Lets talk about psychic powers, /tg/.
How do you do psychic powers in your games, if at all?
What are some games that handle physchic powers well, and don't just make them basically spells?
>>44543043
>How do you do psychic powers in your games, if at all?
It's basically reflavored magic.
>What are some games that handle physchic powers well, and don't just make them basically spells?
They ALL basically make them another flavor of spell casting.
SW Force and Destiny handles them pretty well. The limit of what you can do with powers, especially with Move, is left only to your imagination. Also modular design means no two characters will have the exact same power. There's even an option to target individual body parts for maximum fun.
>>44543162
Which system is that? FFG, d6, or d20/saga? I can never keep them straight.
>>44543197
FFG.
>>44543043
AT fields aren't psychic powers, anon. They're soul magic.
>>44543043
What kind of pychic powers?
What's even the difference between magic and [renamed magic]?
>>44544612
words
>>44543162
Except you have a terrible chance to actually use them effectively.
>>44544358
>AT fields aren't psychic powers, anon. They're soul magic.
Commonly in the firm of telekenesis, which is usually under the category of "psychic power", even if it's magical in nature.
>>44544612
While not necessarily a difference between it and "magic", I always saw the difference between it, and spells, as Psychic powers are just some ability you have, while spells are specific, canned effects.
Throwing a fireball is a spell.
Being able to control flame is a psychic power.
>>44544612
Method. Psychic powers are usually thought of as being inherent abilities used intuitively while magic is usually something you learn to some degree.
It's kinda the difference between a deity's abilities and a magician's abilities.
>>44544358
>AT fields aren't psychic powers, anon. They're soul magic.
You mean SPACE SCIENCE.
>>44543043
>How do you do psychic powers in your games, if at all?
Result of extreme martial or spiritual training.
>What are some games that handle physchic powers well, and don't just make them basically spells?
Would like to know too, we're currently switching to soemthing else.
>>44543073
>They ALL basically make them another flavor of spell casting.
Difference being essentially >>44543162 this.
>>44544822
Magic is magic. "sufficiently advanced blah blah" is just a science fiction trope and quote.
>>44544848
>Magic is magic. "sufficiently advanced blah blah" is just a science fiction trope and quote.
meh, whatever.
>>44544821
>Being able to control flame is a psychic power.
Wizzards can control flame, and it will be magic, and not some psychic whatever
>>44544848
> "sufficiently advanced blah blah" is just a science fiction trope and quote.
This
It is magic, renamed to sound smart. Nothing more, nothing less.
>>44544848
No fuck you! Magic is supernatural. Psychic Powers are supernatural. Magic isn't Psychic Powers how ever. Every cat is an animal, but not every animal is a cat. Making everything supernatural Magical is one of the reasons D&D, at it's core, is shit.
>>44544822
> SPACE SCIENCE
It's literal a manifestation of the soul.
And in many games, Psychic Powers work different mechanically than standard spell casting
Fluffwise, I feel like Psychic/Psionic powers should be impermanent. A dude manifests something, and then it's gone. He shoots a fire bolt, he lifts the bolder, she reads a mind. There is an action and then it's over. Psychics don't leave lasting Psychic effects on the world unlike wizards. My only issue with D&D Psionics is Psionic items, I think they're stupid, but understand why the exist.
>>44543043
Depends on the setting, like most of fucking everything.
Typically it's just sci-fi magic.
>>44545146
And there's nothing smart or scientific about Psychic powers at all.And Wizards don't will flame to bend. He learns a spell that gets a flame to move a certain way, and this ability is not inherent to him. It's not "inherent" to the sorcerer either, the knowledge of the ritual to move the flame is what is inherent to him. To a Psychic, he just moves the flame. There's no ritual involved.
>>44545146
> Can shoot out a fireball X times a day, with a specific range, and spread
> Can manipulate flame in the environment freely, shaping and forming it into different shapes, at will.
> There is no difference between these
You can claim the difference between the "sources" when I comes to physchic vs magic is semantic, but there's a huge difference between what those abilities do. Maybe "physchic powers" wasn't the best way for it to be phrased, but he clearly meant it as a different kind of power altogether from spellcasting.
>>44543043
Psychic powers are basically magic with a different name slapped to it to make it look like it is something different.
>>44545245
>>44545247
Depends on the setting
>>44545495
I'm not an expert on the Avatar setting, but from what I understand benders don't really have rituals beyond doing shit to psyche them up/cultural stuff. Their powers aren't the product of study and research, their the product of training and personal ability. I'd say that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Benders don't act like wizards, they don't act like clerics, they act like benders.
>>44545725
>implying that it's not just a different flavor of magic
Dude, my entire fucking point is, that the term "psychic" got so overused, that it lost any meaning. Even some warlocks from Warcraft can do the same shit that psykers from Warhammer do. Hell, warlocks from WHfb can do the same shit that psykers do, and it will be considered warp magic, and not psychic powers. This word got overused so fucking hard, that it just became a way to make magic look smart and original. Mages from Gothic can do telekinesis and stuff like that, and it still going to be considered magic. I'm not saying, that magic works the same in every setting, but it is magic nonetheless, and maybe it is called differently.
>>44545180
Both magic and psychic powers are energy from nothing.
There's no reason to differentiate how that manifests. If someone chants before creating a fireball, is it magic or psychic power? Are dhalsim's illusory fireballs psychic power or magic power?
It doesn't fucking matter.
>>44545895
That's more like "magic" as a narrative device as opposed to magic as an in universe thing. You may as well call anything that can't be proved with hard science in a fictional piece "magic" then.
>>44545725
So you're saying sorcerers are actually psychic then?
>>44545971
>You may as well call anything that can't be proved with hard science in a fictional piece "magic" then.
People do, all the fucking time. It's why nobody believes in physics anymore.
>>44545957
>Both magic and psychic powers are energy from nothing.
Depends on the setting.
Magic is calling on the power of planes/sprits/gods/etc..
Psychic Power is calling on personal power/one's own energy.
Someone chanting up a fireball is magic
Dhalism's illusory fireball is psychic.
N
>>44545977
No, because they're drawing on power outside of themselves. They just don't really "get" what they're doing. A sorcerer is like a bird building a nest.
>>44543043
You might want to look into traveller:
It has a chapter on psychic powers and handles them rather well.
For the most part they work like any other skill.
It has different skills covering multiple power of varying difficulty.
Want to know if something capable of simple though is close by ? no problem.
Want to set the enemy on fire ? Rather difficult bus possible.
Want to teleport across the planet ? night impossible and will turn you into a smear stain but you can always try.
Personally i don't like psychic powers in my games but traveller does them the least awful.
>>44546012
>>44545994
Your metabolism alone only generates 100 watts. Your brain uses only 20% of that, or 20 watts.Psychic power could not keep a lightbulb lit.
You need 1300 calories a day to live, 20% of that is 260. With that you could push a cart with a 100N force for 10 meters.
You'd have to eat constantly to do anything impressive. Those guys in the avatar movie who moved a rock by themselves were actually pretty realistic.
>>44546211
They've got a magic wellspring of energy inside themselves to pull on. They aren't fueling physics tricks with their caloric intake, or do you have something to tell us?
>>44546237
That's why we keep saying psychic powers are just another form of magic, thematically speaking.
How that energy gets from the brain to the target is certainly magical, since there is no physical way for such a thing to happen.
>>44546211
I was still arguing in universe definitions.
I'll agree that Psychic powers and shit fall under the supernatural/"magic. So does technology that doesn't exist right now. But you wouldn't call Gundams and Shit "magic" because they can't exist irl. It's like saying "there's no difference between Mana and Souls, it's all magic fuely stuff".
They're kinda right and kinda wrong. In very broad strokes they're right, but if we take a magnifying class to it they're wrong. What ultimately separates magic from work to work, is presentation for what it is in the context of the work.
I just dislike it when people just dismiss it all as just "magic", because I feel like something is lost in a way. Does that make sense?
I guess I was just being autistic.
>>44546312
Gundams are magic because no material can exist with the strength needed to hold them together, much less the strength of the ground, nor could you ever have a portable power source up to the task of even moving the arms and lasting more than a few minutes at best, or that that energy use wouldn't emit enough heat to turn the whole thing cherry red.
>I just dislike it when people just dismiss it all as just "magic", because I feel like something is lost in a way. Does that make sense?
You're just going to have to learn to live with it. Most shit in fiction can never happen IRL.
>>44545180
>It's literal a manifestation of the soul.
Yes, but thats not Magic in Eva-verse. The science of the soul is called Metaphysical Biology, and by the time of the show Nerv has that shit down to, well, a science.
The can observe the soul. Detect its frequency and pattern. Move it and manipulate it between prepared vessels. Isolate specific pieces of it and then remove them from the rest of the soul like surgery. Even dub copies of one, though that has limited success compared to moving around intact souls.
Its sort of existentially terrifying what Nerv can do with souls.
>>44546351
>Its sort of existentially terrifying what Nerv can do with souls.
I guess, if you assume souls exist irl. Otherwise it's just fluff.
>>44546349
Again, you're right and your wrong.
I know that, but they're not magical(usually) in the context of the work they appear in. I'm not complaining.
>>44546374
>>44546351
It's not about personal belief, It's about context within the work. Calling something "magic" within a work of fiction is different than calling something magic outside of it.
Hence why saying Gundams are magic is both right and wrong in a way.
It's a fine distinction, but I think it's one that's important to make.
>>44546374
I mean from the perspective of someone in the setting. Obviously its not existentially terrifying to me what Nerv can do, because Nerv doesn't exist regardless of any personal beliefs I have about souls in either direction.
Imagine living in a world where it is a scientific fact that you have a soul, and people in labs play around with that shit like its playdough.
One of the secret organizations that AdEva made up is a group of scientists who discovered that Souls exist, but the afterlife does not, and their entire plan is driven by that one terrible truth. After the body dies, the soul is trapped within it for a period of hours until it slowly breaks down and falls apart, ceasing to be.
>>44546437
>Again, you're right and your wrong.
>I know that, but they're not magical(usually) in the context of the work they appear in. I'm not complaining.
The context of the setting does not change the fact that in our world such a thing would only be possible by some sort of literal wizardry.
>It's a fine distinction, but I think it's one that's important to make.
Something is either realistic or not realistic. If something is very unrealistic, we call it "magical"
If you know a better word, other than "bullshit", name it.
>>44546447
>Imagine living in a world where it is a scientific fact that you have a soul, and people in labs play around with that shit like its playdough.
Hooray now i don't have to worry about permadeath anymore?
Are you kidding? It'd be the best thing ever. There are good things and bad things about every technology.
>>44546485
>The context of the setting does not change the fact that in our world
But fiction generally isn't about our world
>>44546513
Only if there is an afterlife to go along with that soul. Otherwise its just, I dunno, a non-physical component to the brain.
I suppose there might be some kind of soul battery you could pay someone to transfer you into before you died, but lets be honest: only rich people are ever going to get one of those.
> All this semantic bullshit
Like was said here >>44545180, here
>>44545247, and probably elsewhere, while you could probably toss powers like telekenesis, or mind reading under the umbrella of "magical", that's really not the point. They function a lot differently to how most games handle spells or magic, and the thread was pretty clearly (at least, what I got from the OP), supposed to be about those types of powers, whether or not you consider them "magic" or not.
>>44546553
>I suppose there might be some kind of soul battery you could pay someone to transfer you into before you died, but lets be honest: only rich people are ever going to get one of those.
That's true of all technological achievement.
Also:
>I suppose there might be some kind of soul battery you could pay someone to transfer you into before you died
>My father's ghost watches over the house
>from that camera over there
>>44546539
Yet people use it as an example of what may be. People think mechs will be practical someday.
Psionics are based off Indian mysticism (Hindu, not Native American).
It is about discipline and training and focus of the mind, as opposed to other traditions of magic or supernatural power.
It tends to go well with martial arts for that reason. Think Tibetan monks for a prime inspiration.
And since nobody has answered the other part:
GURPS does Psionics as merits, unlike magic which uses skills and spells. So they are functionally entirely different in mechanics.
>>44546012
So do benders. They're attuned to a specific element, yes, but it isn't spontaneous creation with a HUGE perhaps toward firebenders. Lion turtles fucked with their chi so that their intent along with rote movements cause response in whatever their elemental affinity is. Benders are far closer to sorcerers than they are psychics by your definition.
Furthermore, the specific types require certain things. Firebenders require the presence of the sun, waterbenders are affected by the moon phases and its presence as well, airbenders are heavily influenced by spiritual harmony, and Earthbenders more often than not require physical contact to affect change.
>>44544783
That it may be, but we need to maintain rigid and inflexible classifications when it comes to supernatural bullshit from thousands of entirely seperate universes.
>>44543043
>How do you do psychic powers in your games, if at all?
Psychic is a naturally occurring biological ability in sufficiently advanced sapient creatures.
Magic is a universal trait in all living things regardless of sapience or mental sophistication.
Psychic is an expression of the mind and can be rather cold, heartless, stiff and uniform.
Magic is an expression of the soul and is usually very warm, emotional, expression and adaptable.
Psychic power flourishes in solitude as you become more enveloped and immersed in your own mind.
Magic power flourishes in company as the more exposed to magic you are the more immersed you become and the easier it is to do.
