combine multiple effects with various modifiers to create specific techniques - the substitution technique is modelled as a movement technique with the reflexive bonus, but the flaw that you need an item the same size as you nearby to activate it, and can only travel to that item.
Thoughts?
Repostin my now old system, thinking up starting work on a revised version that doesn't use multiples of a D6 to calculate things, it just wrecks game balance when you add levels into the mix, though I think I'll still use at least 2 dice for damage, maybe even D5s instead
New system is going to use D10s, but maintain the concept of having the game balance and rules based around stat blocks for humanoids, not sure when/if I'll ever get back to working on it, need to focus on other things, or at least I should be focusing on other things
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-JeQd4atb7vVkJJMlUzVTA0Um8/view?usp=sharing
>>44600241
don't make naruto create something new. trust me you don't want a lawsuit or to be called the naruto game guy
>>44600417
>Implying it would get any more legal notice than any of the other shitty naruto rpgs out there
>Implying I use my own personal info rather than throwaway accounts
That said, you have a point in that it might be worth considering making it heavily flavored after the better bits of early Naruto, rather than stick with the show proper (and have to deal with BS like jinchuuriki, the fuckin' sharingan, and all that shit).
>>44598421
So it's a roll under, but other players decrease the TN? That makes survival harder when there are other players, which seems a little weird.
Also, if I'm reading it right the action goes through as long as a single worker makes it, and extra workers just increase your chances of success.
What happens to workers that don't return? Can you get stuck with one guy on a space who needs to roll a 1 to leave?
Gentleman, I want to run a Hellgate London game, but I'm not sure what would be a good system for it. There's demons, magic, power armor, melee, guns, futuretech, and other things so I need a system that can handle all of those.
I was thinking of using the 40k RPG systems and modifying it as needed but not sure if there's a better one.
Any advice for a system to start with?
>>44600745
Workers that don't return are gone. They go back to your supply, but there are ways to get more workers. Most of them will be Wanderer cards, which can give you up to 1 to 3 workers. Just be sure to have enough food to support them.Alternatively, you can kill them for an immediate bonus.
>That makes survival harder when there are other players, which seems a little weird.
The wasteland is a dangerous place, but I'm thinking of reworking the rules a tad. If a player "discovers" another player's settlement (playerboard) then you don't have the penalty if you share a space with that player. I can understand if it's complicated, I haven't written all of the rules down. A lot of them are still in my head. Hopefully the first playtest will reveal some useful information on the matter.
>>44600906
Fuck off kike.
>>44600865
A worker placement game where workers come and go pretty fluidly seems interesting. Usually, an extra worker is a pretty big deal. (Make sure those 3 worker wanderer cards aren't too strong)
My biggest issue with your idea though is that one or two workers have pretty bad odds of ever actually doing something. Two workers are going to just ingloriously die almost half the time. Unless there are ways to improve your workers, you're always going to want to place 3 or 4.
>>44600906
>>44600940
Just 'cause it's pasta doesn't mean it isn't true.
>>44600948
There will be ways to increase the odds, so you are never truely locked out of something just because you don't have enough workers.
>>44595977
Still here, every day, though I don't really bother reading posts I miss while I'm gone, thus my slow reply. Unless I'm bored, in which case I'll accidentally spam short messages to bump the thread.
That card game, though, looks like an RPG in a card game skin, so getting my crew to playtest would be a little trickier. Someone would have to DM, and, as the forever DM, I have to really like the system, because I do soundtracks and maps and whole dossiers and it's exhausting. I'll help with card games because I don't need to GM those.
So, I don't know how many of you have played D&D 5e, but to cut a long story short:
I want to create a lush space adventure setting with a die pool mechanic, but I'm starting off using 5e mechanics since they're fairly easy to modify.
I'm going to post a visible copy of what I've been working on for the past hour because I'm a sadist and I figure any input is better than no input.
>>44600997
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-BVCXEWrpY3F_-MDyfntJwPhNe2R3mFgG7dQO-fE5Ys/edit?usp=sharing
>>44600969
The other concern is that more workers means more dice, but also a different target number. You might want to do it like Stone Age, where different spaces have their own fixed TNs.
Except with workers dying on bad rolls.
>>44600997
>/gdg/
>input
It's just vague questions and vague answers.
>>44598019
Anyone would react negatively when such a confrontational attitude is taken while giving criticism honestly.
Plus he has already given a good enough reason for infantry to exist I think.
>infantry fire artillery shells from the trenches
>mechs help get infantry to the other side
>infantry now (maybe) has better angle to fire at enemy mechs
Would make tactical decisions even better if the infantry could fire from both trenches too. Then they'd have to choose between either keeping the infantry put and have cover fire, or move them at the risk of getting overwhelmed by the enemy.
>>44597813
Probably the biggest problem with hacking systems is the lack of abstraction. Think about how quickly technology has advanced over the past 40 years. Extrapolate that to however far ahead your setting is, realizing that change is actually accelerating, and there's no particular reason for computing to look like anything we have today. The more you try to model "real" computers, the more likely you are to bog things down, break the setting under your computing paradigm, or be laughably wrong somewhere.
The second biggest general problem is the "drop out" paradox. If having something hacked is incredibly debilitating, people are just going to turn the wireless off. This restricts the actions hackers can take, which means those actions need to be more effective, which means more things are worth having the wireless turned off, etc. This is mostly a problem in combat, where hacking an opponent's X has to compete against shooting them in the face with a glock. To that end, separating hacking action costs from physical action costs is a good idea, because now they don't need to compete, but keep this in mind when deciding what hacking actions are capable of. Generally, stripping away bonuses from programs is fine, as is jamming devices that need the wireless on, but anything that would be actively debilitating if hacked will either have hacking set to "no" or won't be used at all.
Finally, the Shadowrun 4e and 5e matrix rules are probably the two most well-known and -dissected hacking systems. Dig around for threads on their pitfalls, especially on Dumpshock and on critical forums such as the Gaming Den. Ignore the vitriol; 90% of what they say is a legitimate issue.
>>44596318
I wonder if it's due to that weird mix of worker placement and randomness. Plus there's no real sense of "surviving" either. Putting the players into a confrontation might be good, have any who share a spot fight each other, and the loser is punted out completely. Alternatively, they could share the spot, but gain less instead, even less if there's more than one player.
>>44600241
Not to discourage you, but I think there's already 1 or 2 Naruto games out there, maybe try looking for them and see if you like how they play. If you don't or there aren't actually any yet, then go ahead, there's not much reason not to.
Good morning /gdg/
>>44595439
I have nothing to do with the graphic design. For this game, I only design the system and write.
However, it's really not difficult at all to differentiate between abilities. I dunno what to say, I have no problem with it visually at all.
>>44603277
PS - The negative space in the pic attached example (and throughout the book) is space for artwork. Some artwork is going into the next version.
Alright /gdg/, you have possessed me. I designed a card game last night. It's not a TCG or LCG, but more like a board game style card game like Splendor or something like that. The idea of the game is that you are an alchemist and you're working to fulfill commissions for House Kem, who has a monopoly on potions trading in the region. You are trying to obtain wealth before the other alchemists.
Here's the link to the rough draft rules: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_NNVhrFKTp81xgZwmNiwXECvGLwzSBUMVQvSd5DzY84/edit?usp=sharing
The rules in red text are maybes. My biggest concerns are with the Reagent Deck. I can't decide if 100 cards is enough, or if I have my ratios right.
>Essences are wild cards so should be pretty rare
>Commissions and Merchants pay top dollar for Explosives, so Minerals should be pretty rare
>Substances are mid-range, so more Organics than Minerals
>Medicines are the cheapest, so More Herbs than Organics
>Fluids are necessary to create any potion, so should be pretty common
The way I made the Reagent Deck last night was this...
>10 Essences
>10 Minerals
>20 Organics
>30 Herbs
>30 Fluids
What do you think? Should I change the total amount of cards? Should I change the ratio between Reagents?
(Pic is what I threw together last night)
>>44603277
The only thing I can suggest is taking the summery boxes and dropping them a shade or two, to make them pop. Its not really an ease of reading thing, more just that its a bit boring. A slight color change would break it up a bit more and make it more visually appealing.
>>44604483
I will pass that along. I think the guy that does the graphic design has mentioned getting rid of the summaries entirely, so it may not even be a concern. Thanks for the tip
>>44604525
I wouldn't go that far. They're a good tool, the main body to thoroughly explain the rules, and then a quick post for people that just need a reminder for how it works. It helps cut down time spent in the book during gameplay, when you're just looking up a reminder for what a certain ability does.
>>44600906
i know this is pasta that gets autodeleted every single time but it's true
and the fact that it gets deleted instantly every time it shows up proves it even further
>>44604627
Noone cares.
>>44603741
Giving it a quick glance, reminds me a bit of Puerto Rico, the focus on manufacture and such.
My brother-in-law is a board game collector and extremely good at those kind of games. I can see if he'd be interested at giving it a look over next time I talk to him.
>>44604948I do
>>44603741
The number of available actions seem a bit much. I think you can narrow it down somehow... Something irks me about dividing Gather, Discover, Refine, Hoard and Buyout into 5 actions, but I'm not quite sure how to go about changing it.
Discover is probably the weakest of the 5 since gambling on a single card isn't much. Maybe increase to 3 cards?
Buyout also might be too expensive, but then again, maybe not. It would have to depend on how easy it is to get coins.
I think you can combine Gather and Hoard into a single action, since it's kind of weird that an action that is about taking two cards are two different things. In exchange though, you could have drawing 1 Essence cost either 1 coin, or trade in 3 cards of the same type. Maybe separate them from the other Reagents too, would emphasize on how valuable they are.
Also, instead of having Potions be your hand, have drawn Reagents be your hand instead, and the marketplace be the default backlog of created potions. So for actions you'd have:
Reagent Collecting (the 5 actions)
Create Potion (add a potion to Shelves)
Complete Commission (spend potions on Kem)
Sell Potion (spend on merchants)
Commissions could also be number based, something like "needed 10 potions of X", then for 3 - 5 potions sold at once, get a bonus. Merchants would basically be quick cash, a way to get rid of unneeded potions, maybe make them available while they're in play, and change to a new one every 5 weeks?
Hopefully you can go far with this, looks pretty fun. In my mind it'd be a bit like Splendor + Jaipur, both solid games.
>>44605568
Replying to let you know that I appreciate the feedback. On my lunch break at work, I am playtesting with 3 coworkers with the rules as is. After that, I'll reply to your points individually and be able to include results from a playtest.
Thanks man!
>>44605048
That'd be excellent, thank you!
>>44605568
Actually, you might be able to combine Discover together with Gather and Hoard too. So to summarize the action list:
Get 2 of any Reagents, 1 of which can be unknown/from the deck
Exchange 1 coin or 3 Reagents to get an Essence
Get all available known Reagents for 5(>=?) coins
Create and add a Potion to Shelves/Market
Sell a Potion from Shelves/Market to House of Kem
Sell a Potion from Shelves/Market to Merchant
Less available actions, but the same amount of choices. Kinda. Also maybe reset the Stockpile after a player turn ends, to avoid "gonna take this card. Ooh the new one is good too, taking this" situations.
>>44603741
>>44605568
>>44605708
Initial playtest complete - 46 minutes, two players. 46 minutes is artificially high because we were obviously discussing rules and such in between turns.
Overall, way more fun than I expected for the first play through. Events and Merchants garner a lot of excitement.
>Discover is probably the weakest of the 5 since gambling on a single card isn't much. Maybe increase to 3 cards?
Discover is intended to be a last resort. Both players in the test used it at some points and it was comfortable. I'm on the fence about possibly increasing it to two cards.
>Buyout also might be too expensive, but then again, maybe not. It would have to depend on how easy it is to get coins.
Yep, Buyout was way too expensive, neither of us never even considered it. Might drop to 3 gold, or eliminate the option entirely
>I think you can combine Gather and Hoard into a single action
Well, the thing is, almost all of the Commissions require two types of potion. The reason they are separate options is to dissuade there from ever being an "obvious choice." If I could take two cards, even if they match, the default move would always be taking 2 Minerals, if not then 2 Organics, if not then 2 Herbs or Fluids. In this playtest, there was often struggle about what to choose, which is a good thing.
>Also, instead of having Potions be your hand, have drawn Reagents be your hand instead, and the marketplace be the default backlog of created potions.
I did enact an immediate rule change related to this. Basically, instead of requiring that Commissions be fulfilled using cards in your hand, you can also use potions that are in your Marketplace awaiting Merchants. This actually gave us more incentive to risk setting cards down for a shot at the Merchant buy (which is inherently more valuable).
I'm gonna make a series of posts with pictures of some of the cards (Commissions, Merchants, etc.) so you guys can get an idea of that end of the game.
>>44607461
Commissions.
>>44607461
Events.
>>44607461
Merchants.
>>44607461
>Discover is intended to be a last resort.
Ahh, I see, I went in with a 'extra option in case there is no other' mentality rather than a 'not meant to be used unless desperate' one. 1 card does seem pretty fair in that case.
>obvious choice
Looking back at the potion combinations, I agree that always taking 2 Reagents of the same type would almost always be the better choice, I assumed that there would be more potions with weirder combinations. Plus I can see how the randomization of the Stockpile could effect decisions to be not as clear cut as "take one reagent for commission A, and one for commission B".
If you ever consider using the list in >>44605708, you could remove the ability to choose 2 Reagents of the same type altogether, and thus making getting two cards of the same type be a matter of luck instead. No need to worry about it if you're already comfortable with how things are of course.
>incentive to risk setting cards down
Is the risk from letting others know what commission you're planning to take?
By the way, are weeks a single turn, or are there 7 turns in a week?
>>44608306
>Is the risk from letting others know what commission you're planning to take?
That is the only risk remaining. Before, you had to fulfill Commissions from your hand, so if you set one down, you risk the Merchant that is drawn not buying whatever you have down, and you'd have to waste a turn picking it back up to use in Commissions.
Now, when you set it down in the Marketplace, the other player may still deduce what Commission you're going for, but there's really no consequence anymore if the particular Merchant drawn doesn't want to buy it (because you can use it from the Marketplace to fulfill a commission).
>By the way, are weeks a single turn, or are there 7 turns in a week?
Sorry, I really need to pen this clearly into the rules. A week is a round, or after all players take their turns.
>>44603066
Thanks!
I can see I have my work cut out for me.
I think it helps that TacNets are going to play a huge part in combat in my game, and you really do need to turn on WiFi for those (because it's really hard to fight when you are chained to your teammates by yards of cable.)
I have played Shaowrun 4e a few times. I'll be sure to check the forums and study them closely for ideas. Thanks!
>>44605693
It might be a few days until I talk to him next, though.
Since my game will eventually focus on using cards to store info for pretty much anything you buy, I've started working on some example cards in MSE. Eventually I'll hire a graphic designer to get a fancy art deco look put together for the cards, so ignore layout, I'm just focusing on content right now.
Pictured are the three Commanders I've created so far. Still working on what Commanders will be appropriate for a nation built on religious control of the military tempered by scientific meritocracy.
>>44612808
Hopefully you playtest these thoroughly since they seem to vary in usefulness. Why percentages and not a fixed point amount?
>>44615119
Because they give bonuses to your entire force, so their points cost vary with how many points of game you're taking. Else they'd be too efficient in large games but too expensive in small games.
I'm building the game around 200 points as your standard game, so those two will usually cost 10 points each.
>>44615330
The absolute minimum would be 20 points then at 1 point each? Kind of neat how it scales. Encouraging an easy to divide by 5 points games in the rules would probably be best to avoid wonky fractions.
>>44615119
And here's Minefields.
Triggered mines detonate any time a unit(friendly or enemy) comes within 3" of them. Cable mines can be detonated at any time. Time mines detonate on the listed turn.
>>44615433
Well, theoretically, except you don't have to buy a unique commander if you don't want to.
any game with player created cards in them with events and shit
Night bump, be back to comment after sleep.
Some RPG design questions I have for you guys, opinions needed.
What are your thoughts on role-play mechanics? Either incentives, punishments, or general Framework for role-play? Or do you prefer a hands-off approach entirely? Mixed good/bad consequences, or only one kind? Etc.
I find most of the lightweight stuff in this regard is lacking for in-play inspiration.
>>44618892
I like to reward good role-play mechanically, but that's just me. In fact it's a central, if not THE central mechanic in my system, without it being a narrative system. I think I can be done, and I'm banking on the premise it can be done well.
>>44618892
Are you referring to, for example, how Fate does things?
>>44619094
Actual mechanical details?
Right now I'm looking at ripping off an older obscure system with an evolving psych profile using events/relations/opinions. It tracks more realistic social rolls rather than relying on "face" characters, complete with slight-RNG subconcious impressions beyond player control. The incentive is a penalty for some rolls with too low or high of self esteem where acting out/in 'of character' will alter said esteem. Heavy, but I've got an idea to offset the work using pregenerated random numbers.
>>44619324
Any mechanics directly related to role-play. Most systems just give a minor bonus you can use when the GM decides you earned it, and the most detail a character has are minor descriptions from character generation which never change.
>>44619453
> Any mechanics directly related to role-play.
Fate has aspects, which are descriptors (for example of your qualities). You can invoke them to help you, which costs a fate point, and compel them to hinder you or complicate matters. which grants you a fate point (the GM can compel you too).
>>44619520
So RP is presented as an optional challenge (unless the GM forces it). Not a bad option for a 'universal' system.
>>44612808
simplify and homogenize your wording. Countess Vartesi should have her card just called that, not have three names up top.
Agarson should probably say "your home edge'
>>44619453
I think it really depends on the game goal. I mainly use roleplay mechanics if I'm running a one shot and want it to be more focused on the story.
Meta-narrative mechanics in general can make it harder for players to become immersed since they require decisions from a player rather than in-character perspective.
I think of them as being good if a game is focused on creating stories rather than immersion in a world.
I love the randomization of rolled stats, but hate rolling threes. My solution to this problem is poles (similar to pendragon). What are some good stat pairings/ways to generate stat pairings? General setting is science fantasy/magitek/greasepunk, in a city on a bunch of leylines, where magic is harnessed via engineering. Wizard powered cybernetics. I'm blocked on stats currently, which is frustrating : /
>>44623628
You might want to expand on what the mechanical concept of poles is.
>>44623864
Two ends. Hypothetically you roll 3d6 x 6 for stats, against 6 poles. Physical/Magical Tough/Quick, et cetera. IDK, I'm stuck for ideas on good pairings. Being good at one means being bad at the other. It makes the 3 just as useful as the 18, with 9-12 still roughly average.
I've thought about using themes as the poles, and letting players assign, but then I'm introducing more choice complexity on character creation, which is what I'm trying to avoid with stat rolling (also non-standard builds, like my B/X cleric with 14 str 17 dex 9 wis)
>>44623995
Ok, so opposte pairings of stats. Well, Gods and Monsters, a worldbook for Fate, uses three pairs of opposite approaches. The concept of approaches is to tell HOW you do things, so this is not directly related to D&Desque stats, but might give you something to think on. The pairs are:
Bold versus Subtle
Clever versus Mighty
Wise versus Swift
(Again, these answer the question "how you do it?")
>>44587216
So I started adapting these rules into a version of Necromunda with giant robots. Would anyone be interested?
Heya guys, I'm going to be doing a lite game for some friends coming up. I'm a longterm DM, but most of my players are going to be new to the concept.
What are some of your guys favourite systems, and what do you think contributes to easy-to-understand design?
The standard D20 system works, but I've always liked roll skillD10, count successes.
So rather than throw books around and such, I'm going to try making a much lighter, flexible and likely broken silly simple thing. I'm mainly aiming for something simple so the players can focus less on the texts and more on the story and interactions.
Thinking one-page character sheets, focus on character Merits vs Flaws, a handful of attributes and write-in talents.
If you get any cool ideas, I'm doing a spaghetti Western with some silly twist like Roswell aliens.
>>44625734
I'd need to retread through it, but who doesn't love giant robots?
