Which system has the best idea for stats?
The one that feels complete but also simplistic and maybe even realistic?
Homebrews are accepted
>>44492292
>WIS 11
>wearing that shirt
>>44492292
I likenew world of darkness
>>44492292
>strength greater than 10
>woman wearing this
Kek
>>44492336
She looks vaguely fit and therefore stronger than the average neckbeard
>>44492336
>>44492376
It could be a very effective trap.
>>44492376
Average neckbeard is like 6str though, so that's not much to write home about.
>>44492292
More like
str 10
dex 11
con 10
int 11
wis 9
char 11
>>44492292
A bit off topic, but I personally feel that 4e would have been a stronger system if it'd thrown off the vestigial 6-stat system, and just collapsed them into three: Power, Finesse, and Spirit. The game would have largely functioned the same, except the fluff would have been broader, allowing for more refluff, and there wouldn't have been any sub-par defenders stuck with Str+Con as their high-stats, thus lowering their total defenses.
>>44492424
>giving intelligence an integer greater than 10 for clothes for women
Kek
>>44492376
Fat neckbeards are strong enough to carry their fat around, and have their retard strength, though.
>>44492424
You don't even know that woman.
>>44492424
She isn't an adventurer, she should hover around 7~9.
>>44492431
I don't know, maybe she has a college degree in something non retarded, int is hard to gauge at a glance.
Most commoners shouldn't have stats devianting more than 1-2 from 10, 13-14 should be best in town, 15-16 should be best in kingdom, 17-18 amongst the best in the world, more than 18 being the stuff of legends amongst the best of all time.
depends on what you are going for
DnD is for characters that'll eventually become Demigods
while series like CoC is for regular squishy humans
40k RPG is somewhat in between those
>>44492292
I like 3.5 Ability Scores. It is kinda good, for example maximum weight that you can lift from the ground based on you Str score correlates with actual deadlift results.
But my favourite stat system is From Unknown Armies (I mean madness meter and other mental stuff). It's not realistic, but it's fun to play with.
Strangely "The End of the World" series has a pretty "realistic" stats system in the sense that it's very basic yet comprehensive enough to cover the infinite complexity of categorizing elements of the individual self
Shame the games aren't that good though
>>44492292
I don't know about best, but I am very fond of AW's stat system.
The stats themselves determine what kind of outcomes your actions are likely to provoke, while highlighting allows the group to steer the session in a direction they want.
>>44492376
Str is based on your overall ability to lift, fight and carry. It's not relative to your over all body mass.
A hill gaint will typically be weaker to human on straight weight to power ratio ( just as an ant is relatively much stronger than human) but he still will be able be stronger overall.
>>44492292
Both D&D and WoD do it very well out of the box IMO.
If we're talking GURPS, then I like their system with the following changes:
1) Charisma as an ability rather than an advantage 5 points/level
2) Separate Will and Perception out at 5 pts/level each
3) IQ cost reduced to 10 pts/lvl
That leaves you with:
ST = STR
DX = DEX
HT = CON
CH = CHA
IQ = INT
PER
WILL (Which in D&D the two together make WIS)
IE I've reproduced the base D&D attributes in GURPS, with the exception of separating mental toughness from perceptiveness. D&D really does a great job here, and I think GURPS errs on the side of being too simplistic (!)
WoD separates charisma, manipulation, and appearance. Appearance isn't in D&D for the most part, except as a part of charisma. Manipulation and charisma are really two ways of accomplishing the same thing. But it makes a lot of thematic sense in the kinds of games WoD encouraes.
WoD also distinguishes between Intelligence (book smarts) and Wits (instincts and snap judgments). This is a great idea IMO.
>>44492292
Is there any other option?
>>44494194
Perhaps this
>>44492490
this
str 10-11 is an average soldier or lumberjack
dex 10-11 is an average clothier or locksmith
con 10-11 is an average farmhand or mason
int 10-11 is an average well read literate or specialized artisan
wis 10-11 is an average small parish priest or grandmother
cha 10-11 an average street performer or salesperson
an attribute of 10-11 already represents some degree of competence correspondent to a normal human adult whose profession depends on such competence
if you're DYEL your str is below 10
if you can't handle delicate objects you dex is below 10
if you're not in good shape your con is below 10
if you cannot grasp complex abstract concepts your int is below 10
if you're reckless, careless or lack foresight your wis is below 10
if you can't consistently convince people to do things your way your cha is below 10
>>44494083
Oh and best part for GURPS people who like D&D-style stats... the range of human variation is the same in GURPS as in D&D. So 10 is human average, 8 is normal but low, 6 is cripplingly low. While 12 is high normal, 14 is excellent, and 16 is heroic. With epic heroes going up to 20.
>>44494306
Now I don't know if we're talking a specific edition here, but that's flat-out false in a couple of them. I'm going to pull out some stats from example NPCs in Pathfinder's "GameMastery Guide." Let's take a look at a CR 1/2 generic "Townsperson" first:
>STR: 12
>DEX: 11
>CON: 13
>INT: 10
>WIS: 9
>CHA: 10
So already, even with an NPC without any kind of enumerated profession, they've got 10+ almost across the board. I don't know if you could expect the average Inner-Sea townsperson to "grasp complex abstract concepts" or to "consistently be able to convince people to do things their way," but there it is, in the numbers. Let's look at a few more NPCs--I'll not be copying the whole statblock, just some highlights.
Damsel in Distress (CR 1/3)
>STR: 10
Because who would abduct a DYEL princess?
Inkeeper's Child (CR 1/6)
>INT: 10
>WIS: 10
>CHA: 15!
Jesus Christ look at that Cha, this kid should be on the public-speaking circuit.
And, probably my favorite:
Pig farmer (CR 1/2)
>INT: 10
>WIS: 11
Hell, even the statblock for "Village Idiot" doesn't make sense when considering any of your examples. He is described thusly:
>The village idiot is an amiable simpleton, eking out a meager existence through charity, begging, odd jobs, or occasionally bringing down small game with his sling.
His title is literally "Idiot" and he earns a living through begging. He has no profession and no skills (other that Climb, for some reason). And his stats are as follows:
>STR: 12
>DEX: 11
>CON: 15
>INT: 4
>WIS: 9
>CHA: 10
Again, 10+ in the majority of his stats! I think it's safe to say that, even if these games sometimes straight-up tell you otherwise, the stats in practice clearly do not represent "competence correspondent to a normal human adult whose profession depends on such competence." They're just not used that way. I'd like to think that most of the Anons in this thread would have a better stat-block than Village Idiot.
My stats:
STR 18
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 20
WIS 18
CHA 20
>>44494842
But Pathfinder is retarded. We're talking AD&D and 5e here, not games based around stat bloat.
>>44495280
I wasn't aware that OP's shirt was system-specific.
>>44494842
If you can't break down a door at least 50% of the times you try to, you're already below 10.
>>44494842
Those townspeople live somewhere with a harsh climate and are just abnormaly strong on average for having to work abnormaly hard for a living their whole lives. Somewhere with a more amene climate or where less physical labor intensive ways of life were the norm those generic townsperson would all look very hardy compared to the average townsperson. They'd probably also make a great militia.
The princess has been well nourished her whole life and had self defense classes at some point. She's not a common peasant. Still she doesn't have particularly high physical stats, just average.
Kids can be ridiculously manipulative, he'll lose the charisma bonus for being a child growing up, and he's not a normal child he's the Inkeeper's Child, growing up around entertainers and adventurers. He's not a common peasant either.
Farming pigs and being average townsfolks clearly involve some complex abstracts concepts. While the average townspeople lack foresight, being a pig farmer has the added requisite of being caring and having great foresight to keep your animals alive.
The idiot of the village only survived his folly because he's abnormally hardy in a town where the average peasant is already abnormally hardy. Elsewhere in the country people would be bamboozled at the amount of punishment and the harsh conditions this fool can shrug off. Climbing through backyards has saved his life countless times, dexterity also deals with acrobatic feats and his stat reflects that, we don't know if he'd do good with delicate items as they're not entrusted to him in the first place; many a mad man become good artists or basket weavers when living in an adequate nurturing environment. Begging for a living falls perfectly under consistently convincing people to do things your way (in this case giving you free stuff) for a living.
All attributes higher than 10-11 need a decent explanation and they have it; they all have average or low attributes in everything else.
>>44492292
To answer the question: it really does depend on what level of crunch you're looking for; in general redundancies are best avoided. Not just between the Attributes themselves, but like, why have an INT and WIS score, when you've got Knowledge Skills? That's two separate mechanics covering the same principle concept.
To follow the trend
STR:10
DEX:9
CON:9
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:10
^me
>>44495516
Where are you getting that? Are you making it up, or joking or something? That's not in the text at all.
Like, you say this:
>All attributes higher than 10-11 need a decent explanation and they have it; they all have average or low attributes in everything else.
But obviously it isn't the case, at least not in the system from which I pulled those examples. That wasn't the statblock for "Abnormally Strong Townsperson," that was just "Townsperson."
I know it doesn't jive with what the Anon I'm quoting was saying. That's why I posted it. To show that.
>>44495589
I see no contradiction.
Their normal living conditions are abnormaly harsh and so they're abnormaly strong as a result, that being the norm in their community.
An abnormally strong townsperson in a town where the norm is being abnormally strong already would be someone really ridiculously strong.
>>44495814
The source of that assumption is your butt.
>>44495878
It's a game of make believe anon, if you don't like having to explain anything above flat 10 for your peasants you don't have to.
You can just roll 3d6 for all their stats, I'm sure it will be very balanced and will make much more sense.
>>44495814
>Their normal living conditions are abnormaly harsh
Except those are ordinary townsfolk everywhere, from Cheliax to Magnimar.
Am I the only person who adjusts the power level of my settings so that an 18 isn't "Super Genius Noble Prize Winner"tier
>>44496110
Why would you do that?
>>44496060
Then the living conditions of ordinary townsfolk everywhere from Cheliax to Magnimar must really suck.
>>44496222
But that's not what the setting says. That's the point. You're inventing an explanation out of whole cloth.
Just accept that PF's stat blocks are retarded.
>>44496199
I'm a 3.PF baby so a 16-18 translates to "just competent" at your job as X.
And I dislike the notion that 99.9% of people are incompetent peasants who can't do anything. Everyone in my setting has the potential to do great/horrible things that can impact the world, what sets the heroes/villains apart is that they have seized that potential.
>>44496244
If the average human adult has above average strength for a human adult then the human stats are wrong.
Humans should have +2 str and +2 con in this setting.
>>44496110
You aren't. The problem with 14str being the local strongman is that 14str is only 10% better than some random. It bugs me, since even a guy with 20str is only 25% stronger than the average guy. Most people of power (martial power) in my settings have an attack stat of 16-18, and a con no lower than 12. I believe, until the players become solidly impressive, that the Kings royal guard should be able to kick their asses, and even the captain of a city guard should be able to kill his share of raiding Orcs.
>>44496259
You're just inflating your stats.
13-15 would then be average, 10-12 below average.
To be noteworthy locally you'd need 19-21, regionally 22-24, to be widely acknowledge 25-27 and to be admitted as the stuff of legends 28+
Humans in your setting are basically demigods with +5 to all attributes, and your progression curve has about 50% more steps.
>>44496259
Ah, see, I come from 2e, where >16 is really impressive.
>>44496292
They don't need abnormally high stats for that. A couple extra levels should here, an odd prestige classes there, maybe some magic buffs and items now and then should do the trick.
>>44496412
Level's don't actually do much. And I prefer it when people aren't dependent on Magic Items just to do their fucking job.
>>44496429
It would make sense for royal guards to have adventurer classes, prestige classes and yes also magic items and buffs if those are common enough in the setting. Adventurers rely on them to do their job too. They would be amongst the best warriors in the kingdom and would have relevant stats justifiable in the 15-16 range.
>>44496470
>Adventurers rely on them to do their job too
Not in my setting, I'm using a bonus progression system. I balance encounters and such so that Magic Items are icing, not mandatory.
>>44492292
I'm working on editing 4e and have decided to combine Strength and Constitution to help make every character good out of combat (and melee users so often feel pressured to have to invest in both str and con anyway).
Plus, as another anon before me had pointed out, you can make it spell BASIC:
Brawn
Agility
Senses
Intellect
Charisma
>>44496470
>It would make sense for royal guards to have adventurer classes, prestige classes
Also just about everyone who isn't a total fuck up,retard, or starving permahobo has at least 1 level in an adventuring class.
15-16 is "regularly conditions himself via strength training". An average town guard who doesn't have at least a 16 in their "main" stat would definitely be considered a slacker in my worlds.
But my setting is an odd one out so I suppose it doesn't matter too much.
>>44496502
Sure, scrap the magic items if they're rare.
Seems like you found some other way to give that extra +1 adventurers would get every other level from magic items. It may even be possible to scrap those bonuses entirelly and still have a somewhat balanced system, although raw number of enemies would play more of a role when you're no longer untouchable due to ridiculously high magically enhanced AC.
D&D needs a Size stat
>>44496663
It has one you goob. T/S/M/L/H/G.
>>44496663
What would it measure?
>>44496758femininepenis
>>44492874
This one is actually really cool, and might alter the way my homebrew system works right now. Is there any relation between the two sides of physical/mental/social? Or, better, do you have a pdf of the system?
>>44494876
15-16 looks the best.
>>44496292
Hence why you have to benchmark against real-world capabilities first. Then you can go back and set bonuses and damage stats.
GURPS does this better than D&D but Kromm recently posted an alternative strength stat with a log progression. It works very well, though it still has some kinks. One nice thing is that the range cleanly follows the real range of human capability. IE 10 is normal, 12 is the best in town, 14 is the best most people ever meet, and 16+ is getting into legendary territory. (Just like D&D)
>>44494876
This needed to be done.
>>44500278
>meme loli
>19
Pretty shit taste you got there.
>>44500278
If that's the case you'll need urethral circumference as a stat.
>>44492424
>>44492292
>>44492336
>>44492310
You guys are so fucking stupid, the shirt is obviously a mimic.
>>44494876
your nose gets more and more 2D the better you look
>>44492376
>she looks vaguely fit
That isn't what she looks like. Not being a landwhale isn't being fit, unless you are american or something.
I've seen women bigger and leaner than her having trouble with baby weight.
